Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Tom Greatrex and Chris Grayling

Tuesday 5th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/Co-op)]

6. What estimate he has made of the cost to his Department of appeals related to the work capability assessment.

[The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Chris Grayling)]

Some 103,000 appeals against decisions related to the work capability assessment were disposed of between April and September 2012. The estimated total associated cost was £23.5 million. In the previous financial year, 189,000 appeals were made, at an estimated total cost of £45 million.

[Tom Greatrex]

I am grateful to the Minister for that answer. As he knows from his previous responsibilities, many of those appeals were a result of incorrect initial decisions in a work capability assessment. Given that Department for Work and Pensions figures that I have obtained show that more than 35,000 people in the support group have to repeat the WCA, including people with cancer, Parkinson’s disease, multiple sclerosis and other progressive conditions, does the Secretary of State not accept that there would be less cost to his Department and therefore to the public if we stopped reassessing people who are not going to get better?

[Chris Grayling]

Of course, that is really a matter for the DWP. It is my job to provide an appeal route for those who wish to appeal, but the hon. Gentleman will be aware that before I left my previous job I asked officials to change how we reassessed people who had been through an appeal so that there was a more sensible length of time between appeal and reassessment.

Atos Healthcare

Debate between Tom Greatrex and Chris Grayling

Monday 5th November 2012 Ministerial Corrections

[Tom Greatrex]

To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions with reference to the answer of 1 May 2012, to the hon. Member for Cardiff West, Official Report, column 1407W, on Atos, what the monetary value was of each contract between his Department and Atos in (a) 2008-09, (b) 2009-10 and (c) 2010-11.

[Official Report, 22 May 2012, Vol. 545, c. 643W.]



Letter of correction from Chris Grayling

An error has been identified in the written answer given to the hon. Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Tom Greatrex) on 22 May 2012.

The full answer given was as follows:

[Chris Grayling]

The spend values for the five DWP contracts with Atos are as follows:

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Tom Greatrex and Chris Grayling

Monday 25th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I absolutely agree with my right hon. Friend. I have made it clear that I would like employers in this country to offer opportunities to local workers, but those workers need to be there—they need to be keen, energetic and wanting that work. I hope and expect that our Work programme providers will provide that energisation.

[Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Minister will know that, as well as the people looking for work following a refusal of appeal, many people win their appeal. Having won an appeal, however, they then have another work capability assessment, but the information that led to their appeal being won is not made available to the people undertaking the second WCA. Will he look at this situation in order to prevent people from going through a cycle of assessment, followed by appeal, followed by assessment?

[Chris Grayling]

The hon. Gentleman will know that the system set up by the previous Labour Government set a prognosis time for an individual—an estimate of how long before they could return to work. It is that, rather than anything else, which guides the timetable for repeat assessments. I have taken steps to stretch that timetable post-appeal, but I do not want to leave people stranded on benefits for the rest of their lives if we can possibly help them find employment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/Co-op)]

T8. Perhaps my earlier question was not clear, because I did not get a clear answer from the Minister, so I wonder if he could answer my question this time. With the number of people who go through a process of work capability assessment, followed by appeal, followed by assessment again, will he undertake to ensure that the information on which tribunals decide that people are not fit for work is made available to those making the decisions for the following work capability assessment, so that people do not get caught in that cycle?

[Chris Grayling]

Yes, I get what the hon. Gentleman is talking about. We are currently working with the tribunals service to get written decisions passed back to Jobcentre Plus for decision makers. That will be introduced within the next month.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Tom Greatrex and Chris Grayling

Monday 23rd April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I wholeheartedly agree with my hon. Friend. The tide of bureaucracy we have seen in recent years has hindered business and affected employment. My view is that the EU should focus on measures that create jobs, rather than hindering the creation of jobs. That is of fundamental importance and I can assure him that I will fight that battle extremely vigorously in Brussels.

[Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Health and Safety Executive has recently concluded its consultation on charging business for some of its services. Will it be able to keep the income brought in through that process or will it go straight into the Treasury?

[Chris Grayling]

The actual process is that all moneys raised in such a way go to the Treasury first, but financial agreement has been reached between the Treasury and the HSE, so that appropriate amounts of money are passed on to the HSE so that it can carry out that regime as intended.

--- Later in debate ---

[Tom Greatrex]

Does any Minister think it appropriate that, while undertaking a contract on behalf of the Secretary of State’s Department, Atos Healthcare, first, published misleading information on its website; secondly, refused to comply with the Advertising Standards Authority inquiry into that information; and, thirdly, failed to correct it until alerted to do so by the media last week—several weeks after the compliance notice was issued? Do they think that that is acceptable for an agency working on behalf of the Government?

[The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Chris Grayling)]

We always discuss issues such as that one very carefully with our subcontractors, but I do not believe that it affects the professionalism of the health care professionals who are carrying out the work on our behalf. Many are doing a very difficult job in challenging circumstances—but doing the best for people who claim incapacity benefit and who could have a better future.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Tom Greatrex and Chris Grayling

Monday 5th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

This is one area where we have worked very hard to secure a change. A large amount of new evidence was indeed appearing only at the appeal stage and that was one of the key things that Professor Harrington suggested we address. We are now bringing in medical evidence much earlier—at the start of the process, when the decisions are taken or when a reconsideration is taking place in Jobcentre Plus. There are now few circumstances in which new evidence appears at the appeal stage, and that is really important.

[Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/Co-op)]

I am sure that the Minister will be aware of the research undertaken by Citizens Advice Scotland for its report “From pillar to post”, which highlighted some issues that Professor Harrington should be considering in his further reports. Will the Minister meet me and representatives of Citizens Advice Scotland to discuss those concerns so that he can discuss them with Professor Harrington before he undertakes his third review?

[Chris Grayling]

I have many meetings with people involved in these matters. I suggest that it is better for the hon. Gentleman and Citizens Advice Scotland to meet Professor Harrington directly to raise those concerns, rather than for me to be a middleman. We listen carefully to the recommendations he makes, and I would be happy to arrange that meeting for the hon. Gentleman.

Work Capability Assessments

Debate between Tom Greatrex and Chris Grayling

Wednesday 1st February 2012 Westminster Hall

[Chris Grayling]

I will not take interventions, because I have only five minutes and must get through a lot.

We have also tried to make the process more humane. People now get phone calls instead of the generated, standard letters that I regard as impersonal and inhuman. All our measures are part of a process of change that I hope will make a real difference to individuals’ experiences—and it is. Indeed, in his second report, Professor Harrington praises those involved in the process for creating a system that he, as an independent figure, regards as much improved.

As constituency MPs, we will always have people coming to our doors saying, “I am being done wrong by,” because sometimes, in an imperfect system, we will not have got it right. Equally, however, some people will still think that we have done wrong by them, but three years later, when they are back in work, they will say that it was the best thing that ever happened to them.

About a month ago, I sat with a woman in a Work programme centre who said that she had been off work with chronic depression for 13 years. She told me that she had arrived on her first day in the Work programme and said, “I can’t possibly work. This is ridiculous. I don’t know why I am here. I am being traduced.” A month later, she was doing voluntary work in a charity shop, applying for jobs and beginning to say, “Actually, this is good.” We are taking people through a difficult period in their lives.

I said “rubbish” to the final comment made by the hon. Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West not because he is not raising genuine issues—although I hope that I have explained their context—but because the system is not about forcing people into work. It is about finding the right number of people whom we can help into work. The alternative is to leave them on benefits for the rest of their lives, doing nothing. I do not believe that they benefit from that.

[Tom Greatrex]

I was making the point that, given the lack of confidence in the system, many people feel as though they are being hounded rather than helped. That is the crucial matter that must be addressed in the coming period.

[Chris Grayling]

I accept that, but I genuinely hope that hon. Members will take note of what I said about the time lines and the changes that we have introduced. Professor Harrington said of the concerns highlighted in the Citizens Advice report to which hon. Members referred, “This happened before my changes.” I hope that we can send the message that the system is changing and improving and that we are making genuine efforts and will continue to do so. That is why we changed the guidance in November. It is a process of continuous improvement. We want to get it right as far as we possibly can.

I shall try to answer one or two specific questions before I finish. On audio recording, we will offer everyone who wants it the opportunity to have their session recorded. We decided not to implement universal recording because, based on the trial experience, people did not want it. Few people wanted their sessions recorded, and some said that they definitely did not. We decided therefore to offer recording as an option to those who want it. That seems entirely sensible.

Contact between Atos health care professionals and decision makers will be done by telephone. What matters is not the contact between a single person and a block of decision makers, but trying to phone up the decision maker themselves. On capacity issues, as we stand here today, the incapacity benefit reassessment is on time. New claims for ESA have fallen a bit behind, mostly because of the introduction of the personalised statement following Professor Harrington’s report. We discovered in the first few weeks that it took health care professionals much longer to complete the statement than expected, so the number of completed assessments dropped. That has changed. They have caught up again, and we are chasing through to clear the backlog, as we are doing with the appeals backlog that we inherited.

Finally, the right hon. Member for East Ham asked about the Work programme. Incapacity benefit reassessments are progressing according to time. The biggest impact on numbers in the programme has been created by the different mix of people coming through and the bigger support group. I am quite relaxed about having a bigger support group, because if we need to provide long-term unconditional support to a larger group of people than we had expected, it shows that we are making a genuine effort to get it right and are being sensitive to the needs of people with disabilities. We want to help them into work, but we want to do it in the right way.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Tom Greatrex and Chris Grayling

Monday 24th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/Co-op)]

11. What assessment he has made of progress towards implementation of the recommendations of the Harrington review of the work capability assessment.

[The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Chris Grayling)]

We took steps earlier this year to ensure that all the recommendations in Professor Harrington’s first report were implemented in time for the start of the national migration from incapacity benefit. I expect to receive Professor Harrington’s second report, telling us how well he thinks we are doing on that front, shortly.

[Tom Greatrex]

Given the Minister’s earlier comments, I am sure that he is well aware of the progressive and incurable nature of Parkinson’s disease. A constituent of mine with Parkinson’s has been called for his third work capability assessment, despite appealing the previous two incorrect decisions by Atos and the decision makers. Will the Minister undertake to meet me and Parkinson’s UK, so that he can understand better how in practice the work capability assessment, rather than helping people who can work, too often hounds those who will not get better?

[Chris Grayling]

The hon. Gentleman has to understand that one of the great failings of our welfare state over the past decade has been that we have left people on the sidelines year after year without checking to see what their condition is or what the potential alternatives are. I am very happy to meet Parkinson’s UK and the hon. Gentleman. I well understand the challenges that the disease presents for those who are unfortunate enough to suffer from it, but we cannot simply go back to a situation in which we leave people year after year without even checking what their condition is.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Tom Greatrex and Chris Grayling

Monday 10th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I recognise the problem to which my hon. Friend refers, which is one reason why we have been absolutely clear to would-be bidders for the prime contracts for the Work programme that we expect them not simply to build but maintain a network of smaller providers. Where they have such cash-flow problems, it will be the big guys with the capital who are expected to carry the burden. In addition, we have put in place the Merlin standard, a code of conduct for contractors that basically states that if they do not do right by smaller organisations, and if they treat them badly commercially, they can lose their contracts.

[Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/Co-op)]

T9. Will the Minister join me in welcoming the establishment of the York Disabled Workers Cooperative, in which former Remploy workers, with the support of the GMB union and others, have established a factory making garden furniture and other products and selling them directly to the public? Does that not show that there remains a place for supported employment factories in the UK, and will she bear that in mind in the context of the review of Remploy?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Tom Greatrex and Chris Grayling

Monday 19th July 2010 Commons Chamber

[Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/Co-op)]

T3. Given the brief opportunity afforded by Lord Young for others to input into his review of health and safety legislation, what comfort can the Minister give my constituents that its motivation is a serious effort to ensure that the right protection is in place to prevent disasters such as the one that occurred in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow North (Ann McKechin), at Stockline, rather than another excuse to trot out the usual litany of myth and distortion for the gratification of the Daily Mail?

[Chris Grayling]

The hon. Gentleman has to understand that any Administration must find a balance. If we regulate too much, there will be fewer jobs; at the same time, if we do not regulate enough, employees will be exposed to danger. We have to find the right balance between those two, and I do not believe that over the past 13 years the previous Government did that. They over-regulated, drove companies overseas and cost jobs. We will endeavour to ensure that we restore a degree of common sense, not simply to health and safety regulation but to the regulatory burden imposed on business right across government.