Mike Wood
Main Page: Mike Wood (Conservative - Kingswinford and South Staffordshire)(3 weeks, 5 days ago)
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Dame Meg Hillier
Everybody is always welcome to Hackney South and Shoreditch—it is the centre of the universe, although others may disagree with me. It is only half an hour by bike or public transport from this place, so I highly recommend it—a good night out will be had by all!
The new breweries and pubs are bucking the trend in hospitality, and the archway areas are becoming hubs for other businesses. High streets can be challenging, but in Hackney our high streets still do reasonably well, partly because although Hackney is often described as being very hip, cool and expensive—and that is true—it is still achingly poor. One in two children live in poverty, although thanks to the Government’s changes on child poverty hopefully that will reduce, and nearly 60% of people live in social housing, many in overcrowded conditions. The arches are part of what might be called “new Hackney”, but they build on the old traditions.
Saint Monday is an innovative brewery that combines brewing with heavy metal, so any heavy metal fans here can get a bit of real ale and heavy metal in the same place. Great Beyond taproom and brewery, another archway-based business, was set up by Ollie, Nick and John, three beer-loving friends. They do some amazing work and people can buy great Shoreditch and Hackney-made beer there. I forget which bar serves which beer—perhaps we need to do a crawl of all the ones named after Hoxton and Shoreditch? That alone would keep us busy.
The Howling Hops brewery brews on site as well, and I really like the 40ft Brewery in Dalston, which I go to every now and again. The name 40ft refers to that fact that it is based in two 20-foot shipping containers, so not arches this time. That would not reach the heritage standards set out by the hon. Member for Kingswinford and South Staffordshire, but there is interesting new heritage coming through in our breweries. Many breweries offer tours, including Signature Brew and Five Points, so if people are thinking about gifts as we approach the festive season, I highly recommend a visit to Hackney and a tour of one of the breweries. This shows the modern culture that is coming through. Some of the breweries are in heritage buildings, and the arches have their own heritage, but the challenge would be whether they qualify under the provisions set out in the hon. Gentleman’s Bill.
I want to talk a little about assets of community value. When I read the Bill for the first time, I was trying to find what was specifically different about the provisions relating to assets of community value. The hon. Member for Kingswinford and South Staffordshire outlined some of that in his speech, so I am now a little wiser to his thinking. Assets of community value were introduced in the Localism Act 2011. It provides communities with a route to nominate and retain any building or land, such as heritage pubs, that they feel
“furthers the social wellbeing or social interests of the local community”.
Local authorities are responsible for ensuring that those schemes are run in accordance with the legislation, as set out in part 5, chapter 3 of the Localism Act 2011 and the Assets of Community Value (England) Regulations 2012. That includes making decisions on whether a nominated asset meets the definition of an asset of community value, as set out in the Act.
Although I have no scepticism about the hon. Member for Kingswinford and South Staffordshire’s intent, which a lot of us share, I remain sceptical about the Bill. The Government are already strengthening the assets of community value scheme, which I am sure the Minister will go into in her remarks, through provisions in the English Devolution and Community Empowerment Act 2026. That will introduce a new community right to buy that covers some of the provisions in the Bill, including, from memory, clause 9 about how people can put in a bid to own a property. Communities will have the first opportunity to purchase an asset if it is put up for sale by its owner. They will have 12 months to raise funding and there will be an independent valuation process to ensure a fair price, so that negotiation is successful. That is close to a lot of the provisions in today’s Bill, so he is welcome to intervene and tell me why he thinks his Bill is different.
Mike Wood
The whole point is that it really is not different—large parts of it are copied directly from what the Government introduced for assets of community value. As I said in my opening speech, though, in most cases community groups do not go through the quite complex process of getting the building facility registered as an asset of community value until there is a direct threat that they know about, as we saw with the Crooked House and as we may yet see with pubs such as the Macbeth in the hon. Lady’s constituency, which I do not think is currently an asset of community value. If those pubs came under threat, it would almost certainly be too late for the community to respond and get the community right to buy. This Bill would make sure that that right is available from day one for these really important historic pubs in the hon. Lady’s constituency and in mine.
Dame Meg Hillier
I thank the hon. Gentleman for that clarification. We have already talked with some passion today about the pubs, heritage buildings and heritage in our constituencies that we value, so that means that we need to push for them to become assets of community value.
I will give an example from my constituency: the Chesham Arms on Mehetabel Road, which was Hackney’s first ever asset of community value. That pub is 162 years old; it closed in 2012, and the owner at the time just assumed that it would be possible to turn it into flats. It is on a residential street—it is a traditional east London pub in a terrace. It is not very big; it is just a little neighbourhood pub, and when it closed there was an assumption that it would be easy for it to be redeveloped, but the council stepped in. At the time, the council was under Labour control—we also have an elected mayor in Hackney, although of course planning matters are not matters for the elected mayor—and it defended the Chesham Arms from redevelopment. It reopened in 2015; it is a real success story.
The hon. Member for Kingswinford and South Staffordshire is right, though, because the challenge was that that pub closed and then became an asset of community value. Learning from that example and from the comments that the hon. Gentleman has made, we all need to be ahead of the curve on this. Whether it is a tramshed that is a heritage building and has become a pub, a pub that has been there for a very long time or a coffee house that has become a pub—whatever the cultural issues are—we can push for those buildings to be assets of community value in a wider way than the hon. Gentleman’s Bill allows for. I suggest to the Minister and all colleagues that we take today as a call to arms for us to implement the essence of the hon. Gentleman’s Bill, without having to go through a quite complicated process that I think narrows the scope too much. There is an opportunity for us to broaden our understanding of what a culturally rich heritage site is, and push for assets of community value to be more widespread ahead of a threat arising, as the hon. Gentleman rightly says.
I am not going to go through all the pubs in my constituency—we would be here for a very long time, and I am aware that other people want to speak. Needless to say, I would be very happy to arrange a tour at any point, and I am sure that the various bodies I have worked with over the years on beer and breweries would be keen to help enable that. In fact, when the current Chancellor was working in the Treasury, he was instrumental in changing the taxation of small breweries to make it possible for these craft breweries to exist—breweries that create many jobs in brewing and, of course, hospitality. They still struggle at times, but they are bucking the trend compared with a lot of our other assets, so as Members, we need to be more ambitious.
We do not necessarily need to legislate for everything; the legislation is already in place, and I think we are very capable of using the legislation we have to protect the assets that hon. Members have spoken eloquently about and defended. I am happy to continue to work with the hon. Member for Kingswinford and South Staffordshire on the intent of his Bill, but I do not feel that this is the Bill to support. I think we can deliver on his agenda without passing the Bill today.
Rebecca Smith (South West Devon) (Con)
It is a privilege to be able to speak in the debate that my hon. Friend the Member for Kingswinford and South Staffordshire (Mike Wood) has secured on the important topic of heritage public houses. I am very privileged to have 64 pubs in my constituency—there are a couple of Conservative clubs included in that number, which is worth mentioning. That is quite a few compared with some Members, who I know only have a handful. In particular, the more urban constituencies are not always fortunate enough to have as many pubs as constituencies that, like mine, are a nice mix of urban and rural.
Given the nature of my constituency, which in large part is made up of historic villages that have either merged into the city of Plymouth or have remained as very sweet South Hams or Dartmoor villages, we have a large number of historic pubs. They would have been stopping points for travellers, potentially travelling up from Cornwall through Devon and on to London, and a key part of the community, including in fishing and rural communities. Villages such as Noss Mayo and Newton Ferrers have four or five pubs between them. They are very small, and people would be shocked at how many there are, but I can reassure Members that they maintain a healthy trade. The Mussel Inn in Down Thomas is another key country pub that serves excellent food.
Plympton and Plymstock were villages before they were absorbed into the city of Plymouth. They have some very historic pubs, and I will touch on a couple of them shortly, but it is worth mentioning the village of Turnchapel. We proudly still refer to it as a village, but it is now an important part of the city of Plymouth. Turnchapel has both the Boringdon Arms and the Clovelly Bay, which are key parts of the community. Fortunately, they are being kept going by the marine autonomy work that is happening at a former Royal Marine base next door.
There is the historic Drake Manor in Buckland Monachorum—hopefully, Sir Francis Drake would have been pleased to be its namesake. Milton Combe has the Who’d Have Thought It, a classic thatched pub at the bottom of a hill in a tiny little village, which serves the most wonderful food. I always make sure to go there with friends just before Christmas.
We have a fantastic community-led pub in Cornwood that was recently shortlisted for one of the Countryside Alliance’s rural prizes and came all the way to the House of Commons. Although it was not a winner that day, we are very proud that it was nominated. The Old Smithy, which is not named after me, is a very good pub in Ivybridge.
Those are just a few of my pubs. Like others in the Chamber this morning, I will not name all of them, but I think it is was worth putting those ones on the record. It is also worth mentioning the names of such pubs. We have heard of Woolsacks and all sorts of historic names, and we know that even the bars in Parliament are named for specific historic reasons. I particularly want to mention the Skylark in the little village of Clearbrook. If anybody is ever on Dartmoor, they will hear the skylark tweeting away across the moors. What is so wonderful about historic pubs is that their names reflect something that is either historic or specifically tied to the culture of the local community. Such names draw young people into connecting with the history.
I want to make special mention of the community groups all over the country that help pubs to survive by sending people on walking routes around them, or by highlighting them through competitions. There is a thriving Facebook page called Plymouth on Tap, which runs a comprehensive competition for pubs in different communities and chooses winners. It is worth mentioning the volunteers behind such Facebook pages and websites, who do so much. Plymouth on Tap says that it is about:
“Mapping Plymouth’s pub history & fighting for the ones we’ve still got.”
I pay particular tribute to the organisers of that group this morning.
That leads me to the value of Members of Parliament running competitions. Like many others, I have run a pub of the year competition. I am delighted that the winner over the last two years has been a historic heritage pub in my constituency, the London Inn in Plympton St Maurice, which is an old village. It is a 16th-century grade II listed building, but can still muster enough votes to have won for two years in a row. I am adding some extra categories for the year ahead to make sure that other pubs can win, but Simon, the landlord, knows that I am doing that. Hopefully, he will push for the best pub in Plympton award, and maybe—who knows?—he will win overall best pub as well.
I come back to my point about the importance of heritage pubs and the stories they tell. As I have alluded to, the village of St Maurice was along a major route to London. Who would have thought that little old Plympton St Maurice was a stopping point on the way? It has an incredible history that I will not go into fully, but perhaps I should apply for an Adjournment debate on it at some point. Plympton St Maurice was the home of many fine 17th and 18th-century artists, so if anybody is waiting to speak and wishes to look up the history of Charles Eastlake or Joshua Reynolds, they will see that the London Inn may well have been frequented by them, as they were schoolboys at Plympton grammar school and then went on to be leading figures at the Royal Academy and the National Gallery. If anyone is bored this morning, they can have a look while they are listening. The London Inn sits below a ninth-century castle. Such pubs are historic not just for the buildings themselves, but for their heritage, because of the communities that they sit in. The fact that a pub is so old usually means that the community around it has been there for that long as well.
That leads me to another heritage pub, the Union Inn, which is also in Plympton—as the House can tell, Plympton is a very old part of my constituency. What I love is that these buildings do not get hindered by the listings that they might have, and the fact that they are not allowed to make changes to their interiors. In the Union Inn’s case, it creatively uses its garden space, which is now the home of the Plympton Royal British Legion branch. I have attended several ceremonies with the RBL in the garden of that historic pub. Although the rooms are small and it is incredibly cosy inside, it does have land around it. I was privileged to attend a D-Day event and a VE Day commemoration event, and I know the pub will appreciate that mention this morning. Those are two clear examples of the strong community roles that these heritage buildings—by nature often constricted because of their physicality—can play in their neighbourhoods.
It is worth just touching on why these heritage pubs need saving in the first place and why we need to look at this legislation today. Given the nature of their fabric, it can be harder to bring in the numbers or to diversify into serving a carvery or a particularly complicated food menu. For these heritage buildings with tiny little rooms and steps everywhere, serving food in the way that a lot of modern, purpose-built pubs do will be particularly difficult.
We know that pubs are facing considerable challenges, given the economic climate and the tax increases that the Government have levelled on them, whether it is the increases in national insurance, the minimum wage for young people or business rates. Government Members will say, “We’ve done some work on business rates for pubs,” but the damage has already been done in many cases. That is yet another reason why we must protect these heritage pubs by enabling them to maintain their roles within the community and by ensuring that they cannot be turned into houses.
I recently met a constituent who is starting on the journey towards securing a community asset certification for a local pub that has been sold. Ultimately, the hoops that have to be jumped through are incredibly difficult. I will not name the pub, because I do not want to ruin what my constituent plans to do and the work going on in that community to do things properly, but it has highlighted the concern in communities where these pubs exist that they could lose their public house designation and see a change of use. What my hon. Friend the Member for Kingswinford and South Staffordshire (Mike Wood) is doing through this legislation, which builds on what is already there, is important. The hon. Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch (Dame Meg Hillier) has highlighted the legislation that exists already.
Ultimately, nobody wants to see what is often a large building in a village turned into flats or the equivalent. I grew up in the city centre in Plymouth in a community called Greenbank, which is not in my constituency, but is just outside. It is historic. It was once fields, and it has seen a lot of building over the years. I am not sure we could say it was famous for this, but on pretty much every corner was a pub. If I walked to school, I would walk past probably four or five small neighbourhood community pubs in among the terraced houses. One reason for that was that the neighbouring communities were owned by Brethren family, who would not allow any pubs in their area. That meant that Greenbank, where I grew up, made up for it in numbers, and there were plenty of pubs for anybody who lived in St Judes, Hyde Park or Mannamead in the constituency of the hon. Member for Plymouth Sutton and Devonport (Luke Pollard).
However, because those pubs were not assets of community value, but were just neighbourhood pubs, they have, pretty much without exception, been turned into student accommodation—I think the Providence Inn, around the corner from where I grew up, is effectively now somebody’s living room. There is nothing worse than seeing historic pubs that were part of a Victorian neighbourhood turned into student accommodation. Indeed, the one at the end of the road that I grew up on—it would have been built as an inn on the corner of a crescent—is now student accommodation. What was once a lounge bar and a place where people could play darts or pool, or pop in and have a drink with community—people used to have friends in these pubs that they would go and see—have all been turned into properties that people are now living in.
Students are great, but they do not live there the whole year, and instead we have lost that community asset. That is why this legislation for heritage public houses would be so helpful. It would ensure some control over the changes within a community that might affect the very fabric of what is going on in that area.
I am not going to speak for much longer. My hon. Friend the Member for Kingswinford and South Staffordshire is well known for his love of a good ale and is a big supporter of the APPG for ale—is it ale? I am not an ale drinker, so I never quite know the name. I drink the odd beer, but I am not a big warm ale fan. I would rather be in a nice country pub drinking a glass of wine.
Rebecca Smith
My brother’s Labrador is yellow, so I did not quite get the joke, but I like the value of it.
I believe that my hon. Friend has raised some valuable points, and his Bill offers some smart safeguards. This is an important debate, because one of the things that makes the United Kingdom so special is the culture we have of community and historic pubs. We know that they were the coaching inns of the past—places of refuge and safety that people could stop at if they were travelling on long journeys—and they are a particularly British institution. I am very grateful to have been able to contribute to this debate. For those Members who have not yet clocked it, I obviously love a bit of history, so it has been wonderful to be able to talk this morning.
Linsey Farnsworth
I absolutely agree. That example makes a powerful case for why it is so important to allow and equip our local communities to take community assets back into public use, so that they can celebrate them and enjoy them.
Taken together, the measures that I have mentioned recognise an important principle: local people should have a stronger voice in shaping the future of the buildings and institutions that matter most to them. However, the provisions relating to the community right to buy, including the extension of the moratorium period, have yet to come into force. On behalf of the residents of Amber Valley, I would welcome an update from the Minister on when the necessary regulations and guidance will be published. Community groups across Amber Valley are keen to understand how these powers will operate in practice and, crucially, how soon they can make use of them. That is why I welcome the intention behind the Bill.
While I support the objective of protecting historic pubs, I think there is a broader point worth making. The significance of a pub is not simply found in the age of its bricks and mortar; it is found in the memories made there, in the conversations held in the bar and in the communities built around it. After all, heritage is not just about buildings; it is about people. When people in Ambergate talk about the Hurt Arms, they are not simply talking about a Victorian inn; they are talking about a place that has formed part of community life for generations. Even its name tells a story, preserving the memory of the Hurt family, whose influence on the area stretches back centuries—although a lesser known story about the name of the pub involves a young me coming up with sillier and sillier names for the pub as we drove past on our way to Matlock Bath for a day out, with “The Sore Legs” being a favourite of mine back in the day.
When people in Riddings talk about the Moulders Arms, affectionately known as “The Thack”, they are not simply celebrating its grade II listed status or its distinction as Derbyshire’s only thatched pub; they are celebrating a pub whose very name preserves the memory of the skilled moulders employed at the nearby ironworks at Pye Bridge.
Mike Wood
The hon. Lady is talking about some outstanding pubs in her constituency, but does she recognise that, because the Hurt Arms is neither listed as an asset of community value nor a registered listed building with statutory protection, it would have next to no protections without the provisions in the Bill, even after the improvements in the framework? Will she think again and support the Bill, so that pubs in her constituency such as the Hurt Arms can benefit from the community right to buy that she has spoken of?
Linsey Farnsworth
As the hon. Gentleman knows, I am supportive of the essence of the Bill. Woe betide anybody who tried to take the Hurt Arms away from the people of Amber Valley. Indeed, when I come to the Pentrich revolution in a moment, the hon. Gentleman will understand why I would never cross the people in my constituency.
As I mentioned, the Moulders Arms is preserving the memory of the skilled moulders employed at the nearby ironworks at Pye Bridge, helping to tell the story of the industry that helped to build the modern Amber Valley. Then there is the Seven Stars in Riddings, built on the site of a former chapel and dating back centuries. It later found itself connected to events surrounding England’s last armed uprising, the Pentrich revolution of 1817. Local authorities gathered information and monitored unrest, siting themselves within the pub as the rebellion unfolded nearby. If only the Pentrich Brewing Co., which opened recently, had been around back then, maybe the men would not have gotten as far as to be arrested.
Even pub names that have disappeared often linger in local memory. In parts of Amber Valley, residents still instinctively give directions with reference to the Red Admiral in Codnor, despite it becoming the Poet and Castle many years ago. That demonstrates something important: heritage is not simply found in bricks and mortar. Sometimes it survives in memories, in stories and in the names that communities refuse to let go. Of course, not all pubs with community value are centuries old. Indeed, one of my concerns in debates such as this is that we sometimes risk implying that only old pubs are worth protecting or, indeed, that measures brought in with every good intention may stifle progress, particularly with buildings that have already fallen into disrepair.
The truth is that today’s community pub is tomorrow’s heritage pub. What matters most is whether it serves its community. Take the Candlemaker in Ripley. The building takes its name from its former life as a candle factory. Fortunately for the business, the owners recognised that people in 2026 have rather less need for candles than their Victorian predecessors. They sensibly concluded that wine and tapas, and bringing more people into Ripley town centre, would probably do more for our local economy than trying to recreate the candle trade. As the business owners proudly put it:
“Founded in 1830. Reimagined for 2026.”
That strikes me as a rather good description of what successful pubs have always done. They evolve, they adapt and they find new ways of bringing people together.
The same can be said for the Groovers Arms in Peasehill near Ripley. Formerly the Beehive, a traditional Victorian pub, it has been transformed into something rather different. The main event now happens not in the Victorian building, which still exists, but in a separate building at the end of the garden, which has been transformed into something beautiful. Through live music, community events and Groovefest, the pub has found new ways of serving local people and attracting visitors into the area. That adaptation, in my submission, should be celebrated, not discouraged.
Equally, some pubs thrive precisely because they combine heritage with modern community life. The Dead Poets, a village pub in Holbrook, is a multiple-award-winning pub and the current Derbyshire CAMRA pub of the year. It began life as the Cross Keys, before being extensively restored and reimagined. Today it hosts quizzes, poetry events, festivals and community gatherings, as well as serving exceptional real ale and cider. Its success demonstrates that protecting heritage is not about freezing buildings in time but about ensuring that historic places remain relevant, well used and valued by the communities around them.
Newer venues such as Mary Lou’s Smokehouse & Craft Bar in Ripley demonstrate how pubs continue to innovate. From the outside, one might assume that it is a traditional micropub, but once they step inside, they will find a large and vibrant venue with live country music, comedy nights, themed events, food and entertainment alongside its drinks offering. I recently dropped in with some members of Young Labour following a campaign session; I had a quick drink and then left them to enjoy themselves. I am in no position to confirm or deny whether any line dancing took place that evening, Madam Deputy Speaker—you would have to ask them!
The same is true of Amber Valley’s growing micropub sector. Whether it is Tom Said in Ripley or the Tip Inn in Loscoe, these smaller venues are proving enormously popular because they offer something that people increasingly value: character, conversation and community. Their buildings may not yet qualify as heritage assets, but they are already becoming community assets. While I support protecting historic pubs where appropriate, we must also focus on helping pubs survive and thrive.
Lizzi Collinge
My hon. Friend puts me on the spot—of course I cannot remember a single example right now, but I know they are everywhere. However, the point he makes about reuse of buildings is really important, and one that I will come back to. While we can keep pubs as pubs, times change and things change, and what is important is to preserve those buildings for the use of the community, whether as a pub or not. I thank the group in his constituency for doing that.
The Queen’s Hotel in Morecambe recently changed hands, so I want to wait and see what happens with that, but it sat neglected for a long time. That has a huge impact on how people feel about the town and on the businesses and landlords who make a huge effort to keep their buildings in really good condition; it is not fair that they should have to be next to those eyesores.
I want to take a moment to talk about the business community across Morecambe and Lunesdale, and in particular Morecambe BID’s work in the town. I meet local businesses every week, and without doubt they are a key part of what makes a community thrive. We have loads of local businesses who are wedded to the community. They are part of it and do a lot to support it.
For example, I recently met Vicki Edwards, who is a breast cancer survivor. She is raising money for CancerCare, a fantastic local charity that supports families affected by cancer. Vicki was supported in her campaign by 14 local pubs. Every venue had a collection box and leaflets on “know your normal”, which is a Breast Cancer Now campaign to help people detect suspected breast and chest cancers earlier. Many of those pubs also ran their own fundraising events for CancerCare. I want to recognise the Morecambe pubs that supported Vicki, which are the Pier Hotel, Soul Bowl, Palatine, the Bull hotel, Fisherman’s Square, the Chieftain Hotel, the Royal Bar and Shaker, the Crown Hotel, Harry’s Bar, the York, O’Nellys, Brittlestar Wine Bar, the Pestle and Mortar and the Hurley Flyer. I think even more pubs might have helped out, but that was the list in my local newspaper, so I am sticking to it. They, as always, showed the best of British businesses.
I want to talk about the staff who work in these pubs. Heritage pubs often have narrow staircases and low-levelled cellars. I have worked in many a pub, and met my husband when he was running the Britannia in Lancaster, a Victorian pub that is now a block of flats. Staff in pubs work very hard, often with antisocial hours, and sometimes have to deal with some interesting customers. That is why I am proud that they now have much better employment protections through our Employment Rights Act 2025, in particular the improved sick pay situation and, of course, the increase to the minimum wage. I spent many years working on the minimum wage, and that increase is an absolutely essential part of ensuring that everyone who works hard for a living is rewarded for that.
I remember the long hours, the hard work, the occasionally tricky customer, the glasswasher breaking on the busiest day of the week, of course, and the beer delivery being late. But I also remember the joy: not only meeting my husband, but the wider friendships we built, the flatmates above the pub—Stephie, Jay, Jade and Chris—and the late-night chats—definitely not lock-ins; we never did that. I still occasionally pop over to Lancaster and drop into the Gregson centre, which was originally built in 1889 for the community. I worked there twice and, 20 years later, I still see regulars who I used to serve. In fact, one of those regular’s toddler sons—who should, I swear, still be three years old—was recently on “University Challenge”. I am sure that Aliki is very proud of her son.
That work history also came in handy when visiting local pubs in my constituency, where they set me up with a pint glass, a real ale pump and a glint in their eye, clearly expecting the local MP to make a right frothy mess of the pint. I particularly remember a visit before the election to the Royal, in Bolton-le-Sands, with my right hon. Friend the Member for Leeds West and Pudsey (Rachel Reeves). I have to say, I do pour a better pint than my right hon. Friend, and it is a proper northern pint with a creamy head, too—none of this southern nonsense with no sparkler tap. I am not having that; it is just absolutely wrong.
I will turn now to the provisions in the Bill. The Bill obviously has good intent, and I share the desire of the hon. Member for Kingswinford and South Staffordshire to protect our heritage pubs and buildings. I mentioned the Tivoli in Morecambe and the Victorian pub where I met my husband now being flats, and they are just two examples.
I do have some concerns about certain aspects of the Bill, as I do not want to create more bureaucracy in the planning system. I think one of the great achievements of this Government will be having a planning system that works to protect our assets without being overly complicated and expensive. About 70% of planning authorities in England already have heritage lists, and 11,000 of the listed buildings are pubs or inns, so pubs are already afforded strong protections through the planning system.
Mike Wood
The hon. Lady is speaking about the local heritage listing, but does she recognise that it does not protect the interior of pubs? It does not stop anyone from going into any of those pubs tomorrow and ripping out historic beams, fittings or anything that is not physically part of the bricks and mortar of the building.
Lizzi Collinge
That is an interesting and important point. I will go on to mention the importance of retaining those additional features when pubs, or any buildings, are renovated. The hon. Gentleman makes an important point there. However, as he knows, proposals to demolish or change the use of pubs already require a planning application, as they are deliberately excluded from relevant permitted development rights. That allows local authorities, through the planning committee, to consider the full impact of the proposals. Local authorities have the power to issue an enforcement notice for a breach of planning control. I appreciate that in the hon. Gentleman’s case, with the Crooked House, that came far too late, and I really do share the despair he must have felt at that happening.
We have talked about the heritage lists. Pubs that are formally designated as listed buildings are afforded additional protection, with listed building consent needed to demolish or undertake any works of alteration or extension that affect the listed building’s character or appearance. Failure to obtain listed building consent is, of course, an offence.
I just want to say that I thoroughly support local authorities’ fully enforcing all planning consents and building regulations. There is a pub in the area where I was a county councillor that was changed into flats where the developer, frankly, had no respect for the planning process or local people and consistently and flagrantly breached the planning consents he had been given. I would support much stronger powers to prevent people like that from being able to develop in the future.
Markus Campbell-Savours (Penrith and Solway) (Lab)
I congratulate the hon. Member for Kingswinford and South Staffordshire (Mike Wood) on bringing forward the Bill, and I bow to his superior knowledge of pubs both heritage and modern. I do not doubt how thorough his research methods have been.
This is an issue of enormous importance, particularly for rural constituencies such as Penrith and Solway, where the village pub is often much more than simply a business. The Bill would establish local authority registers of heritage public houses, introduce restrictions on their sale, and create additional protections in the planning system. In many of our villages, the pub sits at the heart of community life. It is where neighbours meet, local groups gather, funds are raised for worthy causes, and people maintain the social bonds that hold communities together. The loss of a village pub can be devastating. It can fundamentally change the character of an area and leave a void that is never truly filled. I therefore understand entirely the motivation behind the Bill, and the desire to ensure that valued pubs are not unnecessarily lost.
However, I wish to focus my remarks on provisions in the Bill that contain similar principles to the asset of community value framework, particularly the restrictions on sale and the opportunity for community acquisition. As I understand it, under the Bill owners of a registered heritage public house could be subject to a process including a full moratorium period of up to 12 months before a sale can proceed in certain circumstances. My question is a practical one: what happens when a community wishes to buy a pub, has local support and a business plan, but needs time and financial support to complete the purchase?
Mike Wood
The hon. Gentleman asks a reasonable question. The answer is that the procedure and timelines in the Bill are exactly the same as those the Government introduced for assets of community value in the English Devolution and Community Empowerment Act 2026. Community groups will have eight weeks to register an expression of interest, and then up to 18 months to get the bid together and complete the negotiations. As I said, if they are not able to agree the price because of an unreasonable demand from the seller, then—just as with assets of community value—the independent valuer can set the price.
Sarah Hall
Absolutely, and I am a big advocate for communities taking over things like leisure centres. In Warrington South, the community is taking over sports pitches as well, because they are better able to access the funding they need, and they know what the demands are in the area and are best placed to support and reinvest in those things. I encourage all local authorities to get behind this incredibly powerful provision.
As we have said, the Bill could represent a substantial change in the opportunities available to communities seeking to acquire their local pub. The purpose of the legislation should be to make it easier for residents to save a valued pub, not leave them navigating an unnecessarily complicated set of rules. For Warrington South, that means listening to residents, community groups, publicans and local businesses about what would genuinely help them.
Mike Wood
The hon. Lady spoke about the Ferry Tavern in her constituency—an 18th century pub, like the Crooked House was—which is not an asset of community value. Does she think that is because her residents do not care about it, or is it because of a failure on the part of the council or a gap in the system?
Sarah Hall
It is an incredibly valued and unusual pub, which is very much loved in the community. I would welcome anyone coming along to see it.
If we want to understand why pubs and brewing matters to Warrington, we have to look beyond buildings and planning applications to the events that bring people together. One example of that is Warrington Oktoberfest. Last week, I sponsored a barrel at this year’s event.
Kevin Bonavia
I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. Far be it from me to cast aspersions about where Liam Gallagher has been drinking around the country, but I am sure wherever he goes, he brings joy to the venues he attends. The point about the Man in the Moon in Stevenage is that although it is only a few decades old, we need to make sure that it is remembered for its heritage over those decades, not hundreds of years ago. That is a point that I do not think this Bill addresses head-on.
The Rose & Crown in Aston is another pub that was not going to survive. In that case, residents bought community shares in the pub and it survived, so we have two examples of pubs surviving in my constituency. That is great—the mechanisms are in place, but people need to be willing to come forward and need the funds to do it. To come back to what my hon. Friend the Member for Penrith and Solway (Markus Campbell-Savours) said earlier, we need to make sure that when the community has that will, it also has the ability to purchase and run these pubs. That is no mean feat, and it is not simply about legislation; we have to think far more about how we make that possible. I hope the Minister can touch on that issue in her winding-up remarks.
I have given the House examples from Stevenage of why protection of our pubs matters. As has been said by other Members, we already have protections in place, and new ones will come in this year and next through the devolution Act. I encourage other communities to take advantage of those protections, but beyond that, we need to make sure that we are protecting existing pubs and other enterprises.
Mike Wood
The hon. Gentleman has referred to a number of important and valuable pubs in his constituency, but none of them seems to be an asset of community value. That system has been in place for 15 years. If it is an effective protection, why does he think so few communities have registered their important pubs as assets of community value? What has prevented them from doing so?
Kevin Bonavia
We could have a whole debate about the reasons for that, outside of today’s Second Reading debate. One of the most important reasons, I think, is that the community needs to be given the ability, awareness and wherewithal to do it in the first place. It is not just about making laws; what really counts is what we do with them. As such, while I am pleased that new legislation is coming in that is going to help protect pubs regardless of what happens to today’s Bill, and while I am pleased that this Government have made such an effort to support existing pub businesses around the country—remember, one in six pubs were lost during the tenure of the last Government—
Anna Dixon (Shipley) (Lab)
I am delighted to speak in this debate, and I thank the hon. Member for Kingswinford and South Staffordshire (Mike Wood) for bringing the Bill forward. I do not think any of us in the House would question his motivation. We heard the passion with which he spoke of the terrible destruction that befell the Crooked House pub in his constituency; I think many of us remember hearing about it in the news and the events that followed.
As we have heard in so many fantastic contributions from Members across the House, we all share the desire not only to preserve the heritage pubs that have been at the heart of our villages and communities for centuries but to ensure they continue to thrive for decades or, we hope, centuries to come. As we have heard, these pubs are so much more than small businesses. They are community institutions. They are places where memories are formed. They are places where history is made. My hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh East and Musselburgh (Chris Murray) is claiming one of the pubs in his constituency as the birth of the enlightenment. It is very tricky for me to match that, although we do have very interesting and historic pubs across Shipley.
Pubs are meeting places and places of history. For me, pubs are where I gather with my family—my mum and dad, my brother, sisters, nieces and nephews—on family occasions, around a large table, often enjoying a Sunday roast with large portions of Yorkshire pudding, washed down with one of my favourite locally-brewed pints. It is difficult to mention what my favourite beer is, unlike my hon. Friend the Member for Bury St Edmunds and Stowmarket (Dr Prinsley)—I am assuming that his favourite beer is Greene King, because he mentioned it a lot in his speech. I will have to mention several of my favourite local brews: Saltaire Brewery, the Goose Eye Brewery in Crossflats and the Bingley Brewery in Wilsden all produce excellent craft brews.
Those local independent breweries also need relationships with the local heritage pubs. Sometimes the tied pubcos prevent those independent breweries selling their beer in the pubs that are almost across the road. We need to look more broadly at not only the heritage pubs but the relationships between independent pubs and breweries, to ensure that the whole industry thrives.
Shipley is home to many charismatic, historic pubs that welcome locals and visitors alike. I have, because of the generosity of colleagues, been able to briefly mention a few of those historic pubs, but I will come back to one or two and give more detail about them. The Malt Shovel in Harden is a grade II listed building that lies next to one of two Roman roads that run through the village. It is believed to have been constructed as early as 1550, and as we have heard from other Members, it had a number of historical uses, including a farmhouse, a coaching house, a courtroom and a prison.
There does seem to be some connection between pubs and prisons, so I better watch out when I am next down there enjoying a pint that somebody does not decide to put me in the cell. The pub has a cell room from that time, complete with a barred window. Thankfully, I have thus far avoided that when I have been down there. That is partly because I would rather sit in the pub’s spacious beer garden, particularly after having done door knocking, which I tend to focus on during a summer blitz of the villages.
The Malt Shovel is as cosy inside, with a warm fire in the inglenook fireplace, which is reported to date back to the time of William and Mary. In the Bill, I am interested in the point about how we preserve the interiors of the pubs. As everybody has said, the character of historic pubs is not only the external façade but the interior, whether that is the inglenook fireplace, beams or other features. I would like to understand how we can preserve the interiors of heritage pubs.
The second pub that I briefly mentioned and will come back to because it is pertinent to the Bill is The Old Glen House in Baildon. It is a beautiful old building, dating back at least 500 years. At the moment, my constituents and I are very worried about its future. It has had a few years of intermittent closures, and following the departure of the recent tenants, it remains closed. It is currently missing a roof.
At my recent townhall question and answer session in Baildon, one of my constituents raised the matter of the pub. When pubs stand empty, they are at higher risk of arson—I realise that in the hon. Member for Kingswinford and South Staffordshire’s case there is still a pending court case, but we also see it elsewhere. The building is neglected, and the lack of roof could lead to internal damage. My constituents are rightly concerned about the impact on the building of its standing empty, and about its future.
The Old Glen House is a popular pub. It stands on the edge of Shipley glen on Baildon moor. It is a fantastic spot that people love to come to. They come on the train to Saltaire, they go through the historic Roberts Park in the Saltaire world heritage site. They catch the Shipley Glen Tramway, which is an incredible feat of Victorian engineering from 1895—it used to come up to Shipley glen where there was a fairground. That is where the pub is, and it is a fantastic local asset. I will be working with local residents, learning from some of the examples we have heard in the Chamber today of how communities have come together, but the first thing is to put pressure on the pubco to ensure it makes the necessary improvements, brings it back to its former glory and protects this valuable, community pub, the Old Glen House.
We have heard a lot about community assets and some of the challenges for communities to do that. That is one thing we need to try to understand. It is fantastic—I am a member of the Co-operative party as well—that the English Devolution and Community Empowerment Act 2026 gives new powers for communities to buy assets. Communities face a lot of obstacles, as we heard so eloquently from my hon. Friend the Member for Penrith and Solway (Markus Campbell-Savours).