Public Bodies Bill [HL]

Lord Beecham Excerpts

Tuesday 9th November 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Beecham]

My Lords, it seems to me that the Government are approaching the Bill in the spirit of Alice in Wonderland. I do not mean to imply that they are emulating the mad hatter’s tea party, although it is possible to discern occasional current Tea Party tendencies on the government Benches. I am reminded of the trial scene in Alice, where the cards cried, “Sentence first—verdict afterwards”. No doubt if the Minister had been at Lewis Carroll’s elbow, we would have had the trial last of all because that is really the way in which the Government have proceeded. They have decided on abolition first. They are looking at the cost of abolition and the estimates of savings afterwards and they will consider functions last of all.

I have the greatest respect and, indeed, affection for the noble Baroness, Lady Hanham—she is not in her place today—partly because she comes from the north-east, having been born and bred in South Shields, and partly because she was a very good colleague in the Association of Metropolitan Authorities and the Local Government Association. However, I have had a surreal exchange with the noble Baroness on some of the issues raised in the Bill in the form of Written Questions and what purported to be answers to those Questions. I asked particularly about the costs of abolition of the Audit Commission and of government offices, which are not quangos but part of government. Nevertheless, the same sort of process—if it can be called a process—seems to have been applied. I asked what the Government’s estimates were of abolishing the Audit Commission. I received a reply from the Minister that “a range of options” was being considered, that this would necessarily take time and that the process was continuing. I was given to understand, however, that actual estimates had been provided to the Government by the commission itself. I asked in a subsequent Question,

“what estimates of the costs of abolishing the Audit Commission were supplied by its chief executive … when they were received”,

and whether the Government intended to publish those costs. The reply referred again to the ongoing work of estimating the costs. It acknowledged that the chief executive of the commission had in August, and again in October,

“provided my department with information on certain of the commission's potential liabilities”.—[Official Report, 2/11/10; cols. WA 378-79.]

Curiously, the Answer did not identify the figures that had been supplied, despite the fact that the Question explicitly sought that information.

Similarly, in relation to government offices, there was again an indication that,

“broad estimates of closure costs”,

had been reached in the spending review process. The Answer continued that there were,

“no detailed costs related to Government Office North East”,

in which I have a particular interest. More relevantly perhaps, it stated:

“Departments have been considering which functions need to continue … but no department has made a decision on continuing functions”.—[Official Report, 2/11/10; col. WA 386.]

No one in this House disagrees that reform is necessary, but this is a curious way of reforming bodies of that kind.

I have in my time had some issues with the Audit Commission. I recall a chairman of the Audit Commission ringing me up and complaining in very strident terms about the attitude of the Local Government Association on one occasion. Nevertheless, it seems to me that the commission has a significant role. It is not included in the Bill, of course, but we expect to see it included in the decentralisation Bill which will presumably come to this House fairly soon; it is a manifestation of the Secretary of State’s particular animus against the Audit Commission that perhaps he wants to be sure to claim paternity of its abolition in his own Bill. However, there is actually a serious question about the role that has to be carried out; it is not a question of just auditing councils’ books and costs. The Audit Commission has a wider role; it performs an invaluable service in looking at services across a range of functions, including health. It is particularly relevant at a time when Total Place, or community budgeting as it is now being called, is coming into being—that there should be a body independent of the service providers not only looking at individual areas of what is happening across the range of services, but doing so in such a way that you can draw comparisons from one area to another and evaluate how policy is being developed and implemented across the country. That is unlikely to happen and it certainly does not seem to have been identified as an issue thus far.

Among the wide range of other bodies that have been identified, some of which have been touched on, I want to refer particularly to the regional development agencies. In the 1980s, as leader of Newcastle City Council, I worked with other local authorities, local and national politicians from all three main parties, and both sides of industry—private sector and trade unions—and we formed the Northern Development Company, which was the forerunner of what became the statutory regional development agency. It made a significant but limited contribution, because it had little in the way of resources. Now the RDAs are to be abolished—all of them—despite the fact that, certainly in the north-east and I think in other areas, there is a strong view from the private sector, as much as anyone else, that these bodies should be continued. Incidentally, in the north-east there is already a significant impact on tourism, which was the subject of a Question and helpful answers from the Minister this afternoon. However, the agency will go and it is already clear that there is a significant impact. What we will be left with in the region is a local enterprise partnership, which will have no resources and be powerless and penniless, as my noble friend Lord Liddle, pointed out. There will be more than one such body in the region, probably competing with one another; that is hardly conducive to the kind of regeneration that one would like to see, but which is unlikely to be achieved with the rather pitiful allocation of £1.4 billion over the next few years.

There are therefore serious questions about the implications of what is being done, not least in terms of the two key principles which many of your Lordships have referred to—accountability and independence. It does not seem to follow, even if functions are transferred to charities or other organisations of that kind, that accountability is necessarily thereby enhanced. That certainly does not follow if those functions are left with departments and civil servants. Of course, if the proposals of the Secretary of State go through, a vast body will be created to administer a very significant part of the National Health Service nationally—a super-quango, if ever there were one.

Some charities may be tempted by the prospect of obtaining resources alongside new functions. Like many of your Lordships, I have received a briefing from the national Citizens Advice. I join a previous speaker in expressing some doubt as to whether that organisation, which does enormously valuable work on the ground locally—I was once involved in forming a CAB and at other times acted as an adviser—is the right one to take on the serious and major issues of consumer protection and advice across the whole piece. That matter will no doubt be developed.

There is clearly a case for periodically and thoroughly reviewing the role of organisations of this kind. We do not need to join the late Screaming Lord Sutch, who inquired, “Why is there only one Monopolies Commission?”. We do not have to encourage the continuation of unnecessary bodies, but there is the constitutional point which many noble Lords have raised with considerable eloquence and force. That relates to the use of Henry VIII powers. I was never sure whether the relevant analogy was his recourse to decapitation instead of marriage guidance, or whether, as my noble friend Lady Hayter said, it was the dissolution of the monasteries. Neither is a suitable precedent for making the changes that the Bill seeks. I hope that the Government will think very carefully indeed about the way they are proceeding. I hope that they will accept the amendment of my noble friend Lord Hunt in the spirit in which it will be moved, so that we can have a practical discussion of how best to improve the situation on the basis of a proper discussion and consultation with those affected, with a view, above all, to preserving those essential elements of independence and accountability without which the system cannot serve the nation.