Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Thursday 15th January 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

I inform the House that the amendment in the name of the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas) has not been selected. I call Geraint Davies, who has 10 to 15 minutes to move the motion.

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[Mr John Spellar (Warley) (Lab)]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. Sixteen people want to speak in the debate, as well as those on the Front Benches. Those who are intervening also want to speak, and they are in danger of dropping down the list. I am trying to keep the debate tight, so I hope Members will think about their interventions. It is up to Geraint Davies whether he gives way to Mr Spellar.

[Geraint Davies]

indicated assent.

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. There will be a six-minute limit. Members should try to stick to that; otherwise it will go down.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Robin Walker]

I should just like to put on the record—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. If the hon. Gentleman is taking advantage of the Chamber’s good nature, I should say to him that to intervene immediately after making a speech is slightly unfair.

[Mr Spellar]

I note that all these publications mention a number of cases, including that of Philip Morris Australia. That case has been proceeding for some time. Can anyone tell me what is happening to it? Has it gone anywhere? Anyone can sue, but securing an outcome is very different, whether or not the case is being heard in the domestic courts. I understand that it is not classified as a trade deal, but is governed by World Trade Organisation rules. In any event, I do not think that that case and a number of others have gone anywhere.

I do not exonerate the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, which has not dealt with the matter. I raised it with the former trade Minister, and I have raised it with the current trade Minister. Various cases are cited—normally the same cases—but no one seems to come up with any explanation of what they are actually about. If they are about breach of contract, that is one thing. Regrettably, in my view, but perfectly legitimately, or lawfully, the Government are entering into long-term contracts in the probation service. If a new Government wanted to change that, there would be breach of contract proceedings, and they might well be better dealt with in domestic courts, but they also might be better dealt with through arbitration, which we have in a whole number of other areas. We have industrial relations courts and we have various arbitration systems in this country. Therefore, having the full panoply might not be right, but I do accept that there are concerns. There are concerns about whether there would be a ratchet effect. That is why it is very commendable that the EU has been undertaking consultation, and that is also why it is very welcome that there is a possible pause at the moment, because we need to be assured that, for example, changes made to the NHS would be reversible, although I have to say that—this message should be very clear between now and 7 May—the biggest threat of privatisation of the NHS is the re-election of this Conservative Government.

In many respects the effect of TTIP on this has been dealt with in letters to the hon. Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston) and my right hon. Friend the Member for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey) from the EU, spelling out the protections there.