Aerospace Industry

Debate between Sammy Wilson and Gerald Howarth

Tuesday 2nd September 2014 Westminster Hall

[Sir Gerald Howarth (Aldershot) (Con)]

It is a delight to participate in the debate under your chairmanship, Mr Hollobone, and to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Worcestershire (Sir Peter Luff), who was my colleague at the Ministry of Defence. He has done us all a great favour in raising the debate, which follows a debate we had on 22 November 2012. Many of the key points that have surfaced in today’s debate were also mentioned then. I share his recollection of the Viscount flying over Windsor because I was at school at Haileybury and Imperial Service College junior school in Windsor. Indeed, I used to fly on the Viscount 700 from the then new Heathrow airport to my home in Hamburg in Germany.

I also share an appreciation of the Farnborough air show, which takes place in my constituency. Those present who did not attend the Farnborough air show need to report to my study afterwards to explain why, because the whole world comes to Farnborough. Interestingly, this year the air show was responsible for the signing of a record number of orders for new aircraft and systems. About $83 billion of business was done at the last air show; this year $200 billion of business was signed at Farnborough. It is hugely important to the British economy and to our industry.

Farnborough is home to BAE Systems, the world’s fourth largest defence contractor, and QinetiQ, which is one of the world’s leading research companies. QinetiQ holds more than 1,500 patents, 1,000 patents pending and has 1,000 defence contracts at any one time. Farnborough also has the headquarters of AgustaWestland International. Its senior vice-president in charge of international business is no less than our former colleague Geoff Hoon, with whom I get on extremely well. He is doing a great job promoting the interests of Westland around the world. I also have a lot of smaller companies in my constituency, such as Cam Lock, which makes face masks for every US naval fast jet in operation and for the Royal Air Force. I have EWST, which makes electronic warfare testing equipment. I have Sonardyne, which makes detection equipment. A huge amount goes on in my constituency, and I hope hon. Members will understand why I am keen to take part in the debate.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Worcestershire said, aerospace is a hugely successful business in the United Kingdom. We are world leaders. We have the second largest aerospace industry in the world and the biggest in Europe. We have 17% of the world market. The UK industry is split 50:50 between civilian and military. It employs 109,000 people directly and 120,000 indirectly. It is a massive contributor to manufacturing industry. Everyone is talking about the importance of the manufacturing industry for this country, but we have in our midst the world’s second most successful manufacturing industry. Let us go out there and promote it. It is not just BAE Systems, QinetiQ or Rolls-Royce, but a whole string of companies, whose names I cannot exhaust. I will single out a few: MBDA, which stands for Matra BAE Dynamics Alenia; Cobham; Marshall; Babcock; Serco; Martin-Baker; and Bombardier—formerly Short Brothers. I have seen some of the fantastic work that goes on in Northern Ireland, which is world leading in missile technology.

Aerospace manufacturing is done across the kingdom, including in Scotland, which I hope will remain part of the kingdom. As the son of a Scottish borderer, I am going to Scotland on 15 September—battle of Britain day—to fight for the maintenance of the Union of the United Kingdom.

We have hundreds of SMEs—another success story. In 2008 there were 380 enterprises engaged in this industry, according to the Library’s very helpful brief. Today that figure is 560. This industry is growing, and it provides prosperity to the United Kingdom. That is critically important. Interestingly, the 2009 Oxford Economics paper states:

“A £100 million investment in the defence industry generates an increase in gross output of £227 million, and increases Exchequer revenues by £11.5 million.”

[Sammy Wilson]

Northern Ireland is the ninth biggest European region for the aerospace industry and we therefore greatly feel the pressures. Does the hon. Gentleman accept that there are great pressures on the industry because of the high exchange rate, the difficulty in getting finance from banks—and the effect that has had, especially on the small and medium-sized enterprise supply chain—and the anti-competitive practices in other countries, where certain firms are given advantages that we do not have in the United Kingdom?

[Sir Gerald Howarth]

The hon. Gentleman makes a good point about having one hand tied behind our back. Our businesses are not hugely helped by the anti-corruption legislation that we have put in place, which other countries do not sign up to as readily as we do. In fairness, I acknowledge the huge importance of Northern Ireland in the wider United Kingdom aerospace business: it is an integral part, not an add-on.

The aerospace industry contributes two things. First, there is the prosperity, which I have illustrated. Secondly, it provides us with the sovereign capability to defend ourselves. That is critically important. We can all see what is currently going on around the world. It is devastating for those of us who have been around a bit. Things have never looked so uncertain, volatile and frightening. We need to remember that we have taken our defence for granted. In much of it, we are assisted by the United States of America, its massive spending programme and its lynchpin role in NATO. In the United Kingdom we have the ability to defend ourselves. We are not reliant on other people, who might withhold technology or equipment. We must be able to generate such things in the United Kingdom.

When my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Worcestershire and I were in the MOD we had a battle about whether we should have a defence industrial strategy, and whether maintaining a sovereign capability in the United Kingdom should be a key Government policy. He and I were on the same side. It is common knowledge that some of my colleagues in the Conservative party took the view we should not have any kind of industrial policy. They felt that was interventionist and socialist. I do not accept that. The Government have a responsibility for the defence of the realm. That is the first duty of Government. We have responsibility to ensure we have the means to protect ourselves. Two years ago I paid tribute to Lord Drayson, who produced the defence industrial strategy, and I do so again. It is one of best, most articulate and clearest documents to be produced on this matter. As Lord Drayson said, we have to remember that today’s kit is the result of yesterday’s investment. Therefore, we have to invest today.

I congratulate the Government on what they have done on the aerospace growth partnership and the defence growth partnership. There has been a genuine partnership, with industry and the Government working together. That is the sort of thing we need to do and I warmly welcome it. Industry is also doing well on the skills front. BAE Systems has a huge investment in taking on young people and giving them skills. Leo Quinn, the chief executive of QinetiQ in my constituency, is seriously concerned about the promotion of skills. As my hon. Friends the Member for Mid Worcestershire and for Burnley (Gordon Birtwistle) said, we need to do more to promote the merit, mobility, importance and excitement of the manufacturing industry, particularly in the field of aerospace and defence.

We should, however, be concerned, because the order book of BAE Systems is declining. It stands at £40 billion and that is a massive figure, but it is falling, and we know the pressure that defence budgets are under around the world. There is increasing competition from other countries. We have promoted defence exports—and the Prime Minister has been magnificent in giving a lead on that—but it is not possible to sell anything nowadays without being prepared to transfer the technology. We face a growing challenge from India and China, who want to take their place in this important marketplace. If we will have to transfer our technology every time we seek to sell the Typhoon or other important military equipment, what is there for the United Kingdom? How are we going to feed our people? That is where innovation comes in. That is where investment in technology, and defence research in particular, comes in. I could not agree more with the comment by my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Worcestershire that innovation underpins growth. I have made a note that the only way we can compete is by innovation. We are all on the same page with that.

The Government have a role to play. Unfortunately, there has been a fall in defence research by the Ministry of Defence. The latest figures are not encouraging. In 1990-91 the Government spent, at 2012-13 prices, pretty well £4 billion on defence research. That figure fell to £1.8 billion in 2010-11. Fortunately, industry seems to be spending more. According to KPMG, 75% of respondents to a survey said that they would spend between 2% and 3% of revenues on research and development in the next two years; 16% said they would spend between 4% and 5%. If we are to maintain our position in the world we must do that. We must also decide where we go after the joint strike fighter. I have been visiting BAE Systems at Warton for many years. When I used to go there 20 or 30 years ago, I would always be told “We are okay for the next five or 10 years, and then there is a cliff edge.” The Typhoon came along, and now we have JSF—but where do we go after that? I do not believe that manned fighter aircraft can simply be consigned to the dustbin of history. Manned flight still has a critical role to play, particularly in situation awareness.

I welcome what the Government and BAE Systems are doing with Taranis, which is an ITAR-free programme that I launched to the press, who were not allowed to come within 50 yards of it, I am pleased to say. However, we need to maintain the technology. Taranis is a great technology demonstrator. We need more technology demonstrators and we also need a proper debate on where the industry will go, post-JSF.

High Court Judgment (John Downey)

Debate between Sammy Wilson and Gerald Howarth

Thursday 27th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Sir Gerald Howarth (Aldershot) (Con)]

I am pleased to be able to take part in the debate, and congratulate all who were responsible on arranging it. This issue is important and incredibly sensitive, and we should all approach it with care and consideration. The tenor of the debate has been very much in that spirit so far, and I warmly welcome it.

Let me associate myself particularly with the remarks addressed by my hon. Friend the Member for Amber Valley (Nigel Mills) to the families of those who were murdered in cold blood in Hyde park on that terrible day. That was one of a number of outrageous attacks on Britain’s armed forces, who did their level best for 38 years— under Operation Banner, the longest military operation in British history—to bring peace to Northern Ireland. I pay tribute to my right hon. and gallant Friend the Member for South Leicestershire (Mr Robathan) —who was here a moment ago—and to my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart), who was also present earlier. During the troubles, 3,500 people were killed, and about 1,000 of them were members of Her Majesty’s armed forces.

I will touch only briefly on the current case, as I want to concentrate on its implications. Having reflected since this case hit the headlines, I think that there probably had to be a scheme of some sort to try to deal with the on-the-runs, and there was inevitably going to be a messy outcome. I have listened carefully to the remarks of the right hon. Member for Belfast North (Mr Dodds) and others, but I note that in a written answer on 1 July 2002 Mr Quentin Davies—then a Conservative Member, but now, of course, on the other side having taken the Labour Whip and thereby getting a passport to the other place—asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland

“if he will make a statement on his plans to inform persons suspected of involvement in terrorist activities that their cases will not be pursued.”

Dr John Reid, now Lord Reid, answered:

“We are still considering how best to implement the proposals which we and the Irish Government made in relation to this following the Weston Park talks.”—[Official Report, 1 July 2002; Vol. 388, c. 136W.]

He answered another question as follows:

“As a result of inquiries received and referred to the prosecuting authorities and the police, 32 individuals have been informed over the past two years that they are not wanted for arrest in relation to terrorist offences. —[Official Report, 1 July 2002; Vol. 388, c. 137W.]

That is by no means an open statement explaining a specific scheme, but clearly it did indicate that something was afoot. I do not think one can argue that Parliament was not informed; it was, through the medium of the written answer to a parliamentary question. We are busy people, however, and we face a torrent of e-mails and information from all sides, and I think it is unfortunate that it was not possible to make a more explicit statement to the House of Commons and Parliament more generally about what the Government were planning to do.

It is clearly the case that, as the hon. Member for Belfast East (Naomi Long) said, a lot of people have had to swallow hard and hold their noses about some of the decisions that were made, and she mentioned how hard she found it to accept the early release scheme, but she also made another point: that this scheme, which was not fully explained to Parliament but clearly was in evidence, arose out of discussions between the British Government and the Irish Government. She also made the point that there appears to have been no such arrangement in respect of anyone other than those suspected of republican terrorism. That raises fundamental questions that I am sure my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland will want to address. I am encouraged, however, by what she said at the Dispatch Box earlier in our debate, and she has put in her written ministerial statements that these letters were not intended to be an indemnity; they were not intended to be “get out of jail free” cards. I hope that message will be clearly got through to all those involved in this.

As I am sure the House recognises, as the Member of Parliament for the home of the British Army, Aldershot, which also formerly was for 50 years the home of the Parachute Regiment, I have a special interest in these matters, and it is on behalf of those of my constituents who were in Londonderry on that tragic day of 30 January 1972 that I seek to speak. At this point I would like to pay tribute to the former Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, the right hon. Member for St Helens South and Whiston (Mr Woodward), who is present today. I took a delegation of former soldiers to see him when he was Secretary of State and they and I could not have been more courteously and properly received by him. That is not to say he took their side, but it is to say that I thought he was extremely professional and extremely fair, and I thank him very much for that. I think this is the first opportunity I have had to say that publicly, although I did have the opportunity of saying it to him over a cup of coffee this morning.

We are considering today the implications of the John Downey case, however, as much as who knew what and when, and what the letters mean and so forth. For me the implications are that that raises again the issue of the treatment of the soldiers who were in Londonderry on 30 January 1972. I understand that that has been exacerbated by a decision taken by the Police Service of Northern Ireland to erect posters in Londonderry—I have not been there, but I am told this is the case—appealing for witnesses to come forward to provide evidence about that tragedy. We are talking about an event that took place 42 years ago, and it is astonishing for the PSNI to be appealing for witnesses now, not just 42 years later, but, indeed, four years after the Prime Minister made that memorable statement early in his premiership to the House in June 2010.

I have constituents who are now in their 70s and 80s who were there. They had to go through 12 years of the Saville inquiry, costing £200 million, and they had hoped that the Saville inquiry would draw a line under this, but now they find that not only is the matter not concluded, but the police deem it their business to put up these posters inviting people to give evidence. What on earth have they been doing over the past four years—leave aside the previous 38 years—to obtain that evidence?

The Prime Minister made it clear that the prosecuting authorities in Northern Ireland are entirely independent of any political process. Therefore, this is entirely a matter for the PSNI. It is astonishing that it feels the need to do this now, and I say that to make this point, too: it is the PSNI who are responsible for the whole disaster of the John Downey case in the first place. It was they who, in the vernacular, screwed up and failed to provide the Northern Ireland Office with information about what the Metropolitan police were looking for. My constituents are now invited to have confidence in an inquiry carried out by people who completely screwed up in the John Downey case.

[Sammy Wilson]

When the hon. Gentleman makes these allegations, perhaps he should bear in mind who issued these letters, who initiated the process, and which Government continued the process. Indeed, his own Secretary of State has issued 43 of these letters since the current Government came to office. If there has been a screw-up, surely it was a screw-up on behalf of the politicians, who continued to operate what they knew was a secret and dirty deal.