Transparency of Lobbying, Non-Party Campaigning and Trade Union Administration Bill

Tom Harris Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd September 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Leader of the House of Commons (Mr Andrew Lansley)]

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

As a coalition Government, we inherited a legacy of a lack of trust and confidence in our political system. [Interruption.] I am surprised that Labour Members would laugh at that thought, as they were responsible for 13 years of it. To tackle this, we have sought to be the most transparent Government in history. We are the first Government to publish details of meetings that Ministers and permanent secretaries have with external organisations, of our gifts and hospitality and of departmental business plans, as well as a wide range of raw data.

The Bill takes practical steps to take those principles forward. It implements our coalition commitment to introduce a statutory register of lobbyists, providing transparency in who lobbies whom, and for whom.

[Mr Tom Harris (Glasgow South) (Lab)]

Will the Leader of the House place in the House of Commons Library the results of the public consultation that he has carried out on the Bill?

[Mr Lansley]

I am surprised that the hon. Gentleman is unaware of two things: first, that a consultation took place on the issues relating to a statutory register of lobbyists in January 2012 and, secondly, that the Labour party did not respond to that consultation, so seriously did it take it.

The introduction of a statutory register of lobbyists will fulfil a commitment made in “The Coalition: our programme for government”. There are two key principles reflected in the Bill. The first is that transparency is central to accountability and that the public should be able to see how third parties seek to influence the political system. The second is that third parties should act in an open and accountable way. The Bill will give the public more confidence about the way third parties interact with the political system, including about how much money they spend on political campaigning, especially if they seek to influence elections directly.

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[John Thurso]

My hon. Friend is correct. That is exactly the point that I was making. Those are two different processes that arrive at different conclusions. However, we are where we are. I regret that we have not had pre-legislative scrutiny, but we will have three days in Committee and two days on consideration. I hope that we use that time wisely to explore all the issues before us.

[Mr Tom Harris]

The hon. Gentleman’s concern over the lack of pre-legislative scrutiny will have been heard on both sides of the House. Given that lack of scrutiny, will he join us in the Lobby to vote down the programme motion and to provide a more adequate amount of time to debate the Bill on the Floor of the House?

[John Thurso]

I am sorry to disappoint the hon. Gentleman, but I will not do that because it would not introduce pre-legislative scrutiny. There are three days to debate the Bill in Committee. There are some important big issues, but not a huge number of them, so we will probably have enough time to debate them in the days that are available.

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[Stephen McPartland]

My hon. Friend makes another wonderful point. As I have said, that was the first example I had heard of a lobbyist having any influence. I am sure that his clients were delighted, as they had probably spent a lot more than the £12 million they spent on getting the planning permission on employing previous lobbyists who had no impact whatever.

Government procurement is an incredibly bureaucratic process that can go on for ever. We all have small businesses in our constituencies that struggle to engage with those bureaucratic procedures that never really get anywhere. I question how much influence those procedures have, but the Bill represents a step in the right direction.

I want to move on to part 2 of the Bill, the part that has elicited the most consternation today. I understand that charities will still be able to support specific policies advocated by political parties if that will help them to achieve their charitable purposes, and that the law currently prohibits them from engaging in party politics or party political campaigning, from supporting political candidates or from undertaking political activity that is unrelated to the charity’s purpose. The Bill seems to be dealing with trust. The Government trust the charities to engage in the policies that they want to engage in, and to do so responsibly. There also seems to be a lack of trust on the part of the charities, however, which is understandable. They are regulated by the Charity Commission, and a number of concerns and grumbles have been expressed about that over the years. The charities are asking for more specific guidance. Many of the issues that have been brought to my attention will be relevant under the current law. The charities are already having to make a judgment call under the existing law about whether their activities would affect the outcome of an election and whether they are dealing with regulated expenditure. Many of those issues are already relevant today.

I was asked earlier about the spending limit. Reducing the spending limit from just under £1 million to just under £400,000 is a positive step. Taking the big money out of politics is the most important thing—[Laughter.] Opposition Members might laugh and joke about that, but I remember when the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000 was introduced and the Electoral Commission came into being. One of the prerequisites of being employed by the commission was that a person should have had no experience of doing anything related to elections. The process was approached from the point of view that all the local organisations that we represent are hugely well funded by mysterious millionaires behind the scenes. I can assure hon. Members that the only millionaire funder in my constituency does not support my party; they support the party to which the previous Member of Parliament belonged.

The introduction of the Bill is a positive step because it allows us to talk about the issues of transparency that matter to the public. Like many Members, I have had a lot of e-mails about the Bill from various organisations. I had one from an organisation whose name I shall not deign to mention that referred to a “gagging” Bill. The Bill will do no such thing. Not one of the 400 charities and organisations in my constituency has complained to me about the Bill, and none of them would consider themselves to be involved in political campaigning.

[Mr Tom Harris]

They are going to be in for a shock.

[Stephen McPartland]

Well, they might well be in for a shock, but they would not consider themselves to be part of a political campaign. I imagine that the debates we will have during the general election campaign will be the same old debates with the same people, and that nothing will have changed.

The Bill represents a positive step forward because it allows us to discuss the issues that matter to the public, such as the need for greater transparency in politics. One Opposition Member stated that he had previously worked for Oxfam, and some of the earlier speakers said that the problem with lobbying was that it did not involve Ministers, but that it involved civil servants, desk officers and day officers. Well, that is news to me. I genuinely think that if I had wanted to get something done when I was in business, I would have gone to the decision maker to get the deal done. We have to do it in the most transparent way possible; otherwise, we get sued. I would have thought that that was how it worked. As I said earlier, apart from what my hon. Friend the Member for St Albans said, I have never heard of lobbyists having any real influence other than what is generated by the media or within their own circle of friends, trying to inflate what they do.

I have with me information about what a number of charities are concerned about. They say that they want greater definition of regulated activities, so when the Bill is in Committee next week, we can ask those questions and get responses from the Minister on the Floor of the House. That should be good enough for a lot of charities. They are concerned, too, about whether staff costs should be included. If they are spending £800,000 on staff costs and £20,000 on leaflets, I do not know how long those charities are going to exist; if they were a business, they would not be in business for very long. It is in their own interests to gain a greater understanding of how many of their staff are involved in these campaigns. I agree with what they say about aggregate spending, and I agree that the “Enough Food for Everyone” campaign was a very important one. I believe that, as some of the charities have set out, they should be involved only for the amounts that they have popped in. The final issue relates to the levels of expenditure, and I said earlier that I agree about that.

Part 3 deals with the trade unions. I see no reason whatever why the trade unions would not want to have an up-to-date register of members, and I cannot see that this Bill will have much of an impact on most of them. Given that their subscriptions are involved, how they work on a day-to-day basis is what will count, as the unions engage with their members.

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[Mr Tom Harris (Glasgow South) (Lab)]

I am delighted to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant). I felt that I was listening to a trailer for his forthcoming biography of Parliament, and I am now even more enthused about buying my copy.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will reference the fact that there are to be two volumes of the said work. He will be making two purchases rather than one.

[Mr Harris]

As you might say, Mr Speaker, it is now on the record.

I would not want the House to believe that I have spent my whole time during this debate reading tweets, but it would be appropriate to mention at the outset that Iain Martin of The Daily Telegraph recently posted a blog entitled, “How did David ‘Big Society’ Cameron end up sanctioning a bonkers bill that bosses around charities?” I hope that it will become required reading for the Leader of the House, his deputy and all Government Members who plan to vote for this Bill. The Leader of the House has told us that it will not have the effect that many Labour Members have insisted that it will. He has a long way to go if he is still trying to persuade Telegraph journalists.

In the run-up to the 2010 general election, an organisation called Power 2010 took it upon itself to campaign personally against me and five other Members of the House because we had the barefaced cheek to have long records of opposing nonsense like electoral reform. It took out national newspaper advertising and even came to my constituency to launch a specific campaign directed at me, which was very entertaining. We got lots of its leaflets and plastered them all over my campaign office—not my publicly paid-for constituency office. That had the effect of increasing my share of the vote to above 50% for the first time since 2001, and my majority went up to 12,600.

I could therefore welcome the Bill, because if it becomes an Act that kind of campaign specifically targeting individual MPs will be outlawed, but I do not want that to happen. For a start, such a campaign is perfectly democratic. If people want to spend money faffing about and wittering on about nonsense like electoral reform, that is entirely their business and they are welcome to it. It does not have any impact on or relevance to my constituents, but if people want to spend their money on it, that is fine. Secondly, there is the effect that it had on my majority.

One of the many problems with this Bill is that it affects aspects that do not need redress and ignores aspects that do need redress. If the Deputy Leader of the House casts his mind back to last year, he will remember that the then Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport had a little bit of a kerfuffle regarding his special adviser, Adam Smith. It was clear that News International had lobbied Adam Smith to try to get a change of policy from the Government with regard to its attempt to take over Sky. We all remember the drama that ensued in this House. This Bill would not affect such a situation in the slightest, because only permanent secretaries and Ministers are now affected.

Before I came to this House I used to lobby for an organisation called Strathclyde Passenger Transport. I knew then, and I know even more now, that if I wanted to affect policy I should speak not to the Minister, but to their Parliamentary Private Secretary or SpAd. Those are the people with a direct link to the Minister and the policy-making process. This Bill does absolutely nothing.

The Bill is an obnoxious piece of proposed legislation: it is illiberal, anti-democratic and badly drafted. I am left with the conclusion that it could only have come from the Liberal Democrats. I have on my phone—I know you do not like such gimmicks, Mr Deputy Speaker—a photograph of the leader of the Liberal Democrats holding a pledge card during the last general election that reads:

“I pledge to vote against any increase in tuition fees”.

He is flanked by the then Lib Dem candidate for Cambridge, who has a smile on his face, so I guess it was before he was elected to this place. At that time, the Liberal Democrats presumably had no objection at all to a nationwide campaign by the National Union of Students targeting specific individuals to support its stance on tuition fees, but something tells me that they do not want the NUS to lead a similar campaign next time in response to their decision to do a complete U-turn on their tuition fees policy. That is what this Bill is about. It might as well have been called the “Defend Liberals in Marginal Seats Bill”, because that is what it will do.

[Mike Thornton]

Will the hon. Gentleman read out a specific part of the Bill that would outlaw the things he is saying it will? It is very interesting that I have not seen any such parts.

[Mr Harris]

If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I have only one minute and 57 seconds left, so I am sure he can find that himself.

If exactly the same Bill had been proposed by the previous Labour Government, not a single Lib Dem would have voted for it, and when the next Labour Government move to abolish the legislation—by that time I hope the Lib Dems will have retaken their traditional and rightful place on the Opposition Benches—I suspect that not a single Lib Dem MP will object to its repeal.

On 5 June I challenged the Prime Minister at Prime Minister’s questions. I asked him whether it was when an undercover reporter pretending to be a lobbyist entrapped an MP that he decided that now was the right time to launch an all-out attack on the trade unions. Where is the demand for new curbs and new regulations on trade unions? Why are Conservative and Liberal MPs so frightened of trade unions? I have been a member of a trade union my whole working life and am proud to be a member of Unite. For me that is a matter of pride; for many workers it is a matter of necessity. Why do the Conservatives still see trade unions as the enemy within? This part of the Bill simply does not need to be there. Where has the demand come from? What are they so scared of? Is it now un-British for there to be any kind of fierce political debate during election campaigns?

If the Leader of the House is right and this Bill will not result in the gagging of third parties, what is the Bill for? Either the behaviour of third parties in recent years has been unacceptable and needs to be addressed, or it has been perfectly acceptable and does not need to be addressed, in which case there is no point to this appalling Bill.