Local Justice Area Reform

Liz Saville Roberts Excerpts

Tuesday 15th July 2025 Commons Chamber

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

From March to June this year, the Ministry of Justice held a public consultation on proposed reform of local justice areas. The consultation sought responses on a range of proposed structural changes set to affect magistrates across England and Wales. Among those proposed changes is the merging of three magistrates benches into a single north Wales bench to serve six local authorities covering an area totalling 2,383 square miles. As the Member of Parliament for a significant portion of the north-west Wales magistrates bench area, this plan is of particular concern to me, and I am grateful for the opportunity to debate it today.

The local justice system in the north of Wales currently comprises three magistrates benches—north-east Wales, which serves Wrexham and Sir y Fflint; north-central Wales, representing Conwy and Sir Ddinbych; and north-west Wales, covering Gwynedd and Ynys Môn. The north-west Wales bench is based at the Caernarfon justice centre in the largest town in my constituency. Magistrates are familiar with this court, and with making the journey to that location to undertake their duties. Under Ministry of Justice plans, however, magistrates will be expected to sit at other courts outside their so-called home court between 20% and 40% of their time.

In some areas and in more urban constituencies, that may not result in significantly increased journey times and distances, but that will indubitably not be the case for individuals in the north-west of Wales. For example, if a magistrate lives in Pen Llŷn, a journey to the Caernarfon magistrates court would incur a drive of about 40 minutes. If the same magistrate is called to the next nearest court in Llandudno as part of the 20% to 40% requirement, their journey time would nearly double to an hour and 15 minutes, and if they were called to the north-eastern courts in Mold or Wrexham, the journey times would be one hour and 40 minutes or two hours, respectively—and I must say that that is on a good day.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I commend the right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd—I hope that is somewhere near the Welsh, but with an Ulster Scots accent—for bringing forward this debate and I congratulate her on it. I spoke to her beforehand just to ascertain the direction of travel. Does she agree that magistrates must know their communities and the characteristics of where they come from, so that they can best serve justice for the victims? In other words, the better they know where they come from, the better they know the people they serve, and then they can do their job.

[Liz Saville Roberts]

I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. Of course, this is what we talk about: the nature of justice serving those communities. It needs to know the people within those communities and to reflect their characteristics to best serve the victims, defendants, advocates and witnesses in the process by which justice is seen to be done.

The longer journeys I mentioned will inevitably create difficulties. We must remember that magistrates in this instance are volunteers. Many have other responsibilities, such as childcare and the care of elderly relatives. Some will also be in work—in other employment. It is foreseen that the changes are very likely to result in resignations, so my first question is this: has an impact assessment been made of the potential loss of experienced magistrates, the need to recruit and train new magistrates, and whether certain groups of people will be worse affected by changes in travelling time?

Cost is another factor. If an individual magistrate currently sits only in Caernarfon court, but is now directed to spend a minimum requirement of 20% at Llandudno, the annual travel expenses claim are likely to double. If they were allocated, as is theoretically possible, 40% of their time in the Mold-Yr Wyddgrug court, their annual travel claim would be likely to increase by 600%. Will the Minister confirm whether an assessment has been carried out into those substantially increased costs and the effect on value for public money?

I want to turn now to the impact on Welsh language services. While the present three local justice areas are easily grouped under the title of north Wales, it must be recognised that the communities they serve are not uniform. Indeed, the differences are most apparent in their use of Welsh. The Act of Union 1536 decreed that only English could be used in courts in Wales. That was repealed by the Welsh Courts Act 1942, the first piece of legislation to recognise the right to use the language. Of course, legislation has moved on considerably since then.

The north-west Wales bench serves the two local authority areas with the highest estimated percentage of Welsh speakers, Gwynedd and Ynys Môn, where the Welsh language is in daily use as a community, family and administrative language. The magistrates court will routinely hear defendants, victims, witnesses and advocates drawn from those communities and from the town of Caernarfon itself, where 85% of the population speak Welsh. That is just not true for the other two areas in the proposed grouping. That is made clear in the percentage of Welsh-speaking magistrates across the current local justice areas at present: 55% speak Welsh in the north-west Wales area, 16% in the central north area and only 8% in the north-east. We must remember that the purpose of local justice is exactly that: for members of a particular community to administer justice in and on behalf of that community. That means, of course, reflecting that local community.

For the north-west Wales bench, this has resulted in the Caernarfon magistrates court routinely operating in Welsh. Indeed, the Caernarfon justice centre is the home of His Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals Service’s Welsh language unit. There is considerable concern that the hard-fought-for offer of a bilingual service in English and Welsh for all court users will be ill-served by the UK Government’s proposals and that prospective Welsh-speaking magistrates will think twice before applying for roles, thus further reducing the number of Welsh-speaking magistrates serving communities across the whole of north Wales.

That issue was immediately raised by senior magistrates on the north-west Wales bench. They asked why a full assessment had not been made of the impact of the recommendations on the use of the language and the availability of Welsh language services. An addition was then made, I understand, to the equalities statement, outlining a potential impact on magistrates’ use of the Welsh language, phrased as “protected characteristics”. But framing an assessment in that way fails to consider the potential impacts on the rights of victims, witnesses, defendants and service users, and fails to engage with the duties enshrined in the Welsh Language Act 1993.

I am grateful to understand from the Minister, in her response to my letter on this subject, that she is “mindful of commitments” under the MOJ’s Welsh language scheme, noting that this includes responsibilities to

“assess the linguistic consequences of policies affecting services provided to the people in Wales”

and

“to undertake a Welsh Language Impact Test during consultation”.

While we wait to see how those responsibilities play out, it is clear that magistrates in the north-west of Wales do not agree that an adequate assessment of the cultural and linguistic impact of these changes has yet been undertaken. In fact, magistrates have gone so far as to tell me that they believe the MOJ has treated Wales and the people of Wales with contempt.

They are not alone in their concerns, as the Welsh Language Commissioner has made clear. After receiving initial correspondence from the MOJ, the Welsh Language Commissioner’s office told magistrates that

“the information and response provided raises more questions about how the Welsh language was considered within the consultation, especially the alleged failure to consider the implications of moving Welsh Magistrates from Caernarfon to other courts across…Wales”—

that is a translation. The commissioner’s correspondence adds that they doubt whether the impact of the proposals on court users has been identified, particularly for those currently served by the north-west Wales bench. I am aware that the Welsh Language Commissioner has contacted the Minister in relation to their concerns, and I call on the Minister today to respond in full to the commissioner as soon as is practicable.

In her response to my letter, the Minister noted that the MOJ produced a

“full translation of the consultation document considering its relevance to Welsh magistrates, court staff and court users.”

The translation of such documents by public bodies is, in all honesty, the bare minimum—it is actually a requirement under Welsh language standards—and, in all honesty, that is not the point here. It is concerning that so little attention has been given to the effects of UK Government reform on the Welsh language, especially given the Labour Welsh Government’s goal of 1 million Welsh speakers by 2050.

Of course, this is not new. As a result of the closure of rural courts by the previous Conservative Government since 2010, the proportion of bilingual magistrates—who of course are able to work in Welsh and English; it is always worth spelling that out—serving Gwynedd and Môn has fallen from around 80% to just over 50%; as I mentioned earlier, it is at 55%. There are serious concerns that this reform in the north of Wales will further diminish the percentage and number of magistrates who will routinely be able to offer a service in both Welsh and English, restricting what is the right in law as regards language for court users.

It begs the question of how effective justice can be if a person is denied the right to justice in the language in which they express themselves best—the way they express their emotions and feelings. Of course, it is not only that; this language is one of the two official languages of the country. In the case of Caernarfon, and very much in the case of the greater part of Gwynedd and Môn, this is the first language of the majority of people.

My third question to the Minister is: when will there be a proper assessment into the impact of the use of Welsh in court under the proposed changes? After all, let us remember that when Dic Penderyn was sentenced to death in 1831 for his part in the Merthyr rising, he was tried in English, but he said from the scaffold, “O Arglwydd, dyma gamwedd,” or, “Oh Lord, this is injustice.”

The proposals follow what has already been considerable reform in the field of local justice. Local justice areas were last reorganised as recently as 2016. As I have mentioned, numerous courts across Wales have been closed since 2010, including those in Pwllheli, Llangefni, Dolgellau and Holyhead, with the operations centralised in Caernarfon. Magistrates have endured more than a decade of continuous change. Let us remember who they are: volunteers who dedicate their time to help provide justice in their local communities—that is why they have come forward. North-west Wales magistrates tell me that they are regularly praised for their performance. They say they have not been provided with any evidence as to why the proposed changes to merge benches in the north of Wales are necessary.

I suspect the MOJ may be considering following the model of North Wales Police, which is a regional police force. However, I hasten to point out that the force area operates community policing across three sub-regions—western, central and eastern—which reflect exactly the three benches as things stand in north Wales. The Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board also serves the north Wales region in its entirety, but the pressure placed on it in endeavouring to meet the needs of its widely varying communities is recognised as contributing in part to its being in and out of special measures in seven of the past 10 years.

I have a couple more questions. Will the Minister therefore commit to ensuring that the local justice reform proposals will recognise that justice is best served by magistrates rooted in their communities, and, uniquely to Wales, able to work in both national languages? Will she also commit to redoubling efforts to recruit bilingual magistrates across Wales, so that benches can be fully representative of the communities they serve?

To conclude, the Minister told me last week that one of the geniuses of the magistrates court is the local link, and the fact that it delivers local justice. I agree with her entirely, which is why I secured this debate. I close by urging the Minister and her Department to consider the points that I have raised on behalf of magistrates in north-west Wales, and ask her please to respond to the questions that I have posed during this speech. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Sarah Sackman)]

Let me begin by congratulating the right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Liz Saville Roberts) —that was my best attempt at Welsh pronunciation; I hope I did not vandalise it—on securing this important debate on the reform of local justice areas. I agree with her that the contribution of magistrates right across the country, but in particular in north Wales, deserves greater recognition. In particular, the north Welsh magistracy is performing well, and I pay tribute to all those who make that possible.

This debate is a timely opportunity to clarify the Government’s intentions to reflect on our recent consultation and to address the concerns raised, particularly those from Wales. I shall begin by setting out some context surrounding the local justice areas and the case for reform. Local justice areas were first introduced by the previous Labour Government as part of the Courts Act 2003. They replaced petty sessional divisions and were designed to define the geographical boundaries for magistrates court administration.

However, the landscape of justice delivery has changed significantly over the past 20 years or so. The hard legal boundaries of local justice areas create inflexibilities in the magistrates court system, leading to delays and inefficiencies. By abolishing local justice areas and implementing a non-legislative replacement structure, we aim to improve flexibility in the system, reduce bureaucracy and allow for more freedom in the deployment of magistrates.

As the House will be aware, the Government and the judiciary launched a joint consultation earlier this year on what the replacement system for local justice areas should look like. I want to be absolutely clear that that consultation was informed by two key principles: first, a commitment to local justice, of which the right hon. Member speaks; and secondly, a commitment to enhance flexibility for a modern magistracy. I am pleased to announce that we have received more than 1,400 responses from magistrates and a range of stakeholders, including legal professionals, local authorities and members of the public. I was encouraged to see the strong level of engagement with the proposals, and the feedback that we have received will shape the final outcome of the consultation.

I want to stress that we are carefully considering all the responses before moving forward—we do not approach this with a closed mind. This is genuine consultation and the feedback that we have received through it will be vital in shaping the reforms.

Although local justice areas as they are now—a legal administrative boundary set out in legislation—will be abolished, this does not mean an end to local justice. Localism is at the heart of the magistracy. We want to ensure that magistrates continue to feel connected to their local communities, and that local citizens continue to feel that their local magistrates serve them.

At the core of our principles is a new system of so-called benches, a structure of court groups that will be used for the purposes of magistrates’ recruitment, deployment, leadership and training, following the abolition of local justice areas. Unlike local justice areas, benches would not be defined in legislation and would have soft boundaries to allow magistrates greater flexibility to sit in other courts. Such courts might actually be closer to where they currently live, but not accessible due to the current hard, legal boundary, and they might offer magistrates a broader range of cases and work than they currently engage in.

Our consultation proposes to align benches broadly with the boundaries of criminal justice areas, which themselves are based on the boundaries of police force areas. As the core business of the criminal magistrates courts involves prosecutions initiated by police forces, we believe that, in most cases, this is a natural fit. Where a given criminal justice area will be too large to create a workable bench—

[Liz Saville Roberts]

I am very interested to hear the Minister mention police forces, because I suspected that that was partly the driver. On community policing, will she recognise that North Wales police have felt the need to separate the area into three—a highly populous area in the east, a middle area, and one in the west, which has a much more scattered population—because that better reflects what the community needs?

[Sarah Sackman]

That is precisely why we have a consultation—to reflect the variation in different parts of the country. In most cases, the criminal justice area and the area in which a police force operates will be a natural fit for a bench, but that will not necessarily work for everyone. We are taking soundings and engaging with local stakeholders to make sure that these soft boundaries, as it were, reflect local circumstances. As I said, this is such a vital debate, and we hope to reflect local contributions in the final set of proposals.

Where a given criminal justice area would be too large to create a workable bench, we have suggested a different model that retains current local justice area boundaries. For example, creating a bench based on the very large geographical area of the Dyfed-Powys criminal justice area in Wales would be impractical. Analysis suggested that it would result in excessively long journey times for certain magistrates—a point that the right hon. Member made. We therefore propose retaining the current local justice area boundaries in that case. On the other hand, where analysis suggested that a criminal justice area could reasonably be used to structure the boundaries of a bench, we have proposed—it is only a proposal, on which we are consulting—merging certain local justice areas. That is the provenance of the benches for north Wales and south Wales.

To reiterate, the point of the consultation is to seek feedback on the proposed model, and gather feedback from magistrates and other stakeholders, such as local leaders, about what will or will not work. The proposed bench configuration is intended as a starting point for this exercise. We are, if I can put it this way, very much in listening mode.

I am aware that magistrates in some benches, including those within the constituency of the right hon. Member, have raised concerns about the proposals, and as ever, she is articulate in setting out the concerns of her constituents and the local considerations. I very much appreciate that she wrote to me in advance of today’s Adjournment debate outlining those concerns, so that we could take them on board in the Ministry of Justice.

I would like to reassure the right hon. Member that her concerns and the concerns of Welsh magistrates have been and will be heard. While I cannot at this juncture confirm the outcome of the consultation—and some of the matters it covers are for the judiciary to determine, not politicians—these concerns and others expressed in the response to our consultation will inform our decisions on the structure for Welsh magistrates courts.

I turn to the question of Welsh language impacts, which are incredibly important in this context. As the right hon. Member has said, a key concern for Welsh-speaking magistrates is the impact of the proposals on the Welsh language. This concern has also been articulated by other members of the Welsh judiciary. At the heart of it is the potential risk that differences in the percentage of Welsh-speaking magistrates in the proposed bench could limit opportunities for Welsh-speaking magistrates or court users to speak Welsh. Let me take this opportunity to assure the House that this Government remain firmly committed to the principle of bilingual provision of court services in Wales, and to the equal treatment of Welsh and English in the delivery of justice in these courts.

Under the proposals, all magistrates would have the chance to discuss their sitting arrangements with their bench chair. Magistrate’s sitting patterns would be decided on a case-by-case basis, taking account of personal circumstances as well as business need. A Welsh-speaking magistrate’s preferences would naturally form part of these discussions. It is certainly not our intention to force Welsh-speaking magistrates to sit in other locations to the extent that it would limit their ability to use Welsh in court.

More broadly, the proposals are intended as a codification of current practice. Magistrates are expected to undertake most of their sittings at the court closest to their home or work location. The overall intention is to minimise as far as possible the extent of practical change to the day-to-day business of magistrates in their local area. Given the continuity in sitting patterns, and the continued provision of interpreters in Welsh magistrates courts, we do not expect the proposals to impact the availability of Welsh language services for court users in Wales. To answer the right hon. Member’s question directly, and to reassure her, a full Welsh language impact assessment will accompany any final proposals.

We will carefully consider the responses we have received from Welsh magistrates and other stakeholders to see what the impact will be on Welsh being spoken in court, and will put in place any mitigations, should they be necessary. We have committed to publishing a full Welsh language impact test alongside the final set of policy decisions, and we expect to publish our response later this year.

I am aware of the issue of the effect that the proposed bench configuration for Wales will have on travel times for magistrates and court users, and concerns about increased journey times and added difficulties for those who, for example, rely on public transport. That concern has also been expressed in some responses to proposals in England; it cuts across the board. We are keen to draw on magistrates’ first-hand knowledge of their local area before finalising any of these boundaries. The ongoing analysis of consultation responses will help us to identify those areas—such as in Wales—where a proposed bench would be excessively large or result in unreasonably long journey times. As the right hon. Member rightly acknowledged, magistrates volunteer and do a fantastic service. We do not want to put barriers in their way; this is about enabling them to carry out their service and be deployed flexibly. It is certainly not intended to impede the vital work that they do.

As for court users, the consultation does not propose any changes to case listing practices. The abolition of local justice areas will, however, make it easier to hear a case in a court closer to a user’s home. We would not therefore expect the new bench or deployment models to result in longer journeys for users. We are nevertheless continually reviewing any potential impacts of the proposals on protected characteristics. Should the data gathered from the consultation responses uncover any previously unforeseen impacts, we will consider revising the proposals to mitigate those.

I thank the right hon. Member once again for raising this issue with her characteristic eloquence and attention to detail. I also thank those who took part in the consultation process and engaged with the proposals. We received 1,400 responses, which is testament to just how much people are engaged on these issues and how much they value the local justice that our magistrates provide. As with any consultation, the dialogue and feedback we have received will be crucial in driving positive outcomes, and I am grateful to all those who have contributed. We are in listening mode, as I said, and we are committed to creating a system that works better for magistrates, court staff and citizens right across England and Wales.

Question put and agreed to.