National Pollinator Strategy

Debate between Neil Carmichael and Joan Walley

Thursday 16th October 2014 Commons Chamber

[Joan Walley (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Lab)]

I was going to make a long speech, but in view of the time left and all that has been said, I will condense the important points that arise—as the hon. Member for Truro and Falmouth (Sarah Newton), whom I congratulate on securing the debate, said—from the work done by the Environmental Audit Committee, not just in one report, which is authoritative, but in the follow-up report on the national pollinator strategy.

Many members of the Committee are in the Chamber this afternoon—I apologise to the Minister for the fact that, for personal reasons, I will not be here for the wind-up speeches—and we want him to take into account, before the Government finalise the national strategy, the authoritative work we have done, the evidence we have received and the detailed hearings we have had. We owe that to the many organisations and people who have engaged skilfully and diplomatically with the Government, from Friends of the Earth, to the National Federation of Women’s Institutes, to Buglife, to the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds, to get this national pollinator strategy. It would be unfortunate in the extreme if the detailed work, good will and campaigning that has been done all around the country to get the strategy fit for purpose was not taken into account as the Government prepare to finalise it and make it operational.

[Neil Carmichael]

I endorse what the hon. Lady is saying. The report is very thorough. It has a huge amount of evidence from a wide range of experts and was properly considered by all members of the Select Committee. It is, if I may say so, as I am a member of the Committee, an example of excellent work by a Select Committee. I hope that the Minister takes heed of what he has heard not once but twice or even thrice.

[Joan Walley]

I would say this, wouldn’t I, but the work record of the worker bees on the Environmental Audit Committee is second to none. It is worthy, perhaps, of a detailed meeting with the Minister before he finalises and signs off the national pollinator strategy.

We still have concerns, some of which I think are echoed by the organisations that contributed. We welcome the work that has been done so far by the Government. The fact that we have further reservations, conditions and asks does not mean that we do not welcome what has been done, but there are various areas where further work is needed.

We do not want to see the European Commission’s neonicotinoid ban undermined. We are aware that an application came through in the past 12 months that was withdrawn before the Government finally considered it, but it is important that the ban stays. That prompts the question: what happens at the point when the ban is reviewed? What will happen next? As the hon. Member for Southampton, Test (Dr Whitehead) rightly set out, the important issue is the research that will be done and the research that is set out in the draft strategy. We have major concerns relating to transparency and the independence of those doing the research. When my hon. Friends and I met in Brussels, we were surprised to hear from the Commission that some of this important research was being financed not with European money, which we felt would have given it a semblance of independence, but by the agrochemical companies. For that reason, safeguards have to be put in place.

I hope the Minister will address the point about independence, if not now, then later, as it was not thoroughly addressed in the response to our report, which we have tagged to, and made available for, this debate. We need continual scrutiny of how close DEFRA is to the companies carrying out the research. It is one thing to have funding; it is another to contribute to the design. We need a referee—some kind of overall body—to ensure that the research is not designed only by those with vested interests.

Natural Capital (England and Wales)

Debate between Neil Carmichael and Joan Walley

Monday 21st October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Joan Walley]

There is agreement on this on all sides of the House. If policy decisions from the Treasury lock us in to investment for many years to come, we will be prevented from including the true value of natural capital in how those decisions are reached. Parliament has to find a way of having shared responsibility reflected in the Chamber. I hope the commitment, which I am sure we will hear from the Minister when he comes to reply, will be reflected in the Treasury, and that the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs understands that the debate is about the economy not just in rural areas, but in each and every part of regeneration policy.

[Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)]

I am a member of the Environmental Audit Committee, of which the hon. Lady is the Chair. Does she agree on the importance of incorporating this discussion in the debate on green finance, on which we will be doing a report shortly? Does she also agree that it is pivotal that we link up with the Treasury, DEFRA and all other Departments, because this needs to be a joined-up process?

[Joan Walley]

I absolutely agree. Certainly on green finance, this needs to be embedded at the heart of not just the Treasury, but the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. When the right hon. Member for Meriden, who was instrumental in setting up the NCC, gave evidence before our Committee, she absolutely understood the importance of the Treasury and Cabinet Office taking on this agenda. I do not know how closely she is watching how the Government are following through on her work, but it is vital that the Minister picks up those responsibilities, which were put on the drawing board when the NCC was established, and follows up on all of this.

The green book, which is under review, provides a good starting point for the cost-benefit analysis, but it does not include natural capital within its cost-benefit guidance, and it is important that capital stocks, including natural capital, be included in the review as potential constraints alongside the social cost-benefit analysis. What discussions has the Minister had with the Treasury on that? I know that the Woodland Trust, in particular, shares our view.

The NCC contains many recommendations. As GLOBE said, one of the key questions is: what should the Government be doing? I would like them to commit to incorporating the value of natural capital in international accounting and policy-making processes by 2020 at the very latest. Will the Minister comment? In that regard, the work of the Office for National Statistics is critical, and certainly my Select Committee will be taking evidence on that and looking to see what progress is being made.

It is not just about what we do nationally, however; it is about what happens internationally, as we heard just now. The Government need to take up the NCC’s report at the international level. I think of the work on the sustainable development goals, which, as we heard from the hon. Member for Beverley and Holderness, followed the Rio+20 conference in Brazil last summer. Securing appropriate recognition of natural capital accounting within the United Nations is important. As we have heard, so far the post-2015 high-level panel has emphasised the importance of the sustainable management of natural resource assets with regard to poverty eradication. It is important, however, that the Government go one step further. As the Government take the sustainable development goals further, will the Minister ensure that all capital accounting, including of the natural environment, is addressed as a specific goal?

Progress at the UN can be made only if we make corresponding progress nationally, and here I wish to flag up the role of business, because this is not just about what the Government do; as many Members have said, it is about what business does as well, and many businesses accept that the global economy is entering a new era.

The Prince’s Charities “Accounting for Sustainability” report was prepared in the run-up to the Rio conference and made a positive impact on the discussions that took place there the summer before last. In it, His Royal Highness the Prince of Wales said:

“There was a time when we could say that there was either a complete lack of knowledge, or at least room for doubt, about the consequences for our planet of our actions. That time has gone. We now know all too clearly what we are actually doing and that we need to do something about it urgently. Better accounting must be part of that process.”

In that report, and in the report that we are debating this evening, the business case is made for the integration of environmental and social information. Chief finance officers across industry are recognising that ethical breaches can collapse a company in no time. Work already under way by leading companies is reinforcing the natural capital committee’s recommendation for more work with leading companies’ accounting bodies, landowners and managers to develop and test guidance on best practice in corporate natural accounting. Will the Minister tell us how the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills is dealing with those issues?

From the perspective of the Environmental Audit Committee, given our current inquiry into fossil fuel subsidies, it is pertinent that the Government should pay particular attention to the NCC’s recommendation for a review of the extent to which natural capital is being effectively priced and, in particular, for an examination of the scope for reducing perverse subsidies. What dialogue is the Minister having with the Department of Energy and Climate Change on that issue?

The ways in which the Government take up the initial recommendations will depend entirely on the pressure that exists at local level. Whatever the Government do will go further if there is support for their actions locally. I commend a recent report from the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds that was launched here in Parliament last week. It sought to find out how connected to nature the children of the UK were, in an innovative three-year research project to establish a clear definition of connection to nature and, more importantly, a method for measuring it. The research highlights a wide range of benefits for children, society and the environment.

We all accept that nature is in trouble. Indeed, we had a debate in Westminster Hall last week on wildlife crime. The hon. Member for Richmond Park (Zac Goldsmith) pointed out that the more we understand about wildlife, the better we can value and protect it. So it matters a great deal if we, as a nation, do not understand how much trouble nature is in. With 60% of our species in decline, the protection of wildlife must begin at home, in our childhood. The research study examined a representative sample of young people. In it, the desirable score relating to being in touch with nature was 1.5, but that score was achieved by only 21% of children. There were big differences between boys and girls, between different parts of the country and, in particular, between urban and rural areas.

I happen to think that this matter needs to be addressed by the Government. We urgently need to amend our education legislation to make the teaching of sustainable development a duty. Many people agree with me on that, including educationists and practitioners who run field centres. The national curriculum can no longer overlook an understanding of the natural world. If the Government were to take on board that sentiment, it would chime with the direction of travel of the natural capital committee’s recommendations, and I ask the Minister to consider this possibility and to take up the matter with Ministers in the Department for Education.

Finally, there is a need for a long-term policy framework that supports and incentivises organisations, including financial institutions, to value and report on natural capital. Arguably, however, the committee’s report is a statement of intent rather than a clearly defined route map. At this stage, it is much more about generalities and intentions than about clear recommendations. As the committee moves on from its first report, it needs to be much more direct and much more forward, and it needs to build on its clear set of principles by making specific recommendations—advice on offsetting, for example.

When the Government come to review the natural capital committee in 2014, I hope that they will take some of those issues on board. The natural environment White Paper sets out an ambitious vision for nature and our natural capital assets. Genuinely embedding the value of natural capital into the fabric of economic decision-making is crucial to achieving that vision. The Government must now build on the work of the natural capital committee.

Wildlife Crime

Debate between Neil Carmichael and Joan Walley

Thursday 10th October 2013 Westminster Hall

[Joan Walley]

I am grateful for that intervention, which illustrates that if international leaders decide to take a lead, drive the agenda forward, and show true leadership, it is possible to start to deal with these issues. Returning to biodiversity, which is inextricably linked to the concerns that the hon. Gentleman mentioned, it is important that we do not lose momentum. We understand a lot more than we did six months ago about the interconnectedness of these issues, which is part of the agenda that we are dealing with. He is absolutely right, and that might give the Minister more ammunition, if he needs it, to drive the agenda forward.

[Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)]

To reinforce the point about international leadership, does the hon. Lady agree that the Antarctic is a good example of where international leadership is moving in the right direction when it comes to protecting wildlife, particularly flora, fauna and marine life?

[Joan Walley]

That intervention highlights the potential for a constructive debate following the publication of a Select Committee report that looked at the question in detail. The hon. Gentleman has great experience on the Antarctic—and, indeed, following our report on the subject, the Arctic—and he has admirably illustrated that there is real scope for leadership. Events in the Antarctic have demonstrated that what happens there affects all of us; what happens in any part of the planet affects all of us. The issues that we are discussing should not be placed in a box labelled “the environment”; they affect everything from governance and war to money laundering. All these things are interconnected. The sooner environmental questions are placed at the heart of international issues, the better.

I do not apologise for the fact that our report is about the detail of what we found in our investigation. We identified a number of absurdities in the implementation of CITES in UK law. Why, for example, should a vet be present when samples are taken from any animal that is suspected to have been trafficked into the UK? That is a reasonable stipulation in the case of a living animal, but given that we cannot even afford to guarantee funding for the national wildlife crime unit, it is a huge waste of resources to require a vet to be present in cases involving taxidermy. It does not make sense. We even heard that a vet would have to be called out before a sample could be taken from a table made from Brazilian rosewood, which is a CITES-listed species of tree. It is difficult for the Government to provide credible international leadership on tackling wildlife crime if they do not put their house in order.

In their response, the Government said that they would attend to the issues relating to the Control of Trade in Endangered Species (Enforcement) Regulations 1997, which implement the international agreement on endangered species, but it would be helpful to know from the Minister what the timetable is. How far has the consultation progressed, and, most importantly, when will a statutory instrument be introduced? I hope it will be before the 2014 high-level summit.

Before I move on, I want briefly to mention tigers. We were concerned about the poaching of tigers, and, as with all endangered species, we recognise that attitudes must change if those animals are to survive. We desperately need new ideas to challenge demand for such illegal wildlife products.

In conclusion, I hope that the Minister, and his new colleagues in other Departments following the recent reshuffle, can see the impact of wildlife crime. As we have heard in interventions, that impact is huge, and it is growing by the day. The new urgency requires a clear lead from Government as they prepare for the high-level summit that they are organising in London in 2014, which we welcome. If the Government revisit our recommendations—this is the nature of Select Committee scrutiny—they could go into that meeting in a much stronger position. Not least, they could think again about our final recommendation relating to the Partnership for Action Against Wildlife Crime. PAW, as it is aptly known, is a multi-agency representative body. Its current membership of 140 organisations includes all significant UK conservation and trade bodies with an interest in combating wildlife crime. It is co-chaired by a DEFRA civil servant and a senior police officer. We called for a DEFRA Minister to take an active interest and give political direction by chairing the body. Our suggestion was dismissed out of hand in the Government response, on the grounds that devolved Administrations were not likely to collaborate in the way that we envisaged—perhaps I am taking a little bit of poetic licence there.

I hope that in this short debate we can set out the need for the Government to be bolder in response to all our recommendations, and not simply the one relating to PAW. WWF UK has expressed concern that the Home Office and the Ministry of Justice are falling behind, while other Departments—DEFRA, Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office—are forging ahead. DEFRA is the No. 1 Department, with lead responsibility for ensuring that all Departments protect biodiversity. Only by giving further consideration to our recommendations—we would be happy to arrange to discuss them with the Minister—can the Minister demonstrate clear strategic direction and leadership in his new career at DEFRA. I am grateful to have had the opportunity to hold this debate.