Baroness Berridge
To ask His Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to protect the ceremonial status of Rutland’s lieutenancy in the forthcoming local government reorganisation.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government (Baroness Taylor of Stevenage) (Lab)
My Lords, how wonderful to go from the outer reaches of the world to Rutland and the lieutenancy. That is the benefit of our House. I thank the noble Baroness for her Question. I understand that she has close personal connections with Rutland.
Our Government believe that the historic identity, rights and privileges of counties in England are extremely important and should be safeguarded and celebrated. There is no intention that reorganisation will impact on ceremonial rights and privileges, and we will ensure that they are maintained. Where specific provision is needed in legislation, this will be considered as necessary to reflect the local circumstances in each area. On Rutland, Minister McMahon has met and provided written assurances to Alicia Kearns MP. I have met the leader of Rutland County Council, who also raised this issue with me.
Baroness Berridge (Con)
I thank the Minister for the clarification that if legislation is needed to protect the county status, it will be given. I am sure the Answer will be welcomed by the more than 7,000 people in Rutland who signed the petition about the ceremonial status that was presented in the other place by Alicia Kearns recently. But will the Minister please confirm the timing of that legislation? That is the issue that people from Rutland have raised with me. Bizarrely, when the unitary authority is abolished, the ceremonial status will be abolished. Can the Minister confirm that that will not happen until primary legislation has preserved that status? Which legislation is it envisaged that that issue would be within the scope of?
Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)
We are still in the process of working with that local area on its proposals for unitary local government. We invited its proposals, and councils in the area sent us their interim plans in March and received detailed written feedback on those submissions in June. At this stage, no decisions have been taken on those interim proposals, so decisions will be taken on that in due course. The legislation to enact the devolution proposals has just been introduced in the other place. So, as that proceeds, we will be considering carefully the sequencing of any further legislation that is needed in respect of these ceremonial boundaries, which we all want to protect and safeguard.
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)
The Minister is absolutely right that it is a great tribute to the House of Lords that we can look after the interests of the 41,000 people of Rutland, the lord-lieutenant and the 12 deputy lieutenants. Does she also agree that if President Putin and President Trump did the same in their own countries, the world would be a better place?
Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)
I think that is probably a question for my noble friend Lord Collins to answer, rather than me. But the point is that this issue of devolution will provide greater power and decision-making, and greater funding, for all our local areas. That is a benefit to all of us in the country, and I look forward to working with all areas, including Leicestershire, Leicester and Rutland, as we move these proposals forward. It is a great project we are working on, and the community empowerment part of the Bill is as important as the English devolution part.
Lord Caine (Con)
My Lords, it is over 50 years since one of the most unloved reforms of local government in our history. Given the changes that are now taking place, has the time not now come to drop altogether the word “county” from local government administrative units and to restore, for ceremonial purposes, including by realigning lieutenancies, all our historic counties with their traditional boundaries, including of course the Ridings of God’s own county of Yorkshire?
Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)
We all want to see all power and strength to Yorkshire. None of us would be without our Yorkshire Tea, would we? It is very important. At the moment, local government is engaged not only in local government reorganisation but in the devolution project. We will consider whether any further realignment of ceremonial boundaries is necessary, and there will be some areas where further legislation is needed on this. For the moment, we will work with local government to do the reorganisation. If the noble Lord wants to talk to me further about the West Riding or anywhere else, I am happy to have that discussion with him.
Baroness Pinnock (LD)
My Lords, 50 years ago, as we have heard, there was a reorganisation of some of the great counties of our country. In some instances, communities that had no previous relationship were forced together. What assessment have the Government made of the success or otherwise of creating a coherent whole from an artificial amalgam?
Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)
As the noble Baroness will know, I grew up in a new town in Hertfordshire, which, when it was first announced, was not the most popular decision. That was back in 1946. We have all worked together on this, and now we have a very coherent picture in Hertfordshire. People work with us, and we are working on our unitary proposals. There are always memories of historical areas that people want to retain, and I think the Answer to the noble Baroness’s Question set out that the Government recognise how important these ceremonial areas are. Some of them go way back in history, and we have a lot to do to undertake the local government reorganisation. So, if there is any further reorganisation to be done, we can certainly consider it. But I think there is enough going on for the moment. These historical memories are really important to people, and we should value and treasure them. That history and heritage are part of our country.
Baroness Eaton (Con)
My Lords, I declare my interest as a vice-president of the Local Government Association. Rutland County Council is one of England’s highest-performing local authorities, not least in the area of adult social care. Rutland residents have always felt very close to their council and their elected members, and all decisions have been made locally. With that in mind, will the Minister outline the tangible benefits for Rutlanders of forcing this small but perfectly formed council to become part of a larger unitary authority, and what data has the Minister based her views on?
Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)
First, no forcing is involved here. We put out an offer to submit proposals and have had proposals back. I have met all the councils in Leicestershire and Rutland and, separately, the Mayor of Leicester. There is a very strong will in the county to work together—they have been working very well together—and we look forward to taking these proposals forward with them. I hope it is of reassurance, not only to Leicestershire, Rutland and Leicester but to other counties in our country, that administratively they will be working under different boundaries but that will not affect some of the historical links that they have between them.
Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)
I have just been reading the newly published English Devolution and Community Empowerment Bill; I have not yet got through the full 300 pages but I am puzzled by the term “community empowerment”. The Bill empowers mayors and strategic authorities and gives mayors the power to appoint up to seven commissioners, who will be responsible only to them; it cuts down the role of individual councillors; and the strategic authorities will be a very long way above local communities. Should we not cut “community empowerment” from that Bill?
Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)
I am sorry but I strongly disagree with the noble Lord’s view on that. We want to improve engagement, and this will create a fantastic role for community councillors to work with their local areas. We are very clear on the importance of engagement and of developing proposals for strong, stable unitary councils fit for the future, including engagement with local residents and stakeholders, Members of Parliament, businesses and public service providers.
Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)
My Lords, can the Minister please clarify the anticipated timescale for local government reorganisation in England, and indicate what elections for which authorities are expected to take place in the next year?
Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)
The Government’s starting point on elections is for all elections to go ahead unless there is a strong justification. So we anticipate that for areas except Surrey—which, as the noble Baroness will be aware, is moving on a much faster timescale, being on the most ambitious timeline—there could be elections to new unitary councils in May 2027, ahead of the go-live of new councils on 1 April 2028.