(13 years, 4 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)
1. What recent discussions he has had on steps to deal with the past in Northern Ireland.
The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr Owen Paterson)
My hon. Friend the Minister of State and I have met with political parties, community organisations, academics and victims groups from across the community to discuss dealing with the past. We will continue to listen to the views of people in Northern Ireland to find a way forward on this sensitive and contentious issue.
Mr Campbell
The Secretary of State made a commitment, which he repeated several times, that there would be no more costly, open-ended inquiries. Any decision by him to hold a further, restricted inquiry—for example, into the Pat Finucane incident—would be opposed on the one hand by nationalists and republicans, but regarded by others as a prerequisite for long-standing grievances, against the Irish Republic’s Government, for example, to be inquired into. Is it not more sensible and consistent for the Secretary of State to say, “We’ve reached the end of the inquiry road”?
Mr Paterson
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his question. He is quite right: our stated policy is that we do not want to see any more costly and open-ended inquiries. However, my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister said during the debate on the Saville statement that we would look at individual cases. Our position on the Finucane case—a contentious case, as the hon. Gentleman knows—was laid out clearly in my written ministerial statement on 11 November.
Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con)
At the risk of broadening the question from the previous exchange, let me say to the Secretary of State that coming to terms with history is the responsibility of us all. Those who are British, those who are Irish and those who are both welcome the progress that has been made over the past few years and recognise that many have contributed to it.
Mr Paterson
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We want to bring as broad a range of people as possible into the process of negotiation, so that when we arrive at a means of going forward, as many people as possible have bought into it.
Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)
The Secretary of State will know that the Attorney-General for Northern Ireland is in the process of reopening a large number of historical inquests, which will place significant additional financial burdens on the Courts Service and the police service. Given the Government’s responsibilities in relation to the past, how does the Secretary of State intend to approach the sharing of those costs?
Mr Paterson
The right hon. Gentleman played a key role in seeing those powers devolved. He will know that the administration of inquests is a devolved matter that is entirely in the hands of the Attorney-General for Northern Ireland. It would not be for us to interfere in the mechanics and financing of his Department, which are entirely down to the local Executive.
Mr Shaun Woodward (St Helens South and Whiston) (Lab)
Given the commitments by the British and Irish Governments at Weston Park, and the commitment by those Governments to an inquiry into the death of Pat Finucane, does the Secretary of State recognise that it would be unwise for the British Government to act unilaterally?
Mr Paterson
The right hon. Gentleman knows perfectly well that this is not an easy case, as he had three years to resolve the matter, as the real Secretary of State. He effectively ended up with a Mexican stand-off, where the family wanted one thing and he wanted them to have an inquiry, as I understand it, under the Inquiries Act 2005. He knows that this is not an easy matter to resolve, and that is why I had a helpful meeting with Mrs Finucane and her son. I laid out the process that we intend to follow in my written ministerial statement of 11 November.
Mr Woodward
The right hon. Gentleman will know that I have also met with Geraldine Finucane. I pay tribute to the way in which she has conducted herself, as I know he has too. However, notwithstanding his remarks about future inquiries, now that he is the real Secretary of State—as he described it—is he beginning to understand the damage that could be done to community support for the devolved institutions and to the British Government if he were to renege on existing undertakings, made by a previous Government and supported by his party in opposition, to independently investigate the past?
Mr Paterson
I cannot fail to point out that the right hon. Gentleman did not meet Mrs Finucane when he was the Secretary of State. I wrote to her in June, and I had a meeting in November, which was the time that the family chose, and we had a very sensible discussion. He knows that this is not an easy issue to resolve, and I laid out very clearly in the written ministerial statement that a number of issues have to be considered. We are quite open-minded about this, and we are determined to try to find a resolution that is satisfactory to all sides.
Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)
2. What recent assessment he has made of the likely effect of proposed changes to public expenditure in Northern Ireland on policing the threat to security from dissident groups.
Gregg McClymont (Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East) (Lab)
3. what discussions he has had with the Northern Ireland Executive on the likely effect of proposed changes to public expenditure in Northern Ireland on policing the threat to security from dissident groups.
The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr Owen Paterson)
I meet the Justice Minister regularly to discuss the policing of the terrorist threat and related expenditure. I welcome the publication this morning of the Northern Ireland Executive’s draft budget, with its significant allocation to the Department of Justice. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that this Government will ensure that adequate resources are available to meet the threat.
Bill Esterson
Does the Secretary of State understand the very real public concern, not just in Northern Ireland but elsewhere in the United Kingdom, about any cuts in front-line policing in Northern Ireland and the impact that they would have on security and public safety?
Mr Paterson
I am fully aware of the concern that the small number of terrorists presents. That is why the Government have made a fair settlement on the Executive, and I am very pleased today that they have agreed a draft budget with a substantial allocation to the Police Service of Northern Ireland. We have made it absolutely clear that, should the security position deteriorate, we will be open to further discussions with the Executive, as was agreed by the previous Government.
Gregg McClymont
The Minister will be aware that the issue of fleet renewal is causing considerable concern. Will he support any request for additional funds from the PSNI to meet the case for fleet renewal?
Mr Paterson
I think that I alluded to that a second ago. We are quite clear that, should the security position deteriorate, and should a good case be made by the Justice Minister and the Chief Constable—one of whom I talked to this morning; I spoke to the other yesterday—we will be prepared to consider going to the contingency reserve for extra funds in order to bear down on the terrorist threat.
Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)
Can the Secretary of State confirm that, if the situation were, regrettably, to get worse in Northern Ireland, either immediately or over the course of the next few years, those extra resources would come from the UK Government, rather than from the money already allocated to Northern Ireland?
Mr Paterson
We are absolutely clear about that. It was part of the settlement made by the previous Government that, should there be a deterioration in the security position in Northern Ireland, the Government of the United Kingdom would be prepared to accept a bid, on security grounds, for resources from the contingency reserve. I repeat that emphatically today. I said that to the Justice Minister when I spoke to him this morning.
Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)
In view of the recent revelations on the WikiLeaks website—which were confirmed by the former Irish Prime Minister, Bertie Ahern—that Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams had prior knowledge of the Northern bank robbery in 2003, can the Secretary of State confirm that co-operation will take place between the Garda and the PSNI, that a full investigation will take place, that no stone will be left unturned, and that the Historical Enquiries Team will be allowed to pursue this matter in the way that it is pursuing other cases in Northern Ireland?
Mr Paterson
I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his question. I think that the answer was well put by the party leader at the British-Irish Council in the Isle of Man earlier this week. We are quite clear that those who have a past can explain for themselves. For the present, however, we are content for those who adhere to the Mitchell principles and pursue their legitimate political aims by peaceful democratic means to play a part in the process. The other issues that the right hon. Gentleman raised are matters of law and order; they are matters not for elected Members but for the police and the prosecuting authorities.
Mr Dodds
I am grateful for that answer, as far as it goes. Of course, no one in the Chamber today was at the BIC meeting in the Isle of Man, so I would be grateful if the Secretary of State could elaborate on that point. Will he also make it clear that any resources that the Historical Enquiries Team needs to pursue these particular allegations will be forthcoming, and that the community in Northern Ireland can be assured of an equality of pursuit of allegations in Northern Ireland against dissident republicans and mainstream republicans if they were involved in terrorist activities, such as have been alleged not just by WikiLeaks but by the former Irish Prime Minister?
Mr Paterson
We are strong supporters of the work of the Historical Enquiries Team, who are looking at every one of the 3,268 deaths over the course of the troubles, and we are satisfied that they are absolutely colour-blind in approaching every one of these dreadful incidents. They have also been accredited with neutrality by European institutions, and we are happy that they should pursue their work, which is in the hands of the devolved Administration and financed locally. The Prime Minister and I have been on the record on many occasions, supporting the neutral work of the HET, because we know it does bring significant satisfaction to the families who have so far received reports.
David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP)
The Secretary of State will be aware that it has been announced that individuals from my constituency will stand trial next year for the murder of the soldiers in Antrim. Does the Secretary of State agree with me that the full rigour of the law needs to be applied and that the sentencing needs to fit the crime?
Mr Paterson
I think that is a sub judice issue. We support the rule of law and it should be pursued by the legitimate people in authority in the legal sphere and the judicial sphere. It is not for us as elected politicians to interfere.
Stephen Pound (Ealing North) (Lab)
I am grateful to the real Secretary of State for the comments he made earlier, but members of the PSNI tell me that two of their principal anxieties are the dissident threat and, obviously, financial uncertainty. On 10 November, the Secretary of State said that should the situation become worse, the PSNI would
“have the right to approach the Government”—[Official Report, 10 November 2010; Vol. 518, c. 276.]
—something which I think we all have. Today, he has gone a little bit further. Will he today stand four-square with the PSNI and say that, should the situation become more grave—which we hope it will not—he will support the PSNI in an application to the contingency reserve?
Mr Paterson
I welcome the hon. Gentleman to his new role. I will say emphatically, for the third time during this Question Time—and I said it to the Chief Constable yesterday and to the Justice Minister this morning—that should the security position in Northern Ireland deteriorate, we will adhere to the arrangements, which we have conceded were fixed by the previous Government, that given a deteriorating security position, the Justice Minister and the Chief Constable can come to the UK Government with a security case for funds from the contingency reserve.
Mr Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP)
4. What discussions he has had with the Irish Government on arrangements for the proposed visit by Her Majesty the Queen to the Irish Republic.
The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr Hugo Swire)
Responsibility for any visit by Her Majesty the Queen lies with my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary, in consultation with Buckingham Palace. I know that the Taoiseach, Brian Cowen, and the President, Mary McAleese, have expressed their support for a visit by Her Majesty and I very much hope that such a visit will be possible.
Mr Donaldson
In light of the debate that will take place in this House this afternoon and the valuable assistance that we are providing to the Republic of Ireland in its time of need, is it not past time that we had a visit by the sovereign to the Republic of Ireland? After all, the President of the Republic of Ireland has visited the United Kingdom on many occasions and I think it is time now for a degree of maturity and for this issue to be addressed.
Mr Swire
I completely agree with the right hon. Gentleman. There has been no formal invitation yet, but he is absolutely right to draw attention to the matter. The UK and Ireland have an entwined relationship: 870,000 Irish-born people live here in the UK and over 90,000 UK citizens live in Ireland, and I hope they will join us in hoping that this visit can go ahead.
Mel Stride (Central Devon) (Con)
Does my hon. Friend have any concerns about security issues in respect of the Queen’s proposed visit to the Irish Republic?
Mr Swire
I do not think it would be very responsible of me to comment on that, save to say that we work extremely closely with the Garda, they work extremely closely with the PSNI and I have complete faith that they would be able to see that a visit of that sort went off without any trouble whatsoever.
Mr Stephen Hepburn (Jarrow) (Lab)
5. What recent discussions he has had with the Northern Ireland Executive on future provision of prisons in Northern Ireland.
The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr Hugo Swire)
The provision of prisons is now entirely a matter for the devolved Administration. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State’s statement to the House of 4 November outlined the discussions he has had with Justice Minister David Ford on the recommendations in the Billy Wright inquiry report.
Mr Hepburn
Will the Government’s spending decisions have any impact on potential new capital projects such as Magilligan prison and the new police training college?
Mr Swire
The hon. Gentleman raises a good point. As we have said before in the House, we are committed to standing by the terms of the policing and justice financial settlement, which will enable the Executive to come to their own view about new capital expenditure, including on Magilligan prison, and we are closer to that with the announcement of the draft budget today, in respect of which we are very grateful to all the parties.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
In the last couple of days the Prison Service has received some adverse publicity from certain sections of the Northern Ireland media. The Prison Officers Association has stated that it accepts that some degree of change is needed. What discussions has the Minister had with the POA to bring the service forward and to get a balance, which is clearly what we need?
Mr Swire
I have, of course, followed those comments and seen the various interviews with the Justice Minister, David Ford. These are devolved matters: prisons are the responsibility of the Department of Justice. We follow these matters closely, but they are best left to those properly in charge of them.
Mark Reckless (Rochester and Strood) (Con)
6. What assessment his Department has made of assets held by the Republic of Ireland’s National Asset Management Agency in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement.
The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr Hugo Swire)
We are not in a position to make a detailed assessment of these assets. The Northern Ireland Executive are in touch with the authorities in Dublin and NAMA’s Northern Ireland Advisory Committee, and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State raised Northern Ireland interests in relation to NAMA with the Taoiseach on Monday.
Mark Reckless
Given the difficulty NAMA is having in managing these assets and the Republic’s already over-indebted situation, would it not make sense for us to take some of those assets off its hands, as consideration for financial support we may give?
Mr Swire
My hon. Friend will have an opportunity to make those and other points in the debate on the Loans to Ireland Bill—no doubt he will wish to take part in that. I think he should be proud of what we are doing, however. We are now part of the solution rather than the problem, and we believe it is right that we, as a country that has so much trade with the Republic of Ireland, should come to its support at this time, with no conditions.
Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)
The Minister has indicated that the Northern Ireland Office is not in a position to make an assessment. Does he believe that the Treasury is in a position to make an assessment, and has it done so?
Mr Swire
That is a good question. My hon. Friend the Financial Secretary to the Treasury has said that discussions continue with the Government in Dublin about NAMA and the way forward, so they are clearly in regular discussions. Again, no doubt my hon. Friend will inform the House about that in the debate this afternoon, and discuss it with those who wish to take part in that debate.
Dr Alasdair McDonnell (Belfast South) (SDLP)
7. What discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for Transport and the Northern Ireland Executive on the development of an air transport strategy for Northern Ireland.
The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr Hugo Swire)
The Government fully recognise the importance to Northern Ireland of a suitable framework for air travel, particularly for the economy and export trade. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and I will continue to engage with colleagues in Government and the Northern Ireland Executive as the new aviation policy framework is developed in the new year.
Dr McDonnell
I thank the Minister for his answer, and endorse the point he makes about an air transport strategy and framework being essential to our economic recovery, particularly in respect of tourism. [Interruption.] Can he assure me, however, that he will do all in his power to work with those responsible—both the Secretary of State for Transport and the Department for Regional Development in Northern Ireland—to ensure that we get a functioning strategy that provides air links to Europe, Canada and the United States? [Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. I wish to hear the Minister’s reply, and I am sure the House wants to hear it as well.
Mr Swire
I am most grateful to you, Mr Speaker.
The hon. Gentleman is right, and I know he represents his constituents well in these matters. A balance has to be struck between extending the amount of flights that are available and the environmental consequences of doing that. I should declare that I have had meetings with Flybe, which operates out of Belfast City, and is based in my constituency. It does an excellent job, and I know it is always looking for new routes. The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right: in order to grow tourism and exports, which we have to do to rebalance Northern Ireland’s economy, we have to make sure that we have transport links that are as good as any other part of the United Kingdom.
Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con)
8. What recent discussions he has had on the threat to security in Northern Ireland from residual terrorist groups.
The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr Owen Paterson)
I meet regularly with my security advisers and David Ford to discuss the terrorist threat in Northern Ireland. The threat level in Northern Ireland stands at severe, meaning an attack is highly likely. So far this year there have been 206 arrests, both in Northern Ireland and the Republic, for acts of terrorism and serious criminal incidents related to terrorism.
Robert Halfon
I thank my right hon. Friend for his reply. How is he working with the Republic of Ireland to facilitate the cross-border strategy for dealing with dissident violence?
Mr Paterson
I am very grateful for that question. Co-operation with the Republic of Ireland on this issue is at an unprecedented level. I pay tribute to the outgoing commissioner, Fachtna Murphy, who has done a tremendous job, and I am delighted that Martin Callinan has been appointed as his successor. [Interruption.] A symbol of that was the cross-border strategy announced this week, showing the unprecedented collaboration between the PSNI and the Garda. [Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. There are far too many noisy private conversations taking place in the Chamber. I call the Rev. William McCrea.
Dr William McCrea (South Antrim) (DUP)
Thank you, Mr Speaker. In the discussions held concerning the serious threat from republican dissidents, has the issue of police manpower been raised? Has due consideration been given to the representation made by the Police Federation concerning police numbers, especially the police reserve, and in light of the relevant extra financial resources that would be necessary?
Mr Paterson
I am delighted to see the hon. Gentleman back in his place following his illness, as always asking pertinent questions. He will know that police levels in Northern Ireland are the highest in the United Kingdom at 4.2 per 1,000. The numbers of police are for the Chief Constable to decide—it is an operational matter—but as I have said on several occasions already in this Session, we will stand by Northern Ireland and if the Chief Constable and the Justice Minister make a good security case, we will consider access to the contingency fund.
Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)
9. What recent assessment he has made of the effects on the Northern Ireland economy of recent financial developments in the Republic of Ireland.
The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr Hugo Swire)
We are concerned about the risk that the current economic difficulties in the Republic of Ireland might have on Northern Ireland. We will continue to work closely with the Northern Ireland Executive on these issues. The Financial Secretary and the Secretary of State met the First Minister and Deputy First Minister on 24 November to discuss these matters.
Mr Hollobone
What steps can my hon. Friend the Minister take to do his best to protect the Northern Ireland economy from the worst effects of the financial crisis in the south?
Mr Swire
As I said before, we should be proud of being part of the solution, rather than the problem, and it is right to stress the interdependence of the two economies. Ireland accounts for 5% of the UK’s total exports. We export more to Ireland than to Brazil, Russia, India and China together, and it is incredibly important—40% of Northern Ireland’s exports go there as well. So a healthy economy in Dublin is important to a healthy economy in Belfast.
Steve Rotheram (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab)
10. What recent discussions he has had with the Northern Ireland Executive on the provision of resources to the Police Service of Northern Ireland to address security threats from dissident activity.
The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr Owen Paterson)
PSNI resources are primarily a matter for the devolved Administration. I am delighted that the Executive have agreed a draft budget. This Government will work to support the PSNI where exceptional security pressures exist.
Steve Rotheram
Can the Secretary of State tell the House whether he has given the Chief Constable of the PSNI a specific assurance that he will continue to have access to additional funds from the reserve, so that vital community-based policing does not suffer from a lack of resource?
Mr Paterson
I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his question. Of course, in Northern Ireland, community policing is an absolutely vital part of moving the process forward. The Chief Constable has been allocated significant resources in the draft budget today, and it is up to him how to apportion those significant sums of money.
Jack Lopresti (Filton and Bradley Stoke) (Con)
11. What plans he has to make Northern Ireland an enterprise zone.
The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr Owen Paterson)
My hon. Friend the Exchequer Secretary is writing to the Northern Ireland Executive this week with a draft consultation paper on rebalancing the Northern Ireland economy. He and I will be meeting Executive Ministers in the new year to discuss the paper before publishing it for consultation.
Jack Lopresti
Does my right hon. Friend agree that Northern Ireland’s high dependence on the public sector is simply untenable, and that it is more important than ever that private sector innovation be promoted in the Province, in order to rebalance the Northern Ireland economy?
Mr Paterson
My hon. Friend is absolutely right on this, and I am very pleased to see his continued interest in Northern Ireland matters. We have been saying for three years now that an economy that depends for 77.6% of its GDP on state spending is wholly unsustainable. It will need rebalancing. That will take time. To do nothing is irresponsible; to move too fast is irresponsible, and I estimate that it will take, probably, 25 years. This week, we will be sending a paper to the Executive for discussion, looking at ways of turning the whole of Northern Ireland into an enterprise zone.
Heidi Alexander (Lewisham East) (Lab)
Q1. If he will list his official engagements for Wednesday 15 December.
The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron)
This morning, I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others, and, in addition to my duties in this House, I shall have further such meetings later today.
Heidi Alexander
Time and time again, the Prime Minister has said that he wants to protect the poorest and most vulnerable while reducing the budget deficit, so can he explain to me and to residents of my Lewisham East constituency why he is heaping huge cuts on local councils, which tend to spend half their overall budget on child protection, care for the elderly and services for the disabled?
The Prime Minister
Let me tell the hon. Lady what we are doing in Lewisham to protect the most vulnerable. The per pupil funding in our schools in Lewisham will be maintained at £6,951 per pupil—that is the 10th highest in the country, recognising the level of deprivation. On top of that, for the first time in our history we will be adding a pupil premium of £430 per child. That is an excellent policy.
Mark Reckless (Rochester and Strood) (Con)
Q2. The BBC reports that the German Finance Minister wants to set an interest rate to punish Ireland. Will the Prime Minister confirm that this country wants to help Ireland?
The Prime Minister
My right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer will be setting out the details of the loan on Second Reading of the Bill today, but I think that it is worth standing back and asking ourselves, “Why is it that we are able to make a loan to Ireland? Why is it that people are asking us to do that?” It is because Britain’s economy is out of the danger zone and recovering. If we had listened to the Labour party, we would still be in a hole.
Edward Miliband (Doncaster North) (Lab)
May I start by paying tribute to our troops serving in Afghanistan? We owe them a huge debt of gratitude for everything that they are doing for us, and our thoughts will be with them and with their families, who will be apart from them at this time of year.
Does the Prime Minister recognise the concern that there will be about the rise in unemployment of 35,000 that we saw this morning? Does he understand that for all those families around the country, his confidence and indeed his restatement today that Britain “is out of the danger zone” will seem very hollow?
The Prime Minister
First, let me join the right hon. Gentleman in paying tribute to our forces in Afghanistan, whom I visited last week, and to all their families, who will be missing them at Christmas time. To be fair, under the Government of whom he was a part and under this Government we are making big improvements on their contact home—on fax time, telephone time and all the contact that they need—and that is absolutely right.
On the unemployment figures, of course everyone should be concerned—and I am concerned—by a rise in unemployment. When anyone loses a job it is a tragedy for that person, and we must do everything we can to help people into work. With the Work programme we will be launching the biggest back-to-work programme in this country for 70 years. To be accurate, although part of the figures are disappointing, they are mixed because we see that the claimant count has come down in the unemployment figures and we are also seeing an increase in the number of vacancies in our economy—every day there are another 10,000 vacancies. So, yes, we have to get the private sector going and increase the number of jobs available. Over the past six months, we have seen 300,000 new private sector jobs. We need more of them, and keeping our economy out of the danger zone is the way to get them.
Edward Miliband
The Prime Minister slightly sounds as though he paints himself as an innocent bystander in relation to the unemployment figures. He should not be pressing ahead with a rise in VAT on 4 January and £20 billion of public spending cuts.
I want to turn to another aspect of the Prime Minister’s financial plans. Can he confirm that the Government are now set to break the promise made in the coalition agreement:
“We will guarantee that health spending increases in real terms in each year of the Parliament”?
The Prime Minister
Being a bystander would mean having no plans to deal with our economic problems. This Government are cutting corporation tax, abolishing Labour’s jobs tax, reducing national insurance and increasing our jobs programme. No one should be complacent; complacency is having no answers. No one should be complacent, but we do see retail sales up, exports up, manufacturing up, interest rates coming down since the election and growth higher than expected. I am not in the slightest bit complacent about what we need to do, but let us not talk down the performance of our economy.
Turning to the NHS, we have increased the NHS budget by £10 billion in this Parliament. I must say to the right hon. Gentleman that only one party stood at the election on saving the NHS and its spending and that was this party right here. I am confident that we will fulfil our goal of real-terms increases every year in the NHS.
Edward Miliband
It is very interesting that the right hon. Gentleman says that he is confident. He should listen to what the Conservative-led Health Committee said only on Monday. It said that with inflation now higher,
“the Government’s commitment to a real terms increase in health funding…will not be met.”
We all remember those posters during the election and we all remember his face, airbrushed, on those posters. Will he now admit that he is breaking that promise?
The Prime Minister
We are not breaking that promise. We want to see NHS spending increase by more than inflation every year. Let me be clear about who supports this policy. The shadow Chancellor—this is not vague, but pretty clear—said, when asked whether it is right to protect NHS spending:
“There is no logic, sense or rationality to it at all.”
Let us be clear: on this side of the House, we want real-terms increases in health spending to ensure that we improve the health of our nation; the Opposition are committed to cutting the NHS.
Edward Miliband
I know that the right hon. Gentleman is good at the broad brush, that he is good at the airbrush and that he does not do detail, but he should read the report, which says that health service spending will be cut next year in real terms.
Let me turn to his next broken promise on the NHS. He pledged, and the coalition agreement says:
“We will stop the top-down reorganisations of the NHS that have got in the way of patient care”,
but that is exactly what the Government are forcing on the health service. Fewer than one in four doctors think that it will improve patient services and independent experts say that it will cost £3 billion. After six months, is not an old truth being confirmed? When it comes to the NHS, you cannot trust the Tories.
The Prime Minister
There are moments when I think I am up against Basil Brush. When it comes to protecting the NHS, only one side of this House is committed to protecting NHS spending and that is this side.
Now we come on to reforming the NHS. We are not reorganising the bureaucracy of the NHS; we are cutting and abolishing it. Because we are making a 45% saving in the bureaucracy of the NHS, that will save £1.9 billion. Because we are increasing the spending on the NHS, that money will go into hospitals, beds, nurses and doctors. All those things would be cut if it was up to the Opposition because they do not have a commitment to maintaining NHS spending.
Edward Miliband
The Prime Minister is breaking his promise and he does not want to admit it. What does he want to do? He wants to leave it to the back end of the pantomime horse, the Deputy Prime Minister, to break the promises. It is time that the front end of the pantomime horse took some responsibility.
I want to ask the Prime Minister about another broken promise, on the education maintenance allowance. Why does he not go a couple of miles away from here—I know that he does not talk to students, or only to those in China—to Southwark college and talk to the students and teachers there? The business teacher there wrote to me and said—[Interruption.] I would have thought that Government Members would want to listen to the fate of students and young people up and down this country. The teacher said:
“I see the benefits that the EMA provides for many of my learners. I see how they struggle to pay for transport…books and other essentials. How can we expect them to aspire to a better life if we deny them the means?”
The Prime Minister
The right hon. Gentleman wants to talk pantomime. I am afraid it will not be long before he is thinking, “Look behind you!”
The problem with the education maintenance allowance is that research shows that 90% of those who receive it would stay on at school anyway. As we are raising the school participation age to 18, it is right that we replace the education maintenance allowance with something that is better targeted. The right hon. Gentleman has to look at the bigger picture, which is that we inherited a completely wrecked set of public finances. His questions are always about this cut or that cut; we know which cuts he is against, but he has not made one single suggestion about how to dig the country out of the pit of debt that he left us in.
Edward Miliband
The truth is that the right hon. Gentleman began the year making promises and now he is breaking them. The promise on NHS spending—broken; the promise on the education maintenance allowance—broken; the promise on universal child benefit—broken; the promise on knife crime—broken; and the promise on new politics—broken. Should not his new year’s resolution for 2011 be to keep the promises he made in 2010?
The Prime Minister
It can be put quite simply: Labour started the year with a leader who was dithering and had no answers on the economy and it has ended the year with a leader who is dithering and has no answers on the economy. I suppose, in Labour terms, that is what passes for progress.
Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con)
Q3. The Bletchley Park Trust in my constituency hopes to buy for the nation the personal papers of Alan Turing, the heroic wartime code breaker. It is confident of raising the funds to buy the papers, but there is a danger that the auction might take place before it has the chance to do so. Will my right hon. Friend do all he can to give Bletchley Park a fair chance to secure those important documents for the nation?
The Prime Minister
I would certainly like to do that, because I think my hon. Friend is entirely right—Alan Turing was a remarkable man. Many of the people who worked on cracking the enigma code at Bletchley Park during the war are still alive and we owe them a huge debt of gratitude. They made a decisive difference in winning the second world war and we should praise all of them. Of course I hope that private donors will generously support the fundraising campaign and I am very happy to work with my hon. Friend and do anything I can to make that happen.
Joan Ruddock (Lewisham, Deptford) (Lab)
Earlier, the Prime Minister expressed concern about unemployment. Unemployment in his constituency is 1.5% whereas in my constituency it is 7.3%. A full Jobcentre Plus service is available in Witney, but he has decided to close down the Deptford jobcentre. That cannot meet any test of fairness, so will he personally review that disastrous decision?
The Prime Minister
I will very happily look at the distribution of jobcentres, but the fact is that, through local government and other spending, we put a lot more money into deprived areas in our country. [Interruption.] Yes, we do. I had a little check before coming to Question Time and if we look at what is happening to grant changes—for instance, comparing my constituency with that of the right hon. Member for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband)—the cut in grant in my constituency is 27% greater than in his. I simply do not accept that the Government are not being fair and helping those who need help the most.
Nadhim Zahawi (Stratford-on-Avon) (Con)
Q4. All of us in the Chamber will have had tragic cases of late diagnoses of cervical and breast cancer in our constituencies—cancers that should and can be survived. The Prime Minister promised to do more when he was in opposition. Now that we are in government, what is he doing about the unacceptably low survival rates?
The Prime Minister
My hon. Friend is absolutely right to raise this issue. The first thing we did was to make good on our promise of a cancer drugs fund. We put money into that fund so that thousands of people who were without the drugs they needed can now get them. We want to see further improvements on cancer screening and much more focus on cancer outcomes, and unlike the Labour party we are prepared to put the money in to make sure it happens.
John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)
According to the latest statistics, children of asylum seekers have been placed in detention centres on 665 occasions in the past year, which means that it is highly likely that there will be children in our detention centres this Christmas. This is not a party-political point. May I ask the Prime Minister, on behalf of the whole House, to give a commitment that by next Christmas, in 2012, there will be no children of asylum seekers in detention centres, and that there never will be again?
The Prime Minister
The hon. Gentleman has made an important point. In our coalition agreement we made a commitment to address the issue, and the Deputy Prime Minister will make a statement tomorrow about how we will end this scandal.
Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)
Q5. As naval aviation celebrates its centenary, will my right hon. Friend guarantee that the promised transfer of 20 Merlin helicopters from the RAF to the Fleet Air Arm will indeed take place? Otherwise critical mass may well be lost, and the first 100 years of a service that has defended us in peace and war may be the last 100 years.
The Prime Minister
My hon. Friend is absolutely right to raise that point. Of course I will look into the issue of the Merlin transfer. However, we should be clear about the fact that Britain will still have the fourth largest defence budget anywhere in the world. The Navy will have seven Astute class submarines, 19 destroyers and frigates, 14 minesweepers and other vessels, the Royal Marines—obviously—and our nuclear deterrent. We will have a large and fit-for-purpose Navy of which the country can rightly be proud.
Mr David Lammy (Tottenham) (Lab)
The Prime Minister will be aware that there are two great football clubs in north London, Tottenham Hotspur and Enfield Town. He will also be aware that Spurs are considering moving across London to the east end—to the Olympic park. Will he join me, and the Spurs fans who signed a petition entitled “Say NO to ‘Stratford Hotspur’”, in urging the Spurs chairman to put the club and its history before shareholder value?
The Prime Minister
My recent experience has taught me to stay out of international football management. While paying tribute to the right hon. Gentleman’s club, to Enfield Town and, of course, to Arsenal as well—I think it right to do that—I will let the club make the decision. However, it is true to say that on the Olympic site there will be a fantastic stadium of which I hope one football club will take advantage.
Malcolm Bruce (Gordon) (LD)
Q6. Will the Prime Minister join me in thanking and expressing appreciation to the postal service workers across the United Kingdom—including those whom I visited in Inverurie, Dyce and Ellen—who are struggling through snow and ice to make their deliveries? Does he agree that the mail order firms that are cancelling Christmas in Scotland by refusing to accept orders should recognise that they cannot and do not match the universal postal service, and that for that reason it should be secured and protected?
The Prime Minister
The right hon. Gentleman has made an extremely good point. I am sure that all Members in all parts of the House—many of whom will take the opportunity to visit sorting offices this Christmas—will want to record our support and thanks for the very good work that postal workers do throughout the country in ensuring that everything is delivered in time for Christmas. I know that they are having a particularly difficult time in Scotland. Additional air and rail services have been laid on to speed the movement of mail in and out of Scotland, and Royal Mail itself has made a big investment—of £20 million—to try to deal with the most severe weather that it has faced for 30 years.
Again, let us all pay tribute to those who will ensure that cards and presents are delivered on time.
Mr David Hamilton (Midlothian) (Lab)
Q7. The right hon. Member for Gordon (Malcolm Bruce) is right. The situation has been horrendous in Scotland, and indeed in the north of England. The only people who are delivering are those in Royal Mail, as the private companies have offloaded their commitments on to it. The £20 million invested by Royal Mail is important. Will the Prime Minister give a straight answer to this question? Will he guarantee that universal service, and will he and his friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who is sitting next to him, review Royal Mail’s privatisation and step back from it?
The Prime Minister
The whole point of trying to get private capital and management involved in Royal Mail is to make the service better, and to ensure that it can go on doing all the things that we want it to do. Opposition Members—including the Leader of the Opposition—shake their heads, but the fact is that they were going to present plans in the last Parliament, because even they realised that this needs to be done.
Mary Macleod (Brentford and Isleworth) (Con)
Will the Prime Minister join me in paying tribute to the service of the Gurkhas and, especially, to my Chiswick constituent, Havildar Lachhiman Gurung, who died on 12 December aged 92? He won the Victoria cross while serving with the Gurkha Rifles in Burma in 1945, where he demonstrated
“outstanding gallantry and extreme devotion to duty, in the face of almost overwhelming odds”.
The Prime Minister
I certainly join my hon. Friend in paying tribute to the Gurkhas both past and present. Anyone who goes to Afghanistan and sees how many Gurkhas there are not just in the Gurkha Rifles but in some of the logistic regiments, serving our country extremely well, will know that we owe them the greatest debt of gratitude, and we must always make sure that it is paid in full.
Mr Ronnie Campbell (Blyth Valley) (Lab)
Q8. This has been a momentous week, with the trebling of tuition fees for students and the average decrease of 10% in grants for local councils. We have also been told this week that the Chancellor has to build up a war chest of £50 billion just in time for the general election—paid for by working people and their families. [Interruption.] That is right; that is the question.
The Prime Minister
I am not quite sure what the question is. Let me just answer the point about fees by putting this point on the record. The Institute for Fiscal Studies has looked carefully at our plans, and it finds:
“By decile of graduate lifetime earnings, the Government’s proposals are more progressive than the current system or that proposed by Lord Browne. The highest earning graduates would pay more on average than both the current system and that proposed by Lord Browne, while lower earning graduates would pay back less.”
I say to the Opposition, including the hon. Gentleman, if they want a progressive system for tuition fee reform, that is what we offer. In terms of dealing with the deficit, it is absolutely vital that we get on top of it. That is good for everyone in this country, his constituents included.
Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)
Q9. Will the Prime Minister ensure that primary care trusts, strategic health authorities and all NHS bureaucracies serve patients, not their own interests? Will he further ensure that the Secretary of State for Health intervenes to stamp out any excessive failures caused by that unnecessary bureaucracy?
The Prime Minister
I agree with my hon. Friend, but the key is to try to get rid of so much of that bureaucracy. Under the previous Government, the number of managers went up faster than the number of nurses, and our aim is to reduce that bureaucracy, get rid of that bureaucracy and put power in the hands of GPs and their patients, so that the decisions taken in our constituencies about hospitals and services are driven by the choices our constituents make, rather than by bureaucrats. That is the key to those reforms and why I hope everyone in the House will support them.
Chris Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab)
Q10. Is there any truth in the rumour that tomorrow the Liberal Democrats will move the writ for the Oldham East and Saddleworth by-election for 13 January, thus denying the good people of Oldham a politician-free Christmas and new year? Is that unseemly haste over the festive season a cynical attempt by the Government to avoid the wrath of the public and especially students on tuition fees, school cuts and police cuts?
The Prime Minister
Do I gather that the Opposition are frightened of having an election? I would put the question the other way: why should the people of that constituency put up with not having a Member of Parliament, and what have you lot got to be frightened of?
Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con)
Will the Prime Minister outline to the House the steps that the Government are taking to cut through the legacy of red tape and bureaucracy that we inherited from the previous Government in order to deliver real value-for-money front-line services?
The Prime Minister
There is no doubt that regulation has got out of control in this country. That is why my right hon. Friend the Business Secretary is introducing a new one-in, one-out rule—so that any time the Government want to legislate or regulate they have to remove a regulation first. That sort of discipline can make a real difference.
Dr Alasdair McDonnell (Belfast South) (SDLP)
Q11. May I put on the record my appreciation, and the appreciation of many, of the goodwill and practical neighbourly support that the Prime Minister and Chancellor have shown to Ireland at this difficult time? It makes very good sense, because the Irish economy, the Northern Ireland economy and the British economy are closely intertwined. But the economic indications are that Northern Ireland is still in decline and the economy is in serious need of a boost. May I ask the Prime Minister for his assessment of the possibility of a boost to the Northern Ireland economy by reducing corporation tax to 12.5%?
The Prime Minister
The hon. Gentleman makes a good point about the economy in Northern Ireland. We want to see it recover and grow, but everyone in Northern Ireland knows that the size of the state—the size of government—in Northern Ireland has become too big, and we have to see a private sector recovery. We are looking at all sorts of ideas, including the enterprise zone to which my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland referred. I should also like to put on record my thanks to those Northern Irish Members who are going to support what we are doing to help the Republic of Ireland in its time of need.
Sajid Javid (Bromsgrove) (Con)
Q12. The people of Bromsgrove are immensely proud of our brave servicemen and women. That is why Bromsgrove district council has decided to give the freedom of the district to the Mercian Regiment next month. Will the Prime Minister join me in congratulating the decision of the council, and does he believe that we can all do more to honour our heroes?
The Prime Minister
I certainly join my hon. Friend in doing that. Bromsgrove is absolutely right to honour the Mercian Regiment in that way. He brings out an important point. Yes, we have responsibility, as a Government and as a House of Commons, to deliver on the military covenant for our personnel in the armed services, but there is a broader responsibility on businesses, on the media, on us as individuals and on the whole country to work out what more we can do to recognise the bravery of these people who do so much on our behalf.
Hugh Bayley (York Central) (Lab)
Q13. There are 1,238 students at York college who come from families poor enough to qualify for a full education maintenance allowance. That is one in three at the college. The chair of governors describes the Government’s plans for EMAs as “totally unacceptable” and the replacement funding as “woefully inadequate.” I know that the Prime Minister visits North Yorkshire from time to time, will he show that he cares about social mobility and that he really is a one-nation Tory by meeting people from the college to discuss—
The Prime Minister
I absolutely accept that we have got to do more to help people to get from the very bottom to the very top. That is why we have saved the per pupil funding and why we are increasing the pupil premium. When we look at what happened over the last few years, since 2004, child poverty rose by 100,000, inequality reached the highest level since 1961, and 5 million people were stuck on out-of-work benefits. That is why we need to change the way that we help people to get on in life, and that is exactly what we are committed to doing.
Mike Freer (Finchley and Golders Green) (Con)
Q14. As we approach Holocaust memorial day, will the Prime Minister confirm that the Government will generously donate to the Auschwitz-Birkenau restoration fund?
The Prime Minister
I can do that. Auschwitz-Birkenau is a very powerful reminder of the ultimate consequences of intolerance, and it is only right that it should be preserved to bear witness to the deaths of the millions of victims who perished there and to act as a stark reminder of man’s inhumanity to man. The director of the Auschwitz-Birkenau Foundation has recently visited the UK to discuss funding with a number of Government Departments, and we are also involved in EU discussions. I think everyone in this House knows how important it is to maintain these memorials. We obviously remember the holocaust, but we must also remember that there have been other acts of gross inhumanity more recently. We have to go on remembering to stop that happening again.
Mr Kevin Barron (Rother Valley) (Lab)
Will the Prime Minister tell the House whether, when he appointed the ex-Member for Arundel and South Downs to the other place, he knew his thoughts on state benefits being an incentive to breed? Is that another example of the new politics the Prime Minister promised the country?
The Prime Minister
I do not know how long that one took to think up. The former hon. Member, who is now a Member of the House of Lords, completely withdrew those comments and apologised for what he said, which was completely unacceptable. I am prepared to leave it at that.
Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con)
Q15. Is my right hon. Friend aware of the concern of many people at reports in the press that he plans to support high-speed rail regardless of next year’s consultation? Will he spread a bit of Christmas cheer by reassuring my constituents that he will keep an open mind and that he will not be railroading through a railroad?
The Prime Minister
I completely understand the concern that there is all the way along the proposed line. Obviously, people are worried about it and, yes, this is a proper consultation—it must be a proper consultation and it will be. As I have said before at the Dispatch Box, for 50 years we have been trying to deal with the north-south divide and have a more effective regional policy. I do believe that high-speed rail has a really effective role to play in bringing our country closer together and spreading economic benefit throughout all our country.
Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab)
Students in Wirral tell me that they need their education maintenance allowance for travel to go to the sixth form or college of their choice. Catherine McCormack, the head of South Wirral high school, says:
“Without EMA, choice and diversity are not supported.”
Does the Prime Minister think that a choice of courses is only for those who can afford it?
The Prime Minister
I have to say to the hon. Lady that we looked very carefully at the study that was completed under the Government of the Labour party and it showed that nine out of 10 of those people receiving education maintenance allowance would have stayed on at school anyway. This is why the Labour party landed us in such a mess over the economy. We have to ask the question about value for money and whether we are spending money in the correct way. We are not abolishing EMAs: we are replacing EMAs with something more effective. At a time—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. Members ask the question; they must listen to the Prime Minister’s answer.
The Prime Minister
At a time when we are legislating to raise the participation age to 18, we have to ask whether it is it is right to spend so much money on asking people to do something that by law they will be asked to do anyway.
Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con)
Time and time again, we seem to be exporting extreme Islamist terrorists and suicide bombers to Afghanistan, Israel and now Sweden. What steps is my right hon. Friend taking to drain the poison of extreme Islamism from our country?
The Prime Minister
My hon. Friend raises an incredibly important point. If we are frank on both sides of the House, we have not done enough to deal with the promotion of extremist Islamism in our country. Whether it is making sure that imams coming over to this country can speak English properly, or whether it is making sure that we de-radicalise our universities, we have to take a range of further steps, and I am going to be working hard to make sure that we do. Yes, we have got to have the policing in place; yes, we have got to make sure that we invest in our intelligence services; yes, we have got to co-operate with other countries—but we have also got to ask why it is that so many young men in our country get radicalised in this completely unacceptable way.
Mr Speaker
We come now to the 10-minute rule motion. I call Nadhim Zahawi. [Interruption.] If the hon. Gentleman would just wait for a moment, may I, as always, appeal to right hon. and hon. Members who are leaving the Chamber to do so quickly and quietly so that the same courtesy is extended to the hon. Member for Stratford-on-Avon as they would want to be extended to them? [Interruption.] I hope that Members are on their way out, but large numbers of Members will of course be staying to listen to the hon. Gentleman.