Armed Forces Bill

Viscount Slim Excerpts

Wednesday 6th July 2011 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Slim]

My Lords, it is always convenient to be tail-end Charlie because everything I want to say has been said so much better by other noble Lords. However, there are one or two matters I wish to raise.

From where I sit, I do not like to get too muddled in inter-party rivalry, but one or two speeches on this side of the House were a little tougher on the military covenant than on the other side. I am quite clear—I said this in the Chamber at the time—that the military covenant was bust, broken and not adhered to under the previous Administration. The noble Baroness—I do not see her in her place—quite rightly stood up and contradicted me but I was quite certain of my ground.

On the Bill, enough evidence has been given and enough worry expressed that in the new reformed mode to which we are moving—and which, I hope, as the noble Lord, Lord Burnett, said, we will debate one day pretty soon—the annual report is still not right. The Secretary of State for Defence has to stand up and not only quote the reports but represent the Ministers and Secretaries of State of all the other departments. We need to consider this issue in our future debates in order to help him; it is not a question of going against him but of assisting and helping him.

In this debate we have talked about soldiers, sailors, airmen, veterans, reservists and so on, but we have not talked about the politicians who are the key to this. In choosing their Secretary of State for Defence, future Prime Ministers will have to be very careful because the new reform states that they have got to be longer in the job; that they have got to give five-years’ worth; that they have got to do this or do that. We must have a Secretary of State for Defence who is going to be there. The job is much more like that of the executive chairman of a major corporation, where you go there every day and you are in amongst it; where you get down to detail. It is a slightly new role for a Secretary of State.

We cannot have the Secretary of State changing every so often. With great respect to the previous Administration, there seemed to be a great number of Secretaries of State—they kept coming and going—and that is not on. The military, the soldiers on the ground—the Tommies we have heard about—are not stupid. They say, “They are changing jobs; they are promoting each other; they are being sacked or whatever. They obviously do not think much of the Ministry of Defence; they do not think much of me—a soldier, sailor, airman, veteran, whatever I am”. We have to be careful. In the future the Prime Minister of the day will have to choose even more carefully his Secretary of State for Defence and his other Ministers; they are in for a longer haul.

I wish to raise a point with the Minister about which I have belaboured him enough in the past. However, I first wish to thank him. The previous Administration was good—I had meetings with the noble Lord, Lord Bach, with one or two others and with the noble Baroness, and it was wonderful—but the noble Lord, Lord Astor, has been exceptionally good; he has come out into the open, briefed us and argued with us. However, he has failed completely on one matter. I come back to what the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Craig, and the noble Baroness, Lady Fookes, mentioned, and that is the question of the chief coroner. I repeat what I have said before in your Lordships’ House: it is farcical and cruel that it takes one year, two years, three years to officially pronounce a serviceman dead. These are men and women who have fought and been killed in action for king or queen and country, and the fact that the Government will not produce a chief coroner—which the previous Administration said they would—is mean, short-sighted and rather stupid.

I have a suggestion to make to the Minister. There is a lot of pruning going on in this reform, this new organisation, among a lot of the top brass and civil servants. Mind you, I have not yet met anyone with the guts really to bring the Civil Service down to size, but there you are. Why does the MoD not recommend to the Ministry of Justice a retired general, air marshal, brigadier, admiral, or whatever rank, to be the chief coroner? As we have said in previous debates, he does not have to be a lawyer. It would actually be rather refreshing to have someone in the Ministry of Justice who is not a lawyer. What we are looking for is a leader and an administrator; there are plenty of them about in the Ministry of Defence, and you are going to chuck some of them on the heap. I believe that what coroners need is support. They need modern ways of working. They need better administration. They need a quicker process—all these sorts of things that the right man from the Ministry of Defence can do. There has been a strange silence, and no support given publicly by the Ministry of Defence or the Secretary of State for doing something about sharpening up the coroner system. That is just an idea, and I hope something happens.

I so liked what the noble Baroness, Lady Drake, said, if I may be so bold as to say so. It is of course quite right that no one should go into battle before he is 18 or over. I have to admit that I saw my first dead enemy when I was 17 and, funnily enough, it did not do me any harm. It did not make me odd, or at least no more odd than I might already have been. So it is right that we look after them.

If you go to the Army Foundation College in Harrogate, or to any of the services’ apprentices schools, you will find that they are the best schools in Britain. The education and the citizenship training there is better than the average comprehensive school, and they are better fed, too. They also get a bit of pocket money. It is from these places, and the cadet forces—which the noble Lord, Lord Freeman, knows about and has such experience of—that all our future regimental sergeant majors come. That is where the chief petty officers in the Navy come from. Some of them become officers. Do not be too worried about them coming from care homes; they come to a new home. If you talk to them, you will find that they are very happy in their new home. They are not going to go to war, but they must be supported. They will be reported on, I am quite certain, somewhere in the system, but you are quite right: maybe somewhere in the audit—if it is 30 per cent, as you were saying—it ought to come up, too.

I am all for this Armed Forces Bill, but it needs fine-tuning. We need to discuss it and we need to make it a bit better in a number of places. There is a lot of experience around the House and many noble and gallant Lords. I hope the Minister and the Government will listen, and please do something about the coroner, because I really think it is pathetic that they do not.

Armed Forces: Redundancy

Viscount Slim Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd March 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, it is a question of how one defines “meaner”. As I tried to say in my answer, we in the department think that these are fair amounts.

[Viscount Slim]

My Lords, the impression abroad is that the delay in arriving at a good and proper military covenant is that the MoD and the Government wish to get this lot out of the way, as has been discussed in your Lordships’ House this afternoon. Is it not a fact that great stress was placed in our debates in the past few weeks on the immediate need to bring forward a new military covenant that would not only set the scene for redundancies and everything else that we have been talking about, but would assume complete responsibility from the day that someone joins the services until he dies? It was made clear in several speeches that it was the responsibility of the Government to look after those who are being made redundant or who leave the services for any other reason. I say that because more and more evidence is appearing of soldiers, sailors and airmen slipping through the system, over the net and through the net, and now begging on the streets of Manchester, Birmingham and London. When will the military covenant be brought forward, so that we will know what the total responsibilities of this Government to soldiers, sailors and airmen are?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, the noble Viscount said that we give the appearance of wanting to get this lot out of the way. That is not the case. As the noble Viscount knows, we value all members of the Armed Forces. I understand that several service men and women will come forward for voluntary redundancy. The noble Viscount mentioned people slipping through the net. If he knows of any such cases, I would be very grateful if he could bring them to my attention.

As far as the military covenant is concerned, we are writing into law, through the Armed Forces Bill, the commitment that the Secretary of State for Defence will lay before Parliament every year a report on what is being done to live up to the covenant. We are committed to rebuilding the covenant to improve support for service personnel. We are doing everything we can to provide them with the right support, focused on the most important areas, despite the financial situation we inherited. We will soon publish a new tri-service Armed Forces covenant—the first of its kind. This will set out the relationship and obligations between the Armed Forces community, the Government and the nation. The report will also set out how we are supporting our Armed Forces, their veterans and families in such key areas as healthcare, housing and education. This will ensure that all future Governments must stand up for the Armed Forces.

Armed Forces: Redundancies

Viscount Slim Excerpts

Tuesday 15th February 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, with the greatest respect, this was one very unfortunate error by one individual in the Army—the noble Lord mentioned the e-mail today. In the Ministry of Defence, we go to enormous lengths to make sure that redundancies are carried out correctly, and this happens in almost every case.

[Viscount Slim]

My Lords, if one goes a little deeper, the noble Lord will recall that when he was in opposition, during the time of the previous Administration, the position of a commanding officer was gone into in considerable detail in your Lordships’ House and in Committee. The purpose was that most of us were very put out by the fact that the authority of a commanding officer was being denuded. The noble Lord might agree that this incident, as I understand it, of bypassing a commanding officer and directly talking to a warrant officer will have a very adverse effect on commanding officers in battle on operations. In the examination that the noble Lord has said is going on, I hope that the position of the commanding officer of a unit—the key man in any operation—is not being denuded or his authority removed in any way whatever.

[Lord Burnett]

Hear, hear!

Armed Forces: Post-service Welfare

Viscount Slim Excerpts

Thursday 27th January 2011 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Slim]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord King of Bridgwater, for a timely and pertinent debate. I am pleased to follow the noble Lord, Lord Sheikh, who does much for recruiting what we call the ethnic minorities. As I move among them myself a lot, I tell a British Muslim, a British Hindu or a British Sikh that it is payback time—and that it is time that more of them joined the Reserve Forces and the Regular Forces.

I worked almost monthly with at least four Ministers for Veterans from the previous Administration, and I pay tribute to them because they did a tremendous job. They woke up, as the noble Lord, Lord Addington, said, rather late—but when they woke up, great work was done. I particularly commend the veterans’ badge which they instituted. I agree with the two noble and gallant Lords that the Minister for Veterans is in the wrong place; I have always felt this. I have also found that the weakness is in local government. I suggested to the previous Administration—and I nudge the Minister now—that although Governments do not like interfering with local government, one councillor should be deputised in each local government to take on veterans’ affairs, particularly care of the wounded, both physically and mentally.

The Government talk about injury all the time, but when an overpaid soccer player gets a hack on the shins and rolls around as if he is in his last throes, he is injured. A serviceman is wounded. That word should be used more in the statistics and outpourings that our Government give. To be wounded is not much fun. However, it is a very proud thing for the individual to be wounded for his country. He is not given enough recognition today, as the noble Lord, Lord King, said, in our thinking and our daily workings. For those who are wounded, whether mentally or physically, a man or woman who takes a couple of bullets and a bunch of shrapnel or is blown up by an IED or wounded by a bit of cold steel when the fighting gets close, that is the most patriotic thing. I know that the word patriotism has not been a happy word lately in British jargon, but short of giving your life it is the next most patriotic action that you can take. We should look after these men and women.

I so agree with the two noble and gallant Lords that we need an organisation and a system—a fast track—to look after our veterans, and our wounded veterans in particular, as well as our widows. No one has mentioned widows today. I have 18,000 widows in the Burma Star Association, some of whom do not need any help but some of whom need a great deal. I understand—if I am wrong the Minister can put me right—that the Prime Minister said that he wants to look at the whole business of the military covenant and maybe write a new one or add to the one that is already there. The covenant must encapsulate the fact that we should look after a soldier, a sailor or an airman from the day he joins to the day he dies. The covenant should show an enduring responsibility for looking after the veteran.

Overall, I agree with the noble and gallant Lords that great work is being done, but we need a system and an organisation. The two words are communication—because we must be able to order and run it—and organisation. We could go on talking, but I feel that enough has been said. I do not think that we give our wounded service men and women the honour that they deserve, and I believe that something should be done about it. I am rather encouraged by what has been said today.