(10 years, 2 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Ann McKechin (Glasgow North) (Lab)
1. What steps she is taking to engage with local political leaders on reaching agreement to enable the National Crime Agency to operate in Northern Ireland.
Mr Iain McKenzie (Inverclyde) (Lab)
4. What steps she is taking to engage with local political leaders on reaching agreement to enable the National Crime Agency to operate in Northern Ireland.
The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mrs Theresa Villiers)
It is important for the security of people in Northern Ireland that the NCA should be fully operational there. I continue to raise this issue with the Northern Ireland parties, the Justice Minister and the Chief Constable of the Police Service of Northern Ireland.
Ann McKechin
I thank the Secretary of State for her reply, but she will be aware of the concerns about the issue of human trafficking, which is a problem across the United Kingdom, including trafficking from Northern Ireland into Scotland. Can she confirm that despite the fact that the National Crime Agency is not yet operating in Northern Ireland, the PSNI does have the full resources to enable it to tackle this heinous crime?
Mrs Villiers
I fully share the hon. Lady’s sentiments about the horrific nature of the crime of human trafficking. Because it raises immigration questions, the NCA does have power to act in this area within Northern Ireland, so I can give her the assurance that it is providing the PSNI with all the support that is required on those matters. It is on crimes within the devolved sphere that the NCA’s capacity is currently restricted.
Mr McKenzie
At the moment, the NCA cannot carry out police operations in Northern Ireland, and last year the Police Service of Northern Ireland had to draft in officers from around the UK. Will the Secretary of State confirm her intention to see a fully staffed Police Service of Northern Ireland above the minimum number identified by the Chief Constable, before the marching season and before other commemoration parades take place?
Mrs Villiers
The Government have provided significant extra funding for the PSNI—£200 million in the current spending review and £30 million in 2015-16. I continue to support and encourage the discussions between the Department of Finance and Personnel, the Department of Justice and the PSNI on the Executive’s contribution to police funding. It is also important that the NCA provide as much support as it can to the PSNI, within the constraints it is under because of the lack of a legislative consent motion.
Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)
Will the Secretary of State assure the House that she will not entertain any ideas of amnesties for terrorists, unlike the last Labour Government?
Mrs Villiers
This Government do not support amnesties for terrorists, and we oppose the legislation put forward by the previous Government which would have amounted to an effective amnesty.
Mr Robert Buckland (South Swindon) (Con)
On the prevention and detection of crime, does my right hon. Friend share the shock of many of us that the Executive seem to have interfered in the Downey case and others and in the actions of the police and the prosecution? Will she assure me that it will not be the policy of this Government to blur the lines between the Executive and the judicial process in an unacceptable way?
Mr Speaker
Quite an ingenious effort, but I would remind the Secretary of State that the question is about the National Crime Agency.
Mrs Villiers
I can assure my hon. Friend that the Government recognise fully the importance of ensuring that prosecution decisions are made independently of the Executive.
Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)
Clearly, the failure to operate the National Crime Agency as a result of republican blocking of that is a disgrace and it is undermining policing and justice. But equally, the Downey decision has undermined confidence in policing and justice. Will the Secretary of State now publish the numbers of letters that have been sent to these people—the names, the contents of these letters; and would she now rescind this disgraceful and shameful back-door scheme?
Mrs Villiers
I fully understand the right hon. Gentleman’s concerns, and it was clearly a very difficult day for the families yesterday. As I published in my written ministerial statement, we believe that around 200 cases were processed through this scheme. The individuals were sent factual letters indicating whether or not they were wanted for terrorism offences. It was not an amnesty and it was never intended to be such. There was always the recognition that if further evidence of further offences was produced, a prosecution was then a possibility. The reason for the outcome of the Downey case was that unfortunately a grave mistake was made, when Mr Downey was sent a letter saying he was not wanted for offences when in fact he was.
Mr Dodds
The grief, the words of devastation from the families of the soldiers concerned in the Hyde park bombing are an indictment of what is going on. There is outrage, not just in Northern Ireland but right across the country, about this—how an official’s letter can trump due process of law in this country. Will the Secretary of State realise how serious this is, not just for the process of law and order, but for the very stability and continued existence of devolution in Northern Ireland, where the Assembly has full responsibility for policing and justice, but these facts were withheld from the Justice Minister and the First Minister? This has very, very serious implications for devolution.
Mrs Villiers
I am very much aware of the very serious implications this case has, and they have also been conveyed to me by the First Minister, whom I look forward to meeting this evening to discuss this matter with.
As I announced yesterday, the Northern Ireland Office, along with the PSNI, is undertaking an urgent check of all letters that were issued under the scheme to establish whether any further mistakes were made that could lead to the same outcome that was witnessed in relation to the Downey case. It is also vital that we get to the bottom of why such a very serious mistake was made within the PSNI and why the PSNI did not draw it to the attention of the Northern Ireland Office, and of course I will be discussing this matter with David Ford and the First Minister.
Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)
2. What assessment she has made of the effects of the reduction in public sector jobs in Northern Ireland.
The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr Andrew Robathan)
The long-term sustainable answer for the Northern Ireland economy must be a private sector revival. There have been significant labour market improvements over the last year and private sector jobs are up by more than 10,000 from the beginning of 2012.
Chris Evans
I thank the Minister for that response. Ireland, like Wales, has traditionally been reliant on public sector jobs. It is estimated that 26,000 public sector jobs in Northern Ireland will be lost by 2017, so has the Secretary of State had a chance to study the active industrial policy of Wales, which in the last week has seen jobs attracted to Pinewood studios in Wentloog and to General Dynamics UK in Oakdale in my constituency?
Mr Robathan
Actually, I have not studied the experience of Wales, although, as the hon. Gentleman will know, my family comes from his constituency. However, through the Northern Ireland Executive, we have agreed the economic pact, which understands the need to rebalance the Northern Ireland economy further towards private sector involvement and less towards public sector employment. For instance, in terms of Pinewood studios we have got a rather interesting programme called—what is it called?
Mr Speaker
While the Minister is thinking about it, we will call a supplementary question. We are deeply obliged to the Minister.
Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)
12. What steps are being taken to encourage Northern Ireland to be plugged in to the digital economy?
Mr Robathan
May I just say that the programme a “Game of Thrones” is made in Belfast now? I do not recommend it personally, Mr Speaker, having watched the lot.
We are taking steps on the digital economy and indeed, throughout the United Kingdom, we are going for digital by default. We are very keen that more is done in Northern Ireland in terms of the use of internet and digital in general. We are very clear about that, but this matter is the responsibility of the Northern Ireland Executive and we help them with it through the economic pact.
Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP)
Contrary to the views of the Minister, and given the importance of public sector jobs to the local economy, what further measures will be taken to protect and retain Driver and Vehicle Agency jobs in Northern Ireland as well as Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs jobs in Newry?
Mr Robathan
The hon. Lady, for whom I have a great respect, has raised this matter with me before. What I would say about both public agencies is, first, they are not our responsibility: the DVA is, of course, the responsibility of the Department for Transport; and HMRC is the responsibility of HMRC. However, I would also say that we need to see in Northern Ireland and elsewhere—this refers to the last question—
Mr Robathan
It is the DVA in Northern Ireland.
In relation to the last question, those of us in the rest of the United Kingdom, for instance, register our vehicles online; I certainly do and I guess most other Members of the House do. People need to be able to do that in Northern Ireland as well. Changing working practices means that there will be changes in employment. We do not want to see anybody out of work, but we do need changes in working practices.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
To follow on from the question by the hon. Member for South Down (Ms Ritchie), the loss of the DVA jobs in Coleraine and the loss of HMRC jobs are very specific to Northern Ireland and will affect the economy. What discussions has the Minister had with Arlene Foster, the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment, to ensure that private enterprise can create jobs for those who are losing jobs?
Mr Robathan
There is a real drive towards getting more private sector jobs. For instance, only this month EE, the mobile phone company, has said that it will create 250 jobs in Northern Ireland; my hon. Friend will know that Arlene Foster and Ministers from the UK Government have visited the Singapore air show, and they hope to bring back potential contracts worth £479 million with Bombardier; and 100 jobs are being created with a £32 million investment in County Antrim. We are keen to get private sector jobs up there. We are getting private investment—the Government are on to exactly that. The economic pact and the investment conference last year are driving this forward, and we very much hope that by working together with the Northern Ireland Executive we get better employment.
Pat Glass (North West Durham) (Lab)
3. What steps she is taking to ensure a positive outcome from the Haass talks; and if she will make a statement.
Fiona O'Donnell (East Lothian) (Lab)
8. What recent progress has been made on the Haass talks.
Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab)
10. What steps she is taking to ensure a positive outcome from the Haass talks; and if she will make a statement.
The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mrs Theresa Villiers)
The UK Government continue to support and encourage party leaders in Northern Ireland as they pursue the Haass issues. A cross-party agreement on flags, parading and the past would deliver significant benefits for Northern Ireland.
Pat Glass
Next month, the Prime Minister and the Taoiseach meet for their second annual review of progress on the joint agreement. Does the Secretary of State agree that that offers an opportunity for both leaders to send out a strong message to all the parties in Northern Ireland about their commitment to securing agreement and advances on all the issues covered by Haass and papers, including the past?
Mrs Villiers
Both the Irish and the UK Governments are strongly supportive of the efforts made by the Northern Ireland parties to reach agreement on those three matters, including the past. I cannot anticipate exactly what will be in the communiqué, but I am sure that the Prime Minister and the Taoiseach will continue to express their support for the process, and the Tanaiste, Eamon Gilmore, continues to be in close touch with me on these matters.
Fiona O'Donnell
Does the Secretary of State agree with Amnesty International that any mechanism for dealing with the past has to be fully human rights compliant, not a patchwork? What legislation and resources does she think will be required to achieve that?
Mrs Villiers
Of course, any new structures would have to be compliant with the UK’s obligations under the Human Rights Act. As for resources, as I have said on a number of occasions, the UK Government would primarily expect the block grant given to the Northern Ireland Executive to be the source of funding for new arrangements on the past. If there is a proposal for additional funding, that would be considered seriously.
Mr Bain
Does the Secretary of State agree that if Northern Ireland is to have a prosperous future, it needs to reach full accommodation with the events of its past? What steps will she personally take to ensure that the progress that was made in the Haass agreement is carried forward into full agreement in future?
Mrs Villiers
I continue to urge the parties to seek a way forward and to set out the benefits that an agreement on flags, parading and the past would bring to Northern Ireland. I continue to engage closely with the Irish Government on these matters, and I shall continue to do all those things.
Patrick Mercer (Newark) (Ind)
What impact does the Secretary of State believe the Downey decision will have on the Haass talks?
Mrs Villiers
As the House has already heard, the Downey case raises very serious issues. It is absolutely right that we all reflect on the consequences of that decision, and that there is a thorough investigation into the grave mistake by the PSNI which, I am afraid, led to the outcome in the case yesterday.
Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con)
It has been suggested that a culture of trust needs to be developed. Will my right hon. Friend consider looking again at what are effectively the amnesties that were handed out? We need to look at that if Northern Ireland is to prosper in future.
Mrs Villiers
The scheme was created by the previous Government and, to be fair to them, it was never an amnesty, as I have explained to the House. These letters set out in a factual way whether individuals were believed to be wanted by the police in Northern Ireland or elsewhere in the UK. The current Government looked at the scheme in 2012 and decided that future inquiries should be sent to the devolved Administration in line with the devolution of policing and justice.
Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)
Will my right hon. Friend report on whether there have been any proposals for a timetable to be put in place so that we can progress the Haass talks and reach a conclusion that will be satisfactory for all parties?
Mrs Villiers
There has been much discussion of deadlines and timetables. I certainly think that it would be very helpful if the parties felt able to put together a road map towards reaching a full agreement, but I fully appreciate how difficult these issues are. As we have heard this morning, they have probably been made more difficult to resolve by the events of the last 24 hours.
Mr Peter Hain (Neath) (Lab)
On the past and the Downey case, I agree with the Secretary of State that there was never any question of an amnesty. May I also say that I make no apology for being part of a process that brought Northern Ireland from the hideous horror and evil of the past to the position where old enemies have now governed together for seven years in a stable, devolved Government—no apology for that at all? Just as we had to do deals with my Democratic Unionist party friends sitting over there to get to this point, so we have had to do deals with Sinn Fein to get to this point, and that was necessary for the negotiations to succeed and for peace to be established.
Mrs Villiers
Clearly, many difficult decisions were made as a result of the peace process. Some aspects of the Good Friday agreement were hard to swallow for many in the House, but I think that it is important that we reflect on the implications of the John Downey case and how a very serious mistake came to be made. Of course, as I have said to the House, we are urgently checking to ensure that similar mistakes were not made in any other cases.
Dr William McCrea (South Antrim) (DUP)
It is rather disgraceful that any former Secretary of State could compare the DUP to terrorists. Has not the Downey revelation in reality made the Haass talks a farce and destroyed any process Haass has ever started? Does it not erode confidence among the general law-abiding community, and is this not indeed a dark day for justice as far as the United Kingdom is concerned?
Mrs Villiers
My primary thoughts are with the families of those who died on that terrible day in July 1982. This whole episode must have provoked very painful memories. I am sure that it is a source of sadness and regret for them, as it is for us, that no one has been brought to justice for the Hyde park bombing. Despite the long shadow that this case is likely to cast, I hope that the Northern Ireland parties will continue to work together to see whether a solution can be found to deal with the legacy of the past in Northern Ireland.
Paul Murphy (Torfaen) (Lab)
Can the Secretary of State convince the House that there is still momentum left in the talks started by Ambassador Haass?
Mrs Villiers
As I have said, these are hugely important matters. It would be of great benefit to Northern Ireland if an agreed way forward could be found. Some very important work has been going on in recent weeks between the party leaders, with real dedication to try to find a way forward. There is no doubt that finding a way forward will now be more difficult, given the events of the past 24 hours, but I continue to encourage the parties to do so.
Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)
Does the Secretary of State agree that a key reason why we must deal with the past is the need to assure people that we did not end the dirty war just to end up with a dirty peace? Is that not even more imperative after yesterday’s revelations, which prove that some of us were right when we warned the right hon. Member for Neath (Mr Hain) and others that they were blighting the peace process with their penchant for side deals, pseudo-deals, sub-deals, shabby deals and secret deals, which are now doing fundamental damage to the Haass process and to the process more widely?
Mrs Villiers
I know that the hon. Gentleman was one of the foremost opponents of Labour’s proposed legislation on an amnesty, which was also opposed by both coalition parties. I cannot agree with him on his characterisation of Northern Ireland’s troubles as a dirty war. I believe that the vast majority of members of the Royal Ulster Constabulary and the military served with great integrity, distinction, courage and bravery, and we owe them all a huge debt of gratitude for creating the conditions in which peace was eventually found.
Mr Ivan Lewis (Bury South) (Lab)
Does the Secretary of State agree that the issues raised by the judgment in the John Downey case underline the importance of the Government supporting the all-party talks to reach an agreement that puts truth and justice for victims at the heart of dealing with the past? Can she confirm that the current Government have sent out a number of letters to on-the-runs as part of the scheme covered by the Downey case? Today it is important that above all else we remember the soldiers who lost their lives in Hyde park on that dreadful day in July 1982 and the suffering that their families continue to endure. That act was heinous and, like all terrorist atrocities, totally unjustifiable. The PSNI is right to apologise to the families of the victims and commit to an investigation into how such a horrendous error could have occurred.
Mrs Villiers
I agree that a way forward on the past must put victims at its heart. I can give the hon. Gentleman an assurance that I remain very supportive of efforts through the Haass process to find a way forward. I can confirm that 38 cases were dealt with by the current Government under the OTR administrative scheme. That was reviewed by the current Government, who decided that it was better for any future cases to be referred to the devolved authorities, in line with the devolution of policing and justice, but we did process a number of cases supplied prior to the general election. I also believe that it is absolutely vital that the PSNI investigates thoroughly why things went so badly wrong in relation to this case and that all of us in this House convey our deep and grave sympathy to the victims of the terrible atrocity that took place in Hyde park.
Mr Speaker
Order. First, there are far too many noisy private conversations taking place in the Chamber. Secondly, I very politely ask the Secretary of State please to speak up a little. Mr Lewis, I am sure that the second question will be much shorter than the first.
Mr Lewis
At a time when the Haass talks are seeking to focus on truth and justice for victims and their families, will the Secretary of State give a commitment today that the Government will stop buck-passing between Departments and prevent the Survivors for Peace programme going to the wall? At the invitation of Labour’s excellent parliamentary candidate in Warrington, Nick Bent, I had the privilege of visiting the Warrington peace centre last week. The Tim Parry Johnathan Ball Foundation for Peace, under the inspirational leadership of Colin and Wendy Parry, does a tremendous job and deserves support from this Government.
Mrs Villiers
I, too, have had the pleasure of visiting the peace centre; Colin Parry has done a wonderful job there. I am keen to work with my excellent hon. Friend the Member for Warrington South (David Mowat) to see whether we can find a way forward on the victims’ support charity. I assure the House that the future of the peace centre is secure; I understand that it is separate from the victims’ support charity. However, I fully appreciate the importance of seeking to find a way forward to resolve the difficulties that Colin Parry’s charity faces.
Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab)
5. What recent discussions she has had with the family and representatives of Pat Finucane.
The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr Andrew Robathan)
Neither my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State nor I have held any discussions with members of the Finucane family or their representatives recently.
Valerie Vaz
It is 25 years since the death of Patrick Finucane, and the Da Silva inquiry found shocking levels of state collusion. When will the Minister act on the growing calls for a public inquiry so that there can be justice for Patrick Finucane?
Mr Robathan
Today, when people have been speaking of the four soldiers murdered in Hyde park, one of whom I knew—and let us not forget the seven bandsmen murdered in Regent’s park at the same time—we should remember that the overwhelming majority of soldiers, RUC and Ulster Defence Regiment, served with distinction and with honour, as Desmond Da Silva said. Secondly, let me point out to the hon. Lady that the Prime Minister has already apologised twice for the collusion in the murder of Pat Finucane, which was of course disgraceful. The review by Desmond Da Silva found, I think, all the facts that needed to be known. The Secretary of State has indicated to the family that she will meet them should they wish to see her. However, there is a judicial review going on which queers this pitch slightly.
Sir Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con)
Does my right hon. Friend agree that the House can have full confidence in the justice and objectiveness of Sir Desmond Da Silva’s report, Sir Desmond Da Silva being a very distinguished international lawyer who has prosecuted war crimes in Sierra Leone, with the rank of Under-Secretary-General of the United Nations, and recently led the inquiry into war crimes in Syria?
Mr Robathan
I think we can all agree with that. Sir Desmond is a very distinguished lawyer who found out the facts. As I understand it, Mr Ken Barrett has already been convicted of the murder of Pat Finucane. I do not think that a public inquiry like the Saville inquiry would reveal more than we know already.
Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)
The Government have belatedly taken a very forthright view on the inquiry on the Pat Finucane case. Does not the firestorm around the Downey case ensure that the Government should take a position, stick to the position, make it clear that they are not moving from the position, and allow everyone to know that?
Mr Robathan
I think the firestorm to which the hon. Gentleman refers is one on which we should all reflect. It is important that we move forward. An enormous amount has been achieved in terms of peace in Northern Ireland, and I am concerned about where such actions as took place yesterday may actually lead.
Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab)
6. What recent assessment she has made of the effect of the Government’s economic policies on youth unemployment in Northern Ireland.
Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)
7. What recent assessment she has made of the Government’s economic policies on youth unemployment in Northern Ireland.
The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr Andrew Robathan)
Specific measures to address youth unemployment in Northern Ireland are the responsibility of the Executive there. The Government’s efforts to reduce the largest structural deficit in UK peacetime history are now bearing fruit. This, more than anything, will help deliver a sustainable economic recovery and so directly assist young people to find employment.
Alex Cunningham
But the fact remains that this Government continue to fail the young people of Northern Ireland even more than the young people of the rest of the country. Youth unemployment, at 23.8%, is a full 25% higher than the UK average, and that is bad enough. It is clear that special measures are required; does the Minister have anything specific in mind?
Mr Robathan
We are all concerned about youth unemployment; we must be. However, the hon. Gentleman should know that under the previous Government the number of under-25s in work dropped from 124,000 to 107,000. Under this Government, the number of under-25s in work has risen, and over 3,000 young people in Northern Ireland have come off benefits. It is a growing and improving economy across the United Kingdom that will deliver work to young people.
Debbie Abrahams
I am sorry, but that is just not good enough. We are in danger of seeing a lost generation. Nearly half of those who are unemployed have been unemployed for more than 12 months. What specifically are the Government doing so that we do not lose another generation of young people?
Mr Robathan
As I have, said, we are all concerned about youth unemployment, but this is a matter for the Northern Ireland Executive, not for us, because we have devolved that responsibility. It is a rising tide of economic recovery that will bring work to young people. The chief executive of the Prince’s Trust in Belfast has said:
“We’re quietly optimistic about the economy improving this year…it will take months if not years to filter through to…young people”.
That is what we want to see happening.
Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
My right hon. Friend will be aware that next week is the beginning of national apprenticeship week. What steps is he taking to promote that in Northern Ireland to encourage the employment of young people?
Mr Robathan
As I have said, this is a devolved matter, but I am delighted to say that there are high-tech and excellent jobs coming forward from companies like Bombardier and Thales which will have apprenticeships, which we applaud.
Stephen Pound (Ealing North) (Lab)
The Secretary of State will be aware that my hon. Friend the Member for Bury South (Mr Lewis) recently visited the Secret Garden project, which employs young people with learning disabilities on the Hillsborough estate. They face redundancy. Will the Secretary of State reconsider her decision not to compensate the charity for the £400,000 investment it made in improving the site, and ask Historic Royal Palaces to consider retaining its involvement?
Mr Robathan
We all, of course, applaud any work with people with learning disabilities. However, that does not mean that this is the best way in which people can be served by a charity in Hillsborough, which would diminish the opportunity for Historic Royal Palaces to look after Hillsborough castle. I question the figure of £400,000 and think we should go back and look at the accounts more carefully.
Graeme Morrice (Livingston) (Lab)
Q1. If he will list his official engagements for Wednesday 26 February.
The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron)
This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others, and in addition to my duties in this House I shall have further such meetings later today.
Graeme Morrice
I thank the Prime Minister for his answer, but I think we should congratulate Team GB on its tremendous success at the recent winter Olympics.
This week HSBC announced staff bonuses of £2.3 billion and a 140% pay rise to its chief executive. When ordinary British families face a cost of living crisis and too many people languish on the dole, is it not time for this Government to listen to Labour and to tax bank bonuses to get our young people back to work?
The Prime Minister
Let me join the hon. Gentleman in congratulating Team GB on its best medal performance at a winter games since 1924. It was a huge honour to welcome them to Downing street, where I had an explanation of the tasks of skeleton bobsleighing and, indeed, curling. Our congratulations go to everyone involved and all those who helped to train them.
Bank bonuses are well down from the appalling situation that was left by the previous Labour Government, but what we need to see is the proper control of all forms of pay and bonuses. What I do not want to see, and what I think we would get from the Labour party, is a focus only on bonuses, because, of course, you can claw back a bonus, but you cannot claw back pay. We do not want to go back to the days of Fred Goodwin, where you could be paid well for an appalling performance.
Sir Alan Beith (Berwick-upon-Tweed) (LD)
Q2. Does the Prime Minister recognise that it is part of the job of Church leaders to challenge Governments about poverty? Will he discuss with them measures that can help people out of poverty, like the pupil premium, cutting tax on low pay and measures to help troubled families? There is nothing particularly moral about pouring even more borrowed money into systems that can trap people in poverty and dependence on state benefits.
The Prime Minister
My right hon. Friend, who is himself a distinguished churchman, talks perfect sense. There is nothing moral about running up huge deficits and out-of-control welfare bills. If we do not deal with those problems the whole country will be poorer. We should listen to the words of George Carey, the former Archbishop of Canterbury, who said that
“the churches should beware of the dangers of blithely defending a gargantuan welfare budget that every serious politician would cut as a matter of economic common sense.”
I think that serious politicians have to engage with this, and that should go for everybody.
Edward Miliband (Doncaster North) (Lab)
I join my hon. Friend the Member for Livingston (Graeme Morrice) and the Prime Minister in congratulating Team GB on a brilliant performance at the winter Olympics.
As the immediate threat of floods passes, there are still thousands out of their homes; parts of the Somerset levels are still under water; and hundreds of businesses and farms are still struggling to recover. The Committee on Climate Change, the House of Commons Library and the UK Statistics Authority have all now said that Government investment in flood defences has fallen. In the light of this and of the events we have seen, does the Prime Minister think it is right to revisit the plans for investment in flood defences?
The Prime Minister
We will look very carefully at the plans for flood defences, but of course we have set out spending figures all the way to 2020, not all of which are fully committed, which are major investments in flood defences. As I said two weeks ago, as the waters recede and as the Environment Agency and others can look at what happened, we can review and see what new measures might be necessary. Let me just repeat the point that in this four-year period, and indeed in this Parliament, overall spending on flood defences has gone up.
Edward Miliband
I am afraid that the figures the Prime Minister is quoting are phoney, and I believe he knows it. This is what the UK Statistics Authority says—[Interruption.] I know that Government Members do not want to hear it, but it says:
“government funding for flood defences was lower in both nominal and real terms during the current spending period than during the last”.
The only way to claim otherwise is by ignoring inflation and claiming credit for the money that other organisations—other than Government—spend. Why does the Prime Minister not admit it? They have cut flood defence spending, and he has been caught out.
The Prime Minister
The fact is that in the period from 2010, when I became Prime Minister, to 2014, the spending has been £2.4 billion—more than the £2.2 billion in the previous four years. In the five-year period of this Parliament, during all of which I will be Prime Minister, the spending is higher than for the previous five years. Those are the facts.
I have to say to the right hon. Gentleman that I think having this debate is slightly pointless. The whole country should be coming together to deal with flood defences. The fact is that from the moment he turned up in a flooded village with the Labour candidate alongside him, he has completely misjudged the mood of the country.
Edward Miliband
First, let me say to the Prime Minister that if it is a simple choice between the UK Statistics Authority and him, people will believe the UK Statistics Authority on what has happened. The assessment of how much to invest in flood defence depends significantly on an assessment of the risks posed by man-made climate change. In opposition, he said this about climate change:
“It’s easy to do the softer things like ride your bike, visit glaciers and rebuild your house to make it green”—
it is he who said it—
“but it’s only clear you mean it when you do the tough things as well. Like telling the truth about climate change.”
So what is the truth about climate change?
The Prime Minister
The truth about climate change is that this Government have a programme to reduce carbon right across our economy. We started with the Government themselves: compared with the Government the right hon. Gentleman left in 2010, when he was Energy and Climate Change Secretary, the Government’s own carbon emissions are down 14%.
Let me just return to the issue of flood defence spending, because I think the people of this country will want to know this. The right hon. Gentleman is committed to a zero-based spending review. [Interruption.] “Yes, we are,” says the shadow Chancellor in an unusually helpful intervention. A zero-based spending review means that the Opposition cannot pledge to match the flood spending we are making in 2016, 2017, 2018 and all the way to 2020. The people of this country have absolutely no guarantee that they will take either climate change seriously or flood defences seriously.
Edward Miliband
What total nonsense, and the Prime Minister knows it. It is very interesting, because someone who in opposition wanted to talk as much as he could about climate change is now desperate to get off the subject. I asked him a question: will he just set out for his party and for the country his views on man-made climate change?
The Prime Minister
I believe that man-made climate change is one of the most serious threats that this country and this world face. That is why we have the world’s first green investment bank here in Britain. That is why, unlike in the 13 wasted years of Labour, we are building the first nuclear power station for 30 years in this country. That is why we have cut the carbon that is emitted by the Government by 14% since coming to office. That is why we have set out, year after year, carbon budgets for this country. The Opposition talk a good game, but it takes people to come in and govern effectively to deal with it.
Edward Miliband
Excellent; we are getting somewhere. I agree with what the Prime Minister said about the importance of climate change. The reason this matters is that people in the most important positions in his Government are going around questioning climate change. The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs has said:
“People get very emotional about this subject and I think we should just accept that the climate has been changing for centuries,”
and he refuses to be briefed on climate change. The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change, the right hon. Member for Sevenoaks (Michael Fallon), when asked about climate change, said:
“You are not going to draw me on that. I’ve not had time to get into the…climate change debate.”
That is the Energy Minister! Will the Prime Minister clarify his position? Is he happy to have climate change deniers in his Government?
The Prime Minister
This is obviously the new approach to Prime Minister’s questions: the right hon. Gentleman comes to the House and praises the Prime Minister for his commitment on climate change and the environment. I like the new style. I thought that I might miss Punch and Judy, but this is much more refreshing.
The Government have a solid track record of cutting carbon, negotiating internationally and investing in nuclear. We have the biggest renewable energy programme in our country’s history. For the first time in a long time, we are on track to meet our renewables targets. Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman would like to get up again and congratulate me on that excellent record on the environment.
Edward Miliband
The whole country will have heard that the Prime Minister cannot answer the question about whether people need to believe in man-made climate change to be part of his Government. He has gone from thinking that it was a basic part of his credo to thinking that it is a matter of individual conscience. He used to claim that it was his passion above all else. Here’s the thing: if we are properly to protect—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. The questions and the answers will be heard, however long it takes. Those who are exercising their vocal cords in a rather excessive way really ought to calm down. There is quite a long way to go.
Edward Miliband
Here’s the thing: if we are properly to protect the British people against the threats that they face, we cannot have doubt and confusion in the Government on the issue of climate change. The Prime Minister needs to rediscover the courage of his past convictions and tell his party to get real on climate change.
The Prime Minister
People can measure the courage of my convictions by my acts in government: the green investment bank, the cuts in carbon, the investment in renewables and the investment in nuclear. The right hon. Gentleman talks a good game, but he did not achieve anything in office. The most serious form of denial in British politics today comes from the reality deniers of the Labour party. What is their plan for the deficit? Nothing. What is their plan for welfare reform? Nothing. What is their plan for long-term investment, because that is what is required in respect of climate change? It requires long-term investment like high-speed rail, long-term investment like nuclear power and long-term investment like fixing our economy. That is what this Government are doing. All he does is get up and deliver a lot of hot air.
Sir Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con)
Q3. Will my right hon. Friend seek advice on the report by the whistleblowing commission set up by Public Concern at Work, which was led by Sir Anthony Hooper and included Michael Woodford, the whistleblower at Olympus, and see whether he can bring together people in Government to consider its recommendations and how we can stop the persecution of people like Dr Kim Holt, who was the whistleblower before the baby P case, and others whom I will not mention now?
The Prime Minister
I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s question. As he knows, the Public Interest Disclosure Act 1998 protects most workers from being unfairly dismissed by their employer when they have reported a matter of concern—when they have blown the whistle. We strengthened those protections in the Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Act 2013. We will always back whistleblowers when they challenge poor standards, particularly in large organisations. I am happy to ensure that he discusses with the relevant Minister—probably the Minister for Government Policy—any further steps that we need to take in that direction.
Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)
Does the Prime Minister get the depth of the hurt among victims’ families, and the deep sense of public outrage right across the country as a result of the outcome of the Downey case? He needs to understand that for a letter signed by an official to trump due process and the courts of this land without any parliamentary, legislative or statutory underpinning, is deeply offensive to the public in this country. Will he now scrap these get-out-of-jail-free letters immediately, and will he do everything in his power to reverse the despicable decision in the Downey case, so that justice can be done for the families of the bereaved?
The Prime Minister
First, I completely understand the depth of anger and concern that people will feel right across the country about the appalling events that happened in 1982, and the fact that the person responsible is now not going to be appropriately tried. Of course that is absolutely shocking, and our first thought should be with those 11 soldiers and their families and friends. It may have happened 32 years ago, but anyone who has lost someone in a situation like that will mourn them today as if it happened yesterday. We should be absolutely clear: Downey should never have received the letter that he received. It was a dreadful mistake, and we now need to have a rapid factual review to make sure that this cannot happen again. Whatever happens, we have to stick to the principle that we are a country and a Government under the rule of law.
Lorraine Fullbrook (South Ribble) (Con)
Q4. My right hon. Friend has taken swift action to help flood-hit communities, and I welcome the £10 million relief fund for farmers. The grade 1 farmland in the Alt-Crossens basin is at risk from Environment Agency scaremongering to reduce land drainage and close pumping stations. In light of recent events, will my right hon. Friend reassure growers in my constituency that the necessary protections will be given to their land, and that as well as being able to react swiftly, the Government are planning for the long-term security of this profitable industry?
The Prime Minister
My hon. Friend makes an important point and I am glad that she is advertising to her farmers the availability of the £10 million fund, which I hope will be useful for those who have lost productive land because it has been under water for so long. The point she makes about farmers, landowners and others being nervous about dredging and draining their land because of EA rules is a good one. As I have said before, I think the pendulum swung too far against dredging, and that needs to change and that will change. It is not the only answer or the whole answer to the problems she discusses, but it does have a proper part in properly managing the landscape.
Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab)
Q5. The tragic death on a Birmingham street of Sarah Child devastated her family and shocked the community. A much-loved sister and daughter, she was killed, and her sister Claire—who was pregnant—was severely injured by a speeding driver doing 64 mph, who got but four years in prison. Does the Prime Minister agree that the time has come to look again at the sentencing of those who kill with a car?
The Prime Minister
First, my heart goes out to the hon. Gentleman’s constituent who was tragically killed in this incident, and to her family. I do think it right to look again at motoring offences and the penalties that are given. I have discussed this issue with the Secretary of State for Justice, who has already made some proposals and changes in that area. I am sure he will be listening carefully to what the hon. Gentleman has said.
Charlotte Leslie (Bristol North West) (Con)
Q6. The response of NHS Wales to Sir Bruce Keogh’s e-mail recommending a Keogh-style investigation into Welsh hospitals of concern was that it would respond only to legitimate concerns. Is the Prime Minister as astounded as I am that NHS Wales thinks that the views of the chief medical director of England, and now the Royal College of Surgeons, are not legitimate, and will he work with the Leader of the Opposition and try to persuade him to get his party in Wales to reverse that terrible decision and carry out an investigation into Welsh hospitals that could save lives?
The Prime Minister
My hon. Friend makes a very important point and Sir Bruce Keogh’s views should be respected and listened to by the NHS in Wales. In particular, she makes a point about the Royal College of Surgeons and what it has said today, which is effectively that there are people on NHS waiting lists in Wales who are dying because waiting lists are too long and because the NHS is not being properly managed, properly funded and properly reformed in Wales. That is a matter for the Labour Welsh Assembly Government, and they need to get their act together.
Dame Tessa Jowell (Dulwich and West Norwood) (Lab)
Will the Prime Minister accept the overwhelming humanitarian case for guaranteeing long-term support to victims and survivors of terrorism? If so, will he agree to meet with me, Colin Parry and survivors of the 7/7 London bombings who have benefited from the services of the Survivors for Peace programme, which is now facing imminent closure? In doing so, will he remember his pledge that survivors of terrorism must know that they always have the support of the whole country?
The Prime Minister
First, may I commend the right hon. Lady for the extraordinary work she did in government and continues to do in opposition to help the survivors of terrorist attacks, particularly the dreadful attacks that took place in London? I have seen at first hand the experience and brilliant touch that she brings to this important work. I am very happy to have the meetings she discussed. The Foundation for Peace is a unique charity that does an extraordinary job in supporting victims and families. I will be discussing its future with my hon. Friend the Member for Warrington South (David Mowat) too. Obviously, we want to make sure that all these institutions can continue their excellent work. I am happy to hold those discussions with the right hon. Lady and, as I said, with my hon. Friend.
Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con)
Q7. We all want to see a more balanced economy. Does the Prime Minister agree that today’s stonking upward rise in business investment of over 9% shows that British business and British entrepreneurs are really rising to this challenge?
The Prime Minister
My hon. Friend makes an important point. Right across this House, many experts have been saying that what we need is a balanced recovery—one that sees increases in exports as well as increases in consumption, and one that sees increases in investment from business. The uprating of the GDP figures showing an increase in exports, and, as he says, a very large increase in business investment, is hugely welcome for our country.
Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP)
Q8. Given yesterday’s court revelations of a secret scheme, does the Prime Minister believe that, as well as the parties in Northern Ireland progressing the elements on dealing with the past from the Haass talks, there is a need for transparency from the two Governments regarding the confused and shabby ways in which they sought to deal with the past since the agreement, remembering that Downing street was involved in this matter?
The Prime Minister
I agree with the hon. Lady that the Haass talks made some good progress. They were trying to deal with some of the most difficult issues in Northern Ireland, in terms of flags and parades, and perhaps the most difficult issue of all, the past. It is going to take a lot of courage and bravery from people on all sides in order to make progress in this way. She wants to point the finger, apparently, particularly at Downing street. I would argue that, when it has come to dealing with things like the Bloody Sunday inquiry and the de Silva report, Downing street is very happy to play its role in helping to bring parties together to make sure that we continue with peace in Northern Ireland.
Mr Richard Bacon (South Norfolk) (Con)
Given what the Prime Minister has called the Leader of the Opposition’s new approach and Chancellor Angela Merkel’s forthcoming visit tomorrow, does he think that there is something we can learn from her about an even broader based approach to coalition building that would unite the whole country? While it is true that under such circumstances he would have to give some red meat to Labour and some red meat to us, it would have the huge advantage for all of us of leaving the Liberal Democrats where they belong.
The Prime Minister
My admiration for Angela Merkel is enormous and there are many things that she has achieved that I would like to copy, not least getting re-elected, but a grand coalition is one thing I do not want to copy. I think the idea of a grand coalition is a bit too much for me.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
Q9. What steps will the Prime Minister and the Government take to insist that the National Crime Agency co-operates with the Police Service of Northern Ireland under the legislation to tackle people trafficking in Northern Ireland? Will he give an assurance that those involved in criminality in Northern Ireland will not be in possession of a letter that is their passport to freedom, ever mindful that the NCA does not have free reign in Northern Ireland?
The Prime Minister
The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. I have been very impressed by the work the National Crime Agency is now doing. I think it is a huge improvement on its predecessor. It has got real strength, heft and numbers in terms of being able to tackle organised crime. It is bad for Northern Ireland that the NCA is not able to properly operate there. I hope that over time, with talks between the parties, it will be possible to make progress. That would be good for Northern Ireland and good for our fight against organised crime.
Nadine Dorries (Mid Bedfordshire) (Con)
May I take this opportunity to congratulate you, Mr Speaker, on your new role as chancellor of Bedfordshire university?
In the last three years, 99 brave soldiers have given their lives for this country in Afghanistan. In the same period, 264 British women have been murdered—murders perpetrated by men—and over three quarters of those women were stalked before they were murdered. Will the Prime Minister please give a guarantee that this Government will introduce legislation to protect women from that fate in the future, particularly given the ease with which stalkers can now begin their stalking activities via social media and the internet?
The Prime Minister
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for what she says. She is right that stalking is an appalling crime. It can destroy lives and we need to do as much as we can to crack down on it. We have, of course, introduced a new offence to make absolutely clear the view that we take of it. The new stalking laws are also equally applicable to online, cyber-stalking and harassment, and the Crown Prosecution Service has published guidelines for involving communications sent via social media, so we tackle this in the online world as well as the physical world. However, I am very happy to write to my hon. Friend with all the detail of all the things we are doing and to see whether there are further steps we can take.
Helen Jones (Warrington North) (Lab)
Q10. When the Prime Minister was asked about the bedroom tax last year, he said:“what we have done is to exempt disabled people who need an extra room.”—[Official Report, 27 November 2013; Vol. 571, c. 254.]Now that we know that people with terminal illness who cannot share a room, those who have to store equipment such as dialysis machines and families with severely disabled children who need occasional respite are all subject to this pernicious tax, would he like to revise that answer and to apologise to the disabled people to whom he gave false hope?
The Prime Minister
First, let me repeat—this is a basic issue of fairness—that people who are renting in the private sector do not get additional money for rooms that they do not use, so it is not fair to have a different set of rules for the social sector. But we also have a large discretionary payment system in order to help families such as the ones the hon. Lady mentions.
Jessica Lee (Erewash) (Con)
Q11. Does the Prime Minister agree that the increase in jobs—or, as has been said, the “stonking” increase—in the private sector is leading the UK’s economic recovery and is helped, if I may say so, by the range of engineers, manufacturers and retailers in Erewash, who are employing people and sending their exports round the world?
The Prime Minister
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We now have 1.6 million new private sector jobs, meaning that there are 1.3 million more people employed in our country. We are seeing that growth in employment in every region of the country. Some are growing faster than others, and we need to keep up the work to make sure that this is a broadly balanced recovery, but one of the indicators of economic success is that week in, week out, the leader of the Labour party comes to the House of Commons and cannot mention employment. He cannot talk about the economy or about jobs, investment and growth, because all the things he said would never happen are happening in our economy.
Michael Connarty (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) (Lab)
Could the Prime Minister focus on the fact that Atos now wants to give up its contract for the work capability test? Is it not time to change the test back to one based on the medical evidence of the consultants of those who are applying? When 158,000 appeals are upheld, surely it is time for him also to rescind his decision to charge people for appeals.
The Prime Minister
First, I hope it is not too uncharitable to point out that the Atos contract was actually awarded by the last Labour Government. Of course we are now discussing and debating with the company how this should be taken forward, but the fact is that we do need in this country a way of determining whether people are fit for work. When it comes also to the issue of sanctions in our benefits system, frankly it is right that people who are offered a job and do not take it should now face a sanction. I think that will be the choice at the next election: one party in favour of hard-working people; another party obsessed by bigger and bigger benefits.
Sir Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD)
Q12. Britain’s armed forces are the best. They defend our interests at home and overseas and, as we are witnessing, are taking essential action in flooded areas. Prime Minister, please recognise the folly of reducing the size of Her Majesty’s armed forces and stop sacking full-time servicemen and women.
The Prime Minister
First, let me take this opportunity to praise the extraordinary role that armed forces personnel have played during the floods in our country over the past few weeks. It has been extraordinary to see their work.
What we have done, in terms of defence, is remove the £38 billion black hole that we were left. Of course, that meant making difficult decisions, including difficult decisions about the size of the Army, Navy and Air Force, but we now have one of the top five defence budgets in the world, in terms of spending. We are coming to the end of all the redundancy schemes, and we can now point loudly and proudly to the extraordinary investment that we shall be making in type 45 destroyers, new aircraft carriers, our hunter-killer submarines and our A400M aircraft—the best equipment that any armed forces could have anywhere in the world.
Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)
Q15. Yesterday I met Billy. He is 24 years old, and he had worked since the age of 15 until he lost his job a year ago. Billy told me that he had to resort to going through supermarket skips to find out-of-date food just so that he could eat. Billy is desperate to work. Why will the Prime Minister not offer him a job guarantee, rather than his having to scavenge for food in Iceland’s bins?
The Prime Minister
What we are doing for Billy, and for thousands like him, is offering jobs and hope that simply were not there under the last Labour Government. Opposition Members come here week after week to try to say that the country is somehow poorer or worse off under this Government, but let me remind the hon. Lady what it was like in 2009. In 2009, there were 1 million more people in poverty, 500,000 more children in poverty, 150,000 more unemployed people, and 750,000 more people claiming benefit than there are today. So yes, there is more to do, but we have a proud record of giving people jobs, because we are sticking to a long-term economic plan.
Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con)
Q13. Just over a week ago, I joined year 5 and 6 pupils at Revel primary school in Monks Kirby, in my constituency. I asked them what they would like to ask the Prime Minister. One of them said that he would like to know why the Government kept on making so many new laws. I wonder if the Prime Minister could tell my young constituent what his Administration is doing to reduce the burden of legislation.
The Prime Minister
I think that my hon. Friend’s constituent could have a promising future in this place, because that is the sort of attitude that we need. I would say to my hon. Friend’s constituent that this will be the first Government since the war to leave office at the end of their term with fewer regulations in place than were there at the beginning. That is because of the excellent work of the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills and of the Minister for Government Policy, my right hon. Friend the Member for West Dorset (Mr Letwin), who have done a brilliant job in taking regulation off business so that we can create the wealth and jobs that we need.
Joan Walley (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Lab)
The Prime Minister will know of the disappointment that there has been no oral statement to the House about the future of Stafford hospital. University Hospital of North Staffordshire is expected to take on the entire running of the combined sites for the people of north Staffordshire. Does the Prime Minister accept that at the last count there was a funding gap of £39 million in capital costs and £4 million in revenue costs? Will he ensure that whatever the new arrangements are, there will be an opportunity to question the Government, and that these changes will not proceed at the expense of the health of people in north Staffordshire?
The Prime Minister
What I can say to the hon. Lady is that a written statement is being made today about the future of Stafford hospital. It has been very difficult to try to deal with the appalling situation that we were in with that hospital. I am sure that there will be opportunities to debate the issue in the House, but I think the hon. Lady will see that what are being proposed are good steps to ensure that A and E continues at Stafford hospital, and hard work to establish whether it will be possible to continue consultant-led maternity services in the future so that people can go on having their babies delivered at the hospital. That is what I want to see. My right hon. Friend the Health Secretary will set out his proposals later, and I am sure that there will be many opportunities to debate them—and, indeed, to debate all the lessons that need to be learnt from the failure of Stafford hospital in the past.
Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)
Q14. Earlier this month, millions of Londoners were inconvenienced by a pointless Underground strike which was supported by only 30% of union members. Will my right hon. Friend agree to conduct a review with the aim of increasing the threshold so that pointless strikes in our public services can be outlawed?
The Prime Minister
My hon. Friend has made a good point. When we see how many people rely on essential public services, we know that the time has come to consider what changes we can make, and whether it is possible for us to see fewer of these strikes in future.
Another problem is that, despite repeated requests, the Labour party has completely refused to condemn what was a totally unnecessary strike. However, I do not think that we should be surprised, because this week they are all going on a cosy weekend with their trade union masters. We were told that they were heading for divorce; I think that they are going to renew their vows.