Lord Weir of Ballyholme
Main Page: Lord Weir of Ballyholme (Democratic Unionist Party - Life peer)
Lord Weir of Ballyholme (DUP)
Is it not also the case, if we are looking at assisted dying much more from a justice prism, that one of the broader, important elements to establish, where death has occurred, is whether there has been any criminal action or intent, in terms of the administration but also in a situation where people coerce somebody to die? That is another reason why, if this is to happen, it should sit much more with the justice side of things than with the health side.
Lord Sandhurst (Con)
I agree entirely with the noble Lord. That is why at the start, perhaps briefly and elliptically, I talked about bad agencies and people. That is not the health service’s primary role. It will happen from time to time. I know a medical professional —I mentioned this at Second Reading—who has a relative in charge of safeguarding in a major London trust. One of the concerns they have, and what they have to deal with from day to day, is families who are not all united in their support for an elderly and tiresome relative and would often, in fact, like them helped on their way. I will not say more, but I think the point is clear that this structural point is a major failing in the Bill.
Baroness Berridge (Con)
Well, I hope that he will write to me personally about this.
In relation to the evidence on which the noble Lord, Lord Birt, is basing his argument, I was surprised that the right reverend Prelate mentioned the Australian non-comparable. Paragraph 8.4 of the impact assessment, on the delivery model, states that
“in most jurisdictions where assisted dying is legal it is provided through the healthcare system”,
so looking for international comparators is an unusual approach. The 30 jurisdictions that we keep hearing about include the Isle of Man, Tuscany in Italy, and only 13 of the 50 United States. This is not a wave that we must get with, as many progressive politicians like to say it is. Denmark considered this in 2024, and 16 out of 17 members of the Danish Council of Ethics voted against introducing assisted dying into their jurisdiction. Only yesterday, the French Senate decided not to go forward with legislation. This is in no way a progressive train that we need to get on.
My second point relates to the speed of these decisions for families. We know that the Bill is philosophically based on individual autonomy, which is anathema to many communities. For families to know that this was done within 18 days will only compound what we believe will be complicated grief. I am particularly concerned about how the speed of service will fit in with the increasing uncertainty of diagnoses for 18 to 25 year-olds because of the various positive effects of treatments for them. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer, has admitted that there are, sadly, deficiencies in Clause 43 in relation to advertising. I do not think I am a cynic, but I am sorry to say that I can see a competition: “Can I get to 18 years and 18 days and be the first young person to meet that milestone?” We do not want a culture of speed in this process, limiting reflection.
Finally, maybe I am the only noble Lord sitting here without the benefits of the pre-legislative scrutiny of a consultation White Paper but, with many amendments, I am wondering how this service will fit together with a panel—or will it be a judge, or a judge with a couple of other members? That is the deficiency: in Committee, we are still trying to put right the lack of pre-legislative scrutiny, and I do not know whether that is possible.
Lord Weir of Ballyholme (DUP)
The noble Baroness raised the issue of speed. It comes back to a point raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Fox. Often in public policy issues, there is a trade-off between the speed of a decision and its quality. Sometimes when we short-circuit or fast-track decisions it can inevitably lead to a greater level of mistakes being made. But in a wide range of other public administration or public policy decisions, there is at least the advantage that if a mistake is made, there is the opportunity at a later stage to come back and correct it—to perhaps appeal, review or reverse it. Of course, the major problem with this is that if we fast-track things and it leads to a death that should not have occurred, we cannot bring the person back to life.
I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Markham, who said in response to an intervention from the noble Baroness, Lady Berger, that he perfectly acknowledged that we should have the safest possible system—I see that he is nodding now. I therefore find it very difficult to see how we get the safest possible system if these amendments go through and decisions are fast-tracked, inevitably leading to greater numbers of mistakes and shortcuts.
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)
My Lords, in introducing this group of amendments, the noble Lord, Lord Birt, said that one of the reasons he tabled them was that the proposals in the Bill are potentially chaotic and prolonged. This group is in some ways something and nothing. The proposals make the case for a profound imbalance, with assisted death actively facilitated, accelerated and led through the dedicated service with speed. As my noble friend Lord Stevens said, this is not in scope for the NHS and NHS services, and we have to look at the NHS constitution. I ask the Minister whether, in the light of some of the proposals, there is a plan to rewrite the NHS constitution as well as the fundamental principles of the NHS, as read out by my noble friend.
The amendment’s structural conflict is between efficiency and caution. In responding, can the noble Lord, Lord Birt, explain how the clock will be stopped and by whom, and whether a request to shorten the process will trigger enhanced scrutiny? If so, how that will be done? Will all the assessments be face to face to improve the chances of detecting coercion to death? Will all the contacts with the navigator be recorded and audited so that one can be sure that the auditor is not acting in a profoundly subtle and coercive way?
The navigator seems to bypass a search for many things and, without the amendments in the names of the noble Lord, Lord Mackinlay, and others, I cannot see how that imbalance would be corrected. At least the imbalance is there, but Amendment 771 gets to the heart of the problem: it tries to make all of this a profound NHS responsibility. As we have heard, the NHS cannot cope. We have patients on extra beds in the middle of wards, seriously ill patients being looked after in corridors and patients sitting on plastic chairs waiting for a bed, sometimes dying on those plastic chairs.
The NHS is not the place to have a dignified death in a hospital setting in the lovely planned way that seems to be described and desired by some people. People are working themselves into the ground trying to manage their current workloads. As has been said, the workforce itself is completely on its knees. GPs are already overstretched. Evidence suggests that assisted dying would require around 30 hours for an individual case, yet many palliative care doctors and psychiatrists would opt out, therefore decreasing the pool. That is relevant to the way these amendments are put together.
I will respond to some of the points raised about whether the public want this. When the public are asked in polls what they understand about assisted dying, 52% say that it is a right to stop treatment. They already have that right. Nobody should be treated against their will, and they should be supported in that decision. Some 17% of people think that assisted dying is hospice care.