Detainees

Debate between John Bercow and Kevan Jones

Thursday 18th July 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Musings and commentary are not required. Single-sentence questions and pithy replies are.

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

I welcome the statement and note that a lot of the recommendations of our ISC report have been adopted, although I have to say to my right hon. Friend the Member for Islington South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry) on the Front Bench that a judge-led inquiry was not one of them. The important thing is the five-year review. Will the right hon. Gentleman ensure that when it happens, it is made fully public?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between John Bercow and Kevan Jones

Monday 8th July 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Ah! Tweedledum and Tweedledee. Or, as one might say, R2-D2 and C-3PO.

[Mr Jones]

The Secretary of State highlighted in an earlier answer the importance of the prosperity agenda for defence contracts. I know that the Minister has read the recent report on shipbuilding and ship procurement in the UK by the all-party parliamentary group on shipbuilding. Will he tell the House what weighting will be given to prosperity in awarding the fleet solid support contracts?

[Stuart Andrew]

I was looking at the two right hon. Gentlemen and wondering whether it was more like Waldorf and Statler, but I will not be so rude—although I have just have been. The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right: when we look at the contracts, not just for the shipbuilding but for the content within, there are huge opportunities for the UK supply chain, where much more of the value exists. I recognised that in his all-party group’s recent report, and his and other right hon. and hon. Members’ work will inform much of the decision making on our future policy.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between John Bercow and Kevan Jones

Monday 18th February 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

What?

[Mr Speaker]

Well, the Minister is going to pursue it with the Prisons Minister.

[Mr Jones]

It is stupid.

[Mr Speaker]

Well, the right hon. Gentleman can make his own assessment.

Budget Resolutions

Debate between John Bercow and Kevan Jones

Wednesday 31st October 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I do not want to interrupt the right hon. Gentleman’s leadership speech, but this is supposed to be a debate. He referred to something that I said earlier in the debate and would not let me come back on it. Is that in order?

[Mr Speaker]

I do not think the Chair is the arbiter of normality. Sometimes the Member on his or her feet gives way, and other times not. The right hon. Gentleman is experienced enough in this House to know that. He has registered his mild irritation, but the right hon. Member for Haltemprice and Howden (Mr Davis) has adhered to the rules today, as on previous occasions.

Israel: Meetings

Debate between John Bercow and Kevan Jones

Tuesday 7th November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

The short answer is that Members can table questions, either written or oral or both. If the hon. Gentleman is dissatisfied he can, when the House returns next week, seek, by one or other means of the various types of question available, to procure the information, in all likelihood from the Secretary of State for International Development herself.

[Mr Kevan Jones]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. Will the Minister have an opportunity to offer some clarification? He has said today that Foreign Office staff in Israel found out about these meetings as they were going on, but, from answers to my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh South (Ian Murray) and others, it seems clear that they found out after the meetings had taken place. May we get some clarity about when they did find this out?

[Mr Speaker]

The Minister of State may come in in a moment if he wishes, but when that was first put to him, he effectively acknowledged the likelihood that that was so, and I think it recurred as an issue in the course of the questioning—and the hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) has now reiterated the same point. So, although there might not be specificity today about precise dates, on the concept involved, the right hon. Gentleman the Minister of State was clear. It is open to Members to return to these matters in the normal way through written and oral interrogation, and the hon. Gentleman will have to be only modestly patient.

Armed Forces Pay

Debate between John Bercow and Kevan Jones

Wednesday 1st November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Kevan Jones]

I think that the hon. Gentleman is being completely disingenuous—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. No, the hon. Gentleman must not use that word. He is a person of felicitous phrase and extensive vocabulary, and he must find some other way to express his irascibility with or disapproval of the Minister.

[Mr Jones]

The Minister is wrong. The point is that, in any job, people get a pay increase because they are being trained and their ability to serve increases as that goes on. The fact is that the yearly increases my hon. Friend the Member for Llanelli (Nia Griffith) mentioned affect a private’s pay because they affect the levels of the bands and the percentages. He cannot argue that, just because somebody gets pay progression, not giving them an increase in their basic pay every year will not affect their ultimate pay. Of course it will.

Scheduling of Parliamentary Business

Debate between John Bercow and Kevan Jones

Monday 17th July 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. This debate is about Opposition days and our ability to hold the Government to account. If the Leader of the House wants debates about the subjects she is now referring to, why does she not allow them rather than diverting from what this debate is about?

[Mr Speaker]

The hon. Gentleman is aware that Front Benchers are usually accorded a modest latitude in developing their arguments, hence I have allowed a modest latitude, but I think the Leader of the House will shortly return to the thrust of the matter under debate—not what might have been under debate but what is under debate. I know that she will focus on that; I am perfectly sanguine on that score.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Kevan Jones]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

[Mr Speaker]

I have to take it on trust, but I hope it is a point of order rather than a point of frustration.

[Mr Jones]

I know that you were deep in conversation, Mr Speaker, but the Leader of the House has returned to issues that have nothing to do with this debate. She is just giving a long list of what this Government have achieved. If she really wants those issues to be properly aired, why will she not give us Opposition day debates so that we can vote on them?

[Mr Speaker]

I note the hon. Gentleman’s point. As far as I can tell—I hope I sense correctly—the Leader of the House is very likely approaching her peroration. A lot of Members wish to speak and there is usually a rough equivalence between the length of time taken by the Opposition spokesperson and the Government spokesperson. At this stage the right hon. Lady is in order, but I imagine that she is probably nearing the conclusion of her remarks.

[Andrea Leadsom]

rose—

[Mr Jones]

Go on, get on with it!

[Mr Speaker]

Order. There was no need for that. It is rather ungracious of the hon. Gentleman to yell from a sedentary position. He can always adopt a gentle burr, like the hon. Member for North East Somerset (Mr Rees-Mogg), which is altogether more seemly.

Personal Independence Payment: Regulations

Debate between John Bercow and Kevan Jones

Wednesday 29th March 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Before the hon. Gentleman intervenes, I point out that there are 10 other Members who wish to make speeches in the debate, including the Minister who will wind up. The hon. Member for Oldham East and Saddleworth (Debbie Abrahams) is being very generous, not only with her own time, but with time that would otherwise be available to others. I know she will want to tailor her contribution accordingly.

[Mr Jones]

I advise my hon. Friend not to put much credence in planted Whips’ questions from Tory Back Benchers. Another element of concern relates to people whose mental health condition worsens when they have a failed assessment. In some cases, they end up going into hospital, which is another cost for the NHS.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Kevan Jones]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. The hon. Lady is making a good speech, and she makes some valuable points about PIP, but it has got nothing to do with the regulations we are talking about today.

[Mr Speaker]

The Chair has to make a judgment about pertinence and at this stage I am content with my own judgment. If the hon. Gentleman is not, I shall do my best to bear that burden with such stoicism and fortitude as I am able to muster.

Trident: Test Firing

Debate between John Bercow and Kevan Jones

Monday 23rd January 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Kevan Jones]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

[Mr Speaker]

I shall take this point of order from the originator of the urgent question if it relates exclusively to the matters that have just been under discussion, and if it is an attempt not to continue the exchanges, but to provide some new information with which the hon. Gentleman thinks the House should be favoured.

[Mr Jones]

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

It has become apparent during these proceedings that US officials are now briefing more detail than has been provided by the Secretary of State today. He has hidden behind secrecy for the demonstration and shakedown, even though his own Department authorised a book by Peter Hennessy last year that gave a full description of what happens. The Chair of the Select Committee very generously suggested that the Secretary of State could come before his Committee. How can Parliament hold the Department to account on this issue if it will not even take up the generous offer that the right hon. Member for New Forest East (Dr Lewis) has already made?

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his point of order. I say simply that the Secretary of State will have heard the right hon. Member for New Forest East (Dr Lewis), the Chair of the Select Committee, who is extremely diligent, extraordinarily intelligent and persistent—and I have known him a damn sight longer than the Secretary of State has known him. How the Secretary of State wants to deal with the right hon. Member for New Forest East is entirely a matter for him and his judgment, exercising it to the best of his ability. We will leave it there for now.

Point of Order

Debate between John Bercow and Kevan Jones

Tuesday 13th December 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. A fundamental part of our parliamentary democracy is the right of our constituents to raise concerns with their Members of Parliament. My constituent Dawn Knight has raised with me the terrible treatment she received from the Hospital Medical Group following cosmetic surgery. I have raised her case on a number of occasions with Ministers, including on the Floor of the House.

Last week, Dawn Knight and Lorna Kidd, a constituent of the right hon. Member for Ipswich (Ben Gummer), received solicitors’ letters from Schillings solicitors on behalf of the Hospital Group threatening them with legal action if they discuss their cases with a third party —in other words, including with their Members of Parliament. I know that the right hon. Gentleman has already written to you, Mr Speaker, concerning his constituent. May I ask you to look at this case, because allowing our constituents to raise their concerns with us is fundamental to the way in which we operate?

[Mr Speaker]

I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his point of order, and indeed for his courtesy in giving me notice of it. I can confirm that I have received the letter to which he refers, and I shall reply to it in due course. Any attempt to impede an hon. Member going about his or her parliamentary business is potentially a contempt, and in such circumstances I would ask the hon. Member to write to me about this matter in the first instance. I hope that that is helpful both to the hon. Gentleman and more widely to the House.

Aleppo

Debate between John Bercow and Kevan Jones

Tuesday 3rd May 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The Minister was diverted from the path of virtue by the hon. Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart). No doubt the intentions were good, but we were straying somewhat from the terms of the UQ. As the Minister and others know, I have facilitated much discussion on the matter of refugees. I rather imagine that there will be more, and no doubt people will think, “And so there should be”, but it would be best today if we could stick to the terms of the UQ that the hon. Member for Batley and Spen (Jo Cox) applied for and that I granted.

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

The Minister quite rightly spoke about the influence of Russia, but what pressure is being put on Iran, which has equally supported the Assad regime, both directly and through proxies such as Hezbollah? Has the Foreign Office or the international community opened up that dialogue with Iran and, as part of the Iran deal, put pressure on it to make sure that it actually responds?

Mental Health Taskforce

Debate between John Bercow and Kevan Jones

Tuesday 23rd February 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I know that the right hon. Gentleman will take it in the right spirit when I say that it is immensely encouraging that he notices his own answers.

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

Parity of esteem and extra resources are important, but one of the main messages from this report is that we need to hard-wire mental health and well-being into public policy. Twice as many people take their own lives as are killed on our roads each year. Does the Minister agree that it is now time for a national campaign to address this issue?

Local Government Finance

Debate between John Bercow and Kevan Jones

Monday 8th February 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

For the benefit of the PPSs, my local authority is County Durham. It is a bit off, Mr Speaker, that the Secretary of State has all the figures, but they have not been released to councils, which means we have no way of scrutinising his answers.

I wish to raise the point also raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Halton (Derek Twigg) about the Better Care Fund. I agree with the Secretary of State that this issue affects all councils, but County Durham has a low council tax base, as most of its properties are in bands A or B. He just said this will be taken care of in the formula. Will he meet me and north-east MPs whose councils are disadvantaged by not being able to raise the cash that larger authorities, such as Westminster, can?

[Mr Speaker]

Usually the complaint is that others are told first. In this case, I fear some people are complaining that the House is being told first. I cannot see what is wrong with that. It seems a highly desirable state of affairs. I might have misunderstood, but I think I have understood.

Points of Order

Debate between John Bercow and Kevan Jones

Monday 24th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. On 4 November, I tabled a written question to the Home Secretary, asking how many Libyan service personnel who received training in the UK had claimed asylum. I received a reply on 17 November saying that it was not the policy of the Home Office, hiding behind the Data Protection Act, to disclose personal information. On 18 November, I tabled a similar question, only to be told that it would not be possible to answer the question in the time available. Today the Defence Secretary has confirmed that a handful of personnel have actually claimed asylum. Does he think that the Home Office’s replies are acceptable, and how would he suggest that we go about getting an answer with the actual numbers who have claimed asylum?

[Mr Speaker]

Of course, that is not a matter for me. When the hon. Gentleman asks whether “he” can advise on this or that, I assume he means me. I am sure the hon. Gentleman does not expect the Secretary of State to criticise one of his ministerial colleagues—the Secretary of State will not do that. What I would say to the hon. Gentleman, in so far as he requires my protection or advice, is that he needs to pursue his usual approach, which is to be a busy bee. He should table questions and, in a legitimate, parliamentary sense, nag. In my experience of the hon. Gentleman, he requires no encouragement to do just that.

Finance (No. 2) Bill

Debate between John Bercow and Kevan Jones

Tuesday 1st April 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that point of order. His courtesy in the House is well known, as in general terms is his interest in the sector concerned. His omission was inadvertent and he has put the record straight at the first opportunity, and I thank him for doing so.

[Mr Jones]

The hon. Gentleman has not broken my flow, but I thank him for the little breather to give my larynx a rest.

If one follows the logic of the hon. Member for Macclesfield, business should not get any subsidies whatever. But we all know that that is complete nonsense. The Government are now increasing investment allowances, but they cut them in 2012. We are now told that this is a great achievement of the Budget, but we are only back to where we were in 2012.

I am seriously concerned that we have a two-speed Britain. We have a housing market that has clearly been stoked in London and the south-east, and we have a stagnant north. The hon. Member for Hexham (Guy Opperman) described Hexham, which is a nice constituency, and in the north-east, but he is living in some type of parallel universe if he thinks that the north-east economy is booming. Well-paid jobs in the public and private sectors have been replaced by low-paid zero-hours contracts. Four out of five of the new jobs that have been created are low paid and in the service sector, not in the long-term sectors. Added to that—as a north-east Member the hon. Member for Redcar is voting for this—is a movement of the limited public finance that there is from the north-east and other areas to the south. For example, we have already seen the record level of cuts in public expenditure for councils in the north-east. Durham county council has lost 40% of its budget. Contrary to what the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government says about 40% of a budget somehow being saved by cutting down on pot plants or the fripperies, that is not possible. It has to be done by cutting back on services and people.

As if that was not bad enough, there is more to come. In the Budget and as part of the process, Durham county council will now lose another £13 million. Gateshead council will lose nearly £8 million. Newcastle city council will lose a further £14 million. South Tyneside will lose £7 million and Northumberland nearly £4.2 million. That will take money out of the economy and redistribute it to those in the south. The cut per dwelling in South Tyneside is £101.50. In Sunderland, it is £90.45. Meanwhile, Wokingham—people will think I have a thing about Wokingham—has an increase of £55, and Surrey an increase of £51. The hon. Member for Redcar, the great champion of the north-east, is voting for these things, redistributing money from the north and north-east to the south of England. That is having an effect on jobs.

The hon. Member for Macclesfield might think that public sector jobs are not important, but I tend to think that they are. When one needs the NHS, people must be there. When home care is needed from a local authority, people must be there. If there is no money and deprivation indices have been removed, not only are those services being removed, but money is being taken from the local economy. That will have an impact on exactly the businesses that the hon. Gentleman argued earlier we should be supporting and growing.

Waste Review

Debate between John Bercow and Kevan Jones

Tuesday 14th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

I am sorry that the right hon. Lady is acting as a human shield for the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government—I have heard that no Liberal Democrat is available to do the job. One of the key issues at local level that encourages cleaner communities is the proper containerisation of waste, particularly trade and household waste. Will she confirm that the fines that councils can impose on businesses will be retained, and what does she suggest to a council—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I am grateful.

Business of the House (Thursday)

Debate between John Bercow and Kevan Jones

Wednesday 8th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

I am sorry, but I would not dream of telling Mr Speaker how to do his job. It will be up to Mr Speaker to decide the allocation of time and who is called. Given the numbers who have expressed an interest in the debate, I think a time limit might well be introduced.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Perhaps I can be helpful both to the hon. Gentleman and to the House. The time allocated for the consideration of these important matters tomorrow is specified and protected time. Any concern that the hon. Gentleman might have of the kind that he has just expressed is almost certainly unfounded. I think it would be better if he were to develop his argument on other fronts. In the process, may I gently remind him that I am having some regard to the economy of speeches? I am interested to hear voices, but there must be economy.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I have not done any of the things of which I am accused.

[Mr Jones]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for coming in. I do not think that he has been here all night, unlike the rest of us. Clearly he has had his dinner, unlike me, and many other Members who have been sat here since 7 o’clock.

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[Mr Speaker]

The short answer to the hon. Gentleman is that he is raising a hypothetical question, and my attitude is best encapsulated in the wise words of the late Lord Whitelaw, who famously said that on the whole he preferred to cross bridges only when he came to them.

[Mr Jones]

It is important to put this business motion into context. It is a Government motion that seeks to regulate the business and sitting of the House, and page 368 of “Erskine May” sets out the details about such motions clearly, stating:

“Such motions, which do not have precedence…are normally moved by the Leader of the House and invariably require notice”.

We have clearly had notice of tonight’s motion. Indeed, we had notice of an alternative motion this week, but unfortunately the Government did not move the first motion that they tabled.

“Erskine May” continues by stating that the motions regulating business are, first,

“those…referred to specifically in Standing Order No 15 (exempted business), which are moved at the interruption of business”.

The second type is also described on page 368.

“Erskine May” continues:

“Under recent practice, such motions are more commonly moved in the ordinary course of the day’s business in relation to the business proposed for a future day, in which case notice is given as for any other notice of motion. Typically, such motions may set a time limit for a future debate”—

that is clearly the intention of the Government’s motion tonight—

“and may provide for the putting of questions by the Speaker after a certain period or at a specified time.”

That last point relates to the limit of 5.30 pm tomorrow. It goes on to say that such motions “may be complex”. According to “Erskine May”, the purpose of such a motion may be

“To give precedence to government business over private Members’ business either on a particular day or days or for a period, for example, until the end of the financial year.”

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[Mr Speaker]

Yes, I think it has.

[Mr Jones]

My hon. Friend makes a very good point about the specific day that the Government picked for the debate. We have seen changes to the motion this week, and it would be interesting to know why the motion for a three-hour debate was not moved the other night. I return to the point that I have yet to learn the justification for why we got the extra two hours. If we can allow two extra hours, I am sure we can allow more.

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[Mr Jones]

No, and my hon. Friend is another Member who has read my mind, because I was just about to come on to that. The Deputy Leader of the House, who has now resumed his place, used to give long lectures on why programme motions were so evil, but the effect of tonight’s motion will be to limit the time for debate in a similar way to a programme motion.

I do not intend to go through the entire history of how we came to have programme motions, because that would lead us away from the point, but as my hon. Friend the Member for Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock (Sandra Osborne) said, in the last Parliament we were regularly told how evil programme motions were. The hon. Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Mr Shepherd) set out his views clearly on many occasions about why programme motions, or limiting the time for debate—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. May I say to the hon. Gentleman that, as I think he knows very well, he has a well honed technique of informing the House that he is not about to talk about something, before proceeding to do precisely that? He said that he would not rehearse the history of programme motions, and he is absolutely right, he will not. I hope that he will now focus on the specifics of the motion as, presumably, he is drawing his remarks to a close.

[Mr Jones]

I was going to do so, Mr Speaker, but I was making the point that the effect of the business motion is to limit debate. When the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats were in opposition, they made it quite clear how terrible programme motions were.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between John Bercow and Kevan Jones

Monday 13th September 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

I am sure that the Minister has seen in The Sun newspaper this morning the proposal to throw out of the armed forces those who have been severely wounded on active service. I note that the Ministry of Defence and the Secretary of State are citing the introduction of manning control points as a justification for that. When I was the Minister responsible for these matters, I resisted the introduction of manning control points, and it was only after intense pressure from the head of the Army, General Sir David Richards, and the Army Board that they were introduced. What was clear, however, was that they would not be used as a way of getting rid of brave servicemen and women injured in the defence of this country—a position that was underlined when General Richards and I launched the Army recovery capability in February. At the time, General Richards said that he expected

“that no soldier who thinks it is in his interests to stay will be forced out.”

May I ask the Minister whether that has now changed? Is it now the intention of the Ministry of Defence, under pressure from the Treasury, to use manning control points to force out those injured in the line of duty? If it is, it will be a moral betrayal and run contrary to all the rhetoric—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. We have got the thrust of the question, and I am extremely grateful to the hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones). A brief reply from the Minister, please.

Finance Bill

Debate between John Bercow and Kevan Jones

Tuesday 6th July 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

Well, it is. In a constituency such as mine, driving is an essential tool for young people in getting to work and other places. My fear is that this will lead—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I apologise for interrupting the hon. Gentleman, but a very large number of private conversations are taking place and there is a substantial hubbub in the Chamber. It is as though, after the first 53 minutes of his speech, the attention of the House has wandered a little. However, I know that a hushed atmosphere will be resumed and the House will want to hang upon his every word.

Points of Order

Debate between John Bercow and Kevan Jones

Thursday 1st July 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I appreciate the importance that the hon. Gentleman attaches to the matter. He has raised it before and he feels a commitment to his constituents in relation to it. Therefore, it is understandable that he has flagged it up in passionate and explicit terms with me this afternoon. I do not think that I can add anything, however, to what I have already said. If a new approach or policy is planned on a matter of great importance, which this certainly is, it should be the subject of a statement to the House first. I have now said that twice so I am sure that it has been heard in the relevant quarters.

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. You have just reiterated that Ministers should come to the House when there has been a change of policy. The Prime Minister came to the House two weeks ago and made a statement on the important subject of our involvement in Afghanistan. He then briefed the press when he went to Canada last weekend about time limits for our withdrawal. Yesterday the Defence Secretary attended the right-wing Heritage Foundation in Washington. Is it not right that they should make announcements here if policy has changed in the past two weeks on Afghanistan?

[Mr Speaker]

All I can say to the hon. Gentleman is that discussion of public policy is an ongoing process. It takes place all the time and Ministers can discuss policy issues in a variety of ways, including in speeches and exchanges outside the House. The crucial point is this. When a new policy is to be announced, it must be announced here first. All that I can say is that I will keep a beady eye on this matter, not merely on a weekly basis but on a daily basis.