Aerospace Industry

Debate between Mark Tami and Emma Reynolds

Wednesday 12th September 2012 Westminster Hall

[Mark Tami]

Yes, that is true. We have mentioned Brian Fleet, who has retired from Airbus but started off as an apprentice there, left and then came back. That is telling. Such people have a real feel for all levels of the company and are loyal to the aerospace industry and to this country.

Nevertheless, we cannot rest on our laurels. There are threats to Airbus, not only from Boeing in America but from growing industries in Russia, Brazil, Canada and China. When orders are given to Airbus, or indeed to Boeing, part of the deal will often be that some production function will end up going to one of those countries. We might not like that, and in an ideal world it would not happen, but that is how it works, and the challenge for us is to stay ahead and always be moving forward so that no matter what we end up giving away we have something to replace it with, the skills and value of which are hopefully higher than what we have lost.

Airbus is a European partnership, and we are fortunate to have the wings. Spain, Germany and France would love to have the wings. Although we have had a good order book, going back, as I mentioned, for many years, it is always about the next aircraft. We have the A350, and the next one will be the replacement for the A320, which is the real workhorse of the fleet for most airlines. Clearly, we want that here, and it should be here, but Spain, Germany and France will make a good case for its being elsewhere. If we lost that work, the long-term future would not be good. It is vital, therefore, that we invest now. Composites are the future—in fact, they are not the future, they are now. Aircraft are being built with composites now. The UK was behind in composites, and is now catching up, but we need to invest more if we are to bridge the gap that is still there.

The Government need to invest. They have put money in and given support, but I am concerned when I hear that government is not about picking winners. I do not have a problem with picking winners; I have a problem with picking losers. We must invest in success. In the past, the Government too often waited for companies to fail and then threw money at them. That perhaps delayed what was going to happen anyway, but rarely did it turn around a business that had probably gone too far to be saved. I do not have a problem with investing early in the success of a company. There is a huge and growing market out there to exploit, and we are fortunate to be in a strong place in it.

Mention has been made of the military side of things, which unfortunately is sometimes seen as totally different from the civil side. Clearly the planes are different, but the ways in which planes are developed, whether via composites or a whole host of engineering changes, often come from innovations made through military aircraft. The 400M military transport aircraft is the first aircraft to have composite wings produced in Bristol. A lot of work has been done there that could be used for composites in civil aircraft as well. We have only to look back to the Boeing 747, the entire development of which was, I think, paid for by the US military apparently because it was going to be a military transport aircraft. Clearly, it was never going to be that; it was just a way of being able to pay Boeing’s development costs for what became a successful large-scale airliner. We cannot, therefore, separate civil and military; they are both important.

Colleagues have already addressed some of the main issues regarding the EU emissions trading scheme, so I will not go into great detail, but the point I will make is that China and America are concerned and angry about how the scheme operates. I am not saying that we should just scrap it, but we need to consider ways of getting through the issues, otherwise we will end up with a repeat of what we had in the World Trade Organisation, with the different sides throwing rocks at each other and no one really winning.

Mention has been made of the orders that are potentially under threat. It is not just Airbus that would lose from that, but the whole supplier chain, including Rolls-Royce, which would supply the engines for the aircraft. It is important that the situation should not spiral out of control.

The motor industry has also been mentioned; clearly the industry in the UK went through a dramatic decline. I am pleased that we now produce more cars than we ever did in the past—or, if we are honest, we assemble more. However, the supplier chain has not recovered and we have lost quite a lot of the design stuff. Some has not come back—perhaps it never will. Even the aerospace market is very competitive, and there is pressure to get suppliers to give the best price. Sometimes those suppliers will come from abroad; but we still have a good supplier chain in this country, and we need to invest more in it.

Training has been mentioned, and perhaps, whether with Airbus or anyone else, we need to focus lower down, because we still have skill problems. We must be honest about that and address it. It is a major problem, and it relates not just to technical skills but some basic skills. I think many employers are struck by the fact that there are still such problems.

[Emma Reynolds]

Does my hon. Friend agree that the Government might consider the Rolls-Royce model of taking on more apprentices than are needed, and, at the end of the training, making the extra apprentices available further down the supply chain, so that it has those skills available to it?

[Mark Tami]

That is a good point. One of our problems is from the days of privatisation. Whatever faults people may have found in state-run companies, they trained a lot of people to a high standard. After privatisation, one of the first things to change was that many people were not trained any more. I am thinking of electricity supply companies. Many people trained in the public sector ended up going into the private sector. Complaints are made to me about Airbus or other bigger companies poaching people from the supplier chains to feed their needs. That can only happen for a while before the supplier chain—and quality—suffers. Then Airbus or whichever company is involved will look elsewhere for support.