(1 day, 4 hours ago)
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Rebecca Paul (Reigate) (Con)
I am grateful for being granted this debate on the safety and wellbeing of women in HMP Downview. Women prisoners are some of the most vulnerable in our society, yet very few people give much thought to the conditions in which they are being held. Today I want to draw attention to an unacceptable situation, one that not only places these women at risk of harm but that fails to recognise their basic rights. The law is being broken and it is being broken by our public institutions.
It was in 1823 that the Gaols Act was passed, mandating sex-segregated prisons. Before then, women in prison faced sexual assault and exploitation on a daily basis. Elizabeth Fry brought about important reforms that improved conditions for women, but she would be turning in her grave at where we now find ourselves over 200 years later.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
I commend the hon. Lady for bringing this debate forward; I spoke to her beforehand in relation to it, and I thank her for raising the issue. Reports have shown that there has been a 90% increase in the number of mentally unwell women at Downview, who face extended delays in getting the support they need. The situation is the same back home at Hydebank Wood in Northern Ireland. In addition, prison staff are not trained mental health professionals, so the necessary healthcare support is not in place. Does the hon. Lady agree that there must be provision to properly train prison staff to support them in supporting prisoners who are faced with long delays and deteriorating mental health?
Rebecca Paul
That is absolutely right and the situation at HMP Downview is a great source of concern to me, which is why I am raising it with the Minister.
However, I want to move on to another issue. Once again, we have mixed-sex prisons—inclusion trumping safety, ideology winning out over reality, the feelings of a man holding more weight than the fears of many women. HMP Downview is a women’s prison in Banstead, near the Sutton border. It includes a wing, E Wing, specifically for biological males who identify as women. E Wing local policy sets out that it is for transgender women with or without a gender recognition certificate where risk indicates they cannot be safely held in the general women’s estate.
Over the course of the last year, between five and seven males have been housed in this wing. The Minister in the other place has said that these males are vulnerable. Before I look at the facts, I have a warning: some may find the data difficult as it yields an uncomfortable truth, but one that it is incumbent upon this House not to ignore.
In 2024, of the 245 transgender males—biological males with a trans identity—in prison, 151, or 62%, were convicted of a sexual offence. This is a far, far higher rate than that for the overall male prison population, which is only around 17%. And it is not a one-off either: a similar rate can be seen for 2023—a rate of 56%. So sexual offences are massively over-represented in this specific cohort of biological males.
Rosie Duffield (Canterbury) (Ind)
Will the hon. Lady make it clear again for anyone watching this debate that what she is saying is that those biological males—fully intact biological males—housed on the women’s estate are overwhelmingly convicted of violent sexual offences?
Rebecca Paul
I thank the hon. Lady for making that point. This is the reality of the data; we must not ignore what the data tells us. I did warn that it makes for an uncomfortable truth, but I can verify all of it and provide hon. Members with the data—I would not come to the House and give hon. Members incorrect data. Accordingly, we can conclude that the male transgender prison population poses a much higher risk to women and girls.
When people parrot the line that transwomen are not a threat to women, in the case of the prison population, I am afraid that that statement does not hold up. Zoe Watts, a biological male who identifies as a women, was jailed for eight years and six months after trying to use a 3D printer to make a gun that had the capacity to cause mass casualties. He was arrested by armed officers and a stockpile of weapons and materials was found at his home. There was a disturbing video on social media of him smashing a watermelon with women’s faces on it using a glass shard-encrusted baseball bat. He was put in HMP Downview.
Joanna Rowland-Stuart, a biological male who identifies as a woman, who stabbed his partner to death with a samurai sword, was put in HMP Downview too. John Dixon, now known as Sally, is a paedophile who was found guilty of 30 sexual assault charges involving seven children, some as young as six years old. He may have been held in HMP Downview too.
There are also more well known transwomen prisoners who have hit the headlines, such as Isla Bryson and Karen White, both incarcerated with women. Isla Bryson, from Scotland, was jailed for raping two women, but only after being charged did he come out as transgender. This dangerous rapist was remanded in a women’s prison. Holyrood, it seems, is even worse than Westminster for drinking the gender Kool-Aid. The case of Karen White is even more appalling. A transwoman convicted of rape and a knife attack, he was remanded in HMP New Hall, a women’s and young offenders’ prison, where he sexually assaulted two inmates. Thankfully, this dangerous predator is no longer in the women’s prison estate.
I hope hon. Members understand why I have grave concerns about such violent males continuing to be incarcerated with women. Not only is it against the law, the Supreme Court clarified back in April that single-sex provision must be based on biological sex alone, not anything else, but it is irresponsible and dangerous. Women prisoners deserve better than this. They should feel and be safe.
I now want to get into a bit more detail about E Wing within HMP Downview. Ministers have said many times in response to written questions that E Wing is not part of the general women’s estate, which is an odd statement for them to make. E Wing is a wing within HMP Downview, and HMP Downview is a women’s prison, ergo E Wing is part of the women’s prison estate. I have visited it and seen it with my own eyes.
Why might Ministers be at pains to say that it is not part of the general women’s estate? I believe they are using a play on words to obscure the fact that the single-sex provisions of the Equality Act are being breached. The current policy for managing transgender prisoners, introduced by the former right hon. Member for Esher and Walton when he was Justice Secretary, prohibits male prisoners who retain their birth genitalia or have any history of sexual or violent offences from being held in the general women’s estate, unless an exemption is granted by a Minister. So this ministerial characterisation that E wing is not part of the general women’s estate appears to be a tenuous effort to argue that they have complied with the policy and the Equality Act after all.
E Wing is physically located within a women’s prison. It is subject to the same policies and procedures as the rest of HMP Downview. It has the same Governor. Its funding comes out of the same pots. Its inmates are supported by the same health services. It beggars belief that Ministers think that we will believe that this wing is not part of the women’s estate.
Putting to one side this blatant breach of the Equality Act for now, let us consider whether the males held in E Wing are truly segregated from the rest of the female prison population. Again, Ministers keep saying that they are, but E Wing is like any other wing.
Emily Darlington (Milton Keynes Central) (Lab)
On that point, will the hon. Member give way?
Rebecca Paul
I will not. E wing has sleeping quarters and bathrooms, along with some living room space. Everything else that these prisoners need, like work, education and health services, are only available in the main estate. They therefore spend their days mixing with the women. So what supervision arrangements are in place to protect the women from these dangerous males?
Rachel Taylor (North Warwickshire and Bedworth) (Lab)
Will the hon. Lady give way?
Rebecca Paul
I will not.
In September, the independent monitoring board published its report on HMP Downview and shed some light on this matter. The report makes it clear that there had previously been
“a requirement for constant sight and sound supervision of E wing prisoners by a dedicated prison officer on a 1:1 basis whilst in activities…alongside prisoners in the general population.”
However, the report notes that that was changed earlier in the reporting period. It says:
“The previous 1:1 supervision arrangement was replaced”
by staff having
“general oversight of the E wing residents off the wing, as they do for all other prisoners”—
in other words, nothing additional.
To be completely clear, we have violent males housed in a women’s prison, which in itself is against the law. These males are not segregated from the women in the daytime; they use all the same services and communal spaces. These violent males are not supervised any differently from the female prisoners, with the previous one-on-one supervision by a dedicated prison officer being stopped. That is gross negligence and shows a complete disregard for the safety and wellbeing of female prisoners at HMP Downview.
What have been the responses of Ministers to the supervision issue raised in the report? Are they horrified? Have they committed to look into this issue? No, of course not. What they did do was remove the chair of the independent monitoring board the day after publication of the report highlighting the safeguarding failure.
Before I bring my speech to a close, let me comment on assertions that these males have not caused any issues for female prisoners. In reality, I really do not know if that is the case, because my question about how many of the prisoner-on-prisoner assaults at HMP Downview were committed by males has not elicited a response. Ministers simply say that the information could be obtained only at disproportionate cost. Why is that information not being provided? A failure to respond to that straightforward question does not fill me with confidence.
I would be grateful if the Minister could answer the following questions. When are the biological males being moved out of HMP Downview and all other women’s prisons, in accordance with the Equality Act? What immediate action is being taken about the inadequate supervision of these males in HMP Downview and any other women’s prison where it is relevant? How comfortable is the Minister with the removal of the chair of the independent monitoring board the day after the publication of the IMB’s September 2025 report highlighting the changes to supervision of E Wing inmates? How many assaults of female prisoners and prison officers by biological males in the women’s prison estate have taken place since the inclusion of males in women’s prisons? What percentage of total assaults do they make up?
I thank all Members for their participation in the debate this evening. Those who notified me in advance that they would like to make an intervention were granted said intervention—courtesy needs to be paid to these things. I also thank the Minister for listening to what I know is probably a difficult speech to listen to. I hope the issue at hand is now clear.
I urge the Minister finally to grasp the nettle on this shocking scandal and ensure that women’s prisons become single sex once again. We managed to get this right more than 200 years ago. Please restore our faith that this country is not going backwards on basic safeguards and rights for women.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Alex Davies-Jones)
I congratulate the hon. Member for Reigate (Rebecca Paul) on securing this debate. This is an important issue that inspires much emotion from both sides of the debate, and it is vital that we handle it sensitively and with care.
Women make up only a very small proportion of those in custody, yet, as the hon. Member said, they often have some more complex needs than men. Some 68% of women in custody have reported experience of domestic abuse, and more than half have suffered abuse as a child.
As the Minister responsible for tackling violence against women and girls, I am very aware of these issues. It is for those reasons that I was delighted that the Government created the Women’s Justice Board, which will help to reduce the number of women in prison. That is also why I was proud that the Labour manifesto committed to continuing the support for single-sex exemptions available in the Equality Act.
Rachel Taylor
May I ask the Minister whether the violence experienced by women, in prison or not, is generally committed by cis men, not by transgender women? Does she agree that this is simply a way of fuelling culture wars and is not helpful in protecting women or any LGBT people, who are experiencing an increase in violent hate crime?
Alex Davies-Jones
I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention—it is important to put on record the nuance in this area. It is also important to recognise that levels of violence in prison are untenable and need addressing, whoever is committing that violence. The level of violence in the male estate is incredibly high and needs addressing, and my priority as the Minister for victims and for tackling violence against women and girls is getting on top of all this, because anyone who feels unsafe in prison needs our support. That is exactly what we are trying to ensure.
Sarah Owen (Luton North) (Lab)
I listened to the speech made by the hon. Member for Reigate (Rebecca Paul). Tackling violence against women in women’s prisons is on all of us, but a huge part of this debate is missing, which is the self-harm that women are inflicting on themselves. Some 20,000 incidents of self-harm have taken place in women’s prisons alone. How much of that is attributable to overcrowding in prisons, past experience of trauma and abuse, and a lack of training and resources for prison staff? If we are trying to tackle violence against women and girls, should our biggest priority not be the incidents that we see higher numbers of?
Alex Davies-Jones
My hon. Friend, the Chair of the Women and Equalities Committee, is absolutely right. That is why, as I have outlined, this Government are committed to the work of the Women’s Justice Board, which is looking at how we can get women who should not necessarily be in prison out of prison, particularly mothers. That is not the right place for them. That is exactly what the Women’s Justice Board—led by my hon. Friend in the other place, the Minister for Prisons—is working on with the Lord Chancellor.
However, this evening’s debate is complex because, as we have heard, transgender women can have similar vulnerabilities. That does not necessarily mean that they need to be granted access to the space for biological women, but these matters require thought and tact if they are to be resolved in a fair and balanced way. His Majesty’s Prison and Probation Service’s approach to allocating transgender women to prison has been through several iterations over the past decade. It balances the risk that transgender prisoners may pose to others if placed in a prison that aligns with their gender identity with the risk posed to and by them if they are placed in a prison that aligns with their biological sex.
Emily Darlington
Does the Minister think it is really important to understand the context? We have just talked about how many women are in prison because of the abuse that they have suffered, but many trans women are also put in those vulnerable positions, and they are even more likely than cis women to be victims of crime. Does the Minister agree that it would be useful for us to use the facts? Could she explain exactly what the position is at HMP Downview? Having some clarity on that, rather than just reiterating rumours that are being written about in newspapers, is probably a better way to deal with quite a sensitive issue, given that people can be both perpetrators of crime and victims of it.
Alex Davies-Jones
My hon. Friend is right, and I hope to put on record some clarity and facts this evening, rather than just fuelling misinformation.
The current policy, which was brought in by the previous Government, is that no transgender woman charged with, or convicted of, either a sexual or a violent offence or who retains birth genitalia can be held in the general women’s estate, unless an exception is granted by a Minister. I would like to state this evening that no such exemptions have been granted under this Government.
Rebecca Paul
On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I have just been accused of misinformation, and I want to make the point that the information and data I cited was obtained through written parliamentary questions. I can provide that data, so it is not misinformation; it is information that has come from the Ministry of Justice.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)
Minister, you may want to clarify that remark.
Alex Davies-Jones
I will happily clarify it. I was not accusing the hon. Lady of misinformation; I was saying that there is a lot of misinformation out there regarding this issue, and that it is important that I put on record the facts of the case, which is what I am doing.
I want to reassert my last point: no exemptions have been granted under this Government. Exemptions that allow transgender women to be housed in the general women’s estate are recommended only when there is a compelling reason, such as a suicide or self-harm risk, or a risk to the prisoner from others, and where a specially trained multidisciplinary panel has carried out a comprehensive risk assessment that concludes that it has a high level of confidence that the prisoner poses a low risk to other prisoners. Again, though, no such exemption has been granted under this Government.
Rebecca Paul
The Minister mentions risk assessments. The independent monitoring board report seems to suggest that no such risk assessments have been provided. Can she put on the record that those risk assessments for every single biological male in HMP Downview are on file somewhere, and that she is comfortable that they exist?
Alex Davies-Jones
I will ensure that the Minister responsible writes to the hon. Lady to inform her of that. In terms of managing the risk posed to biological women, these policies have been a success. There have been zero assaults and zero sexual assaults committed by transgender women in the women’s estate since 2019. To answer her point, there have been zero assaults.
Tracy Gilbert (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab)
I congratulate the hon. Member for Reigate (Rebecca Paul) on securing this important debate. The Minister may be aware that Scottish Ministers are waiting to see the Equality and Human Rights Commission guidance, following the Supreme Court ruling. Does she believe that it is tenable for Scottish Ministers to not implement the law as it is written, while waiting on the guidance, and can she give any advice on when it will be published?
Alex Davies-Jones
It would not be appropriate for me to comment on the devolved competencies of another legislature—this is something for the Scottish Government to determine—but I can outline what will be doing as the Government responsible for England and Wales. More than 95% of transgender women are held in men’s prisons. Of the small number held in women’s prisons, the significant majority are held on E wing at HMP Downview, a women’s prison in the constituency of the hon. Member for Reigate. It is a stand-alone 16-bed unit, where the prisoners are accommodated completely separately from biological women, in a discrete building behind a gated fence.
Like the hon. Member, I have visited HMP Downview and E wing. I have spoken to the prisoners and the staff there. E wing was introduced by the previous Government in 2019. The reason it was created, and the function that it serves, links directly to the vulnerabilities of many transgender women. Those held in men’s prisons are disproportionately likely to self-harm, as we have already heard, and they face bullying and harassment. They are also disproportionately likely to be victims of sexual assault. Between 2016 and 2021, transgender women were victims in 3.4% of all sexual assaults reported in men’s prisons, despite never making up more than 0.3% of the population there.
Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)
I know the Minister is a reasonable person, and I am trying to find some common ground here. I could understand it, if the transgender males held in this particular unit had at least undergone reassignment surgery. They would definitely be vulnerable in a male prison. The argument for them to be held in a truly separate unit is strong. It seems from what we heard from my hon. Friend that the people who are causing concern are those who are biologically intact. In other words, they are any male who chooses to identify as a female.
Alex Davies-Jones
I welcome the intervention by the right hon. Gentleman. He always tries to be helpful in debates, and I welcome that. Some of the prisoners held on E wing at HMP Downview have had full gender reassignment surgery. Some have not. However, full risk assessments are carried out before anyone is placed at HMP Downview. As I have stated, no prisoner has been placed there under this Government, and no exemptions have been made under this Government.
The allocation criteria rightly set a high bar for transgender women to be held in the general women’s estate. However, failing to meet that high bar does not mean that a transgender prisoner can necessarily be managed safely in a men’s prison. For those who are particularly vulnerable, such as those who have undergone full gender affirming surgery, E wing can, where appropriate, provide an important option.
David Smith (North Northumberland) (Lab)
The Minister may or may not be aware that prior to coming to this place, I ran a homelessness and support charity for the general population, including young women. It was always possible in that context, even as a charity, to find support and housing for transgender women, as well as to incorporate sex-segregated spaces for women, who had often gone through difficult experiences at the hands of biological males. Does she agree that it should always be possible, however it is done, to create provision in the prison estate for transgender women and for sex-segregated spaces?
Alex Davies-Jones
I totally agree with that, and I thank my hon. Friend for his work, both inside and outside this House, to help women in incredibly vulnerable positions. He is correct, and we feel that HMP Downview, with the separate E wing, which is on the estate but not part of the general women’s estate, is the solution. It does work and it is working, as is shown in the data.
There has been no change in the requirement that E wing prisoners must remain under constant supervision at all times, but there has been a change in relation to who provides the supervision. Following that change, a dedicated prison officer now escorts E wing prisoners on and off the wing, and if the risk assessment deems it appropriate, the member of staff running the activities in which they participate must supervise them for the length of the activity. The prison implemented the change on the basis of a stringent local assessment of the risks to prisoners, and no risk concerns have been raised about the regime access of any E wing prisoners since the supervision policy changed. The prison will keep the arrangement under strict review, and we will make an operational decision to revoke that access if it is deemed necessary.
Kirsteen Sullivan (Bathgate and Linlithgow) (Lab/Co-op)
Will my hon. Friend give way?
Alex Davies-Jones
I will, but only briefly, because I am conscious of the time.
Kirsteen Sullivan
I thank my hon. Friend, and I thank the hon. Member for Reigate (Rebecca Paul) for securing the debate. At the beginning of her speech, my hon. Friend said that there were many vulnerable women in prisons, that over half of them had experienced domestic violence, and that many had experienced emotional, physical or sexual abuse. That being the case, does she appreciate that having anyone other than biological females on the female estate risks re-traumatising already vulnerable women?
Alex Davies-Jones
My priority is ensuring the safety of all prisoners on our estate. That requires a strict regime and a strict policy. I have met far too many female prisoners who—as my hon. Friend has rightly mentioned—are victims of crime themselves, who have been through the most horrific circumstances, and who have ended up in prison when they should not have been there. They should be in women’s centres, or work should be done in the community to prevent them from reoffending. Prison is not the right place for the vast majority of women, which is why the work of the Women’s Justice Board is so crucial.
I welcome the interest in this issue expressed by all the Members who have spoken, and recognise the importance of ensuring that prisons are operating safely and effectively. We will continue to keep the policy under review to ensure that it continues to be effective. As the Hon. Member for Reigate would expect, we are reviewing all aspects of transgender prisoner policy, following the For Women Scotland Supreme Court ruling handed down earlier this year. We need to ensure that our approach remains lawful, effective and fair. The ruling confirmed that references to “sex” in the Equality Act 2010 relate to biological sex, while making it clear that protections for transgender people remain. That landmark judgment brought much-needed clarity, but the hon. Member will understand that it is imperative for everyone that we get this right.
Following the Supreme Court ruling, the Equality and Human Rights Commission has submitted its draft updated code on single-sex spaces to the Government for approval.
The Government are considering the draft updated code closely, and if a decision is made to approve it, the Minister for Women and Equalities will lay it before Parliament. While I recognise the frustration and the desire to expedite this process, we must bring clarity to service providers. The proposed code of practice is more than 300 pages long, and it is important that the correct process is followed. The hon. Member will appreciate that getting decisions wrong could carry potentially grave consequences, endangering either the safety of biological women or that of transgender women. The Ministry of Justice is working closely with the Office for Equality and Opportunity to understand the implications of the Supreme Court ruling, and we look forward to saying more in due course.
I thank all Members for taking part in the debate, but I particularly thank the hon. Member for Reigate. This is an important subject, and while I realise how emotive it can be, I hope that my setting out the facts and assuring Members of the policy directions that exist—along with the fact that there have been zero sexual or other assaults on any female prisoner by a transgender prisoner since 2019—has made clear the balance that we seek to strike in the way in which we allocate transgender prisoners, and has also helped to add some balance to this debate. I can assure the hon. Member for Reigate that as we continue our review of transgender prisoner policies, our approach will always be to seek to ensure the safety of all prisoners, and that I seek to work with her and anyone else with an interest in this important topic. The Government will provide an update once the review has ended.
Question put and agreed to.