Turing Scheme

Robert Halfon Excerpts

Tuesday 5th September 2023 Westminster Hall

[The Minister for Skills, Apprenticeships and Higher Education (Robert Halfon)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Betts. I congratulate the hon. Member for North East Fife (Wendy Chamberlain) on securing this important debate. I share her passion for international placements. I do not accept completely the picture that she set out. I am not saying the Turing scheme is perfect, but I am proud of it and am working hard in the Department to ensure that it is a success, and I want to set out the good things that it is doing. I will try to answer some of the points she raised, and I will be happy to write to her after the debate about those that I do not answer.

The Turing scheme is a global programme for students to study and work abroad. It provides students, learners and pupils across the UK with the chance to gain vital international experience and to boost their employability. It is worth remembering that the scheme is named after Alan Turing, who taught and studied internationally. Participants can develop a wide range of soft skills, language skills and a better understanding of other cultures.

The hon. Lady may recall that my predecessor announced the second opening of applications for the Turing scheme at the University of St Andrews in her constituency. It is a beautiful university; I went there many years ago on a visit. I am sure that she will be as pleased as I am that St Andrews has been successful in its application to the scheme for the third year running, and that organisations right across Scotland have been awarded funding for almost 4,000 participants, nearly 600 more than last year.

[Carol Monaghan]

The Minister talks about the funding that has been allocated, but a recent Financial Times report stated that universities that applied to the scheme received only 35% to 45% of the money they felt they required to support their students.

[Robert Halfon]

I will set this out further, but the hon. Lady, for whom I have huge respect, will know that the Turing scheme is not just for university students; we have expanded it significantly for students in future education and in schools. If we look at it in the round, as I said, organisations across Scotland have had funding for almost 4,000 participants, nearly 600 more than the previous year.

My three objectives for the Turing scheme are, in essence, social justice, enhancing skills and securing value for money. I am sure that the hon. Members for North East Fife and for Glasgow North West (Carol Monaghan) will know that the Turing scheme is extending the ladder of opportunity for over 40,000 students and learners across the UK to spend time studying or working abroad, 60% of whom will be from an under-represented or less advantaged background. The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) is no longer in his place, but there is more money for living costs and additional costs, such as for passports. I have met people in my own constituency from disadvantaged backgrounds who have benefited from the Turing scheme, and they are not from universities; they are from FE.

There is good evidence, as we know, that time spent studying or working abroad can be transformational for students, improving graduate outcomes and employability and building skills and confidence. Universities UK says—the hon. Member for North East Fife will agree with this—that graduates who participated in an international placement are less likely to be unemployed, more likely to have achieved a first or 2:1, and more likely to be in further study. Those in work are more likely to be in a graduate-level job, and on average they earn 5% more than their peers.

I see the Turing scheme as a remarkable vehicle for helping to improve the skills pipeline and helping people into high-quality jobs. Universities, colleges and schools will share almost £105 million of funding to offer placements to their students. No matter what kind of course students are on, whether they are studying for a degree in foreign languages, doing a T-level or an apprenticeship—the scheme was not open to apprentices before—or a school pupil, opportunities made possible through the Turing scheme can have a hugely positive impact on their studies and their skills development.

[Layla Moran]

Will the Minister give way?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)]

Will the Minister give way?

[Robert Halfon]

I will in a moment; because of the time, I want to get on a bit and try to answer some of the questions from the hon. Member for North East Fife.

This year saw significantly higher interest in the scheme from colleges and schools, including a nearly 50% increase in the number of successful applications in the further education sector. I think that technical education and training routes should have parity of prestige with academic routes, and I want to see even more FE learners and apprentices offered Turing scheme opportunities.

[Layla Moran]

I do not disagree with anything the Minister says—40,000 students is wonderful—but we cannot help but make a comparison with Erasmus+, from which 55,000 students were able to benefit. We have heard about the impact on the wider economy and, as he says, students’ ability to access better degrees and a better life outcome. Has the Department looked at how much money we have potentially lost as a result of the lower number of students engaging in such activity?

[Robert Halfon]

Actually, the number of students is comparable, and it is a new scheme. It is also worth remembering that the Erasmus scheme is not value for money. The UK was putting way more taxpayer money into the scheme than we got out of it. The Erasmus+ scheme was also available for teachers to go overseas. We have decided to focus on students, which I think is a very good thing.

[Mr Carmichael]

On the subject of those who can access study here, I invite the Minister to address the point raised by my hon. Friend the Member for North East Fife (Wendy Chamberlain) in relation to those studying medicine and veterinary medicine. Such is the nature of teaching in modern courses that those are almost entirely clinically based. Does the Minister not understand that—I suspect the problem lies with the Home Office rather than his Department—exclusions around the facility to teach in fact exclude those students from any international exchange of this sort?

[Robert Halfon]

Obviously, visas are a matter for the Home Office, as the right hon. Gentleman recognises. We are expanding medical places and we have international students in our medical schools. We have expanded hugely, as per recent announcements, the number of nurses, doctors and doctor apprenticeships. That is different from the Turing scheme, which is about ensuring that students from this country—from FE and apprenticeship backgrounds as well as universities—can go abroad and take part in that important scheme. Previously, 50% of students from disadvantaged backgrounds had access to these schemes; I have increased that to 60%, because I want more disadvantaged people to benefit. The scheme provides enhanced funding for students who need it, as I have mentioned.

It is also my aim to ensure that the Turing scheme is value for money. It was introduced because a fair and proportionate deal could not be found for our continued participation in Erasmus+. It was designed from the start to deliver an improved benefit to the UK taxpayer. As I have said, it was right to prioritise funding for students, learners and pupils at UK organisations rather than non-educational placements for staff or inbound placements in the UK for students in other countries. I do not think taxpayers’ money should be taken for granted because of the competitive annual application process of the Turing scheme. High-quality, deliverable and impactful international placements that improve skills and employability are essential to both the learners and the taxpayer.

I know that the Turing scheme draws comparisons with its predecessor, Erasmus. Direct comparison between the Erasmus+ programme and the Turing scheme is not possible, given that European Commission data for Erasmus+ does not specify the number of student participants for education sectors other than higher education. Although Erasmus+ included some staff mobility, the Turing scheme, as I have said, is focused on student placements. We can be confident that the Turing scheme is expanding opportunities for UK students. This goes back to the point made by the hon. Member for Oxford West and Abingdon (Layla Moran). Erasmus+ participant numbers for higher education ranged from just under 16,000 to just over 17,000 each year from 2015 to 2020. The Turing scheme is funding over 22,000 students this year, and it funded more than 23,000 HE placements last year and around 28,000 in 2021-22. The schemes operate very differently.

On the funding delays, I am working hard to ensure that students do not have the difficulties that the hon. Member for North East Fife highlighted. I am happy to look at the individual case that she mentioned. Education providers have had to make some complex changes to their projects within the allocated funding, because we had to reduce their requested allocation in order to manage the high demand in the ’23-24 Turing scheme. There have been issues in navigating the new processes for payment requests. Capita has offered webinars and one-to-one support where needed to help education providers understand the process, and I am working closely with Capita to collect and act on feedback from the sector to ensure the scheme works as it should for all students. Applicants were informed of their application outcomes on 3 July. We are working to bring that date forward in future years, so that there are not the difficulties that the hon. Lady highlighted.

In conclusion, we will of course carry on evolving the scheme and making improvements, including by expanding opportunities for apprentices, which I care about deeply. I cannot confirm funding well in advance—as the hon. Lady will know, funding is always confirmed ahead of the next fiscal event—but the sector should embrace the Turing scheme, as it has done by submitting competitive bids, adapting its approach to delivering international mobility, and maximising opportunities for less advantaged and unrepresented students.

[Wendy Chamberlain]

Will the Minister give way one more time?

[Robert Halfon]

Very briefly, because I want to conclude.

[Wendy Chamberlain]

I am grateful to the Minister for outlining some of the strategic challenges, but it is very difficult for institutions to think about embracing a scheme when they have no certainty of its long-term future.

[Robert Halfon]

I guarantee that the Turing scheme has a long-term future. I am not the guy from the Treasury and I cannot say how much it will be funded each year, but it will be funded properly and well, and we are determined that it will be a great success and that we will iron out some of the problems that she rightly highlighted. I am not saying that there have not been difficulties. I want to try to make it work.

The Turing scheme is a relatively new, demand-led scheme that was introduced at considerable pace. It has been shown to be a success and a remarkable skills development and career opportunity for people across the UK. I believe it will increase skills, enhance social justice and ensure good jobs for participants. I am pleased to be here today to champion the scheme and I look forward to working with higher education, further education, apprenticeship bodies and apprentices to realise its potential and enable students around the country to benefit from it regardless of their background. As I said, I have increased from 50% to 60% the proportion of students from disadvantaged backgrounds who will benefit from the Turing scheme. That is right, because we should ensure that the most disadvantaged can benefit from this brilliant opportunity. I sincerely hope that Turing scheme alumni are proud to have participated and recognise that having done so will stand them in good stead for their current studies and their future careers.

Question put and agreed to.