Tom Hayes
Main Page: Tom Hayes (Labour - Bournemouth East)Department Debates - View all Tom Hayes's debates with the HM Treasury
(2 days ago)
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Sir Andrew Mitchell (Sutton Coldfield) (Con)
I can make a very short speech today, Madam Deputy Speaker, because my right hon. Friend, the shadow Chancellor, in his brilliant speech at the beginning of this debate, set things out so clearly. There are common themes running through both Opposition debates today. The first is that the Government have lost control of expenditure and the second one, which I want to develop very briefly, is that the Executive have failed to listen with appropriate care to what people in this House have said.
On the first of these points, my right hon. Friend the Member for Salisbury (John Glen) said in an eloquent intervention just a few minutes ago that the Government need to work out how to fix last week’s fiasco with the welfare Bill. Far from saving money, this is virtually now another spending measure. It is important to remember that as the former Chancellor my right hon. Friend the Member for Godalming and Ash (Sir Jeremy Hunt) set out clearly, had we been successful in winning the last election, we would have reduced the number of working-age welfare recipients to pre-covid levels, thus saving £49 billion by the end of this Parliament.
The reason I focus on this welfare issue is that it is welfare expenditure with which this Government must get to grips, and they have failed to learn the lessons of the past. I was a very junior welfare Minister in what was then the Department of Social Security between 1995 and 1997. I learned two very important rules, which this Government would do well to consider. On both, it is clear that welfare reform is extremely difficult. The first is that we cannot take away from poor people benefits that they are already receiving. I think I am right in saying that no Conservative Government have ever reduced disability benefits in payment. But Labour did not absorb that vital lesson, which is why they got into so much trouble last week.
The second rule is that if a Government want to reduce the benefits bill, there are only really two ways of doing it. The first is to freeze the level of benefits; that has been done in the past, and it means not falling into the trap that the Government fell into last week. The second is to narrow the gateway into those benefits for future recipients. I urge the Government to absorb these important rules, because they will have to return to the issue of welfare expenditure if they are to make any progress at all on the economy.
I hugely praise the rebellion last week by Labour Back Benchers. They have hopefully taught the Executive a most useful lesson: listen to Back Benchers with respect and close attention. As a former Chief Whip, however, I deprecate rebellions unless I am involved in them. It usually takes years for the Executive to get into the habit of treating their Back Benchers with contempt and derision as unelected Downing Street special advisers strut up and down Whitehall, but this lot—this Government —managed to accomplish it extraordinarily quickly. They have learned the hard way not to treat their Back Benchers and elected Members with so little respect.
Tom Hayes (Bournemouth East) (Lab)
Since working at Oxfam and campaigning for tax justice, I have admired the right hon. Gentleman’s work. Were the Conservative party to listen to him, the right hon. Member for Salisbury (John Glen) and the right hon. Member for Wetherby and Easingwold (Sir Alec Shelbrooke), it could find its way back to a centrist position, which would be of benefit to our country. Will he acknowledge that this Government had a difficult inheritance; that since we came to power, we have faced a changed world, with tariffs, trade wars, sluggish global growth, rising authoritarianism and democratic backsliding; and that as a result, this Government have a harder job? Will he acknowledge that, so we can start to think about how we take forward shared improvements?
Sir Andrew Mitchell
The hon. Gentleman brings me elegantly to my final point. Having praised Labour Back Benchers and encouraged them to speak out, my one ask is that they now stand up for the election pledge, clearly set out in their manifesto, to restore development spending to 0.7%. I ask them to show the same zeal and enthusiasm as they did on welfare for bringing back the 0.7%. Inexplicably and astonishingly, their Prime Minister has cut the figure from the 0.5% they, alas, inherited from us down to 0.3%, and it is already causing massive difficulties, of which the hon. Member, with his background in Oxfam, will be fully aware.
When the House comes back in September, I urge the hon. Member, particularly given his experience, to join other Back Benchers in saying to the Executive, “We will not put up with this. We said in our election manifesto that we would restore development spending to 0.7%, and in the same way that we showed the Government Front Benchers that they could not proceed as they planned with welfare, they cannot proceed as they plan to with development spending.” I urge Labour Back Benchers to ensure that this rethink takes place in the autumn, when the folly of what has happened will be even clearer.
Bradley Thomas
My right hon. Friend the Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Sir John Hayes) is absolutely spot on. The message to the Government is clear: they cannot tax their way to prosperity.
Bradley Thomas
I will not; I have been generous with interventions.
More than half of business owners nationally are planning to, or have made, further cuts to staff numbers in response to increased employer national insurance contributions. In May, 109,000 jobs were lost in a single month. When we tax jobs out of existence, the fiscal rules are not merely stretched; they are shattered. The Chancellor will have either to break her campaign promises and raise taxes, or admit that her rules are broken. Either way, it means that working families and working people across the country will pay the price.
A fortnight ago, the Government rejected calls to protect those whose only income is the state pension from paying income tax. This retirement tax will hit 1 million of our lowest-income pensioners. This is not wealth; they are modest, often meagre incomes relied upon to heat homes, buy food and see a doctor. One in five single pensioners has no other income beyond the state pension and basic benefits, yet to fill a fiscal hole that they have created, the Government resist the plea of their most vulnerable citizens.
Bradley Thomas
I will not give way; I have been generous in taking interventions.
As the Chancellor grows increasingly desperate to save the sinking ship of her fiscal rules, there is now rumour of a wealth tax to compound the Government’s contempt for not only working people, but industry leaders and innovators. That is not conjecture. Only last week, Lord Kinnock said that Labour should be “willing to explore” such disastrous measures. Let us be honest: a wealth tax really means a tax on hard-working people. It means an attack on pensions and on people who have done the right thing and want a sense of fairness, and anyone who has accrued anything will pay the price.
Bradley Thomas
I have explained that I will not give way any further.
The nation deserves better. It deserves a Government who trust enterprise, rein in the bloated state and live within their means. I urge the House to support the motion and send a clear message: scrap the jobs tax, fix the welfare overburden, protect pensioners and give working Britain the honest, sensible Conservative growth plan it deserves.
John Glen
No, I will a bit of progress now. I will give way to the hon. Gentleman later, even though he did not give way to me earlier.
The Chancellor came to the Treasury Committee in November. She said, “We have now set the envelope for spending for this Parliament, and we will not be coming back for more tax increases or, indeed, more borrowing. We now need to live within the means that we have set ourselves in the Budget and in the allocations of those spending totals.” What has happened in a year? Of course, I recognise that events occur, and I have referred to those under the previous Government. They do present challenges, but the Labour party’s fundamental problem is understanding the effect of high burdens of tax on wealth creators and their motivation to employ people and to invest in the productive capacity of the economy—more jobs and more tax revenues from lower rates. This Government are saying that we can do a little bit more on national insurance; that we can just put a few more burdens of regulation; that the long-term capital investment of £190 billion will transform our economy.
However, what I hear from businesses in Salisbury—small or large—is that the motivation to grow a business, to employ more people, and to say that they are determined to do so because there are some rewards from that is rapidly diminishing. What we hear is speculation about which additional taxes will be imposed after the next three months. Today, Government Members have suggested equalisation of capital gains tax, a flat rate of pension relief, a wealth tax, or higher bands of council tax—although they may have been ruled out. The overall effect on top of what we have already had is for businesses to say, “I’m not going to do this anymore.” We have now had two consecutive months of negative growth. That may well continue, which is bad for everyone. It is bad for the capacity that we have as a country to invest in the transformation that we all seek to deliver on—some things we will agree on—and it is not sustainable if the Government do not recognise that businesses will not grow and expand if that tax level rises beyond a certain amount.
Tom Hayes
I thank the right hon. Member for giving way, particularly as I apparently did not give way to him. I did not realise that it was he who was trying to intervene on me, otherwise I would have given way.
I recognise what the right hon. Member is saying about covid. I think that as a country we have not yet come to the terms with the true impact of covid and we will not do so for a long time, because it still feels very near to us. As a new Member of this House, I take the point that we ought to understand the true impacts. The concern for me and perhaps for other colleagues is that by trying to focus only on covid, and not on the economic and fiscal impact of Liz Truss—I know that he was talking about the political impact—we will never learn the lessons of the Liz Truss moment, and we just do not want to lose sight of the lessons that can be learned.
John Glen
Absolutely. [Interruption.] I am told that I ought not to take any more interventions, but I will say that Liz Truss’s insight about the imperative for growth was right; we do need to look for growth. What she did not do was examine the conditions to do that in a way that the market could understand, and it had catastrophic effects.
We now have a Labour Government, and we now have working people being massively affected by tax changes. We have Andrew Bailey, Governor of the Bank of England, saying that as a reaction to the national insurance changes, businesses have made changes to employment—that means firing people—and we have Paul Johnson downgrading growth prospects, alongside virtually every other independent analyst.
The winter fuel payments were an absolute disgrace. The changes to agricultural property relief and business property relief were put on my desk at every fiscal event, but one just has to say no, because they are the wrong thing to do. The political capital that has been lost by the Government and the damage to their reputation for their stewardship of the economy is catastrophic. I say to those on the Labour Benches that we are facing some really tough challenges as we approach the next Budget. The choices that this Government need to make on taxes will define their future. What happened last week was the worst possible situation.
Several times today we have been asked, “What would you do?” What we would have done and what we would do now is take a root-and-branch look at the welfare system to see what the Government should do. We would focus on the most vulnerable and look after them well. We would recognise that one of the legacies of covid is that the pathway into benefits has gone fundamentally wrong and the country cannot afford it. Unless we grip that major driver of costs for this country, we shall see taxes rise and rise to meet those iron-clad fiscal rules, and we will be in a spiral of decline.
Sarah Bool (South Northamptonshire) (Con)
Members across the House will be familiar with the winter of discontent. In 1979—the year our Chancellor was born—the Labour Government were at the behest of their union paymasters, and refuse piled up across the country. Fast-forward 46 years: we are a year into the Chancellor’s term of office, and we have before us a summer of anxiety. We have a long and seemingly hot summer ahead of us, with the spectre of impending taxes looming. In a desperate and flawed attempt to paper over the financial chasm of Labour’s own making, the Government are targeting the hard-working people they vowed to stand for.
What has happened in Labour’s first year in office? Well, my farmers are reeling from the raid on their cash-poor industry through changes to APR and BPR, national insurance and the withdrawal of the SFI, to name but a few. The Government ask them to diversify and invest in growing their business, while simultaneously taxing them for the privilege.
The Carrdus school in South Northamptonshire is closing as a direct result of the VAT raids and the national insurance rises. Families who work hard and invest in their children’s education have been punished. Students have been displaced, teachers have lost their jobs, and standards have been hit.
Hospitality owners have said they cannot risk expansion; they are just about surviving as it stands. This year alone, over 1,000 pubs across the UK have closed—220 since April. Beauty salons and hair industry businesses in my constituency have been calling me in because they cannot take on any more apprenticeships. If things continue as they are, there will, the British Hair Consortium says, be no apprentice starts in 2027. What a legacy for this Labour Government.
Pensioners in my constituency were hit first by the removal of the winter fuel allowance, and they now face the prospect of being taxed on their pension for the first time, which is also a terrible disgrace. We have learnt a crucial lesson after a year of this Government: they are the embodiment of the phrase, “Fail to prepare, prepare to fail.” They have had years in opposition to come up with a plan, and they have failed miserably. They keep asking us what we might do. Is that because they are seeking advice from the more fiscally prudent and wise side of the House?
Sarah Bool
I can certainly give you more.
The Minister and Government Members rarely want to listen, but I raise these points on behalf of my constituents, who have asked me to do this. I implore the Government: if they want growth, they must take this summer to think again about how to achieve it, or it will be an autumn of anguish.