18:59 - The House divided: - Ayes: 88 / Noes: 266 - Question accordingly negatived.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Andrew Western)
Let me begin by stating the obvious: the issues with plan 2 loans are a legacy of the previous Government. Plan 2 borrowers in England are undergraduate students who began their courses between 2012 and 2023. The loans were designed, implemented and operated by the previous coalition and Conservative Governments. When we were elected, we immediately recognised the pressure. We uplifted the plan 2 repayment threshold in 2025 to £28,470 and will increase it again to £29,385 next month, ensuring that it is higher than average graduate salaries three years after a course has finished. Before we came into Government, for most of the time that plan 2 loans have existed, the repayment threshold has been frozen—for 10 years during the Tory Government.
This is a system that we would never have designed. We have heard plenty today about its flaws, the worry it causes and the pressure on graduates. We have had, as we often do on Opposition days, a spirited debate. I will begin my comments on some of the contributions that we have heard by thanking my hon. Friends the Members for Reading Central (Matt Rodda), for Erewash (Adam Thompson), for Stevenage (Kevin Bonavia), for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Danny Beales), for Bury St Edmunds and Stowmarket (Peter Prinsley), and in particular my hon. Friend the Member for Gloucester (Alex McIntyre) for an especially powerful contribution.
I single out my hon. Friend the Member for Kettering (Rosie Wrighting), who continues to be a champion in this place for young people not only in her constituency but up and down this country. When I came to this place, my maiden speech was about generational inequality. Based on her description, I think that I have timed out in my ability to call myself a young person, so I am delighted that we have my hon. Friend here holding that torch and continuing to fight and to make the case for young people.
Turning to the shadow Secretary of State, the right hon. Member for Sevenoaks (Laura Trott), we have had some serious chutzpah from the Tories today, opening with the fact that this Labour Government have increased fees—fees increased for sustainability purposes but certainly not trebled, as the Conservative party did. She spoke of the threshold freeze being unfair. April’s increase is our second in two years—as many as they managed in 12 years post introducing the plan 2 scheme.
The shadow Secretary of State labelled the motion a new deal for young people, but why on earth is a new deal required? It is because the Conservatives trebled fees, scrapped maintenance grants, oversaw a 40% cut to youth apprenticeships, and drove the number of NEETs up by a quarter of a million in their last three years in government. By contrast, under this Government, young people are getting a new deal, with a new target of two thirds of young people in an apprenticeship or at university, our youth guarantee and our jobs guarantee, because we understand that young people need support to thrive, especially after 14 years of the Conservative party.
We then heard about the range of options that the Conservatives want to secure for young people, that it is a Conservative choice to be able to earn and learn through apprenticeships or to go to university, but that was not the choice that young people had. They hammered apprenticeships for young people, and that is one of the reasons why we face the challenges in the system that we do today.
We heard from the Liberal Democrat spokesperson, the hon. Member for St Neots and Mid Cambridgeshire (Ian Sollom), in what I thought was a very considered contribution. I always think that it is incredibly brave for a Liberal Democrat to speak in any debate about fees, loans and so on.
Andrew Western
I will not because I am short on time—I am sorry.
While I do think that a Liberal Democrat should be wary, the hon. Member for St Neots and Mid Cambridgeshire made an important point in his defence of degree courses with which I agree.
The hon. Members for North Dorset (Simon Hoare) and for Hinckley and Bosworth (Dr Evans) attacked the Government for acknowledging the problems of the system and for saying that we recognise that work is needed, there is much to do, but we will look at it. When we say there is much to do, there are messes left all over the place. What exactly are we talking about? We are talking about a legacy of starved further education funding. The Conservatives oversaw a 40% drop in youth apprenticeships. They drove up child poverty, ravaged Sure Start, scrapped Building Schools for the Future, broke the SEND system—and that is just their legacy for children and young people, before I even get to the fact that they left the NHS on its knees. Their damage, the mess they left, has a long tail, and we must never forget that that damage cannot be fixed overnight.
Dr Luke Evans
Given that the Minister has just listed a great big set of problems facing students, what does he say to students when the Chancellor has said that they are not at the front of the queue?
Andrew Western
What I say is that students, like everybody else, benefit from an improved NHS and from a range of interventions that this Government are making, but we cannot change everything overnight.
The hon. Member for Bromley and Biggin Hill (Peter Fortune) commented that young people not in employment has rocketed under this Government, which is an interesting take given that the number of NEETs is 14,000 lower now than it was at this point last year, but it increased by 250,000 in the Conservatives’ final few years in office.
We then heard from the hon. Member for Solihull West and Shirley (Dr Shastri-Hurst). I simply reiterate the comments made in the intervention from my hon. Friend the Member for York Outer (Mr Charters) about the rubbishing of the Conservatives’ proposal already done by the Institute for Fiscal Studies.
The hon. Member for Isle of Wight East (Joe Robertson) mentioned youth unemployment figures, and I absolutely agree that these are a concern. We are not complacent on this issue, so he will welcome the youth guarantee, the jobs guarantee, the increase to apprenticeship funding, the shift to more apprenticeships for young people, the revised target of two thirds of young people either in an apprenticeship or at university, and the update to our approach to encourage technical learning while earning. He will also be pleased to know that, unlike him, I do have a history degree, so I have no problem looking at the Conservatives’ record of the past 10 years. I absolutely appreciate that they do not want to be held to account for the mess they left, but sadly they devastated this system, and it falls to us to resolve the problems they left.
We then heard from the hon. Member for Runnymede and Weybridge (Dr Spencer), who said that all forms of education have intrinsic value, which leaves me somewhat confused given the Conservatives have made a compelling argument today for scrapping a number of degree courses and they ran down the number of apprenticeships available to young people.
I want to briefly come to the contribution of the right hon. Member for East Hampshire (Damian Hinds), because he is always considered in this area and, indeed, I consider him an expert on this subject. I cannot pretend to be familiar with the Brown and Cable plans, but it is important to pick up a point he made around the vast majority of apprenticeships being taken by people over 25. I believe that that is a problem in the system. That is why we are creating foundation apprenticeships and that is why—[Interruption.] I am not suggesting—[Interruption.]
Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)
Order. I want to hear what the Minister has to say.
Andrew Western
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I did not attribute a time period to the hon. Gentleman’s comments. I am simply stating that it is a fixed intention of this Government to seek to address that and to ensure that more young people under the age of 25 can access apprenticeships.
Yet again in these Opposition day debates, we see a Conservative party that continues to run away from its record and that brings forward overnight solutions that, in this case, have already been discredited. It is not fit to govern and would never solve this problem for young people.
Question put (Standing Order No. 31(2)), That the original words stand part of the Question.