Animal Welfare (Livestock Exports) Bill

Baroness Hoey Excerpts

2nd reading
Wednesday 21st February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hoey (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I have a vivid memory of speaking at a meeting during the referendum campaign back in 2016. All sorts of speeches were made and grand ideas put forward, and then right at the end of the meeting a lady got up and said, “I don’t care about any of this. The only reason I’m voting to leave the EU is so that we can get rid of live animal exports for slaughter”—although I do not think she actually used the word “slaughter”. It was a vivid example of how people saw specific things in the referendum campaign that they knew the EU was doing that they wanted to change, and that was one.

I am disappointed in the way that the Government have taken so long to get this relatively simple Bill to come back. It is like a number of other issues on which the idea of taking back control seems to have frightened civil servants and Ministers, so it has taken a lot longer to get these things done.

I pay tribute to the noble Baroness, Lady Fookes, and the many Peers and Members of the other place who have campaigned on this issue for a long time and kept it in the public domain. I remember clearly that in 2012-13 there were lots of demonstrations in Ramsgate and Dover, when a lot of the public saw for the first time the horror of what was going on in some of those lorries, with sheep packed in them for the long journeys ahead. It is that kind of campaigning that has got us to this stage, and that is where the noble Baroness has played such a huge role.

Of course I will support the Bill but, as others have said, there are changes that could be made, and I would certainly like it to go much further. It is not acceptable, here in the House of Lords in the United Kingdom Parliament, that the Bill is not going to apply to Northern Ireland. I thank the Minister for reaching out after I had asked a question about this and having an interesting and useful meeting. I am not sure it was particularly useful in terms of changing things, but I accept that he has done his best in his role to listen to those of us who feel strongly that animal welfare should be a UK-wide matter and that ways could be found even at a late stage, in Committee, to ensure that the Bill applied to the whole country as a whole.

There is no good reason why the Bill could not have applied to Northern Ireland with an amendment clause making it clear that, when animals are exported to the Republic, a final destination must be stated when they cross over the border from Northern Ireland. The aim is to stop animals from being taken for long journeys in terrible suffering, but that will not have been achieved for the thousands of animals that will in future still be able to be transported from Northern Ireland, through the Republic and onwards into the continent of Europe and perhaps even to north Africa—much longer journeys than are happening at the moment.

As Sammy Wilson, the Member for East Antrim, said in the other place, it is a bit like Pontius Pilate; as long as the animals do not go through Great Britain, morally we can all sit back here and say, “Great, we’ve done it”, when in fact we have not changed the situation. As we all know and has been said, hardly anything has been exported over the last couple of years from Great Britain, but in all that time animals have been exported from Northern Ireland through the Republic of Ireland. It is a bit hypocritical, not from the Minister but overall from the Government, that they have tried to emphasise that Northern Ireland has been left out because of the Government’s deep concern about farmers not being able to take their cattle over the border to be fattened or to abattoirs.

On abattoirs, I absolutely agree that the ruination of small abattoirs by EU rules is also something that we should be able to act on. The £4 million sum is really very little, and that needs to be looked at.

This is not to do with protecting Northern Ireland agriculture or farmers. The truth is that, as the noble Lord, Lord Dodds, has said, as in so many other areas of legislation now—we are going to keep hearing this—European Union law overrules UK law in Northern Ireland. The Windsor Framework/protocol is making sure that Northern Ireland is once again being treated differently from the rest of the UK. There was a manifesto commitment from the Government, and yet, again, we have seen that the Government have to kowtow to European Union rules.

Another area in which it has just been confirmed we are going to have differences—again, an animal welfare issue—came after assurances from the Secretary of State that pets travelling from England, Scotland or Wales to Northern Ireland would no longer have any administrative bureaucracy. We now discover specifically that they are going to have to be treated differently, and will have to apply for pet documents.

The Government need to accept that, if they really wanted to, they could change the Bill to make it apply to the whole of Northern Ireland. The Minister did not mention the WTO, but I am sure he will say in his wind-up that we could not make special exceptions for the Republic of Ireland and the cross-border trade, which is important and needs to continue, because the WTO would rule that it was not possible under the favoured nations treaty.

However, there is an exemption in the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade of 1994, which clearly says that one of its exceptions enables states to take measures

“necessary to protect human, animal or plant life or health”.

There has been some legal opinion published which holds that Article XX, which enables states to act “to protect public morals”, is an even stronger basis for justifying trade restrictions based on animal welfare concerns. This has been used before, including in challenges in Canada, and it is set out clearly in the Explanatory Memorandum. So there is a way of doing it. It is not even as if we have to ask permission to do it. We can do it, and then if somebody wants to complain, we can take it up with the WTO if it tries to stop it.

I do not want in any way to hold this Bill up— I know that I would not be able to ever have a cup of coffee with the noble Baroness, Lady Fookes, again if that happened—but there are one or two minor but very important amendments that we could debate in Committee and that the Government could accept, if they had the will. If this is not changed, and Northern Ireland cannot be brought into it, I hope that all those noble Lords who are so supportive of the European Union and think it is wonderful, and are also desperately keen on animal welfare, might perhaps decide that it would be a good idea to lobby the European Union to get rid of its rules, which allow this terrible, horrible trade to continue, right across Europe.

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[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

My Lords, I thank all 14 noble Lords and noble Baronesses who have spoken for their thoughtful and constructive comments, and in particular those, beginning with the noble Baroness, Lady Young, who congratulated me on my appointment and my first Bill. It is a pleasure to have delivered such a happy birthday present to my noble friend Lady Fookes.

As we have heard, the Bill will end the unnecessary export of livestock and horses for slaughter and fattening, and prevent the associated stress, exhaustion and injury caused by these journeys. It signals to our international partners our firm commitment to improving welfare standards for all kept animals, reinforcing our position as global leaders on this important issue. Many animal welfare groups, as well as a number of parliamentarians, have called for this ban on live exports. We know that there is also huge public support for this measure. There is clear and broad recognition that we must end these unnecessary journeys.

Before I address a number of the specific questions, I will briefly touch on two things. The first, from the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, is the bluetongue virus, which is very current. I do not have a timeframe for when this restriction will be lifted, but I will get back to her as soon as I do. The second, from the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, is the welfare of animals during a transport delay. I will write and confirm the exact details of how they are looked after and how we address this issue.

I turn now to the questions asked by noble Lords. The noble Baronesses, Lady Young and Lady Jones, my noble friend Lady Fookes and many others queried why other species were not within the scope of the ban. I assure them that the Bill’s definition of “relevant livestock” covers all species for which there has been a significant slaughter export trade, which the Government consulted on in 2020. In the 10 years prior to EU exit, the live export trade for slaughter and fattening mainly involved sheep and unweaned calves.

Compassion in World Farming and the RSPCA, both leading campaigners on banning live exports for the past 50 years, agree that the Bill covers the relevant species to end this unnecessary trade. Responding to proposed amendments in the other place, Compassion in World Farming said that it is not aware of any alpacas, llamas or deer being exported for slaughter, and the RSPCA said that only sheep, calves and horses have been exported from Britain for slaughter over the last 10 years.

The issue of small abattoirs was raised by the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of St Edmundsbury and Ipswich, the noble Lords, Lord Carrington, Lord Trees and Lord de Clifford, the noble Baronesses, Lady Hoey, Lady Bakewell and Lady Hayman, and my noble friend Lady Hodgson, so it was a popular subject today. Many asked what further financial assistance there is for small abattoirs and what work we are doing to promote and market sheep products, particularly in order to develop our meat export trade. The farming investment fund has offered access to financial support to establish new producer-led abattoirs. Now that the first round is closed, we will assess how the scheme has performed and will investigate the potential launching of a second round later this year. The Government are working with the Agriculture and Horticulture Development Board and industry to help secure market access for world-class British red meat and dairy, empowering our exporters to maximise opportunities on the global stage.

The noble Lord, Lord Trees, queried whether Northern Ireland could be used as a loophole for transporters wanting to export livestock for slaughter and fattening. I assure him that the requirements when moving animals to Northern Ireland would make such a slaughter trade uneconomic. Livestock transported for slaughter from Great Britain to Northern Ireland must go directly to the slaughterhouse. It would be an offence to take them anywhere else. When livestock are moved for other purposes, they must be moved directly to the holding destination and remain there for at least 30 days. Failure to do so is an offence and may result in prosecution. We will also continue to monitor volumes over the next few years as this policy takes effect.

[Baroness Hoey (Non-Afl)]

The Minister rightly said that, in theory, anyway, the 30-day period stops in respect of transportation from Great Britain to Northern Ireland. But what about all the animals in Northern Ireland that will not be affected by that limit, and that will go to the Republic and down to Rosslare, and on a long journey to France and then Morocco?

[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

The noble Baroness makes a very good point. Once animals have passed into the Republic of Ireland, that is outwith the jurisdiction of the Bill. That is the current position.

I would like to address the issues eloquently described by the noble Lord, Lord Dodds, and the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, concerning Northern Ireland and the Bill. I hope they will appreciate that I am somewhat constrained in this respect. Perhaps I might write to them separately on the issues they have raised.

The noble Lord, Lord Dodds, raised the question of negotiations with the EU on veterinary medicines going into Northern Ireland. The Government are committed to seeing a long-term, sustainable solution ahead of December 2025 that will properly support the flow of veterinary medicines into Northern Ireland from Great Britain on an enduring basis. It remains our priority to find a solution, through technical talks with the EU, that removes the barriers to supply of veterinary medicines into Northern Ireland. The Government are very clear that, in all scenarios, it is imperative to safeguard the supply of veterinary medicines into Northern Ireland. If necessary, we will deploy all available flexibilities in line with our legal obligations.

The noble Lord, Lord Carrington, and the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, asked about the impact of this legislation on farmers and businesses. The current position is that we expect the ban to have minimal impact. We published an impact assessment in 2021, which can be accessed via the Bill’s Explanatory Notes. We estimated the direct cost to businesses of ending live exports to be around £5.2 million across the 10-year appraisal period, or around £500,000 per year. As there have been no exports for this purpose since 2020, the impact will have further decreased.

My noble friend Lady McIntosh, the noble Baroness, Lady Young, and the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, also asked about border control posts on the northern coast of France. EU border control posts can be operated only with the approval of the competent authority in the relevant EU member state. The majority of BCPs are privately operated, and the main barrier to date for the establishment of a BCP for livestock is the commercial viability of such a site. We have encouraged our counterparts in France to do more to support commercial efforts to construct and operate a BCP for livestock, and we continue to engage with them to try to resolve this issue.

Animal Welfare (Livestock Exports) Bill

Baroness Hoey Excerpts

Committee stage
Thursday 14th March 2024 Grand Committee

I urge my noble friend the Minister to agree to the reviews set out in Amendment 2 on the impact of the import of livestock, and to the review requested in Amendment 3 of the impact of EU trade balance between Great Britain and the EU in relation to livestock. I beg to move.

[Baroness Hoey (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I will speak to my Amendment 4 but first I thank the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, for her remarks. I very strongly support her amendment and the amendment that will be spoken to in a moment or two.

The only interest I have to declare is that I was born and reared on a small organic farm. It is so long ago that the word “organic” was not used and had not even been thought of, but it was an organic farm. I brought many little piglets into the world, being left to look after many sows in their own homes. They got out every day and had a lovely life, and I would very often accompany my favourite to the local abattoir —and it was local—so I am not speaking on this because I do not accept that animals have to be killed. In fact, I would not be here if my family had not been able to sell animals and so on, so I am very keen to see this from a real welfare point of view.

I tabled my amendment because I simply do not accept what is going to happen—we will talk about it later—with Northern Ireland being left out. That could be avoided, but if it cannot, then at the very least His Majesty’s Government need to look over a short period of time—I have said 12 months but it could be less—at the effects of the trade situation between Great Britain, Northern Ireland and the European Union. It is really important to point out that the trade at the moment, as many Members said at Second Reading, is going from Northern Ireland. Yes, of course a lot of it is staying in the Republic of Ireland, but we really have no idea just where the 17,000 pigs, 3,500 cattle and 337,000 sheep that crossed the border ended up. We now know that that will continue.

I thank the Minister, because he has engaged with me and written a very interesting letter, which I got yesterday, which explains again in great detail why Northern Ireland cannot be included. However, although the reality is that the animals that go from Great Britain to Northern Ireland will have to stay for a period of time before they can be moved on, what is happening to the animals already being moved that are in Northern Ireland and are going to go over? There is no idea whatever in Defra or DAERA, whichever is responsible, about where those animals will end up. Very often, they will end up, as the noble Baroness said, going down to the south of Ireland—a long journey—and then across to France, another long journey. Many of them will probably then go on to even worse conditions in north Africa.

I want this amendment to be put in. I genuinely cannot understand why the Minister cannot accept all three amendments. They seem perfectly sensible and perfectly common sense about how we look to the future when the Bill becomes an Act. Then we can say, “We are going to look at this and see what is happening”.

I have one final question for the Minister: how are we going to monitor this? Does he personally care about what is happening to those animals leaving Northern Ireland? How will the department monitor it, and how can we ensure that the welfare of those animals will be protected when we are washing our hands of part of the United Kingdom in this law as we put it through?

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)]

My Lords, I shall speak to my Amendment 5, which aims to support the farming community. At Second Reading, Members recorded that the NFU was not overwhelmingly in favour of the Bill. There were several reasons for this. First, there was concern about the importation of animals that were not raised to the same animal welfare standards as those which pertain in the UK. This argument has been raised many times since Brexit, particularly in relation to the various trade agreements the Government have entered into and are entering into with countries outside Europe. This is an extremely valid issue and although various Ministers have given reassurances from the Dispatch Box, they have not satisfied the farming community.

Secondly, there is the financial impact. Although I fully support the Bill’s aims, we cannot get away from the fact that the export of live animals for fattening and slaughter was a considerable part of some farmers’ income. The NFU estimates that, in 2022, the UK exported a total value of £751 million-worth of live animals. Farmers are concerned that imports of New Zealand and Australian lamb during the British peak season will reduce the domestic demand and price for their animals.

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Moved by

[Baroness Hoey]

7: Clause 7, page 5, line 17, leave out subsection (1)
Member's explanatory statement
This amendment would remove the extent provisions from the Bill to probe the implications of the current extent provisions for Northern Ireland.

[Baroness Hoey (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, Amendment 7 is the only way that the Bill Office was able to agree that I could raise some probing issues about the implications of the current extent of provision to Northern Ireland. Noble Lords will know that, in the other place, there was a move to include Northern Ireland; I was not able to put that in as it was not possible but this amendment gives us a short opportunity to discuss this. I will not be giving my normal 25 or 35-minute speech on how dreadful the Windsor Framework and the protocol are because I think that, on this occasion, most Members here who want to see the Bill go through recognise that the protocol has caused problems on things such as this. In my view, animal welfare should not be devolved; animal welfare is animal welfare wherever it is and whatever part of the United Kingdom it is in.

When the Minister responds, I know that he will say, “We would love to do this. We think it is really important that animals can move for slaughter from Northern Ireland to the Republic”. It is a very important trade for farmers in Northern Ireland, and no one wants to stop that, but we want to prevent those animals being taken any further. Everything that has been said today has been about GB to Northern Ireland or GB to the Republic, and the safeguards that this will give, but, as I said earlier, there are no safeguards whatever for animals already in Northern Ireland, where they are being moved to and the distances they will have to travel.

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[Lord Douglas-Miller (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, and others for their engagement on this Bill.

Let me first address the issue of the stepping stone from Europe to Ireland. What I would prefer to do, if I may, is take that outside of this discussion and the Bill today because it is not entirely connected. Perhaps I could come back to the noble Baroness separately on that.

I am very aware of the strength of feeling here and of the wider political issues so I shall stick to my script on this and not ad lib it, otherwise I shall get myself into terrible trouble. The Bill will prohibit the export of livestock and equines for slaughter and fattening from Great Britain to destinations outside of the UK and Crown dependencies. As the noble Baroness knows, none of the provisions affect Northern Ireland so there is no need for the Bill to extend to it; that is why the extent provisions are drafted as they are.

I understand the noble Baroness’s desire, through this probing amendment, to debate the implications of the Bill’s extent in relation to Northern Ireland. The Bill does not apply in Northern Ireland because of the vital importance of livestock movements for slaughter and fattening to the Republic of Ireland. Farmers in Northern Ireland routinely move animals in this way. The noble Baroness recognises this fact and has queried why we are not proposing a ban on exports from Northern Ireland with a targeted exemption for movements ending in the Republic of Ireland. A range of international agreements—I am waiting for a list of them—and their core principles, including World Trade Organization rules, would prevent an exemption of this kind, as the noble Baroness said.

The noble Baroness asked whether exceptions to the WTO requirements, such as that for measures to protect public morals, could apply in this case. Crucially, those exceptions cannot apply in a manner that would constitute a means of arbitrary discrimination between countries where the same conditions prevail. Any measure based on the exception must be applied in a consistent fashion to comparable trading partners. It is therefore not possible to make an exception for the Republic of Ireland on animal welfare grounds without extending the exception to other comparable countries outside the United Kingdom.

I understand the noble Baroness’ wish to explore whether the Bill could be extended further so that it applies across the United Kingdom. However, any such proposal would be either damaging to the Northern Irish economy or incompatible with our international agreements. The provisions that this amendment seeks to remove are necessary to set out the territorial extent of the Bill. I therefore respectfully ask the noble Baroness to withdraw her amendment.

[Baroness Hoey (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that. I am fond of him, and I know that he is fairly new to his position, but I have to say that I am not sure that he believes what he has been reading out on certain aspects of this. It would be very helpful to have the list of international organisations put in the Library, or perhaps in a response to me.

I know that it is not specifically related to the Bill, but I am also not terribly happy about the bluetongue issue. There is a similar aspect there, with farmers in Northern Ireland in a way being discriminated against. I think that the Minister should be able to answer on that very soon. On the issue about bluetongue and transporting from the EU direct to Northern Ireland through Great Britain—to Scotland or anywhere and then to Northern Ireland—I think probably all noble Lords would like that not to be possible. That should go into the Library as well, so that noble Lords can see it.

I will simply say that I do not think that I have learned anything particularly new in the arguments that the Government have put for this, and they have been very weak on it. I do not criticise the Minister or even his department; other forces are at work. I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment 7 withdrawn.