Urgent Questions are proposed each morning by backbench MPs, and up to two may be selected each day by the Speaker. Chosen Urgent Questions are announced 30 minutes before Parliament sits each day.
Each Urgent Question requires a Government Minister to give a response on the debate topic.
This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record
Ms Diane Abbott (Hackney North and Stoke Newington) (Lab)
(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for Health if he will make a statement on the Government’s response to the consultation on standardised packaging of tobacco products.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health (Anna Soubry)
The Government’s policy remains unchanged. The Government have today published a summary report on the consultation on the standardised packaging of tobacco products. The consultation was undertaken last year between April and August with the agreement of the devolved Administrations on a UK-wide basis. The summary report is available in the Library.
The standardised packaging of tobacco refers to measures that may be taken to restrict or end the use of logos, colours, brand images or promotional information on packaging. Any brand or product names would be displayed in a standard colour and typeface. The consultation was intended to explore views on whether standardised tobacco packaging would reduce the appeal of tobacco products to consumers, increase the effectiveness of health warnings on the packaging of tobacco products, reduce the ability of tobacco packaging to mislead consumers about the harmful effects of smoking and have a positive effect on smoking-related attitude, beliefs, intentions and behaviours, particularly among children and young people. To inform responses to the consultation and subsequent policy making, the Department commissioned a systematic review of evidence on standardised packaging. I am grateful to the academics who undertook the review at the university of Stirling, university of Nottingham and the Institute of Education. It is being published alongside the consultation document.
More than 668,000 responses to the consultation were received and the views expressed were highly polarised. Strong views were put forward on both sides of the debate and a range of organisations generated campaigns and petitions. Of those who provided detailed feedback, some 53% were in favour of standardised packaging while 43% thought the Government should do nothing about tobacco packaging. Having carefully considered those differing views, the Government have decided to wait until the emerging impact of the decision in Australia can be measured before we make a final decision.
Only one country, Australia, has adopted the policy, which it introduced on 1 December last year. New Zealand and the Republic of Ireland have announced that they intend to follow suit. We intend to wait, so we can benefit from the experience of countries such as Australia that have introduced standardised packaging. In the meantime, I want to promote wider public debate about whether we should introduce standardised packaging in this country, including in this House as well as in the media.
Ms Abbott
Mr Speaker, you would have to have a heart of stone not to feel sorry for the hon. Lady, who has been forced to be the face of this humiliating policy U-turn. Once again, the Government have tried to slip out an important policy statement by means of a written statement on a Friday, hoping to avoid parliamentary scrutiny. Once again, the Government have completely lost their way on public health and caved into big business. Today, the health of the nation is being sacrificed to the interests of big tobacco.
The Minister has conceded that the Government’s systematic review found that standard packaging would make smoking less attractive to young people. The Minister will have read the letter signed by 160 specialist consultants and professors calling on the Government not to enact this U-turn. The Minister might have heard the former Health Secretary, the right hon. Member for South Cambridgeshire (Mr Lansley), say:
“The evidence is clear that packaging helps to recruit smokers, so it makes sense…having less attractive packaging. It’s wrong that children are being attracted to smoke by glitzy designs on packets…children should be protected from the start.”
The Minister might even remember what she had to say—that she had been “personally persuaded” of the case for standardised plain packaging. The Opposition have to ask what happened. We suspect that Lynton Crosby happened.
Every single medical stakeholder, every campaigner on tobacco harm and every member of the public who is concerned about the fact that half of all lifetime smokers will die prematurely from their habit and that hundreds of children start smoking every day will be appalled at this decision. It bears no relationship to the evidence and people will die. Will the Minister tell the House whose decision it was to slip out the announcement on a sitting day by means of a written statement? Who was involved in making the decision and can she confirm that Lynton Crosby had no involvement whatsoever in today’s decision?
There can be no greater responsibility on Government than the heath of the nation. Every single Health Minister has declared their personal support for standard plain packaging and the Minister should be ashamed to have been dragged to the House today to set out this disgraceful U-turn.
Anna Soubry
May I apologise, Mr Speaker, for the fact that apparently I have been speaking far too quietly for perhaps the first time in my life? The hon. Lady clearly did not hear what I said, and I will repeat it. We have not made a decision. We have decided to wait, quite properly, to see the evidence as it emerges from Australia. I make it very clear that there is no change in the policy of this Government. Forgive me, Mr Speaker, but the Order Paper is quite clear—I see it before me—and states that there will be the publication in the Library today of a written statement on the matter of standardised packaging. I just heard a whole load of nonsense going up in smoke.
Sir Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con)
When I was responsible for reducing drink-driving, I was told that we had to increase the penalties, lower the limit and increase the policing. Drink-driving deaths have come down by three quarters in the past 30 years. The reduction of smoking among men from 82% to about 20% mainly happened before we started throwing the law at everything. People smoke because they take it up as teenagers, and we say they are too young to smoke. We ought to say that only children take it up and to make it as unlikely as people picking their nose in public.
Anna Soubry
I am very grateful for those comments. My hon. Friend is quite right that prevalence is now at about 20%, which is better than in many other countries. There is a very good debate to be had about whether we should take legislative action or change social attitudes. That is why I am so proud of our “Stoptober” campaign and the fact that we have had up to half a million hits on our website. Half a million quitting packs have been given out. It is a subtle combination of many factors. If only there were one silver bullet—but unfortunately there is not.
Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab)
When the Minister publishes the analysis of the Australian experience, will she also publish an evidenced analysis of the number of avoidable deaths and illnesses that have resulted from the delay?
Anna Soubry
Well, I could say that the hon. Lady’s party, when it was in government, had 13 years to introduce such legislation. Indeed, I am more than happy to say that. If it was so simple to introduce standardised packaging, why did Labour not do it? It is not as simple as they now try to make out. Most importantly, I believe, Mr Speaker—and I do speak as a lawyer—you always want good legislation that is evidence-based. That is why I am more than content to support a delay, while we wait to see the evidence as it emerges from Australia.
Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con)
I congratulate the Government on this decision. The Minister will recall that the last time I raised this subject in the House, she told me that I would see the light, and I am delighted that she and the Government are the ones who have seen the light on this issue. She cherry-picked some numbers of people in favour of and against standardised packaging from the consultation. Could she tell us the figures from the full 688,000 responses? How many of those were in favour and how many against?
Anna Soubry
Forgive me; I do not have that information at my fingertips. I am more than happy to supply it to my hon. Friend by way of a letter, or any other mechanism.
The position I have set out is what we now need, and if there is a criticism that I would make, it is that we went to consultation first. All good legislation needs a good, healthy debate, followed by, perhaps, wider consultation. We now need to have that debate, and I am very happy to lead it.
Chris Williamson (Derby North) (Lab)
Does this not represent a shameful capitulation to the merchants of death who want to recruit more children to smoke, who will go to an early grave as a consequence? Can the Minister therefore confirm to the House whether or not Lynton Crosby has had any conversations at all with any Health Minister on this issue?
Anna Soubry
I can assure the hon. Gentleman that Mr Crosby has not had any conversation with any Health Minister on this issue. This really is a complete red herring. I can also inform him that I am very proud of the fact that we have banned cigarette vending machines, which will mean that people under the age of 18 in particular no longer have access to cigarettes by virtue of that site of sale, and I am also pleased that by 2015, we shall be ensuring that the ban on displays of cigarettes, which are currently banned in supermarkets without the provision of shutters, will be extended to smaller shops.
Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD)
One hundred and fifty thousand youngsters are estimated to have taken up smoking since the end of the Government’s consultation, so the time scale is important. Can the Minister reiterate her assurance that this is not being kicked into the long grass, albeit in the outback, as we fear it may well be?
Anna Soubry
As I have explained, there has been no change of policy at all. What we have decided to do, based on the consultation, but most importantly based on what the Australian Government have done, is to look at that evidence as it emerges. I have spoken to the Australian high commissioner—[Hon. Members: “Oh!”] Hon. Members on the one hand claim that this is serious—
Mr Speaker
Order. Let us try to lower the decibel level. Questions should be heard with courtesy, which, to be fair, I think they have been, and the answers must be heard with courtesy.
Anna Soubry
I think this is important. I also spoke with one of the leading experts who have been involved in the legislation in Australia, and I was quite surprised that even after about three or four months, they could not give me a picture of any emerging evidence. That is why we need this time. I believe all good legislation should be based on firm, good strong evidence.
Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con)
I am all for evidence-based policy making, not least from Australia—I declare an interest in being half Australian myself—but the Minister will be aware that my step-sister died of lung cancer at the age of 49, leaving four children. The Minister was kind enough to meet her late husband, whose children have set up the Deborah Hutton campaign to do work, particularly with young people, to prevent them from taking up smoking through innovative use of film and suchlike. What are the Government doing to prevent young people—particularly girls, whose lungs are more severely damaged by smoking—from taking up smoking?
Anna Soubry
I am grateful to my hon. Friend, and it was a great honour to meet members of his family. My own father died, after a lifetime as a heavy smoker, from lung cancer, so we are all well aware of the health risks. My hon. Friend makes the good point about what we are doing specifically to stop children from taking up the habit. I have explained about vending machines. Of course, there is also an EU directive; although it may not find a great deal of favour with some Members on my side of the House, it is a very good directive. Work began on it only a few weeks ago, which will mean, for example, that we will not—[Interruption.] The hon. Member for Streatham (Mr Umunna) is chuntering, Mr Speaker, and it is not always very helpful, as I know.
Mr Speaker
Order. So the hon. Lady knows. Was she perchance speaking as a practitioner?
Anna Soubry
If I were in court, I think I would have to plead guilty to that one, Mr Speaker. In all seriousness—it is a very serious point—one of the things in the EU directive that we specifically looked at was the percentage of the package that should contain health warnings. It is now going up to 65%. There will be no flavourings. Again, this is very important in tobacco products. All this is designed for the next generation.
It is really important to add this: standardised packaging was about making cigarette smoking unattractive to young people. It is the next generation; that is the fundamental aim. That is why it is really important, even for those who use that aim to argue in favour of standardised packaging, that we find out what the evidence is in Australia, which is doing it. That is why my hon. Friend is right to say that good, evidence-based legislation is always the best.
Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)
I am proud that the Labour Government in 2006 gave a free vote on the legislation for smoke-free workplaces. That was an important step forward. Perhaps the Minister should be thinking in those terms now, because today’s decision to take no action will really disappoint the 190 health organisations, including the royal medical colleges and the World Health Organisation, that have supported the move to standardise packaging on tobacco products. Will they not now be drawing the conclusion that the Government, as my hon. Friend the Member for Hackney North and Stoke Newington (Ms Abbott) has said, have given in to vested interests and entirely lost their way on public health?
Anna Soubry
I do not give in to pressure from anybody, and neither does anybody else in my Department or indeed in my Government. We have taken a decision to wait for the emerging evidence from Australia, and that is the right thing to do.
Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset) (Con)
May I welcome the wise statement made by my hon. Friend today, and remind her that it is often the case that parties in opposition are all in favour of freedom, and when they get into government they are suddenly in favour of the nanny state?
Jacob Rees-Mogg
I did indeed; I was very fortunate. [Laughter.] It is a pity some Opposition Members did not, but never mind.
When liberties are removed, it should always be done, as my hon. Friend says, on the basis of evidence, because freedom is very precious, and the state does not have the right to interfere willy-nilly.
Anna Soubry
I agree that the state does not have a right to interfere willy-nilly, but of course standardised packaging does not prevent anybody from buying cigarettes or inhibit their right to smoke cigarettes if that is their choice, so with respect to my hon. Friend, this is not a nanny state argument at all. The packaging would be affected, but people would remain free, as ever, to buy cigarettes and to smoke them.
Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)
I, too, congratulate the Government on their courageous and brave decision to do the right thing, and I would encourage the Minister to keep on changing in this matter. She has protected 1,000 jobs directly in my constituency today as a result of this, and for that I am truly grateful. But may I also say that with clarion certainty today, we now have a statement from the Government that policy in this area will be based on evidence, not emotion. That is incredibly important, in order that we can get to sensible decisions. On that basis, turning to the tobacco directive, will the Minister now agree for her officials to meet me and industry representatives who employ people in my constituency, given that the Minister’s Department has already met with Ms Linda McAvan, the MEP and reporter, on the tobacco directive, because it is only fair that we have proper, full, evidence-based debate on this matter?
Anna Soubry
The hon. Gentleman knows that he and I do not agree on this matter. Of course, we have not made a decision; that is the whole point. We are waiting to see the evidence as it emerges from Australia before we make a decision. I am more than happy to meet him again, as I have done in the past, but I can tell him: I am not going to meet those whose business is to trade and to manufacture tobacco. It is bad; it is horrible stuff. It kills people. It does great damage to people’s health.
Mr Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con)
I draw attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests.
I congratulate my hon. Friend on her indecision. I also draw to her attention the fact that there does not seem to be any evidence that the sale and availability of illegal drugs in plain packages has reduced their attractiveness to young people.
Anna Soubry
I could speak for a very long time about illegal drugs and how we make them less attractive to young people. We know, for sure, that we need a subtle mixture of different measures that persuade young people not to take substances that are harmful to them. I am more than happy to have that conversation with my hon. Friend.
Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab)
Apart from vending machines, what public health initiatives is the Minister going to undertake immediately to stop 570 children a day taking up smoking?
Anna Soubry
We have a number of measures. For example, we have some of the toughest tax and duty measures in relation to tobacco. The “Stoptober” campaign was phenomenally successful last year. We have a TV campaign that is encouraging people not to smoke in cars, for example, as well as our other continuing work. With public health being devolved back to where it always should have been—to local authorities—a number of authorities, notably up in north-east England, have taken grave measures to tackle smoking by educating young people, in particular. This is all good work that will continue through Public Health England.
Penny Mordaunt (Portsmouth North) (Con)
I can see the merits of standardised packaging. Companies have invested heavily in equipment to produce complex packet designs in order to make counterfeiting harder. Does the Minister agree that if standardised packaging is adopted, whatever the future designs are, the packaging should still be sufficiently complex and difficult to forge? These are just the sort of issues that she and her Department must now look at in depth.
Anna Soubry
Absolutely. One of the problems in this debate is that unfortunately it has been called plain packaging. It is far from plain. As, in effect, the Government would be in control of what goes on to the cigarette packet, there is provision to make it as complicated as possible, with a variety of colours, watermarks, holograms and so on. Far from being a counterfeiter’s dream, it would be a counterfeiter’s nightmare.
Ann McKechin (Glasgow North) (Lab)
The Minister said that this is a joint consultation with the devolved authorities. Can she confirm whether Scottish Government Ministers were happy to hit the pause button for an undefined time period?
Anna Soubry
I have been very pleased to have a number of discussions with colleagues north of the border and in Wales. It is a pleasure, as always, to continue to work with them.
Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)
I draw the House’s attention to an interest in the register.
I congratulate the courageous Minister on making this decision. She has led from the front and done completely the right thing in having an evidence-based decision. The shadow Minister’s attack on her was completely unfounded. This Minister would never do something against her principles; if she thought it was wrong, she would resign. Is not this exactly the way Government should be: evidence-based rather than rushing through things?
Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)
It is a first for this Government to determine policy by waiting to see what the Australians do. What time period will there be for the consultation? Has the Minister’s position on this issue, and that of her colleague the Under-Secretary of State for Health, the hon. Member for Central Suffolk and North Ipswich (Dr Poulter), changed?
Anna Soubry
I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with waiting to see what happens with the introduction of the legislation in Australia. The hon. Gentleman knows that the aim of standardised packaging is to dissuade young people from taking it up.
Anna Soubry
I am answering the hon. Gentleman’s first question first, after which I will move on to the next one. That is the aim of the introduction of standardised packaging. If a good experiment is up and running that will produce evidence, what could be a more sensible thing for Government to do? As to the length of time, I cannot answer that question, because we have to wait and see the evidence as it emerges. I thought that we might see some sort of change quite quickly in Australia, but we have not seen it yet; I am surprised about that. I am afraid it is a case of “How long is a piece of string?” We have to wait and see how the evidence emerges.
Richard Burden (Birmingham, Northfield) (Lab)
The Government’s own review found a solid case for standardised packaging, and the Minister says that she is personally persuaded of that case. The Government’s consultation finished not far short of a year ago, and now she says that their position has not changed. Does that mean that their position was always just to wait and see whether anybody else did it before making a decision? If not, what on earth was the point of the consultation and the statements she has made up until today?
Anna Soubry
I appreciate that the hon. Gentleman may have a problem with this, but we have had, and continue to have, an open mind. I have no difficulty with that. We had a consultation that closed in August last year. The Australians passed their legislation and it came into effect in December last year. It is absolutely right and reasonable to see the evidence as it emerges from Australia before making a final decision. That strikes me as responsible, grown-up government.
Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab)
When did the Minister last speak to Lynton Crosby?
Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)
Like other Members, I regret that the Government have flinched on this. However, I welcome the fact that the Minister still clearly refutes the fallacy that standardised graphic packaging with markers would in any way aid smuggling or counterfeiters. Will the pause mode that the Government have now moved into still allow them to work with their Irish counterparts, perhaps moving on a synchronised basis in relation to these measures to make sure that this move happens throughout these islands?
Anna Soubry
I am very grateful for those comments. I know that the Republic’s Minister for Health is a firm advocate of standardised packaging. In fact, I think that if he could he would go even further and make tobacco illegal. I hope that he will not mind me saying that in public, but I believe it is his view. It is an absolute pleasure to work with him. We learn from each other. At the various European Union Health Ministers’ meetings we exchange ideas and experiences. That is why—I keep saying it, but it is absolutely right—we must wait and see the evidence as it emerges from Australia.
Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. How can I correct what I consider to be misleading information? How can it be the case that the Government have not met representatives of the tobacco industry when I have accompanied them to meet the Government every year since I have been a Member of Parliament and the previous Member of Parliament for North Antrim has accompanied them to meet the Government for the past 30 years? Can that be corrected in some way, because I believe that it was misleading the House to assert that there would be no such meeting?
Mr Speaker
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his point of order. My understanding was that the Minister was asked whether she would meet representatives of the tobacco industry and she indicated that she did not intend to do so. I do not think that she was making any wider claim about what had happened with other Ministers or on previous occasions; she was simply signalling that it was not her intention to meet them. If the Minister wants to speak, she is welcome to do so.
Mr Speaker
I think the position is now clear; the Minister has kindly committed to write to the hon. Gentleman.