Mortgage and Rental Costs

Debate between Nigel Evans and Chris Bryant

Tuesday 27th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[Sir Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

Further to that point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I do not want to comment on whether there is an appropriate sanction, because I am the Chair of the Committee on Standards, but the tweet that the right hon. Member for Romsey and Southampton North (Caroline Nokes) referred to says that several Conservative Members

“voted against the motion and in support of the grooming and mutilation of children”.

I suggest that that is incitement of violence against those Conservative Members and Opposition Members who voted against the motion. It is probably also actionable, and if any Conservative Members want to pursue that course of action, I will stand with them.

I wonder how we ensure that we protect the privileges of this House, namely freedom of speech. I would protect the freedom of speech for the Member for North West Leicestershire (Andrew Bridgen) to be able to say what he did in debate, though I thought it was absolutely abhorrent and despicable. It also chills my bones, as I suspect it does yours, Mr Deputy Speaker, because it feels as if a new section 28 is being introduced by the back door for trans people, just as we used to have for lesbian and gay people. How do we ensure that freedom of speech is guaranteed for the whole House and that we are not abused for doing our job properly?

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I thank the right hon. Member for Romsey and Southampton North (Caroline Nokes) for her point of order and the forward notice of it and Sir Chris Bryant for the further point of order. While we do have privilege to speak as we wish in this House and rules to ensure that that freedom is used responsibly, what a Member says or retweets outside the House is not a matter for the Chair. Nevertheless, Members should remember that moderation is desirable outside the Chamber as well as within it, especially when criticising Members for their conduct in parliamentary proceedings. I am sure that this is not the last we will hear of this particular matter.

Seizure of Russian State Assets and Support for Ukraine

Debate between Nigel Evans and Chris Bryant

1st reading
Tuesday 7th February 2023 Commons Chamber

[Sir Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That leave be given to bring in a Bill to require the Secretary of State to lay before Parliament proposals for the seizure of Russian state assets to provide support for Ukraine; and for connected purposes.

Maryinka in Donetsk, about 50 miles south-west of Bakhmut, used to have a beautiful, majestic basilica with a golden dome, named for our Lady of Kazan. It used to have a successful tyre factory. It used to have a population of 10,000, whose ancestors were Ukrainian Cossacks, Greeks and exiled Poles. It managed to survive sustained attack by Russian paramilitaries in 2014 and 2015. Today, however, it is a place of icy rubble, shelled-out apartment blocks, burnt trees, waterlogged trenches and machine gun posts, all under constant Russian bombardment. Not a single building remains standing. It has been pulverised, literally reduced to dust—obliterated—and yet, miraculously, Ukrainian defences hold on.

Maryinka is not alone. There is Bucha, and there is Mariupol. In Soledar, the junior and senior schools are reduced to shells. In Bakhmut, every single house along the main arterial road has become a crater. In Dnipro, an apartment block that was once home to 1,700 people has been destroyed. In Irpin, Yana and Serhiy Psariova’s 10th-floor two-bed apartment is a blackened shell, its roof ripped clean off and all its contents incinerated.

Ukraine is truly suffering. Up until 15 January 2023, since the second round of the invasion last year, the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights recorded 18,358 civilian casualties: 7,031 people killed and 11,327 injured, including 177 girls and 221 young boys. The UNHCR reckoned in September last year that 12.3 million people had left Ukraine and 7 million had been displaced internally. I think we all agree that Ukraine must win, but she must also be allowed to rebuild. By some miracle, some reconstruction is already happening—United24, for instance, is trying to raise £17 million to rebuild 18 apartment blocks in Irpin, Borodianka, Hostomel, Buzove and Mila to rehouse 4,237 people, and has raised £15.5 million so far—but this is not even the tip of the tip of the iceberg.

On 9 September 2022, a joint statement from the World Bank, the European Commission and the Government of Ukraine estimated that the current cost of reconstruction and recovery in Ukraine was $349 billion. In December the World Bank’s vice-president, Anna Bjerde, told the Austrian newspaper Die Presse that it was now closer to €500 billion to €600 billion, or $525 billion to $630 billion; and the figure is rising. Ukraine estimates that Russia has caused $1 trillion-worth of damage since the start of the full-scale invasion last February, and that is not even allowing for the costs in Crimea and parts of Donetsk and Luhansk, which were invaded in 2014. It estimates that 150,000 residential buildings, 1,500 schools and 20,000 km of roads have been destroyed.

Someone has to pay, and there are only three options. First, there is Ukraine herself, but her economy is projected to be 25% smaller this year than last. Secondly, there are her allies. The United States has committed tranches of $40 billion and $12.3 billion, and a further amount is coming soon. We in the UK have set aside, I think, £3.4 billion, and so far the European Union has found roughly €50 billion. Individuals have been generous too: German families gave €5.7 billion last year. There are plans for a donors’ conference to take place soon, hosted by the UK, and I hope it will be very successful.

Thirdly, there is Russia’s own debt to Ukraine. Russia is truly a great nation, with a phenomenal history and culture and extraordinary people, but this is a war of aggression, and I hope that individuals—including those at the very top of the army and of the Government—will face justice in the Ukrainian courts or at an international war crimes tribunal. My Bill simply requires the British Government to present plans to seize the assets belonging to the Russian Federation which are already frozen in the UK because of the sanctions we have imposed, and allocate them to Ukraine and the Ukrainian people.

I can, of course, hear objections. What about the international rule of law? Yes, on the whole it is not a good idea for Governments to seize others’ assets. That is the kind of thing we would expect Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin to do. The right to property is fundamental to the rule of law. However, it is never absolute: the law reserves the right to fine and to deprive people of ill-gotten gains in certain circumstances. Moreover, that argument would apply more clearly to the seizure of individuals’ assets—the assets of the Russian oligarchs who obtained their money through their crony relationship with Putin or through criminality—but I am not talking about those; I am talking only about Russian state assets.

So what about sovereign assets, I hear you ask. Are they not normally protected by the concept of sovereign immunity? Yes, but very few countries now consider that to be an absolute immunity, and there have been many exceptions, for instance to meet damages awarded by international courts and arbitral tribunals. The UK’s State Immunity Act 1978 expressly restricts sovereign immunity. I would argue that Russia’s continuing refusal to comply with international human rights law by attacking civilian housing and infrastructure, and its wilful refusal to follow orders of the International Court of Justice and the United Nations General Assembly, are ample grounds for the creation of such an exemption.

What about the possibility of Russia’s seizing UK state assets in retaliation? Well, I very much doubt that we have any state assets in Russia— I certainly hope we do not—and it is time that UK businesses, including Unilever, BP and Infosys, completely withdrew from Russia. What about the possibility of sovereign wealth funds of other countries deciding to divert their assets from the UK for fear that we should seize them, if we were to proceed in this manner in relation to Russia? Well, the only precedent that we are setting here is that if a state invades another self-governing state and thereby wages a war of aggression against it, we shall not just freeze but seize its assets. We would all worry if we thought that another state was contemplating such action, and the very fact of our doing this might well make authoritarian regimes pause before going down such a dangerous route. I would therefore argue that it is good law, not bad law, to take this action.

But here is the main point. This is a political decision, not a legal one. Nearly $350 billion of Russian Central Bank reserves have been frozen by democratic countries around the world, and £26 billion of that is frozen in the United Kingdom. Canada, Italy, the European Union and the United States are all considering action. It is the very least we owe the people of Ukraine. Russia has forfeited its rights to these assets. It owes Ukraine far more than money; it owes it blood.

This Bill has the support of the Chairs of the Defence and Foreign Affairs Committees, a majority of members of the Foreign Affairs Committee, the former leader of the Conservative party, members of the SNP, the Liberals and the Labour party, including the hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Neil Coyle), my hon. Friends the Members for Warwick and Leamington (Matt Western), for Nottingham East (Nadia Whittome), for Sheffield Central (Paul Blomfield) and for Rochdale (Tony Lloyd), the hon. Members for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton), for Strangford (Jim Shannon), for Witney (Robert Courts) and for Crawley (Henry Smith), my hon. Friends the Members for Blackley and Broughton (Graham Stringer) and for Wallasey (Dame Angela Eagle) and the hon. Member for Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey (Drew Hendry). Even more importantly, the Ukrainian ambassador has asked me to say that he and his nation support this Bill.

I am not naive. I would love the Government to take up the Bill, give it time and get it on the statute book by the end of this Session, but I know that Governments just do not work like that. They do not like doing that kind of thing. I note, however, that the Security Minister indicated yesterday that the Government were looking at this issue with their allies and that the Defence Secretary has said that if we cannot do this, he wants to know why. I have spoken to the Chancellor and the Justice Secretary about it, and I hope that if the House unanimously agrees that the Bill can proceed today, the Government will hear loud and clear that we think now is the time to act.

I will end with some verses:

“Drop everything and run away

leave your house, your cellar with apricot jam jars

and pink chrysanthemums on the terrace

shoot your dogs, so they don’t suffer

abandon this land, just go

he says: don’t talk nonsense, we throw dirt on coffins daily

he says: everything will be fine, salvation will come soon

he says: the humanitarian aid is on the way.”

My question is: is it?

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

This would be the time for anyone who wishes to oppose the 10-minute rule Bill to indicate that. I have had no such notification and I see none.

Question put and agreed to.

Ordered,

That Sir Chris Bryant, Sir Iain Duncan Smith, Dame Margaret Hodge, Liam Byrne, Sir Robert Buckland, Alicia Kearns, Layla Moran, Joanna Cherry, Colum Eastwood, Stella Creasy, Chris Grayling and Mr Tobias Ellwood present the Bill.

Sir Chris Bryant accordingly presented the Bill.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 24 February, and to be printed (Bill 245).

Seafarers’ Wages Bill [Lords] (Programme) (No. 2)

Ordered,

That the Order of 19 December 2022 (Seafarers’ Wages Bill [Lords]: Programme) be varied as follows:

(1) Paragraphs 4 and 5 of the Order shall be omitted.

(2) Proceedings on Consideration shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion two hours after the commencement of proceedings on the Motion for this Order.

(3) Proceedings on Third Reading shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion three hours after the commencement of proceedings on the Motion for this Order.—(Mr Richard Holden.)

Business without Debate

Debate between Nigel Evans and Chris Bryant

Monday 9th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[Sir Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Briefly, the motion has now been agreed that the hon. Member for North West Leicestershire (Andrew Bridgen) should be suspended from the service of the House for five sitting days. As is referred to in the motion, the Standards Committee also required him to make an apology to the House. I understand, of course, that he has not been able to be here today, but I hope that that can happen as soon as possible after he comes back.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I thank the hon. Member for his point of order, which is on the record. I assume that that is exactly what will happen.

Foreign Affairs

Ordered,

That Stewart Malcolm McDonald be discharged from the Foreign Affairs Committee and Drew Hendry be added.—(Sir Bill Wiggin, on behalf of the Committee of Selection.)

High Speed Rail (Crewe - Manchester) Bill

Ordered,

That Gavin Newlands be discharged from the High Speed Rail (Crewe - Manchester) Bill Select Committee and Dr Lisa Cameron be added.—(Sir Bill Wiggin, on behalf of the Committee of Selection.)

Points of Order

Debate between Nigel Evans and Chris Bryant

Thursday 20th October 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

Mr Speaker and the entire Deputy Speaker team deprecate any taking of photographs, whether in the voting Lobby, the Chamber or certain other areas. Mr Speaker has made it absolutely clear, but let me emphasise it again: do not take photographs in areas where they are forbidden. The hon. Gentleman has made a good point, and it is the responsibility of each and every one of us to behave better as role models to those outside looking in.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

Further to that point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I am grateful to the hon. Member for Bracknell (James Sunderland) for telling me that he was going to raise this matter. I want to be absolutely clear that I took a photograph, and I did so knowing that I was breaking the rules of the House—the etiquette of the House, certainly. I did so because I believed that the example being set, when we are trying to change the culture of bullying in Parliament, was such that it was necessary to override the normal course of action. I apologise to the House for doing so. However, it is very important to understand that if 12 Members were to stand around a member of staff in that way, they would probably end up being suspended from the House for a long period for bullying. We have only just started taking bullying seriously in this Parliament.

I am not questioning what you just said, Mr Deputy Speaker, but I gently suggest that there is a good argument that one of the rules we have had for a very long time—that there is no photography and no filming in the Lobby or adjacent areas—is now out of date, and it might actually help us to stop some of the bullying—[Interruption.] I am only suggesting it gently, but it might stop some of the behaviour. Some of the behaviour changed in this House when the Chamber began to be filmed.

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

The hon. Member has made two points. One was an apology, which the House has heard. The second was about rule changes. That is not for the Chair; that is for the House, and there is a procedure to do that. The hon. Member has made his views known, and he will know how to progress that. It is then up to the House to decide whether it wishes there to be a rule change.

Points of Order

Debate between Nigel Evans and Chris Bryant

Monday 4th July 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I thank the hon. Member for giving notice of her point of order and I can understand her concerns as she has voiced them today. They are clearly not the responsibility of the Chair, but she has put her concerns on the record and I am sure Ministers will have heard them. I hope a speedy resolution is forthcoming. I am asking the Treasury Whip to make sure. [Interruption.] He is doing that as I am speaking. Thank you very much.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. As you know, in order to get an oral question on the Order Paper, Back-Bench Members have to submit to the ballot process. Every day, hundreds and hundreds of MPs fail—in fact, we nearly always fail. However, just occasionally we have that little moment of joy when an email comes through saying, “Your question has been successful in the ballot”. I got two such emails for this week: one for Justice questions tomorrow, on screening for brain injury in prisons, which one would have thought was the direct responsibility of the Ministry of Justice; and one on Thursday one on artists’ resale rights. One would have thought that artists were a responsibility of the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport.

Unfortunately, both Departments have decided to transfer the questions, which means that I will not get an oral answer and I will not get an opportunity to ask a supplementary question. I do not know whether that is because they are frightened of answering questions from me, or whether they just want them shunted off to some other Department. Mr Deputy Speaker, can you confirm that Ministers should not be doing that, and that, on the whole, it is best just to let it happen once Members have got through the ballot process? Secondly, can you confirm either that Ministers can overturn the decisions and reinstate the questions for tomorrow and Thursday, or that Mr Speaker could choose to catch my eye—or the other way around?

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I thank the hon. Member for giving notice of his point of order. The transfer of questions, as he says, is a matter for Ministers not the Chair. I appreciate that Members may be disappointed to lose their slot—in this case, slots—at Question Time if their oral question is transferred. Where questions relate to matters for which more than one Minister is responsible, or where responsibility is ambiguous, I expect Ministers to be very cautious about transferring oral questions. The Table Office is always able to provide advice to Members on these issues and I am sure that the Treasury Bench will again have heard what the hon. Member has had to say.

Points of Order

Debate between Nigel Evans and Chris Bryant

Tuesday 8th March 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I am grateful to the hon. Member for giving notice of her point of order. As the Speaker and the team from the Chair have said, we are not responsible for the content of contributions made by Ministers. However, her point has been heard on the Government Benches and, if an error has been made in this instance, I hope the Foreign Secretary will seek to correct it as quickly as possible.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

Further to that point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I was at the Foreign Affairs Committee yesterday when the Foreign Secretary made those allegations. She alleged that I had said things in the Third Reading debate on 1 May 2018. I did not take part in the debate on Third Reading in 2018, although in fact I did speak on that day, and if I say so myself it was a particularly fine speech—[Interruption.] Nobody else is going to say it, so I might as well.

The serious point here is twofold. First, the Foreign Secretary came to the Select Committee determined to say those things and had clearly not checked the basic facts before she came to the meeting, which would suggest a degree of deliberate recklessness about what she was going to say. Secondly, she then prayed in aid a document that she said she had in front of her, which was some notes from officials that had apparently been incorrectly written out. You will know, Mr Deputy Speaker, that the convention in this House is that if a Minister prays a document in aid, they must provide it to the House. Can you ensure that the Foreign Secretary provides those notes? I am concerned that somewhere in the Foreign Office there is a file on me that is full of lies and inaccuracies.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I thank the hon. Member for his point of order. I have no doubt whatsoever that the speech he gave was outstanding. However, as far as his other comments are concerned, the answer is the same: the Treasury Bench will have heard his comments and I hope that, if any errors have been made, the Foreign Secretary will correct them as quickly as possible.

Higher Education Reform

Debate between Nigel Evans and Chris Bryant

Thursday 24th February 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

I call Chris Bryant.

[Chris Bryant]

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I do not mind that you were taught by the hon. Member for Huddersfield (Mr Sheerman).

I am concerned about academics, because working in academia is pretty grinding at the moment. Academics are trying to run a business, trying to make the sums add up every year, trying to recruit the right students and the best students, and trying to meet all sorts of different quotas, while also trying to get on with their research. What in this package will really make the life of an academic an attractive one?

Points of Order

Debate between Nigel Evans and Chris Bryant

Thursday 24th February 2022 Commons Chamber

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

Further to that point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. The Prime Minister actually used the word “militarily” for the first time. I think that is a very significant change of policy.

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

I have nothing to add to my response to Dame Diana Johnson. The important thing for us now is to get on with the next debate and to hear the Prime Minister’s statement at 5 o’clock.

Acquired Brain Injury Bill

Debate between Nigel Evans and Chris Bryant

Friday 3rd December 2021 Commons Chamber

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

I hope it might be okay if I said a brief word, Mr Deputy Speaker. My Bill was only going to force the Government to have a strategy on acquired brain injury. As the Government are going to have such a strategy and I am very fond of the Minister who is going to be co-chairing a panel that is being set up, and as I know that the whole House would support this legislation, there does not seem any need for the legislation, so I am not going to move it.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I was incredibly generous; Christmas is coming and that was your early gift, Mr Bryant.

ASYLUM SEEKERS (PERMISSION TO WORK) BILL

Motion made, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

Points of Order

Debate between Nigel Evans and Chris Bryant

Tuesday 9th November 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I thank the right hon. Lady for her point of order and notice of it. I certainly have not been given any indication that any statements will be made, other than the one we have just had, but she has made her point very well, and Mr Speaker has made his views clearly known. Whenever that report is published, I hope there will be ample time for Parliament first to question Ministers on its contents.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker, you may not be aware, but as I understand it, the Government told the lobby this morning—but obviously not the House, as yet—that they intend, further to yesterday’s debate and last week’s proceedings, to table a motion, rescinding the decision to set up the special committee and approving the third report of the Select Committee on Standards on the conduct of Mr Owen Paterson, for debate some time next week. Have you had any notice that that is the Government’s intention, or of what day they intend to do that? Obviously we will not have a business statement this week. Is there any suggestion as to whether there will be a business of the House motion to enable that to happen, or how they are intending to do it?

If I may, I make a brief announcement from the Standards Committee, which might be helpful to the House. As part of our review of the code of conduct and its operation, we have decided today to commission a senior judicial figure to advise us on possible changes to the process. We have already taken advice today from Sir Stephen Irwin, who is chair of the Independent Expert Panel. We believe that our present practices guarantee a fair hearing, but we will always consider suggestions for improvements. I hope that is helpful for the House.

[Mr Mark Harper (Forest of Dean) (Con)]

Further to that point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker, I think it helpful, given that this issue is best done on a cross-party basis, to say, first, that I support and welcome what the Chair of the Standards Committee has just said about his Committee’s procedures. On the first matter he raised, Ministers in the debate yesterday gave an indication that they were not minded to deal with the issues that arose last week. So I deprecate the fact that again these things have been announced outside the House; they should be announced in the House.

We do not have a business statement this week. Notwithstanding that, if the Government intend to bring forward a motion next week to deal with the two matters—to enable the House to take a decision on the Standards Committee report, which is important, and to unpick the committee that should not exist and which the Chair no longer wishes to chair—that is welcome, but it should have been announced in the House in the usual way. I hope that Ministers are able to furnish Members, perhaps by way of written information, before we come back next week with the detail of how they wish to proceed. I think that would be welcomed by both sides of the House.

Points of Order

Debate between Nigel Evans and Chris Bryant

Monday 7th June 2021 Commons Chamber

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. This is not about the previous matter, and I have given you notice of the point I am about to raise.

As you know, “Erskine May” makes it very clear that any hon. Member visiting another hon. Member’s constituency on official business is required to notify that hon. Member. I know it sometimes sounds like we are being terribly pompous when we try to reassert that convention, but I think it is important that when Ministers in particular are coming to a constituency, they give full and proper notice that they are coming and explain why, not least because we are all friends here and we would all like to invite Ministers to visit our constituencies; we would like to welcome them fully and properly, especially in the Welsh valleys, and show off everything we have to show.

Unfortunately—I have notified the Member that I would raise this today—the Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government did not notify me until 6.53 pm the night before his visit to my constituency last week. He did not tell me where in my constituency he was coming to, nor why he was coming or what he was going to look at, so I was not able to offer him tea and Welsh cakes or show him the things that we in the Rhondda would like to show him, so that we can get some money out of the shared prosperity fund. I think this was a gross avoidance of the precise rule that is part of the “Ministerial Code”. I just hope that you, Mr Deputy Speaker, will be able to reinforce the importance of this common courtesy from hon. Member to hon. Member.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

There is nothing better than home-made Welsh cakes, Mr Bryant—

[Chris Bryant]

You haven’t eaten mine!

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

—and there is nothing pompous about the point of order you have raised. Thank you for giving notice of your intention to do so.

The document, “Rules of behaviour and courtesies in the House of Commons” deals with this exact matter. When a Member visits another Member’s constituency, except on a purely private visit—we all know what that entails—they should take reasonable steps in advance to tell the Member in whose constituency the visit is taking place. That guidance also states that

“failing to do so is regarded by colleagues as very discourteous.”

The guidance applies to Ministers as well as to other Members. Indeed, the “Ministerial Code” also states that

“Ministers intending to make an official visit within the United Kingdom must inform in advance, and in good time, the MPs whose constituencies are to be included within the itinerary.”

I trust that Ministers on the Treasury Bench will make sure that this is brought to their colleagues’ attention, but I should also make it clear that Mr Speaker and I expect all Members—not just Ministers—to inform their colleagues of such visits. Not to do so is discourteous.

Trade Bill

Debate between Nigel Evans and Chris Bryant

Consideration of Lords amendments
Tuesday 9th February 2021 Commons Chamber

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab) [V]]

This country should never trade with any country where genocide is being practised. We are as guilty as others when we seek to perpetuate that kind of trade. It is appalling that all five signs of genocide incorporated in the genocide convention are now present in China in Xinjiang province, and that President Xi is personally implicated.

It is no use us clasping our pearls, signing holocaust memorial books or weeping about genocide in the 1930s if we are not prepared to do every single thing that we possibly can today to protect the vulnerable. That means wielding every single instrument, national and international, commercial and diplomatic, to protect the victims of abuse. We failed for far too long because we delayed in the 1930s and ended up having to go to war. Their humanity is our humanity; we are involved in their lives and in their deaths.

China already makes it impossible for us to act in an international court or any international body, so of course we should use the UK courts. I say to the Chair of the Justice Committee that Lord Hope of Craighead made it absolutely clear that a preliminary determination of genocide should be located within the High Court precisely because it is not a criminal process. That is the whole point of the amendment. It should be the courts, not politicians, that make these decisions because they know how to sift evidence and are able to require witnesses and evidence to be brought before them.

I saw the amendment that has been presented, supposedly by the Chair of the Justice Committee, last week; it was very definitely a Government amendment long before it appeared on the Order Paper. It is as tawdry a piece of parliamentary jiggery-pokery as I have seen in my 20 years in the House. Select Committees already have every single one of the powers that are supposedly being given to us by the amendment. The Government already dismisses every single substantive motion agreed by the House if they just do not like it. They did so on the Yazidis, when the House’s view was unanimous, and they did so on the Foreign Affairs Committee reports on the Rohingya.

By constructing the amendment in the way they have, the Government have deliberately denied the House a clear vote on genocide and how we would like to tackle it in relation to trade. The bottom line is that the Government seem to do everything in their power to prevent us as a nation from standing clearly and unambiguously against human rights abuses in China, and up with this we will not put.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

To finish no later than 5.31 pm, I call Katherine Fletcher.

Public Health

Debate between Nigel Evans and Chris Bryant

Tuesday 1st December 2020 Commons Chamber

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

I start from the fundamental principle that we do need restrictions across the country in some shape or form. I remember earlier in the year being howled at by various lunatic journalists who told me angrily that the idea that we would ever get to 200 deaths a day this autumn was preposterous and based on false science. Well, we have seen 400, 500 and, on occasion, 600 deaths a day, so we have to take these matters seriously.

As Advent always leads to Christmas, and as Christmas always leads to Epiphany, so lower restrictions always lead to higher transmission rates, and higher transmission rates always lead to problems for the local NHS. That is true in every country in the world; there is no way of avoiding it. Government Members would be daft to listen to the blandishments that they have heard from the Prime Minister over the last couple of days. I would bet that not a single area goes from tier 2 to tier 1 before Christmas, simply because tier 2 does not work—it does not bring the numbers down. There might be some areas that go from tier 3 to tier 2, but there will not be any that go from tier 2 to tier 1, and the Government know it.

There will not be any more nuanced rules and granularity when it comes to the second week of December or the end of February. One thing that has been really difficult for businesses in the hospitality industry is that they are endlessly being told to switch on and switch off. Someone who runs a pub buys in the beer and then has to pour it all down the drain. Incidentally, they are not allowed to pour it down the drain any more. They have to make special provision for it, and that does not mean bringing all their friends round and drinking it. There is a real problem in the brewing industry, and every time we switch on and switch off, it makes this all the more difficult.

I say to the Prime Minister: stop with the metaphors—I am sick and tired of them—and no more over-promising, because when he under-delivers on those promises, it means that the nation stops believing in him. Let us also not be parochial. I am sorry to say to the hon. Member for Bosworth (Dr Evans) that he was being precisely nimbyish. He was saying that he does not want Leicester in his backyard—that is nimbyism. The truth is that we are all in this together, and we have to take this forward as a national enterprise, not a parochial one.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I call Steve Brine.

Points of Order

Debate between Nigel Evans and Chris Bryant

Tuesday 14th July 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

I thank the hon. Member for his point of order. Clearly, that will be a matter for the Secretary of State. We still have a few days before we go into the recess. However, I re-emphasise the response I gave on behalf of the Speaker and the other occupants of this Chair to the hon. Member for Twickenham (Munira Wilson) at the beginning.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

Further to that point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Now that you are being so effective, I raised with you last week the issue of how important it would be for many of us to be able to raise constituency issues in Westminster Hall, and I just wondered whether you have got anywhere yet.

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

Not at this moment in time. However, I am really hopeful that, as we go into September, after the recess, sufficient progress will have been made that we can then start to normalise the proceedings in this Chamber. I fully appreciate that the way that we are currently operating is not how we would all like it to be, but we have to do this at a rate of progress that is safe for all Members and staff here. I do hope that we will make sufficient progress.

Point of Order

Debate between Nigel Evans and Chris Bryant

Thursday 9th July 2020 Commons Chamber

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. This has been a really important hour and a bit. In many ways, this could easily have been a three-hour debate in Westminster Hall, if that were in operation. Of course, many of these stories came to be part of a campaign in Parliament by way of Adjournment debates, Opposition day debates and debates in Westminster Hall. It is not in your power, Mr Deputy Speaker, to get Westminster Hall up and running on Monday, I am sure, but I wonder whether you could feed through into the system that many of us would love to have similar opportunities as soon as possible to raise all the campaigning issues coming out of our constituencies, some of them medical, some of them on many other aspects. If we could get it back up and running, instead of just the four end-of-day Adjournment debates, it would make it much easier for us Back Benchers to do our job.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

This has been one of the most significant statements I have witnessed. When I first entered the House in 1992, we did not have Westminster Hall, and I know that since its introduction it has added to the democracy of Parliament. I will make certain that the hon. Member’s words are passed on to the Leader of the House and the Speaker in order that we can get the House fully operational as soon as it is safe to do so. I thank him for his point of order.

Business of the House

Debate between Nigel Evans and Chris Bryant

Thursday 4th June 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I inform the House that I intend to move on to the next business immediately, and then we will have a five-minute break before the following business.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

And a point of order.

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

And a point of order.

If necessary, if the next business is objected to, we will be counting Members in all parts of the House, including upstairs in the Galleries.

I now call the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael) to propose a debate on a specific and important matter that should have urgent consideration under the terms of Standing Order No. 24. He has three minutes in which to make such an application.

Points of Order

Debate between Nigel Evans and Chris Bryant

Thursday 4th June 2020 Commons Chamber

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I will take the point of order, but will those leaving the Chamber please be very careful to respect social distancing.

[Chris Bryant]

I am very grateful, Mr Deputy Speaker. As nanny would say, the Leader of the House has been a very naughty boy. He knows perfectly well that all I have been trying to do this week is to make sure that Members who have to shield or are shielding other members of their household—or, for that matter, those who have childcare responsibilities that make it very difficult for them to come to Parliament—should be able to continue to participate both in debates and questions and to participate in votes. He knows perfectly well that that is what I have been trying to do for the last three days, so I take it ill that he should choose to misrepresent my views.

There are two motions on the Order Paper today in the name of the Leader of the House, and they have two different ideas of who should be allowed to participate: two different ways of determining who is allowed to participate by proxy voting and who is allowed to take part remotely in questions and statements in the House. The Prime Minister said yesterday, in answer to a question in the press conference, that

“obviously employers have to be reasonable and if someone can’t get childcare then that is clearly a reason for them not to be able to go back to work.”

I still do not understand why the Prime Minister applies that to the whole of the country, but not to Parliament.

I have tabled an amendment to the second motion, which relates to being able to participate in debates. I understand that, if we were to get to the moment of interruption and I had not withdrawn that amendment, the motion would not be able to go forward and people would not be able to take part next week. I have no desire to prevent that; I want to make sure that everybody can participate fully. I think the vast majority of the country would like that, and actually the vast majority of the House as well, so I will be withdrawing my amendment.

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for clarifying that he is now withdrawing his amendment. On the first part of his point of order, I know that the Leader of the House has respect for the Chair, but I suspect that he has more attention towards nanny. I shall therefore make every endeavour to ensure that the Leader of the House and nanny are made aware of the first part of the point of order.

Parliamentary Constituencies Bill

Debate between Nigel Evans and Chris Bryant

2nd reading & 2nd reading: House of Commons & Money resolution & Money resolution: House of Commons & Programme motion & Programme motion: House of Commons
Tuesday 2nd June 2020 Commons Chamber

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I am afraid there are three parts to this, the first of which relates to the voting we have already done. I was a Teller in one of the earlier Divisions this afternoon. It is up to others to judge quite how ludicrous the whole process looks to the outside world, but to my mind it looks preposterous. I feel that one of the oldest Parliaments in the world should be the best and most able to adapt to modern circumstances, not the worst, but that is a battle for another day. There were some specific order issues during those Divisions, with one being that the Speaker adopted a new version of what we had to wear when voting. I just wonder whether we could have some clarity on that for the future, as, historically, people, including some Whips, have been able to vote in the Lobby when they have been to the gym.

Secondly, one Member tried, during one of the Divisions, to vote in both directions. I know that historically that has not been allowed, but the Member is certainly under the belief that that was recorded. As I understand it—I was one of the Tellers—we were not including that as one of the votes on either side, so it would be good to have some clarity on that.

The other point is that the Leader of the House said earlier in today’s debate that we were going to have a motion on the Order Paper tomorrow for us to debate enabling some Members of the House to participate not, I think, in debates, but in urgent questions, questions and statements. Obviously, I would welcome that, but as I understand it the Government have not so far announced what kind of debate it will be, whether any time will be allocated for it tomorrow, whether it is expected that this should be agreed to on nod or nothing, whether we are able to table amendments, or whether we have to submit to be able to take part in that debate. There are many of us who feel deeply concerned that the Government have tabled a motion that suggests the only people who will be able to participate are those who self-certify as having a medical need. I do not think that disabled people, or people who are shielding or have shielding responsibilities for others, should be treated in that way. I do not think that they should have to justify themselves for wanting to participate from a distance. In particular, parents who have childcare responsibilities should certainly not have to claim that there is some kind of medical reason. Some of us would therefore like to have a full debate.

I am sorry that that is a long point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker, but you are a very indulgent man.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Thank you very much, Mr Bryant. As far as the first point is concerned, you said it was a battle for another day and clearly it will be. On the dress code during a Division, you are absolutely right. In the past, people have come straight from the gym and worn what they were in when the Division Bell rang. I will ensure that that gets raised tomorrow, so that clarity is brought to how people should dress when there is a Division, as I will on voting both ways. We do not have the opportunity to abstain or, for whatever reason—we can only hazard a guess as to why people do it—vote both ways.

As far as the motion tomorrow is concerned, I have not seen that motion yet, but you have raised several points as to why people would want to at least make known their anger, one way or another, as to what may or may not happen in that motion. I hope that Members will get an opportunity to at least express their views, however that motion is brought forward. I hope that is okay. [Interruption.] Thank you very much, Mr Bryant. The thumbs up will do me fine.

Points of Order

Debate between Nigel Evans and Chris Bryant

Thursday 19th March 2020 Commons Chamber

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

Further to that point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. One key aspect of the 2004 Act is that the use of powers has to be approved by Parliament within seven days and the powers can last for only 30 days before they have to be renewed by Parliament. Indeed, the Act contains specific measures to ensure that the House sits if we are in recess or even if we are prorogued. So could you feed that into the process of answering the right hon. Gentleman?

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

It seems to me that both points of order are supplementary business questions, but the Leader of the House is still in his place and will have heard both points of order, and I am sure that those on the Treasury Bench will reflect on what both Members have said today.

Point of Order

Debate between Nigel Evans and Chris Bryant

Monday 9th March 2020 Commons Chamber

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. There have been several references today, including from the Secretary of State, quite rightly, to the House of Commons Commission meeting that was held earlier, jointly with the House of Lords Commission. Many of us are meant to have visits in Parliament from schools in the next couple of weeks, as well as from international delegations; I think there is one group coming from Croatia next Monday. It would be helpful if there were a means of the Commission updating the House and perhaps answering questions, and I wonder how that might be achieved.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I thank the hon. Member for his point of order. I know that this issue is being discussed on a daily basis and taken very seriously, but I also know that Members have constituents or delegations coming here—some of them travelling many miles—and they will want to be informed. I do not sit on the Commission, so I do not know how the deliberations went this morning, but I will ensure that his request is passed on to the Speaker when he gets back.

Bills Presented

Hate Crime (Misogyny)

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Wera Hobhouse, supported by Sarah Olney, Christine Jardine, Layla Moran, Munira Wilson, Wendy Chamberlain and Stella Creasy, presented a Bill to make motivation by misogyny an aggravating factor in criminal sentencing; to require police forces to record hate crimes motivated by misogyny; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 10 July, and to be printed (Bill 107).

Hate Crime (Misandry and Misogyny)

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Mr Philip Hollobone presented a Bill to make motivation by misandry or misogyny an aggravating factor in criminal sentencing; to require police forces to record hate crimes motivated by misandry or misogyny; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 10 July, and to be printed (Bill 108).