Viscount Younger of Leckie
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (Viscount Younger of Leckie)
My Lords, the amendments in this group make consequential provisions on the clause that the House agreed on royal charters and make some minor and technical improvements. Following the Government’s acceptance of the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, earlier this week in relation to royal charters, we have brought forward a clause dealing with the extent of this provision. We have by that amendment limited the extent to England and Wales.
The Government have been clear that they respect the right of the Scottish Government and Northern Ireland Executive to consider how they wish to respond to the recommendations of the Leveson report. Only last week, the noble and learned Lord, Lord McCluskey, presented the report of his expert panel on how Lord Justice Leveson’s recommendations could potentially be implemented in Scotland. The body created by the royal charter would be capable of operating throughout the United Kingdom, including Scotland and Northern Ireland, should the devolved Administrations want it to. The Government have been clear that whether it does so is a matter for discussion with the Scottish Government and the Northern Ireland Executive. However, it is important that we observe the boundaries between our respective powers, and it is for this reason that the extent is limited to England and Wales. This is because the measures, were they to have UK-wide extent, would also prevent Scottish Ministers or Northern Ireland Ministers from exercising their royal prerogative to make recommendations to Her Majesty in Council in respect of these devolved matters. It is therefore an issue that should be discussed more fully with the devolved Administrations to allow them the opportunity to comment.
It is important to note that nothing in this clause prevents the charter from operating across the United Kingdom, if that is desired. If the Government are asked by the Scottish Government or Northern Ireland Executive to extend the provisions, we will consider doing so.
As the Prime Minister announced in the House of Commons on Monday, the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport and the Advocate-General for Scotland will shortly have discussions with Scottish Ministers. Such discussions will also be held with Ministers of the Northern Ireland Executive. Those discussions will consider whether the extent of the new clause should be amended to go beyond England and Wales, during consideration of amendments in the other place. The amendments before us also amend the Long Title of the Bill to reflect inclusion of the new clause, and provide that the clause will come into effect on Royal Assent.
Amendments 1 and 2 are minor technical amendments relating to the UK Green Investment Bank which seek to improve the drafting of Part 1 of the Bill. Amendment 1 ensures that references to greenhouse gases throughout Part 1 of the Bill—not just in Clause 1(1), as previously—are given the same definition as in Section 92(1) of the Climate Change Act 2008. Amendment 2 clarifies that the activities referred to in Clause 5(2)(b) have the same meaning as those referred to Clause 5(2)(a).
Moving on to competition, Amendment 14 is a technical amendment to Schedule 4. It has two purposes. First, it will enable us to provide for the appointment to the CMA panel of individuals who have already served eight years on the Competition Commission panel but require temporary appointment to the CMA panel to see out an existing inquiry. Secondly, it will enable us to make clear that other Competition Commission panel members who are appointed to the CMA panel can subsequently be reappointed to the CMA panel to see out an inquiry which began when they were members of the Competition Commission panel. I beg to move.
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for introducing these amendments. We are broadly happy with the majority of them. I have just a couple of points concerning the territorial issues he talked about in relation to the royal charter, which may have eluded me. I am sure that he will be able to put me right.
As I understand it, the royal charter will operate across the whole of the United Kingdom but the intention of government Amendment 12 is to restrict the effect of the entrenchment clause—which was passed in this House on Monday—to England and Wales. However, if it is subsequently decided that the measures should be enacted for Scotland and Northern Ireland, what are the Government’s intentions? I think the Minister said that he expected that these discussions would be concluded by the time we were in receipt of any comments that the House of Commons might want to make on the Bill. If my arithmetic is correct, that is only three or four weeks away so we are putting rather a tight timetable on it. In the unlikely event that these discussions continue beyond that date, can the Minister speculate on how it would be possible to amend the Bill once it has received Royal Assent, or does he have other plans that would allow us to take that forward?
My second point is a rather narrow one. We are dealing with royal charters and therefore the territories to which they apply. While Her Majesty has been gracious in allowing her prerogatives on this point to be surrendered to Parliament, what happens to other territories, such as the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man, where the royal charter will clearly have effect but the clause of the Bill will not run because it is limited to England and Wales specifically?
Viscount Younger of Leckie
I thank the noble Lord for those questions. It is anticipated that the discussions that are going on with the Scottish Government will be concluded within three weeks, or whatever the time period is. That is obviously not guaranteed but the talks are regarded as being urgent and are happening immediately. On what would happen if they were not concluded, it is a question of wait and see. I will certainly get back to the noble Lord with a reply. On the noble Lord’s second question concerning the extension of the royal charter to the Channel Islands, I will need to get back to him with a response.
The Duke of Montrose
My Lords, I apologise for having missed the first few words spoken by the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, but I know where he was coming from. I cannot fully agree with my noble friend Lord Deben: I think it is actually the other way round. I employ a couple of agricultural workers and know the set-up as it now occurs up north. Of course, that is miles away from the historical situation that we used to have there, whereby agricultural workers had no security whatever. They had what the Scots termed a seeking-on day. If the farmer did not come and see you on your seeking-on day, you knew that you were leaving. That happened every six months.
The Agricultural Wages Board and other things came in and have satisfied that element. It has also covered a great many other things. The complaint on the other side should be that not enough agricultural workers have joined the union because the agricultural workers will be in a strong position when this is introduced. Admittedly, you get the awkward position, if there is a farmer who employs only one employee, that he could terminate his contract and immediately bring in something entirely new.
The Minister gave me a very good answer to my questions, which he was not able to provide in the debate, stating that there will be, on a new contract, no automatic right to special rates of pay, but if you sacked the only worker you had, you would immediately destroy any chance of an amicable way of working in future. Not only that, if you had to renegotiate the contract, the other side could say, “I’m going to get my union representative along, and he will make sure that you comply”. Presumably, the union will also produce its own rates of pay. Of course, we now have these various certificates that you can gain, and from that you can develop a hierarchy of pay. So I should have thought that the fear of loss, while looking obvious initially, will, as the noble Lord, Lord Curry, said, work out the other way round.
Viscount Younger of Leckie
My Lords, the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, would require Ministers to publish and lay before both Houses of Parliament an updated impact assessment of the abolition of the Agricultural Wages Board prior to the commencement of the provision to abolish the board. The House has already debated the impact of the abolition of the Agricultural Wages Board at considerable length both in Grand Committee and at Report, and has voted in favour of abolition.
The best estimate of £250 million over 10 years, which includes the potential impact on wages, sick pay and annual leave, is based on empirical academic research, which looked at wage levels in the past.
As I have made clear previously, the impact on wages, which is the largest cost, would account for only 1% of the total agricultural wages bill over the 10-year period. However, the impact assessment makes clear that there is and will remain considerable uncertainty about the impact and that in fact there may be no reduction in workers’ wages or other benefits. That is because the reality of the impact will depend on the behaviour of employers of farm workers and a range of other factors, such as relative strength of supply and demand for agricultural workers and the need to be competitive with other employers in the same area—points made most eloquently by my noble friends Lord Deben and the Duke of Montrose.
Moreover, there are a number of reasons why the impact is likely to be smaller than that suggested by the external research. A majority of workers already receive terms and conditions above the agricultural minimum wage rates, so it is probable that their wages would not be affected if the board were abolished. The underlying market conditions suggest that there will be a sustained demand for agricultural workers. Research indicates that there is a shortage of workers with relevant skills in the agricultural sector, and that that shortage is higher than comparable shortages in other areas of the economy. The agricultural workforce is also ageing, with 55% of the sector workforce aged over 45, which, again, is higher than in other sectors of the economy.
Moreover, agriculture is a huge industry, with tremendous potential for growth to meet the challenges of feeding the world’s growing population. As I said in the debate on Report, £250 million over 10 years assumes that every agricultural worker would see a relative fall in their wages compared with what they would have been due. We think that that is a highly unlikely scenario given the evidence of the demand for workers—a point made most eloquently by the noble Lord, Lord Curry. However, we deliberately decided to adopt a cautious approach in the impact assessment, given that there is some uncertainty.
Lord Whitty
No, my Lords, my assertion was that the Minister clearly did not agree with the independent research.
Viscount Younger of Leckie
My understanding was that the noble Lord was querying the letter that I wrote and I just want to clarify what I said in the letter. I said that,
“it did not take account of other factors which would have an effect on wages … for example, the supply and demand for labour, prevailing economic conditions and so forth”,
which are points that I have already made.
The noble Lord, Lord Whitty, questioned the position regarding Wales, which was also debated at some length in Committee and earlier. We have been clear throughout that we regard agricultural wages as a non-devolved matter tied to employment and wage setting. Wales Office and Defra ministers have had regular discussions with Welsh Ministers on the issue since the abolition was first proposed in July 2010. Those discussions will continue so that the transition from the Agricultural Wages Board is as seamless as possible for workers and farmers in Wales. I hope that, in part, that answers the question raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Donaghy, which concerns the need to look after the interests of farm workers during the transition.
The noble Lord, Lord Whitty, raised the issue of seasonal or migrant workers, who he stated would lose protection with the abolition of the Agricultural Wages Board. I remind him that it is the gangmasters licensing legislation that specifically protects migrant workers from exploitation, not the agricultural wages regime. General employment law provides for a high level of protection for all workers.
The noble Lord raised another issue which has been raised in the past which has no particular relevance to impact assessments. That is the issue of tied cottages. Workers in tied cottages will continue to be protected by the terms of their tenancy agreements and tenancy legislation. The Bill’s provisions will not alter the status of protected tenancies under the Rent (Agriculture) Act 1976.
We therefore do not see what purpose it would serve to publish yet another impact assessment. That point was made by my noble friends Lord Cathcart and Lord Deben. Therefore, I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, will feel able to withdraw his amendment.
Lord Whitty
My Lords, with due respect to the Minister, it might have been better had a Defra Minister replied to the debate, because some of the information that he has just given is not accurate—for example, on tied cottages and the provisions for migrant workers. The requirements under the agricultural wages order and related matters were set by the board. They are enforced by the gangmasters authority these days if they involve gangmaster labour. I think that the noble Lord needs to get back to Defra to clarify some of those things.
However, let us get to the main point. The noble Lord, Lord Deben, said that he thought that I was pushing the traditions of the House. One of the problems with this is that Ministers collectively have ignored what the House clearly decided in debate on the Public Bodies Bill only in relation to this quango. Whether we agree with its abolition or not, the Government have ignored what was clearly laid down two years ago after, as I said, bitter debate in this House and have not provided the House with adequate information or time to discuss this issue, as they have on all other quangos that they are abolishing, or else there has been a bit of new primary legislation.
That is why there is such a hoo-hah about the assessment; it is not good enough. The Minister has said that he does not agree with it. The assessment itself says that the estimate it contains was the best estimate, not, as the noble Lord, Lord Curry, and the Minister have said, the worst estimate. If we accept that Ministers have signed off on an impact assessment—this was all signed by the Minister—Ministers cannot then come to the House and say that they do not believe a word of it.
We have to start from that point. If the Government had gone through the normal procedure, we would have had a detailed Explanatory Memorandum and it would have gone through the enhanced scrutiny procedure under Section 11 of the Public Bodies Act. Instead, they have tried to cut corners. That is the problem.
That is why I do not apologise for raising the issue again. Yes, we are going over some old ground, but we are also hearing some of the old arguments. Under that procedure, what my noble friend Lady Donaghy has asked for—namely, a monitoring process so that when abolition occurs we can see what actually happens to agricultural wages—is required for other bodies that are being abolished, but it is not required here.
I find it difficult to understand those who argue that after this body disappears, nothing will happen to wages and no one will notice, as the noble Lord, Lord Deben, says. The noble Lord, Lord Curry, says that wages will probably increase. However, the only document that we have had says that although some people’s wages will go up, on average and on aggregate they will fall. That is why we need a better assessment.
This is a very minimal requirement. If we had gone down the route that the House agreed, the Minister would have been subject to far more detailed requirements and debates. He would have had to explain himself far more convincingly than he has today. All I am asking is that before we implement this measure, we get a document from the Government that does what they are required to do for every other body apart from the one that protects some rural workers.
That does not seem to be a position that the House of Lords ought to be taking in the 21st century, and it may be seen that way. Although the noble Lord, Lord Deben, says that no one will notice, there are some people who will. The noble Lord obviously has conversations with the grain barons of East Anglia and maybe they would not notice, but a lot of small farmers have objected to the abolition—in the West Country, the north and Wales—saying that this was a bigger problem. They will notice because they will have to engage in rather difficult negotiations with their one or two staff.
The people who will really notice, though, will be those who are employed relatively casually and seasonally by the element of the agricultural sector that is really pushing for this change—that is, horticulture. The people who will notice are probably not so much those who are paid above the minimum rate but those who are on the lowest wages, at the minimum rate or even below it. Those at the bottom end of the agricultural labour market are going to notice. If the Minister persists in resisting this today, we will not even be able to assess properly whether I or the Government were right. That does not seem to be a sensible position to adopt in the tradition of this House.
Although it is late at night and I do not expect to win it, I think that I need to test the position of the House so that it is quite clear and our Commons colleagues can at least look again at the arguments, because the other way in which we are breaking with tradition is that this measure has come in on Report and the House of Commons has not even had a look at it yet. I will test the opinion of the House, for what that is worth.
Viscount Younger of Leckie
My Lords, I begin by thanking noble Lords for the constructive and positive debates we have had on this clause. Responding to an amendment tabled by my noble friend Lord Clement-Jones on Report, the Government are introducing two further amendments to the clause. These amendments mean that some unpublished films and photographs will remain in copyright until 2039 at the earliest, as they do under the current law.
I acknowledged on Report that films can be commercially exploited without having been published. This is because of the legal definition of the word “published”. The same may be true of some unpublished photographs. Equally, there will be some film material and photographs in commercial archives that have yet to be commercially exploited in any sense. These archives may have built business cases on the basis that that material would remain in copyright until 2039 at the earliest and could be exploited until that point. Therefore, to provide some certainty to those businesses, the Government are exempting film and photographs from the clause.
However, a smaller proportion of unpublished films and unpublished photographs are affected by the 2039 transitional provisions than some think. Many films put on commercial release, including newsreels, will have been registered under film legislation, and the 2039 provisions do not apply to those films because they are regarded as published. With regard to photographs, only unpublished photographs taken between 1957 and 1969, whose author died during that period, are affected by the 2039 provisions. Photographs taken before 1957 were protected for 50 years from the end of the calendar year in which they were taken.
The second amendment means that regulations may provide for different provisions for work of different types and of different ages. This would mean that recent works, for example, could be treated differently from centuries-old works.
I hope that in the light of what I have said noble Lords will support these amendments. I beg to move.
Lord Clement-Jones
My Lords, I thank the Minister. If anything, what he has just said demonstrates the complexity of copyright legislation and the provisions of what is now Clause 78. One of the interesting things about this Bill is that when debating Part 6 we have continuously had to push our horizons forward. I think that when we started it was Clause 57 onwards, then it was Clause 66 onwards and it is now Clause 76 onwards, but we are very flexible and adaptable here. The amendment demonstrates not only the complexity of copyright law but the flexibility and willingness to listen that the Minister has demonstrated throughout our debate on Part 6. I welcome his response to the concerns, particularly of those in the news agencies and of photographers, about the possible impact of Clause 78, and I am delighted by the outcome.
If we were in Committee, we would probably want to probe the exact meaning of Amendment 9 to,
“make different provision for different purposes”.
However, as we are at Third Reading, I think we will let the Minister get away without too much debate on those words. They are quite wide, and the other place or whoever might wish to have a discussion about them.
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
My Lords, I echo the initial comments of the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, on this. The Minister has again shown his willingness to listen to some of the concerns that have been expressed on this matter. I welcome the two amendments in this group, although I note the points recently made, which may bear further thought. However, the Government are in the right place on this. It is a question of sticking to where we are and recognising that.
We should also recognise that this has been a complicated journey through these legislative clauses. Copyright is never an easy issue to get into. I am sure that the noble Lord would recognise that; he has always looked a bit punch-drunk when we have had discussions on it but has come up smiling, which is one of his nice characteristics. However, there are a number of difficult and complex issues underneath this. They are not going to be resolved by what is in the Bill, although we have caught up in a number of areas and that is good. This is really about setting up discussions that we will have to have in this House and another place as the various changes that are being provoked by the Hargreaves report are brought forward as what are in generic terms called “copyright exceptions”. They of course deal with a large number of issues that could have been, as we have argued, contained in this Bill but have been left deliberately to secondary legislation. That is not to say that we will necessarily agree with everything that we see when that comes through. There have to be a lot of complicated discussions on some of these points. We welcome the opportunity to have those, based on where we are now. On that basis, I am happy to agree with these amendments.
Viscount Younger of Leckie
My Lords, I will make a few brief comments. I thank those who have contributed to this short debate: the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, the noble Earl, Lord Erroll, and my noble friend Lord Clement-Jones. I am pleased that the amendments have been accepted, in general, in the spirit in which they were intended. To take up the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, it is true that copyright is a complex issue. There are polarised views from both sides. We all recognise that.
I listened intently to the comments of the noble Earl, Lord Erroll. It would be good if I wrote extensively to him concerning the point of extending the provisions beyond normal photographs, to put it crudely. The noble Earl asked whether photographers’ concerns could be addressed regarding Amendment 9. A relatively small number of photographs are covered by the 2039 provisions: as he may know, it is only those taken between 1957 and 1969. Those who want to use those photographs could seek a licence or use orphan work for business. However, I will follow this with a more thorough response to the noble Earl.
“() make different provision for different purpose;”
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
My Lords, my noble friend Lord Howarth, when introducing this amendment, mentioned that in Parliament as a whole there was a genuine sense that issues to do with copyright were dealt with in a non-partisan way, and he explained some of the background to the CDP Act 1988 and to the Digital Economy Act. This debate has shown that the spirit lives on. I stress that I do not think that this is a partisan issue; we are all very interested in this new and broadly welcome provision, which anticipates the EU directive and perhaps gold-plates it a little. However, there is no doubt that we need an orphan works scheme. It is right that it should be introduced and we are backing it all the way. Within that it is absolutely clear that rights holders must be remunerated if they wish. However, as many of them will not be easy to find, a diligent search of a high standard must be carried out. I recognise that the way to prove all that is to create this escrow account approach, and that that should be done for a reasonable period. However, the more one listens to the points that are made round here, the more one feels that this is going in the wrong direction in this respect. As virtually all speakers have said, surely it cannot be in the best interests of the Government to tax the institutions that are expected to carry out this work and mainly benefit from it. That cannot be right. The Minister was reported in Hansard as saying that if the escrow funds were building up and not being used, they could be used to defray the costs of running the licensing body, to pay for preservation costs and for training. However, that escrow funding is the money that would be paid to rights holders, so it does not really belong to the licensing body to do with it as suggested.
We are at the fringe of moving in the wrong direction here. It would be sensible if the Government were to pause and think about this again. This is a good scheme and is the right thing to do, but perhaps there is a way in which one can retain the funds that are going to be held for potential rights holders within the original institutions. At least then they would have the benefit of the money even if they could not allocate it, and the sensibility that this somehow was a taxation scheme would be avoided because it would not work. It would be the worst of all possible worlds if, at the end of this process of trying to get these proposals scheduled and incorporated in legislation, the whole scheme was stillborn because people could not see how it could be financed. I very much want to hear what the Minister has to say on this matter. Some movement towards the position of the noble Lord, Lord Howarth, would be much appreciated.
Viscount Younger of Leckie
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Howarth, for his amendments. They raise important issues and I trust that I can provide some satisfactory assurances. I say at the outset that I very much welcome his support for an orphan works scheme and, indeed, for the principle that creators should be paid. He recognises that there is a balanced approach to this issue in this respect.
Regarding Amendment 10, the Government agree that there will need to be a full and proper evaluation of the effectiveness of the orphan works scheme, and its impact on users and rights holders. That is why the Government have committed to a review of the functioning of the scheme one year after it is fully functional. This post-implementation review would be undertaken by the orphan works authorising body and would include, for example, data on the number of orphan works registrations, and permissions issued by the authorising body. The scope of any review, as determined by discussions with stakeholders, would be incorporated into the authorising body’s regulations. I assure the House that the outcome of the review will be reported to Parliament.
Separately, the Government have committed to another impact assessment of the orphan works scheme in April 2015: that is, one year after the scheme is fully operational. According to government guidance, the first review of regulations,
“should in most cases be carried out and published no later than five years after the relevant regulation comes into force”.
In undertaking to do a post-implementation review after one year, with accompanying impact assessment, the Government’s plans will be fully consistent with these principles and guidance.
Amendment 11 would require regulations to make provision that unclaimed fees paid for the use of orphan works were returned to the licensee within a five-year period. Under the proposals currently in the Bill, in the event that fees remain unclaimed for the licensed use of an orphan work, a variety of options are possible: for example, unclaimed fees could be used to help creators; subsidise the cost of running the orphan works scheme—I believe that that point was raised by the noble Lord, Lord Howarth—pay for preservation costs in public institutions; or pay for industry training. I know that there are wide-ranging views on the appropriate use of unclaimed fees. This is why the wording in the Bill is permissive; it requires regulations to deal with this issue but does not rule any particular option in or out. It does not rule out the return of the fee to the licensee. The current wording allows for further consideration of all these options, with the input of all relevant stakeholders.
The noble Lord, Lord Howarth, supported by the noble Earl, Lord Erroll, raised the issue of the money going to the Exchequer. The use of the funds will be the subject of a full consideration. I hope that gives some reassurance to noble Lords. In other words, all options are open and there will be no presumption that the money will go to the Treasury under this scheme. I hope that that also reassures the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton. The noble Baroness raised a related matter concerning how long the money would sit in bona vacantia. As a general principle, money falling into bona vacantia is dealt with by the Treasury Solicitor, and there is no time period as such. I do not know whether that helps. I hope the House will agree that this is the right way forward. I again assure the noble Lord that it is the Government’s intention that the licence fee for the use of an orphan work should be proportionate to the type of use. However, particularly where orphan works are used commercially, the Government believe it is vital that the conditions of use do not inadvertently undermine the market for known works, particularly, for example, where we are concerned with the livelihoods of creators such as photographers.
The noble Lord, Lord Howarth—
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
I am sorry to interrupt the noble Viscount but this is a crucial point. Will he go back over what he said as I was slightly confused by the wording? Is he saying that before any decision is taken about how the money held in the escrow account is to be utilised if no claims are taken up in the five-year period—that money is held against potential claims—there will be full consultation about that? He used the word “consideration”. If he could confirm that it is a consultation process and that all options are on the table for that, we would be very reassured.
Viscount Younger of Leckie
The word I used was “consideration” rather than “consultation” but there is a fine line between the two. I must stick with “consideration” but I think the best thing to do is to define precisely what is meant by “consideration”. My understanding—I give this commitment today—is that “consideration” does indeed mean consultation. However, I would like to follow up with yet another letter to confirm that.
On Report, the noble Lord, Lord Howarth, concluded that a search would be required for each and every rights holder. The orphan works scheme never intended to promise mass digitisation without a prior diligent search. If we wanted to do this, we would have to find another means of achieving it as the scheme we are now considering could not do so. That might be achieved using ECL, but that depends on the existence of the relevant collecting societies. Those are all questions that we cannot answer at this point.
My noble friend Lord Clement-Jones asked whether there could be a review of orphan works produced as part of an annual report. This seems to be a sensible suggestion. I will certainly consider this idea, along with my officials. He also asked about sublicensing and whether it would be permitted. Every act will require a licence. If someone wishes to use an orphan work—for example, in a television documentary—the licence will need to cover all the issues envisaged. The licensing body will not be able to delegate its powers to license to another person. The provision for orphan work licensing will be construed restrictively by the courts.
On this basis, I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Howarth, feels able to withdraw his amendment. As he considers his reply, and before I conclude, as this is the last group of amendments, I would like to take this opportunity to thank all noble Lords who have participated in our many and varied debates on the important issues covered by the Bill during its passage through this House. As ever, they have brought considerable experience to our debates. In particular, the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, has led the opposition Front Bench in an insightful and wise way and has rightly subjected the detail to a constructive challenge. We sing in harmony in the Parliament choir—he is more harmonised than me—and we have managed to find a pretty good degree of harmony on this Bill.
It is certainly the case that the Bill is better for the scrutiny that it has received in this House. I should like to place on record my thanks in particular to my noble friend Lady Stowell for her able support on the equalities provisions. I thank the House officials, the Hansard writers and especially the Bill team and all officials who have been deeply involved in supporting me so ably.
Lord Stevenson of Balmacara
My Lords, it would be wrong of me to let the noble Viscount’s concluding remarks pass, particularly as I was named. I also thank him for his considerable work on the Bill, his courtesy during debate, and his incredible letter-writing abilities. I have never been in receipt of so many letters, both by e-mail and by hand. Sometimes people actually checked up whether a letter had arrived that I had not even received. It was helpful to know that it was on its way. We even received three further letters overnight in anticipation of this debate. It shows the quality of the service that we received. I am sure that the noble Viscount will accept that that was not entirely his work.
I also thank the Bill team, although not all of them are present. I hope that my words will go back to those who are not here. The team has been extremely helpful in giving us information and facilitating meetings. I also thank my Front Bench team, the noble Baronesses, Lady Worthington, Lady Hayter and Lady Thornton, and the noble Lords, Lord Young, Lord Whitty and Lord McKenzie, who, along with our legislative support team, have taken much of the load off my shoulders and done a brilliant job in scrutinising the legislation. It has been four months—a considerable amount of one’s time—since we began consideration of the Bill. That explains why the choir has been bereft of our support during that time.
The Bill runs to 266 pages, which, as the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, reminded us, is a bit more than when it was first published. That represents a fair number of trees. This was never going to be an easy job. It is also important to put on record that the Bill did not come to us sanctified by work in another place. A lot of changes were added just as the Bill left the House of Commons, and the Government have added a number of measures while we have been considering it. There will presumably be further consideration in another place on matters such as health and safety, abolition of the Agricultural Wages Board and Midata, which were never discussed in the House of Commons. I should be interested to see what happens when the Bill comes back after Easter.
As the Minister said, the Bill is in a better shape from its time here. It was amended and concessions were offered on 27 major points, which is pretty good. I do not claim credit for them all but in the spirit of bipartisanship, I think we can agree that in most cases the changes were of benefit. There are one or two matters on which we divided, but I am sure that the Government will want to reflect carefully on whether they wish to change the will of the House, which was expressed in many cases narrowly, but nevertheless firmly. I hope that those matters will weigh heavily on the Government.
It has been a most enjoyable time, made better by the good responses that we have received, and I hope that the Bill will fulfil its purposes, even though in some areas it never quite lived up to its name.
“( ) section 92 extends only to England and Wales.”
“( ) section 92;”
“( ) The power conferred by section 95 includes power to make provision for the appointment of panel members of the Competition Commission as members of the CMA panel, or for the re-appointment of persons who are appointed as members of the CMA panel by virtue of sub-paragraph (2), for the purpose of enabling anything in the process of being done by or on behalf of the Competition Commission immediately prior to its abolition to be completed by or on behalf of the CMA; and nothing in sub-paragraphs (1) to (4) restricts the provision that may be made for that purpose.”