Commons Chamber
Friday 7th March 2025
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11:15
Rt Hon Damian Hinds MP (East Hampshire, Conservative)
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Rt Hon Damian Hinds MP (East Hampshire, Conservative)
Broadly speaking they are grouped into three categories. The first is about content, from pornography and violence to the insidious acts of creative lives and on their children, on their sense of self- worth and body image and so on. Through to dodgy news and views propagated across the internet by engagement and likes. And all of these things with vortexes that children can get sucked deeper and deeper into. The second is about contact. Contact in the worst cases for child abuse and child sexual abuse, through to, at the lower level, contact with other children.
And what we call in the south cyber-bullying. No child ever uses that phrase they just talk about people being mean to each other online. And the third thing is about time. The sheer amount of time that gets sucked out of the children into these activities. It is the compounding factor because it is the thing that makes the other two things, contacts and contacts worse, and it also has an effect on children's sleep, and their concentration, even on their physical development.
And it crowds out the other things that we want children to be doing. And children themselves want to be doing for the if you ever get a child away from their phone for a full weekend, they talk about how wonderful the experience that was with their friends. The Online Safety Act did some very good things on content and on contact. There is more to do but it made some good progress. But we have a lot more to do in particular on the topic of time and the addictiveness of social media.
That is where I think the work of the honourable gentlemen has been credible valuable. I commend the honourable member from Whitehaven and Workington all the work he has done in the lead up to this point. In his use of a convening power to bring together so many individuals and organisations. Those conversations, some of which I had the opportunity to attend, covered a huge range. The bill we have in front of us today is, let us call it, somewhat thinner than that bill
**** Possible New Speaker ****
that was envisaged. I also attended the event that
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I also attended the event that the honourable gentleman brought together, and the strong characteristic that came out of all characteristic that came out of all of them was deep and profound anger amongst parents about what has been
**** Possible New Speaker ****
allowed to develop. I think that is right. The other
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I think that is right. The other thing I was very struck by, was the thing I was very struck by, was the great unity of use, whether you are talking to trade unions or charities, as well as parents. A common view of what needed to be done. I understand what needs to be done. And the need to make progress, the need for government support. So I say to the Frontbench, this is a huge missed opportunity. Look behind him, look at all his colleagues who have rearranged their Fridays, rearranged their surgeries and all their appointments because they believe in this subject.
Listen to the list that his honourable Friend read out of all those organisations that came together in support of action in this area. It is so worth doing. And we have been making progress with the Online Safety Act but there is further to go. Things you can do with a Private Members' Bill but it is harder to do with government legislation because of that party political controversies that come in. This is a missed opportunity because this may well be the only Private Members' Bill with a good chance of success that happens during this entire Parliament.
The Bill as drafted is unlikely to require this house to divide because there is not much in it that anyone could disagree on. So I will focus my comments on the themes that may be covered within those things that the bill envisages, in other word the CMO advice for parents on the use of smart phones and social media and the plan for research that the Secretary of State has on the use of social media for children. And the effectiveness of the so-called digital age of consent.
In bringing together that evident in doing that research, I will say one simple thing to the Minister. The evidence is not perfect today, it will not be perfect in one year, it will never ever be perfect. If we hang around waiting for perfect evidence, we will never act in the way that we should. Why is it not perfect? Because this is a phenomenon that has happened literally across the entire world at the same time. There is no control group. The study is that there are, given this is such a huge topic, studies that there are in trying to narrow down to something manageable tend to end up looking at Facebook or Twitter, neither of which is particularly relevant for teenagers.
When we have proxy studies, they are generally inadequate. We talk about phone use in schools, studies tend to look at a school that does have a phone ban this is one that does not. It's the totally invalid scientific comparison because they can be lots of other things going on in the sort of school that is likely to do well in GCSEs is also likely to be the sort of school that brings a phone ban rather than being able to prove the direction of causality.
And people say there has not been enough time because this is the technology that constantly develops, maybe around 20 years. But this version has only been around for 18 months. There has not been time to conclusively say what the effects are. All of that is not about to change. The evidence will continue to be imperfect. The evidence that we do have I think is pretty clear. We know that some screen time, but there can be some benefit for relatively small amount of screen time.
An organisation covered this in some detail looking at other countries talking about the Goldilocks effect where one hour of screen time of day seems to be correlated with increased levels of well-being. The same study found that with high levels of well-being, in almost every country studied, with the fascinating exception of the Dominican Republic, but in almost all countries studied, high levels of internet usage was associated with lower levels of life satisfaction. There are lots of other studies as well, colleagues have referred to them and look at happiness.
Concentration, sleep, and of course there is the rising prevalence of mental ill health in young people. Quite often when people look at the numbers on mental health particularly in teenagers, people reached immediately for their preferred explanation for why teenagers are having these difficulties. It sometimes gets quite political. This rise in teenage mental health is not uniquely a British phenomenon. In fact in the UNICEF study of 2021 called "Changing childhood " on the two main measures they took on mental well-being which is, how often you experience feeling anxious, and how often you experience feeling depressed or having little interest in doing things, this country was broadly in line with the average of 21 countries including France, Germany, the US.
And slightly better on most of the measures. And there were ample other studies from around the world. The health behaviours of school age children from the WHO. In school age children from the WHO. In France, the study which is quite a long time series, is a shorter time series in the United States. But here the best study of all the mental health of children and young people in England, and a nature study. And I don't think we have yet had a commitment from the DHS to carry on with that timeseries was the it is incredibly valuable and that will be relatively simple thing the government could do.
The important point, I've said already do not uniquely British phenomenon, it is also not only about COVID. Lots of these studies in recent years have set out to answer the question, what happens to children's mental health during COVID? It is a perfectly legitimate question. You look at the shape of the curve it is very unlikely that it started in COVID. In the NHS study, it carries on growing long after COVID up until the most recent wave. It is, and I'm sure the Minister will agree, he said this the other day, that is entirely invalid to infer causality from correlation.
The Bradford Hill criteria that his honourable Friend mentioned is particularly relevant, to clearly among those, the criteria of consistency, strength, plausibility, and analogy as well as temporality. In any event it seems odd that we allow something to happen to our children because we cannot 100% prove it causes harm rather than because we can prove that it is safe. That is not the way we deal with children's toys, it is not the way we deal with children's food, it is not the way we deal with children's medicine.
And I would turn the question around and say to people who query the direction of causality, with something like self-harm, are you honestly trying to tell me that the incidents of self-harm in our country is nothing to do with the prevalence, the normalisation, of imagery around self-harm and social media. And as I say, I worry that if we continue to seek perfect information we simply will not act as we should. I have pages more to say. I'm not to set as I know there are many colleagues who wish to speak.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Can I begin by thanking my friend who I have now started calling the who I have now started calling the patron Saint of that smart phone free charter campaign. He often free charter campaign. He often comes up when speaking to parents as well. This topic has prompted a huge well. This topic has prompted a huge response both in my own constituency, I know across the country as well. I would like to country as well. I would like to welcome Elizabeth, Sarah, and other constituents who are here today to watch this debate.
I would also like watch this debate. I would also like to pay tribute to Crispin, Raj, and the $480 billion parents I've been working with on this. I want to give some time to this debate to explore the wealth of feedback I've had from my constituents before talking about the title change we need to see across this country and the change that needs to be cultural and need
And what we call in the south cyber-bullying. No child ever uses that phrase they just talk about people being mean to each other online. And the third thing is about time. The sheer amount of time that gets sucked out of the children into these activities. It is the compounding factor because it is the thing that makes the other two things, contacts and contacts worse, and it also has an effect on children's sleep, and their concentration, even on their physical development.
And it crowds out the other things that we want children to be doing. And children themselves want to be doing for the if you ever get a child away from their phone for a full weekend, they talk about how wonderful the experience that was with their friends. The Online Safety Act did some very good things on content and on contact. There is more to do but it made some good progress. But we have a lot more to do in particular on the topic of time and the addictiveness of social media.
That is where I think the work of the honourable gentlemen has been credible valuable. I commend the honourable member from Whitehaven and Workington all the work he has done in the lead up to this point. In his use of a convening power to bring together so many individuals and organisations. Those conversations, some of which I had the opportunity to attend, covered a huge range. The bill we have in front of us today is, let us call it, somewhat thinner than that bill
**** Possible New Speaker ****
that was envisaged. I also attended the event that
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I also attended the event that the honourable gentleman brought together, and the strong characteristic that came out of all characteristic that came out of all of them was deep and profound anger amongst parents about what has been
**** Possible New Speaker ****
allowed to develop. I think that is right. The other
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I think that is right. The other thing I was very struck by, was the thing I was very struck by, was the great unity of use, whether you are talking to trade unions or charities, as well as parents. A common view of what needed to be done. I understand what needs to be done. And the need to make progress, the need for government support. So I say to the Frontbench, this is a huge missed opportunity. Look behind him, look at all his colleagues who have rearranged their Fridays, rearranged their surgeries and all their appointments because they believe in this subject.
Listen to the list that his honourable Friend read out of all those organisations that came together in support of action in this area. It is so worth doing. And we have been making progress with the Online Safety Act but there is further to go. Things you can do with a Private Members' Bill but it is harder to do with government legislation because of that party political controversies that come in. This is a missed opportunity because this may well be the only Private Members' Bill with a good chance of success that happens during this entire Parliament.
The Bill as drafted is unlikely to require this house to divide because there is not much in it that anyone could disagree on. So I will focus my comments on the themes that may be covered within those things that the bill envisages, in other word the CMO advice for parents on the use of smart phones and social media and the plan for research that the Secretary of State has on the use of social media for children. And the effectiveness of the so-called digital age of consent.
In bringing together that evident in doing that research, I will say one simple thing to the Minister. The evidence is not perfect today, it will not be perfect in one year, it will never ever be perfect. If we hang around waiting for perfect evidence, we will never act in the way that we should. Why is it not perfect? Because this is a phenomenon that has happened literally across the entire world at the same time. There is no control group. The study is that there are, given this is such a huge topic, studies that there are in trying to narrow down to something manageable tend to end up looking at Facebook or Twitter, neither of which is particularly relevant for teenagers.
When we have proxy studies, they are generally inadequate. We talk about phone use in schools, studies tend to look at a school that does have a phone ban this is one that does not. It's the totally invalid scientific comparison because they can be lots of other things going on in the sort of school that is likely to do well in GCSEs is also likely to be the sort of school that brings a phone ban rather than being able to prove the direction of causality.
And people say there has not been enough time because this is the technology that constantly develops, maybe around 20 years. But this version has only been around for 18 months. There has not been time to conclusively say what the effects are. All of that is not about to change. The evidence will continue to be imperfect. The evidence that we do have I think is pretty clear. We know that some screen time, but there can be some benefit for relatively small amount of screen time.
An organisation covered this in some detail looking at other countries talking about the Goldilocks effect where one hour of screen time of day seems to be correlated with increased levels of well-being. The same study found that with high levels of well-being, in almost every country studied, with the fascinating exception of the Dominican Republic, but in almost all countries studied, high levels of internet usage was associated with lower levels of life satisfaction. There are lots of other studies as well, colleagues have referred to them and look at happiness.
Concentration, sleep, and of course there is the rising prevalence of mental ill health in young people. Quite often when people look at the numbers on mental health particularly in teenagers, people reached immediately for their preferred explanation for why teenagers are having these difficulties. It sometimes gets quite political. This rise in teenage mental health is not uniquely a British phenomenon. In fact in the UNICEF study of 2021 called "Changing childhood " on the two main measures they took on mental well-being which is, how often you experience feeling anxious, and how often you experience feeling depressed or having little interest in doing things, this country was broadly in line with the average of 21 countries including France, Germany, the US.
And slightly better on most of the measures. And there were ample other studies from around the world. The health behaviours of school age children from the WHO. In school age children from the WHO. In France, the study which is quite a long time series, is a shorter time series in the United States. But here the best study of all the mental health of children and young people in England, and a nature study. And I don't think we have yet had a commitment from the DHS to carry on with that timeseries was the it is incredibly valuable and that will be relatively simple thing the government could do.
The important point, I've said already do not uniquely British phenomenon, it is also not only about COVID. Lots of these studies in recent years have set out to answer the question, what happens to children's mental health during COVID? It is a perfectly legitimate question. You look at the shape of the curve it is very unlikely that it started in COVID. In the NHS study, it carries on growing long after COVID up until the most recent wave. It is, and I'm sure the Minister will agree, he said this the other day, that is entirely invalid to infer causality from correlation.
The Bradford Hill criteria that his honourable Friend mentioned is particularly relevant, to clearly among those, the criteria of consistency, strength, plausibility, and analogy as well as temporality. In any event it seems odd that we allow something to happen to our children because we cannot 100% prove it causes harm rather than because we can prove that it is safe. That is not the way we deal with children's toys, it is not the way we deal with children's food, it is not the way we deal with children's medicine.
And I would turn the question around and say to people who query the direction of causality, with something like self-harm, are you honestly trying to tell me that the incidents of self-harm in our country is nothing to do with the prevalence, the normalisation, of imagery around self-harm and social media. And as I say, I worry that if we continue to seek perfect information we simply will not act as we should. I have pages more to say. I'm not to set as I know there are many colleagues who wish to speak.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Can I begin by thanking my friend who I have now started calling the who I have now started calling the patron Saint of that smart phone free charter campaign. He often free charter campaign. He often comes up when speaking to parents as well. This topic has prompted a huge well. This topic has prompted a huge response both in my own constituency, I know across the country as well. I would like to country as well. I would like to welcome Elizabeth, Sarah, and other constituents who are here today to watch this debate.
I would also like watch this debate. I would also like to pay tribute to Crispin, Raj, and the $480 billion parents I've been working with on this. I want to give some time to this debate to explore the wealth of feedback I've had from my constituents before talking about the title change we need to see across this country and the change that needs to be cultural and need
11:27
Liam Conlon MP (Beckenham and Penge, Labour)
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Liam Conlon MP (Beckenham and Penge, Labour)
to put children and parents first and place the emphasis on social media companies and manufacturers to prove their products are safe. prove their products are safe. Whilst ensuring we don't miss out on the many benefits of technology. Ahead of today's debate I have Ahead of today's debate I have engaged extensively with three key groups in Beckenham and Penge. Young people, parents, and school leavers. people, parents, and school leavers. The first, young people, despite being the reason we are here today being the reason we are here today other group we most risk excluding from this conversation.
That is why I held a focus group at a local I held a focus group at a local secondary school and spoke to students from a range of year groups about their views on how smart phones are changing childhood. As this focus group, half of the students said that smart phones and social media overall have a negative impact on their mental health. The majority of students told me they would for panic without their mobile phone. In some spoke to me with quiet self-awareness about how they knew their mobile phone had acted as a barrier to interaction with their family.
This is all time are not spending building meaningful relationships through face-to-face conversation, and developing the social and communication skills they will need a lie. The second group offered another perspective. On Monday this week, I was delighted to bring together a group of 12 primary and secondary School Head Teachers from right across my constituency. We discussed the impact of their students smart phone use in and out of schools. What stood out the most was the sheer amount of time that they as school leaders have to spend week after week dealing with issues that have taken place on their students phones.
Silent bullying, sexting, the sharing of explicit photos, often of the students themselves. All of this and more is crossing our teachers desks and demanding hours of their time every day pulling them away from their core crucial job of educating. And finally, parents. In Beckenham and Penge, concerns around smart phone and social media use easily falls into the top five issues that constituents have contacted me about since my election to this house last July. Last Friday I put out a survey asking parents in my constituency for their views.
Within a week I have had well over 500 responses. 89% of respondents agree that smart phones and social media either have a negative impact on the children's mental health. What makes this figure more shocking is that 70% of those who agreed with this statement are parents of primary age children. That is children under the age of 12. And more than three quarters of parents agreed that the negatives of their child having a smartphone I asked parents if they would have concerns with their child not to have a smartphone.
The ability for them to call home in an emergency or the ability to track them on their journey to and from school came up. We know there are other phones on the market which addressed these features today. The damages undeniable and is reflected in statistics across the country. Since smartphones became prominent in 2012, we have seen a 27 percent increase in speech and language challenges, six to five percent rise in mental health admissions to hospital, and 640 percent increase in eating disorders.
The average teenager today gets 337 notifications in a day. The average is one every six minutes. Once they receive a notification, it takes 23 minutes for them to refocus on what they are doing. One in three parents admit to crying over their child's smartphone use. These figures chime with what parents have fed back to me across the constituency. One constituent, Gemma, who worked in the industry for 15 years, says my child is seven, so is not yet exposed to smartphones in a significant way, but when he does play games on his phone, his behaviour is different, he is hyperactive, gets emotional quickly and easily and is devastated when we say the time to players up.
Another constituent says that, a therapist, says that she regularly sees clients struggling with mental health from smartphones. How are we expecting our children and teenagers to moderate their smartphone use?
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I'm grateful for my honourable friend giving way. I'm pleased the government is committed to tackling government is committed to tackling this mental health epidemic we have this mental health epidemic we have among children in this country. In among children in this country. In particular the specialist mental health professionals that are going health professionals that are going to be explored in every school. I know parents in my constituency of know parents in my constituency of Amber Valley will welcome this.
Does the honourable member agree that the provisions in the bill will be a useful tool in preventing mental health issues in the first place, helping parents safeguard their
**** Possible New Speaker ****
children's mental health? Absolutely. A key provision of this bill provides the evidence base on which to take their best action on which to take their best action going forward. Another parent said going forward. Another parent said to me, my children are two and four, smartphones are my greatest fear in smartphones are my greatest fear in raising them. I had so many other constituents writing. I would like to thank everyone who has responded to my survey and shared their to my survey and shared their thoughts across the constituency.
The case for change is undeniable. The case for change is undeniable. To sum up, I think what we need to see is collective action and cultural change. Many contributions have been made across the House today to that effort. But children and parents first, move the owners from them and onto social media companies and manufacturers to prove their products are safe. As well as recognising potential benefits of technology. Before I came to this place, for nearly a decade I worked in tech and discovery education and saw the many benefits tech is in unlocking things for young people.
I believe the balance must be found. I would like to commend my honourable
**** Possible New Speaker ****
forward. I also wish to say thank you to the honourable member for Whitehaven the honourable member for Whitehaven and Workington for bringing this bill forward. I felt this bill was bill forward. I felt this bill was so important that I was up at 4 o'clock this morning to fly from o'clock this morning to fly from Northern Ireland to get here to Northern Ireland to get here to support the member's bill. Our most precious responsibility is safeguarding our children. The very foundation of our society.
I stand here today to express my firm support for the protection of the
That is why I held a focus group at a local I held a focus group at a local secondary school and spoke to students from a range of year groups about their views on how smart phones are changing childhood. As this focus group, half of the students said that smart phones and social media overall have a negative impact on their mental health. The majority of students told me they would for panic without their mobile phone. In some spoke to me with quiet self-awareness about how they knew their mobile phone had acted as a barrier to interaction with their family.
This is all time are not spending building meaningful relationships through face-to-face conversation, and developing the social and communication skills they will need a lie. The second group offered another perspective. On Monday this week, I was delighted to bring together a group of 12 primary and secondary School Head Teachers from right across my constituency. We discussed the impact of their students smart phone use in and out of schools. What stood out the most was the sheer amount of time that they as school leaders have to spend week after week dealing with issues that have taken place on their students phones.
Silent bullying, sexting, the sharing of explicit photos, often of the students themselves. All of this and more is crossing our teachers desks and demanding hours of their time every day pulling them away from their core crucial job of educating. And finally, parents. In Beckenham and Penge, concerns around smart phone and social media use easily falls into the top five issues that constituents have contacted me about since my election to this house last July. Last Friday I put out a survey asking parents in my constituency for their views.
Within a week I have had well over 500 responses. 89% of respondents agree that smart phones and social media either have a negative impact on the children's mental health. What makes this figure more shocking is that 70% of those who agreed with this statement are parents of primary age children. That is children under the age of 12. And more than three quarters of parents agreed that the negatives of their child having a smartphone I asked parents if they would have concerns with their child not to have a smartphone.
The ability for them to call home in an emergency or the ability to track them on their journey to and from school came up. We know there are other phones on the market which addressed these features today. The damages undeniable and is reflected in statistics across the country. Since smartphones became prominent in 2012, we have seen a 27 percent increase in speech and language challenges, six to five percent rise in mental health admissions to hospital, and 640 percent increase in eating disorders.
The average teenager today gets 337 notifications in a day. The average is one every six minutes. Once they receive a notification, it takes 23 minutes for them to refocus on what they are doing. One in three parents admit to crying over their child's smartphone use. These figures chime with what parents have fed back to me across the constituency. One constituent, Gemma, who worked in the industry for 15 years, says my child is seven, so is not yet exposed to smartphones in a significant way, but when he does play games on his phone, his behaviour is different, he is hyperactive, gets emotional quickly and easily and is devastated when we say the time to players up.
Another constituent says that, a therapist, says that she regularly sees clients struggling with mental health from smartphones. How are we expecting our children and teenagers to moderate their smartphone use?
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I'm grateful for my honourable friend giving way. I'm pleased the government is committed to tackling government is committed to tackling this mental health epidemic we have this mental health epidemic we have among children in this country. In among children in this country. In particular the specialist mental health professionals that are going health professionals that are going to be explored in every school. I know parents in my constituency of know parents in my constituency of Amber Valley will welcome this.
Does the honourable member agree that the provisions in the bill will be a useful tool in preventing mental health issues in the first place, helping parents safeguard their
**** Possible New Speaker ****
children's mental health? Absolutely. A key provision of this bill provides the evidence base on which to take their best action on which to take their best action going forward. Another parent said going forward. Another parent said to me, my children are two and four, smartphones are my greatest fear in smartphones are my greatest fear in raising them. I had so many other constituents writing. I would like to thank everyone who has responded to my survey and shared their to my survey and shared their thoughts across the constituency.
The case for change is undeniable. The case for change is undeniable. To sum up, I think what we need to see is collective action and cultural change. Many contributions have been made across the House today to that effort. But children and parents first, move the owners from them and onto social media companies and manufacturers to prove their products are safe. As well as recognising potential benefits of technology. Before I came to this place, for nearly a decade I worked in tech and discovery education and saw the many benefits tech is in unlocking things for young people.
I believe the balance must be found. I would like to commend my honourable
**** Possible New Speaker ****
forward. I also wish to say thank you to the honourable member for Whitehaven the honourable member for Whitehaven and Workington for bringing this bill forward. I felt this bill was bill forward. I felt this bill was so important that I was up at 4 o'clock this morning to fly from o'clock this morning to fly from Northern Ireland to get here to Northern Ireland to get here to support the member's bill. Our most precious responsibility is safeguarding our children. The very foundation of our society.
I stand here today to express my firm support for the protection of the
11:34
Alex Easton MP (North Down, Independent)
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Alex Easton MP (North Down, Independent)
children's digital safety and data children's digital safety and data protection bill. Protecting children in the digital age is a critical in the digital age is a critical undertaking for this Parliament. The internet presents an opportunity for growth and learning but can also be a dangerous place filled with real a dangerous place filled with real a dangerous place filled with real threats. The digital realm poses numerous risks. At a recent event I hosted in Northern Ireland in my constituency.
We explored these issues, from cyber bullying, exposure, inappropriate content and predatory behaviour. They are present dangers our children face daily. I would like a moment to thank the task lead for protecting children, including in Northern children, including in Northern The parents and advocates of a smartphone free childhood. This bill champions in approach involving government, parents and educators, working together to safeguard our youth. We face a stark reality with Ofcom reporting 21 percent of children aged five to seven use the internet in the UK.
A figure that rises dramatically to 89 percent by the age of 12. I urge everyone to seriously consider these dangers and utilise the excellent resources available, such as smartphone free childhood.co.uk. Over 200 schools in Northern Ireland, many in my constituency, are already benefiting from these efforts. We must distinguish between the positive transformations that technology brings, enhancements in learning and communication and the serious threat it poses. Parliament must ensure that technical companies are held accountable for child protection, achieving the highest standards of safety, transparency, data privacy and timely content moderation are crucial to maintain that secure online environment.
This bill supports a collaborative approach, fostering partnerships across government, industry, leaders, parents, carers and educators. Together, we can keep our children safe. Let us be proactive, developing ever evolving tools that protect our children in the digital age. We must support parental control and enhance education about the dangers of the digital world. Being forewarned is being for armed. Let us aim for a future where safe online experience is a norm for all of our children. This is one of the most significant pieces of work this parliament will undertake.
Further and future generations will thank us all for it. Let's join together in backing this bill to ensure we create a digital landscape that prioritises the safety and well- being of all of our children. While I support the bill, there is a point that has been watered down about the bill. I believe children in primary schools should not have mobiles in the school environment. It leads to them not learning social interactive skills, distractions of learning and potential online abuse and bullying.
Children get better academic results when they do not have access to phones in schools. I support the bill and I wish him all the very best. He has my support wherever
**** Possible New Speaker ****
this goes. Can I start off like others by thanking the Member for Whitehaven thanking the Member for Whitehaven and Workington for bringing this and Workington for bringing this Private Member's Bill. A couple of
We explored these issues, from cyber bullying, exposure, inappropriate content and predatory behaviour. They are present dangers our children face daily. I would like a moment to thank the task lead for protecting children, including in Northern children, including in Northern The parents and advocates of a smartphone free childhood. This bill champions in approach involving government, parents and educators, working together to safeguard our youth. We face a stark reality with Ofcom reporting 21 percent of children aged five to seven use the internet in the UK.
A figure that rises dramatically to 89 percent by the age of 12. I urge everyone to seriously consider these dangers and utilise the excellent resources available, such as smartphone free childhood.co.uk. Over 200 schools in Northern Ireland, many in my constituency, are already benefiting from these efforts. We must distinguish between the positive transformations that technology brings, enhancements in learning and communication and the serious threat it poses. Parliament must ensure that technical companies are held accountable for child protection, achieving the highest standards of safety, transparency, data privacy and timely content moderation are crucial to maintain that secure online environment.
This bill supports a collaborative approach, fostering partnerships across government, industry, leaders, parents, carers and educators. Together, we can keep our children safe. Let us be proactive, developing ever evolving tools that protect our children in the digital age. We must support parental control and enhance education about the dangers of the digital world. Being forewarned is being for armed. Let us aim for a future where safe online experience is a norm for all of our children. This is one of the most significant pieces of work this parliament will undertake.
Further and future generations will thank us all for it. Let's join together in backing this bill to ensure we create a digital landscape that prioritises the safety and well- being of all of our children. While I support the bill, there is a point that has been watered down about the bill. I believe children in primary schools should not have mobiles in the school environment. It leads to them not learning social interactive skills, distractions of learning and potential online abuse and bullying.
Children get better academic results when they do not have access to phones in schools. I support the bill and I wish him all the very best. He has my support wherever
**** Possible New Speaker ****
this goes. Can I start off like others by thanking the Member for Whitehaven thanking the Member for Whitehaven and Workington for bringing this and Workington for bringing this Private Member's Bill. A couple of
11:38
Katie White MP (Leeds North West, Labour)
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Katie White MP (Leeds North West, Labour)
Private Member's Bill. A couple of things I would like to mention to this House is my understanding is he is grounded in evidence-based policy-making and he has focused on issues that are perceived as being very tricky but will have an very tricky but will have an Many of us have travelled to our constituencies and come back, I know many others have been on sleeper trains, to make this important debate. I received twice as much correspondence on this bill than any correspondence on this bill than any other issue this year.
I want to thank the people of Leeds North West, including schoolchildren, teachers and parents who have shared their experiences with me. I would like to make a special mention to local primary schools who shared their stories on our showing leadership. There are a few key issues, I know there are many members that want to get in, I will try not to repeat. Many have said that the mental health crisis among our children is profound and we can see a clear correlation.
NHS England found 20.3 percent of eight to 16- year-olds had a probable mental disorder in 2023. Poor mental health amongst older teenagers aged 16 and 17 increased by more than 1/4 since 2017. According to research by UCL and the Sutton Trust, the research finds almost half, 44 percent, of young people were above the threshold for probable mental health illness. We need to be looking for solutions and fast. Concerns from teachers and parents were shared alike and teachers put in place are spending much time adjudicating battles that are out of their control on WhatsApp.
The other thing I found when I spoke to parents and teachers and pupils, was a sense of overwhelm. All of them are overwhelmed. They want to play their full role, parents want to play the full role and teachers certainly want to play their full role but they are overwhelmed. Parents feel huge pressure from peers and networks to get it right. I think networks to get it right. I think Would see that and see that sense of overwhelm, trying to navigate. I agreed with much of what the Member for North West Hampshire said, but in terms of the lack of clear guidance, was clear that people are navigating in different ways.
I do think the recommendation will be helpful in this bill. Schools in my constituency said that while they are willing to act, they are only responsible for children for 20 percent of their time. They cannot control. It needs to be all of us, we all need to play our part. What hits me is the opportunity cost of what else's children could be doing. Screen time has rocketed, in 2009, five to 15-year-olds averaged nine hours on screens per week. It has now jumped to between six and nine hours a day.
This has replaced critical childhood activities like outdoor play, social interactions, hobbies and learning those essential motor and social skills. The parking my constituency recently introduced a phone free policy during the school day. The teacher said it is completely different, when it used to be all heads down, they were talking and laughing and playing. The World Health Organisation recommends children aged two to five should have no more than one hour of screen time a day. The new research on excessive screen time looks at the impact on the prefrontal cortex, parrot all over and other areas.
These are fundamental shifts in brain development of our children. My constituent talked about children arriving at school with weaker social and motor skills. Struggling with communication tests, holding a The exposure to harmful content that some of my colleagues have referred to. Many others were chopped by the review that came only last week of the many dangers and we have heard this within our constituency. Possibly on a less damaging level, I have seen the impact myself of the beauty industry targeting young girls on YouTube.
We now have these ridiculous skincare regimes, they are marketing a high-strength retinal and hydrologic acid. The need for better regulation at online content aimed at children is clear. To echo the point from my honourable friend, I find this an infuriating argument. Many of us will have noticed, I'm sure the tech giants do not allow their children to have this access to online media. But in terms of when other addictive products were introduced to the market and we subsequently realised their harm, like was said on smoking, did we do nothing? No.
We are here to solve problems, not very ahead the sand and accept consequences. There is already good technology that could make this work. This is why other countries are introducing restrictions with confidence. We will have this with the Online Safety Act. I welcome the role of the UK Chief Medical Officers, who does not want more Chris Whitty in their lives? Schools and parents were calling out for more top-down guidance and I applaud this effort. We have to make sure the evidence base is at the heart of what we are doing.
I applaud the government for bringing this forward but I would urge this is the first step in our actions and I would ask that if possibly the Minister could consider whether we could have some sort of interim update by the summer. It is a crucial moment, I appreciate the 12 month period, but if there was an update by the summer, that would be helpful. Any opportunity we could do to increase the length of childhood of all of our children would be beneficial to all of our constituents in the
I want to thank the people of Leeds North West, including schoolchildren, teachers and parents who have shared their experiences with me. I would like to make a special mention to local primary schools who shared their stories on our showing leadership. There are a few key issues, I know there are many members that want to get in, I will try not to repeat. Many have said that the mental health crisis among our children is profound and we can see a clear correlation.
NHS England found 20.3 percent of eight to 16- year-olds had a probable mental disorder in 2023. Poor mental health amongst older teenagers aged 16 and 17 increased by more than 1/4 since 2017. According to research by UCL and the Sutton Trust, the research finds almost half, 44 percent, of young people were above the threshold for probable mental health illness. We need to be looking for solutions and fast. Concerns from teachers and parents were shared alike and teachers put in place are spending much time adjudicating battles that are out of their control on WhatsApp.
The other thing I found when I spoke to parents and teachers and pupils, was a sense of overwhelm. All of them are overwhelmed. They want to play their full role, parents want to play the full role and teachers certainly want to play their full role but they are overwhelmed. Parents feel huge pressure from peers and networks to get it right. I think networks to get it right. I think Would see that and see that sense of overwhelm, trying to navigate. I agreed with much of what the Member for North West Hampshire said, but in terms of the lack of clear guidance, was clear that people are navigating in different ways.
I do think the recommendation will be helpful in this bill. Schools in my constituency said that while they are willing to act, they are only responsible for children for 20 percent of their time. They cannot control. It needs to be all of us, we all need to play our part. What hits me is the opportunity cost of what else's children could be doing. Screen time has rocketed, in 2009, five to 15-year-olds averaged nine hours on screens per week. It has now jumped to between six and nine hours a day.
This has replaced critical childhood activities like outdoor play, social interactions, hobbies and learning those essential motor and social skills. The parking my constituency recently introduced a phone free policy during the school day. The teacher said it is completely different, when it used to be all heads down, they were talking and laughing and playing. The World Health Organisation recommends children aged two to five should have no more than one hour of screen time a day. The new research on excessive screen time looks at the impact on the prefrontal cortex, parrot all over and other areas.
These are fundamental shifts in brain development of our children. My constituent talked about children arriving at school with weaker social and motor skills. Struggling with communication tests, holding a The exposure to harmful content that some of my colleagues have referred to. Many others were chopped by the review that came only last week of the many dangers and we have heard this within our constituency. Possibly on a less damaging level, I have seen the impact myself of the beauty industry targeting young girls on YouTube.
We now have these ridiculous skincare regimes, they are marketing a high-strength retinal and hydrologic acid. The need for better regulation at online content aimed at children is clear. To echo the point from my honourable friend, I find this an infuriating argument. Many of us will have noticed, I'm sure the tech giants do not allow their children to have this access to online media. But in terms of when other addictive products were introduced to the market and we subsequently realised their harm, like was said on smoking, did we do nothing? No.
We are here to solve problems, not very ahead the sand and accept consequences. There is already good technology that could make this work. This is why other countries are introducing restrictions with confidence. We will have this with the Online Safety Act. I welcome the role of the UK Chief Medical Officers, who does not want more Chris Whitty in their lives? Schools and parents were calling out for more top-down guidance and I applaud this effort. We have to make sure the evidence base is at the heart of what we are doing.
I applaud the government for bringing this forward but I would urge this is the first step in our actions and I would ask that if possibly the Minister could consider whether we could have some sort of interim update by the summer. It is a crucial moment, I appreciate the 12 month period, but if there was an update by the summer, that would be helpful. Any opportunity we could do to increase the length of childhood of all of our children would be beneficial to all of our constituents in the
11:45
Sir Ashley Fox MP (Bridgwater, Conservative)
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Sir Ashley Fox MP (Bridgwater, Conservative)
The smartphone is one of the most remarkable pieces of technology ever invented. They keep us connected to the world and allow us to stay in touch with family, friends, colleagues, no matter where we or they are. It gives us access to the internet and the immeasurable amount of information available online. They give us access to emails, to allow us to organise our schedules, to do work on the train, even in this chamber. They're also fantastic entertainment hubs, be it music, movies, games, or e-books.
Smartphones and the internet have transformed society. And whilst most of this technological progress is good, I believe it has serious good, I believe it has serious consequences for our children. In 2023, Ofcom reported that most children acquire their first smartphone between the ages of nine and 11. That is problematic. Especially when it comes to social media. Social media on smartphones has become an integral part of our children's lives, and it also poses several risks that can have a negative impact on their well-being.
One of the biggest concerns is the effect it has on mental health. Constant exposure to curated idealised versions of others' lives can lead to feelings of inadequacy, anxiety, and depression. Teenagers may feel pressured to live up to unrealistic standards, affecting their self-esteem and self worth. There is also the potential for addiction. With the constant notifications, likes, shares. Social media apps are designed to capture attention and keep users engaged. Forever. This can lead to excessive screen time, reducing time spent on other important activities, like studying, physical exercise, and face-to-face interactions, all of which are essential for healthy development.
It also affects sleep patterns, and having brought up two children, I now have -- I know how difficult it can be to remove a phone at bed time. Ultimately, parents are responsible for how they bring up their children. Parents are responsible for deciding whether and when to allow their child to have a smartphone. And how long they use it for. But parents need help. And tech companies have a responsibility to ensure children are not exposed to harmful or addictive product.
Social media can also expose teenagers to cyber bullying. Online platforms can be breeding grounds for harmful behaviour as people feel anonymous and less accountable for their actions. Negative comments, trolling and harassment, can take a toll on a teenager's emotional health. Sometimes they lead to tragic consequences. Madame Deputy Speaker, I was pleased when the honourable member for Whitehaven and Workington was successful in the private members ballot, and announced he would introduce a bill to increase the digital age of consent from 13 to 16.
So, I was surprised when the bill was published only yesterday, to discover the very measure he has talked about isn't in the bill. All this bill requires is the Secretary of State make a statement about whether this age threshold can be raised. Now, why is that? I suspect what may have happened as the Member for Whitehaven and Workington received a visit from one of the government whips. Told them he had a very promising career ahead of him, should he agree to do the right
**** Possible New Speaker ****
thing and water this legislation down to the point where it doesn't actually do much at all. Happy too. I thank the honourable member for
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I thank the honourable member for giving way. He will know, as many in this House do, that private members this House do, that private members bills are often a shot in the dark. bills are often a shot in the dark. And my aim, from the beginning of this process, has been, yes, to have a national debate, but also to put all of my energy on landing this with some action and progress. And this is an issue, regardless of this is an issue, regardless of party, that has struggled to make progress before.
The previous government in 2019, 2021 and 2023, made statements on introducing phone bands in schools. And it never fully materialised. So, he can agree with me hopefully that we can work across
**** Possible New Speaker ****
the House to get progress on this for every available opportunity in the future. I am grateful for his
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I am grateful for his intervention but what I would say as having spent a great deal of time talking about raising the digital age of consent, having asked my constituents to email me, to be present in this House today, specifically to vote for that, specifically to vote for that, rather than being in the rather than being in the constituency, I wish he presented a bill that said that. Because we could have then voted on it and it could have then voted on it and it would have passed.
And of course, the government might have killed it off at a later stage, but they actually might have been too embarrassed to do that. Now, there is nothing in this bill Madame Deputy Speaker, that requires legislation. The Secretary of State could ask the UK's Chief Medical Officers to provide their advice, as close one requires, they would do close one requires, they would do so. And the Secretary of State could publish a plan for research, as required by section 2. And an assessment, as required by section 3.
So, the sad truth is, this bill achieves precisely nothing. Add the honourable gentleman should be a little bit ashamed of having campaigned so vigorously and then presented this bill. I am very sorry to say the bill really is... Very happy to, yes.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I am very grateful. I have seen are also a lot of bills in my time since 2001, nearly every bill has something in it that doesn't something in it that doesn't actually need to be in legislation but is nonetheless putting as a declaratory statement by the House declaratory statement by the House and when it has big support, tends to be something that does affect change, that might very well be the same effect we have today.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
same effect we have today. I would agree with the Minister,
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I would agree with the Minister, often a bill will contain something that is merely declaratory. Has he ever seen a bill that is wholly declaratory and contains nothing
**** Possible New Speaker ****
that actually requires legislation? Happy to give way. I'm grateful to my honourable friend. As I think we all know, this bill is likely at some point, the government seems to be adjourning it. I will his case be made, if effectively the case for adjournment is that the Minister committee is going to go and do these things anyway, and therefore the
**** Possible New Speaker ****
legislation is unnecessary. My honourable friend makes a very good point. I maintain this bill is good point. I maintain this bill is a waste of time. I will vote for it today if we get the opportunity, unfortunately, I understand it is just going to be adjourned, which suggests the government isn't that suggests the government isn't that serious about taking it forward, but I will vote with a heavy heart because I think the honourable gentleman could have achieved so gentleman could have achieved so much more, if he had had the courage
**** Possible New Speaker ****
of his convictions. Thank you, Madame Deputy Speaker. I am extremely pleased to be able to take part in this debate today and I thank my honourable friend for bringing the bill forward. It is no exaggeration to say we are facing crisis. As has already been expertly outlined by members across this House, there is a growing consensus that a regulated smartphone social media usage is harming our children's health, learning and
Smartphones and the internet have transformed society. And whilst most of this technological progress is good, I believe it has serious good, I believe it has serious consequences for our children. In 2023, Ofcom reported that most children acquire their first smartphone between the ages of nine and 11. That is problematic. Especially when it comes to social media. Social media on smartphones has become an integral part of our children's lives, and it also poses several risks that can have a negative impact on their well-being.
One of the biggest concerns is the effect it has on mental health. Constant exposure to curated idealised versions of others' lives can lead to feelings of inadequacy, anxiety, and depression. Teenagers may feel pressured to live up to unrealistic standards, affecting their self-esteem and self worth. There is also the potential for addiction. With the constant notifications, likes, shares. Social media apps are designed to capture attention and keep users engaged. Forever. This can lead to excessive screen time, reducing time spent on other important activities, like studying, physical exercise, and face-to-face interactions, all of which are essential for healthy development.
It also affects sleep patterns, and having brought up two children, I now have -- I know how difficult it can be to remove a phone at bed time. Ultimately, parents are responsible for how they bring up their children. Parents are responsible for deciding whether and when to allow their child to have a smartphone. And how long they use it for. But parents need help. And tech companies have a responsibility to ensure children are not exposed to harmful or addictive product.
Social media can also expose teenagers to cyber bullying. Online platforms can be breeding grounds for harmful behaviour as people feel anonymous and less accountable for their actions. Negative comments, trolling and harassment, can take a toll on a teenager's emotional health. Sometimes they lead to tragic consequences. Madame Deputy Speaker, I was pleased when the honourable member for Whitehaven and Workington was successful in the private members ballot, and announced he would introduce a bill to increase the digital age of consent from 13 to 16.
So, I was surprised when the bill was published only yesterday, to discover the very measure he has talked about isn't in the bill. All this bill requires is the Secretary of State make a statement about whether this age threshold can be raised. Now, why is that? I suspect what may have happened as the Member for Whitehaven and Workington received a visit from one of the government whips. Told them he had a very promising career ahead of him, should he agree to do the right
**** Possible New Speaker ****
thing and water this legislation down to the point where it doesn't actually do much at all. Happy too. I thank the honourable member for
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I thank the honourable member for giving way. He will know, as many in this House do, that private members this House do, that private members bills are often a shot in the dark. bills are often a shot in the dark. And my aim, from the beginning of this process, has been, yes, to have a national debate, but also to put all of my energy on landing this with some action and progress. And this is an issue, regardless of this is an issue, regardless of party, that has struggled to make progress before.
The previous government in 2019, 2021 and 2023, made statements on introducing phone bands in schools. And it never fully materialised. So, he can agree with me hopefully that we can work across
**** Possible New Speaker ****
the House to get progress on this for every available opportunity in the future. I am grateful for his
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I am grateful for his intervention but what I would say as having spent a great deal of time talking about raising the digital age of consent, having asked my constituents to email me, to be present in this House today, specifically to vote for that, specifically to vote for that, rather than being in the rather than being in the constituency, I wish he presented a bill that said that. Because we could have then voted on it and it could have then voted on it and it would have passed.
And of course, the government might have killed it off at a later stage, but they actually might have been too embarrassed to do that. Now, there is nothing in this bill Madame Deputy Speaker, that requires legislation. The Secretary of State could ask the UK's Chief Medical Officers to provide their advice, as close one requires, they would do close one requires, they would do so. And the Secretary of State could publish a plan for research, as required by section 2. And an assessment, as required by section 3.
So, the sad truth is, this bill achieves precisely nothing. Add the honourable gentleman should be a little bit ashamed of having campaigned so vigorously and then presented this bill. I am very sorry to say the bill really is... Very happy to, yes.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I am very grateful. I have seen are also a lot of bills in my time since 2001, nearly every bill has something in it that doesn't something in it that doesn't actually need to be in legislation but is nonetheless putting as a declaratory statement by the House declaratory statement by the House and when it has big support, tends to be something that does affect change, that might very well be the same effect we have today.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
same effect we have today. I would agree with the Minister,
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I would agree with the Minister, often a bill will contain something that is merely declaratory. Has he ever seen a bill that is wholly declaratory and contains nothing
**** Possible New Speaker ****
that actually requires legislation? Happy to give way. I'm grateful to my honourable friend. As I think we all know, this bill is likely at some point, the government seems to be adjourning it. I will his case be made, if effectively the case for adjournment is that the Minister committee is going to go and do these things anyway, and therefore the
**** Possible New Speaker ****
legislation is unnecessary. My honourable friend makes a very good point. I maintain this bill is good point. I maintain this bill is a waste of time. I will vote for it today if we get the opportunity, unfortunately, I understand it is just going to be adjourned, which suggests the government isn't that suggests the government isn't that serious about taking it forward, but I will vote with a heavy heart because I think the honourable gentleman could have achieved so gentleman could have achieved so much more, if he had had the courage
**** Possible New Speaker ****
of his convictions. Thank you, Madame Deputy Speaker. I am extremely pleased to be able to take part in this debate today and I thank my honourable friend for bringing the bill forward. It is no exaggeration to say we are facing crisis. As has already been expertly outlined by members across this House, there is a growing consensus that a regulated smartphone social media usage is harming our children's health, learning and
11:53
John Whitby MP (Derbyshire Dales, Labour)
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John Whitby MP (Derbyshire Dales, Labour)
well-being. Many of the long-term implications for those who have grown up with social media remain unknown, but we can already see the warning signs. A number of children warning signs. A number of children aged eight-16 face mental health aged eight-16 face mental health disorders, has already double by 2016 for the people in contact with young people's mental health services in the 2023, up from 362,000 by 2016 for the people in contact with young people's mental health services in the 2023, up from 362,002 years earlier for I recently met with parents in my constituency who are widely concerned by the impacts social media and phone usage is having on their mental health.
And their sleep and learning. Cyber bullying content design some young people feel insecure and unwanted, explicit content, are just some of the issues children now face. Children are losing out on socialising and time spent outside, to activities which isolate them and keep them inside. One third of mental health problems are directly connected to childhood experiences. Between 2010 and 2018, the number of young people attending A&E with a psychiatric condition more than tripled. The COVID. Exacerbated the social and mental health impact and smartphone and social media use, but it has been in the making for more than a decade.
Failure to hold the tech companies accountable and providing necessary mental health support for our young people has not created a perfect storm for the crisis we are now facing. We mustn't treat smartphone social media addiction as a natural phenomenon. Tech companies have created systems intended precisely to be addictive and maximise the time users spend on their phones. Currently, one in four young adults show signs of behavioural addiction to smartphones. The algorithms of user interfaces of social media sites are designed to be addictive.
Targeting dopamine circuits in the brain. Research shows that some social media apps can trigger brain responses, similar to slot machine gambling. Right now, many parents are forced into an impossible position. With a choice between letting children access potentially harmful and addictive content or feeling their child is isolated and left out from their peers. The impact on mental health and learning are especially pronounced for vulnerable young people who already lack the support they need at school and in the community.
And we cannot ignore the political impacts of unrelated social media either. It is incredibly concerning to see extremist content being pushed to young people, who are increasingly isolated. Many of these young people spend less time with their friends, and less time and physical community spaces. Last year, we saw Australia's government move to take serious action on these issues, banning children under 16 from using social media. And having the power to fine companies who failed to comply. It is clear that we have a very long way to go.
But this bill is a positive step and will help to build the national conversation needed to tackle the scale of these problems. I just wanted to finish, Madame Deputy Speaker, with a quote from a parent of a child who took a life. The parents filed lawsuits against two tech giants, and this is a quote I have seen in an article from New Yorker magazine in 2024. He said, " I thought I was a good and responsible father. I checked around the House and locked the doors every night.
Making everything nice and safe. I didn't understand that the
**** Possible New Speaker ****
lion was already inside the House." Thank you, Madame Deputy Speaker.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Thank you, Madame Deputy Speaker. I am very pleased to speak today in I am very pleased to speak today in support of this bill, and a mother who battles everyday with screen time, and a governor for schools who time, and a governor for schools who see the damage it can do to young people's mental health, and as a member, who hopes to do something to member, who hopes to do something to turn the tide on the damage of young people who have been used as guinea
And their sleep and learning. Cyber bullying content design some young people feel insecure and unwanted, explicit content, are just some of the issues children now face. Children are losing out on socialising and time spent outside, to activities which isolate them and keep them inside. One third of mental health problems are directly connected to childhood experiences. Between 2010 and 2018, the number of young people attending A&E with a psychiatric condition more than tripled. The COVID. Exacerbated the social and mental health impact and smartphone and social media use, but it has been in the making for more than a decade.
Failure to hold the tech companies accountable and providing necessary mental health support for our young people has not created a perfect storm for the crisis we are now facing. We mustn't treat smartphone social media addiction as a natural phenomenon. Tech companies have created systems intended precisely to be addictive and maximise the time users spend on their phones. Currently, one in four young adults show signs of behavioural addiction to smartphones. The algorithms of user interfaces of social media sites are designed to be addictive.
Targeting dopamine circuits in the brain. Research shows that some social media apps can trigger brain responses, similar to slot machine gambling. Right now, many parents are forced into an impossible position. With a choice between letting children access potentially harmful and addictive content or feeling their child is isolated and left out from their peers. The impact on mental health and learning are especially pronounced for vulnerable young people who already lack the support they need at school and in the community.
And we cannot ignore the political impacts of unrelated social media either. It is incredibly concerning to see extremist content being pushed to young people, who are increasingly isolated. Many of these young people spend less time with their friends, and less time and physical community spaces. Last year, we saw Australia's government move to take serious action on these issues, banning children under 16 from using social media. And having the power to fine companies who failed to comply. It is clear that we have a very long way to go.
But this bill is a positive step and will help to build the national conversation needed to tackle the scale of these problems. I just wanted to finish, Madame Deputy Speaker, with a quote from a parent of a child who took a life. The parents filed lawsuits against two tech giants, and this is a quote I have seen in an article from New Yorker magazine in 2024. He said, " I thought I was a good and responsible father. I checked around the House and locked the doors every night.
Making everything nice and safe. I didn't understand that the
**** Possible New Speaker ****
lion was already inside the House." Thank you, Madame Deputy Speaker.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Thank you, Madame Deputy Speaker. I am very pleased to speak today in I am very pleased to speak today in support of this bill, and a mother who battles everyday with screen time, and a governor for schools who time, and a governor for schools who see the damage it can do to young people's mental health, and as a member, who hopes to do something to member, who hopes to do something to turn the tide on the damage of young people who have been used as guinea
11:57
Monica Harding MP (Esher and Walton, Liberal Democrat)
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Monica Harding MP (Esher and Walton, Liberal Democrat)
pigs in the rapid advance of technology for we are well into the tech revolution, it will change anything and is a force for good, but just like previous industrial but just like previous industrial revolutions, there are victims. Then when the children in factories powering the revolution, today, there are children needing there are children needing protection against the soon army of tech and its intended harms. This bill, as originally intended, was a crucial step in the safeguarding and well-being of our children in our digital world and I want to sincerely thank the honourable member for Whitehaven and Workington for all his work today in his campaign for the safety of children.
As many have pointed out here already, the evidence before us is undeniable, and I will not rehearse them, I just want to pull out a few points. 2.5 million children in the UK are using social media underage, and before, crucially, they have developed the necessary skills to navigate complex and risky online environments. Extended screen time has already spread rapidly and become the norm for most young people. And as I want to commend the report for the education Select Committee which revealed that nearly 1/4 of children use smartphones in a way that is consistent with a behavioural addiction.
In screen use starts. As early a six months of age and by the time children reach 12 years old, nearly all have a smartphone. So, social media and mobile applications are not just tools for communication, many are inherently addictive by design. Engineered to keep users engaged, whatever the cost, and I know this through my children. Like to underscore the words of many of the honourable member say today, on the addictive nature and the battles parents have. It is causing huge pressure on parents who battle with addictive algorithms, which they cannot possibly win.
So, the initial provisions in this bill are ones I wholeheartedly support and so did hundreds of my constituents. Who wrote to me in support of the campaign, behind the bill, and while I continue to support it, I must express disappointment that it is being significantly watered down. What could have been a bold step in child protection has been reduced to mere provisions. The government research commitments and guidance provisions, but actually do not require legislation. And we know the government has already committed to commissioning academic research on smartphone use, last autumn.
Partly in response to the very welcome campaign brought about by the honourable member for Whitehaven and Workington. And we already have overwhelming evidence that we have heard today, supporting stronger regulation. So, really, how much more evidence does the government need? Head teachers across my constituency and parent groups across have convened campaigns with nearly 1,000 signatures for parliamentary positions on this issue, exposing huge concerns about excessive smartphone use, and regular to social media, and their inadequacy of current regulations for and other schools in my constituency were particularly encouraged by initial indications this bill would make the requirements for schools to be mobile free.
And to receive government support. As they seek to enforce effective and safe learning spaces. In fact, the Head Teacher of Esher high School, Deakin, illustrated to me just how much greater problem-solving teachers having to adopt in order to keep children focus on learning. When they are walking around with such an addictive invention right in their pockets. His school has been compelled to enforce close backpacks only rule, as opposed to open bags, handbags, just so children are not distracted by seeing a notification distracted by seeing a notification All head teachers talk about inattention caused by phones and inability to focus on a whole book.
Research showed it can take up to 20 minutes for pupils to refocus after engaging in non-academic digital activity. It has also been linked to declining language skills, social skills and sleep health. As we mark International Women's Day, we should not ignore how the access to smartphones can undermine healthy relationships and the well-being of women and girls. The average age of first exposure to pornography being just 13 years old. I know a constituent whose child saw extreme pornography and developed OCD.
For girls aged seven to 21, 81 percent have experienced some form of threatening or upsetting behaviour online. I appreciate what the honourable member has done to build the case for government action but it is a pity that we are not going to be able to test the will of Parliament for a more ambitious approach to online safety from this government than we have at the present. Turning to the Minister, I know the Secretary of State has already expressed frustration with gaps in the Online Safety Act and its implementation, this bill could have been used to make urgent amendments to it.
Why has the government not used that opportunity, particularly when the Secretary of State indicated there would be no new legislation coming along any time soon? I would urge the government to take concrete steps to protect young people now. The first step to ensure there is requirement to ensure that minimum age limits are on platforms. And the Ofcom draft children's codes to not impose an obligation on services to enforce this on the minimum age of users on their platforms. This is something the children's charity argued for in consultation and campaigned on ever since.
Ofcom is not listening and the government is doing nothing to address this. This bill could and should have been used as a means to plug that gap, regardless of what additional evidence the government feels it needs, before it makes any further policy or legislative commitments. Will the government commit to doing so? The second is an issue in the last couple of months, with the announcement from Meta it is removing protections for vulnerable users. There is no mechanism in the Online Safety Act to prevent online but -- online operators rolling back on their terms of service.
This means that for children on the Online Safety Act, there is no probation on platforms reducing standards. They can keep rolling back on the user safety protections until they hit the level harmful for children. This is not right, but it cannot be -- that it can be fixed in an amendment to the Online Safety Act. Can the government use this bill to do so? This bill could have been a real policy for action, but although the provisions are not as strong as I hope, some progress is better than none.
I will be supporting. Tired colleagues not only to support this bill, due -- but to push for stronger and bolder reforms our children need. To say it is inevitable is not enough. Every day we wait is another day with a child spending 18 hours online, potentially at grave risk. I urge us all to act.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
May I start by thanking the Member for Whitehaven and Workington Member for Whitehaven and Workington for bringing this bill forward. I'm proud to be a co-sponsor of the bill proud to be a co-sponsor of the bill and to have worked with the member and to have worked with the member on it. I also want to thank the Member for giving us all a chance to speak in what is potentially the speak in what is potentially the most engaged chamber we have ever seen as we grapple with the hypocrisy mentioned by the Member hypocrisy mentioned by the Member for Reigate as to whether even in this debate we can be on smartphones.
I'm sure we will be listening attentively. What were you all doing when you were collectively in school back in the mist of time? If I think back to the early 2000's, when I was in school, I would go out afterwards, calling ahead on the home phone to see whether my friends were in. We did not have smartphones when I was at school. During the summer holidays the rule was that you had to be a home before the street lights came on.
I remember playing on the local shops -- outside the local shops day after day in the long summers. If you think of children today and the chartered they will have, imagine playing their favourite game but with a device in their pocket buzzing every minute, telling them
As many have pointed out here already, the evidence before us is undeniable, and I will not rehearse them, I just want to pull out a few points. 2.5 million children in the UK are using social media underage, and before, crucially, they have developed the necessary skills to navigate complex and risky online environments. Extended screen time has already spread rapidly and become the norm for most young people. And as I want to commend the report for the education Select Committee which revealed that nearly 1/4 of children use smartphones in a way that is consistent with a behavioural addiction.
In screen use starts. As early a six months of age and by the time children reach 12 years old, nearly all have a smartphone. So, social media and mobile applications are not just tools for communication, many are inherently addictive by design. Engineered to keep users engaged, whatever the cost, and I know this through my children. Like to underscore the words of many of the honourable member say today, on the addictive nature and the battles parents have. It is causing huge pressure on parents who battle with addictive algorithms, which they cannot possibly win.
So, the initial provisions in this bill are ones I wholeheartedly support and so did hundreds of my constituents. Who wrote to me in support of the campaign, behind the bill, and while I continue to support it, I must express disappointment that it is being significantly watered down. What could have been a bold step in child protection has been reduced to mere provisions. The government research commitments and guidance provisions, but actually do not require legislation. And we know the government has already committed to commissioning academic research on smartphone use, last autumn.
Partly in response to the very welcome campaign brought about by the honourable member for Whitehaven and Workington. And we already have overwhelming evidence that we have heard today, supporting stronger regulation. So, really, how much more evidence does the government need? Head teachers across my constituency and parent groups across have convened campaigns with nearly 1,000 signatures for parliamentary positions on this issue, exposing huge concerns about excessive smartphone use, and regular to social media, and their inadequacy of current regulations for and other schools in my constituency were particularly encouraged by initial indications this bill would make the requirements for schools to be mobile free.
And to receive government support. As they seek to enforce effective and safe learning spaces. In fact, the Head Teacher of Esher high School, Deakin, illustrated to me just how much greater problem-solving teachers having to adopt in order to keep children focus on learning. When they are walking around with such an addictive invention right in their pockets. His school has been compelled to enforce close backpacks only rule, as opposed to open bags, handbags, just so children are not distracted by seeing a notification distracted by seeing a notification All head teachers talk about inattention caused by phones and inability to focus on a whole book.
Research showed it can take up to 20 minutes for pupils to refocus after engaging in non-academic digital activity. It has also been linked to declining language skills, social skills and sleep health. As we mark International Women's Day, we should not ignore how the access to smartphones can undermine healthy relationships and the well-being of women and girls. The average age of first exposure to pornography being just 13 years old. I know a constituent whose child saw extreme pornography and developed OCD.
For girls aged seven to 21, 81 percent have experienced some form of threatening or upsetting behaviour online. I appreciate what the honourable member has done to build the case for government action but it is a pity that we are not going to be able to test the will of Parliament for a more ambitious approach to online safety from this government than we have at the present. Turning to the Minister, I know the Secretary of State has already expressed frustration with gaps in the Online Safety Act and its implementation, this bill could have been used to make urgent amendments to it.
Why has the government not used that opportunity, particularly when the Secretary of State indicated there would be no new legislation coming along any time soon? I would urge the government to take concrete steps to protect young people now. The first step to ensure there is requirement to ensure that minimum age limits are on platforms. And the Ofcom draft children's codes to not impose an obligation on services to enforce this on the minimum age of users on their platforms. This is something the children's charity argued for in consultation and campaigned on ever since.
Ofcom is not listening and the government is doing nothing to address this. This bill could and should have been used as a means to plug that gap, regardless of what additional evidence the government feels it needs, before it makes any further policy or legislative commitments. Will the government commit to doing so? The second is an issue in the last couple of months, with the announcement from Meta it is removing protections for vulnerable users. There is no mechanism in the Online Safety Act to prevent online but -- online operators rolling back on their terms of service.
This means that for children on the Online Safety Act, there is no probation on platforms reducing standards. They can keep rolling back on the user safety protections until they hit the level harmful for children. This is not right, but it cannot be -- that it can be fixed in an amendment to the Online Safety Act. Can the government use this bill to do so? This bill could have been a real policy for action, but although the provisions are not as strong as I hope, some progress is better than none.
I will be supporting. Tired colleagues not only to support this bill, due -- but to push for stronger and bolder reforms our children need. To say it is inevitable is not enough. Every day we wait is another day with a child spending 18 hours online, potentially at grave risk. I urge us all to act.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
May I start by thanking the Member for Whitehaven and Workington Member for Whitehaven and Workington for bringing this bill forward. I'm proud to be a co-sponsor of the bill proud to be a co-sponsor of the bill and to have worked with the member and to have worked with the member on it. I also want to thank the Member for giving us all a chance to speak in what is potentially the speak in what is potentially the most engaged chamber we have ever seen as we grapple with the hypocrisy mentioned by the Member hypocrisy mentioned by the Member for Reigate as to whether even in this debate we can be on smartphones.
I'm sure we will be listening attentively. What were you all doing when you were collectively in school back in the mist of time? If I think back to the early 2000's, when I was in school, I would go out afterwards, calling ahead on the home phone to see whether my friends were in. We did not have smartphones when I was at school. During the summer holidays the rule was that you had to be a home before the street lights came on.
I remember playing on the local shops -- outside the local shops day after day in the long summers. If you think of children today and the chartered they will have, imagine playing their favourite game but with a device in their pocket buzzing every minute, telling them
12:06
Dan Tomlinson MP (Chipping Barnet, Labour)
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Dan Tomlinson MP (Chipping Barnet, Labour)
someone has responded to their someone has responded to their latest Instagram posts all of their friends are checking their phones friends are checking their phones to. The game starts to feel a bit different. Instead of enjoying independent play outside, today's independent play outside, today's children and young people are spending our upon our of their free spending our upon our of their free time glued to their screens. The average British 12-year-old is now estimated to spend something between estimated to spend something between 20 and 30 hours a week online by the nations -- rather nations green spaces sit empty.
I believe this issue is where the well-being of a generation is at stake. The trends that have emerged since young children started together own smartphones, just a decade ago, are very concerning. I am worried about that heartbreaking rise in suicide and self-harm, rising depression and anxiety, online bullying, the things children get exposed to through the devices in their pockets and the 46 percent of teenagers who say they are using their phone almost constantly. I'm worried about the risk of traffic on children walking to school staring at their phones.
It is not just tired old dads like me that are concerned. For in every 516 to 24-year-olds say that social media has become addictive in the last five years. Most heartbreaking last five years. Most heartbreaking of all, if you ask generation said, if life will be better or worse without social media, only 18 percent of girls in the group said it would be worse if social media was switched off entirely. The majority think their life would be better without it.
I was radicalised over the summer by reading the book, the anxious generation. I decided to reach out to smartphone free childhood and my local campaign team to try to get every single school in my constituency and borough to go my constituency and borough to go smartphone free. And primary schools's heads, 10 out of 10 of them said they were concerned about this issue. We worked really hard. I am proud that the borough will be going smartphone free from September this year.
Every single primary school, 103, have signed up and the secondary schools are following suit also. I want to commend the work of teachers and parents, fantastic people who want to do the best by their children in our borough. I do hope that the measures in this bill can be taken forward to help children have the best start in life that they can and so we can make sure we protect wellbeing of future generations.
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I often say that I would not like to be a teenager today, growing up to be a teenager today, growing up with the environment dominated with social media. It was bad enough by social media. It was bad enough by the time I got to secondary school that everyone did have a phone and by the time I left secondary school,
I believe this issue is where the well-being of a generation is at stake. The trends that have emerged since young children started together own smartphones, just a decade ago, are very concerning. I am worried about that heartbreaking rise in suicide and self-harm, rising depression and anxiety, online bullying, the things children get exposed to through the devices in their pockets and the 46 percent of teenagers who say they are using their phone almost constantly. I'm worried about the risk of traffic on children walking to school staring at their phones.
It is not just tired old dads like me that are concerned. For in every 516 to 24-year-olds say that social media has become addictive in the last five years. Most heartbreaking last five years. Most heartbreaking of all, if you ask generation said, if life will be better or worse without social media, only 18 percent of girls in the group said it would be worse if social media was switched off entirely. The majority think their life would be better without it.
I was radicalised over the summer by reading the book, the anxious generation. I decided to reach out to smartphone free childhood and my local campaign team to try to get every single school in my constituency and borough to go my constituency and borough to go smartphone free. And primary schools's heads, 10 out of 10 of them said they were concerned about this issue. We worked really hard. I am proud that the borough will be going smartphone free from September this year.
Every single primary school, 103, have signed up and the secondary schools are following suit also. I want to commend the work of teachers and parents, fantastic people who want to do the best by their children in our borough. I do hope that the measures in this bill can be taken forward to help children have the best start in life that they can and so we can make sure we protect wellbeing of future generations.
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I often say that I would not like to be a teenager today, growing up to be a teenager today, growing up with the environment dominated with social media. It was bad enough by social media. It was bad enough by the time I got to secondary school that everyone did have a phone and by the time I left secondary school,
12:10
Lewis Cocking MP (Broxbourne, Conservative)
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Lewis Cocking MP (Broxbourne, Conservative)
everyone had a smartphone. There is no doubt that the threats to children in our country have been utterly transformed in just the last decade. Therefore, we need to transform how we address those issues in this place. I certainly support the thrust of the bill presented before us today. The government must treat children's use of digital devices and social media as a health issue. Children are spending more and more of their lives on social media at younger and younger ages.
Those aged 12 to 15 spend an average of 35 hours a week on their smartphone. 35 hours a week. We know that Paul mental health has spiked amongst young people in the last 15 years. But I do have some concerns about the proposal before us today. -- Paul mental health. While I respect the intentions for the bill and passion for the issue, I'm frustrated it does not seem to make changes to the current situation. It places a duty on the Secretary of State to publish an assessment on the impact of social media in 12 months.
From that social media in 12 months. From that point, in general, I think this is where the public get frustrated with Parliament and politicians about the fact we are going to say were going to do some research and to a meeting. I think the public want to see action in lots of the areas we speak about in this place and there has been a massive consensus for the work that the honourable member has done by bringing forward this bill today from all sides of the chamber and I think there is a consensus from those who have spoken today about the need to go further and faster on this issue.
I will certainly be supporting the member in doing so. But the bill does just contain a feeble instruction. For parents and kids struggling now, with a be comforted by the publication of a plan for research into the topic as far away as the middle of 2026? The government has established a research project and it is due to report its findings. Do we need to add to the statute book to ask the government to do this? I fear the bill will outsource decision-making to others rather than allowing the elected parliament, parents and children themselves, to contribute to a policy solution to this issue.
Rather than publishing research in the next 12 months, would it not be better if the government came forward with a proposal for example, increasing the digital age of consent to this parliament, so we can debate it? Also, this bill mentions a consultation with Ofcom and the Information Commissioner. It should be Members of Parliament representing families in our constituencies that ultimately make a decision on the right course of action. I hope, if this bill does pass, Parliament will be consulted before any changes are made.
We can all agree there is a serious problem affecting society and younger generations as a whole. Because we can all agree on that, I believe we need to see firm poses from the government, coming forward, not just more research. I completely concur with what my honourable friend said earlier, I will not be standing on earlier, I will not be standing on these benches often calling for government intervention on issues, but this issue has become so great to lots of members of our society, that I do feel we need to legislate in this area because it has been clear over the short to medium-term that social media companies have failed to step up and do more because they could do more without legislation and they could be more proactive about it.
They have failed to do that. I do think the time is now right. Hopefully what we can take away from today is the fact that we have had a debate. The fact we have aired some of those grievances around the harmful social -- that social media does two generations in this country. Hopefully by the time this proposal comes back in 12 months, hopefully social media companies have sold some of the issues and worked harder and faster. I think we all have skin in the game.
My sister has recently given birth, I am now an uncle. I do have skin in the game. We have got to act because I've there if we do not act, we will let down not only generations coming through the education system now, we were let down future generations and those like my niece who have not start in the education system. I support many of the comments in the House today. I urge the member to keep going and come forward and help the government come forward with stern proposals on this issue.
I believe there is cross-party support amongst everyone who has spoken today that we need to go faster to solve this issue. And hopefully save future generations that are coming through the that are coming through the
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Abbott like to pay tribute to the
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Abbott like to pay tribute to the work of my honourable friend, the member for Whitehaven and Workington, it has been an honour to work alongside you on this crucial work alongside you on this crucial issue. So, tackling online safety for our children in this country is a diamond issue, it is rare, popular
Those aged 12 to 15 spend an average of 35 hours a week on their smartphone. 35 hours a week. We know that Paul mental health has spiked amongst young people in the last 15 years. But I do have some concerns about the proposal before us today. -- Paul mental health. While I respect the intentions for the bill and passion for the issue, I'm frustrated it does not seem to make changes to the current situation. It places a duty on the Secretary of State to publish an assessment on the impact of social media in 12 months.
From that social media in 12 months. From that point, in general, I think this is where the public get frustrated with Parliament and politicians about the fact we are going to say were going to do some research and to a meeting. I think the public want to see action in lots of the areas we speak about in this place and there has been a massive consensus for the work that the honourable member has done by bringing forward this bill today from all sides of the chamber and I think there is a consensus from those who have spoken today about the need to go further and faster on this issue.
I will certainly be supporting the member in doing so. But the bill does just contain a feeble instruction. For parents and kids struggling now, with a be comforted by the publication of a plan for research into the topic as far away as the middle of 2026? The government has established a research project and it is due to report its findings. Do we need to add to the statute book to ask the government to do this? I fear the bill will outsource decision-making to others rather than allowing the elected parliament, parents and children themselves, to contribute to a policy solution to this issue.
Rather than publishing research in the next 12 months, would it not be better if the government came forward with a proposal for example, increasing the digital age of consent to this parliament, so we can debate it? Also, this bill mentions a consultation with Ofcom and the Information Commissioner. It should be Members of Parliament representing families in our constituencies that ultimately make a decision on the right course of action. I hope, if this bill does pass, Parliament will be consulted before any changes are made.
We can all agree there is a serious problem affecting society and younger generations as a whole. Because we can all agree on that, I believe we need to see firm poses from the government, coming forward, not just more research. I completely concur with what my honourable friend said earlier, I will not be standing on earlier, I will not be standing on these benches often calling for government intervention on issues, but this issue has become so great to lots of members of our society, that I do feel we need to legislate in this area because it has been clear over the short to medium-term that social media companies have failed to step up and do more because they could do more without legislation and they could be more proactive about it.
They have failed to do that. I do think the time is now right. Hopefully what we can take away from today is the fact that we have had a debate. The fact we have aired some of those grievances around the harmful social -- that social media does two generations in this country. Hopefully by the time this proposal comes back in 12 months, hopefully social media companies have sold some of the issues and worked harder and faster. I think we all have skin in the game.
My sister has recently given birth, I am now an uncle. I do have skin in the game. We have got to act because I've there if we do not act, we will let down not only generations coming through the education system now, we were let down future generations and those like my niece who have not start in the education system. I support many of the comments in the House today. I urge the member to keep going and come forward and help the government come forward with stern proposals on this issue.
I believe there is cross-party support amongst everyone who has spoken today that we need to go faster to solve this issue. And hopefully save future generations that are coming through the that are coming through the
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Abbott like to pay tribute to the
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Abbott like to pay tribute to the work of my honourable friend, the member for Whitehaven and Workington, it has been an honour to work alongside you on this crucial work alongside you on this crucial issue. So, tackling online safety for our children in this country is a diamond issue, it is rare, popular
12:16
Lola McEvoy MP (Darlington, Labour)
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Lola McEvoy MP (Darlington, Labour)
and tough, and getting it right will deliver on what is our most precious responsibility, the protection of our children. We as a society have a duty to protect our children from predators, from each other, from themselves, and from harm. The contrast between the reasons not to legislate further and the reasons to take action now could not be starker in quality in my opinion. The argument is one, we must go further than the reading of the Online Safety Act, if we want to protect our children and their right to a safe and so they -- Healthy childhood.
I will use my time in this debate to talk a little bit about why I care about it, a little bit about the work that has already been done, and a little bit about how we need to go further and act now. So, a long, long time ago, I was 11 years old. And Titanic the movie was coming out, and I am sure you will all remember, it was a huge To see it, but as an 11-year-old, it was rated aged 12, my parents told me I wasn't allowed.
I love drama, history, and Leonardo DiCaprio! And I was incensed at the injustice that I was not allowed to watch it, because all of my friends were. Outrageous. I gave my parents held on the issue, I tried every persuasion technique available to me persuasion technique available to me and I still was not allowed. I still love history, drama, Leo less so, but I'm talking about this because I wasn't really upset by not being able to see the film, I was scared of being left out from my peer group.
And this is the key issue that parents bring up, in Darlington, they say to me so frequently that the pressure to give their child a smartphone when they are not sure if they are safe is overwhelming. And so, it is time for us to help them answer some of the questions they are asking. They need stronger legislation and guidance from government on what is safe for their children to do online. Should the children be allowed a phone, if so, when? Should they post pictures of them online? Should they be allowed to use the chats on games? Should they be allowed social media profiles? Should they limit their screen time? These are all questions that require answers and the parents want them from us.
Parents, as we know, will always know what is best for their children but they often disagree with their parenting styles, and that can be a cause of contention in peer groups, schools, and can be a clash of values amongst many other things. It is normal, the issue is not about parenting styles and choices, because parents United across the country, as we have heard today from everybody's contribution, that they need more action and guidance from legislators. Over the course of this campaign, I become convinced beyond reasonable doubt that more legislation is needed, that the public support that, and that Ofcom's reading of the Online Safety Act is not necessarily narrow, and the first legislations of the children code coming out are not strong enough to protect our children.
It is accepted even the strongest legislation will take time to put in and will be imperfect, so let's go further now. I want to lay out the reasons that I still support the measures posed in the original bill, by my dear and honourable friend, the member for Whitehaven and Workington. So, my first measure, should the children have phones in school? Teachers don't think so, children know they shouldn't, and evidence in schools where phones were banned have seen absence and teachers reduced, 10 sets in children go up, I have seen I started an online safety forum in Darlington with two children in year 10 from every school in town, brought them together, and ask them what the big issues were for them, they said, peer to peer bullying was above and beyond the biggest issue.
Bullying exacerbated by the use of smartphones, in and outside of school and online. Their online activity. They said to me people using their phones to film each other and send them round, attacking each other, bullying each other, it was causing a big mental health issue. So, we know, or I feel, it is hard to argue against the rationale schools should be for learning. I
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will give way. She is making an impassioned speech, did she agree with me social speech, did she agree with me social media has made bullying in some cases 24-hour was a day? It means it can happen at any point, even when a child is no longer out school.
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child is no longer out school. That is exactly the case. Being
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That is exactly the case. Being 14 is hard, being at school stuff, there has always been bullying, and it is unreasonable and unrealistic to say that we will completely to say that we will completely eradicate that as legislators. But what is happening is that children what is happening is that children used to be able to go home and be protected from what was going on at school and that is no longer the case. So, we have to do everything we can to give them some time a phones in school.
So, I do think there is no case for children to have their smartphones in schools and I think most children -- Most and I think most children -- Most teachers agree with that as well. Next, this is unnecessary, children deserve a right for anonymity throughout their childhood and the right to not have a digital footprint when they come of age. I absolutely support the age of digital consent lifting from 13 to 16, I think the sooner we do that, the better.
Addicted by design content, even arguing against this, I cannot understand and fathom how there is any argument that children should be exposed to addictive by design algorithms and content on social media. I do not know who will possibly argue that was a good idea. Our job is to protect children. I
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will. Thank you very much. I share her concern about the addictive nature of social media. She also concerned about the addictive nature of gambling type games we are seeing young children use? With loot boxes, micro-transactions, the encouragement of young people to get into this gambling mindset through into this gambling mindset through technology at the moment.
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I thank the honourable member for that intervention. I think there are a lot of changing and moving parts a lot of changing and moving parts in the online platform and in the online world and is really hard for legislators to keep up, we are already lagging way behind where we need to be, so what we need and that point I will address later on in my speech, it is a dynamic risk assessment. So, when new innovations come online and we see children using them, they would be risk assessed in real time and prevents from coming into harm.
The next point is marketing to children. Obviously, this needs to be kept in line with new societal trends to protect from being targeted from sales, it is quite clear. I stand by the original measures in the bill and I'm confident this is not the end of this campaign. The honourable friend for Whitehaven and Workington, when we first met as candidates for the Labour Party, when we were both shocked at how crosscutting children's safety online was as an issue from constituents. When he asked me to be a co-sponsor for this bill, I said I will but asked for support for the grieving family in the groups, because I had a huge amount of respect for them for so he agreed to invite him to Parliament and the argument there is a moral panic over children's online safety is so utterly offensive, that I cannot overstate how upsetting it is for people in that group and around the country who have real serious concerns about their children's safety online.
So, I want to put on record, in this chamber, I unequivocal support and respect for the groups, for this group, and for parents across the country who have lost their children. Their stories are all the evidence I need to know that we as a government must go further. So, Joel Sweeney's mother has been campaigning for the right for parents to have access to the children's accounts in the event of their death, to search for answers. I strongly support further amendment to the Data Bill, which will make it automatic that any instance of a sudden unexplained child's death, often be notified to meet, -- Off, be notified immediately, and go on online platforms, to freeze the child's accounts for the nation, this will protect against any other parents having to go through the awful process Ellen has had to endure to try and find answers.
And on Ellen's case and many cases for bereaved families, yours the platforms being contacted by them to please engage. And adhere to their requests for the children's data. These people have lost their children, do the decent thing and help them find answers. I will give way.
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My honourable friend and I were both present at an event for bereaved parents, organised by my honourable friend for Whitehaven and honourable friend for Whitehaven and Workington. Where a number of the social media companies were present, the children had taken their lives and been very active and platforms used by those companies. I wondered used by those companies. I wondered if she shed my dismay at the if she shed my dismay at the reaction of the social media companies in that room and the fact they made it very clear they did not understand the responsibility they
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understand the responsibility they held for the harm they were causing. I thank my honourable friend for that intervention, it has been a very interesting process, being part of this campaign. And I think there is a lot more to do at issue. There are other areas we must urgently take action on, from going forward with the second iteration of children's codes to make sure fundamentals are ink included, risk assessments are more dynamic and supporting these bereaved families, but to conclude, I am infinitely grateful to all of those who have supported this bill.
My honourable friend, for his incredible work, Ben Kingsley for his excellent expertise, and to my wonderful constituents in Darlington who have put me here to present them, improve their lives, and protect their children. This Christmas just gone, I was at a carol concert, a library in Darlington, a man tapped me on the -- Soldier and pointed to his child who is looking up at me and beaming outside keep going on the online safety, you're doing it for her. I am and will continue to do so and I urge our government to get on with it, and take as much action as we can, within reason.
What is reasonable within the timeframe we
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have. Thank you. Thank you, Madame Deputy Speaker. It is a pleasure to speak on behalf of His Majesty is official position on this important topic. Thank you on this important topic. Thank you for bringing me now, I am not going to speak for too long because there are so many members opposite you are are so many members opposite you are very keen to take part in this important debate. I would like to start by congratulating the honourable member opposite for Whitehaven and Workington, for Whitehaven and Workington, for bringing this bill to the House.
And all the different people, companies, all the different people, companies, charities, organisations, who he has worked with as part of this campaign to drive this forward. I do feel for him, as I knew the challenges of having bills, myself. I've never
I will use my time in this debate to talk a little bit about why I care about it, a little bit about the work that has already been done, and a little bit about how we need to go further and act now. So, a long, long time ago, I was 11 years old. And Titanic the movie was coming out, and I am sure you will all remember, it was a huge To see it, but as an 11-year-old, it was rated aged 12, my parents told me I wasn't allowed.
I love drama, history, and Leonardo DiCaprio! And I was incensed at the injustice that I was not allowed to watch it, because all of my friends were. Outrageous. I gave my parents held on the issue, I tried every persuasion technique available to me persuasion technique available to me and I still was not allowed. I still love history, drama, Leo less so, but I'm talking about this because I wasn't really upset by not being able to see the film, I was scared of being left out from my peer group.
And this is the key issue that parents bring up, in Darlington, they say to me so frequently that the pressure to give their child a smartphone when they are not sure if they are safe is overwhelming. And so, it is time for us to help them answer some of the questions they are asking. They need stronger legislation and guidance from government on what is safe for their children to do online. Should the children be allowed a phone, if so, when? Should they post pictures of them online? Should they be allowed to use the chats on games? Should they be allowed social media profiles? Should they limit their screen time? These are all questions that require answers and the parents want them from us.
Parents, as we know, will always know what is best for their children but they often disagree with their parenting styles, and that can be a cause of contention in peer groups, schools, and can be a clash of values amongst many other things. It is normal, the issue is not about parenting styles and choices, because parents United across the country, as we have heard today from everybody's contribution, that they need more action and guidance from legislators. Over the course of this campaign, I become convinced beyond reasonable doubt that more legislation is needed, that the public support that, and that Ofcom's reading of the Online Safety Act is not necessarily narrow, and the first legislations of the children code coming out are not strong enough to protect our children.
It is accepted even the strongest legislation will take time to put in and will be imperfect, so let's go further now. I want to lay out the reasons that I still support the measures posed in the original bill, by my dear and honourable friend, the member for Whitehaven and Workington. So, my first measure, should the children have phones in school? Teachers don't think so, children know they shouldn't, and evidence in schools where phones were banned have seen absence and teachers reduced, 10 sets in children go up, I have seen I started an online safety forum in Darlington with two children in year 10 from every school in town, brought them together, and ask them what the big issues were for them, they said, peer to peer bullying was above and beyond the biggest issue.
Bullying exacerbated by the use of smartphones, in and outside of school and online. Their online activity. They said to me people using their phones to film each other and send them round, attacking each other, bullying each other, it was causing a big mental health issue. So, we know, or I feel, it is hard to argue against the rationale schools should be for learning. I
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will give way. She is making an impassioned speech, did she agree with me social speech, did she agree with me social media has made bullying in some cases 24-hour was a day? It means it can happen at any point, even when a child is no longer out school.
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child is no longer out school. That is exactly the case. Being
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That is exactly the case. Being 14 is hard, being at school stuff, there has always been bullying, and it is unreasonable and unrealistic to say that we will completely to say that we will completely eradicate that as legislators. But what is happening is that children what is happening is that children used to be able to go home and be protected from what was going on at school and that is no longer the case. So, we have to do everything we can to give them some time a phones in school.
So, I do think there is no case for children to have their smartphones in schools and I think most children -- Most and I think most children -- Most teachers agree with that as well. Next, this is unnecessary, children deserve a right for anonymity throughout their childhood and the right to not have a digital footprint when they come of age. I absolutely support the age of digital consent lifting from 13 to 16, I think the sooner we do that, the better.
Addicted by design content, even arguing against this, I cannot understand and fathom how there is any argument that children should be exposed to addictive by design algorithms and content on social media. I do not know who will possibly argue that was a good idea. Our job is to protect children. I
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will. Thank you very much. I share her concern about the addictive nature of social media. She also concerned about the addictive nature of gambling type games we are seeing young children use? With loot boxes, micro-transactions, the encouragement of young people to get into this gambling mindset through into this gambling mindset through technology at the moment.
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I thank the honourable member for that intervention. I think there are a lot of changing and moving parts a lot of changing and moving parts in the online platform and in the online world and is really hard for legislators to keep up, we are already lagging way behind where we need to be, so what we need and that point I will address later on in my speech, it is a dynamic risk assessment. So, when new innovations come online and we see children using them, they would be risk assessed in real time and prevents from coming into harm.
The next point is marketing to children. Obviously, this needs to be kept in line with new societal trends to protect from being targeted from sales, it is quite clear. I stand by the original measures in the bill and I'm confident this is not the end of this campaign. The honourable friend for Whitehaven and Workington, when we first met as candidates for the Labour Party, when we were both shocked at how crosscutting children's safety online was as an issue from constituents. When he asked me to be a co-sponsor for this bill, I said I will but asked for support for the grieving family in the groups, because I had a huge amount of respect for them for so he agreed to invite him to Parliament and the argument there is a moral panic over children's online safety is so utterly offensive, that I cannot overstate how upsetting it is for people in that group and around the country who have real serious concerns about their children's safety online.
So, I want to put on record, in this chamber, I unequivocal support and respect for the groups, for this group, and for parents across the country who have lost their children. Their stories are all the evidence I need to know that we as a government must go further. So, Joel Sweeney's mother has been campaigning for the right for parents to have access to the children's accounts in the event of their death, to search for answers. I strongly support further amendment to the Data Bill, which will make it automatic that any instance of a sudden unexplained child's death, often be notified to meet, -- Off, be notified immediately, and go on online platforms, to freeze the child's accounts for the nation, this will protect against any other parents having to go through the awful process Ellen has had to endure to try and find answers.
And on Ellen's case and many cases for bereaved families, yours the platforms being contacted by them to please engage. And adhere to their requests for the children's data. These people have lost their children, do the decent thing and help them find answers. I will give way.
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My honourable friend and I were both present at an event for bereaved parents, organised by my honourable friend for Whitehaven and honourable friend for Whitehaven and Workington. Where a number of the social media companies were present, the children had taken their lives and been very active and platforms used by those companies. I wondered used by those companies. I wondered if she shed my dismay at the if she shed my dismay at the reaction of the social media companies in that room and the fact they made it very clear they did not understand the responsibility they
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understand the responsibility they held for the harm they were causing. I thank my honourable friend for that intervention, it has been a very interesting process, being part of this campaign. And I think there is a lot more to do at issue. There are other areas we must urgently take action on, from going forward with the second iteration of children's codes to make sure fundamentals are ink included, risk assessments are more dynamic and supporting these bereaved families, but to conclude, I am infinitely grateful to all of those who have supported this bill.
My honourable friend, for his incredible work, Ben Kingsley for his excellent expertise, and to my wonderful constituents in Darlington who have put me here to present them, improve their lives, and protect their children. This Christmas just gone, I was at a carol concert, a library in Darlington, a man tapped me on the -- Soldier and pointed to his child who is looking up at me and beaming outside keep going on the online safety, you're doing it for her. I am and will continue to do so and I urge our government to get on with it, and take as much action as we can, within reason.
What is reasonable within the timeframe we
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have. Thank you. Thank you, Madame Deputy Speaker. It is a pleasure to speak on behalf of His Majesty is official position on this important topic. Thank you on this important topic. Thank you for bringing me now, I am not going to speak for too long because there are so many members opposite you are are so many members opposite you are very keen to take part in this important debate. I would like to start by congratulating the honourable member opposite for Whitehaven and Workington, for Whitehaven and Workington, for bringing this bill to the House.
And all the different people, companies, all the different people, companies, charities, organisations, who he has worked with as part of this campaign to drive this forward. I do feel for him, as I knew the challenges of having bills, myself. I've never
12:27
Dr Ben Spencer MP (Runnymede and Weybridge, Conservative)
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Dr Ben Spencer MP (Runnymede and Weybridge, Conservative)
getting better as a backbencher for Parliament in the party of government and trying to use private members bill as a campaign vehicle to drive forwards change in this area. So, I hope you will forgive me for some of my comments I shall make, regarding the content of the bill before us. We can only deal bill before us. We can only deal with the bill, as we have in front of us today. The bill was only published the last few days, so my published the last few days, so my comments don't necessarily reflect the detail of the honourable members proposals which have only just been made clear.
And in a sense, this debate reminds me of Schr*dinger's cat, where references to a former bill and current bill have been made equally through speeches. So, it feels like we have a sort of debate on a bill that could have been a debate on the bill in front of us. And indeed, the honourable members speech speaks to the lack and need for further research. But equally, the bill calls for further research to take place. We have had some fantastic contributions on all sides of the House.
I would just like to note the contributions from North West Hampshire, Reigate, East Hampshire, Bridgwater, and Broxbourne, which reiterated this theme of the importance of driving forwards change in this area, and many stories shared personal declarations shared about the impact of social media and the difficulty of parenting at this difficult time. I should declare, I am also a parent, but thankfully, my children are not at the stage where they have started consuming social media in the way that I have heard other
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people talk about today. Of course. I thank the honourable member for giving way. He is making a powerful giving way. He is making a powerful point about the debate and its part point about the debate and its part in the departments -- Importance of evidence and research. Would he evidence and research. Would he agree with me we have evidence because we speak as MPs with children, having my hand here, letters from children in year five letters from children in year five and year six, and if I read briefly, and year six, and if I read briefly, they say kids will also be exposed to inappropriate content, suitable videos and pictures.
They could feel unsafe, discouraged, or exposed, and they would not be able to own a see the images again. -- Not see the images again. Does he agree in
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shielding children like this from this content? I thank him for his intervention. I'm going to resist that imitation I'm going to resist that imitation of being drawn into a discussion about research methodology in this area, and I have to tell him, I am very tempted to start to talk about the importance of serious data, quantitative data, what people are telling us, what we are seeing telling us, what we are seeing themselves, in terms of studies looking at the impact of different looking at the impact of different schools.
I will resist that. But of course, the stories we have heard course, the stories we have heard and what we hear from our constituents, and what we have heard in this debate today of what children are exposed to was absolutely horrific, I don't think anyone would disagree with that and clearly, we need to protect children from that. At the heart of this bill is the desire to drive forwards our scientific understanding of the effects on children's mental health, learning and social development of smartphones and social media.
Use. I hope there is commitment when we hear from the Minister, hopefully, to conduct a detailed review in this complex area. Where so much is at stake, but have expanded it out broader. Any analysis must take a clear right approach to the advantages and disadvantages at technological development, such as smartphone and internet access offer. The benefits to young people of increased connectivity, access to information, and even apps that manage health conditions like diabetes, when in school and away from home, which will transform the lives of children and young people.
But clearly, there is an increasing body of research demonstrating damaging effects of excessive smartphone and social media use of
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Would he agree that it is so important that in schools we move important that in schools we move towards smartphone free schools? I'd like to welcome the work in my constituency where the Head Teacher constituency where the Head Teacher of Monmouth comprehensive is pushing forward such a ban. Because grades increase by almost 2 levels where schools have banned mobile phones.
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schools have banned mobile phones. I am going to come to that a little bit later in my speech, little bit later in my speech, perhaps men's opposite will have the chance to express a view on it when the children and well-being bill comes back to report stage in a couple of weeks time. Going back to my points on research, a longitudinal study in the US of children aged between 12 and 15, adjusted for baseline mental health status, found that adolescents spending more time on social media double their risk of poor mental health outcomes.
This brings into focus the tragic recent cases of children taking their own lives after being subject to online bullying or encountering harmful material online. Clearly that weighs on all of us. During the previous government, now in opposition, this side of the House has pursued measures to make the online world a safer place for children and young people. I am proud that the previous government brought into legislation on the Online Safety Act, amongst other measures to make the online world safer.
This act requires platforms to take measures to prevent children accessing harmful and age inappropriate content, particularly content related to pornography, suicide and self-harm, serious violence and bullying. The act requires that want to remove illegal content quickly and prevent it appearing in the first place. And to use and enforce a tracking measures on platforms where contact measures on platforms where contact -- content harmful to children is published, with highly effective agent measuring technologies. Ofcom published guidance on how it expects age insurers to be put into effect, including deadlines or platforms to conduct risk assessments and put certain safety measures in place.
We expect to see further certain developments in this area. However, parents, including in my own constituency, are also rightly concerned about the addictive nature of smartphones themselves and the impact this can have on attention span and social development. According to polling from parent guide 2024, empty 3 -- 83 percent of parents felt smartphones are harmful to children and young people. Research carried out by a Policy Exchange found that schools with strict mobile phone plans achieve on average better grades.
Despite the fact that the schools in the study had a higher proportion of pupils' rule for free school meals. Earlier in the year, the shadow Minister for education wrote -- tabled an amendment to require all schools in England to ban the use of mobile phones in the school day. This was rejected by the government. I wonder how members opposite feel about that? Should the government decide in this, perhaps further to the Chief Medical Officer's review, we on this side of the House will work constructively with them to seek a practical and effective solution which enables children to continue to benefit from the opportunities offered while protecting them from harmful effects.
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I'm grateful to have the opportunity to contribute briefly, as the youngest MP, I have seen a as the youngest MP, I have seen a lot of this happening throughout my own time going through the school own time going through the school system. I have reams of positive things to say about this bill which
And in a sense, this debate reminds me of Schr*dinger's cat, where references to a former bill and current bill have been made equally through speeches. So, it feels like we have a sort of debate on a bill that could have been a debate on the bill in front of us. And indeed, the honourable members speech speaks to the lack and need for further research. But equally, the bill calls for further research to take place. We have had some fantastic contributions on all sides of the House.
I would just like to note the contributions from North West Hampshire, Reigate, East Hampshire, Bridgwater, and Broxbourne, which reiterated this theme of the importance of driving forwards change in this area, and many stories shared personal declarations shared about the impact of social media and the difficulty of parenting at this difficult time. I should declare, I am also a parent, but thankfully, my children are not at the stage where they have started consuming social media in the way that I have heard other
**** Possible New Speaker ****
people talk about today. Of course. I thank the honourable member for giving way. He is making a powerful giving way. He is making a powerful point about the debate and its part point about the debate and its part in the departments -- Importance of evidence and research. Would he evidence and research. Would he agree with me we have evidence because we speak as MPs with children, having my hand here, letters from children in year five letters from children in year five and year six, and if I read briefly, and year six, and if I read briefly, they say kids will also be exposed to inappropriate content, suitable videos and pictures.
They could feel unsafe, discouraged, or exposed, and they would not be able to own a see the images again. -- Not see the images again. Does he agree in
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shielding children like this from this content? I thank him for his intervention. I'm going to resist that imitation I'm going to resist that imitation of being drawn into a discussion about research methodology in this area, and I have to tell him, I am very tempted to start to talk about the importance of serious data, quantitative data, what people are telling us, what we are seeing telling us, what we are seeing themselves, in terms of studies looking at the impact of different looking at the impact of different schools.
I will resist that. But of course, the stories we have heard course, the stories we have heard and what we hear from our constituents, and what we have heard in this debate today of what children are exposed to was absolutely horrific, I don't think anyone would disagree with that and clearly, we need to protect children from that. At the heart of this bill is the desire to drive forwards our scientific understanding of the effects on children's mental health, learning and social development of smartphones and social media.
Use. I hope there is commitment when we hear from the Minister, hopefully, to conduct a detailed review in this complex area. Where so much is at stake, but have expanded it out broader. Any analysis must take a clear right approach to the advantages and disadvantages at technological development, such as smartphone and internet access offer. The benefits to young people of increased connectivity, access to information, and even apps that manage health conditions like diabetes, when in school and away from home, which will transform the lives of children and young people.
But clearly, there is an increasing body of research demonstrating damaging effects of excessive smartphone and social media use of
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Would he agree that it is so important that in schools we move important that in schools we move towards smartphone free schools? I'd like to welcome the work in my constituency where the Head Teacher constituency where the Head Teacher of Monmouth comprehensive is pushing forward such a ban. Because grades increase by almost 2 levels where schools have banned mobile phones.
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schools have banned mobile phones. I am going to come to that a little bit later in my speech, little bit later in my speech, perhaps men's opposite will have the chance to express a view on it when the children and well-being bill comes back to report stage in a couple of weeks time. Going back to my points on research, a longitudinal study in the US of children aged between 12 and 15, adjusted for baseline mental health status, found that adolescents spending more time on social media double their risk of poor mental health outcomes.
This brings into focus the tragic recent cases of children taking their own lives after being subject to online bullying or encountering harmful material online. Clearly that weighs on all of us. During the previous government, now in opposition, this side of the House has pursued measures to make the online world a safer place for children and young people. I am proud that the previous government brought into legislation on the Online Safety Act, amongst other measures to make the online world safer.
This act requires platforms to take measures to prevent children accessing harmful and age inappropriate content, particularly content related to pornography, suicide and self-harm, serious violence and bullying. The act requires that want to remove illegal content quickly and prevent it appearing in the first place. And to use and enforce a tracking measures on platforms where contact measures on platforms where contact -- content harmful to children is published, with highly effective agent measuring technologies. Ofcom published guidance on how it expects age insurers to be put into effect, including deadlines or platforms to conduct risk assessments and put certain safety measures in place.
We expect to see further certain developments in this area. However, parents, including in my own constituency, are also rightly concerned about the addictive nature of smartphones themselves and the impact this can have on attention span and social development. According to polling from parent guide 2024, empty 3 -- 83 percent of parents felt smartphones are harmful to children and young people. Research carried out by a Policy Exchange found that schools with strict mobile phone plans achieve on average better grades.
Despite the fact that the schools in the study had a higher proportion of pupils' rule for free school meals. Earlier in the year, the shadow Minister for education wrote -- tabled an amendment to require all schools in England to ban the use of mobile phones in the school day. This was rejected by the government. I wonder how members opposite feel about that? Should the government decide in this, perhaps further to the Chief Medical Officer's review, we on this side of the House will work constructively with them to seek a practical and effective solution which enables children to continue to benefit from the opportunities offered while protecting them from harmful effects.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I'm grateful to have the opportunity to contribute briefly, as the youngest MP, I have seen a as the youngest MP, I have seen a lot of this happening throughout my own time going through the school own time going through the school system. I have reams of positive things to say about this bill which
12:35
Sam Carling MP (North West Cambridgeshire, Labour)
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Sam Carling MP (North West Cambridgeshire, Labour)
I will not have time to say, so I say briefly I welcome it hugely. There are a couple of points I want to focus on the have not been covered so much around the debate. Around the benefits that some social media can bring, and what I would argue, the need for us to be careful in regulating in the right way to make sure you do not lose some of those, or we are able to bring them in in other forms. Article 16 of the United Nations convention rights of the child talks about children's rights to privacy.
We have, in my view, to strike a balance between parents ability to know what their children are doing online and who they are speaking to, which is important for safeguarding, with the need for young people to have access to private spaces sometimes. The example I have in mind is one of LGBT people, young people, and families who are not accepting of them. When someone in that situation is starting to understand their sexuality, which often happens at the age were talking about, 13 to 16, sometimes being able to find people in online communities going through similar experiences provides a support network they otherwise would not have.
I was lucky that I went to a mainstream school. Lots are not and are kept in secluded environment and have little contact with the outside world. Having an ability to find support outside can be valuable in that. The emphasis has to be on social media companies to up their game enormously in how they regulate online spaces. So much is going under the radar and has to be addressed in terms of safeguarding. There are certain apps out there aimed at young people between 13 to 17 which portray themselves as forums to make friends around the world, meet friends around the world.
They do it based on swiping left and right on profiles based on photos or interests. Which sounds a lot like dating apps. Some of these apps are being used for that purpose by young people. It is alarming and something we have to get on top of. Is made more severe by the fact that some of them can act with people who are having a significant age difference to them. It is very unacceptable and flying under the radar. There are significant issues in this space to do with social media for young people.
I welcome this bill and bringing forward opportunities for us to get to the research and look
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how we can address that. When I was growing up, we were first becoming aware of the digital
We have, in my view, to strike a balance between parents ability to know what their children are doing online and who they are speaking to, which is important for safeguarding, with the need for young people to have access to private spaces sometimes. The example I have in mind is one of LGBT people, young people, and families who are not accepting of them. When someone in that situation is starting to understand their sexuality, which often happens at the age were talking about, 13 to 16, sometimes being able to find people in online communities going through similar experiences provides a support network they otherwise would not have.
I was lucky that I went to a mainstream school. Lots are not and are kept in secluded environment and have little contact with the outside world. Having an ability to find support outside can be valuable in that. The emphasis has to be on social media companies to up their game enormously in how they regulate online spaces. So much is going under the radar and has to be addressed in terms of safeguarding. There are certain apps out there aimed at young people between 13 to 17 which portray themselves as forums to make friends around the world, meet friends around the world.
They do it based on swiping left and right on profiles based on photos or interests. Which sounds a lot like dating apps. Some of these apps are being used for that purpose by young people. It is alarming and something we have to get on top of. Is made more severe by the fact that some of them can act with people who are having a significant age difference to them. It is very unacceptable and flying under the radar. There are significant issues in this space to do with social media for young people.
I welcome this bill and bringing forward opportunities for us to get to the research and look
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how we can address that. When I was growing up, we were first becoming aware of the digital
12:38
Freddie van Mierlo MP (Henley and Thame, Liberal Democrat)
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Freddie van Mierlo MP (Henley and Thame, Liberal Democrat)
first becoming aware of the digital world, coming home from school I would log into MSN messenger, check my stage -- MySpace, carefully arrange their 10 top friends on that platform and check out online games. Now these were as addictive as possible, social media is a place for online bullying and predators to hide. I got my first phone at 13 but the most advanced technology on it was an FM radio. Today, phones are not phones, they are supercomputers in our pockets.
No parent wants their child to be left out. Once the first child in a class gets a phone, the floodgates opened. We need to give schools and parents the tools to overcome this collective action
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problem. I'm grateful to him for giving way. On schools, will he join me in congratulating the boys school in my constituency which was the first school in the country to replace smartphones with brick phones and has seen pupils more engaged, better has seen pupils more engaged, better social interactions and improved classroom behaviour. Does he agree they set an example for our country to follow? to follow? Join him in congratulating that school. Today we have seen a tragedy of the Commons, with weakening of this legislation we could not overcome the collective action problem even in this chamber to deliver tougher regulation.
We need a tougher regulation to stop the misuse of technology and keep the next generation safe. Not reviews and promised to plan research. I'm happy to see other members of the House contribute to the conversation today, but I note that Reforming -- reform have not decided to grace us with their presence. They care so much about our children, they would be here. I learned about roadblocks that enable anyone to open a conversation with another user of a game. I have heard how even Spotify can be used to share explicit images and conduct online grooming.
I talked to parents who were distraught their children were groomed by predators over social media, but when reported to the police of the crime, were told there is nothing that can be done because of a virtual private network being used. -- technology is evolving and we must keep on top of its developments. Parents must be informed of the risks to children using social media. Social media companies are using -- making huge profits on this activity. Including introducing a social media levy to increase tax on these companies is an obvious choice.
Tax collected from here can then be used to support children to fund mental health services. Social media is causing a detrimental impact on child well-being, the least of which we can do is use profits to mitigate some of the damage. Secondly, digital age of consent must be increased to 16. 13 is too young for a child to consent to the collection of processing and storing of their data. This would not ban children from under 16 from using social media, but to make social media companies make the platforms safer and child friendly for children under 16.
I have a 14 month old daughter but already she is being targeted by shows that seek to manipulate babies brains and avoid losing their attention during those shows. It shows how pernicious this online space has become. I fear what the online space will look like in 10 years time. As a father, we must act...
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I appreciate you giving way. May I just urge us all, as we sit here, I feel like this point has not come I feel like this point has not come across and I would ask if you agree with me, that we all meet, in our constituencies, the most incredible young people every day. We must
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young people every day. We must congratulate young people for the amazing things they do. Inventions -- interventions must
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Inventions -- interventions must be very short at this point. Please
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be very short at this point. Please do not refer to each other as 'you.' I join her in congratulating young people and their work. We must young people and their work. We must act now to reduce the harm to current generations of children and say we must never again expose
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future generations to those harms. In the brief time available, I
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In the brief time available, I want to reinforce what my tribute to the honourable friend for Whitehaven and Workington for his excellent
No parent wants their child to be left out. Once the first child in a class gets a phone, the floodgates opened. We need to give schools and parents the tools to overcome this collective action
**** Possible New Speaker ****
problem. I'm grateful to him for giving way. On schools, will he join me in congratulating the boys school in my constituency which was the first school in the country to replace smartphones with brick phones and has seen pupils more engaged, better has seen pupils more engaged, better social interactions and improved classroom behaviour. Does he agree they set an example for our country to follow? to follow? Join him in congratulating that school. Today we have seen a tragedy of the Commons, with weakening of this legislation we could not overcome the collective action problem even in this chamber to deliver tougher regulation.
We need a tougher regulation to stop the misuse of technology and keep the next generation safe. Not reviews and promised to plan research. I'm happy to see other members of the House contribute to the conversation today, but I note that Reforming -- reform have not decided to grace us with their presence. They care so much about our children, they would be here. I learned about roadblocks that enable anyone to open a conversation with another user of a game. I have heard how even Spotify can be used to share explicit images and conduct online grooming.
I talked to parents who were distraught their children were groomed by predators over social media, but when reported to the police of the crime, were told there is nothing that can be done because of a virtual private network being used. -- technology is evolving and we must keep on top of its developments. Parents must be informed of the risks to children using social media. Social media companies are using -- making huge profits on this activity. Including introducing a social media levy to increase tax on these companies is an obvious choice.
Tax collected from here can then be used to support children to fund mental health services. Social media is causing a detrimental impact on child well-being, the least of which we can do is use profits to mitigate some of the damage. Secondly, digital age of consent must be increased to 16. 13 is too young for a child to consent to the collection of processing and storing of their data. This would not ban children from under 16 from using social media, but to make social media companies make the platforms safer and child friendly for children under 16.
I have a 14 month old daughter but already she is being targeted by shows that seek to manipulate babies brains and avoid losing their attention during those shows. It shows how pernicious this online space has become. I fear what the online space will look like in 10 years time. As a father, we must act...
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I appreciate you giving way. May I just urge us all, as we sit here, I feel like this point has not come I feel like this point has not come across and I would ask if you agree with me, that we all meet, in our constituencies, the most incredible young people every day. We must
**** Possible New Speaker ****
young people every day. We must congratulate young people for the amazing things they do. Inventions -- interventions must
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Inventions -- interventions must be very short at this point. Please
**** Possible New Speaker ****
be very short at this point. Please do not refer to each other as 'you.' I join her in congratulating young people and their work. We must young people and their work. We must act now to reduce the harm to current generations of children and say we must never again expose
**** Possible New Speaker ****
future generations to those harms. In the brief time available, I
**** Possible New Speaker ****
In the brief time available, I want to reinforce what my tribute to the honourable friend for Whitehaven and Workington for his excellent
12:43
Joe Powell MP (Kensington and Bayswater, Labour)
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Joe Powell MP (Kensington and Bayswater, Labour)
and Workington for his excellent work in needing this bill, which I have been proud to co-sponsor. In hearings in recent months, it has been eye-opening to see face to face parents with tech regulators and others, you have either been unwilling or unable to act in tackling this head on. I want to pass on to messages in the time I have. Doctor Shockley when she said, amongst her peers, a paediatrician peers, the impact of excessive news and social media on children is now the single main health concern they have, not pollution, not smoking, not diet.
It is this issue we debated today that most worries paediatricians today. While there will always be calls for more evidence, more causality and so on and so forth, it is time that we flip that narrative. We should challenge those that want to go slow on this decision to come up with any alternative plans. We know that next week in this House we will be discussing the huge rise in incapacity benefit, including people with mental health challenges. If you want to tackle that issue, we have to tackle group causes like the one we are discussing today.
It will not only fail our children, but our future prosperity is. The story of hope, a Head Teacher, head teacher of the year recently, when he saw what happened post-Covid with the toxic combination of isolation and smartphone addiction, he extended the school day, made it 12 hours. Voluntary 12 hours school day with breakfast at 7 AM, the evening study classes, cooking, extracurricular activities supervised in the evening and managed to break that cycle. That is pioneering head but I want that for every child in the country, not just those students.
The final word is to my constituent who has been here washing all day, she said to me, you are going back to check a message but certainly you have fallen into the black hole of YouTube videos, and the schooling. Next thing you know, two hours have passed and you have done nothing productive. Is this truly the future for our children? Will we look back and regret it? Young people want control over their screens, not the other way around. And they need our
**** Possible New Speaker ****
help to make that happen now. I will run through some
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I will run through some Then run through some specific
It is this issue we debated today that most worries paediatricians today. While there will always be calls for more evidence, more causality and so on and so forth, it is time that we flip that narrative. We should challenge those that want to go slow on this decision to come up with any alternative plans. We know that next week in this House we will be discussing the huge rise in incapacity benefit, including people with mental health challenges. If you want to tackle that issue, we have to tackle group causes like the one we are discussing today.
It will not only fail our children, but our future prosperity is. The story of hope, a Head Teacher, head teacher of the year recently, when he saw what happened post-Covid with the toxic combination of isolation and smartphone addiction, he extended the school day, made it 12 hours. Voluntary 12 hours school day with breakfast at 7 AM, the evening study classes, cooking, extracurricular activities supervised in the evening and managed to break that cycle. That is pioneering head but I want that for every child in the country, not just those students.
The final word is to my constituent who has been here washing all day, she said to me, you are going back to check a message but certainly you have fallen into the black hole of YouTube videos, and the schooling. Next thing you know, two hours have passed and you have done nothing productive. Is this truly the future for our children? Will we look back and regret it? Young people want control over their screens, not the other way around. And they need our
**** Possible New Speaker ****
help to make that happen now. I will run through some
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I will run through some Then run through some specific
12:45
Chris Bryant MP, Minister of State (Department for Science, Innovation and Technology) (Rhondda and Ogmore, Labour)
-
-
Chris Bryant MP, Minister of State (Department for Science, Innovation and Technology) (Rhondda and Ogmore, Labour)
Then run through some specific points being made. First of all, I have the unanimous vote of the House for praising my honourable friend, the number for Whitehaven and Workington. I was worried he was called a patron saint earlier, because they tend to be martyred at some point in their career! I don't wish that for him. I'm not going to make any arguments, as I said earlier, I am not going to make any of the arguments he told me not to make, because I do not prescribe to them.
And also, I'm not going to make any arguments today against action. I think that is an important point the health needs to recognise. But everybody accepts action is inevitable in this sphere. The honourable member, my honourable friend, gave us some shocking statistics from her own constituency, and many others have today. The honourable member for Reigate who I'm afraid is not in her place at the moment, but she said... Sorry, I missed her, wouldn't want to mislead the House.
She fessed up basically to her own social media usage but didn't tell us how many hours a day it is, so we were watching her throughout the -- The debate, to see how much time she was spending on social media, but it is true, many of us are just as addicted as many young people, and whilst our specific concerns about children, and the mental health effects, course, there are issues through the whole of society, not least some of the other members referring to misinformation, and how that has propagated and how you access good reliable information, in the world, which is profoundly chaotic and where algorithms do not necessarily subscribe to truth, in the way that previous understandings of the media used to.
Then there are issues for the whole of society. And I note that she said the data must step in. We will hold that in many occasions in the future. My honourable friend for Lowestoft made some points about how sometimes it is the most vulnerable children we are talking about, because the effect can be on the most vulnerable children. She also pointed, as several others did, to the desensitising effect of boys in particular, seem particular versions of sex online, which feels like it normalises a set of expectations of what a relationship with another person might be and what sex might involve, that is wholly alien, I think, to most people's understanding of what that should be.
My honourable friend for Beckenham and Penge made the point made in the previous debate that we had about this, in Westminster Hall, about the question of the burden of proof, and whether the burden of proof lies with those trying to prove there is no harm, or with those who are trying to prove there is harm. I will in one moment. I think it is important that we look at the evidence in the round and become a coherent sensible one government decisions and how we can progress in this field.
Of course, I
**** Possible New Speaker ****
give way to my honourable friend. I thank the Minister for giving way for top does he agree with a way for top does he agree with a wiser person than me that said our psychology is a neolithic, our institutions are from the Middle Ages, and our technology is off Ages, and our technology is off today and we have got to get better at being able to engage with it?
**** Possible New Speaker ****
at being able to engage with it? I think it was John Prescott who said something about each and values in a modern setting or something like that. And I think that is what like that. And I think that is what we need to secure. Which is the liberty of the individual, at the same time as the protection of the vulnerable. And that is precisely vulnerable. And that is precisely what we need to be able to adopt, as we move forward. My honourable friend from Leeds North West made the point she has had twice as much correspondence on the subject as any correspondence on the subject as any other this year.
I'd made what I think is really important point which does not only apply to this, but many other areas where we work with young people. Which is, it is very important, if we possibly can, to be able to extend the years of childhood that a child gets to enjoy. Many years ago, I wrote a report about teenage pregnancy in my own constituency, and that is another aspect of trying to make sure that where children delay their first sexual experiences, is almost certainly better for them, and leads to better personal, social and better outcomes.
The number four Derbyshire Dales made the point about children attending A&E with psychiatric conditions. I would urge him just to be slightly cautious about the statistics here. It was the work I have done on required brain injuries would suggest sometimes people are actually presenting with a brain injury, rather than with a psychiatric condition. And that is one of the areas where I think we need to be much more intelligent about how we get data that informs our research.
My honourable friend... I will in one moment. It is such a delight to go is says Wharton, must be a considerable Member of Parliament,
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no, it is not. I give way to my honourable friend. I thank the Minister for giving
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I thank the Minister for giving way. Just to say, in my constituency way. Just to say, in my constituency and across my area, we have a real problem with violence and aggression in schools. Every week for the last in schools. Every week for the last month, there is a violent attack, children on children, at almost every occasion, is filmed and shared every occasion, is filmed and shared on social media and amplified and I wonder if he agrees with me, therefore, is a real reason why we
**** Possible New Speaker ****
need action. She makes an extreme legal point of the use of a mobile phone, as another form of aggression, it is a very disturbing part of the trend we have seen. And indeed, she is quite right that we need to consider action in that field. The point I was going to make up a number for Eastern and Wharton, she said the following words, she referred to services that are inherently addictive by design, I think there is a conviction of terms in there.
They are inherently addictive, they are addictive by design. I think those are two quite different things. And what we should strive to things. And what we should strive to achieve this by all of, that no services provided for children of addictive by design and that is precisely 1 of the things the government is determined about. I should say incidentally to the right honourable member for North West Hampshire, should say earlier, had no meetings, or indicated by doing a zero with my fingers, that I had had no meeting with tech.
That is not quite true, I had meetings a few months ago with Baroness Jones with TikTok, although I have to say, I expressed, strongly as many members have had in the bait today -- In the debate today, the kind of views they have in relation to the operation of TikTok. It is not that I have been convinced by TikTok, if anything, we were trying to be putting the argument to them about the need for responsible activity in this field.
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Of course. I am grateful to the Minister for that clarification. In his negotiations with the number for negotiations with the number for Workington, he would have taken direction and consulted with Number direction and consulted with Number Ten. One of the concerns is that given that he has instituted an given that he has instituted an investigation in the impact of UK legislation on American tech firms, that President Trump might be upset if we were to take these kind of steps.
How much of that has been a consideration in him effectively for letting this bill?
**** Possible New Speaker ****
He is beginning to subscribe to conspiracy theories. I have had no role in any negotiating with the honourable member. No with Downing honourable member. No with Downing Street on these matters. And I have not taken into consideration not taken into consideration anything in relation to what Donald Trump might or might not think in Trump might or might not think in this field. Madame Deputy Speaker, my honourable friend 40 B Barton my honourable friend 40 B Barton said he is 32, which is very difficult to believe, but he difficult to believe, but he referred to smartphones in 2007.
But 3G was launched in 2001, and I am slightly conscious that when I was at school, the only thing we were rallying about was whether we were allowed to take electronic calculators into O-level maths exams. I sometimes feel a little kind of out of my depth with these young expenses of interest. I bet
**** Possible New Speaker ****
you it is not a point of order. It is a point of order. Chair, I
**** Possible New Speaker ****
It is a point of order. Chair, I wonder if you could give us guidance as to whether we have the correct as to whether we have the correct Minister responding to this bill. If there were negotiations, which they're obviously well with the they're obviously well with the honourable gentleman about the bill, one would expect the Minister who conducted those negotiations and
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therefore was able to speak to the decisions being made, to appear at the Dispatch Box. Have we got the right person? I thank the honourable gentleman
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I thank the honourable gentleman for his point of order, however, that is not a matter for the Chair, it is entirely up to the government
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which Minister may put up to speak. I'm afraid you will have to put up with me, Madame Deputy Speaker. My honourable friend for Darlington My honourable friend for Darlington referred to the issue one of the referred to the issue one of the fear of missing out, this is such a potent aspect of many young people's lives. It had its previous version lives. It had its previous version before digital arrived. But it is so much more acute now." In so many different ways at the same time.
She also referred to Ellen and the issues in the Data Bill, which we will be discussing in the Bill committee next Tuesday and Thursday. committee next Tuesday and Thursday. And back in a small stage -- In the report stage of the House and until then. My noble -- My honourable friend for Cambridge, he made a point about, which I'm conscious of myself, which is one of the positive effects that social media can introduce, which was not available to me when I was trying to work out whether I was a gay man at the age of 15 or 16, is there is a diaspora, there are the world's where there are people who are a bit more like me.
And that is a leasing thing for many young people. So, being able to kind of harness what is good in social media, and lose what is bad is the key task for us. Madame Deputy Speaker, nothing could matter more than the mental, physical and spiritual health of young people. There are many aspects that are health. Addiction in its many forms, alcohol, drugs, gambling, and I would argue as many others have today, smartphone use. Harmful messages about body image, violent and risky sex, radicalisation, bullying, self-confidence, taking one's own life, all of these are part of that.
Physical health is of course part of mental and spiritual health. Getting out and about, as many have referred to, eye to eye contact, brain development, all of these things matter. Unless be absolutely clear -- And let's be absolutely clear, excessive smartphone usage is engaged in all these assets of mental and spiritual and, I would argue, physical ill health. Algorithms can be set to increase addictive strolling. Apps with weak age verification processes expose children to completely inappropriate material. The business model for some tech companies is not always conducive to children's health.
We also have to consider the benefits of limited rather than excessive use of smartphones. A lot of modern life is of course accessed online, including home work. Social media can gather diaspora, but that as well can be a minefield. If honourable members have not seen the film Under the Volcano which is a Polish film about a young Ukrainian family, just at the point of the second invasion of Ukraine, by Putin three years ago, stuck in Tenerife, they should watch it, because the children there are absolutely terrified by what social media is going to tell them about what is happening back at their own home.
I am also conscious that for some neurodiverse youngsters, social media is absolutely vital means of ensuring their health. We fully recognise the difficulties facing parents, teachers and youth workers, adjudicating rows, as has often been referred to, and of course, teachers know they are only part of a Charles life-20% of their -- Only part of a child's life for 20% of their time. So, expectations on parents are just as important as anything else. I fully recognise the complaint for many young people that I hear regularly come in my own constituency, there is nothing else to do around here.
100 years ago, in every one of our constituencies, there would have been youth clubs, Scouts, guides, there would have been lots of different organisations specifically catered for young people to do active things out of the home. Many of those things barely exist today and live part of Lipitor, Madame Deputy Speaker, of what we need to do, will, and are doing. The Online Safety Act, it is called the Online Safety Act 2023, I only wish it had been the Online Safety Act 2023 or 2021 or 2022, it was far too delayed.
It is extremely frustrating for us as ministers at the moment, but this has taken so long to get to this point. We are working with Ofcom to implement every element of it as fast as we possibly can, but some elements that are written into the act itself. The Secretary of State wrote to Ofcom on 16 October last year, and to that effect, that we need to implemented a thing as fast as we possibly can, whilst taking on board the criticisms that some have made of Ofcom.
We also believe, of course, the illegal content codes have now passed parliamentary scrutiny and will come into force this month. I hope that will produce some change. The draft children's safety codes which have been referred to are nearly finalised and the child safety regime will be in effect by summer. That is good news, and of course the Online Safety Act itself, section 178, it says it must be reviewed. Also, the Department for Science, Innovation and Technology has launched a feasibility study.
Which is into the impact of smartphones and social media use. That will report in May of this year, is being run by the University of Cambridge and a consortium of experts. The bill, we hope, that has been published today by my honourable friend, will help us build on that feasibility study, so we have all the information we need to make a considered view. We will work with this, on this, in roughly the same timetable provided in the bill today. And the closer we can get to causal and direct relationship, between smartphone usage and mental health issues, to clear evidence on the best, most effective and most appropriate and proportionate intervention by government, the better.
Just in relation to the Data Bill because there are further things we are introducing there, there are new requirements on information society services which are likely to be accessed by children, so that they can be protected and supported, when they are designing their processing activities. Clause 91, clause 124 and a close 81, I think significant The bill makes recommendations on what we intend to do and are helpful in that direction. We want the Online Safety Act to bed in. We want to implement the data bill and the new provisions.
We want to conduct thorough, more authoritatively research and provide clear advice to teachers and parents across the land. It is not the end of the matter. I will be amazed if there is not further legislation in this area in coming years. With that, I commend the campaigners who have made such a strong case to us and via my honourable friend. I will end with the words from my honourable friend for Kensington and Bayswater, the words of the paediatrician he referred to are ringing in my mind.
There is no option of inaction for this House all for this country. There has to be action. I'm grateful for the honourable member introducing the bill today.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I beg to move the debate be now adjourned. The question is the debate be now
**** Possible New Speaker ****
The question is the debate be now adjourned. As many as are of that opinion, say, "Aye." Of the contrary, "No." The ayes have it.
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Debate to be resumed what day? 11th of July.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
11th of July. 11th of July. I will now give a few moments for the Front Benchers
And also, I'm not going to make any arguments today against action. I think that is an important point the health needs to recognise. But everybody accepts action is inevitable in this sphere. The honourable member, my honourable friend, gave us some shocking statistics from her own constituency, and many others have today. The honourable member for Reigate who I'm afraid is not in her place at the moment, but she said... Sorry, I missed her, wouldn't want to mislead the House.
She fessed up basically to her own social media usage but didn't tell us how many hours a day it is, so we were watching her throughout the -- The debate, to see how much time she was spending on social media, but it is true, many of us are just as addicted as many young people, and whilst our specific concerns about children, and the mental health effects, course, there are issues through the whole of society, not least some of the other members referring to misinformation, and how that has propagated and how you access good reliable information, in the world, which is profoundly chaotic and where algorithms do not necessarily subscribe to truth, in the way that previous understandings of the media used to.
Then there are issues for the whole of society. And I note that she said the data must step in. We will hold that in many occasions in the future. My honourable friend for Lowestoft made some points about how sometimes it is the most vulnerable children we are talking about, because the effect can be on the most vulnerable children. She also pointed, as several others did, to the desensitising effect of boys in particular, seem particular versions of sex online, which feels like it normalises a set of expectations of what a relationship with another person might be and what sex might involve, that is wholly alien, I think, to most people's understanding of what that should be.
My honourable friend for Beckenham and Penge made the point made in the previous debate that we had about this, in Westminster Hall, about the question of the burden of proof, and whether the burden of proof lies with those trying to prove there is no harm, or with those who are trying to prove there is harm. I will in one moment. I think it is important that we look at the evidence in the round and become a coherent sensible one government decisions and how we can progress in this field.
Of course, I
**** Possible New Speaker ****
give way to my honourable friend. I thank the Minister for giving way for top does he agree with a way for top does he agree with a wiser person than me that said our psychology is a neolithic, our institutions are from the Middle Ages, and our technology is off Ages, and our technology is off today and we have got to get better at being able to engage with it?
**** Possible New Speaker ****
at being able to engage with it? I think it was John Prescott who said something about each and values in a modern setting or something like that. And I think that is what like that. And I think that is what we need to secure. Which is the liberty of the individual, at the same time as the protection of the vulnerable. And that is precisely vulnerable. And that is precisely what we need to be able to adopt, as we move forward. My honourable friend from Leeds North West made the point she has had twice as much correspondence on the subject as any correspondence on the subject as any other this year.
I'd made what I think is really important point which does not only apply to this, but many other areas where we work with young people. Which is, it is very important, if we possibly can, to be able to extend the years of childhood that a child gets to enjoy. Many years ago, I wrote a report about teenage pregnancy in my own constituency, and that is another aspect of trying to make sure that where children delay their first sexual experiences, is almost certainly better for them, and leads to better personal, social and better outcomes.
The number four Derbyshire Dales made the point about children attending A&E with psychiatric conditions. I would urge him just to be slightly cautious about the statistics here. It was the work I have done on required brain injuries would suggest sometimes people are actually presenting with a brain injury, rather than with a psychiatric condition. And that is one of the areas where I think we need to be much more intelligent about how we get data that informs our research.
My honourable friend... I will in one moment. It is such a delight to go is says Wharton, must be a considerable Member of Parliament,
**** Possible New Speaker ****
no, it is not. I give way to my honourable friend. I thank the Minister for giving
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I thank the Minister for giving way. Just to say, in my constituency way. Just to say, in my constituency and across my area, we have a real problem with violence and aggression in schools. Every week for the last in schools. Every week for the last month, there is a violent attack, children on children, at almost every occasion, is filmed and shared every occasion, is filmed and shared on social media and amplified and I wonder if he agrees with me, therefore, is a real reason why we
**** Possible New Speaker ****
need action. She makes an extreme legal point of the use of a mobile phone, as another form of aggression, it is a very disturbing part of the trend we have seen. And indeed, she is quite right that we need to consider action in that field. The point I was going to make up a number for Eastern and Wharton, she said the following words, she referred to services that are inherently addictive by design, I think there is a conviction of terms in there.
They are inherently addictive, they are addictive by design. I think those are two quite different things. And what we should strive to things. And what we should strive to achieve this by all of, that no services provided for children of addictive by design and that is precisely 1 of the things the government is determined about. I should say incidentally to the right honourable member for North West Hampshire, should say earlier, had no meetings, or indicated by doing a zero with my fingers, that I had had no meeting with tech.
That is not quite true, I had meetings a few months ago with Baroness Jones with TikTok, although I have to say, I expressed, strongly as many members have had in the bait today -- In the debate today, the kind of views they have in relation to the operation of TikTok. It is not that I have been convinced by TikTok, if anything, we were trying to be putting the argument to them about the need for responsible activity in this field.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Of course. I am grateful to the Minister for that clarification. In his negotiations with the number for negotiations with the number for Workington, he would have taken direction and consulted with Number direction and consulted with Number Ten. One of the concerns is that given that he has instituted an given that he has instituted an investigation in the impact of UK legislation on American tech firms, that President Trump might be upset if we were to take these kind of steps.
How much of that has been a consideration in him effectively for letting this bill?
**** Possible New Speaker ****
He is beginning to subscribe to conspiracy theories. I have had no role in any negotiating with the honourable member. No with Downing honourable member. No with Downing Street on these matters. And I have not taken into consideration not taken into consideration anything in relation to what Donald Trump might or might not think in Trump might or might not think in this field. Madame Deputy Speaker, my honourable friend 40 B Barton my honourable friend 40 B Barton said he is 32, which is very difficult to believe, but he difficult to believe, but he referred to smartphones in 2007.
But 3G was launched in 2001, and I am slightly conscious that when I was at school, the only thing we were rallying about was whether we were allowed to take electronic calculators into O-level maths exams. I sometimes feel a little kind of out of my depth with these young expenses of interest. I bet
**** Possible New Speaker ****
you it is not a point of order. It is a point of order. Chair, I
**** Possible New Speaker ****
It is a point of order. Chair, I wonder if you could give us guidance as to whether we have the correct as to whether we have the correct Minister responding to this bill. If there were negotiations, which they're obviously well with the they're obviously well with the honourable gentleman about the bill, one would expect the Minister who conducted those negotiations and
**** Possible New Speaker ****
therefore was able to speak to the decisions being made, to appear at the Dispatch Box. Have we got the right person? I thank the honourable gentleman
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I thank the honourable gentleman for his point of order, however, that is not a matter for the Chair, it is entirely up to the government
**** Possible New Speaker ****
which Minister may put up to speak. I'm afraid you will have to put up with me, Madame Deputy Speaker. My honourable friend for Darlington My honourable friend for Darlington referred to the issue one of the referred to the issue one of the fear of missing out, this is such a potent aspect of many young people's lives. It had its previous version lives. It had its previous version before digital arrived. But it is so much more acute now." In so many different ways at the same time.
She also referred to Ellen and the issues in the Data Bill, which we will be discussing in the Bill committee next Tuesday and Thursday. committee next Tuesday and Thursday. And back in a small stage -- In the report stage of the House and until then. My noble -- My honourable friend for Cambridge, he made a point about, which I'm conscious of myself, which is one of the positive effects that social media can introduce, which was not available to me when I was trying to work out whether I was a gay man at the age of 15 or 16, is there is a diaspora, there are the world's where there are people who are a bit more like me.
And that is a leasing thing for many young people. So, being able to kind of harness what is good in social media, and lose what is bad is the key task for us. Madame Deputy Speaker, nothing could matter more than the mental, physical and spiritual health of young people. There are many aspects that are health. Addiction in its many forms, alcohol, drugs, gambling, and I would argue as many others have today, smartphone use. Harmful messages about body image, violent and risky sex, radicalisation, bullying, self-confidence, taking one's own life, all of these are part of that.
Physical health is of course part of mental and spiritual health. Getting out and about, as many have referred to, eye to eye contact, brain development, all of these things matter. Unless be absolutely clear -- And let's be absolutely clear, excessive smartphone usage is engaged in all these assets of mental and spiritual and, I would argue, physical ill health. Algorithms can be set to increase addictive strolling. Apps with weak age verification processes expose children to completely inappropriate material. The business model for some tech companies is not always conducive to children's health.
We also have to consider the benefits of limited rather than excessive use of smartphones. A lot of modern life is of course accessed online, including home work. Social media can gather diaspora, but that as well can be a minefield. If honourable members have not seen the film Under the Volcano which is a Polish film about a young Ukrainian family, just at the point of the second invasion of Ukraine, by Putin three years ago, stuck in Tenerife, they should watch it, because the children there are absolutely terrified by what social media is going to tell them about what is happening back at their own home.
I am also conscious that for some neurodiverse youngsters, social media is absolutely vital means of ensuring their health. We fully recognise the difficulties facing parents, teachers and youth workers, adjudicating rows, as has often been referred to, and of course, teachers know they are only part of a Charles life-20% of their -- Only part of a child's life for 20% of their time. So, expectations on parents are just as important as anything else. I fully recognise the complaint for many young people that I hear regularly come in my own constituency, there is nothing else to do around here.
100 years ago, in every one of our constituencies, there would have been youth clubs, Scouts, guides, there would have been lots of different organisations specifically catered for young people to do active things out of the home. Many of those things barely exist today and live part of Lipitor, Madame Deputy Speaker, of what we need to do, will, and are doing. The Online Safety Act, it is called the Online Safety Act 2023, I only wish it had been the Online Safety Act 2023 or 2021 or 2022, it was far too delayed.
It is extremely frustrating for us as ministers at the moment, but this has taken so long to get to this point. We are working with Ofcom to implement every element of it as fast as we possibly can, but some elements that are written into the act itself. The Secretary of State wrote to Ofcom on 16 October last year, and to that effect, that we need to implemented a thing as fast as we possibly can, whilst taking on board the criticisms that some have made of Ofcom.
We also believe, of course, the illegal content codes have now passed parliamentary scrutiny and will come into force this month. I hope that will produce some change. The draft children's safety codes which have been referred to are nearly finalised and the child safety regime will be in effect by summer. That is good news, and of course the Online Safety Act itself, section 178, it says it must be reviewed. Also, the Department for Science, Innovation and Technology has launched a feasibility study.
Which is into the impact of smartphones and social media use. That will report in May of this year, is being run by the University of Cambridge and a consortium of experts. The bill, we hope, that has been published today by my honourable friend, will help us build on that feasibility study, so we have all the information we need to make a considered view. We will work with this, on this, in roughly the same timetable provided in the bill today. And the closer we can get to causal and direct relationship, between smartphone usage and mental health issues, to clear evidence on the best, most effective and most appropriate and proportionate intervention by government, the better.
Just in relation to the Data Bill because there are further things we are introducing there, there are new requirements on information society services which are likely to be accessed by children, so that they can be protected and supported, when they are designing their processing activities. Clause 91, clause 124 and a close 81, I think significant The bill makes recommendations on what we intend to do and are helpful in that direction. We want the Online Safety Act to bed in. We want to implement the data bill and the new provisions.
We want to conduct thorough, more authoritatively research and provide clear advice to teachers and parents across the land. It is not the end of the matter. I will be amazed if there is not further legislation in this area in coming years. With that, I commend the campaigners who have made such a strong case to us and via my honourable friend. I will end with the words from my honourable friend for Kensington and Bayswater, the words of the paediatrician he referred to are ringing in my mind.
There is no option of inaction for this House all for this country. There has to be action. I'm grateful for the honourable member introducing the bill today.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I beg to move the debate be now adjourned. The question is the debate be now
**** Possible New Speaker ****
The question is the debate be now adjourned. As many as are of that opinion, say, "Aye." Of the contrary, "No." The ayes have it.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Debate to be resumed what day? 11th of July.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
11th of July. 11th of July. I will now give a few moments for the Front Benchers
13:03
Private Members' Bills: Space Industry (Indemnities) Bill: Second Reading
-
**** Possible New Speaker ****
second reading. I beg to move that the bill be
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I beg to move that the bill be now read a second time. It may be of now read a second time. It may be of interest to you that Bradford is a real centre of space expertise and real centre of space expertise and real centre of space expertise and it has a real centre of at the University of Bradford. I will return to that later. I'm privileged to introduce a bill that will help to introduce a bill that will help push forward investment in the UK's critical space sector.
The bill will amend two sections of the space industry act 2018 to provide legal certainty that all spaceflight operator licences must include a limit on the amount of the operator's liability to the government under section 36 of the
Private Members' Bills: Space Industry (Indemnities) Bill: Second Reading
**** Possible New Speaker ****
second reading. I beg to move that the bill be
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I beg to move that the bill be now read a second time. It may be of now read a second time. It may be of interest to you that Bradford is a real centre of space expertise and real centre of space expertise and real centre of space expertise and it has a real centre of at the University of Bradford. I will return to that later. I'm privileged to introduce a bill that will help to introduce a bill that will help push forward investment in the UK's critical space sector.
The bill will amend two sections of the space industry act 2018 to provide legal certainty that all spaceflight operator licences must include a limit on the amount of the operator's liability to the government under section 36 of the
13:04
John Grady MP (Glasgow East, Labour)
-
-
John Grady MP (Glasgow East, Labour)
2018 act. One may ask what are spaceflight activities. This comprises launching into space spacecraft, for example, allowing spacecraft to orbit the earth and bringing the spacecraft back down to earth. Under the international law applicable to space, governments, including the UK, are liable for damage to property or death or damage to property or death or personal injury caused by space personal injury caused by space activities. A key reason why there Requires people carrying out space activities to indemnify the government against such claims.
The reason why the bill provides uncertainty over the need to limit liability is because this will help encourage merchant desperately needed investment into the sector. The space sector and satellites are central to almost everyone's day to day life. Take something simple, a trip to a football match. For Middlesbrough fans, I am afraid I'm not amongst them, their famous team is called fly me to the moon. Not a reference to Sinatra, but people make their way to the match with maps and travel updates on their phones, and use Google pay and Apple will let you store tickets and get into the stadium.
All of this depends on satellite technology. One may ask why it is called fly me to the moon, it is because a great Scottish manager, then manager of Middlesbrough, said to his captain, if I had to fly to the moon, I would take my Captain with me. He is a magnificent man. Both men played a significant role in saving that magnificent football club. Suppose you wanted to read on your device, that requires satellites. The protagonist of a novel by Hg Wells was from Bedford.
The Member for Bedford is a fine friend. Suppose you want to stream breakfast at Tiffany's, famous for Audrey Hepburn singing room -- moon river, streaming music depends on satellites. I will confess that moon river was one of my lullabies of choice when my children were younger and I was desperately trying to get them to sleep. I did not think that subterranean homesick alien by Radiohead would be quite the choice. Or Satellite of Love by Lou Reed.
I do not propose to sing moon river. Satellites and related technology is critical to modern life and will become even more so. There is a For the UK here. European demand for satellites up to 2023 is forecast to be worth up to 50 billion, even two percent of this would bring around £1 billion, $1 billion in revenues for the UK economy. Providing a serious economic opportunity to the UK and we must seize this with both hands. We must get growth back to the British economy and that is what our government is determined to do.
Space is an industry of a future. The future of hundreds of years, it is critical we invest and support industries that can bring our family of nations prosperity for decades and decades to come. As President John F. Kennedy said, man for -- in his quest for knowledge and progress cannot be deterred, the exploration for space will go ahead, whether we join it or not and it is one of the greatest adventures of all. President Kennedy said this in 1961. And in 2025 I say, it is high time for the United Kingdom to get stuck into this adventure and seize the
**** Possible New Speaker ****
opportunities it will provide. I thank you for giving way. I
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I thank you for giving way. I thank you for bringing this bill thank you for bringing this bill today. I am proud of a company in my today. I am proud of a company in my constituency, they are just 50 metres from my constituency office but the product they design our 250 miles above us. The international miles above us. The international space station which measures space station which measures atmospheric heating and cooling. They employ 30 people in the office but the supply chain stretches from inside the city to the Scottish borders and towns nearby.
Does the honourable friend agree with me that this company is evidence that the space sector is thriving in Scotland?
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I could not agree with my honourable friend more. Edinburgh has a thriving space sector, is to Scotland. My honourable friend has Scotland. My honourable friend has been for years heavily involved in work to grow the economy in work to grow the economy in Edinburgh and the Borders and Ipoh tribute for that. I must take this opportunity to pick a bone with the opportunity to pick a bone with the honourable member. He mentioned that Glasgow does not have a castle.
I Glasgow does not have a castle. I wish to correct the record. We have a fine castle. It is the second oldest building in Glasgow. The first oldest building in Lascaux is the beautiful cathedral. I'm not going to indulge in a dispute about whether Edinburgh or Glasgow are better cities. But there you are. I am obliged to my honourable friend for his intervention and I'm glad to be able to correct that point. There is another reason why it's very important that we have a thriving space satellite industry.
Space is critical to defence. We must have a thriving space sector to protect our country. Of course, the United Kingdom works with allies to ensure our interests are defended in space. However, the world is becoming more unstable and it is essential we have our own capabilities to launch and operate satellites from the United Kingdom. This bill is important in that regard also. It will secure a vibrant end to end space industry in the United Kingdom and this is important.
I take one example, having our own domestic launch capability is very important. And a civilian sector will help cover the costs of that launch capability. This bill also has a national security theme. Owing to much hard work, including by the last government, the UK Space Agency and many others, the United Kingdom also has a very firm foundation for a thriving space industry. In the time available, I cannot provide a complete survey of the vibrant space industry but here are key points, one of the key tasks we have had is to deliver -- develop our own launch capability, to put satellites up to space and then to get them back down.
The UK space board in the Shetland Islands is one of only two licensed space boards in Europe. In the south-west we have an operational space board in Cornwall. So, space is an opportunity for our family of nations from the very top to the very bottom. Only in a cartographic sense, I'm not looking to offend any members from Cornwall. There are also space ports under construction, one in Sutherland, the North of Scotland, another area in , , the , the UK , the UK has , the UK has a , the UK has a history , the UK has a history in , the UK has a history in satellite technology.
In my first constituency, Forest mechanics is one of the oldest football clubs in the north of Scotland points to a tradition of engineering in the north of Scotland. And another great engineering industry in the north of Scotland. More efforts to this debate, it is home to a company developing a rocket, which will be the first UK manufacturer to have a UK launch rocket. It is set to take off in 2025. The UK government recently announced £20 million investment.
An important investment and one that demonstrates the opportunities this brings to the north of Scotland, for which we need to redouble our efforts to secure economic growth and prosperity. My home city of Glasgow has a rich history of innovation and an incredibly promising cluster of space expertise. I'm determined it has a bright future in space. Glasgow is building more satellites than any other city in Europe. There are fantastic companies in this area, including Alba orbital, specialising in pocket satellites, another with expertise in small satellite technology and the leading provider of space-based data This year is Glasgow's 885th birthday, and this bill secures the prosperity for Glasgow for the next 850 secures the prosperity for Glasgow for the next 850.
The growth in my great city, city of hard work, innovation, and enterprise. There is, Madame Deputy Speaker, clear economic analysis, showing the space industry is an important opportunity for growth at the jobs. The latest size and health of the UK space industry report indicates that 228 organisations in Scotland generated a combined income of 298 million in 2021, 22. Almost double that for 2018-19, in real terms. Around 6,500 people work at Space in Scotland, and the UK committee's 152,000, and and the UK committee's 152,000, and committees around 17.5-20 billion.
And there are thousands of jobs in the supply chain as both a Madame Deputy Speaker, pause for a moment. We have only just got going on this, and we have 48,000 or more jobs. There is much potential for many more high-paid jobs here. And that is what Britain needs. Good, high- paid jobs for the future.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
His detailed and elegant descriptions of the UK space sector at Glasgow's contribution, but what is the provision in this bill doing is the provision in this bill doing to make space for the rest of us, including in South Wales and across Wales, to make sure space is felt in
**** Possible New Speaker ****
other communities? I thank my honourable friend for his intervention. This bill applies his intervention. This bill applies across the United Kingdom. And, there is a space industry in South there is a space industry in South Wales as well, so it will encourage investment in South Wales, by protecting investors against unlimited liability. I see this is absolutely critical for the space industry in South Wales as well as in Scotland. Naturally, I focus in Scotland because I'm obsessed with the place.
But I was also at, Madame Deputy Speaker, it is very important for Bradford as well. It is important as well to note the space industry as a source of good jobs, not just for people with PhD's in astrophysics either. A Scottish affairs Select Committee last year, the committee heard from great the committee heard from great In the industry. This will provide jobs for school leavers, graduates, PhD's, across the spectrum, and that
**** Possible New Speaker ****
is something brilliant about space. Does my honourable friend recognise that the Ministry of recognise that the Ministry of Defence is a massive investor in this space sector, investing £6.5 this space sector, investing £6.5 billion over the last decade? And what he will come that investment, as we are strengthening European security?
**** Possible New Speaker ****
security? I'm obliged to my honourable friend for his intervention, that is a very, very, very important point. Every week, if you pick up the paper and look at the discussion about where we need to invest in defence, where we need to invest in defence, we must invest in space. And we must have our own capability here in the United Kingdom. That is absolutely critical. Over my lifetime, the domain of warfare has sadly expanded from ground and sea and air to space, and also online.
And it is absolutely critical we invest in our capabilities here. And may I say, the investment by the Ministry of Defence of the UK government in this, which I believe has cross- party support, is something absolutely critical that weekly to pursue. Create economic opportunities for the United Kingdom as well, that the lesson of history and technological development is that investment in defence has significant civilian spin outs, so this is something that is quite right and proper that we invest in.
So, in summary, we have a huge opportunity here, Madame Deputy Speaker, and it is one that we must sees. This bill has one solo objective. To help get investment into the space sector so that we do seize this opportunity. With that in mind, Madame Deputy Speaker, I now turn to provide more detail about the legal and commercial background to the proposed bill. I must admit my previous career as a lawyer, I find this bit most interesting. However, I quite accept that for others, it may have a more treacle- esque quality to it.
I beg forgiveness, but I'm afraid, I must proceed. As I have explained, the bill seeks to limit space operators liability. I start by emphasising that there is a very, very strong safety regime in operation here. Spaceflight activities are very heavily regulated by an independent regulator, the Civil Aviation Act Authority, to ensure they are safe. In order to carry out safety activities, one must cover this outfall one regular to, the authority. It has a clear legal duty to secure the health and safety of the public.
The safety of their property. This trumps all the other CAAs duties. They must put safety first. There is a range of tests applied to the grant of licences, the applicant must be able to demonstrate it has taken more reasonable steps to ensure that the risks to people and property are as low as possible, and that the level of those risks are acceptable. More generally, there is a detailed and robust safety regime winning space -- Governing space activities covered by the CAA.
So, the small risks, to the extent possible by the victory regime for the next point I make is under the International make is under the International Illegal responsible of the four damage on spaceflight operations. If things go wrong, the government faces blame. The UK could can make claims against operators, under section 36 of 2018 act and again, this is quite proper. And under this regime, operators have to assume risk and under this bill, although it limits liability, operators continue to bear risk.
Of course, the government needs to ensure that operators can pay out claims made against it. Which is why the 2018 regime and the licences make provision for compulsory insurance to be put in place by the operators. And it is of course, as is usually the case, for businesses insuring against foreseeable risks. Under the regulatory regime and the risks must be properly assessed and appropriate levels of insurance put in place. And the policy for this are set out in a detailed guidance document, published by the Department for transport, the Department for, energy, and industrial strategy, as it was then, the UK Space Agency, the Civil Aviation Act authority.
I think everyone will be relieved to To go through the document, but making sure things are put in place to protect the taxpayer and is supervised by a strong depended regulator. The risk for spaceflight operators is that claims for the government, under section 36, exceed the carefully assessed assurance put in place. And the current legislation does not acquire the civil aviation authority and the government to Operators liability. The relevant section makes it entirely optional. Section 12.2 of the 2018 act provides an operator licence may specify a limit on the amount of liability under section 36, in respect of the activities authorised by licence.
Me here is a keyword. My proposal, Madame Deputy Speaker is that 'me' is changed to 'most' and 'any' is changed to 'of the' as a consequence. The government, in fact, has a long- standing policy that liability shall be limited for however, the issue for investors is that this is not set out in statute. This means government in the future and regulators could change this policy with comparative leanings, this could damage existing investors and leave investors with exposure to unlimited liabilities in the future.
This is deterring and will continue This is deterring and will continue to deter investment in the United Kingdom. This issue is causing real concern to investors. This is a point the space industry has made to the government, in 2020, the cross departmental took place, and the regime and in 2018 act. In summary, many respondents raised concerns with the lack of a legally firm guarantee, within the policy to limit liability. At this because concerns operators would be exposed to unlimited liability in the future.
The then government accepted the point that explained introducing a provision to require a liability cap legislation, it is what I am cap legislation, it is what I am proposing today. I agree with that decision. The issue was also discussed in the 2021 report prepared by the taskforce on innovation, growth and regulatory reform, which propose the introduction of a mandatory The liability of licence holders, to encourage investment in the sector. Respondents to a UK space agency consultation in 2021-22, also reiterated calls to make the limit of liability in section 12.2 of the 2,000 and act.
Mandatory. It is to be seen that this is a long-standing and unsolved issue. The space industry and potential indexes investors are right to be concerned about this. I am, some honourable members no, recovering lawyer and am a past career, had to deal with complex liability issues. I would like to reassure members not of these were of my own making. What I learned is that investors are happy to accept this. But if you are investing billions and billions a high risk industry, you will want to know you are not exposed to a number of losses, beyond which can be reasonably assumed.
The investors are right to stage the policies can be withdrawn, with much greater ease than a statute. Indeed, the plain fact in my experience is the spoke for legal challenge when policies are spoken for, and can often be quite limited for the many investors will simply not invest in a situation like this. They want to know the risks are clearly and fairly allocated, and manageable and covered by insurance. And they want to understand the liability regime is legally solid. By contrast to a guidance document, the statute will provide much greater protection.
Investors accept it will not provide absolute protection, but statutory protection will give much more comfort. And this is, Madame Deputy Speaker, reasonable position, for potential investors to adopt. And it is important to understand that investors have a choice in places in which to invest. Very many countries want this space investment. The United Kingdom has to be attractive to investors. These investors are long-term, and investors need to be sure they are covered in a legislative basis and do need some security.
My understanding is for all the statues with logical ability, will provide a state guarantee for what takes place in the territory. We are, at present, as a disadvantage, faced with this massive economic opportunity. There is a clear risk and competitiveness in space industry and growth as a result. The unlimited liability of the indemnity to government is damaging investor confidence, it makes for the airfield -- And makes the United Kingdom are less attractive place from which to lodge. This would undermine our growth in the sector and must I say also, our ambition is to ensure that we can keep our country safe and grow our defence.
This bill confirms the problem and makes the UK a much more attractive place to invest. To some up, Madame Deputy Speaker, I suspect some people will be glad! I am happy to keep going longer. The space sector is essential to almost everyone's lives. How could we check our emails in this chamber without the space sector? There is a very significant economic opportunity for the UK here. The space sector was critical of defence. The United Kingdom has a very firm foundation for revising the space industry and we must build on it, including Scotland, South Wales, Cornwall, south-east of England.
Even there will be people in the Isle of Wight, I believe, who were in space for there is a regime covering space operated by clever and highly experienced independent regulator for top operators have to put in place cashiers. -- Insurance. But, beyond that experience, this has been repeated explained to government, the investor's position is reasonable, the proposed change limit liability, and makes the UK a more effective place to invest. This bill will help create economic growth and jobs and prosperity for decades to come from Cornwall to Shetland.
This bill is good news for the great city of Glasgow, the great City of Edinburgh, the great south Wales, and the growth for jobs across the United Kingdom for it is time to resolve this issue, jobs and investments depend on it. Including, in Bradford, which was a real centre of excellence. Modern to speak, this bill changers to words, nay, to most, and any, to the I have always struggled with changes. It may be one of the smallest bills in this amendment.
I have not done the research into the smallest bill in Parliament. But I guess we are looking for A1 word here. It has one big objective to ensure further big objective to ensure further I could say this is one small step the Parliament -- for Parliament but a big step for space industry if I was any good at puns. As I suspect some of the honourable members from Scotland will tell you I am no good at puns and humourless.
Nevertheless I commend this bill to the House.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I'm obliged. The question is this bill be now read a second time.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
read a second time. Thank you. Firstly I wish to make
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Thank you. Firstly I wish to make a declaration of interest as a member of the APPG on space. It is perhaps fitting one week after the planets aligned in the night sky for the first time in 360 years this House is considering legislation that can help the U.K.'s thriving space industry. Almost 1/5 of all UK space industry. Almost 1/5 of all UK jobs in the space sector are based in Scotland. Scotland's space sector is leading in small satellite manufacturing.
Glasgow builds more small satellites than any other small satellites than any other place in Europe. Scotland is also the data capital of Europe hosting more than 170 dataset companies. I therefore would like to commend the efforts of my honourable friend, the member for Glasgow East in his bill which will help remove barriers to space find activities for Scotland and the UK as a whole. Growing space launch sector. In the detail of this bill it helps demonstrate how specific measures supported by the UK government in reserved matters can help developing industries in Scotland and the UK to grow and prosper.
Just as engineers need certainty in their calculations for
The reason why the bill provides uncertainty over the need to limit liability is because this will help encourage merchant desperately needed investment into the sector. The space sector and satellites are central to almost everyone's day to day life. Take something simple, a trip to a football match. For Middlesbrough fans, I am afraid I'm not amongst them, their famous team is called fly me to the moon. Not a reference to Sinatra, but people make their way to the match with maps and travel updates on their phones, and use Google pay and Apple will let you store tickets and get into the stadium.
All of this depends on satellite technology. One may ask why it is called fly me to the moon, it is because a great Scottish manager, then manager of Middlesbrough, said to his captain, if I had to fly to the moon, I would take my Captain with me. He is a magnificent man. Both men played a significant role in saving that magnificent football club. Suppose you wanted to read on your device, that requires satellites. The protagonist of a novel by Hg Wells was from Bedford.
The Member for Bedford is a fine friend. Suppose you want to stream breakfast at Tiffany's, famous for Audrey Hepburn singing room -- moon river, streaming music depends on satellites. I will confess that moon river was one of my lullabies of choice when my children were younger and I was desperately trying to get them to sleep. I did not think that subterranean homesick alien by Radiohead would be quite the choice. Or Satellite of Love by Lou Reed.
I do not propose to sing moon river. Satellites and related technology is critical to modern life and will become even more so. There is a For the UK here. European demand for satellites up to 2023 is forecast to be worth up to 50 billion, even two percent of this would bring around £1 billion, $1 billion in revenues for the UK economy. Providing a serious economic opportunity to the UK and we must seize this with both hands. We must get growth back to the British economy and that is what our government is determined to do.
Space is an industry of a future. The future of hundreds of years, it is critical we invest and support industries that can bring our family of nations prosperity for decades and decades to come. As President John F. Kennedy said, man for -- in his quest for knowledge and progress cannot be deterred, the exploration for space will go ahead, whether we join it or not and it is one of the greatest adventures of all. President Kennedy said this in 1961. And in 2025 I say, it is high time for the United Kingdom to get stuck into this adventure and seize the
**** Possible New Speaker ****
opportunities it will provide. I thank you for giving way. I
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I thank you for giving way. I thank you for bringing this bill thank you for bringing this bill today. I am proud of a company in my today. I am proud of a company in my constituency, they are just 50 metres from my constituency office but the product they design our 250 miles above us. The international miles above us. The international space station which measures space station which measures atmospheric heating and cooling. They employ 30 people in the office but the supply chain stretches from inside the city to the Scottish borders and towns nearby.
Does the honourable friend agree with me that this company is evidence that the space sector is thriving in Scotland?
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I could not agree with my honourable friend more. Edinburgh has a thriving space sector, is to Scotland. My honourable friend has Scotland. My honourable friend has been for years heavily involved in work to grow the economy in work to grow the economy in Edinburgh and the Borders and Ipoh tribute for that. I must take this opportunity to pick a bone with the opportunity to pick a bone with the honourable member. He mentioned that Glasgow does not have a castle.
I Glasgow does not have a castle. I wish to correct the record. We have a fine castle. It is the second oldest building in Glasgow. The first oldest building in Lascaux is the beautiful cathedral. I'm not going to indulge in a dispute about whether Edinburgh or Glasgow are better cities. But there you are. I am obliged to my honourable friend for his intervention and I'm glad to be able to correct that point. There is another reason why it's very important that we have a thriving space satellite industry.
Space is critical to defence. We must have a thriving space sector to protect our country. Of course, the United Kingdom works with allies to ensure our interests are defended in space. However, the world is becoming more unstable and it is essential we have our own capabilities to launch and operate satellites from the United Kingdom. This bill is important in that regard also. It will secure a vibrant end to end space industry in the United Kingdom and this is important.
I take one example, having our own domestic launch capability is very important. And a civilian sector will help cover the costs of that launch capability. This bill also has a national security theme. Owing to much hard work, including by the last government, the UK Space Agency and many others, the United Kingdom also has a very firm foundation for a thriving space industry. In the time available, I cannot provide a complete survey of the vibrant space industry but here are key points, one of the key tasks we have had is to deliver -- develop our own launch capability, to put satellites up to space and then to get them back down.
The UK space board in the Shetland Islands is one of only two licensed space boards in Europe. In the south-west we have an operational space board in Cornwall. So, space is an opportunity for our family of nations from the very top to the very bottom. Only in a cartographic sense, I'm not looking to offend any members from Cornwall. There are also space ports under construction, one in Sutherland, the North of Scotland, another area in , , the , the UK , the UK has , the UK has a , the UK has a history , the UK has a history in , the UK has a history in satellite technology.
In my first constituency, Forest mechanics is one of the oldest football clubs in the north of Scotland points to a tradition of engineering in the north of Scotland. And another great engineering industry in the north of Scotland. More efforts to this debate, it is home to a company developing a rocket, which will be the first UK manufacturer to have a UK launch rocket. It is set to take off in 2025. The UK government recently announced £20 million investment.
An important investment and one that demonstrates the opportunities this brings to the north of Scotland, for which we need to redouble our efforts to secure economic growth and prosperity. My home city of Glasgow has a rich history of innovation and an incredibly promising cluster of space expertise. I'm determined it has a bright future in space. Glasgow is building more satellites than any other city in Europe. There are fantastic companies in this area, including Alba orbital, specialising in pocket satellites, another with expertise in small satellite technology and the leading provider of space-based data This year is Glasgow's 885th birthday, and this bill secures the prosperity for Glasgow for the next 850 secures the prosperity for Glasgow for the next 850.
The growth in my great city, city of hard work, innovation, and enterprise. There is, Madame Deputy Speaker, clear economic analysis, showing the space industry is an important opportunity for growth at the jobs. The latest size and health of the UK space industry report indicates that 228 organisations in Scotland generated a combined income of 298 million in 2021, 22. Almost double that for 2018-19, in real terms. Around 6,500 people work at Space in Scotland, and the UK committee's 152,000, and and the UK committee's 152,000, and committees around 17.5-20 billion.
And there are thousands of jobs in the supply chain as both a Madame Deputy Speaker, pause for a moment. We have only just got going on this, and we have 48,000 or more jobs. There is much potential for many more high-paid jobs here. And that is what Britain needs. Good, high- paid jobs for the future.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
His detailed and elegant descriptions of the UK space sector at Glasgow's contribution, but what is the provision in this bill doing is the provision in this bill doing to make space for the rest of us, including in South Wales and across Wales, to make sure space is felt in
**** Possible New Speaker ****
other communities? I thank my honourable friend for his intervention. This bill applies his intervention. This bill applies across the United Kingdom. And, there is a space industry in South there is a space industry in South Wales as well, so it will encourage investment in South Wales, by protecting investors against unlimited liability. I see this is absolutely critical for the space industry in South Wales as well as in Scotland. Naturally, I focus in Scotland because I'm obsessed with the place.
But I was also at, Madame Deputy Speaker, it is very important for Bradford as well. It is important as well to note the space industry as a source of good jobs, not just for people with PhD's in astrophysics either. A Scottish affairs Select Committee last year, the committee heard from great the committee heard from great In the industry. This will provide jobs for school leavers, graduates, PhD's, across the spectrum, and that
**** Possible New Speaker ****
is something brilliant about space. Does my honourable friend recognise that the Ministry of recognise that the Ministry of Defence is a massive investor in this space sector, investing £6.5 this space sector, investing £6.5 billion over the last decade? And what he will come that investment, as we are strengthening European security?
**** Possible New Speaker ****
security? I'm obliged to my honourable friend for his intervention, that is a very, very, very important point. Every week, if you pick up the paper and look at the discussion about where we need to invest in defence, where we need to invest in defence, we must invest in space. And we must have our own capability here in the United Kingdom. That is absolutely critical. Over my lifetime, the domain of warfare has sadly expanded from ground and sea and air to space, and also online.
And it is absolutely critical we invest in our capabilities here. And may I say, the investment by the Ministry of Defence of the UK government in this, which I believe has cross- party support, is something absolutely critical that weekly to pursue. Create economic opportunities for the United Kingdom as well, that the lesson of history and technological development is that investment in defence has significant civilian spin outs, so this is something that is quite right and proper that we invest in.
So, in summary, we have a huge opportunity here, Madame Deputy Speaker, and it is one that we must sees. This bill has one solo objective. To help get investment into the space sector so that we do seize this opportunity. With that in mind, Madame Deputy Speaker, I now turn to provide more detail about the legal and commercial background to the proposed bill. I must admit my previous career as a lawyer, I find this bit most interesting. However, I quite accept that for others, it may have a more treacle- esque quality to it.
I beg forgiveness, but I'm afraid, I must proceed. As I have explained, the bill seeks to limit space operators liability. I start by emphasising that there is a very, very strong safety regime in operation here. Spaceflight activities are very heavily regulated by an independent regulator, the Civil Aviation Act Authority, to ensure they are safe. In order to carry out safety activities, one must cover this outfall one regular to, the authority. It has a clear legal duty to secure the health and safety of the public.
The safety of their property. This trumps all the other CAAs duties. They must put safety first. There is a range of tests applied to the grant of licences, the applicant must be able to demonstrate it has taken more reasonable steps to ensure that the risks to people and property are as low as possible, and that the level of those risks are acceptable. More generally, there is a detailed and robust safety regime winning space -- Governing space activities covered by the CAA.
So, the small risks, to the extent possible by the victory regime for the next point I make is under the International make is under the International Illegal responsible of the four damage on spaceflight operations. If things go wrong, the government faces blame. The UK could can make claims against operators, under section 36 of 2018 act and again, this is quite proper. And under this regime, operators have to assume risk and under this bill, although it limits liability, operators continue to bear risk.
Of course, the government needs to ensure that operators can pay out claims made against it. Which is why the 2018 regime and the licences make provision for compulsory insurance to be put in place by the operators. And it is of course, as is usually the case, for businesses insuring against foreseeable risks. Under the regulatory regime and the risks must be properly assessed and appropriate levels of insurance put in place. And the policy for this are set out in a detailed guidance document, published by the Department for transport, the Department for, energy, and industrial strategy, as it was then, the UK Space Agency, the Civil Aviation Act authority.
I think everyone will be relieved to To go through the document, but making sure things are put in place to protect the taxpayer and is supervised by a strong depended regulator. The risk for spaceflight operators is that claims for the government, under section 36, exceed the carefully assessed assurance put in place. And the current legislation does not acquire the civil aviation authority and the government to Operators liability. The relevant section makes it entirely optional. Section 12.2 of the 2018 act provides an operator licence may specify a limit on the amount of liability under section 36, in respect of the activities authorised by licence.
Me here is a keyword. My proposal, Madame Deputy Speaker is that 'me' is changed to 'most' and 'any' is changed to 'of the' as a consequence. The government, in fact, has a long- standing policy that liability shall be limited for however, the issue for investors is that this is not set out in statute. This means government in the future and regulators could change this policy with comparative leanings, this could damage existing investors and leave investors with exposure to unlimited liabilities in the future.
This is deterring and will continue This is deterring and will continue to deter investment in the United Kingdom. This issue is causing real concern to investors. This is a point the space industry has made to the government, in 2020, the cross departmental took place, and the regime and in 2018 act. In summary, many respondents raised concerns with the lack of a legally firm guarantee, within the policy to limit liability. At this because concerns operators would be exposed to unlimited liability in the future.
The then government accepted the point that explained introducing a provision to require a liability cap legislation, it is what I am cap legislation, it is what I am proposing today. I agree with that decision. The issue was also discussed in the 2021 report prepared by the taskforce on innovation, growth and regulatory reform, which propose the introduction of a mandatory The liability of licence holders, to encourage investment in the sector. Respondents to a UK space agency consultation in 2021-22, also reiterated calls to make the limit of liability in section 12.2 of the 2,000 and act.
Mandatory. It is to be seen that this is a long-standing and unsolved issue. The space industry and potential indexes investors are right to be concerned about this. I am, some honourable members no, recovering lawyer and am a past career, had to deal with complex liability issues. I would like to reassure members not of these were of my own making. What I learned is that investors are happy to accept this. But if you are investing billions and billions a high risk industry, you will want to know you are not exposed to a number of losses, beyond which can be reasonably assumed.
The investors are right to stage the policies can be withdrawn, with much greater ease than a statute. Indeed, the plain fact in my experience is the spoke for legal challenge when policies are spoken for, and can often be quite limited for the many investors will simply not invest in a situation like this. They want to know the risks are clearly and fairly allocated, and manageable and covered by insurance. And they want to understand the liability regime is legally solid. By contrast to a guidance document, the statute will provide much greater protection.
Investors accept it will not provide absolute protection, but statutory protection will give much more comfort. And this is, Madame Deputy Speaker, reasonable position, for potential investors to adopt. And it is important to understand that investors have a choice in places in which to invest. Very many countries want this space investment. The United Kingdom has to be attractive to investors. These investors are long-term, and investors need to be sure they are covered in a legislative basis and do need some security.
My understanding is for all the statues with logical ability, will provide a state guarantee for what takes place in the territory. We are, at present, as a disadvantage, faced with this massive economic opportunity. There is a clear risk and competitiveness in space industry and growth as a result. The unlimited liability of the indemnity to government is damaging investor confidence, it makes for the airfield -- And makes the United Kingdom are less attractive place from which to lodge. This would undermine our growth in the sector and must I say also, our ambition is to ensure that we can keep our country safe and grow our defence.
This bill confirms the problem and makes the UK a much more attractive place to invest. To some up, Madame Deputy Speaker, I suspect some people will be glad! I am happy to keep going longer. The space sector is essential to almost everyone's lives. How could we check our emails in this chamber without the space sector? There is a very significant economic opportunity for the UK here. The space sector was critical of defence. The United Kingdom has a very firm foundation for revising the space industry and we must build on it, including Scotland, South Wales, Cornwall, south-east of England.
Even there will be people in the Isle of Wight, I believe, who were in space for there is a regime covering space operated by clever and highly experienced independent regulator for top operators have to put in place cashiers. -- Insurance. But, beyond that experience, this has been repeated explained to government, the investor's position is reasonable, the proposed change limit liability, and makes the UK a more effective place to invest. This bill will help create economic growth and jobs and prosperity for decades to come from Cornwall to Shetland.
This bill is good news for the great city of Glasgow, the great City of Edinburgh, the great south Wales, and the growth for jobs across the United Kingdom for it is time to resolve this issue, jobs and investments depend on it. Including, in Bradford, which was a real centre of excellence. Modern to speak, this bill changers to words, nay, to most, and any, to the I have always struggled with changes. It may be one of the smallest bills in this amendment.
I have not done the research into the smallest bill in Parliament. But I guess we are looking for A1 word here. It has one big objective to ensure further big objective to ensure further I could say this is one small step the Parliament -- for Parliament but a big step for space industry if I was any good at puns. As I suspect some of the honourable members from Scotland will tell you I am no good at puns and humourless.
Nevertheless I commend this bill to the House.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I'm obliged. The question is this bill be now read a second time.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
read a second time. Thank you. Firstly I wish to make
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Thank you. Firstly I wish to make a declaration of interest as a member of the APPG on space. It is perhaps fitting one week after the planets aligned in the night sky for the first time in 360 years this House is considering legislation that can help the U.K.'s thriving space industry. Almost 1/5 of all UK space industry. Almost 1/5 of all UK jobs in the space sector are based in Scotland. Scotland's space sector is leading in small satellite manufacturing.
Glasgow builds more small satellites than any other small satellites than any other place in Europe. Scotland is also the data capital of Europe hosting more than 170 dataset companies. I therefore would like to commend the efforts of my honourable friend, the member for Glasgow East in his bill which will help remove barriers to space find activities for Scotland and the UK as a whole. Growing space launch sector. In the detail of this bill it helps demonstrate how specific measures supported by the UK government in reserved matters can help developing industries in Scotland and the UK to grow and prosper.
Just as engineers need certainty in their calculations for
13:33
Martin Rhodes MP (Glasgow North, Labour)
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Martin Rhodes MP (Glasgow North, Labour)
successful space launches, soda successful space launches, soda companies need certainty -- so do companies need certainty when investing into an industry. In the case of this bill providing and case of this bill providing and operating liability for space flight operators delivers that legal operators delivers that legal certainty for the space sector to know the upfront maximum amount they know the upfront maximum amount they can be liable for. This therefore reduces uncertainty and makes it reduces uncertainty and makes it easier for them to secure insurance coverage.
I am aware talk of insurance for liability is not as interesting as spaceflight itself. Nonetheless these are important for the Department of the sector. It signals there is a growth sector and we are willing to support it and be in dialogue with it. This bill was informed by consultation on space viability, insurance and charging by the previous government. My honourable friend is ensuring this bill helps reduce the financial risk that these businesses and aligns the UK with international standards thus making it a more attractive location for space companies to invest and operating.
-- Operate in. Overall what these points mean is more space flights out of Scotland than the rest of the UK, more innovation and more well-paid job creation. Supporting growth in the space sector will also see a network effect across my own city of Glasgow and further afield. My constituency of Glasgow North is home to the University of Glasgow which houses the expertise, skills and talent that not only already benefits the sector but also serves a vital pipeline for its future growth.
Additionally Glasgow has long been a help for small satellite -- hope for small satellite design and manufacturing. With Scotland producing the second largest amount of satellite after the United States of America. The West of Scotland science Park and Finnieston further strengthen this ecosystem. Hosting manufacturers and research development sites that's but everything from rocket launchers to small satellite spacecraft. These facilities play a crucial role in driving innovation and providing high skilled jobs. Reinforcing Glasgow's position at the forefront of the global space industry.
Therefore I urge colleagues to support this bill to help the space industry, achieve the legal certainty around liabilities it needs, continue to thrive and source investment. With this growth we can help deliver jobs and prosperity for Glasgow, Scotland and the rest of the UK. I congratulate my honourable friend for bringing this build the House and I am pleased to support it. it.
I am aware talk of insurance for liability is not as interesting as spaceflight itself. Nonetheless these are important for the Department of the sector. It signals there is a growth sector and we are willing to support it and be in dialogue with it. This bill was informed by consultation on space viability, insurance and charging by the previous government. My honourable friend is ensuring this bill helps reduce the financial risk that these businesses and aligns the UK with international standards thus making it a more attractive location for space companies to invest and operating.
-- Operate in. Overall what these points mean is more space flights out of Scotland than the rest of the UK, more innovation and more well-paid job creation. Supporting growth in the space sector will also see a network effect across my own city of Glasgow and further afield. My constituency of Glasgow North is home to the University of Glasgow which houses the expertise, skills and talent that not only already benefits the sector but also serves a vital pipeline for its future growth.
Additionally Glasgow has long been a help for small satellite -- hope for small satellite design and manufacturing. With Scotland producing the second largest amount of satellite after the United States of America. The West of Scotland science Park and Finnieston further strengthen this ecosystem. Hosting manufacturers and research development sites that's but everything from rocket launchers to small satellite spacecraft. These facilities play a crucial role in driving innovation and providing high skilled jobs. Reinforcing Glasgow's position at the forefront of the global space industry.
Therefore I urge colleagues to support this bill to help the space industry, achieve the legal certainty around liabilities it needs, continue to thrive and source investment. With this growth we can help deliver jobs and prosperity for Glasgow, Scotland and the rest of the UK. I congratulate my honourable friend for bringing this build the House and I am pleased to support it. it.
13:36
Katrina Murray MP (Cumbernauld and Kirkintilloch, Labour)
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Katrina Murray MP (Cumbernauld and Kirkintilloch, Labour)
Thank you. I am proud to rise and support my honourable friend from Glasgow East in his bill on the Glasgow East in his bill on the space industry. Large parts of Scotland have a burgeoning foothold in the space industry. Not just the industry but the supply chain as my honourable friend for Edinburgh West points out. Very much my area. It is becoming one of our largest industrial sectors if I am being honest, my interest in space like many of my generation is a combination of sci-fi and the launch of being made to sit and watch the launch of the space shuttle.
As the opening statements of Star Trek told us, space the final frontier. And to boldly go where no-one man has gone before. Given what separates my honourable friend and his constituency and mine is the M 73 which is a major part of Scotland's motorway and infrastructure, probably fair to say that is not somewhere people to boldly go on that journey every day. Although having once spent the night on the motorway during a snowstorm, yes it does feel a bit like the final frontier at times.
This notion in itself is exceptionally technical in its nature. And the need for it is immense. The Prime Minister rightly reminded us this week of the need for Europe to be united and not rely on the United States and it comes to conflict. This is immediately true in space. There may be competition within the sector and we have even heard about the competition within the sector in Scotland but this is healthy. We do need to break the dominance of the US private sector in this space.
To develop the sector at warp speed is vital. Constituencies like mine are crying out for advanced engineering jobs. Jobs which are highly skilled and naturally well-paid. Our locals economies benefit from those all over the country coming to work in those warehouse factories and units. You visit those units as I have had the privilege to do and you meet the full range of people who work there. No longer is engineering the engineering I knew of my childhood. It is no longer a pale Male and Steele.
The number of women in the industry is absolutely obvious and that takes us right back again to this series of Star Trek in the '70s whether inspirational and transformative effect of Michelle Nichols had as Lieutenant and cannot be overstated. The fact she was hired by NASA to recruit people of colour for the space shuttle program between 1977 and 2015 showed the impact she had. Many astronauts have credited Nicholls as an inspiration for them to want to work there. The first African-American woman in space and 92.
And a year later appeared at the depths of the US enterprise as part of Star Trek the Next Generation. Every single device we love to watch on Star Trek is what we are using today. If we look at all of our iPads they were there as first handheld mobile devices. The display screens that were there. All the Star Trek world who had Neil Gray T sent hot with replicator from the ships reserves. We haven't quite got that level of sophistication yet but the work that 3D printers currently doing through computer created design and the effect this has on the advanced engineering sector cannot be underestimated.
Indeed we are now seeing food products being printed too. Maybe in the not-too-distant future Patrick Stewart himself will be able to order a pity -- order up a T, Yorkshire, the hot version. We have not yet developed the NASA or NASA have not yet developed and NASA have said the work driver something that could be possible in the future. Investment in our sector makes it happen. Or in the words again of John, it makes it so. John, it makes it so.
As the opening statements of Star Trek told us, space the final frontier. And to boldly go where no-one man has gone before. Given what separates my honourable friend and his constituency and mine is the M 73 which is a major part of Scotland's motorway and infrastructure, probably fair to say that is not somewhere people to boldly go on that journey every day. Although having once spent the night on the motorway during a snowstorm, yes it does feel a bit like the final frontier at times.
This notion in itself is exceptionally technical in its nature. And the need for it is immense. The Prime Minister rightly reminded us this week of the need for Europe to be united and not rely on the United States and it comes to conflict. This is immediately true in space. There may be competition within the sector and we have even heard about the competition within the sector in Scotland but this is healthy. We do need to break the dominance of the US private sector in this space.
To develop the sector at warp speed is vital. Constituencies like mine are crying out for advanced engineering jobs. Jobs which are highly skilled and naturally well-paid. Our locals economies benefit from those all over the country coming to work in those warehouse factories and units. You visit those units as I have had the privilege to do and you meet the full range of people who work there. No longer is engineering the engineering I knew of my childhood. It is no longer a pale Male and Steele.
The number of women in the industry is absolutely obvious and that takes us right back again to this series of Star Trek in the '70s whether inspirational and transformative effect of Michelle Nichols had as Lieutenant and cannot be overstated. The fact she was hired by NASA to recruit people of colour for the space shuttle program between 1977 and 2015 showed the impact she had. Many astronauts have credited Nicholls as an inspiration for them to want to work there. The first African-American woman in space and 92.
And a year later appeared at the depths of the US enterprise as part of Star Trek the Next Generation. Every single device we love to watch on Star Trek is what we are using today. If we look at all of our iPads they were there as first handheld mobile devices. The display screens that were there. All the Star Trek world who had Neil Gray T sent hot with replicator from the ships reserves. We haven't quite got that level of sophistication yet but the work that 3D printers currently doing through computer created design and the effect this has on the advanced engineering sector cannot be underestimated.
Indeed we are now seeing food products being printed too. Maybe in the not-too-distant future Patrick Stewart himself will be able to order a pity -- order up a T, Yorkshire, the hot version. We have not yet developed the NASA or NASA have not yet developed and NASA have said the work driver something that could be possible in the future. Investment in our sector makes it happen. Or in the words again of John, it makes it so. John, it makes it so.
13:40
Rachel Hopkins MP (Luton South and South Bedfordshire, Labour)
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Rachel Hopkins MP (Luton South and South Bedfordshire, Labour)
Thank you. It is a pleasure to speak in this debate. To support my honourable friend, member for Glasgow East in his mission to positive change. In this industry. I profess to say I have little particular knowledge about space but the points that was so well made by himself and others about the slight change to the licensing for spaceflight and that is the launch flight and return of space satellites that I can just about envisage would encourage greater investment in businesses.
I think the growth element and investment is so important for all of us and for our economy. When we reflect on day-to-day life and how much is reliant on satellites, we had a really important debate earlier about the use of smartphones. But we all need them and they are reliant on satellites in space. I reflected on space flights and activities now in outer space. And like some others in this chamber I remember Flash Gordon, Star Wars coming out and it was so surreal and fantastical.
And indeed a long time ago in a galaxy far away. OK. I got it in Hansard. But that encouragement investment in space I think is really important. I am speaking on behalf of the granddaughter of an eminent physicist. The combination of science and revolution -- and evolution in engineering, science, computing, all of this which is so important for the future business in space. And while we talk about investment in businesses I wanted to really make my point about encouraging young people to search now a career in this future industry around space.
Careers in space science and technology being something others have spoken about. Particularly in Scotland, it is great to hear. Whilst my honourable friend is the member for Glasgow East, he is also originally from Bedfordshire which is another reason why I wanted to speak in this debate will do but give me another opportunity to talk about the University of Bedfordshire with the main campus being in my constituency of Luton South and South Bedfordshire. I appreciate the other campus being in Bedford itself.
There are some great opportunities to study there with Artificial Intelligence and robotics and computer science, software engineering and applications, electronic engineering, mechanical engineering. All of these would lead to brilliant future careers in the space industry. I highly encourage young people who are looking to forge a career but equally career changes I do wholeheartedly believe in lifelong learning. Maybe I could become someone involved in space. Yes, the space industry being that growth area for jobs across the UK is very important.
While there may not be, while there are some in my constituency I think it is fantastic we are looking to grow our economy up and down the United Kingdom. So I absolutely welcome this change that has been put forward. Small though it may be, but a big impact. I wanted to get on record my support for this and the importance it would mean the people in my constituency who may want to see how a future career in the space industry. -- May want to seek out a future career in the space industry.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Thank you. I challenge anyone to listen to my honourable friend from Glasgow East and not to think what a Glasgow East and not to think what a Glasgow East and not to think what a We also have three castles on the Isle of Wight, one of which also has Isle of Wight, one of which also has
I think the growth element and investment is so important for all of us and for our economy. When we reflect on day-to-day life and how much is reliant on satellites, we had a really important debate earlier about the use of smartphones. But we all need them and they are reliant on satellites in space. I reflected on space flights and activities now in outer space. And like some others in this chamber I remember Flash Gordon, Star Wars coming out and it was so surreal and fantastical.
And indeed a long time ago in a galaxy far away. OK. I got it in Hansard. But that encouragement investment in space I think is really important. I am speaking on behalf of the granddaughter of an eminent physicist. The combination of science and revolution -- and evolution in engineering, science, computing, all of this which is so important for the future business in space. And while we talk about investment in businesses I wanted to really make my point about encouraging young people to search now a career in this future industry around space.
Careers in space science and technology being something others have spoken about. Particularly in Scotland, it is great to hear. Whilst my honourable friend is the member for Glasgow East, he is also originally from Bedfordshire which is another reason why I wanted to speak in this debate will do but give me another opportunity to talk about the University of Bedfordshire with the main campus being in my constituency of Luton South and South Bedfordshire. I appreciate the other campus being in Bedford itself.
There are some great opportunities to study there with Artificial Intelligence and robotics and computer science, software engineering and applications, electronic engineering, mechanical engineering. All of these would lead to brilliant future careers in the space industry. I highly encourage young people who are looking to forge a career but equally career changes I do wholeheartedly believe in lifelong learning. Maybe I could become someone involved in space. Yes, the space industry being that growth area for jobs across the UK is very important.
While there may not be, while there are some in my constituency I think it is fantastic we are looking to grow our economy up and down the United Kingdom. So I absolutely welcome this change that has been put forward. Small though it may be, but a big impact. I wanted to get on record my support for this and the importance it would mean the people in my constituency who may want to see how a future career in the space industry. -- May want to seek out a future career in the space industry.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Thank you. I challenge anyone to listen to my honourable friend from Glasgow East and not to think what a Glasgow East and not to think what a Glasgow East and not to think what a We also have three castles on the Isle of Wight, one of which also has Isle of Wight, one of which also has
13:45
Mr Richard Quigley MP (Isle of Wight West, Labour)
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Mr Richard Quigley MP (Isle of Wight West, Labour)
Isle of Wight, one of which also has a donkey that used powers of wheel to draw water from its well. I have no idea what used to this is to the debate but I felt very much left out. I'd like to thank my honourable friend for bringing forward this important bill which not only reaffirms the U.K.'s commitment to advancing space travel and exploration but also ensures this progress is built on a foundation of safety, accessibility and innovation. At a time when the global space sector is increasingly dominated billionaire led adventures this bill sends a clear message, UK remains dedicated to a space industry that is both pioneering and responsible.
One that prioritises safety, fosters innovation and creates opportunity for all. I am proud to say that the Isle of Wight has a fantastic industry in support of the U.K.'s growing space industry which gives colleagues a break from hearing me talk about ferries was like in many other areas we truly punch above our weight in this regard. In 1955 Saunders Roe began developing the back night researched ballistic full stop over the course of the program Black Knight achieved 22 successful launches without a single major failure.
A remarkable feat which showcased British engineering excellence will stop this legacy highlights the Isle of Wight's pivotal role in the history of British space exploration. An technological innovation demonstrating its potential to contribute to the U.K.'s modern space ambitions. However we don't just want to be a part of space history, we want to be a part of space future. One of the biggest barriers to growth in the UK space industry has been the issue of liability. At present the government risks limited liability when launching satellites or conducting spaceflight operations.
This uncertainty discourages investment as insurers and financial backers are unwilling to support projects with unpredictable risks. The bill before us today is a simple but It will ensure that all spaceflight licences set a clear limit on operator liability to bring us in line with international standards. This change is particularly important for small emerging space companies, many of which could see the Isle of Wight as a viable location of future space -related ventures.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I thank you for giving way and I'm really pleased to hear mention small businesses. Does he agree with small businesses. Does he agree with me that start-ups and scale ups of small businesses are vital for our
**** Possible New Speaker ****
economies up another country? I thank her for the intervention, I do indeed agree with her, small businesses will be the way forward businesses will be the way forward in terms of space technology. The Isle of Wight is a viable location for future space related ventures whether on satellite many factoring,
**** Possible New Speaker ****
research or launch support services. He mentioned satellites, does he recognise the massive benefits that recognise the massive benefits that satellites give to the UK, everything from contactless transactions to supporting our defence and national security?
**** Possible New Speaker ****
defence and national security? I do indeed appreciate that although bearing in mind the last we were all debating am not sure how much we can say this is satellites. Yes indeed I do. We on the Isle of Wight already have the Wight already have the infrastructure to build upon with our skilled workforce, proximity to the South Coast aerospace sector and strategic location for maritime testing. We are well placed to benefit from fairer clearer regulatory framework by passing this bill put up we are not only strengthening the U.K.'s position in the global space industry but also opening new opportunities for regions like the Isle of Wight.
Let's ensure that our Ireland and the UK as a whole remains at the forefront of space innovation. I urge colleagues to support the change of two words which this bill highlights, not only on commitment to the great agenda but this country's great commitment to the future.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I would like to begin by congratulating the Member for Glasgow East for calling this really Glasgow East for calling this really important debate might be the most consequential two words ever changed in parliament. I'm pleased to in parliament. I'm pleased to support it. Today marks the commencement of British science week, celebration of science, technology, engineering and technology, engineering and technology, engineering and mathematics. The year's theme change and adapt is particularly fitting, it deals most of the stars have aligned that we are therefore debating the space industry today, built on technology, engineering and Mane -- mathematics will stop this also perfectly aligned with the theme of British science week as it seeks to implement small yet significant changes to adapt the space industry in the UK to make it fit for the future.
As many other mamas have explained the space sector is incredibly valuable industry in the U.K.'s economy and one we should all take pride in. The UK has long been committed to With 1,500 space companies on our shores will top UK leads in start-up and scale up investment second globally only to the United States. This is a huge achievement and a real opportunity that we must continue to nurture. A consultation undertaken by the previous government showed that operators holding unlimited liability is often viewed this as a barrier to conducting space but activities from the UK.
The same consultation confirmed that other launching nations will provide a state guarantee for space flight activities conducted from their territories. This reality does give investments that make investors a firm footing when looking to the UK as a place to invest. Therefore if we are truly serious about fostering growth across the length and breadth of our country then the space sector plays an incredibly important role. This includes -- ensures that companies and investors are confident about the UK as a space in
One that prioritises safety, fosters innovation and creates opportunity for all. I am proud to say that the Isle of Wight has a fantastic industry in support of the U.K.'s growing space industry which gives colleagues a break from hearing me talk about ferries was like in many other areas we truly punch above our weight in this regard. In 1955 Saunders Roe began developing the back night researched ballistic full stop over the course of the program Black Knight achieved 22 successful launches without a single major failure.
A remarkable feat which showcased British engineering excellence will stop this legacy highlights the Isle of Wight's pivotal role in the history of British space exploration. An technological innovation demonstrating its potential to contribute to the U.K.'s modern space ambitions. However we don't just want to be a part of space history, we want to be a part of space future. One of the biggest barriers to growth in the UK space industry has been the issue of liability. At present the government risks limited liability when launching satellites or conducting spaceflight operations.
This uncertainty discourages investment as insurers and financial backers are unwilling to support projects with unpredictable risks. The bill before us today is a simple but It will ensure that all spaceflight licences set a clear limit on operator liability to bring us in line with international standards. This change is particularly important for small emerging space companies, many of which could see the Isle of Wight as a viable location of future space -related ventures.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I thank you for giving way and I'm really pleased to hear mention small businesses. Does he agree with small businesses. Does he agree with me that start-ups and scale ups of small businesses are vital for our
**** Possible New Speaker ****
economies up another country? I thank her for the intervention, I do indeed agree with her, small businesses will be the way forward businesses will be the way forward in terms of space technology. The Isle of Wight is a viable location for future space related ventures whether on satellite many factoring,
**** Possible New Speaker ****
research or launch support services. He mentioned satellites, does he recognise the massive benefits that recognise the massive benefits that satellites give to the UK, everything from contactless transactions to supporting our defence and national security?
**** Possible New Speaker ****
defence and national security? I do indeed appreciate that although bearing in mind the last we were all debating am not sure how much we can say this is satellites. Yes indeed I do. We on the Isle of Wight already have the Wight already have the infrastructure to build upon with our skilled workforce, proximity to the South Coast aerospace sector and strategic location for maritime testing. We are well placed to benefit from fairer clearer regulatory framework by passing this bill put up we are not only strengthening the U.K.'s position in the global space industry but also opening new opportunities for regions like the Isle of Wight.
Let's ensure that our Ireland and the UK as a whole remains at the forefront of space innovation. I urge colleagues to support the change of two words which this bill highlights, not only on commitment to the great agenda but this country's great commitment to the future.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I would like to begin by congratulating the Member for Glasgow East for calling this really Glasgow East for calling this really important debate might be the most consequential two words ever changed in parliament. I'm pleased to in parliament. I'm pleased to support it. Today marks the commencement of British science week, celebration of science, technology, engineering and technology, engineering and technology, engineering and mathematics. The year's theme change and adapt is particularly fitting, it deals most of the stars have aligned that we are therefore debating the space industry today, built on technology, engineering and Mane -- mathematics will stop this also perfectly aligned with the theme of British science week as it seeks to implement small yet significant changes to adapt the space industry in the UK to make it fit for the future.
As many other mamas have explained the space sector is incredibly valuable industry in the U.K.'s economy and one we should all take pride in. The UK has long been committed to With 1,500 space companies on our shores will top UK leads in start-up and scale up investment second globally only to the United States. This is a huge achievement and a real opportunity that we must continue to nurture. A consultation undertaken by the previous government showed that operators holding unlimited liability is often viewed this as a barrier to conducting space but activities from the UK.
The same consultation confirmed that other launching nations will provide a state guarantee for space flight activities conducted from their territories. This reality does give investments that make investors a firm footing when looking to the UK as a place to invest. Therefore if we are truly serious about fostering growth across the length and breadth of our country then the space sector plays an incredibly important role. This includes -- ensures that companies and investors are confident about the UK as a space in
13:51
Alex Ballinger MP (Halesowen, Labour)
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Alex Ballinger MP (Halesowen, Labour)
which to invest. Many people may question what this means for them as we don't have the larger space we don't have the larger space industry now up small part of the West Midlands, but we all benefit from the services built by the SpaceX of satellite technology made possible by the space industry enables us to buy our morning coffees with contactless payments satellites assist with navigation and importantly, many satellites support our defence and national support our defence and national security, keeping us all safe.
The Ministry of Defence has been a major Ministry of Defence has been a major player in this field. Time investing £6.5 billion over the last decade, including 5 billion for satellite and indications through Skynet and and indications through Skynet and 1.5 billion through the defence space portfolio. The defence pay strategy sets out our focus on intelligence, surveillance and satellite immune occasions. I know colleagues across the chamber who welcome this approach is does welcome this approach is does industry and allies alike.
The additional 1.5 billion of investment three defence space portfolio bring significant investment to space and research and development and the jobs, skills and expertise to go with it. Through that investment we are not only ensuring that we meet the threshold for the future but -- threats of the future Buddha building capability, skills expertise and jobs that will serve a wider civil space program any efforts to expand on this are therefore wholly welcomed. Investment in space is more than Many of the members currently sit on these benches, particularly those of us with a keen interest in Star Trek, the prospect of sending rockets into the sky is an exciting one for as its core investment in the space industry is about so much more.
It's about unlocking the economy and allowing for significant economic growth.
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I thank him for giving way, he talks about potentially not benefiting hugely from the space benefiting hugely from the space industry, this government is developing our industrial strategy right now, does he agree with me that space should be right at the heart of that because the potentially could bring for places like Hell so in in similar towns and cities across the country's full stop
**** Possible New Speaker ****
stop I thank him for his intervention and I really welcome U.K.'s industrial strategy, particularly industrial strategy, particularly the defence industrial strategy. the defence industrial strategy. There are many businesses in his constituency like Summers Forge who work in the defence sector in the UK, primarily the Navy is our engineering expertise being a heavy engineering expertise being a heavy industrial part of the country. There are opportunities as well. Businesses across the country to get involved in the space sector and the small change will unlock a lot of investment that could be used to make different places.
There are other reasons to support the sector, if our goal is to eliminate the obstacles that hinder new businesses establishing themselves in the UK these two small words help make this change by doing so we aim to create an environment where countries that's why companies are encouraged that's why companies are encouraged to set up operations here rather than relocating full stop we must focus on retaining these jobs and ensuring the employment opportunities of the future are available right here in the UK. A thriving business ecosystem will not only boost the economy but also drive innovation and technological advancements.
By supporting the sector we can create a sustainable and prosperous future for our nation, attracting global talent and investment across science, technology, research and development, as well as contributing to this government core mission of growth. Once again I want to congratulate the Member for this bill it is a significant step towards ensuring UK remains at the forefront of the space industry. Driving economic growth and innovation for years to come. It's a clear signal to the world that U.K.'s open for business, ready to lead in the space industry and dedicated to creating thriving environment for growth and developing.
By supporting this bill we are not only investing in the space industry but also in the future of our country, ensuring we remain competitive on the global stage and continue to attract the best and brightest minds to our
**** Possible New Speaker ****
shores. It is an honour to rise today to
**** Possible New Speaker ****
It is an honour to rise today to speak in the space industry indemnities bill and with it to champion the vital opportunities that the space sector provides, not just across the United Kingdom especially to members from Scotland, especially to members from Scotland, but to the whole of our country and my area in particular which is Notts
The Ministry of Defence has been a major Ministry of Defence has been a major player in this field. Time investing £6.5 billion over the last decade, including 5 billion for satellite and indications through Skynet and and indications through Skynet and 1.5 billion through the defence space portfolio. The defence pay strategy sets out our focus on intelligence, surveillance and satellite immune occasions. I know colleagues across the chamber who welcome this approach is does welcome this approach is does industry and allies alike.
The additional 1.5 billion of investment three defence space portfolio bring significant investment to space and research and development and the jobs, skills and expertise to go with it. Through that investment we are not only ensuring that we meet the threshold for the future but -- threats of the future Buddha building capability, skills expertise and jobs that will serve a wider civil space program any efforts to expand on this are therefore wholly welcomed. Investment in space is more than Many of the members currently sit on these benches, particularly those of us with a keen interest in Star Trek, the prospect of sending rockets into the sky is an exciting one for as its core investment in the space industry is about so much more.
It's about unlocking the economy and allowing for significant economic growth.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I thank him for giving way, he talks about potentially not benefiting hugely from the space benefiting hugely from the space industry, this government is developing our industrial strategy right now, does he agree with me that space should be right at the heart of that because the potentially could bring for places like Hell so in in similar towns and cities across the country's full stop
**** Possible New Speaker ****
stop I thank him for his intervention and I really welcome U.K.'s industrial strategy, particularly industrial strategy, particularly the defence industrial strategy. the defence industrial strategy. There are many businesses in his constituency like Summers Forge who work in the defence sector in the UK, primarily the Navy is our engineering expertise being a heavy engineering expertise being a heavy industrial part of the country. There are opportunities as well. Businesses across the country to get involved in the space sector and the small change will unlock a lot of investment that could be used to make different places.
There are other reasons to support the sector, if our goal is to eliminate the obstacles that hinder new businesses establishing themselves in the UK these two small words help make this change by doing so we aim to create an environment where countries that's why companies are encouraged that's why companies are encouraged to set up operations here rather than relocating full stop we must focus on retaining these jobs and ensuring the employment opportunities of the future are available right here in the UK. A thriving business ecosystem will not only boost the economy but also drive innovation and technological advancements.
By supporting the sector we can create a sustainable and prosperous future for our nation, attracting global talent and investment across science, technology, research and development, as well as contributing to this government core mission of growth. Once again I want to congratulate the Member for this bill it is a significant step towards ensuring UK remains at the forefront of the space industry. Driving economic growth and innovation for years to come. It's a clear signal to the world that U.K.'s open for business, ready to lead in the space industry and dedicated to creating thriving environment for growth and developing.
By supporting this bill we are not only investing in the space industry but also in the future of our country, ensuring we remain competitive on the global stage and continue to attract the best and brightest minds to our
**** Possible New Speaker ****
shores. It is an honour to rise today to
**** Possible New Speaker ****
It is an honour to rise today to speak in the space industry indemnities bill and with it to champion the vital opportunities that the space sector provides, not just across the United Kingdom especially to members from Scotland, especially to members from Scotland, but to the whole of our country and my area in particular which is Notts
13:55
James Naish MP (Rushcliffe, Labour)
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James Naish MP (Rushcliffe, Labour)
my area in particular which is Notts and my constituency of Rushcliffe. I congratulate my honourable friend the Member for Glasgow East for bringing this forward. I commend him for talking for 30 minutes having for talking for 30 minutes having changed to words. -- Two words. I want to echo the sentiments my colleagues about the transformative potential of our country's space industry. The industry is already worth 17.5 billion to our economy, employing 50,000 people across the nation. It is quite literally a sector with no limits.
This bill represents a crucial step in ensuring that the UK remains a global leader in space exploration, satellite technology and aerospace innovation. Body mentioned U.K.'s modern industrial strategy which this government is developing, and I genuinely hope that space sits at the heart of it. In Rushcliffe and across Notts we are witnessing a profound impact of this growing profound impact of this growing sector. I am immensely proud to highlight some of the exciting developments taking place in our region.
Just a short journey from my constituency is the Sherwood Observatory in Sutton in Ashfield which is currently undergoing a £6.8 million transformation. Soon it will open a state-of-the-art planetarium and science discovery centre, providing an unparalleled gateway to the stars for local students and visitors alike. What makes this project particularly remarkable is its innovative use of a Victorian water reservoir, blended historical preservation with cutting-edge science education. Funded by the National Lottery, Towns Fund and private donations, this planetarium will inspire countless young minds, encouraging the next generation of scientists, engineers and hopefully some astronauts.
The planetarium is set to generate a host of economic opportunities for Notts, it will attract visitors from across the UK bolstering local tourism and supporting businesses in the area. And of course it underscores a commitment to making science accessible to all regardless of background or geography. Closer to Rushcliffe my own constituency we have the University of Nottingham's Inst aerospace technology which is a shining example of our region's commitment to excellence in the search and innovation.
The RAC is at the forefront of aerospace and space research working with leading global tech why companies to develop technologies which will define the future of space exploration. I'm also proud to note that the University ranks among the top institutions in the UK for aeronautical and aerospace engineering, securing seventh place in the 2025 UK complete University guide. This ranking is a testament to the exceptional work being done to prepare students for careers in aerospace sector and develop groundbreaking technologies will propel our nation to new heights, both aggressively and literally.
-- Figuratively. Nothing in space sector is not just about innovation is also about inclusion and opportunity. This industry offers young people in our region the chance to pursue exciting, well-paid careers without needing to leave their communities. As we saw in the...
**** Possible New Speaker ****
The space sector offers opportunities to all of our constituents across the country through the defence industrial strategies opportunity to recognise strategies opportunity to recognise the creation of stem makes them act and supports their Mac-based and supports their Mac-based activities particularly in space. Would the right honourable member agree with me that my industrial strategy submission which highlights strategy submission which highlights this would be a worthy thing for all
**** Possible New Speaker ****
members today? Thank him for his intervention I haven't read his submission but I would like to, if you would like to send that to me I would very much welcome reading it. The supply chain of the space sector is vast and diverse as he has just alluded to, with almost 2,900 suppliers with almost 2,900 suppliers The The local The local economy The local economy and The local economy and strengthen The local economy and strengthen our communities.
Discussing the space industry here today, we are sending a clear message the UK is a competitive and supportive environment space businesses. This is not just about fostering innovation which is about ensuring jobs today, investment today and ensuring expertise remains here in the UK. Benefiting constituencies like mine. Madam Deputy Speaker, Nottinghamshire is proudly playing its part. The Sherwood Observatory its part. The Sherwood Observatory planetarium to the University of Nottingham with their area for space research, our region is a shining example of the transformative power of the space sector.
This bill is an essential piece of legislation as it addresses the current requirement for unlimited liability in cases of damages involving UK owned satellites which is inadvertently driven operators away from the UK to other countries with more favourable terms. By supporting the industry today we are not just enabling launches into orbit, we are launching a brighter future for young people, for our economy and for the UK as a whole. Collectively as a house I hope we will seize this opportunity to lead the world in space innovation while ensuring the benefits of this industry are felt in every corner of the country.
This bill represents a crucial step in ensuring that the UK remains a global leader in space exploration, satellite technology and aerospace innovation. Body mentioned U.K.'s modern industrial strategy which this government is developing, and I genuinely hope that space sits at the heart of it. In Rushcliffe and across Notts we are witnessing a profound impact of this growing profound impact of this growing sector. I am immensely proud to highlight some of the exciting developments taking place in our region.
Just a short journey from my constituency is the Sherwood Observatory in Sutton in Ashfield which is currently undergoing a £6.8 million transformation. Soon it will open a state-of-the-art planetarium and science discovery centre, providing an unparalleled gateway to the stars for local students and visitors alike. What makes this project particularly remarkable is its innovative use of a Victorian water reservoir, blended historical preservation with cutting-edge science education. Funded by the National Lottery, Towns Fund and private donations, this planetarium will inspire countless young minds, encouraging the next generation of scientists, engineers and hopefully some astronauts.
The planetarium is set to generate a host of economic opportunities for Notts, it will attract visitors from across the UK bolstering local tourism and supporting businesses in the area. And of course it underscores a commitment to making science accessible to all regardless of background or geography. Closer to Rushcliffe my own constituency we have the University of Nottingham's Inst aerospace technology which is a shining example of our region's commitment to excellence in the search and innovation.
The RAC is at the forefront of aerospace and space research working with leading global tech why companies to develop technologies which will define the future of space exploration. I'm also proud to note that the University ranks among the top institutions in the UK for aeronautical and aerospace engineering, securing seventh place in the 2025 UK complete University guide. This ranking is a testament to the exceptional work being done to prepare students for careers in aerospace sector and develop groundbreaking technologies will propel our nation to new heights, both aggressively and literally.
-- Figuratively. Nothing in space sector is not just about innovation is also about inclusion and opportunity. This industry offers young people in our region the chance to pursue exciting, well-paid careers without needing to leave their communities. As we saw in the...
**** Possible New Speaker ****
The space sector offers opportunities to all of our constituents across the country through the defence industrial strategies opportunity to recognise strategies opportunity to recognise the creation of stem makes them act and supports their Mac-based and supports their Mac-based activities particularly in space. Would the right honourable member agree with me that my industrial strategy submission which highlights strategy submission which highlights this would be a worthy thing for all
**** Possible New Speaker ****
members today? Thank him for his intervention I haven't read his submission but I would like to, if you would like to send that to me I would very much welcome reading it. The supply chain of the space sector is vast and diverse as he has just alluded to, with almost 2,900 suppliers with almost 2,900 suppliers The The local The local economy The local economy and The local economy and strengthen The local economy and strengthen our communities.
Discussing the space industry here today, we are sending a clear message the UK is a competitive and supportive environment space businesses. This is not just about fostering innovation which is about ensuring jobs today, investment today and ensuring expertise remains here in the UK. Benefiting constituencies like mine. Madam Deputy Speaker, Nottinghamshire is proudly playing its part. The Sherwood Observatory its part. The Sherwood Observatory planetarium to the University of Nottingham with their area for space research, our region is a shining example of the transformative power of the space sector.
This bill is an essential piece of legislation as it addresses the current requirement for unlimited liability in cases of damages involving UK owned satellites which is inadvertently driven operators away from the UK to other countries with more favourable terms. By supporting the industry today we are not just enabling launches into orbit, we are launching a brighter future for young people, for our economy and for the UK as a whole. Collectively as a house I hope we will seize this opportunity to lead the world in space innovation while ensuring the benefits of this industry are felt in every corner of the country.
14:01
Jerome Mayhew MP (Broadland and Fakenham, Conservative)
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Jerome Mayhew MP (Broadland and Fakenham, Conservative)
Shadow Minister. Speaker. We could have proper jobs but instead we are talking about space industries and debating the importance of it in this chamber today. I also recognise the ambition of the last government when deciding which department should monitor space industries. You might have thought it would have been the science innovation and department but no we thought it should be transport. So I am delighted to stand here in front of you today Madam Deputy Speaker, to support this hidden jewel in our high-value industry.
The latest data I could find from 2023 shows the industry has revenues of the United Kingdom of £18.9 billion. It is supported by about 1,800 businesses, the vast majority of those being SMEs right across the country in all of our constituencies. Developing the small satellites which are the particular expertise of Glasgow. I think it is perhaps the first time I have had a Glasgow Mafia of MPs in the chamber, all underselling their own constituency or their own city.
Because whilst they said Glasgow is the producer of more satellites than any other city in Europe I believe the Department for Transport has said in the previous debating February 2024 it is the largest manufacturer of satellites in the world outside of California. There are 52,000 FTEs employed directly in the sector and if you add in the supply chain of about 130,000 people across the country you can see this is a very significant sector already and it is growing.
It is growing in terms of employment, at 6.7% per year. It is growing in terms of investment, again for 2023 the last year for which figures were available, there was investment of £8.85 billion into the space industry in the UK. And there is huge opportunity for more growth. The applications for small satellites are going through the roof on their way to orbit. The geography of the UK is uniquely almost uniquely suitable for low orbit satellites.
Because where as the large satellites which we are used to sending up into space need to be sent up near the equator, the lower orbits the closer you are to the North Pole makes it more suitable. The other thing we have of course is we have lots of see around us in case it all goes wrong. Additionally the increasing geopolitical uncertainty of the world makes it more important than ever that we did Malik -- we develop our domestic abilities.
It is for all of these reasons the last Conservative government backed commercial spaceflight from the UK. And created the founding instrument for the industry which was the Space Industry Act 2018. Creating the legal framework for commercial spaceflight. It followed up within 2021 the creation of a spaceflight regulator, the Civil Aviation Authority. Taking advantage I am proud to say of the genuine Brexit benefits of being able to create this regulatory environment. Far faster and in a more comprehensive fashion than our EU counterparts and friends over the water have been able to do.
This gives us a genuine commercial opportunity for rapid growth, rapid growth which we have already seen the numbers I have mentioned but a further rapid growth. But the 2018 act whilst good was not perfect. As we have seen from yesterday's news in Florida, when you do occasionally have what is described as a rapid unscheduled disassembly what goes up can come down. And when it does so it can cause loss and damage. UN space treaties make states, nationstates responsible for the loss and damage caused by space activity from their national launch from their territorial areas.
It is for this reason section 36, three A of the 2018 act passed financial responsibility away from the state and onto the operator. Requiring person carrying out spaceflight activities must indemnify His Majesty government for loss subject to any limit set out in section 12, to any limit set out in section 12, two. 12, two allows and gives power to the regulator. The Civil Aviation Authority, to set an upper limit to that indemnity. The rationale for a limit of indemnity is quite clear because without it it would be impossible for insurers to assess the quantum of risk.
That associated with an unforeseen event. If you cannot assess the quantitative risk in an actual environment in terms can no longer be insurable. Yet we have already through legislation imposed a legal duty on any space operator to have sufficient insurance. Which begs the question, what insurance is sufficient? It is this issue here which has been identified and is the genesis of the two word bill we have before us today. The problem is the wording is the capital indemnity is not mandatory but it allows for a cap.
Big investors before taking an investment decision of hundreds of millions of pounds potentially need reassurance beyond a governmental policy statement we will give them the confidence to commit large sums for investment. This bill fixes the problem. The change to section 12 returns the power to Indemnity -- returns the power to cap indemnity with the power to do so. The last government supported the Private Members Bill from the honourable member for Woking which was suspiciously similar drafting terms. That Second Reading was held on 23 February of last year.
To my great disappointment it was lost in the election wash up in the approach to July of last year. This side of the House, His Majesty loyal opposition wholeheartedly welcomed the interruption of the bill today like the introduction of the bill today. It has given us an opportunity of nothing else to rehash some of the rather painful space pens. Hansard is still reeling from last time. But it has identified if honourable members have read Hansard from February of last year.
There is a noticeable difference in the kind of space pens used. The Labour I am sorry to say it is the Trekkies, Flash Gordon, Star Wars, Conservatives the clangers. A much more patriotic one. There were other contributions which were worthy of mention from today's debate. I have already given reference to the overrepresentation from Glasgow about half of the debate there were some very serious points made, highlighting the honourable member for Glasgow East the first space lawyer in Parliament that I can think of.
The geopolitical risks, the need for satellite launch capability in the United Kingdom. The honourable member Glasgow North saying about 20% of space jobs are in Scotland and the honourable member who highlighted very properly the increased role for women in the sector and the potential to breakdown the stereotypical barriers for which I commend her. Moving south of the border, the honourable member for Luton South and South Bedfordshire had unfortunate references to both Flash Gordon and Star Wars but she did make a very serious point about the opportunities for young people in her constituency and beyond.
Moving further south still the honourable member who beyond commenting on what a time it is to be alive of which I agree with him, he may have noted the honourable member for Glasgow East previous career was charged by the hour. And that may give some explanation to the position in which we found ourselves in. All these recognise the importance, all of these contributions recognise the huge importance that space already plays in our economy. And the incredible opportunity the sector has to drive growth for all of us.
This bill does give the Minister, the member for Wakefield and Rothwell the opportunity to confirm His Majesty government despite the change in party remain fully supportive of space industries. And he remains wholly behind the government target the UK will be the leading provider of commercial small satellite launches in Europe by 2030. I congratulate the honourable member for Glasgow East for securing this debate. And proposing this legislation. Two pesky words in fact just six letters if you add them up.
Six years in the making. It does beg the question about the speed of which our legislative processes are able to operate. After the first bill own unscheduled record disassembly in the General Election I do hope this bill has a smooth liftoff and takes its place in affirmed British legislation.
The latest data I could find from 2023 shows the industry has revenues of the United Kingdom of £18.9 billion. It is supported by about 1,800 businesses, the vast majority of those being SMEs right across the country in all of our constituencies. Developing the small satellites which are the particular expertise of Glasgow. I think it is perhaps the first time I have had a Glasgow Mafia of MPs in the chamber, all underselling their own constituency or their own city.
Because whilst they said Glasgow is the producer of more satellites than any other city in Europe I believe the Department for Transport has said in the previous debating February 2024 it is the largest manufacturer of satellites in the world outside of California. There are 52,000 FTEs employed directly in the sector and if you add in the supply chain of about 130,000 people across the country you can see this is a very significant sector already and it is growing.
It is growing in terms of employment, at 6.7% per year. It is growing in terms of investment, again for 2023 the last year for which figures were available, there was investment of £8.85 billion into the space industry in the UK. And there is huge opportunity for more growth. The applications for small satellites are going through the roof on their way to orbit. The geography of the UK is uniquely almost uniquely suitable for low orbit satellites.
Because where as the large satellites which we are used to sending up into space need to be sent up near the equator, the lower orbits the closer you are to the North Pole makes it more suitable. The other thing we have of course is we have lots of see around us in case it all goes wrong. Additionally the increasing geopolitical uncertainty of the world makes it more important than ever that we did Malik -- we develop our domestic abilities.
It is for all of these reasons the last Conservative government backed commercial spaceflight from the UK. And created the founding instrument for the industry which was the Space Industry Act 2018. Creating the legal framework for commercial spaceflight. It followed up within 2021 the creation of a spaceflight regulator, the Civil Aviation Authority. Taking advantage I am proud to say of the genuine Brexit benefits of being able to create this regulatory environment. Far faster and in a more comprehensive fashion than our EU counterparts and friends over the water have been able to do.
This gives us a genuine commercial opportunity for rapid growth, rapid growth which we have already seen the numbers I have mentioned but a further rapid growth. But the 2018 act whilst good was not perfect. As we have seen from yesterday's news in Florida, when you do occasionally have what is described as a rapid unscheduled disassembly what goes up can come down. And when it does so it can cause loss and damage. UN space treaties make states, nationstates responsible for the loss and damage caused by space activity from their national launch from their territorial areas.
It is for this reason section 36, three A of the 2018 act passed financial responsibility away from the state and onto the operator. Requiring person carrying out spaceflight activities must indemnify His Majesty government for loss subject to any limit set out in section 12, to any limit set out in section 12, two. 12, two allows and gives power to the regulator. The Civil Aviation Authority, to set an upper limit to that indemnity. The rationale for a limit of indemnity is quite clear because without it it would be impossible for insurers to assess the quantum of risk.
That associated with an unforeseen event. If you cannot assess the quantitative risk in an actual environment in terms can no longer be insurable. Yet we have already through legislation imposed a legal duty on any space operator to have sufficient insurance. Which begs the question, what insurance is sufficient? It is this issue here which has been identified and is the genesis of the two word bill we have before us today. The problem is the wording is the capital indemnity is not mandatory but it allows for a cap.
Big investors before taking an investment decision of hundreds of millions of pounds potentially need reassurance beyond a governmental policy statement we will give them the confidence to commit large sums for investment. This bill fixes the problem. The change to section 12 returns the power to Indemnity -- returns the power to cap indemnity with the power to do so. The last government supported the Private Members Bill from the honourable member for Woking which was suspiciously similar drafting terms. That Second Reading was held on 23 February of last year.
To my great disappointment it was lost in the election wash up in the approach to July of last year. This side of the House, His Majesty loyal opposition wholeheartedly welcomed the interruption of the bill today like the introduction of the bill today. It has given us an opportunity of nothing else to rehash some of the rather painful space pens. Hansard is still reeling from last time. But it has identified if honourable members have read Hansard from February of last year.
There is a noticeable difference in the kind of space pens used. The Labour I am sorry to say it is the Trekkies, Flash Gordon, Star Wars, Conservatives the clangers. A much more patriotic one. There were other contributions which were worthy of mention from today's debate. I have already given reference to the overrepresentation from Glasgow about half of the debate there were some very serious points made, highlighting the honourable member for Glasgow East the first space lawyer in Parliament that I can think of.
The geopolitical risks, the need for satellite launch capability in the United Kingdom. The honourable member Glasgow North saying about 20% of space jobs are in Scotland and the honourable member who highlighted very properly the increased role for women in the sector and the potential to breakdown the stereotypical barriers for which I commend her. Moving south of the border, the honourable member for Luton South and South Bedfordshire had unfortunate references to both Flash Gordon and Star Wars but she did make a very serious point about the opportunities for young people in her constituency and beyond.
Moving further south still the honourable member who beyond commenting on what a time it is to be alive of which I agree with him, he may have noted the honourable member for Glasgow East previous career was charged by the hour. And that may give some explanation to the position in which we found ourselves in. All these recognise the importance, all of these contributions recognise the huge importance that space already plays in our economy. And the incredible opportunity the sector has to drive growth for all of us.
This bill does give the Minister, the member for Wakefield and Rothwell the opportunity to confirm His Majesty government despite the change in party remain fully supportive of space industries. And he remains wholly behind the government target the UK will be the leading provider of commercial small satellite launches in Europe by 2030. I congratulate the honourable member for Glasgow East for securing this debate. And proposing this legislation. Two pesky words in fact just six letters if you add them up.
Six years in the making. It does beg the question about the speed of which our legislative processes are able to operate. After the first bill own unscheduled record disassembly in the General Election I do hope this bill has a smooth liftoff and takes its place in affirmed British legislation.
14:11
Simon Lightwood MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Department for Transport) (Wakefield and Rothwell, Labour )
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Simon Lightwood MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Department for Transport) (Wakefield and Rothwell, Labour )
I call the Minister.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Thank you. May I first of all thank the honourable member, my thank the honourable member, my honourable friend for Glasgow East for bringing this short but crucial for bringing this short but crucial bill before the House. May I also commend my honourable friend for delivering such a brilliant and delivering such a brilliant and informative speech. I encouraging from moment to cling on for as long from moment to cling on for as long as he did in his speech. Some are calling the rocketman of Parliament.
I thank all of the other members who I thank all of the other members who have spoken in today's debate. Speaking of stars, may I also wish the member for Beckenham and Penge very happy birthday for yesterday. I hope you had a stellar time. I am pleased to confirm this has the full support of the government. Before I begin let me outline some general observation about the UK and spaceflight. The U.K.'s approach to launch positions in the UK as a leading international Parliament my partner in the space sector and the Europe access to space.
The Department, innovation and technology has responsibility for coordinating civil space policy. Working closely with the departments across government to ensure space services can support their needs. And space science and research can act as an enabler across the economy while building wider licks with the strong signs ecosystem to achieve our ambition the government is investing over £57 million through the launch UK program to grow new UK bar codes -- UK markets... And small orbital spaceflight. In terms of regulatory reform the UK has one of the most advanced and trusted modern space regulatory frameworks.
In the world. On 8 October D6 and the Secretary of State announced a new regulatory in, the RIO to reduce the burden of red tape and speed of access to new technologies that access to new technologies that improve our daily lives. The RIO has made space one of its top priorities and we look forward to working with them on our wider regulatory reforms to enable innovation. This government is implementing a serious of egg -- series of regular to reforms after the publication in May 2024 of the space review.
Government has worked for the sector to determine a priority approach to the reforms to back size -- maximise growth, innovation and potential for this sector. One involves the implementation of a regulatory sandbox to stress test the framework and the proximity operations the sandbox commenced in October 2024. With stage one due to be complete in March 2025. Providing vital recommendations to enable growth of these novel missions and strengthen the U.K.'s capabilities. We are also exploring financial tools, incentives and market access schemes that promote sustainable activities and include self investment, inward investment and support A-level playing field for young -- for UK companies.
Alongside a regulatory reform package we are also developing a range of new innovative regulatory measures to support growth of the UK sector, new mission types and incentivise the uptake of space sustainability measures. As my honourable friend said the bill will amend two sections of the Space Industry Act 2018. To provide legal certainty that all space might operate licences include limits on the amount of operators liability to the government under section 36 of the 2018 act. This short but crucial bill will go far far away to encourage much-needed investment into the sector.
Before I outlined by the government of fully supportive of this bill and boldly going where no man has gone before. I will briefly outline some of the U.K.'s achievements in spaceflight. On 9 January the UK made history by conducting the first ever orbital launch attempt from UK soil through Virgin Orbit and space Port in Cornwall. Demonstrating the U.K.'s growing launch keep ability and position as a spacefaring nation. In the summer 2023 the spaceport on the Shetland Islands became the U.K.'s first vertical launch site to receive a spaceport license in January 2025 rocket factory ops on became the U.K.'s first licensed The U.K.'s approach approach to launch positions as the UK is a leading international partner in the space sector.
Scotland makes a vital contribution to the wider UK space ecosystem my Scotland space sector is home to advanced satellite manufacturing capabilities, and as a -- has a fast growing satellite log. That Glasgow builds more small satellites than anywhere outside of California. The UK is now the second most attractive destination for commercial space investment after the outer states. This government has made it clear that unlocking growth is vital to rebuilding the UK and supporting high-tech jobs which unlocks investment and improves living standards across the country.
We are capitalising on the U.K.'s excellence in science and innovation to ensure a world-class research translates to commercial success, rebalancing the system and setting up the financial services sector to innovate, grow and seize the opportunity for investment in business, infrastructure and clean energy across Britain. The space sector is hugely valuable to the U.K.'s economy. It's worth over £18.9 billion and directly employs more than 52,000 people. It supports over 126,000 jobs across the supply chain. At least 346 billion of the UK GDP is supported by satellite services such as navigation, meteorology, human communications and earth observation.
It is now possible to launch satellites from UK space ports rather than relying solely on overseas space ports to launch UK built satellite that makes our sites into orbital stop as previously mentioned in January 23 virgin orbits conducted a historic first launch from the UK. Spaceport Cornwall. In December 23 spaceport in the Shetland Islands became the first licensed vertical launch spaceport. This year hope to witness U.K.'s first vertical launch by German company rocket factory's Borg. With more to follow.
Growing our launch capability is already creating high skilled jobs and opportunities in communities right across the UK, as well as catalysing investment across the supply chain. The government is investing in new launch companies such as all backs who have built factories in Scotland creating hundreds of new jobs. Ready to take advantage of the new opportunities that the government have created. The spaceport anticipate that by 2025 the spaceport side could support a total of 650 jobs in Scotland, including 140 locally and 210 across the wider Shetland region.
Other launch operators such as a UK company based in Glasgow is already thriving and have also indicated that they will conduct its first suborbital launch from the UK in the near future. UK space industry already supports an industrial base of over 1,500 space companies, provides high skill, high quality jobs across the UK. With over 77% of employees holding at least a primary degree. Building on the success of the UK space sector the government will continue to support business through a stable policy environment, strengthening our economic institutions and giving investors the certainty that they need to feel -- fuel growth.
The government recognises the important contribution in the space sector that it has an ordinary people's lives. Growth is the number one mission of this government and this bill has the potential to drive growth within the sector by encouraging further investment. It's important that the UK builds on the current successes of an already thriving and dynamic space sector. This government is delivering our plan for change, with investment and reform to deliver growth. We will ensure through the measures this government is taking to deliver growth the UK becomes a leading provider of commercial small satellite launches in Europe by 2020 to that by 2030.
To achieve our ambition government continues to support space pause and launch operators to grow new UK markets for small satellite launchers and suborbital space flights. The government is committed to making improvements to both the Space Industry Act in 2015 and the space industry regulations to ensure our legal framework frameworks become desperate remain effective and competitive. The UK is one of the most advanced and trusted modern space regular to reframe in the world. Let's explore for a moment what liabilities are covered by the Space Industry Act, there are two types of liability covered, section 34 places a strict liability for industry does make injury or damage caused to persons or property on land or water in the UK or in the territorial sea to the UK or an aircraft in flight over such land would foresee such as persons, property on such aircraft by a craft or space object being used by an operator carrying the spaceflight activities in the UK.
The uninvolved general public suffering injury or damage can bring a claim against the operator without having to prove fault. Section 36 places a liability on the operator carrying on a spaceflight activities to indemnify UK government or personal body listed in section 36 two for any claims brought against an philosopher or damage caused by those activities. Therefore UK nationals at the same easy recourse to compensation and protections foreign nationals have under the UN liability convention. The government of course recognises that the question of liability and insurance is of utmost concern to the space sector.
In response to a consultation on the draft then space industry regulations and 2020 and the call for evidence to inform orbital liability insurance policy in October 2021, industry make clear that holding Ltd liabilities will have an adverse effect on UK spaceflight industry. Industries advise it is impossible to obtain insurance for an unlimited amount and therefore impossible to obtain insurance to provide full coverage of an operator's liability to indemnify. Government and liability to uninvolved third parties, furthermore potential liabilities for spaceflight are not easily quantifiable.
So if government did not limit the spaceflight operator's liability, spaceflight companies and investors would instead look to more favourable regulatory teams in other countries where government shared the risks involved by limiting an operator's liability or by offering state guarantees. Such as in the outer states or in France. -- United States. There are powers in the Space Industry Act to limit a spaceflight operator's liability when carrying out spaceflight activities from the UK. The 2018 act enables commercial spaceflight activities which include launching a spacecraft and operating a satellite in orbit for example, or other activities such as the operation of a spacecraft and management of a range to be carried out under licence in the active kingdom.
The licence in the active kingdom. The 2018 act -- United Kingdom. Abroad regular to framework for such activities and is underpinned with more detailed provisions in the space industry regulations 2021. 2018 act provides powers for the regulator to specify limits on the amount of the operators liabilities in their licence, but the act does not make it mandatory for a company under section 12 two of that act provides an operator licence to specify limits on the amount of licensees liability to indemnify under section 36.
Government policy is that they should use these powers to specify a limit on operator liability in the licence so no operator will face unlimited liability. The government fully supports this bill and its going forward, it's consistent with the policy that all spaceflight licences should have a limited liability, it will not therefore impose any additional liability or risk on UK taxpayers compared to current policy. The government also recognises the value that industry places and having legislative certainty on this matter.
The SpaceX are continually expresses its concerns about the use of the word may in section 12 to of the Space Industry Act therefore I am grateful to my honourable friend for this bill which by amending 12 two of the Space Industry Act will be the key request from the second. In closing, as a Wakefield and Rothwell MP let me pay tribute to a proud Yorkshireman and the inter-cosmic former captain of the USS Enterprise Patrick Stewart. With Star Trek the Next Generation of course being by far the best iteration of the Star Trek franchise.
I will leave you with this. Space, the final frontier. These are the voyages of the UK governments. Our continuing missions, to kickstart economic growth and make Britain a clean energy superpower. To seek out breaking down barriers to opportunity and take back austerity and to boldly build an NHS fit for the future. And with that, make it
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so. The question is the bill be now read a second time. As many are of read a second time. As many are of that opinion say, "Aye", and of the contrary, "No". The "Ayes" have it.
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Military Action Bill Second Reading. Order. The member in charge has given instruction earlier today he wishes to defer his bill Friday, 4 July and will not move Second July and will not move Second Reading on his bill today full stop we will therefore move onto the next bill set down today.
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Faces bill Second Reading. Caroline.
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I beg to move that the bill now
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I beg to move that the bill now be read a second time. I am honoured to rise to present my bill to create an office for green spaces, a government office that will promote action my access to Greenspace across the UK. It will support the creation maintenance improvement and creation maintenance improvement and integration of green spaces and by doing so will improve the health and doing so will improve the health and well-being of the UK, add up to £3.8 billion to tax revenues, contribute to our net zero journey and create to our net zero journey and create tens of thousands of jobs.
It's a win and you can object to more people than ever being able to lie under a tree or feel the grass beneath their feet. 81% of British adults agree that gardens in Greenspace is benefit their physical health and 85% of adults agree gardens benefit the state of mind.
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Thank you. May I first of all thank the honourable member, my thank the honourable member, my honourable friend for Glasgow East for bringing this short but crucial for bringing this short but crucial bill before the House. May I also commend my honourable friend for delivering such a brilliant and delivering such a brilliant and informative speech. I encouraging from moment to cling on for as long from moment to cling on for as long as he did in his speech. Some are calling the rocketman of Parliament.
I thank all of the other members who I thank all of the other members who have spoken in today's debate. Speaking of stars, may I also wish the member for Beckenham and Penge very happy birthday for yesterday. I hope you had a stellar time. I am pleased to confirm this has the full support of the government. Before I begin let me outline some general observation about the UK and spaceflight. The U.K.'s approach to launch positions in the UK as a leading international Parliament my partner in the space sector and the Europe access to space.
The Department, innovation and technology has responsibility for coordinating civil space policy. Working closely with the departments across government to ensure space services can support their needs. And space science and research can act as an enabler across the economy while building wider licks with the strong signs ecosystem to achieve our ambition the government is investing over £57 million through the launch UK program to grow new UK bar codes -- UK markets... And small orbital spaceflight. In terms of regulatory reform the UK has one of the most advanced and trusted modern space regulatory frameworks.
In the world. On 8 October D6 and the Secretary of State announced a new regulatory in, the RIO to reduce the burden of red tape and speed of access to new technologies that access to new technologies that improve our daily lives. The RIO has made space one of its top priorities and we look forward to working with them on our wider regulatory reforms to enable innovation. This government is implementing a serious of egg -- series of regular to reforms after the publication in May 2024 of the space review.
Government has worked for the sector to determine a priority approach to the reforms to back size -- maximise growth, innovation and potential for this sector. One involves the implementation of a regulatory sandbox to stress test the framework and the proximity operations the sandbox commenced in October 2024. With stage one due to be complete in March 2025. Providing vital recommendations to enable growth of these novel missions and strengthen the U.K.'s capabilities. We are also exploring financial tools, incentives and market access schemes that promote sustainable activities and include self investment, inward investment and support A-level playing field for young -- for UK companies.
Alongside a regulatory reform package we are also developing a range of new innovative regulatory measures to support growth of the UK sector, new mission types and incentivise the uptake of space sustainability measures. As my honourable friend said the bill will amend two sections of the Space Industry Act 2018. To provide legal certainty that all space might operate licences include limits on the amount of operators liability to the government under section 36 of the 2018 act. This short but crucial bill will go far far away to encourage much-needed investment into the sector.
Before I outlined by the government of fully supportive of this bill and boldly going where no man has gone before. I will briefly outline some of the U.K.'s achievements in spaceflight. On 9 January the UK made history by conducting the first ever orbital launch attempt from UK soil through Virgin Orbit and space Port in Cornwall. Demonstrating the U.K.'s growing launch keep ability and position as a spacefaring nation. In the summer 2023 the spaceport on the Shetland Islands became the U.K.'s first vertical launch site to receive a spaceport license in January 2025 rocket factory ops on became the U.K.'s first licensed The U.K.'s approach approach to launch positions as the UK is a leading international partner in the space sector.
Scotland makes a vital contribution to the wider UK space ecosystem my Scotland space sector is home to advanced satellite manufacturing capabilities, and as a -- has a fast growing satellite log. That Glasgow builds more small satellites than anywhere outside of California. The UK is now the second most attractive destination for commercial space investment after the outer states. This government has made it clear that unlocking growth is vital to rebuilding the UK and supporting high-tech jobs which unlocks investment and improves living standards across the country.
We are capitalising on the U.K.'s excellence in science and innovation to ensure a world-class research translates to commercial success, rebalancing the system and setting up the financial services sector to innovate, grow and seize the opportunity for investment in business, infrastructure and clean energy across Britain. The space sector is hugely valuable to the U.K.'s economy. It's worth over £18.9 billion and directly employs more than 52,000 people. It supports over 126,000 jobs across the supply chain. At least 346 billion of the UK GDP is supported by satellite services such as navigation, meteorology, human communications and earth observation.
It is now possible to launch satellites from UK space ports rather than relying solely on overseas space ports to launch UK built satellite that makes our sites into orbital stop as previously mentioned in January 23 virgin orbits conducted a historic first launch from the UK. Spaceport Cornwall. In December 23 spaceport in the Shetland Islands became the first licensed vertical launch spaceport. This year hope to witness U.K.'s first vertical launch by German company rocket factory's Borg. With more to follow.
Growing our launch capability is already creating high skilled jobs and opportunities in communities right across the UK, as well as catalysing investment across the supply chain. The government is investing in new launch companies such as all backs who have built factories in Scotland creating hundreds of new jobs. Ready to take advantage of the new opportunities that the government have created. The spaceport anticipate that by 2025 the spaceport side could support a total of 650 jobs in Scotland, including 140 locally and 210 across the wider Shetland region.
Other launch operators such as a UK company based in Glasgow is already thriving and have also indicated that they will conduct its first suborbital launch from the UK in the near future. UK space industry already supports an industrial base of over 1,500 space companies, provides high skill, high quality jobs across the UK. With over 77% of employees holding at least a primary degree. Building on the success of the UK space sector the government will continue to support business through a stable policy environment, strengthening our economic institutions and giving investors the certainty that they need to feel -- fuel growth.
The government recognises the important contribution in the space sector that it has an ordinary people's lives. Growth is the number one mission of this government and this bill has the potential to drive growth within the sector by encouraging further investment. It's important that the UK builds on the current successes of an already thriving and dynamic space sector. This government is delivering our plan for change, with investment and reform to deliver growth. We will ensure through the measures this government is taking to deliver growth the UK becomes a leading provider of commercial small satellite launches in Europe by 2020 to that by 2030.
To achieve our ambition government continues to support space pause and launch operators to grow new UK markets for small satellite launchers and suborbital space flights. The government is committed to making improvements to both the Space Industry Act in 2015 and the space industry regulations to ensure our legal framework frameworks become desperate remain effective and competitive. The UK is one of the most advanced and trusted modern space regular to reframe in the world. Let's explore for a moment what liabilities are covered by the Space Industry Act, there are two types of liability covered, section 34 places a strict liability for industry does make injury or damage caused to persons or property on land or water in the UK or in the territorial sea to the UK or an aircraft in flight over such land would foresee such as persons, property on such aircraft by a craft or space object being used by an operator carrying the spaceflight activities in the UK.
The uninvolved general public suffering injury or damage can bring a claim against the operator without having to prove fault. Section 36 places a liability on the operator carrying on a spaceflight activities to indemnify UK government or personal body listed in section 36 two for any claims brought against an philosopher or damage caused by those activities. Therefore UK nationals at the same easy recourse to compensation and protections foreign nationals have under the UN liability convention. The government of course recognises that the question of liability and insurance is of utmost concern to the space sector.
In response to a consultation on the draft then space industry regulations and 2020 and the call for evidence to inform orbital liability insurance policy in October 2021, industry make clear that holding Ltd liabilities will have an adverse effect on UK spaceflight industry. Industries advise it is impossible to obtain insurance for an unlimited amount and therefore impossible to obtain insurance to provide full coverage of an operator's liability to indemnify. Government and liability to uninvolved third parties, furthermore potential liabilities for spaceflight are not easily quantifiable.
So if government did not limit the spaceflight operator's liability, spaceflight companies and investors would instead look to more favourable regulatory teams in other countries where government shared the risks involved by limiting an operator's liability or by offering state guarantees. Such as in the outer states or in France. -- United States. There are powers in the Space Industry Act to limit a spaceflight operator's liability when carrying out spaceflight activities from the UK. The 2018 act enables commercial spaceflight activities which include launching a spacecraft and operating a satellite in orbit for example, or other activities such as the operation of a spacecraft and management of a range to be carried out under licence in the active kingdom.
The licence in the active kingdom. The 2018 act -- United Kingdom. Abroad regular to framework for such activities and is underpinned with more detailed provisions in the space industry regulations 2021. 2018 act provides powers for the regulator to specify limits on the amount of the operators liabilities in their licence, but the act does not make it mandatory for a company under section 12 two of that act provides an operator licence to specify limits on the amount of licensees liability to indemnify under section 36.
Government policy is that they should use these powers to specify a limit on operator liability in the licence so no operator will face unlimited liability. The government fully supports this bill and its going forward, it's consistent with the policy that all spaceflight licences should have a limited liability, it will not therefore impose any additional liability or risk on UK taxpayers compared to current policy. The government also recognises the value that industry places and having legislative certainty on this matter.
The SpaceX are continually expresses its concerns about the use of the word may in section 12 to of the Space Industry Act therefore I am grateful to my honourable friend for this bill which by amending 12 two of the Space Industry Act will be the key request from the second. In closing, as a Wakefield and Rothwell MP let me pay tribute to a proud Yorkshireman and the inter-cosmic former captain of the USS Enterprise Patrick Stewart. With Star Trek the Next Generation of course being by far the best iteration of the Star Trek franchise.
I will leave you with this. Space, the final frontier. These are the voyages of the UK governments. Our continuing missions, to kickstart economic growth and make Britain a clean energy superpower. To seek out breaking down barriers to opportunity and take back austerity and to boldly build an NHS fit for the future. And with that, make it
**** Possible New Speaker ****
so. The question is the bill be now read a second time. As many are of read a second time. As many are of that opinion say, "Aye", and of the contrary, "No". The "Ayes" have it.
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Military Action Bill Second Reading. Order. The member in charge has given instruction earlier today he wishes to defer his bill Friday, 4 July and will not move Second July and will not move Second Reading on his bill today full stop we will therefore move onto the next bill set down today.
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Faces bill Second Reading. Caroline.
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I beg to move that the bill now
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I beg to move that the bill now be read a second time. I am honoured to rise to present my bill to create an office for green spaces, a government office that will promote action my access to Greenspace across the UK. It will support the creation maintenance improvement and creation maintenance improvement and integration of green spaces and by doing so will improve the health and doing so will improve the health and well-being of the UK, add up to £3.8 billion to tax revenues, contribute to our net zero journey and create to our net zero journey and create tens of thousands of jobs.
It's a win and you can object to more people than ever being able to lie under a tree or feel the grass beneath their feet. 81% of British adults agree that gardens in Greenspace is benefit their physical health and 85% of adults agree gardens benefit the state of mind.
14:27
Caroline Voaden MP (South Devon, Liberal Democrat)
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Caroline Voaden MP (South Devon, Liberal Democrat)
Green spaces and gardens can provide real natural healthcare solutions, urban vegetation removes harmful pollutants and urban cooling from green and blue spaces is vital in a warming world and estimated to be worth £27 billion according to the Under the bill Greenspace is include urban parks, neighbourhood areas and significant natural landscapes. I believe a coordinated cross government approach is sorely needed, Greenspace is must be a needed, Greenspace is must be a priority as our planning policies develop and the Liberal Democrats want to see more Greenspace is being covered in native trees and wildflowers.
The previous EFRA site committee and the light House of Lords horticulture Society backed cross government action last year the committee said both the quality and quantity of green spaces were on the decline and urgent action was needed to reverse this. We are lucky to have Monty Don, Alan Titchmarsh and Charlie Dimmock to inspire us with our gardens but the UK is one of the most nature depleted countries in the world as the MP for South Devon I'm very aware of how important and beneficial Greenspace is.
I feel it every weekend. Two in five adults spend less than an hour per day outdoors while more than half don't have access to a public park or common within walking distance. We need to do so much better, the U.K.'s gardens, parks and green corridors are not just like to have immunities they are -- manatees. The office for green spaces would bring together planning health environment and other departments to work together to deliver real growth in our Green Spaces Bill top by establishing this dedicated government office to oversee and champion the spaces we can secure their future and unlock their full potential people are communities, businesses and the public purse.
The previous EFRA site committee and the light House of Lords horticulture Society backed cross government action last year the committee said both the quality and quantity of green spaces were on the decline and urgent action was needed to reverse this. We are lucky to have Monty Don, Alan Titchmarsh and Charlie Dimmock to inspire us with our gardens but the UK is one of the most nature depleted countries in the world as the MP for South Devon I'm very aware of how important and beneficial Greenspace is.
I feel it every weekend. Two in five adults spend less than an hour per day outdoors while more than half don't have access to a public park or common within walking distance. We need to do so much better, the U.K.'s gardens, parks and green corridors are not just like to have immunities they are -- manatees. The office for green spaces would bring together planning health environment and other departments to work together to deliver real growth in our Green Spaces Bill top by establishing this dedicated government office to oversee and champion the spaces we can secure their future and unlock their full potential people are communities, businesses and the public purse.
14:29
Matthew Pennycook MP, Minister of State (Housing, Communities and Local Government) (Greenwich and Woolwich, Labour)
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Matthew Pennycook MP, Minister of State (Housing, Communities and Local Government) (Greenwich and Woolwich, Labour)
The question is that the bill is now read a second time. Minister.
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Thank you, can I again by thanking the honourable lady the Member for South Devon for tabling this bill. And for giving the House this bill. And for giving the House a chance to both consider and to re-emphasise the importance of our re-emphasise the importance of our shared Greenspace is. Parks and Greenspace's are an essential part of our local and social of our local and social infrastructure. The government is firmly...
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Order. Second Reading what day? 20th of June.
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20th of June. 20th of June for the Statutory Instruments act 1946
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Objection taken. Second Reading
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what day? Friday, 14 March.
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Friday, 14 March. Dangerous Dogs Act 1991
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(Amendment) Bill, Second Reading? Objection. Objection taken. Second Reading
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what day? Friday, 14 March.
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Friday, 14 March.
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Domestic energy Bill. -- Domestic Energy (Value Added Tax) Bill. Objection.
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Second Reading what day. Freddie 14 March. Four BBC Licence Fee Non-Payment (Decriminilisation for Over-75s) (Decriminilisation for Over-75s)
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Bill. Second Reading? Now. Objection taken full Second Reading what day? Controlled Drugs (Procedure for Specification) Bill. Second Reading?
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Now. Question is the Bill be now read
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a second time As many as are of that opinion, say, "Aye". Of the contrary, "No". The ayes have it. The ayes have it. Quantitative Easing (Prohibition)
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Bill. Second Reading. Now. Objection.
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Objection. Objection taken. Second Reading what day? Friday, 14 March.
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Friday, 14 March. Order. Public Bill Office and you
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Order. Public Bill Office and you know fault of the member in charge the next bill on the order paper for today has not been printed.
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today has not been printed. Therefore cannot be moved today. We will therefore move on to the next bill set down for today. Pets (Microchips) Bill. Second Reading.
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Now. Objection taken. Second Reading
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what day? Friday, 14 March.
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Friday, 14 March. COVID-19 Vaccine Damage Payment bill. Second Reading.
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bill. Second Reading. Objection taken. Second Reading what day?
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what day? Friday, 14 March. Credit 14
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March. Anonymity of Suspects Bill. Second Reading? Objection. Objection taken. Second Reading what day?
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Friday, 14 March.
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Children's Clothing (Value Added Tax) Bill. Second Reading. I beg to move. Objection. Objection taken. Second Reading what day?
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what day? Friday, 14 March. Friday, 14 March. Child Criminal
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Friday, 14 March. Child Criminal Exploitation (No. 2) Bill. Second Reading.
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Reading. Now. Objection taken. Second Reading
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what day? Friday, 14 March. Highways Act 1980 (Amendment) Bill. Second Reading. Objection taken. Second Reading
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what day? Friday, 14 March. Friday, 14
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March. British Broadcasting Corporation
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British Broadcasting Corporation (Privatisation) Bill. Second Reading full
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what day? Four Friday, 14 March. Friday, 14 March. Immigration offences Mac. Second
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Reading. what day? Friday, 14 March.
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Friday the 40 the much. Unauthorised Entry to Football
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Matches Bill. Second Reading. The question is the Bill be now read a second time. As many as are of that opinion, say, "Aye". Of the contrary, "No". The ayes have it.
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The ayes have it. Vaccine Damage Payments Act (Review) Bill. Second Reading. Object.
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Object. Objection taken. Second Reading what day? Friday, 14 March.
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Friday, 14 March. NHS alternative treatment Mac.
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NHS alternative treatment Mac. Second Mac. -- NHS alternative treatment Mac. Second Reading what
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day?. Objection. Objection taken. Second Reading what day?
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Friday, 14 March. Terminal Illness (Relief of Pain)
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Terminal Illness (Relief of Pain) Bill. Second Reading. Objection taken. Second Reading what day?
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what day? Friday, 14 March.
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COVID-19 vaccine damage bill. Objection taken. Second Reading what day? Friday, 14 March. Marriage (Prohibited Degrees of Relationship)
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Bill. Second Reading? Objection taken. Second Reading what day?
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Friday, 14 March. Friday, 14 March. I beg to move
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this House do now adjourn. The question is this House do now adjourn.
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adjourn. Thank you very much. I am very grateful to have been given this grateful to have been given this opportunity this afternoon to raise an extremely important matter to my constituents in the rebuilding of
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Thank you, can I again by thanking the honourable lady the Member for South Devon for tabling this bill. And for giving the House this bill. And for giving the House a chance to both consider and to re-emphasise the importance of our re-emphasise the importance of our shared Greenspace is. Parks and Greenspace's are an essential part of our local and social of our local and social infrastructure. The government is firmly...
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Order. Second Reading what day? 20th of June.
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20th of June. 20th of June for the Statutory Instruments act 1946
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Objection taken. Second Reading
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what day? Friday, 14 March.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Friday, 14 March. Dangerous Dogs Act 1991
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(Amendment) Bill, Second Reading? Objection. Objection taken. Second Reading
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what day? Friday, 14 March.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Friday, 14 March.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
Domestic energy Bill. -- Domestic Energy (Value Added Tax) Bill. Objection.
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Second Reading what day. Freddie 14 March. Four BBC Licence Fee Non-Payment (Decriminilisation for Over-75s) (Decriminilisation for Over-75s)
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Bill. Second Reading? Now. Objection taken full Second Reading what day? Controlled Drugs (Procedure for Specification) Bill. Second Reading?
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Now. Question is the Bill be now read
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a second time As many as are of that opinion, say, "Aye". Of the contrary, "No". The ayes have it. The ayes have it. Quantitative Easing (Prohibition)
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Bill. Second Reading. Now. Objection.
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Objection. Objection taken. Second Reading what day? Friday, 14 March.
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Friday, 14 March. Order. Public Bill Office and you
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Order. Public Bill Office and you know fault of the member in charge the next bill on the order paper for today has not been printed.
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today has not been printed. Therefore cannot be moved today. We will therefore move on to the next bill set down for today. Pets (Microchips) Bill. Second Reading.
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Now. Objection taken. Second Reading
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what day? Friday, 14 March.
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Friday, 14 March. COVID-19 Vaccine Damage Payment bill. Second Reading.
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bill. Second Reading. Objection taken. Second Reading what day?
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what day? Friday, 14 March. Credit 14
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March. Anonymity of Suspects Bill. Second Reading? Objection. Objection taken. Second Reading what day?
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Friday, 14 March.
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Children's Clothing (Value Added Tax) Bill. Second Reading. I beg to move. Objection. Objection taken. Second Reading what day?
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what day? Friday, 14 March. Friday, 14 March. Child Criminal
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Friday, 14 March. Child Criminal Exploitation (No. 2) Bill. Second Reading.
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Reading. Now. Objection taken. Second Reading
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what day? Friday, 14 March. Highways Act 1980 (Amendment) Bill. Second Reading. Objection taken. Second Reading
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what day? Friday, 14 March. Friday, 14
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March. British Broadcasting Corporation
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British Broadcasting Corporation (Privatisation) Bill. Second Reading full
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what day? Four Friday, 14 March. Friday, 14 March. Immigration offences Mac. Second
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Reading. what day? Friday, 14 March.
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Friday the 40 the much. Unauthorised Entry to Football
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Matches Bill. Second Reading. The question is the Bill be now read a second time. As many as are of that opinion, say, "Aye". Of the contrary, "No". The ayes have it.
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The ayes have it. Vaccine Damage Payments Act (Review) Bill. Second Reading. Object.
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Object. Objection taken. Second Reading what day? Friday, 14 March.
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Friday, 14 March. NHS alternative treatment Mac.
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NHS alternative treatment Mac. Second Mac. -- NHS alternative treatment Mac. Second Reading what
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day?. Objection. Objection taken. Second Reading what day?
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Friday, 14 March. Terminal Illness (Relief of Pain)
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Terminal Illness (Relief of Pain) Bill. Second Reading. Objection taken. Second Reading what day?
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what day? Friday, 14 March.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
COVID-19 vaccine damage bill. Objection taken. Second Reading what day? Friday, 14 March. Marriage (Prohibited Degrees of Relationship)
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Bill. Second Reading? Objection taken. Second Reading what day?
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Friday, 14 March. Friday, 14 March. I beg to move
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this House do now adjourn. The question is this House do now adjourn.
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adjourn. Thank you very much. I am very grateful to have been given this grateful to have been given this opportunity this afternoon to raise an extremely important matter to my constituents in the rebuilding of
14:35
Adjournment: Rebuilding of Wickford station
Matthew Pennycook MP, Minister of State (Housing, Communities and Local Government) (Greenwich and Woolwich, Labour)
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Adjournment: Rebuilding of Wickford station
Matthew Pennycook MP, Minister of State (Housing, Communities and Local Government) (Greenwich and Woolwich, Labour)
constituents in the rebuilding of Wickford station. I appreciate the Wickford station. I appreciate the realm of this sits in the House of Lords we cannot be present to respond to this debate and I'm very grateful to his Ministerial Code, the local transport and is being present in Louis XV. -- In lieu. When I can imagine he also had pressing demands from his
14:35
Rt Hon Mark Francois MP (Rayleigh and Wickford, Conservative)
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Rt Hon Mark Francois MP (Rayleigh and Wickford, Conservative)
constituency so thank you. Perhaps before I get into the matter of the station itself, for context I could station itself, for context I could explain to the Minister what and why this proposal development is so important for the regeneration of Wickford which is the second largest Wickford which is the second largest town in my constituency for top --. In essence my constituents who live there have been through a tough time there have been through a tough time over the last few years since the COVID pandemic.
Have seen a number of banks closing on the High Street, in addition to several other retail in addition to several other retail outlets and the footfall of the High Street is not as high as the local traders would like. The police station has been closed several years ago with an understanding the local authority have plans to redevelop the site as a community hub. In addition we used to have two medium-sized supermarkets in the town, a relatively new one run by algae and more long-standing one run by Co-op.
Unfortunately the Co-op store closed several years ago whilst algae did demolish McNulty demolish their store and the net effect of this was that over a year the town had so -- no supermarket of its own other than the small Iceland on the High Street. This meant my constituents often had to travel some distance in order to conduct their weekly shop. On top of this there have been quite a number of flats built in the town the past few years.
Which has meant we have lost quite a lot of car parking space, particularly as a large part of the towns main car park located next to the old Co-op site has been cornered. This making the town a more difficult place to visit for those who have to come via car is opposed by rail. I am pleased to report algae rebuild to the store which is at the bottom of the shallow slope leading directly down from Wickford station itself. I had the honour of reopening the store back in November 2023.
In addition the developers who opened the Co-op site which is a five minute walk from the station have now submitted planning permission from the council to demolish it and build a brand-new store with a number of lowrise flats on top. We are very hopeful they will succeed in agreeing a lease with a major supermarket chain. The name of which I have been asked not to mention because the negotiations have not been concluded. Suffice to say it is an open secret across the entire town who it is.
I very much hope these negotiations will come rapidly to a close and the company concerned can make a formal announcement. Lastly they have been -- there have been a considerable number of roadworks in Wickford of the last few years. Some of which have unfortunately badly overrun including some not far from Wickford station itself. Five fast -- by far the worst transgressor and in this regard arcaded. Who principally maintained gas infrastructure who had further plans in Wickford and other parts of my constituency including Hockley.
Other residents are so fed up with endless roadworks some have nicknamed them the village Lockley instead. In my experience this company often start late and clock of early which means their work takes far longer than other wise necessary. They are one of the least productive companies I have ever seen. As I'm here in front of the Transport Minister I cannot tell him how appallingly they have behaved in regard to my constituents. I hope something we can follow up on separately, perhaps with his colleague the roads Minister, the member for Nottingham South.
I mentioned all of this to try and convey to the Minister the town has gone through something of a tough time in recent years. And as the local MP I am very keen to promote its regeneration. But I hope segues nicely to the situation at Wickford station. The issue arises because several years ago a company demolished half of Wickford station in order to extend the platform for the new fleet of 720 class trains. The nutrients were desired not designed to replace relatively old rolling stock which unfortunately suffered from quite a lot of lie ability -- reliability issues and I can see the Minister is nodding.
I am pleased to tell the House since the new class trains have been introduced reliability has markedly improved. So in that respect my constituents have been getting a better service. The long promised rebuild of the station is yet to occur and at present Wickford station basically consists of several platforms, an old footbridge without a lift and a number of very unattractive Portakabins which I hope the Minister will accept is hardly a station fit for the 21st- century. The whole issue of rebuilding the station has turned into something of a saga.
I would not try the Minister's patients this afternoon by attempting to recount every single twist and turn of the tale but suffice to say the rebuild is long overdue. I have been consistently lobbying the Department for Transport for several years to try to achieve the reconstruction of the station. Part of this effort I'd made representations to the then real Minister, Huw Merriman and I am pleased to say I managed to persuade him to ensure funding was provided by the Department to allow Greater Anglia to undertake the work.
I then told my constituents in all good faith we finally had the money and therefore I was confident the works would begin. In addition Greater Anglia is part owned by a very large Japanese Corporation headquartered in Tokyo which has a number of global investments in different sectors including transport. In order to try and progress the project back in March 2024 prior to the general election I was sitting on the House of Commons defence committee where we undertook a trip to Tokyo in order to prepare a report into the new Global Combat Air Programme.
Which is aimed to be the RAF's new Spitfire for the 21st-century. As we were in Tokyo anyway I took the opportunity to try and organise a meeting with the deputy general manager of Mitsui's ability and industrial deal. And as such oversees the transport -related investments in the UK. The embassy absolutely went the extra mile or perhaps I should say track, and managed to set up this meeting and I was able to spend over an hour in order to familiarising with the background and context of the issue.
I think it is fair to say as an investor in Greater Anglia he was very supportive. And undertook to see what he could do to help. I wish to place my thanks to both him and Mitsui on the record. I should also like to thank the British Ambassador, Mr Julian Longbottom and their staff are helping to facilitate our discussion. I joked with her subsequently when the new station eventually opens I would like to see a plaque saying, this station was rebuilt with the assistance of the British embassy in Tokyo.
I hope Greater Anglia are listening to this debate Minister, I have a funny feeling they are. And after all of this that is the least they could do. Back in Britain following the general election, the Greater Anglia initiated a competition for a contractor to rebuild the station. Unfortunately because of the program itself subject to multiple delays by the time the bids came back, they had slightly exceeded the originally allocated budget. Nevertheless I understand the Greater Anglia negotiations with the Department had managed to provide some extra resource, such the project can now go ahead.
For which I would like to go ahead. For which I would like to say thank you today. On 28 February 2025 Greater Anglia formally announced the contract to rebuild the station had been signed with a company and the rebuild would finally go ahead. Indeed the managing Director said at the time and I quote from their press release, " $$CAPITALISEWe are glad to confirm the contract for the station upgrade at Wickford is now signed. We look forward to confirming further details of the timing of the delivery of the scheme later in the spring, then to the implantation of the project to provide customers with better facilities at the station".
On that point as someone who campaigned very hard during the previous Parliament against what I described at the time as misguided proposals to remove the ticket office as the majority of stations around the country, I'm very pleased to see not only were these proposals abandoned but the new design of Wickford station will include a ticket office. Indeed the new design is as I understand it likely to be used as a model for the construction or reconstruction of the small to medium-sized stations across the country.
As part of the design it is an iconic clock tower also it says in the marketing material. On which people seem to have firm views. Either one way or another. For the record I quite like the look of it. But I appreciate some of my constituents have different architectural tastes should be civil to nevertheless I think the overall design is a good one and the sooner they start building the better. Having been in a lot of the discussions with Greater Anglia on this project for several years now I hope the Minister will forgive me if I also take this opportunity at their request to remind them of the departments proposals to upgrade Ely junction Ealing junction forgive me.
Which they believe is an urgent critical priority which has widespread as nurse and industry support across East Anglia. I hope the Minister will forgive my cheek in taking this occasion to remind Turning to the timings of the stationary bill project, given the history of all this I can understand why Greater Anglia are cautious about providing timings of the program because where they then to be exceeded perhaps because of bad weather during the construction phase for instance, would then be a further wave of criticism from my constituents.
Nevertheless I do think that it's a reasonable unreasonable to give my constituents at least some indication in terms of how long will this might now actually take. Having spoken very recently to Greater Anglia they are confident enough for me to say that they expect work to begin on the site this summer and they are also confident that the work will be completed by the end of 2026 at the latest, although they are hopeful they might be able to shave sometime of that particularly if the good Lord is kind with the weather which I very much hope that he may yet be.
I appreciate that there will be some inevitable disruption at the station itself or the works being undertaken, but nevertheless Greater Anglia assured me that they will do everything they can to run a train service whilst the work is underway. There is one additional issue I would like to raise with the Minister this afternoon regarding disabled access. A number of my constituents have contacted me to express their dismay that the proposed design does not include wheelchair accessible facilities, such that people would still need to negotiate the odd footbridge in order to reach the London bound platforms.
I note in passing that when the new station was constructed at London Southend airport several years ago it did indeed include full disabled access as part of that design. I understand this would normally be facilitated by an access for all grant which Greater Anglia -- applied for but to date at least they have unfortunately been unsuccessful. Perhaps the Minister would allow me to put in a plug this afternoon for any future resources which I hope might yet be looked on more favourably to some of this problem.
However while this would clearly be desirable especially for my disabled constituents, given all the previous delays to the project I think the absolute priority must be getting the rebuild underway and then hopefully if we can eventually achieve full disabled access that would be very much the icing on the cake. To summarise, I thank the Minister for being here this afternoon to listen to my impassioned plea on behalf of my constituents after years of delay to finally get the stationary belt. As I said earlier this has been a Norse saga with a whole number of twists and turns but now that Greater Anglia has finally signed the building contract with Walker construction, I do hope that work can now get underway this summer and then hopefully be completed by the end of 2026 at the latest, and ideally sooner than that.
Someone who campaigned very hard in the previous parliament to maintain ticket offices in our stations across the country, I'm very pleased across the country, I'm very pleased to note that the design of the new station will contain a ticket office as I believe it's an important element of customer service and I'm sure my constituents will welcome the fact the new station will have one as well. While the current design for the new station which will be used as a model for other new smaller medium-sized stations around the country does not include full disabled access, I do hope at some point it will be possible to provide this as well.
In the meantime I'm very pleased that the long awaited station will finally go ahead in order to serve my constituents and provide what they have long asked for which the station in Wickford which is fit for the 21st-century. I thank the Minister for his patients as I've outlined so much of the background to the story and I now very much to the story and I now very much
**** Possible New Speaker ****
look forward to his reply. I want to start by congratulating the right honourable member for the right honourable member for Rayleigh & Wickford for securing this debate and providing the opportunity to discuss the rebuilding of Wickford station. I thank all members for their contributions of course throughout today, this Friday. I recognise the right honourable members concern and frustration at the length of time it is taking for the stationary bill to progress, let me explain a little progress, let me explain a little bit of the background as I am sure he will be familiar.
The original station building needed to be demolished to facilitate the introduction of Greater Anglia's brand-new longer fleet of trains that otherwise the platform that is the Delyn platform at the station could not be extended to accommodate the new trains. Alternative options of extending the platform in the opposite direction would have been far more expensive as they would have required resignalling and there was not the space to implement that option. It's important to mention that without carrying out this extension the South Leinster branch would have been the only part of the Greater Anglia network not to benefit from the £1.4 billion investment in new trains which are
Have seen a number of banks closing on the High Street, in addition to several other retail in addition to several other retail outlets and the footfall of the High Street is not as high as the local traders would like. The police station has been closed several years ago with an understanding the local authority have plans to redevelop the site as a community hub. In addition we used to have two medium-sized supermarkets in the town, a relatively new one run by algae and more long-standing one run by Co-op.
Unfortunately the Co-op store closed several years ago whilst algae did demolish McNulty demolish their store and the net effect of this was that over a year the town had so -- no supermarket of its own other than the small Iceland on the High Street. This meant my constituents often had to travel some distance in order to conduct their weekly shop. On top of this there have been quite a number of flats built in the town the past few years.
Which has meant we have lost quite a lot of car parking space, particularly as a large part of the towns main car park located next to the old Co-op site has been cornered. This making the town a more difficult place to visit for those who have to come via car is opposed by rail. I am pleased to report algae rebuild to the store which is at the bottom of the shallow slope leading directly down from Wickford station itself. I had the honour of reopening the store back in November 2023.
In addition the developers who opened the Co-op site which is a five minute walk from the station have now submitted planning permission from the council to demolish it and build a brand-new store with a number of lowrise flats on top. We are very hopeful they will succeed in agreeing a lease with a major supermarket chain. The name of which I have been asked not to mention because the negotiations have not been concluded. Suffice to say it is an open secret across the entire town who it is.
I very much hope these negotiations will come rapidly to a close and the company concerned can make a formal announcement. Lastly they have been -- there have been a considerable number of roadworks in Wickford of the last few years. Some of which have unfortunately badly overrun including some not far from Wickford station itself. Five fast -- by far the worst transgressor and in this regard arcaded. Who principally maintained gas infrastructure who had further plans in Wickford and other parts of my constituency including Hockley.
Other residents are so fed up with endless roadworks some have nicknamed them the village Lockley instead. In my experience this company often start late and clock of early which means their work takes far longer than other wise necessary. They are one of the least productive companies I have ever seen. As I'm here in front of the Transport Minister I cannot tell him how appallingly they have behaved in regard to my constituents. I hope something we can follow up on separately, perhaps with his colleague the roads Minister, the member for Nottingham South.
I mentioned all of this to try and convey to the Minister the town has gone through something of a tough time in recent years. And as the local MP I am very keen to promote its regeneration. But I hope segues nicely to the situation at Wickford station. The issue arises because several years ago a company demolished half of Wickford station in order to extend the platform for the new fleet of 720 class trains. The nutrients were desired not designed to replace relatively old rolling stock which unfortunately suffered from quite a lot of lie ability -- reliability issues and I can see the Minister is nodding.
I am pleased to tell the House since the new class trains have been introduced reliability has markedly improved. So in that respect my constituents have been getting a better service. The long promised rebuild of the station is yet to occur and at present Wickford station basically consists of several platforms, an old footbridge without a lift and a number of very unattractive Portakabins which I hope the Minister will accept is hardly a station fit for the 21st- century. The whole issue of rebuilding the station has turned into something of a saga.
I would not try the Minister's patients this afternoon by attempting to recount every single twist and turn of the tale but suffice to say the rebuild is long overdue. I have been consistently lobbying the Department for Transport for several years to try to achieve the reconstruction of the station. Part of this effort I'd made representations to the then real Minister, Huw Merriman and I am pleased to say I managed to persuade him to ensure funding was provided by the Department to allow Greater Anglia to undertake the work.
I then told my constituents in all good faith we finally had the money and therefore I was confident the works would begin. In addition Greater Anglia is part owned by a very large Japanese Corporation headquartered in Tokyo which has a number of global investments in different sectors including transport. In order to try and progress the project back in March 2024 prior to the general election I was sitting on the House of Commons defence committee where we undertook a trip to Tokyo in order to prepare a report into the new Global Combat Air Programme.
Which is aimed to be the RAF's new Spitfire for the 21st-century. As we were in Tokyo anyway I took the opportunity to try and organise a meeting with the deputy general manager of Mitsui's ability and industrial deal. And as such oversees the transport -related investments in the UK. The embassy absolutely went the extra mile or perhaps I should say track, and managed to set up this meeting and I was able to spend over an hour in order to familiarising with the background and context of the issue.
I think it is fair to say as an investor in Greater Anglia he was very supportive. And undertook to see what he could do to help. I wish to place my thanks to both him and Mitsui on the record. I should also like to thank the British Ambassador, Mr Julian Longbottom and their staff are helping to facilitate our discussion. I joked with her subsequently when the new station eventually opens I would like to see a plaque saying, this station was rebuilt with the assistance of the British embassy in Tokyo.
I hope Greater Anglia are listening to this debate Minister, I have a funny feeling they are. And after all of this that is the least they could do. Back in Britain following the general election, the Greater Anglia initiated a competition for a contractor to rebuild the station. Unfortunately because of the program itself subject to multiple delays by the time the bids came back, they had slightly exceeded the originally allocated budget. Nevertheless I understand the Greater Anglia negotiations with the Department had managed to provide some extra resource, such the project can now go ahead.
For which I would like to go ahead. For which I would like to say thank you today. On 28 February 2025 Greater Anglia formally announced the contract to rebuild the station had been signed with a company and the rebuild would finally go ahead. Indeed the managing Director said at the time and I quote from their press release, " $$CAPITALISEWe are glad to confirm the contract for the station upgrade at Wickford is now signed. We look forward to confirming further details of the timing of the delivery of the scheme later in the spring, then to the implantation of the project to provide customers with better facilities at the station".
On that point as someone who campaigned very hard during the previous Parliament against what I described at the time as misguided proposals to remove the ticket office as the majority of stations around the country, I'm very pleased to see not only were these proposals abandoned but the new design of Wickford station will include a ticket office. Indeed the new design is as I understand it likely to be used as a model for the construction or reconstruction of the small to medium-sized stations across the country.
As part of the design it is an iconic clock tower also it says in the marketing material. On which people seem to have firm views. Either one way or another. For the record I quite like the look of it. But I appreciate some of my constituents have different architectural tastes should be civil to nevertheless I think the overall design is a good one and the sooner they start building the better. Having been in a lot of the discussions with Greater Anglia on this project for several years now I hope the Minister will forgive me if I also take this opportunity at their request to remind them of the departments proposals to upgrade Ely junction Ealing junction forgive me.
Which they believe is an urgent critical priority which has widespread as nurse and industry support across East Anglia. I hope the Minister will forgive my cheek in taking this occasion to remind Turning to the timings of the stationary bill project, given the history of all this I can understand why Greater Anglia are cautious about providing timings of the program because where they then to be exceeded perhaps because of bad weather during the construction phase for instance, would then be a further wave of criticism from my constituents.
Nevertheless I do think that it's a reasonable unreasonable to give my constituents at least some indication in terms of how long will this might now actually take. Having spoken very recently to Greater Anglia they are confident enough for me to say that they expect work to begin on the site this summer and they are also confident that the work will be completed by the end of 2026 at the latest, although they are hopeful they might be able to shave sometime of that particularly if the good Lord is kind with the weather which I very much hope that he may yet be.
I appreciate that there will be some inevitable disruption at the station itself or the works being undertaken, but nevertheless Greater Anglia assured me that they will do everything they can to run a train service whilst the work is underway. There is one additional issue I would like to raise with the Minister this afternoon regarding disabled access. A number of my constituents have contacted me to express their dismay that the proposed design does not include wheelchair accessible facilities, such that people would still need to negotiate the odd footbridge in order to reach the London bound platforms.
I note in passing that when the new station was constructed at London Southend airport several years ago it did indeed include full disabled access as part of that design. I understand this would normally be facilitated by an access for all grant which Greater Anglia -- applied for but to date at least they have unfortunately been unsuccessful. Perhaps the Minister would allow me to put in a plug this afternoon for any future resources which I hope might yet be looked on more favourably to some of this problem.
However while this would clearly be desirable especially for my disabled constituents, given all the previous delays to the project I think the absolute priority must be getting the rebuild underway and then hopefully if we can eventually achieve full disabled access that would be very much the icing on the cake. To summarise, I thank the Minister for being here this afternoon to listen to my impassioned plea on behalf of my constituents after years of delay to finally get the stationary belt. As I said earlier this has been a Norse saga with a whole number of twists and turns but now that Greater Anglia has finally signed the building contract with Walker construction, I do hope that work can now get underway this summer and then hopefully be completed by the end of 2026 at the latest, and ideally sooner than that.
Someone who campaigned very hard in the previous parliament to maintain ticket offices in our stations across the country, I'm very pleased across the country, I'm very pleased to note that the design of the new station will contain a ticket office as I believe it's an important element of customer service and I'm sure my constituents will welcome the fact the new station will have one as well. While the current design for the new station which will be used as a model for other new smaller medium-sized stations around the country does not include full disabled access, I do hope at some point it will be possible to provide this as well.
In the meantime I'm very pleased that the long awaited station will finally go ahead in order to serve my constituents and provide what they have long asked for which the station in Wickford which is fit for the 21st-century. I thank the Minister for his patients as I've outlined so much of the background to the story and I now very much to the story and I now very much
**** Possible New Speaker ****
look forward to his reply. I want to start by congratulating the right honourable member for the right honourable member for Rayleigh & Wickford for securing this debate and providing the opportunity to discuss the rebuilding of Wickford station. I thank all members for their contributions of course throughout today, this Friday. I recognise the right honourable members concern and frustration at the length of time it is taking for the stationary bill to progress, let me explain a little progress, let me explain a little bit of the background as I am sure he will be familiar.
The original station building needed to be demolished to facilitate the introduction of Greater Anglia's brand-new longer fleet of trains that otherwise the platform that is the Delyn platform at the station could not be extended to accommodate the new trains. Alternative options of extending the platform in the opposite direction would have been far more expensive as they would have required resignalling and there was not the space to implement that option. It's important to mention that without carrying out this extension the South Leinster branch would have been the only part of the Greater Anglia network not to benefit from the £1.4 billion investment in new trains which are
14:51
Simon Lightwood MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Department for Transport) (Wakefield and Rothwell, Labour )
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Simon Lightwood MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Department for Transport) (Wakefield and Rothwell, Labour )
now operating across the entire Greater Anglia network will stop the changes at Wickford station without a essential and the scheme was a essential and the scheme was developed to extend the platform and provide new station facilities in place of the old building. With place of the old building. With those approvals secure the old station building was demolished and the station became relied on temporary facilities. The delivery temporary facilities. The delivery of the Wickford station scheme was of the Wickford station scheme was then delayed by COVID-19 and the wider funding challenges facing the train industry and its aftermath.
Understandably in a cost restrained environment where the industry's revenue was fastly reduced for a couple of years, the introduction of the new trains was a key priority as it affected millions of passenger journeys and would underpin the recovery of passenger numbers from the pandemic. It's worth explaining a little more about the new train program, the new longer trains require a significant invention -- investment program at stations and depots across the network. There has been significant investment in been significant investment in depots such as Ilford and Norwich, several stations on the West Anglia route needed platforms to be extended and funding needed to be secured these vital works to take place, in addition to the plat form extension needed at Wickford station.
That fleet transformation program has allowed Greater Anglia to introduce a new class DCCXX trains that have addressed key customer priorities with additional seating capacity, air-conditioning, plug-in USB points and improved accessibility features, furthermore they are more reliable and resilient improving operational performance on the network and therefore improving the service provided to passengers. I'm pleased to note that Greater Anglia is one of our highest performing operators in quarter two of 24/25. During which 85.6% of trains were classed as on-time, leaving within one minute of schedule.
When you compare data from before the introduction of the class DCCXXs with more recent data the improvement is clear. In 2019 through 2020 on-time performance was 69.9% and 3.2% of services were 69.9% and 3.2% of services were cancelled. In 2023 /24 on-time performance was 86.2% and cancellations have halved to 1.6%, in fact Greater Anglia has consistently been one of the best performing UK train operators since April 2023 and the new trains are been a key factor in that positive track record full stop returning to the station project itself a combination of funding challenges facing the post-pandemic rail in the need to ensure new trains are all in service as soon as possible contributed to delays in the scheme.
However despite these challenges Greater Anglia continued to develop the design and for the project. As a result of its work Greater Anglia has channel approving for a new building and awarded a new contract to Walker construction towards the end of last month. The contract was has been signed, detailed timescales for implementation have now been for implementation have now been finalised and will be confirmed once agreed. The Wickford stationary developer and project represents a landmark UK rail infrastructure as the first of its kind this project uses a new and innovative network rail hub station modular design concept.
Which integrate sustainability, adaptability and community engagement into a cohesive modern station blueprint. Hub design has been developed by Nate work rail over several years and that at network Rail, and this is the first use the modular design practice by combining innovative design points Canopies and energy-efficient systems as well as a highly cost- effective design and build methodology the project establishes a new benchmark for railway stations nationwide. The new station will have features that improve the passenger experience with a large canopy providing shelter for 70 seated and 345 standing passengers.
It's spacious waiting room and accessible toilet integrated ticket office. Automatic ticket gates will also be a feature enhancing security at the station protecting industry revenue and managing passenger flows. The Department will continue flows. The Department will continue to seek further opportunities to improve rail accessibility including taking advantage of the opportunities created by our rail reform program. This includes the establishment of a powerful new passenger watch dog which will champion passenger interests with a view to improving service performance and to ensure DBR and other operators meet passenger expectations.
The government is determined to clamp down on street works referred to by the honourable, the right honourable gentleman. That cause unnecessary disruption in local areas. That's why we've announced increases to fixed penalty notices and extended over charges of up to £10,000 per day so that they also apply at the weekend. The government also wants to see the rollout of rental schemes in England which is a tool to help highway authorities reduce the impact of works taking place on the busiest streets at the busiest times by charging utilities up to £2.5 thousand per day for work on these roads.
We recently announced that at least half of the services from line lane rental should be spent on maintenance. Following the publication of the English devolution white paper the consultation is underway about devolving powers to improve new rental schemes from the Secretary of State to males. The issue of accessibility nightmares. -- Mayers. To allow future installation and the left's any future funding of course will be subject to the ongoing Spending Review, the government is committed to improving accessibility of our railway and recognises the considerable social and economic benefits that this brings to communities in conclusion there is positive news on the Wickford station scheme with the design and build contract now awarded mine please the station project can proceed and works will commence in
**** Possible New Speaker ****
2025. I'm grateful as he is obviously coming to a conclusion I would like coming to a conclusion I would like to thank you again for being here this afternoon, and for the support given to rebuild the station. The given to rebuild the station. The constituency MP I am very grateful. Could you give me comfort and one further point? Although the works will be extensive, it is indeed the
**** Possible New Speaker ****
will be extensive, it is indeed the intention is it not to try maintain train services through Wickford as far as possible while the work takes place? I would say to the honourable
**** Possible New Speaker ****
I would say to the honourable gentleman is this government is determined to put passengers at the very heart of our railway so every effort I'm sure will be undertaken to make sure that is indeed the case. I'm pleased this project can proceed and works will commence in 2025 as well as delivering a modern, welcome experience for customers will set a new standard for the future buildings, the first of the new and innovative network rail hub stations. I'm looking forward and looking for colleagues at Greater Anglia to progress this important product -- project at pace to ensure the permanent structures put in place to serve those customers and constituents who use the station.
**** Possible New Speaker ****
With that, thank you. The question is that this House do now adjourn. As many are of that opinion say, "Aye", and of the opinion say, "Aye", and of the contrary, "No". The "Ayes" have it.
Understandably in a cost restrained environment where the industry's revenue was fastly reduced for a couple of years, the introduction of the new trains was a key priority as it affected millions of passenger journeys and would underpin the recovery of passenger numbers from the pandemic. It's worth explaining a little more about the new train program, the new longer trains require a significant invention -- investment program at stations and depots across the network. There has been significant investment in been significant investment in depots such as Ilford and Norwich, several stations on the West Anglia route needed platforms to be extended and funding needed to be secured these vital works to take place, in addition to the plat form extension needed at Wickford station.
That fleet transformation program has allowed Greater Anglia to introduce a new class DCCXX trains that have addressed key customer priorities with additional seating capacity, air-conditioning, plug-in USB points and improved accessibility features, furthermore they are more reliable and resilient improving operational performance on the network and therefore improving the service provided to passengers. I'm pleased to note that Greater Anglia is one of our highest performing operators in quarter two of 24/25. During which 85.6% of trains were classed as on-time, leaving within one minute of schedule.
When you compare data from before the introduction of the class DCCXXs with more recent data the improvement is clear. In 2019 through 2020 on-time performance was 69.9% and 3.2% of services were 69.9% and 3.2% of services were cancelled. In 2023 /24 on-time performance was 86.2% and cancellations have halved to 1.6%, in fact Greater Anglia has consistently been one of the best performing UK train operators since April 2023 and the new trains are been a key factor in that positive track record full stop returning to the station project itself a combination of funding challenges facing the post-pandemic rail in the need to ensure new trains are all in service as soon as possible contributed to delays in the scheme.
However despite these challenges Greater Anglia continued to develop the design and for the project. As a result of its work Greater Anglia has channel approving for a new building and awarded a new contract to Walker construction towards the end of last month. The contract was has been signed, detailed timescales for implementation have now been for implementation have now been finalised and will be confirmed once agreed. The Wickford stationary developer and project represents a landmark UK rail infrastructure as the first of its kind this project uses a new and innovative network rail hub station modular design concept.
Which integrate sustainability, adaptability and community engagement into a cohesive modern station blueprint. Hub design has been developed by Nate work rail over several years and that at network Rail, and this is the first use the modular design practice by combining innovative design points Canopies and energy-efficient systems as well as a highly cost- effective design and build methodology the project establishes a new benchmark for railway stations nationwide. The new station will have features that improve the passenger experience with a large canopy providing shelter for 70 seated and 345 standing passengers.
It's spacious waiting room and accessible toilet integrated ticket office. Automatic ticket gates will also be a feature enhancing security at the station protecting industry revenue and managing passenger flows. The Department will continue flows. The Department will continue to seek further opportunities to improve rail accessibility including taking advantage of the opportunities created by our rail reform program. This includes the establishment of a powerful new passenger watch dog which will champion passenger interests with a view to improving service performance and to ensure DBR and other operators meet passenger expectations.
The government is determined to clamp down on street works referred to by the honourable, the right honourable gentleman. That cause unnecessary disruption in local areas. That's why we've announced increases to fixed penalty notices and extended over charges of up to £10,000 per day so that they also apply at the weekend. The government also wants to see the rollout of rental schemes in England which is a tool to help highway authorities reduce the impact of works taking place on the busiest streets at the busiest times by charging utilities up to £2.5 thousand per day for work on these roads.
We recently announced that at least half of the services from line lane rental should be spent on maintenance. Following the publication of the English devolution white paper the consultation is underway about devolving powers to improve new rental schemes from the Secretary of State to males. The issue of accessibility nightmares. -- Mayers. To allow future installation and the left's any future funding of course will be subject to the ongoing Spending Review, the government is committed to improving accessibility of our railway and recognises the considerable social and economic benefits that this brings to communities in conclusion there is positive news on the Wickford station scheme with the design and build contract now awarded mine please the station project can proceed and works will commence in
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2025. I'm grateful as he is obviously coming to a conclusion I would like coming to a conclusion I would like to thank you again for being here this afternoon, and for the support given to rebuild the station. The given to rebuild the station. The constituency MP I am very grateful. Could you give me comfort and one further point? Although the works will be extensive, it is indeed the
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will be extensive, it is indeed the intention is it not to try maintain train services through Wickford as far as possible while the work takes place? I would say to the honourable
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I would say to the honourable gentleman is this government is determined to put passengers at the very heart of our railway so every effort I'm sure will be undertaken to make sure that is indeed the case. I'm pleased this project can proceed and works will commence in 2025 as well as delivering a modern, welcome experience for customers will set a new standard for the future buildings, the first of the new and innovative network rail hub stations. I'm looking forward and looking for colleagues at Greater Anglia to progress this important product -- project at pace to ensure the permanent structures put in place to serve those customers and constituents who use the station.
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With that, thank you. The question is that this House do now adjourn. As many are of that opinion say, "Aye", and of the opinion say, "Aye", and of the contrary, "No". The "Ayes" have it.
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