Pension Schemes Bill

Viscount Younger of Leckie Excerpts

Thursday 5th February 2026 Grand Committee

[Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (LD)]

My Lords, I wish only to say that I agree with the comments from the noble Baroness, Lady Altmann, and the lengthy exposition from the noble Lord, Lord Davies. I give them my support.

This group deals with technical amendments in the main, but they go to a question of basic fairness for pensioners whose schemes have failed. There are eight amendments in the Minister’s name, which shows that Bills can be amended, because the Government are amending their own Bill. Their amendments are no less important than those proposed on this side of the Room or those proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Davies, on the other.

The Government have accepted the principle of restoring inflation protection for pre-1997 service in the PPF and the FAS. These amendments ensure that the policy operates as intended, covering cases where the schemes technically add indexation rules that did not apply to all pre-1997 service.

The concern here is consistency and completeness. As has been said by other speakers, without these clarifications, some pensions will fall through the cracks due to historic scheme design quirks, rather than any distinction of principle. Any schemes that were and will be proposed will have quirks that are going to be found out in due course. I ask the Minister to confirm that the Government’s intention is to deliver equal treatment for those with equivalent service histories and that no group will be excluded because of technical anomalies.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

My Lords, I will mainly speak to and concentre on the government amendments in this group. I start by thanking the Minister for setting them out so clearly. We welcome the additional clarity that they provide.

In particular, these amendments ensure that the Financial Assistance Scheme and the PPF payments are treated consistently where a pension scheme formally required pre-1997 indexation but where that requirement did not in fact apply to the specific pre-1997 service for which financial assistance is being paid. Put simply, this is a technical clarification to ensure that indexation under the FAS reflects a member’s actual scheme entitlement, even where a scheme nominally provided for pre-1997 indexation but did not apply it to the service being compensated. We believe that this is a useful and sensible point of clarification—one that helps to ensure that the system operates as it should do.

However, I would be grateful if, when she closes, the Minister could confirm that it is now the Government’s view that these amendments are sufficient to close what may previously have been a gap in the original drafting. In particular, can she confirm that the Government are satisfied that these changes are enough to avoid confusion, to avoid the risk of legal challenge and to ensure that the Financial Assistance Scheme remains, in essence, what it should be—a safety net—rather than becoming an unintended upgrade?

I want also to make a broader process point, because these changes emerged relatively late in proceedings in the other place. I would welcome assurances from the Minister that the relevant stakeholders have been properly consulted and that the Government do not anticipate the need for further amendments on this issue in the Commons—or, indeed, as the Bill continues to go through Parliament. The Minister for Pensions, Torsten Bell, has previously stated that this change will affect around 250,000 members of the PPF, increasing their pension payments by an average of around £400 a year. The Minister cited that figure in her opening remarks, but is that still the Government’s firm and final assessment of the scale and impact of this measure? Perhaps the Minister could clarify that for us.

I also note the comments made by Sara Protheroe, the PPF’s chief customer officer, who said:

“While implementing this change will be no small task”—


that is probably an understatement—the PPF is

“fully committed to delivering this at the earliest opportunity if and when it becomes law”.

That welcome commitment raises an important practical question for the Government, does it not? What assessment has the Minister made of the extra resources that might be required? What support will be provided to the PPF to ensure that delivery can take place smoothly and without delay? Have the Government assessed whether additional resources, which could come via capacity or funding, will be required to implement this change effectively? If so, how do they intend to provide that support?

Regarding Amendment 203ZB, in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Davies, I will have more to say in subsequent groups. As the noble Lord said, there are amendments on the FAS and PPF in three different groups today. I hope that the Committee will forgive me if I delay my brief comments. I also listened carefully to the remarks from the noble Lord, Lord Palmer, and the noble Baroness, Lady Altmann. It is best that I make comments in later groups.

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[Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (LD)]

My Lords, I will briefly speak in support of the amendments. I emphasise that they look at how to do this by lump-sum payments, rather than by increasing pensions. That is important. It is what we in my profession used to call “creative accountancy”. It seeks to achieve a result by lump sums, more or less off the Government’s balance sheet. There has been some blending of the funds in the past. It is a way of doing it in a creative accountancy way, largely getting rid of the problem by lump-sum payments. I hope that the Government will look at this in a creative way in order to provide some justice without incurring an ongoing debt.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

My Lords, I will speak to Amendments 187A, 188A, 189A and 203ZA tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Altmann. She has long been a formidable and principled advocate for pension savers and much of the Committee will be sympathetic to the underlying concerns that she raised in her remarks. In particular, her consistent focus on member protection, governance and long-term security has materially shaped the debate on pensions policy over many years—and rightly so.

However—the Committee might expect me to say this—while I share the noble Baroness’s objectives, I am not persuaded that the amendments, as drafted, strike the right balance in this instance. I listened carefully to her remarks and her constructive suggestions as to how such payments could be made in the form of lump sums, whether through several lump sums or another way. As ever, she is constructive and positive, and I accept that. These amendments would use the Pension Protection Fund and the Financial Assistance Scheme to make retrospective lump-sum payments to compensate for unpaid historical indexation. We think that that would represent a significant shift in principle.

I listened carefully, as I always do, to the remarks from the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Brixton, who called retrospection a red herring. I was not absolutely sure what he meant by that. As I see it, retrospection is just that: retrospection. I think that it describes the payments in the way that it is meant to do. However, the PPF was designed as a forward-looking safety net, not as a mechanism for reopening past outcomes or making retrospective compensation payments. The Minister, to be fair to her, made this clear in her closing remarks in previous groups.

Such an approach would raise serious concerns about cost, complexity and consistency. Although we are somewhat clearer about costs from the helpful remarks from the Minister in the previous group, I am still uncertain—as, I think, other Members of the Committee are—about what the overall costs would be and what the impact would be on the levy and on other contributors. That uncertainty makes me cautious about supporting these amendments, which risk turning a clearly defined insurance mechanism into an open-ended compensation scheme. I suspect that the Minister—without wanting to steal her thunder—may take a similar view in her response, judging from her remarks in the previous group.

[Baroness Altmann (Non-Afl)]

The noble Lord just said that this would impact on the levy, but if there is a one-off payment, it would not affect the scheme going forward. Therefore, it should not impact the levy at all; it is a lump-sum payment rather than an increase in the base pension payable going forward.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

As ever, that is a very helpful clarification, but I will leave it up to the Minister to answer that. I stick with my view that we are not persuaded by these amendments. Perhaps there is more debate to be had. I have said all that I need to say; I am afraid that I am unable to support these amendments.

[Baroness Sherlock (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness for introducing her amendment and all noble Lords who have spoken. I am afraid the noble Viscount has given a spoiler regarding my response, because I articulated many of the arguments on this in the previous group in response to my noble friend Lord Davies.

The Government recognise that pre-1997 indexation is an important issue for affected PPF and FAS members. That is why we listened and took the action that we did. The changes proposed by Amendments 186A, 187A, 188A and 189A would, essentially, award payments of arrears for PPF and FAS members who have missed out on pre-1997 increases up to now. As the noble Baroness described, that would mean a one-off lump-sum payment to be made from the PPF reserve. Amendment 203ZA would require the Secretary of State to determine how those additional payments would be funded in FAS.

I acknowledge the impact on members. This has been a long-running issue and, for reasons that noble Lords have clearly articulated, members will want to see their increases quickly now that we have made a decision to act. As I said, we expect that the first payments will be made to eligible PPF and FAS members in January 2027, which is the earliest possible opportunity to do so, and we are working closely with the PPF on implementing that. I recognise that prospective increases do not restore the erosion of the real-terms value of members’ retirement incomes. However, the Government’s reforms will make a meaningful difference to affected members while balancing the impact on levy payers who support the PPF, taxpayers who pay for FAS and affordability for the Government.

In response to the question from the noble Baroness, Lady Altmann, any payment that comes out of the PPF reserve will reduce the size of that reserve and therefore, in our judgment, must make it more likely that there may be a need for a levy to be reintroduced at some point. I shall come back to the arguments in a moment, as I said to my noble friend, but I have noted the importance of responsible management of the PPF reserve following the introduction of our reforms. The noble Baroness’s proposal—creative though it is, and I acknowledge that—would clearly also reduce the reserve. Although the reserve is forecast to grow, without a really substantive PPF levy the PPF will depend on its reserves and its investment returns to manage the risks from existing liabilities and future claims across the £1 trillion DB system.

Historically, the PPF has supported nearly £10 billion in claims, funded in part by the amount collected through levies. Without future levies, the reserve has to cover upcoming claims. The reserve offers protection against future risks, such as new claims and longevity risks, and, as I have said, avoids the need for a significant levy reintroduction. I also noted the significant public finance implications of changes in my earlier remarks.

The Government have not made an assessment of the noble Baroness’s proposal because we considered carefully what we thought it was appropriate to do. We worked with the PPF and fully considered the broader context of introducing pre-1997 indexation in both the PPF and FAS. In the end, it is the responsibility of the Government to strike an affordable balance of interest between all parties. We believe our reform achieves that. This measure is a fundamental shift in the level of protection afforded by the PPF and FAS to their members, but we think that is right and the appropriate balance. In the light of that, I hope the noble Baroness will feel able to withdraw her amendment.

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[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

My Lords, I will speak to Amendment 203 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Brixton, and I am grateful to him for his tour d’horizon on the history behind this issue with the uprating, going back through several parties and Parliaments. Like the noble Baroness, Lady Altmann, I fully understand why members find this proposal attractive. The idea that pensions should keep pace with inflation feels intuitively fair, of course, but we think that mandating inflation increases for all pre-1997 service in live defined benefit schemes would be a step too far.

This amendment would dictate in statute how trustees and employers must use scheme resources and any surplus. We believe that this is overly prescriptive and risks being actively anti-business. Many employers are already using DB surpluses constructively, and that includes improving DC contributions for younger workers, supporting intergenerational fairness, and strengthening scheme security through insurance-backed arrangements and special purpose vehicles. We think that these are sensible negotiated outcomes, reflecting the needs of both members and sponsors.

It is also important to remember that employers have carried DB risk for decades. When funding assumptions proved wrong, when markets fell or when longevity rose faster than expected, it was employers who stepped in, often for many years, through additional contributions and balance sheet strain—that might be an understatement. I choose to use a casino analogy, not to make light of a serious subject but to illustrate the basic logic of risk sharing. Here goes.

In a defined benefit scheme, the employer and members effectively walk into a casino together. Trustees place bets on behalf of the scheme on how much risk to take in the investment strategy, what funding assumptions to use, how quickly to de-risk, how to price longevity and inflation exposure. Members benefit if those bets perform well because the scheme is safer and more likely to deliver the promised pension in full. But, crucially, if those bets go wrong—that is, if markets fall, inflation spikes, people live longer than expected or the assumptions prove too optimistic—the bill lands not on members but on the employer. The sponsoring employer is legally on the hook to repair the damage, often through years of additional contributions, cash calls at the worst possible moment and significant strain on the balance sheet. That is what the employer covenant means in practice: it is the backstop when the world does not behave as forecast, which, as we know, it often does not.

So, if we accept that the employer is the party that must cover the losses when the scheme is underwater, surely it cannot be right to argue that, when the scheme comes in above water—when investment returns are strong, funding improves and a surplus emerges—the employer must be barred in principle from any share of that upside. That is not risk sharing; it is risk asymmetry. Heads, the members win; tails, the employer loses. In any rational system, if one party is compelled to underwrite the downside, that party must be permitted—subject, of course, to trustee oversight and member protection—to share in the upside. If we legislate for a system where the sponsor carries all the risk but is denied any benefit when outcomes are good, surely we distort incentives. We make sponsorship less attractive and encourage employers to close schemes faster, de-risk more aggressively or avoid offering good provision in the first place.

This is a crucial point. The fair outcome is not that employers take everything or that members do. It is that surplus is discussed and allocated jointly by trustees and employers, balancing member security, scheme sustainability and the long-term health of the sponsoring employer. That is partnership. Legislation should support that balance but not override it; that is a crucial point.

Mandating automatic inflation uplift would also have wider consequences: higher employer costs; increased insolvency risk, ultimately borne by the PPF; knock-on effects on wages, investment and employment; and, potentially, higher PPF levies. For PPF schemes, uplift is manageable because the employer covenant has gone and Parliament controls the compensation framework. Imposing similar requirements on live schemes, however, risks destabilising otherwise healthy employers. In short, uplift should be an option, not a statutory obligation. As I said earlier, decisions should rest with trustees and employers together and not be compelled by legislation.

That said, focusing on choice does not mean ignoring power imbalances, because in some schemes genuine deadlock leads trustees to sit on surplus and de-risk further. That may be understandable, but I think it is fair to say it is inefficient. Government should be looking at how to enable better use of surplus by agreement, not mandating outcomes. Much more needs to be done on breaking deadlocks, but we believe that Amendment 203 is not the right way to do it.

[Baroness Altmann (Non-Afl)]

May I just correct the record? I believe that the Goode committee may indeed have recommended limited price inflation up to 5%, and I apologise to the Committee.

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Moved by

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

205: After Clause 117, insert the following new Clause—
“Review of pension awareness and saving among young people(1) The Secretary of State must, within 12 months of this Act being passed, carry out a review into—(a) levels of pension awareness and understanding among young people, and(b) the effectiveness of existing measures to support young people to begin saving into a pension.(2) The review must consider—(a) barriers to pension saving faced by young people, including low earnings, insecure work, and gaps in financial education,(b) the impact of the automatic enrolment age and earnings thresholds, and(c) options to improve engagement, participation, and long-term retirement outcomes for younger savers.(3) The Secretary of State must lay a report of the review before Parliament.”Member’s explanatory statement
This amendment requires the Government to review pension awareness among young people and to consider how existing policy could better support earlier engagement and saving into pensions.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

My Lords, Amendment 205 in my name would require the Government to review levels of pension awareness among young people and to consider how existing policy might better support earlier engagement with pension saving. Members of the Committee will have noticed that I have included certain steers as to what the review should focus on; I hope that this brief debate will enable Members to agree largely with what we are trying to do here.

For many people in their 20s and 30s, pension saving is driven almost entirely by automatic enrolment. In one respect, this is a success story: it clearly illustrates the impact that automatic enrolment has had, with around 71% of young people in full-time employment now contributing to a pension and often benefiting from employer contributions, tax efficiency and the long-term advantages of compounding. Of course, there are opt-outs, but I am pleased to say—I hope that the Minister will confirm this—that opt-out rates remain relatively low.

Progress is, therefore, welcome. However, it still leaves nearly one-third of young people not saving at all. Starting to contribute at a younger age makes an enormous difference. Compound interest, where returns build, not only on contributions but on previous returns, means that early saving is particularly powerful. Small amounts saved early can matter more than much larger sums saved later.

Yet, the reality facing young people is difficult. Surveys consistently show that younger generations face an uphill financial struggle. For many, and I remember how I felt in my early 20s, retirement feels distant and abstract, something to worry about later, rather than now. Unsurprisingly, confidence among those aged 25 to 44 about their later life savings is among the lowest of any age.

We need to understand why this is the case. It is not enough for policy bodies to list familiar explanations, such as behavioural bias, lack of knowledge or low trust, and then publish discussion papers. The Government need to know in detail what is actually preventing young people engaging with pensions. If automatic enrolment is still leaving out around one-third of eligible workers, more work clearly needs to be done. As with most things in pensions policy, the answer will be complicated, but complexity is not an excuse for inaction.

We should be clear that automatic enrolment alone is not sufficient to deliver an adequate income in retirement. Of course, I am very aware that the pensions review will be looking at this as its stage 2 focus, and I will talk more about that later. Will the pensions review properly examine these barriers to saving among the young? If not, why not? I ask the Government to give a response on this.

Young people are often focused on more immediate priorities: for example, saving for a house deposit, building an emergency fund or paying off student loans understandably come first and spring to mind; pensions, as I said earlier, are seen as something for later life. But time does not pause and there are real benefits to saving early. Early contributions help smooth out market volatility and allow savers to benefit fully from compounding over decades. Most young people will be in defined contribution schemes, where these effects matter greatly.

There is also a deeper issue of confidence. Nearly half of Gen Z believe that the state pension will not exist by the time they retire. This is a generation shaped by repeated economic shocks, from the financial crisis to the pandemic and the cost of living crisis triggered by the war in Europe. For them, pensions can feel less like a promise and more like a relic. The question is, what do we do about it? I am disappointed, as I said earlier, that pension adequacy appears only in the second stage of the review. In my view, and many people’s views, this should be a priority. Your Lordships should be asking whether lowering the automatic enrolment age, removing the lower qualifying earnings band or increasing minimum contribution rates would deliver better outcomes.

We should be asking what more can be done to reduce the barriers that discourage young people from saving at all. This is why the amendment seeks to require the Government to move faster to review pension awareness among young people and how existing policy would better support early engagement—that is, to move now and not wait until stage 2.

Finally, reverting to the barriers that I alluded to, I will make one final point, which is on the question of compulsion—just to get my oar in on this before the end of today’s proceedings. Mandation, or even the threat of it, will fall most heavily on younger savers, a point made powerfully by my noble friend Lord Fuller earlier in the week. It risks burdening a generation who are 30 or 40 years away from retirement and who already face significant disadvantage within the system. There is already generational unfairness in pensions policy and we believe that mandation would only entrench this. It should have no place in the Bill, but we have rehearsed those arguments before. Without further ado, I beg to move.

[Lord Sharkey (LD)]

My Lords, I will speak briefly but enthusiastically in support of Amendment 205. The case for a review was eloquently put by the noble Viscount, Lord Younger, and its merits are surely obvious. I hope the Minister will be able to agree with that.

In particular, I hope the review will take a close look at the situation that many Gen Z people find themselves in. Many work in the gig economy or are self-employed. The Gen Z average savings are small: 57% have pots smaller than £1,000 according to PPI data, and half of them cannot estimate their pots in any case. Perhaps alarmingly, 45% of Gen Z people rely heavily on social media for financial information—presumably delivered by animated cats. The proposed review could and should examine this in much more detail.

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We share a desire to ensure that young people are saving enough for the future, but I hope that the noble Viscount will understand that, while I share his enthusiasm to address this issue, I do not think that this is the best way forward. Let us allow the commission to complete its vital work, which will explore the important questions of pension adequacy and how to improve outcomes for future generations. I look forward to receiving its recommendations and discussing them in detail with interested noble Lords; I assume they will affect everybody in the Room. In the meantime, I hope that the noble Lord will feel able to withdraw his amendment.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

My Lords, I will make just a few rounding-up comments. I am very pleased to have the support for my amendment from the noble Lord, Lord Sharkey, from my noble friend Lady Neville-Rolfe in particular, and from the noble Baroness, Lady Altmann. It was very helpful to hear from my noble friend Lady Neville-Rolfe the information she received directly from the review that she undertook into retirement age.

The Minister referred to the importance of education; I took note of her very helpful answers on what is happening at the sharp end of schools. I also took note of the comments from the noble Baroness, Lady Altmann, and the helpful suggestions that the regulators could perhaps play a more proactive role in this area.

I believe that Amendment 205 is modest but necessary. If we are serious about improving retirement outcomes, we must start by understanding why so many young people are disengaged and by shaping policy that meets them where they are, rather than where we wish they were.

I am delighted to see that the noble Baroness, Lady Drake, is in her place. We are all very keen to know what will come out from the Pensions Commission.

One question I put to the Minister now is about the timings. My understanding is that stage one will report in early 2027—one year’s time—but stage two, which is on this subject of pensions adequacy, will be at a later stage. Can the Minister clarify those timings, as they are still a bit unclear? I understand that she is undertaking a huge amount of very important work, but that would be very helpful.

[Baroness Sherlock (Lab)]

I will simply say that there will be a report early next year. I am very happy to write to the noble Lord to confirm any future timings.

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[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

I appreciate the answer to that. In the meantime, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment 205 withdrawn.