Voluntary Sector: Faith Organisations
Debate between Stephen Timms and Lord Wharton of Yarm
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government (James Wharton)
What a fascinating debate this has been. It has touched on areas of Government policy in a lot of Departments, and on experiences that so many hon. and right hon. Members have had in their constituencies. We have heard about so much of the great work that those of different faiths in our society do for the communities that we are all here to represent.
Faith is a deeply personal and individual thing. It can inspire us when we strive to achieve, to do more, and to change the world and the circumstances around us. It can console us when we are at our lowest ebb. It is interwoven into the history of our great country and throughout our society. It clearly has inspired many of the comments that hon. Members have made in this debate, which I welcome given its importance and relevance to so much of what is happening around us.
The Prime Minister has rightly praised the role and importance of faith in our society. Members of Parliament from across the party political divide recognise the different aspects of faith, and the ways in which it contributes to what we all want to achieve: a better, more successful society, community and country.
Faith organisations represent a huge part of our charitable and voluntary sector. There are nearly 50,000 faith-based charities; 27% of the charities registered in this country are faith-based—from small groups to large organisations such as the Salvation Army, which has been mentioned more than once today and has made a real contribution to our society for some 150 years.
Faith also makes a contribution to our policy and policy development. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) on her work in this area and securing this debate in tandem with the right hon. Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms). She spoke of the range of charities and organisations that work in this area and the variety of work they do.
I would like to mention street pastors. There are some in Stockton, and when I was first elected—I have done so subsequently—I went out with them to see the great work that they do on my local high street. They help people when they need a bit of extra support and calm people when they are scared, frustrated or frightened. I remember one night vividly. At about 2 o’clock in the morning, we approached one young lady who was somewhat the worse for wear—“tired and emotional” might be the appropriate jargon in this context. She gladly took the support—the bottle of water, the flip-flops and the welcoming arm around the shoulder—that the street pastors gave her. She looked at me and said, “You—you look like that Tory!” I said, “Don’t worry about that now; we’re here to help.” That is what this Government and these organisations are about—not party politics, but assisting people in our society to make it a better place.
My hon. Friend the Member for Congleton spoke about campaigning work on the crucial issue of human trafficking, as well as literacy, youth work and keeping Middlewich clean. Contributions are made at different levels and in different ways, but they all matter, and they speak to the great work done by many people in our society, inspired by their faith.
My hon. Friend inspired my hon. Friend the Member for Shipley (Philip Davies) to make an intervention about his constituency’s experience during the flooding. I know from my visit to his constituency and others throughout the north of England when those devastating floods were experienced over Christmas and the new year that although it was often the Christian organisations that helped, the mosques in Bradford—this was the specific example that my hon. Friend gave—also stepped forward and were quick to organise the most effective support. It was the churches that opened their doors to those who had lost access to their homes because of the impact of the devastating weather across much of the north of England; and it was the churches and other faith and community-based religious organisations that were there to help people when they most needed help.
My right hon. Friend the Member for Chelmsford (Sir Simon Burns) called faith groups “unsung heroes”, but they have certainly not all been unsung in today’s debate. While many have been recognised, there are many more. Indeed, there are so many doing so much that we would not have time to comment on them all this afternoon.
My hon. Friend the Member for Congleton raised genuine and legitimate concerns about the way in which local government engages with faith-based organisations that want to do good work in our communities. Sometimes fear or a lack of understanding can prevent good things from being done for those communities that local government exists to serve. I am a Communities and Local Government Minister, so this issue resonates particularly with me. I would, of course, be happy to discuss it further with my hon. Friend because we want to ensure that when a positive contribution can be made, everything is done to facilitate it.
I listened carefully to what my hon. Friend said about Ofsted inspections. The Prime Minister and the Secretary of State for Education have been clear that the registration of out-of-school settings will not apply to organisations such as Sunday schools. We do not propose to regulate institutions such as Sunday schools that teach children for only a short period every week. We have to ensure that organisations do the right thing and meet the standards expected of them, but I have listened to my hon. Friend’s concerns. I am sure that they will be drawn to the attention of the Secretary of State for Education. I shall do that, and I know my hon. Friend will, too—in fact, she probably already has.
I congratulate the right hon. Member for East Ham on his work with the all-party group on faith and society, and the incredible contribution it makes to informing Members of the breadth of work done out there in the communities we all represent by faith-based organisations. He spoke of faith-based social activism and gave specific examples of the difference it can make when organisations inspired by their faith lead a debate that ultimately contributes to policy change in this place. They convince those who, by virtue of our democratic process, have the opportunity to effect political change by supporting the right issues.
The right hon. Gentleman also spoke about the faith covenant, the development of which by the all-party group on faith and society is welcome. We wanted engagement in the delivery of Government services—particularly at local government level, as suggested by my hon. Friend the Member for Congleton—to take place in a way that would secure the maximum benefit for all who rely on those services, and the covenant makes a welcome contribution to that discussion.
Stephen Timms
May I ask the Minister to reflect on the Oasis Trust’s proposal that the covenant should be sponsored by the Government, and that the Government should help to spread it among local authorities throughout the country?
James Wharton
Anything that raises the profile of the work that is being done, and that draws attention to the engagement and approach that are needed, is certainly welcome. I will indeed reflect on the right hon. Gentleman’s comments. I am sure that this debate is helping to raise the profile of what is indeed an important issue, but I acknowledge that he would like additional work to be done.
My hon. Friend the Member for Stafford (Jeremy Lefroy) spoke of the great work that is being done by a range of charities in his constituency, across faiths and across the communities that they serve, which even includes the use of the Conservative association headquarters—I welcome that innovative step. That work is making a real difference to the lives of people in Stafford. He spoke of the need for not just funding, but funding consistency. That sends an important message to central and local government departments, and the arms of the state that commission services, about what is needed by voluntary organisations which, by their very nature and the way in which they come about, are often more effective than any deliberately centrally designed arm of government is likely to be. Balancing the need to ensure that public money is properly protected and accounted for with the need to retain what makes those organisations special presents an important challenge, as does giving them the consistency and certainty that they need to engage with funding streams and get the best from them. I will certainly take account of my hon. Friend’s comments, and I know that my hon. Friend the Minister for Civil Society, who is very involved with this issue, will be interested in what he said.
My hon. Friend also spoke about the value of training and the processes that are needed to ensure that people who are involved in these programmes continue to be trained and retrained so that that they can get the best out of the good things that they want to do. His comments were welcome and pertinent, and I know that they will resonate across Government and in his continuing discussions with Ministers.
My hon. Friend the Member for St Austell and Newquay (Steve Double) made a powerful speech about the contribution of faith to public life. He spoke from his considerable experience, highlighting the historical context of that contribution and what it has done to build the society in which we live today. He gave the specific example of the value of the contribution of Christian volunteers to the society and communities of Cornwall. That contribution, it emerged, was worth £20 million a year, and that did not include the great work done by many other faith groups and groups in general. My hon. Friend rightly observed that when that figure is multiplied to cover the whole country, it becomes clear that a significant contribution is being made to our society.
The quick and practical response of faith organisations is often unparalleled. As has been pointed out, in the event of floods and other disasters, of whatever type and wherever they occur in the world, it is often faith-driven communities that are sufficiently fleet of foot, motivated in the right way, and adequately engaged and connected to ensure that help reaches those who need it most rapidly. Governments always try to be quick to respond to emerging challenges, but they are not always the first to respond or the first on the scene, and they are not always the fastest in providing help where it is needed. Faith organisations often fulfil that role, and the work that they do in that respect is incredibly important.
My hon. Friend also challenged me to recognise, on behalf of the Government, the importance of the contribution of faith to our society and what we do. I hope that I have already made clear the Government’s support for faith organisations, but I will restate it for the avoidance of any doubt. Like the Prime Minister, and like many Members who have spoken in the debate, I recognise—the Government recognise—the important contribution that faith makes to our society and the incredible value that it adds to our country. However, my hon. Friend was right to ask for that recognition to be put on record again today because it is important to all of us and the communities that we represent.
The shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Redcar (Anna Turley), touched on many comments that hon. Members have made. She also made a specific point about the Charity Commission’s work in regulating this area. The commission does a difficult job. It deals with a range of charitable organisations and has to ensure that they do not use the freedoms that we rightly give them and the support that the state offers them for purposes that are not charitable. It has to work hard to get the balance right, and the shadow Minister is absolutely right that we should look into any concerns to ensure that that job is being done appropriately.
The Charity Commission must be free to make investigations when appropriate, but it must also be accountable for any decisions it makes and investigations that it carries out. I welcome the shadow Minister’s comments about the need to get the balance right regarding the sort of organisations that are chosen for investigation to ensure that every community and every faith, the depth of whose contributions we have heard about today, will feel able to engage fully with the freedoms that exist and the opportunities to contribute to our society.
This has been a positive, informative and well-informed debate. It has without doubt highlighted the breadth of the work that faith and charity organisations do. It has touched on many aspects of Government policy and many areas of support in our society, and drawn on examples from right across our great country. The charitable sector is a great and wonderful thing. It is one of those things that we should be proud of and that makes this country great. A large part of the charitable sector is supported by those motivated by their true and deeply held faith and convictions, which is to be welcomed and encouraged. The comments made by hon. Members today underline the significance that we in this House attach to the work that they do.