Defence and Security Public Contracts (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Lord Adonis Excerpts

Monday 4th February 2019 Grand Committee

I note the references to Gibraltar, which is clearly of significance to our Armed Forces. I have a wider question: how do the Government envisage ensuring that the duty owed to economic operators in Gibraltar can be met in the absence of a deal? There is discussion of this in the Explanatory Memorandum, but there is very little to say how it would be seen in practice. As with the previous SI, what about state aid? Do Her Majesty’s Government envisage giving subsidies to the defence industry? Is that one of the expectations of Brexit? What are we to understand by that aspect of the Explanatory Memorandum when talking about state aid?

[Lord Adonis (Lab)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness has asked a number of pertinent questions. I hesitate to intervene in this area, because this is the first time I have ever made any remarks in the House on defence issues. I have always regarded the defence of the realm as so capably safeguarded by other noble Lords, not least the noble Earl himself—and, indeed, his family historically—that I never thought I needed to intervene in such affairs. I have two questions, which will reveal my ignorance but seem to be important in the context of us leaving the European Union in a no-deal scenario. The noble Earl said that once we have left in a no-deal scenario, we will allow bids in the defence sector from inside the EU on the same basis as we currently allow them from outside it. What is that basis? Is it codified? Looking at it from a great distance, I have always thought that we are extremely selective in the countries and suppliers outside the EU from which we are prepared to entertain bids for defence contracts. For example, I do not believe that at the moment we entertain bids from Chinese companies—and some other countries—for extremely good reasons. What is the noble Earl saying? Is there a document to which he can point me, and those who will be reading these proceedings, showing the basis for bids being entertained? The noble Earl may correct me, but if the basis on which we allow bids from outside the EU at the moment is essentially arbitrary, will that be the same basis on which we allow bids from existing EU states after Brexit?

I know that the noble Earl was simply reading his brief, but in his positive-sounding remarks at the outset he said that there would be real opportunities in procurement from leaving the EU, which I took to mean also in a no-deal scenario. It is not immediately obvious what those real opportunities are. Will he tell the Grand Committee something about them, as there are many disadvantages in leaving the EU? Readers of our proceedings will be delighted to know that there are some opportunities and would be grateful for any optimism that the noble Earl can provide for the world after 29 March if we leave without a deal.

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[Lord Adonis]

If the noble Earl will forgive me, I think I follow what he is saying, but I invite him to say whether I have understood him correctly. Because we will no longer be part of the EU procurement regime, we will have no statutory obligation to make these contracts available to bidders from the EU, but we intend to continue to invite applications from those countries. Is he saying that, in practice, for suppliers from the EU—leaving aside those from outside the EU about which we have security concerns—there will be no change in the bidding regime as a result of a no-deal Brexit? If that is not correct, and there will be a change, could he tell the Grand Committee what that change would be?

[Earl Howe]

For UK Government defence procurements, the process from the point of view of an EU supplier will be no different. What it will experience is the need to bear in mind two separate portals or bidding channels; one is the UK e-notification system, which I mentioned earlier, and the other is OJEU. It will need to keep an eye on both if it wishes to participate in the Europe-wide market; in using that phrase, I include the UK as still being a European country, even if not a member of the EU.

[Earl Howe]

That is technically right. It is our policy to maintain access for EU member states—and indeed, non-EU states—in many, if not most, instances of procurement. A good example might be the fleet solid support ships. We invited tenders from all over the world to build those ships and that should provide the best value for money. We all hope that UK suppliers will feel confident in bidding for that contract, but we wish to benefit the taxpayer as well as the Royal Navy and the process will be an open one.

To answer one point which the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, alluded to, there will of course be opportunities to reform the defence procurement rules after we leave the EU. The current rules are generally seen as out of date, compared to the PCR 2015. We have the opportunity to take a fresh look at what is needed for defence procurement—

[Lord Adonis]

What is the PCR?

[Earl Howe]

They are the Public Contracts Regulations 2015. This will involve public consultation to ensure that we strike the best balance between value for money and protecting national security. However, I emphasise that that is a long-term project and does not relate to the regulations before us today.

The noble Baroness, Lady Smith, asked about exit day in the event of a deal. As with the non-defence procurement that we debated earlier, any amendment to exit day as a result of a deal will track through from the EU withdrawal Act to these regulations. Therefore, the no-deal element of the amendments will not come into force.

I hope I have explained clearly the effect of Article 346 and why we have replicated it in the regulations but, just to make doubly clear, it is to ensure we can continue to disapply the procurement rules when required to protect our national security interests. For example, if we did not do so we would be required to advertise our sensitive procurements as a matter of domestic law. In so far as I have not answered noble Lords’ questions I will certainly do so in writing, as for the previous debate, but I hope that my responses have clarified any points of uncertainty.