Tobacco and Vapes Bill

Lord Jackson of Peterborough Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 11th November 2025 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Lord Jackson of Peterborough]

114A: After Clause 48, insert the following new Clause—
“Consultation and review of the generational sales ban for tobacco products(1) Before making regulations under this Part the Secretary of State must consult—(a) the retailers of a relevant product or representatives of the manufacturers of a relevant product;(b) the manufacturers of a relevant product or representatives of the manufacturers of a relevant product;(c) consumers of a relevant product or representatives of consumers of a relevant product;(d) any other persons that the Secretary of State considers appropriate to consult.(2) Consultation under this section must include a call for evidence.(3) The Secretary of State must have due regard to all views received as part of any consultation under this section.”Member’s explanatory statement
This amendment requires the Secretary of State to consult retailers, manufacturers and consumers on the practicality, enforceability and efficacy of the products in scope of the generational sales ban on tobacco products before implementing these regulations.

[Lord Jackson of Peterborough (Con)]

My Lords, this amendment is essentially about the product scope of the consultation. I will say at the outset that I am not a smoker, and I have no fiduciary or pecuniary interest in the sector, but I am sure the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, will be delighted to know that I am speaking on the basis of empirical evidence which informs my remarks. The focus is specifically on heated tobacco products. I hope noble Lords will not groan about that because, given that the noble Lord, Lord Vaizey, was not here to move his amendment, we have not really had a debate about the efficacy of the ban as it affects heated tobacco products.

The broad thrust of this amendment is about consultation. It would require the Secretary of State to undertake the most basic task of any Government, which is to consult those impacted—retailers, manufacturers and consumers—on the practicality, enforceability and efficacy of the products in scope of the generational sales ban on tobacco products. I will take those points in turn, with the caveat that I will be focusing on heated tobacco products.

Heated tobacco is not smoking. In fact, it is an effective aid, as my noble friend Lord Howe said, in stopping smoking. The generational ban is a misguided step, but if the Government insist on proceeding with it, they should follow the evidence and remove heated tobacco from the scope. I shall speak to that more later. I want to talk about the practicality of the generational ban. Leaving aside the philosophical debate, there are practical public health considerations that may have been reflected in the Bill if a proper consultation had taken place. The first is that, for those who already smoke, heated tobacco products are an effective smoking cessation tool. They have helped Members of this House and the other place to quit smoking. It is illogical to include them in the ban and the Government should commit today to consulting with consumers of heated tobacco products so that they may understand their utility more clearly.

The second public health point is that simply the number of people, especially young people, starting to smoke is now very low. It was 1% of 11 to 15 year-olds in 2021 according to Action on Smoking and Health. An even lower number, just 0.3% according to the same survey, are using heated tobacco products. All of this suggests there is no need for heated tobacco products to be included in the scope of banned products. There will always be outliers and the Government’s own impact assessment

“assumes some people continue to smoke despite it being illegal for effectively all ages to be sold tobacco by 2100”.

For these adults, it makes sense for all cessation products to be available so that the road that has worked for decades can be taken—smoking reduction policies that inform, nudge and dissuade rather than remove the rights of adults to make their own choices.

I want to talk about enforceability and the illicit trade and retailers, and all within the context of proper consultation or otherwise. We do not have to look into a crystal ball to imagine the consequences of this legislation, particularly the generational ban. The policy has already backfired in Australia where there is now a booming illicit trade fuelled by criminal gangs. We would be naive to assume the same situation could not happen here in the United Kingdom. A consultation with retailers would reveal the issues they already face with rising crime and illicit trade. This would undoubtedly worsen with confusing arbitrary rules for different legal products.

We should make these measures as simple as possible for retailers by categorising all smoking cessation products in the same way. That would be a useful start. We know that young people will still be able to get their hands on illegal cigarettes, just as we know that they are able to procure all manner of products that they should not be able to. Teenagers have always been resourceful; that is why it is important that we continue to make all possible smoking cessation tools available to all adults because, whatever the law says, there will be adult smokers born after 1 January 2009.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

I assure the noble Baroness that there is nothing paper about the exercise that we are undertaking, but I accept her point and I have on previous groups. This is not one size fits all; the issue manifests itself in different ways. I wanted to present an overall national position, but I of course understand. That is why we are looking at regulations and why we have a call for evidence, consultations and an impact assessment, so that we do not uniformly treat all areas the same. It is important that we remind ourselves, as I have done repeatedly, that tobacco is a deadly addiction. Stopping children from starting to smoke is the easiest way to reduce smoking rates, and that is at the core of the Bill.

[Lord Jackson of Peterborough (Con)]

Will the Minister give way? I am trying to be helpful. As the Minister has made some quite fair and emphatic comments about the toxicity of heated tobacco and its lack of efficacy in smoking cessation, would she be so kind as to put that in writing to me in order for members of the Committee to consider that as we go forward in the Bill?

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

I will be happy to.

On Amendments 135A and 136A, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Johnson, health is a devolved matter, as noble Lords are aware, so the implementation of retail licensing in Northern Ireland is ultimately a matter for the Department of Health in Northern Ireland. However, it is a shared view that it is important that details of our respective retail licensing schemes are informed by adequate consultation with all relevant stakeholders. That is why, in collaboration with the devolved Governments, we have launched a call for evidence that asks detailed questions about a number of matters that noble Lords have rightly raised. It is open until 3 December and asks detailed questions about the implementation of retail licensing, among other topics. I can say to the noble Earl, Lord Howe, and the noble Lord, Lord Johnson, that it asks how a retail licensing scheme can be implemented effectively. We encourage feedback on how existing businesses should be treated specifically, and I hope that responses will come forward.

I remind noble Lords that following the call for evidence there will be a consultation, so there is plenty of opportunity to consider all the important points that have been raised today. For example, we will ask whether there should be any exemptions from needing a licence and whether factors such as restrictions on the location and density of retailers should be features of the scheme. We believe it is important that such decisions are informed by expert views, and it would not be right to prejudge the evidence that we receive by putting in place different rules for one particular type of business, as the amendment suggests.

The absence of a retail licensing scheme, as I have spoken to on previous groups, represents a major gap in the enforcement of tobacco and vape legislation. All tobacco products are harmful, and it is right that we ensure that those selling the products are following the rules and acting responsibly. A retail licensing scheme will help to deter those who fail to do so, and I know all noble Lords are concerned to do that. With that, I hope noble Lords will be good enough not to press their amendments.

[Lord Jackson of Peterborough (Con)]

I thank all noble Lords who took part in this debate on my amendment. I particularly thank the noble Baroness, Lady Fox of Buckley—it goes without saying that of course I support her Amendment 114C—and my noble friend Lord Sharpe of Epsom. This debate and the previous group have shown that it is quite difficult to properly launch a generational ban in a monolithic way without disaggregating the different products, which are discrete products.

I fear that the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, did not actually read the amendment, because it specifically says it is not just for the benefit of retailers and manufacturers. Subsection (1)(d) specifically mentions

“any other persons that the Secretary of State considers appropriate to consult”,

which would include health bodies and charities. Subsection (2) says:

“Consultation under this section must include a call for evidence”,


which, presumably, the latter would also avail themselves of. These are wide ranging and permissive powers of consultation, and I hope she might reconsider when we come back on Report.

We have had a good debate on this issue, given that we did not have a specific heated tobacco product amendment per se. With the proviso that the Minister has given me an undertaking to provide the data on the efficacy of heated tobacco products, and a very straightforward undertaking to do more consultation on these key areas, I am happy to withdraw this amendment.

Amendment 114A withdrawn.