Commons Chamber

Friday 4th September 2026

(began 8 hours, 20 minutes ago)

Share Debate
Watch Live
Skip to latest contribution
This debate has concluded
09:34
09:46
None Portrait Division: Standing Order 163:Private Sitting.
-

Order! Order! Order!

**** Possible New Speaker ****

The ayes to the right. One. The

**** Possible New Speaker ****

north to the left 79. The ayes to the right were one.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

The ayes to the right were one. The nurse to the left 79. So the nurse have it. The nurse have it nurse have it. The nurse have it unlocked. The clerk will now proceed to read the orders of the

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Swayne. Madam Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that the infants, Parents and Carers Bill be read a second time. Madam Deputy Speaker, this is the Madam Deputy Speaker, this is the first private member's bill that I have moved in 30 years. And I have have moved in 30 years. And I have been somewhat discombobulated by the extraordinary amount of effort the extraordinary amount of effort that has gone to getting into just six clauses before the House today.

So I'm deeply indebted to the government whips office, who have been have been extraordinarily helpful. I don't know what is happening to this Parliament. It's it's vastly more helpful than I was ever expected to be when I was a government whip. Anyway, equally, I'm equally indebted to the Ministers and their private offices and indeed to their parliamentary draughtsman. And of course, included in those Ministers is the hon. Lady, the. The Member for Washington and Gateshead East, who has pursued this particular agenda in opposition and in government.

Frankly, since God was a boy. Equally, I give my thanks to the public Bill office who have been exceptionally helpful and to our former Leader of the House, Andrea Leadsom, and her 1001 Days Foundation. And finally, to the heavy lifting that has been done by my parliamentary assistant and by our former colleague, Will Quince and his team. And of course, as you know, Madam Deputy Speaker, the standing orders are clear. We do not refer to people in the gallery.

I got I take it you've got the hint. This bill responds to a widely held view that services for infants and prospective parents and parents of young children are somewhat vulnerable when they rely very largely on non-statutory guidance and programme funding. The purpose of this bill is to shine the legislative light spotlight on those services and to ensure that they are systematically understood and that they are known and made available to Parliament and scrutinised by Parliament.

It is a truism that if we want a better future, we need to start by provision of services to babies. Today. It is vital that those services are available in those critical. That critical period of 1001 days, from pregnancy through
09:50
09:51
Desmond Swayne Portrait Rt Hon Sir Desmond Swayne MP (New Forest West, Conservative)
-
-
They will have language development, and their future learning will be assured. That is vital. It's vital that we make that impact in those early weeks and months and years. When 1,000,000 million neural networks are being formed every second and the baby's brain grows second and the baby's brain grows to 80% of the weight of a adult's brain by two years old. If those services aren't available, if problems arise and not are not addressed, then there will be problems with speech, problems with relationship, and problems with development later.

So it is vital that those are there. Was that a request? Indeed?

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I'm extremely grateful to my. He, as a former schoolmaster, will be familiar with the work of Piaget, familiar with the work of Piaget, who makes exactly that point. That early development, prior attainment early development, prior attainment is often called, is a determinant of subsequent progress both at school and beyond. It. But in terms of the delivery of the service he describes, in rural communities describes, in rural communities such as mine, it is vital that that's done in a peripatetic way, ideally through what were once called district nurses, familiar figures in the community who could engage with local people and build trust.

I wonder if we ought to add to this bill in the form of amendment, a call to bring back

**** Possible New Speaker ****

district nurses. I will address exactly that

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I will address exactly that point shortly. If a child isn't point shortly. If a child isn't developing properly and isn't sleeping, isn't feeding, isn't sleeping, isn't feeding, isn't communicating, then parents need to know that they have somewhere to know that they have somewhere to turn. If that difficulty is spotted by, let's say, indeed, even a district nurse or a midwife, or a health professional, or one of the excellent workers in our Family Hubs, then help is on the way.

If that help doesn't arrive and doesn't arrive in a timely manner, problems will present later when they will be much more difficult to address and more expensive to address. So I have received an enormous amount of advice from clinicians at the top of their game, from frontline workers with enormous experience laying out all the vital services that ought to be provided for by a bill such as this. And in offering me substantial help in putting such a bill together, I've no doubt, and it would be perfectly proper for hon.

Members to share that sort of advice with the Minister today, and that is the proper place for it. This Bill is quite deliberately written at a higher level. It does not specify what the services should be. It empowers Ministers to regulate and and and make provision for those services. That is the overwhelming purpose of the bill. But of course, there is a a vast amount of evidence out there that suggests that all these services are vitally important, be it perinatal mental health services for parents, be it relationship training for parents and their child, be it for the very peripatetic services that my hon.

Friend referred to, be it systematic provision of those services, all that is vital. And if that sounds familiar, it ought to be because that is what is being delivered to a large extent by our excellent Best Start Family Hubs and Healthy Babies programme. So this bill isn't actually providing something new in the way of services. What it is doing is making those services accountable and more easily scrutinised by Parliament, and therefore less prone to being deprioritised.

And we might recall what happened to much of the Surestart programme, and let that be a salutary lesson, particularly on this side of the particularly on this side of the

**** Possible New Speaker ****

House. Yeah, so the Bill clause. Oh, sorry, sorry. Thank you, gentlemen, for giving way. He mentioned the other side of way. He mentioned the other side of the house. But does he mean both the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats who are involved in cutting.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

cutting. The. The issue was that I accept that it was the wrong priority. But that it was the wrong priority. But what the government did was remove the requirement of ring fencing of the requirement of ring fencing of the funding, for sure. Start. And then local authorities, because they were not required to spend that money in that way, made their choices accordingly. I accept it was the wrong priority, and I hope

**** Possible New Speaker ****

the whole House is the better for knowing that. Of course I give way. I thank the hon. Gentleman for

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way and having seen sure Start in some places in London actually created before Surestart actually created before Surestart was formally created and having my children go through it, I saw the direct benefits and one of the things about Surestart was it was things about Surestart was it was around hubs. There was a desire to go out and visit people at home. Many of us visit people in homes. I Many of us visit people in homes.

I wonder if he's got anything to say. Obviously, as you say, he says Ministers will interpret this, but there is something about a home visit by professionals that reveals a great deal about the challenges that children face, whether it's before going to nursery or it's by a health visitor or by a midwife. And I wondered if, in his research in developing this bill, he's got anything to say about the

**** Possible New Speaker ****

importance of that. Well, I remember with respect to my own children, the importance of the visit by the midwife even after the visit by the midwife even after birth. And I think it's essentially the point that my hon. Friend the Member for South Holland and the Deepings was making with respect to the importance of district nurses. the importance of district nurses. I entirely agree with the hon. Lady. So the bill clause one of the bill lays on the Secretary of State a duty to make regulations defining these services and the functions that the Secretary of State will carry out.

That's the primary duty, is to work out what it is that the

**** Possible New Speaker ****

services actually contained as. Of course. I thank the right hon. Gentleman

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for giving way and kind of going a little bit back to the idea of ring fencing and making sure that we protect this time, and that's why this bill is so important. But where councils before didn't ring fence, they kind of lumped together youth services within this this period of time. So does he agree with me that having a separate pot and a separate protection for this and a separate protection for this time is so valuable, even if we have to look again later at youth services, people get a bit older.



**** Possible New Speaker ****

Yes. I think that's essentially what we're doing here today, is we're putting these services on a statutory footing, which of course, the government's subsequent governments can change statutes, governments can change statutes, but it makes it an explicit decision of this House and this decision of this House and this Parliament, rather than a fiat by a government decision. So section two lays on the Secretary of State a duty to make an assessment of the need for these services, and included in that is a duty to, as far as reasonably possible, take into account the opinions of parents of prospective parents and carers in making that decision.

So the first duty is to define what services and functions we're talking about. Second, to make an assessment of need, the period in which it has to make that assessment is to be no longer than three years before another period of assessment begins. Clause three of the bill lays on the duty. The. The Secretary of State a duty to now make provision for the services that. She has made an assessment of the need for. And that does take account of the fact on.

Clearly, on the face of the Bill, which I think, again addresses one of the points that my hon. Friend made that there may be different levels of need appropriate in different areas. Section sorry. Clause four. Clause four of the bill lays a duty on the Secretary of State to report to Parliament annually on the provision of those services and the outcomes that arise from them. Clause five is largely interpretation of terms used within the Bill, be it infant prospective parent, prospective carer and clause six determines the short title of the bill and provisions for its coming into force.

So effectively, what this bill has done is lay a series of duties to make regulations on the Secretary of State, first to specify services and functions, second, to assess the needs for them. Third, to provide for those services, and fourth, to report accordingly to Parliament. I commend the bill to the House.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Yeah. The question is that the bill be now read a second time. I call

**** Possible New Speaker ****

now read a second time. I call Helen Hayes. Speaker. Can I congratulate the hon.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Can I congratulate the hon. Member for New Forest West on coming top in the private member's coming top in the private member's bill ballot and on his choice of bill. I also want to pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Washington and Gateshead South, for her work to champion the needs of very young children and their families over many, many years, and I want to thank the thousand and one days, the thousand and one Critical Days Foundation for their work on this bill.

Their research demonstrates so clearly what a critical stage the first thousand and one days from conception to the age of two are for child development and the unique opportunity they offer to set every baby on a solid foundation for the rest of their life. There is a sign outside the wonderful Sheringham Nursery and Children's Centre in east London, which captures the importance of the first thousand and one days perfectly. It reads building brains here. During the first thousand and one days, babies brains develop at the most astonishing rate, forming over a million neural connections every minute and reaching 80% of their adult size by the age of two.

The right support during this vital phase of development can bear fruit for a lifetime. In terms of good emotional regulation, learning
10:02
Helen Hayes Portrait Helen Hayes MP (Dulwich and West Norwood, Labour)
-
-
capacity, language and communication skills, and physical health. Conversely, without the right inputs in early childhood, the impacts of disadvantage can become embedded for a lifetime. Good support in the first thousand Good support in the first thousand and one days involves a wide range of people. It means family, of of people. It means family, of course, but also midwives, health visitors, GPS, parenting support, breastfeeding and weaning support, and perinatal mental health care. It can also involve certain specialists and sadly, sometimes safeguarding and the involvement of social services.

This network of people involved in providing support to babies, parents and carers during the first two years gives meaning to the phrase it takes a village to raise a child.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I'm grateful to my friend for taking the intervention. The Kingdom review of a paediatric audiology services demonstrated terrible shortcomings in this service throughout the country. Poor hearing leads to poor language development and poor brain development, and is a catastrophic start to a child's life. So would she agree with me that we must do all we can to also support audiology services? She mentioned a long list of health professionals that I'd like to give a shout out for audiology.



**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank my hon. Friend very much for that intervention. And he's right. And I would include I mentioned the need for early access mentioned the need for early access to send support, and I would include audiology within that category of professionals. Those category of professionals. Those services are vital, as are speech and language services. We know all too often not available at the too often not available at the earliest possible opportunity. And I'll come on in a moment to speak about the importance of that very, about the importance of that very, very early intervention.

But that network is the village, and the village should be available in every community for every family, right across the country, every single week of the year. One of the proudest achievements of the Labour governments of 1997 to 2010 was the creation of Surestart, a children's centre in every community, bringing together a range of universal services for pregnant women, new parents and carers and children under a single roof in local neighbourhoods. I pay tribute once again to my predecessor, Dame Tessa Jowell, for her pioneering work to establish surestart right across the country.

The results of Surestart were transformative, with long term evaluation showing that integrated early childhood interventions significantly improved long term health, especially for disadvantaged children, reduced hospital admissions and improved GCSE results. The analysis also showed that investment in these services represented exceptional value for money and a positive financial return. With every pound spent on shore start delivering more than twice as much back in societal benefits. My own daughters were born in 2005 and 2008, and we experienced first hand the benefits of that investment in antenatal and early childhood support.

It provided a gold standard in community midwifery services, excellent health visitors, good breastfeeding support, a drop in speech and language therapy clinic. When one of my daughters needed that and a wealth of other services. All of this was delivered a very short distance from home in our local community. So we also got to meet other parents and babies at the same stage and build

**** Possible New Speaker ****

relationships with them. My hon. Friend, I've had similar experiences of the system. I think for me, one of the things that it for me, one of the things that it was that it didn't stigmatise going to seek advice, whether it be from about child psychology, whether it be about speech and language. Doesn't she think that that's really key when the Ministers start really key when the Ministers start working on how to flesh out this bill and actually put it into practice, that it must be universal?

**** Possible New Speaker ****

practice, that it must be universal? I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. I'll come on to make exactly that point about the importance of these services being available on a universal basis, for exactly the reasons that she alludes to. It was a tragedy that Surestart centres were one of the earliest and most extensive casualties of the austerity of the Conservative and Liberal Democrat coalition government of 2010. The funding was not ring fenced. The services were, in many cases not statutory.

The Integrated Service design model was not mandated. In many ways, the strongest argument for the bill we are debating today is the experience of just how easy it was for Surestart to be dismantled, ultimately resulting in the closure of 1300 centres and the loss of that precious and vital integrated network of support for babies and their families, which had been delivering so much. These closures were compounded by the Covid-19 pandemic, when access to face to face services in early childhood was very limited, and we've seen the impact of this, particularly in the increase in children with speech, language and

**** Possible New Speaker ****

communication difficulties coming through the system in recent years. The hon. Lady is making a

**** Possible New Speaker ****

The hon. Lady is making a powerful speech about Surestart, and in particular about the capacity to deliver face to what capacity to deliver face to what she describes as face to face services. It is critically important that they are delivered important that they are delivered in precisely that way in person, because of the trust that that because of the trust that that creates. And as I remember as a as a new parent in 2000, having never had a child before, my wife and I were dependent on exactly those kind of very trusting personal relationships.

I fear that more and more of that kind of service is being delivered now online, and people are being driven online to attain it. We must reverse that trend. It was exaggerated, of course, in Covid, but it's never really recovered since.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank the hon. Member for his intervention, and I agree with him about the importance of face to about the importance of face to face services. And I mentioned the excellent community midwifery services that I was able to benefit services that I was able to benefit from as a as a new mother. And we've got ourselves into this terrible state with maternity care terrible state with maternity care right across the country, with tragedies and a real challenge in turning those services around.

One turning those services around. One of the things that I found so, so, so important, and I appreciate it so much about that community midwifery service, was that I got to know the team of five midwives who worked in that service during the course of my pregnancies, and it was one of those midwives who then took me through labour and the antenatal period as well. And that was so important for the building of trust, which we know in midwifery and maternity services in particular, has been so badly damaged by the service failures that we've seen in lots of areas of the country.

I'd also add my second daughter has two middle names, and one of them is Agnes, and Agnes is the midwife who delivered in the end, both of my babies, through that excellent community midwifery service. I can't speak highly enough about that, but those services have largely gone, so midwifery services are not delivered in that way anymore. I'd also say in relation to the delivery of online services, I do think we must recognise that parents and carers and all of us look for advice online all the time, and it's important that when we go online to look for advice, there are accredited, reliable, trustworthy sources of good information.

So I wouldn't dismiss the role of online services, but it cannot ever be a substitute for delivery of services in person. As our Labour government seeks to restore. Some of the provision that was lost as Surestart was dismantled, and respond to the challenges that families are currently facing by expanding Best Start Family Hubs. There are some considerations that I believe are vitally important and the first, as my hon. Friend alluded to, is the principle of universality. None of us comes to parenthood for the first time, knowing everything about what is best for our baby.

For many new parents, irrespective of material resources, the experience is overwhelming and it is an incredibly vulnerable time of life. With 10 to 15% of new mothers experiencing postpartum depression. We should therefore ensure that all new parents can access, support and advice in the earliest years, and this support should be easily accessible for everyone in their local communities. If support is delivered in this way, there is no stigma associated with accessing it, and there is the added benefit of helping to build community and cohesion by providing the opportunity for parents from different backgrounds, living in the same area to connect with each

**** Possible New Speaker ****

other. I thank my hon. Friend for giving way, and she makes some really valid points around really valid points around Surestart. I myself was able to use that through two of mine, but my third child, they disappeared by third child, they disappeared by then. When we talk about involving all parents, does she agree with me that we really need to make sure that fathers are involved in this? And when we look at the parental leave work that's going on, we have to make sure that those self-employed fathers are not left out because there is no access to any paternity leave for them.

So being able to attend these places that we are going to be bringing in will be really, really difficult

**** Possible New Speaker ****

and have a stigma. I agree with everything that she said, and I think that the role of said, and I think that the role of fathers is so important, and the opportunity for fathers to connect with each other and share their own with each other and share their own experiences. And I'll come on to talk about some work on reading, which involves fathers, which is which involves fathers, which is very, very powerful indeed. But this comes to the point about this comes to the point about presenting parenting support as something that absolutely everybody needs, not something that you only need if you have a problem, because that's where the stigma creeps in.

We have to make these services as normal as possible, as well as accessible as possible for people to live. And she makes an important point about paternity leave as well.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Thank you. My hon. Friend, for giving way on that point. And I think back to my own experiences as a new parent, as you described, a new parent, as you described, that that kind of terrifying thing of how do I keep this bundle of lovely joy alive and get some sleep lovely joy alive and get some sleep at the same time? I think the point around universality is so important because as these services have lost funding, they've become more and funding, they've become more and more targeted.

And one of the good things about a universal service is that you meet other parents from different backgrounds, and you allow your children to grow up in a community rather than sort of in silos. So I agree with me that any way forward has to be that sort of one stop shop model that isn't highly targeted and highly specialised. But it is, as you said, a drop in sort of service. So you stay in place, those sort of things where you can just pop in and get some support and help and meet other parents who are going through

**** Possible New Speaker ****

the same thing as you are. I agree with everything that she said, and I think that the important thing for for Best Start important thing for for Best Start Family Hubs, as it was for sure start Centres, is that they should be anchor institutions, anchor be anchor institutions, anchor places in local communities, as well as places where individual services are delivered, because then the whole is more than the sum of its parts. My, my second principle is, is the importance of principle is, is the importance of send expertise being available in these early years settings.

The earlier a special educational need or disability is identified, the sooner appropriate support can be put in place. Early identification also enables parents and carers to understand their child's needs and to provide the support they need as they grow. And not only is early intervention best for the child and for the family, it is also much more cost effective for the public purse and I therefore strongly welcome the government's commitment that there will be send specialists in every Best Start Family Hub.

The third principle is the. The opportunity to participate in a range of activities together. My Committee has recently published a report on reading for pleasure, which delivers such significant benefits for children's development, educational attainment, empathy and mental health and wellbeing. Reading for pleasure should start as early as possible in a child's life, with parents and carers reading to their babies. My committee recommended a national reading guarantee that every child will have opportunities to read for pleasure embedded throughout their life, from birth to the age of 18, and this should start in Best Start Family Hubs.

I pay tribute to the brilliant work of Booktrust and former Waterstones children's laureate Frank Cottrell Boyce in this area, who have modelled inclusive approaches to reading in the early years which engage and build the confidence of parents and carers who themselves had negative experiences of reading at school and lack the confidence to read with their own children by making reading together a fun and joyous experience for everyone. And we heard some wonderful testimony at our committee about groups that do this work with fathers, with grandparents, with parents, with carers.

Building the confidence back to do something that delivers

**** Possible New Speaker ****

such benefits, both for children and for parents. And on the topic, yeah. I thank you for giving way. Can

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank you for giving way. Can I commend the committee for that excellent report. Can I say there's an irony that I have recommended the reading for Pleasure Report to people. It's 130 page Select Committee report on reading for pleasure. And I am recommending pleasure. And I am recommending that to to everyone that I can. One of the things that the report said was that reading for pleasure can was that reading for pleasure can have all sorts of different things. Manga books could be included in it.

My son likes that. It could be comic books. Reading for pleasure doesn't have to be. Perhaps, as we think, a novel and simply exposing children to the concept of reading and the choice of reading is important. I certainly picked that up in the report and it resonated with me. And if members have not read it, can I commend the report very, very much. Worth reading.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank my hon. Friend very much, and he's absolutely right. In the report we take, we say that we must report we take, we say that we must take a very broad definition of reading, including audio books, including reading. It's about the stories. It's about the connection and any way that we can that gets children and young people engaged children and young people engaged in that is really important. I just finish my response, if that's OK, and then I'll then I'll then I'll give way.

The. When we're talking about reading with babies, we are. Of course, Frank Cottrell Boyce makes this point so well, often talking about books that don't have any words in them at all. It's about the pictures and the story

**** Possible New Speaker ****

away. For an opportune moment for this House to pay tribute to Dolly Parton. As somebody that has done Parton. As somebody that has done an enormous amount of work across the world, did do, and to encourage children of all ages to read.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

children of all ages to read. I thank the hon. Member for that intervention. I was just exactly coming on to that point on on this coming on to that point on on this topic, we must absolutely pay tribute to the legend that is the late Dolly Parton, and we mourn her late Dolly Parton, and we mourn her passing, whose extraordinary commitment through her Imagination Library means that children in my constituency and many other parts of the country and across the world can receive a book a month free of charge, and we owe her a huge debt of gratitude for her generosity and leadership in this area.

My committee is currently undertaking an inquiry on the early years, which will report shortly, and I look forward to setting out our recommendations for the ways in which support in the first 1001 days can be further strengthened, so that we really can give every child the best possible start in life. In addition, we are working with the Work and Pensions Select Committee on a joint inquiry scrutinising the government's child poverty strategy because unless we tackle the scourge of child poverty, children will continue to experience the blight of disadvantage which prevents them from fulfilling their potential.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I welcome this Bill, and I am pleased that the government is supporting it by placing early childhood services on a statutory footing. There will be a better basis for ensuring that these vital services are delivered consistently in every community across the country, and it will be much harder for a future government to dismantle them, as previous governments have been able to do. I welcome the requirement in the bill for an annual report to Parliament as the accountability mechanism for the new statutory duties.

My Committee would welcome the opportunity to play our part in scrutinising the government's progress in this area. Madam Deputy Speaker, there really is no no more important task than giving every child the best possible start in life. It is important because every child is precious and deserving of love and security. And it is. It is important because the benefits to our society and our economy are huge. This bill will play an important role in helping to ensure that we deliver for every single child, and I am proud to support it today.
10:19
Shivani Raja Portrait Shivani Raja MP (Leicester East, Conservative)
-
-
Gower Shivani Raja. I would like to begin by paying tribute to the right. My right hon. Friend, the Member for New Forest West, and thank him for his continued work and commitment to this bill. As colleagues may know, this bill carries a particular significance for me as I recently celebrated the first birthday of my son. In fact, today we celebrate him being 395 days old. So I am pleased that this side of the House is taking action to highlight the undeniable importance of those first 1001 critical days in a child's life.

And I do hope that members across this House will join me in my support for this bill. In Leicester East. We are fortunate to benefit from excellent quality of service throughout the Leicestershire, Leicester and Rutland NHS trust, and I want to put on record my thanks to the wonderful nurses, doctors, midwives who supported me through my pregnancy and birth and have supported my son on a number of occasions since. I want to be clear, Madam Deputy Speaker, that this bill is not about critiquing the quality of healthcare we receive through our NHS, or placing further demands on the hard working healthcare professionals that serve on the front line every day.

But it is focussed on establishing an enduring legal foundation for the best start in life and the Healthy Babies programme. As my right hon. Friend the member of New Forest East mentioned, the first 1001 days of a child's life is a time of rapid and vital development. During this period, babies strengthen their physical, neurological and emotional capacity, with the brain reaching about 80% of its adult size by the age of two and forming more than 1 million new neural connections every single second.

To support this profound chapter of change in a newborn's life, babies must be safe and secure. That does not only improve the first 1001 days of their life, but has a lasting impact into adolescence and adulthood. Statistics show that children whose mothers were stressed during pregnancy were twice as likely to experience mental health difficulties during those teenage years. By investing in measures promoted by this bill, we change our approach from crisis management to prevention. We will target early support for families to ensure that they are prepared to manage those early days of parenthood, an intervention that will save billions of pounds of annual spending on public services later down the line.

In an ever changing world, with swift advancements in healthcare and technology, we must continue to check in with the parents and carers that are taking on the responsibility for these new lives. Not only that, but we must continue to be available to prospective parents and carers, those who anticipate the arrival of new life with great excitement, but also with great trepidation. Listening is a fundamental part of what we do here, and we have to make sure it stays at the forefront of all the decision making in this House.

I have been privileged on a number of occasions to spend time with the incredible Sally and her team at Leicester Mamas. They do some amazing work within my constituency, supporting mothers through the early stages of parenthood. Yes.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I'm extremely grateful to my friend and I who I've come to know friend and I who I've come to know and become a friend of over over recent times. She will understand that although it's very easy for us to imagine the vulnerability of unborn and born children, the vulnerability of new parents is often underestimated. They can feel, often underestimated. They can feel, as she describes, nervous, uncertain. They can be frightened of making mistakes. When you have your second child, it's a lot easier.

I'm sure many members across the House will acknowledge, but in those first days, weeks and months, it's difficult. And what this bill does, I think, is to create a cushion for those vulnerable parents of a kind that that I've described.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank my right hon. Friend for that, for that wisdom. And I that, for that wisdom. And I couldn't agree more. As a first time parent and a young mum, I can confirm that I myself have felt the confirm that I myself have felt the pressures that many mums around the country face. And again, this is why I'm really grateful to why I'm really grateful to Leicester Mummers for providing guidance in my postpartum journey. Whether it was breastfeeding Whether it was breastfeeding support, encouragement to my family and many other families across Leicester, they have truly grown to be an integral part of our community.

Madam Deputy Speaker, The Royal College of Psychiatrists reported in 2024 that up to 85,000 mothers across England had experienced post-natal depression. That is staggering and it is all happening well within the first 1001 days of a baby's life. The last National Maternity Review in 2024 described the harsh and devastating reality that 3 in 10 women reported symptoms of depression, anxiety or post-traumatic stress just six months after giving birth. We have to do more, Madam Deputy Speaker And that begins with being better listeners.

This bill means that government can continue to monitor the situation for parents and carers, prospective parents and carers and newborns, but ultimately, we have to make sure that our listening is followed up by action. And the the second component of this bill would improve the level of accountability in this area. The third element of this bill is focussed on information and support, specifically in ensuring that we introduce a stronger legal foundation beneath the resources and services that families rely on during pregnancy.

And those first 1001 days. Madam Deputy Speaker, there sadly remains inequalities throughout our system. It is the reality for many communities within my constituency that pregnancy and childbirth are far from straightforward. Evidence shows that women living in the most deprived areas die at nearly twice the rate of those living in the least deprived areas during childbirth. Having a firm legal basis for the care that is provided to new mothers across demographic groups will ensure that some of the anxieties taken out of pregnancy for many mothers and prospective mothers in Leicester East, this would be life changing.

I will conclude with this as a mother, with a son who is growing up at an unbelievable pace, I know the reality of both the challenges and joys of the first 1001 days. However, no country in the world has fully recognised in law the huge opportunity that strengthening the support to families in this early period carries. It would be transformative. And this is why I support this bill. Madam Deputy Speaker, because I know from personal experience as a new mum, as many mums in this House will also know that parents and carers need more support and I believe the government can offer that.

We have the evidence to back up the need for this bill, and we are now presented with the perfect opportunity to lead the world in our approach to championing young families and their children. I

**** Possible New Speaker ****

would urge members across this House to join me in supporting this bill. Thank you.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Thank you. I call Mary Alice. Thank you, Deputy Speaker. I'm

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Thank you, Deputy Speaker. I'm delighted to rise in support of Infants, Parents and Carers Bill. I wholeheartedly support the right wholeheartedly support the right hon. Member for New Forest West Private member's bill, which pushes for vital provision to support infants and families and would infants and families and would finally put into legislation the requirement for government to report to Parliament annually on how this country supports children and families from pregnancy to age two. I am very proud to be the chair of the all party parliamentary Group for babies pregnancy to age two and through that role over the past two years, I have seen that the evidence on this subject is there 100 times over.

We know that there are 3.5 million children under the age of four today, all of whom will grow into UK citizens who we need to thrive. We know that some of the most significant brain development happens before the age of two. We know that Surestart centres were directly linked to a reduction in special educational needs. We know that the Department of Health's own research says that early intervention could save £45 billion a year. As I always say, though, to many of the people in this sector and to my own constituents, even though the evidence is there a million times over, sometimes political will is even harder.

That's why I think we're in a really lucky position right now, where we have 41% of MPs who are women. We have. Feminism has developed to a point where I'm really glad that this is finally coming to this house. We also have the maternity task force, which I'm also proud to be a member of the Parliamentary Expert Advisory Panel for. And I think we have a moment now where these things are coming together. And finally, there is a political will, there is momentum, and women particularly, are finding their voices alongside all the incredible dads and parents across this and carers across this household too, who are really standing up.

But we have to keep shouting about it. And I'm delighted that this puts into legislation, finally the first steps to do that. But what's important next is how we build on that. I think one of those powerful arguments for this bill for me is that we would never know, and no government would now question the funding for free entitlement to school at age five. No government would would change that. And so I think this is about putting that same assumptions onto care from pregnancy and birth and making sure that no government in future without a lot of difficulty can change those basic principles that we all now think agree to.

I want to pay a few tributes to the history that has got us here, because there are people who've been banging the drum for this for decades. Dame Tessa Jowell, who's already been mentioned along with Lord David Blunkett and Naomi Eisenstadt, who was the civil servant who led on, all of whom put so much of the the frameworks of this in place. Lord Frank field, who then went on to develop some incredible partnerships during the Cameron government, was was an incredible force in this space.

And Dame Andrea Leadsom, who we know has worked really hard to bring this bill and also made sure that Family Hubs continued under previous governments. And most recently, this government, a particularly driven by our hon. Member for Washington and Gateshead South, bringing back Best Start Family Hubs to really start to rebuild that legacy. I would also like to pay tribute to the wonderful Nicholas PC, MBA, who passed away this summer after a
10:30
Maya Ellis Portrait Maya Ellis MP (Ribble Valley, Labour)
-
-
lifetime of work with young people, including leading the Foundation Years Information and Research charity, which I am honoured to charity, which I am honoured to chair. Nick was relentless in his positive support for early years and for stakeholders like myself, and for stakeholders like myself, with a conviction that was that nothing was more important than babies. I believe he knew that this bill was coming through Parliament bill was coming through Parliament and. But there was so much more he was excited to do, and we will miss him.

This bill is deliberately him. This bill is deliberately simple, and I know that organisations have lobbied me, and I'm sure others, about the fact that they wish it did more. I've been very grateful to Dame Andrea Leadsom and the wonderful Will Quince, and educating me about how important it is to keep a bill simple. So I think it's important that the public know that this is about creating a basis so that we can get something on the statute books and make sure something gets through, but is absolutely only a start.

And we will, I'm sure all in this House be committed to building on that. So this bill will serve as a foundation. And if it becomes law, there are a few things I think government could do to ensure a glowing first report. Too often, mothers, babies and parents are treated as an afterthought in policy making. This bill recognises a simple truth if we want healthier families, greater equality and better outcomes for children, we have to pay more attention to the earliest stages of life.

Maternity care is one of those areas that currently gets shamefully low focus. Around 84% of women will become mothers, and maternity care is often the first time a healthy adult really interacts with a publicly funded institution. Her current experience and the experience of her family around her, of what her taxes have been paying for, is currently woeful. The state of maternity care should concern every one of us. The Care Quality Commission found that 65% of maternity units required improvement or were inadequate for safety.

Two thirds of maternity services being rated unsafe should be treated as a national emergency. The consequences are not felt equally, either. Black women are nearly three times more likely to die during pregnancy or in the year after birth than white women. Babies born in the most deprived parts of our country are more than twice as likely to die around the time of birth as those born in the least deprived areas. We have had more than 700 recommendations on maternity care over the past decade.

We do not need another list of recommendations. We need investment in staff, workforce stability, continuity of care and time for professionals to build trusting relationships with women and families. How women experience pregnancy and birth is not a nice to have. It has profound consequences for mental health, family wellbeing and long term outcomes. Women deserve to feel safe, listened to and empowered through pregnancy and birth. And as they take their first steps in feeding and caring for their baby. But this bill is also about what happens after birth.

And we know that the first 1001 days of a child's life are among the most important in determining future outcomes, yet they receive remarkably little attention. Currently, only around 55% of infants secure. Develop, secure, develop secure attachments. Despite overwhelming evidence that early relationships shape future health, wellbeing and life chances. Recent research has shown that expanding parent infant relationship support in the most deprived communities could save government £1.2 billion annually. The bill also speaks to a challenge that sits at the heart of gender equality.

Becoming a parent remains one of the biggest drivers of inequality between men and women. Mothers still carry a disproportionate share of caring responsibilities and the result is the motherhood penalty. Lower earnings reduce career progression and less financial security for many women. Evidence shows that when fathers take meaningful leave in a child's life, mothers are more likely to return to work, more likely to progress in their careers, and more likely to share caring responsibilities on a lasting basis. Many of us here are campaigning for the government's parental leave review, concluding in December to fund six weeks of paternity leave paid at 90% of pay.

As a mother to two young children, I have seen first hand among my peers. Alongside all the overwhelming evidence, the life changing difference it makes to a child's early years and to equality when parents are enabled to take equal responsibility from the very start. So for me, this is a bill. This bill is a foundation not just of how we support babies, but of how we support families to support their babies, because it is families who are at the coalface. Families who get up in the night, who don't get to clock off, and who also get the criticism when things go less well with their children.

So finally, I'd like to make a point in support of targeted universalism, as some of my colleagues have made to within early years, support. Sometimes it feels like it strays outside my political home in some ways, but not in others. The labour movement was founded in working class families and ensuring opportunity for all, but the movement has been upheld and sustained by other groups, particularly feminists and

**** Possible New Speaker ****

feminists of all backgrounds. While we have to ensure financial Disadvantage does not become a barrier, and I will always defend barrier, and I will always defend that as the first goal of our Labour government. We cannot ignore the strain that women of all backgrounds are under with caring responsibilities, especially at the earliest stages of a child's life. I wanted to be a politician because I wanted to be a politician because I have felt for the last 20 years how relentlessly hard it is to do everything you're expected to do as a, even from a more supportive background.

We need early years services for all women, for all families, because currently, even wealthier women hold hugely disproportionate amount of the responsibility for both physical caring but also the mental load of working out what is the right thing to do for your child. We need to support these women because it is against our labour values to still be enabling such inequality of care. But we also need to support these women because often it is these women, if they have the right support, the right balance, equality with their partner, confidence in the balance they establish between work and family.

It is these women who get to stand up in this place and fight for everyone else. Most women I know don't think they could be in this place because of the things they have to juggle. This bill doesn't just enable Healthy Babies, it enables the systems for women to thrive. So to conclude, I have been incredibly lucky to have a largely positive journey with my two gorgeous children. But it should not be luck that made that happen. And it should not be luck that enabled me to stand here in this place because of that equality.

This bill recognises something every parent knows. Raising children is not a private issue to be solved behind closed doors. It is a public good. When we support parents, we support children's development, strengthen families, improve health outcomes and reduce inequalities. Unlike most economic theory will have you believe human capital doesn't just appear like magic. At age 18, endless unseen effort goes into creating those productive, mentally healthy members of society. The Infant Parents and Carers Bill asks us to take those realities seriously.

It asks us to invest earlier, think longer term, and put parents and carers at the centre of policy rather than taking them for granted. For those reasons, I am frankly quite emotional that this bill might actually become legislation. I am delighted to support it.
10:37
Munira Wilson Portrait Munira Wilson MP (Twickenham, Liberal Democrat)
-
-
Thank you. Deputy Speaker. Can I begin by paying tribute to the right hon. Member for New Forest West and for Member for New Forest West and for him, breaking with his decades long tradition of issuing private member's bills? And so engaging with this process, I congratulate him on coming top of the ballot and was very amused by his response. Actually, when he did win that particular lottery that many of us, I think in this House would love to win, wouldn't we? And can I congratulate him on his choice of Bill and the work that he's done with the Thousand and one Days Foundation, with Andrea Leadsom, with with Will Quince and others to enshrine in law the support that babies, parents and carers should receive, and making sure that there is a proper accountability in place to ensure that that support is forthcoming.

As as many have talked about their parenting experiences. And, you know, I as one, I was just thinking today, actually, I remember my my first being born and then today she's just started back at year eight of school aged 12. And I can't even begin to imagine like how quickly she's grown up and remember those sleepless nights. But I just think about those tiny babies, vulnerable, defenceless, voiceless. Except when they're screaming for food at 3 a.m. yet so often look overlooked in terms of policy making, in terms of service planning, and something that the NSPCC described in their briefing as the baby blind spot.

And we you know, we've got so, so many other services and provision for older children enshrined in law, but but not for these youngest, most vulnerable citizens of our country. Yet, as others have already said, we know that a person's quality of life, their outcomes, are so profoundly shaped by those early months and years. And we people have talked about the rapid brain development. The first 1001 days lay the foundations for a child's development, including attachment, emotional regulation, language, and lifelong physical and mental health.

As we've heard, they're entirely reliant on the adults around them to protect and nurture them. And that's why, again, when I was reading the NSPCC briefing, I was I was really shocked to read that 61% of child deaths happen amongst babies under the age of one, under the age of one, 61% of child deaths. It is actually profoundly shocking. And that actually underscores the importance of the support that we provide to parents and carers, and making sure that people are, as the the hon.

Lady for Hackney, I can't remember which Hackney constituency, the chair of the Treasury Select Committee has talked about people going into people's homes to to see what's going on. So we've talked about the first thousand and one days being crucial. That also starts from conception through pregnancy and birth into a child's early years, to make sure that the support is there before those difficulties become crises. Yet I think help and support at the moment for parents and carers remains really quite patchy across the country.

The Healthy Babies programme is extremely welcome, bringing together infant feeding, perinatal mental health and parent infant relationship support alongside wider health and family services. But it only covers 75 local authorities in England at the moment, and I think it's quite right and sensible that the government has targeted the areas of greatest disadvantage first for rolling out that programme, but I would say it we need that support quickly, right across the country because I much an affluent constituency.

First of all, we have real privation within that. And often when you're a pocket of deprivation within a much more affluent area, they tend to be overlooked even more. But also, let's face it, whatever your socio demographic situation, new parents do need support. And yes, you can buy some of that support. But actually having a trusted place that your signposted to in those early days and weeks is absolutely critical. We talked about people going into new parents and babies homes to provide support.

The number of health visitors has fallen by 40% over the past decades, and in some areas, practitioners are responsible for over a thousand children, far exceeding the recommended caseload of 250 children per practitioner, and the coming back to some of the research by the NSPCC, they found that more than half of parents with young children don't feel confident about what support was available to them in the local area. So there is this issue about both accessibility, which we've talked about, which is variable across the country, but there's also an issue about awareness.

Although 66% of parents had heard of Family Hubs, only 16% had actually used one. Madam Deputy Speaker, alongside the support that government, national and local government can provide, I also want to pay tribute to the many voluntary sector organisations that often step into the gaps in service provision and support that are left around the country, and I've seen this in my own constituencies. Charities like Home-start, the that support new parents and children, but also very specifically in my constituency, the charity Extra Mile, that was set up by the Hampton Methodist Church in Hampton in my constituency, that takes in donations of all sorts of baby equipment and clothes and all sorts, and they get many, many referrals in from, you know, GPS, midwives, health visitors and social services.

And they are constantly giving, giving so, so much out to families that are in need, not just in my constituency, but actually well beyond. And I also want to give a shout out to reach Family Hub in Feltham, which is not in my constituency, but just down the road, an area of deprivation where actually, thanks to the the inspirational work of a headteacher at the Reach Academy, they've they've worked with health services and with the local authority to provide a family hub with charitable support, very close to the school.

So that actually they're engaging with parents to be right from conception, right through to when their children then end up going to reach to school up to 16 and then into reach college up to the age of 18. So because they've identified that actually for those most disadvantaged families, that early support is absolutely crucial. Madam Deputy Speaker, it goes without saying babies cannot speak for themselves. They can't advocate for their needs or demand better services. I think that's one of the reasons they're so overlooked.

But similarly, it shouldn't fall to exhausted parents and carers to have to fight tooth and nail for the essential services they need to protect and nurture their children. It's our duty as elected representatives and policy makers to ensure that parents and carers have access to the help and support they need when they need it, so that every child has the best start in life. But I would say, and I think the hon. Lady member for Portsmouth said this in her intervention.

This does need to be coupled with a serious look and review, which I know the government is undertaking, and I hope they'll come forward with their proposal soon with better maternity, paternity and shared parental leave arrangements. And I include kinship carers leave in that. Many in this House will know that I, along with others across party, have been working on this issue for a long time. If we want families to have genuine choice and flexibility in how they look after their children, and given all of the evidence around the importance of actually having a parent, it doesn't have to be the mother we know it often is.

But, you know, actually, in my children's case, it was often my husband who was with them in those early years while I was out at work. Whoever it is, having that parent more present at home around, it helps with that attachment and emotional development, and I will do. And so I think I think government policy over the years has been very, very heavily skewed on trying to get parents back into the workplace as soon as possible. And for those families who want that, excellent.

But we need to provide genuine choice. And and therefore, I think providing more support for parents who want to spend more time at home should be a priority for government.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank you. And on that note, having been doing the work that having been doing the work that I've been taking part in, it's evident that 90% of parental leave is taken by the top 50% of earners is taken by the top 50% of earners in this country, meaning that it really is a class system where we're not allowing those lower paid we're not allowing those lower paid workers to be able to take time with their babies. And that's not because they don't want to be a

**** Possible New Speaker ****

good dad. It's because they are literally priced out of being able to be a good dad. Yeah. I couldn't agree with the hon. Lady more. Statutory paternity pay. Statutory maternity pay. Statutory shared parental leave pay is less than half the minimum wage when you work it out. It's not affordable for parents who want to stay at home, whether that's mum or dad. And and I think we as a society, as a society really need to look at this seriously.

And if we believe in investing in our children, we have got to start there. And, you know, there have been a number of attacks on the coalition today, which, you know, I'm happy to take, you know, on the chin. But actually it was the Liberal Democrats in government who really fought hard to introduce shared parental leave. But it is still pains me to this day that the take up is so low because it isn't affordable. And actually, one of the things we're seeing is with big employers, the ones who want to be really competitive out there in the marketplace are providing really good and enhanced benefits in terms of shared parental leave to attract in those those people who particularly dads who want to spend more time with their family and they realise it's, it's good for them because they get more women coming back to the workplace sooner so that dads can then maybe spend time at home, but also they get more engaged and more productive employees.

So I think I really, really hope when the government comes forward with, with its review of parental leave arrangements, that that we will see a better offer on the table for parents in all sorts of families, those with birth children, but also those who are kinship carers to. So, Madam Deputy Speaker, I just want to finish by saying that, you know, that this this bill is excellent. As we've heard, it is quite high level, but I think the fact that it does put, finally, a legal duty on the Secretary of State reporting annually on the level of provision of infant support services and their contribution to securing positive outcomes, actually puts the well-being of babies and their parents firmly on the agenda and should keep them on the agenda and protect them going forward.

Whoever is in government, although I see some people who ought to be in government, are off at their conference, the measure of a nation is how it treats its weakest citizens. And so if we truly, truly care about the future of our country, we must start by caring and investing in babies and children. And so I'm delighted to support this bill. Thank you. Sharon Hodgson. Thank you very.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Much, Madam Deputy Speaker, and it is truly an honour to be standing here today and speaking in standing here today and speaking in this important debate, and I'm very happy to follow the excellent speech by the member from Twickenham. This is such an important bill, as we've all heard, important bill, as we've all heard, and I want to start by thanking the hon. Member for New Forest West for his work to bring it forward, and I his work to bring it forward, and I have thoroughly enjoyed working with him on that.

Can I also place on record my thanks to the 1001 Critical Days Foundation, whom I've had the privilege of working with over many years now for their unwavering support throughout this bill and beyond, and for their tireless commitment to ensure ongoing that every single baby has the best possible start in life. And this thanks extends in particular to the former member for South Northamptonshire, Dame Andrea Leadsom, who has been the biggest champion. We have to say of this issue, whether it be from within this place, as she did during her time as an MP, and I was here working with her on that or from the outside in as she now is.

And can I also thank the wonderful former Health Minister Wilkins, who is now the chief executive of 1001 Critical Days Foundation, for his dedication and work to get this bill to where it is today. We all know how much work went into this. As we heard from the hon. Gentleman for New Forest West in his opening remarks, for these very important six clauses in this bill today. So before I go into why this bill is so important, it really is useful to contextualise how we got here, some of which we've heard already in some of the other excellent opening speeches.

I was extremely proud when the last Labour
10:51
Sharon Hodgson Portrait Mrs Sharon Hodgson MP (Washington and Gateshead South, Labour)
-
-
government introduced a start in order to reduce the impact of child poverty and address social poverty and address social exclusion by improving the life chances of children under five, especially those who grew up in disadvantaged areas. And at this point, I also want to pay enormous point, I also want to pay enormous tribute, as others have, to the late, great Baroness Tessa Jowell. And I know she would be so proud of And I know she would be so proud of the hon.

Gentleman who's not actually listening to me at this point. She would be. He's still not listening. He would be. She would be so proud of the hon. Gentleman for choosing this issue, for his private member's bill, and indeed, of all of us for being here today to support it. And in her words to me, when I became shadow Children and Families Minister back in 2010, she explained the genesis of Sure Start and how important it was and how we got here.

And she said, Sharon, you need to be able to smell the babies they need. The places need to be full of babies. And this house, metaphorically, is full of babies today in all of our remarks, and I'm sure she'd be very proud of us all also. But I also want to pay a huge tribute to Lord Blunkett, as I've said, Baroness Margaret Hodge, who also gave me the benefit of all of her wisdom and experience, and of course, our current Health Secretary, the Member for Pontefract, Castleford and Knottingley, as well as the former member for Nottingham North, the amazing and brilliant Graham Allen, who I had the pleasure to work with on early intervention.

His excellent reports along with Iain Duncan Smith. I still have copies of them and still refer to them now. His work goes on in the work that I'll continue to do from the back benches, and I thank him for that. Also, Naomi Eisenstadt, who's been mentioned so many who have played major roles in driving this policy forward after the 1997

**** Possible New Speaker ****

election. So while the initial yes, I will I'm Abtisam Mohamed. Friend referred.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

To the former member for Nottingham North, Graham Allen, and what he did was not just have the idea, but actually implemented it through the the strategic development of Nottingham by taking the chair of that in 2005 and turning it into something that started pre-pregnancy to tackle started pre-pregnancy to tackle those teenage mum, the high number of teenage pregnancies. So he lived it and has set a real blueprint for what government can do. And I look at the Minister when they take this bill forward, which we hope will pass today.



**** Possible New Speaker ****

Yeah. It was a real blueprint for the work he did in with regard to work he did in with regard to teenage pregnancy, also, which the teenage pregnancy strategy, the ten teenage pregnancy strategy, the ten years did fulfil its ambition in reducing those numbers. Following reducing those numbers. Following the great work of Graham Allen. And I remember taking part in a debate in Westminster Hall to acknowledge in Westminster Hall to acknowledge the ten years of that strategy in the success of it.

But I would fear if we looked at those numbers, that if, you know, if whenever anything stops, as we're talking about now, there is backsliding. And so it just shows the job is never done in this in this regard. And that's why it's so important that we get this bill through and on the statute book. So while the initial rollout of Surestart targeted disadvantaged communities exclusively, this approach soon shifted, as we know, to the universal provision of children's centres. As we've heard in the excellent speech by my hon.

Friend the Member for Dulwich and West Norwood and chair of the Select Committee. At its peak, almost 3500 centres were operating across the country. However, in 2010, we all know, came the change in government and Tory austerity, and we all know what happened thereafter. As has already been discussed in this debate today. Within months she was stopped. Funding was slashed with cuts of up to two thirds and hundreds of centres closed so quickly and the ring fence was removed.

And I was shadow Children and families Minister at the time and are now Prime Minister with Shadow Education Secretary. And together we fought this battle against these cuts day in, day out, and I was keeping a tally of closures. And when it got to over a thousand closures, the coalition government stopped publishing the numbers, which made it so much harder for us to keep track of the closures. Hon. Friend shouted. Shame it was. Those were dark days and that is why I was so glad to hear the hon.

Gentleman for New Forest West acknowledge how wrong it was that the coalition government allowed that to happen. I'm really grateful for that acknowledgement. And as we know, the former Prime Minister, the then member for Witney's pre-election promise to protect West Dorset never held true. Quite the opposite. These savage cuts were truly a tragedy for children everywhere, and I agree with the then member for Sheffield Hallam and the Deputy Prime Minister in the coalition government who said, and I quote, she was taught, was one of the best things the last Labour government had done, end quote.

Shame he wasn't able to protect it from cuts either, even as Deputy Prime Minister. And I'm sure he tried. I will acknowledge

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I'm sure the Lib Dems did try. Thank you. I thank the hon. Member for

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank the hon. Member for referring back to to the Labour Government's initiation of sure starts. And actually, in a real stark contrast, our own Prime Minister, who was a shadow education, actually kept sure stars education, actually kept sure stars in Manchester while he was a mayor. So even before coming to this place as Prime Minister, he has continued

**** Possible New Speaker ****

as Prime Minister, he has continued to see the value in sure starts in our early years education. Yeah. Darren.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

That is a really good point and gives us great hope for how now, as Prime Minister, he will help rebuild and he'll protect what we are discussing today going forward.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

are discussing today going forward. And this is precisely did. So I'll give way. Yes. Thank you for giving way. And I

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Thank you for giving way. And I know that she's passionate and committed on this subject. We've worked together on many issues relating to babies and children in relating to babies and children in this place. She she quoted the former deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg, who, of course, was deputy Prime Minister when the cuts to Surestart were made. And look, on behalf of the Liberal Democrats, can I say our former colleagues, because none of us were in this place at the time, did fight the Tories every single day, and there were some unpalatable choices being made.

But I'm sure she will acknowledge that the Liberal Democrats in that government introduced universal infant free school meals, which I know she strongly supports, pupil premium for the most disadvantaged children. I was a school governor in a, in a in a school with very disadvantaged children. And it transformed the interventions we can do. And we protected school budgets. So will

**** Possible New Speaker ****

she. Will she acknowledge at least that. Sharon Hodgson and I did in my

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Sharon Hodgson and I did in my remarks just before the interventions, I said, I'm sure she tried, but we're not here today to tried, but we're not here today to rehearse all of that, although we are touching on it in in a small are touching on it in in a small way, but that this is all why this bill is so, so important and that bill is so, so important and that it is passed today to provide these vital services with the statutory protection that they require, so that their progress cannot ever be reversed by future government through austerity or cuts or neglect or indifference.

Madam Deputy Speaker, the decisions we make as parliamentarians shape the support available to babies, parents and carers during the thousand and one critical days from pregnancy to age two, and this is one of the most important periods in human development. This window may be relatively short, but its impact is not small. In fact, it is responsible for the fastest development of a baby's brain when compared to other stages over the course of our whole life. I'm not very good at clicking my fingers, but I'm attempting to click my fingers because I'll try this hand.

Oh, that's a bit better because a million connections a second. George Hoskins from We Trust used to say to me, click his fingers. It's a million connections a second. That's what's going on in a baby's brain. And those first thousand and one critical days, and I know from my work with George in the Wave Trust, when our shadow children and families Minister, that the period from conception to age two is absolutely the age of opportunity, by age two, 80% of a baby's brain development has happened.

This lays the foundations for attachment, learning, health, wellbeing, stress responses and more. It is therefore essential that the most effective support is provided during this vital time for babies to thrive, their parents and carers need to be supported. After all, they are directly responsible for the development of their babies during this most critical period of their lives. Their relationship, stress levels, responsive care and more will unequivocally influence the development and growth of their babies. They are therefore the foundation of our society.

There is evidence which shows that parents perceptions of their foetuses are associated with the quality of the relationships built after birth. This highlights the key relationship between maternal foetal attachment and later outcomes. Getting this right matters because when we don't, children suffer. Research shows that 10 to 25% of children experience disorganised attachment with their main caregiver, putting them at greater risk of social, emotional, and educational outcomes. This is why we need an assessment to understand what exactly parents and carers, current and prospective need from us as legislators to help them thrive and take advantage of this time so that they can be and provide their babies with the best possible start in life.

But to do this, parents need the support and emotional capacity to do so, carrying the huge responsibility for the health and well-being of another human being so tiny and so vulnerable is an extremely difficult journey to navigate. However, this weight doesn't come with any training or preparation. Parents are expected to know, just by instinct how to fulfil this role. And this is where we have gone wrong. If we want a healthy and happy society, we need our children to be thriving and therefore our parents and carers to be supported from the very start.

This is why I have long advocated for age appropriate child development education, including attachment theory and how to be a good parent to be incorporated into the school curriculum. And we, the hon. Member and the shadow, the shadow anymore, and the Children and Families Minister was here earlier, so I hope he he does listen into this point that I'm making now, because there needs to be lessons in how to form healthy attachments with babies, and the importance of speaking to your baby even whilst pregnant, and giving them the love and care they need when they are born.

Consistently, constantly. This is not only an investment in their development, it is indeed vital to ensure a well attached, healthy and happy children who will thrive into adulthood. It really is that important. This is not at all about encouraging young people to become young parents before they are ready. This is about education. In the same way, we accept that age appropriate sex education is needed so that people are prepared for it if and when that time comes. Madam Deputy Speaker, I want to be clear that this support is just as necessary during pregnancy is as it is when the child has arrived, because, as we know, no two pregnancies look the same.

Many will know that I've spoken in this place on the floor of the house before, about my own heartbreaking experience with baby loss, and I know that I'm not alone in this. This is yet another reason why this bill is so important. Having important support and intervention, especially in instances of grief and trauma, will be a lifeline for so many. And because so many of us who experience baby loss then go on to try and sometimes successfully have another baby.

So being supported through that trauma, ready for when the next baby comes along is so important for the attachment and support for that baby. So this bill will be key in ensuring that support isn't just reserved for crisis, but is consistent, proactive and accountable. The current non-statutory government guidance, which sets out delivery expectations for Best Start Family Hubs and Healthy Babies, does not go far enough. We need the legislative protection so that history can never repeat itself. It would ensure that support is actually accountable to Parliament, with an entity with an annual mandatory report highlighting the services that have been provided and the outcomes that they have achieved.

If the provision of support is there but not accountable to anyone, the quality of that support will be variable, can be variable, and as no one is accountable and keeping track of it, it is therefore essential that the needs of infants, parents and carers and prospective parents and carers are actively assessed. And that is precisely what this Bill will do. Madam Deputy Speaker, as a former Public Health and Prevention Minister, I know first hand that government interventions around health oftentimes focus on responding after rather than preventing and are reactive rather than proactive.

And I know that this is something that the department is very focussed on changing. Also, if we instead focus on building conditions which allow parents, carers and babies to thrive, we allow children to thrive from the beginning rather than waiting to intervene when they struggle later down the line. Babies should not be an afterthought. There is clearly both a moral but also an economic case for this, and the cost of doing nothing will always outweigh the cost of preventative action.

So I would therefore encourage anyone listening, listening to this debate to back our babies and support this bill, because, Madam Deputy Speaker, babies should be apolitical. This should never be about party politics or point scoring. This is about ensuring that investment in our babies is protected and on a statutory footing, so that it is not something that any future government can decide to strip away, but rather a grounding principle of our society. Because babies do not have a political voice, nor do their needs change.

Depending on which colour the government may be, they need consistent support and care, as do their parents, as they are reliant upon us to act for them. Madam Deputy Speaker, I hope I've shown in my remarks today that the evidence is clear and robust, as we've heard also from the hon. Member who opened the debate and others who've spoken and who will speak after me, supporting the healthy development of babies in their first 1001 days, fundamental to lifelong physical, mental health and happiness.

Surely the success of any government must include a measure of how one how well the children in our society fare. Since we know this key period is the ultimate determinant to determiner for that. Implementing this bill is not just an opportunity, but it is a responsibility. That's why we said in our manifesto, which I'm so proud of, that we would help raise the healthiest generation of children ever. This bill is an important step in that journey to achieve that aspiration, and why I was so proud when I was the Minister, to secure government support for the hon.

Gentleman's private member's bill, and it was a pleasure to work with him on that. I do not believe that any member in this place would disagree with the fundamental principle that investing in our babies and supporting our parents, our investments worth making. This, therefore, should be a uniting issue across this House, and I hope that it is treated with the absolute and universal support it needs and deserves. As this bill progresses through later stages in both houses. I look forward to serving on the committee with the hon.

Gentleman, and I look forward to seeing this bill become the

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Swain Babies Act very soon. Thank you. Alex Brewer thank you, Madam

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Alex Brewer thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. The first. Thousand and one days of a baby's life are the single greatest baby's life are the single greatest opportunity we have to reduce inequality, improve health and educational outcomes, and thereby educational outcomes, and thereby improve the life chances of our future generations. The thousand and one Critical Days report came and one Critical Days report came out in 2013 as a truly cross-party manifesto, and has been relaunched, I believe, at least twice since then.

I took a great interest in it when I worked in the domestic abuse sector a decade ago, because I saw first hand the devastating impact that trauma can have on babies and young children. So I wholeheartedly welcome the statutory protection for babies that the right hon. Member for the New Forest West is bringing before the House in this
11:09
Alex Brewer Portrait Alex Brewer MP (North East Hampshire, Liberal Democrat)
-
-
bill. But reassuring words do also bill. But reassuring words do also need action, and sadly, the actions of the party he represents have moved in exactly the opposite moved in exactly the opposite direction. This has let families down year after year with down year after year with underinvestment in all the areas that support our children. And I know that there's been a lot of know that there's been a lot of talk of surestart and children's centres, and action for children found that between 2015 and 2018, in just those three years, children's centres average spend per child and the number of children using them fell by around a fifth, with the most deprived areas hit the hardest.

But it isn't just surestart. In North East Hampshire, we used to have a drop in health clinic somewhere. Parents could weigh their babies, meet others and build connections with other members of the local community. It made a real difference, but it stopped operating after the pandemic. Hampshire has 18.5 constituencies, almost 70,000 children under five, and so far only one best start Family Hub. Today, the nearest best start hub for the 5000 children in my constituency is on the other side of Hampshire, and there is nowhere within my community offering a one stop shop for early years support.

When services are closed, then others are stretched to breaking point. Families have nowhere local to turn, and we miss a window of opportunity to invest in a child. That child might arrive at school without the basic skills they need. They might arrive at the GP surgery with avoidable health risks. They are more likely to need further help. That is harder and more expensive to provide. Before becoming an MP, I ran a charity supporting children and young people with down syndrome, working with families from the moment their child was born and indeed sometimes before it was my charity and countless others that stepped in to provide the services that councils were cutting, I saw first hand what early intervention does for a child's health skills and confidence, and what its absence costs.

We saw the impact on families of speech and language therapy, occupational therapy and other interventions that are life changing if provided, especially in those early years. And we saw the impact of the lack of those services to. But while we are focusing, of course, on babies, we must remember that the first 1001 critical days are from conception, nine months of which is pregnancy. So this bill is not just about babies, but also about mothers. The Women and Equalities Select Committee inquiries into medical misogyny, women's reproductive health conditions, marriage, sorry miscarriage and bereavement leave, paternity and shared parental leave and FGM have all found that women are routinely let down across the areas of health, maternity care and scientific research.

Sadly, I expect this surprises nobody, but the impact is felt by everyone, including men and boys, because it is the mother whose concerns are ignored that can result in her son's health conditions worsening, and the father, who has little to no parental leave, has less chance to bond with his children to the detriment of both investing in the first days, weeks and years of a child's life is not only the right thing to do for people, it is the right thing to do for the economy.

Early intervention could generate an estimated £45.5 billion for our economy every year. For every £1 invested, up to £200 comes back. In long term government. The long term benefits. But previous conservative governments have systematically eroded the services need to needed to provide the best start in life. I saw it at the coalface, supporting victims of domestic abuse and their children to flee dangerous and violent partners. They needed the support, yes, of a children's centre, also of social services, the health service.

They needed public transport and a safe and secure roof over their head. They needed reliable maternity services, reliable nursery places and a reliable legal system. Often they got none of those things, and watching the systematic removal of support for the country's most vulnerable people was the exact reason for my journey into politics. We have an opportunity here to repair and build. We have the evidence, we have the numbers. We clearly from today have the cross-party support. We have a country full of children with huge potential who need our support.

We can't afford not to invest in their future. So I heartily welcome this bill as a first step. And I call on the government not to toddle, but to take great strides in providing the essential cross-departmental

**** Possible New Speaker ****

support for parents, carers and here. Here.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Michelle Welsh. Here. Thank you. Madam Deputy Speaker and for complete transparency, I am the complete transparency, I am the National Maternity Advisor to the government. I just wanted to make that clear before I spoke today. I that clear before I spoke today. I wish to place on record my sincere gratitude and thanks for the right hon. Member for New Forest West for bringing this bill to this House. I am genuinely delighted to speak in support of this bill today, because it's a subject matter that goes right to the heart of why I entered public service in the first place.

There is one principle that has
11:15
Michelle Welsh Portrait Michelle Welsh MP (Sherwood Forest, Labour)
-
-
guided me throughout my working life. Where you were born should not determine your future. The not determine your future. The postcode you're born into your parents income where whether you're born in an affluent community or a former mining community, should never determine how healthy you are, how well you do at school, or the opportunities you will have opportunities you will have throughout your life. And if we genuinely believe that, then we have to begin at the beginning. Not have to begin at the beginning.

Not at secondary school, not at primary school. We have to begin during pregnancy, at birth, and in those first precious moments and years when so much of a child's future is being shaped. That is why this bill matters so much. It asks us to look seriously at the support available to babies and families, and whether the provision we have is actually meeting their needs for this. My debate takes me back to the beginning of my own career. In the heyday before coming to this house, I spent years working with children and young people and families, firstly in America for the YMCA, then back home in Nottinghamshire, and then developing surestart services across Nottinghamshire and Derby.

I worked on the front line directly with parents and children, and then I moved into management, helping to develop and plan and coordinate services for families, all based on the principles of early intervention, support and prevention. And I was fortunate to work at a time when there was a real belief that children and families should sit at the centre of public policy. We not only talked about early intervention and prevention, we developed services to deliver it, bringing services together, including things like the common assessment framework and crucially, we talked to parents, families and communities.

I believed in surestart then and I believe in the principles behind it every bit as strongly today, because Surestart was never simply a building with a sign on it. It was an idea, a philosophy not only about how we should treat families, but how we give every child, no matter their background, the best possible start in life. It said that families should not have to be in crisis before somebody helps them. It said that becoming a parent should not mean being handed a list of telephone numbers, and then being expected to navigate half a dozen public services on your own.

It recognised that a child's life does not fit neatly into departmental boxes. There was early education and childcare, health visitors, breastfeeding support, parenting programmes, speech and language support, stay and play sessions, family support and outreach. There was advice about benefits, employment and training. There was support for parents themselves as well as their children and sometimes the most important intervention was not a formal programme at all. Sometimes it was a cup of tea. Now in Nottinghamshire, we understand the power of a brew because what it really means is to stop.

For someone to listen, for someone to care, for someone to help. And while I'm not advocating for tea to necessarily be a national policy, nor an amendment to the bill, and nor will I ever advocate for how the Prime Minister makes a cuppa. I am and always will advocate for those on the working on the front line, having time to care, time to stop and time to listen. Whether that's a support worker in a family hub, a health visitor or a midwife, because sometimes it was a mum walking into a children's centre, sitting down beside someone she'd begun to trust and quietly saying, can I talk to you? That conversation could be the beginning of getting help that mattered.

Relationships mattered and we worked with parents, and I feel incredibly strong about that. Good family policy can't simply be designed in Whitehall and done to people. Parents know their children. They know their communities. They know what works. They know what is missing. And when I worked with parents, we listened to them. We involve them. We ask them what we needed and we learn from them. We understood that the mother who did not attend a group was not necessarily hard to reach.

Perhaps we were hard to reach. Perhaps there was no bus. Perhaps the sessions were at the wrong time. Perhaps she was frightened or being judged. Perhaps she was exhausted. Thank you. And I thank the hon. Member for giving way. You're exactly right. Those places were a place for a cuppa, as we would say, and to be able to go along and without a judgement. And as somebody who'd been a teacher but not had my own children, when I had my second child and didn't know I had post-natal depression, it was in the Surestart centre that it was picked up because somebody knew I wasn't being me, and they were able to pick up.

And it was a really good working relationship with our midwives and with our local GPS, but also with that network of friends that you'd come to trust, whether you were talking about baby's poo or the fact you didn't feel yourself. Thank you. And that's exactly what it was. Was, was exactly what it was all all about. And then when that approach began to change and it did change, I did not want to sit on the sidelines and complain about it. I wanted to do something about it.

And the journey eventually brought me here. I believe the principles behind Surestart should never be consigned to history. We should learn from them, we should build on them and whatever name we put above the door today, the fundamental principle must remain services built around the child and the family. That all begins before a baby is born. It begins with maternity and through my campaign on maternity safety, most importantly through listening to families. Those on the front line charities and organisations have become absolutely convinced that maternity policy cannot sit in a silo separate from children's policy.

Safe maternity care is early years policy. Maternal physical health is early years policy. Maternal mental health is early years policy. Supporting fathers and parents is early years policy, and making sure that women are listened to is early years policy. We cannot talk seriously about giving every baby the best start in life without talking about the care their mothers receive. And I believe we need fundamental reform. This is why one of the most central proposals I've argued for is an independent maternity commissioner, someone whose sole focus is women, babies and families.

Someone with the independence and authority to change, change and challenge the system. Because when something catastrophically goes wrong, families should not have to become investigators. They should not have to understand every layer of the NHS. They should not have to fight organisation after organisation simply to get the truth about what happened to the woman or the baby they love. We also need better national data, proper national standards and a culture where staff can speak up. Good midwives, obstetricians, maternity support workers and other staff who raise concerns should be listened to and protected because a safe culture is one where people can say something is wrong before another family is harmed.

But there's another fundamental part of maternity reform, which I believe is actually fundamental continuity of care. And I want us to be much more ambitious about what we mean by continuity. I do not believe that continuity should mean a good handover from one professional to another. I believe the same person should stay. A woman should be able to build a relationship with someone throughout their maternity journey. That relationship should not simply end because her baby has been born. But every woman leaves hospital following birth as well, with a full debrief, not simple discharge paperwork that is part of prevention and continuity also gives us an opportunity to address the appalling inequalities we see in maternity care.

The latest embrace data show that black women still face nearly three times the maternal mortality risk of white women. Women living in the most deprived areas around the twice maternal mortality rate of women in the least deprived communities. These inequalities are unacceptable, and we cannot simply publish those statistics year after year and call that action. We have to design services that actively confront inequality and discrimination. Continuity can be part of that. If somebody actually knows the woman, knows her history, knows her circumstances, and was responsible for staying with her, it becomes much harder for her concerns to disappear between appointments, and it becomes harder for her to have be forced to tell her story over and over again.

Madam Deputy Speaker, all of this connects directly to the wider health and development of the baby. After maternity comes health visiting, then perhaps a Family Hub early years provision nursery and eventually school government sees these as separate services, separate budgets, sometimes separate departments, appearances. None of that. They see their child, one child, one family, one continuous journey. That is how government should see them too. A health visitor may identify a developmental concern. A mother may need breastfeeding or feeding support.

Parents may notice speech and language difficulties. There may be early indications of C and D that may be housing conditions affecting a child's health. There might be maybe financial pressure. There may be difficulty in the parents relationship. A mother may be experiencing depression. None of these things exist neatly on its own. And the worst possible system is one that waits until a family has deteriorated sufficiently enough to meet a threshold for help. We should not be waiting for a crisis.

Early intervention works. If we can support the mother earlier, we should. If we can help a family earlier, we should. If we can identify a child's need earlier, we should. And if we can prevent someone reaching crisis, we should. This is not wasteful public spending. It is intelligent public spending. And it brings us directly to education. Education can transform a person's life. I know that personally, I was the first person in my family to go to university, but I defeated the odds.

But it does not and should not have to be that way. But if we're serious about closing gaps and engagement, then we have to be honest about when that gap begins. It does not suddenly appear when somebody starts secondary school. For some children, inequality has begun to take hold before they ever walk through those school gates, children arrive in reception having having very different starts in life. But Madam Deputy Speaker, every child deserves the opportunity to fulfil their potential.

That should not be an aspiration reserved for the lucky few. It should be a promise we make to every child born in this country. I know the opposition do not think we should talk about the 1980s, but I do because I know what happens when hope is taken away. Growing up on a council estate in Notts in the 1980s, I lived and breathed it, and now I serve those very communities still still up against it. I came into public service and eventually into politics, because I believe that government can put hope back.

That is what Surestart represented to me. That is what safe maternity care should represent. That is what good health services, early years support and education should represent. Not charity, not not a favour opportunity. The opportunity for a mother to be safe and heard, the opportunity for a family to be supported before they reach crisis. The opportunity for a baby to be given the very best start in life, and the opportunity for every child, whatever street they are born in and whatever their parents earn, to look at their future and believe it belongs to them.

Because ultimately, that is the test of everything we do here, not whether we can write another strategy, not whether we can create another pathway, but whether the child born tonight in the poorest household in this country has the same right to dream, to thrive and to succeed as a child born into the richest. Because where you are born should never determine your future. But Madam Deputy Speaker, what we choose to do in this House can.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Gloucester Kieran Mullan. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It's a pleasure to speak in this debate. Can I begin by debate. Can I begin by congratulating the Member for New Forest West for his achievement in bringing this bill forward? And we bringing this bill forward? And we all know how varied our job is here in this place, and he's a testament to that. After all these decades, to get something brand new, I think, to get something brand new, I think, is a test to all of us to keep doing new things in this place, however short or long our time is however short or long our time is here.

And I wanted to speak in this debate and support this bill, because actually, I think this is one of if not, I would argue, the most important issue that sits before any society, and that's how to successfully raise the next generation. And the manner of that challenge has changed enormously over the course of human history. When even just a few hundred years ago, the single biggest thing you could do if you were successfully raise your child was getting them to adulthood to make it.

50% of all children died before they reached adulthood, I mean, just a few hundred years ago. And we look at that now. In this country, the equivalent figure is around 0.5%. And whilst the loss of every child is a tragedy, you've seen those figures that the big change and the challenge that parents face, and in fact, suicide accounts for a quarter of all deaths of older teenagers in this country. Now, as another way of illustrating the difference, the challenge before
11:29
Kieran Mullan Portrait Dr Kieran Mullan MP (Bexhill and Battle, Conservative)
-
-
parents now, more than anything, is to raise content, productive children who go on to lead fulfilled lives as part of a much fulfilled lives as part of a much more complicated society. And actually, my interest in this area is one of the main driving forces for me, wanting to get into politics and dates back to my time as a as a medical student and some of the experiences and patients of the experiences and patients that I've met. I remember in particular, one lady who came to see me the first time I was in see me the first time I was in placement at a GP practice, and I saw her as a student and she had come to see the GP because she didn't know how to get her children to go to bed on time.

And I remember thinking, what an absolutely valid thing to want to

**** Possible New Speaker ****

have help with, but thinking what is going on in wider Society that the GP was the

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Society that the GP was the person that she felt she was the only person she felt she could get that help with. And I also remember in my paediatrics placement, a very dynamic paediatric professor who who sat us down and gave us a who sat us down and gave us a seminar and taught me for the first time about attachment theory, and that I was astounded to know that that I was astounded to know that at age, you could test whether or not a child was attached to their caregivers, and if they were, that was an enormous predictor of their future health outcomes.

And then all the way to the other end of the spectrum, as an A&E doctor looking after very, very often older patients, both as an early adopter and just a general hospital doctor and often wondering where their children were, that what's gone on in their family, that there wasn't a bond or attachment between and amongst those families, that they're very often left, you know, many, many days without anyone coming to see them in hospital. And then across my work as a volunteer policeman, meeting young people on council estates, where, where, where membership of gangs and crime were rife and finding some young people managed to overcome those challenges.

And the thing that seemed to stand out to me that was a protective factor for them was the parental and family environment. And we've heard a lot today about the challenges and the perspective of parents. I'm not a parent. I hope to be one day, but I'm not apparent at the moment. So I wanted to just offer that the perspective that we all have of as a child on the on the receiving end of what we're talking about today. Because what I began to reflect on was the difference that all these people that I met and these scenarios I came across, how different they were to my own experience.

My parents are divorced, so it's not some perfect image of what a family looks like. But I felt incredibly supportive and loved and taught enormously the importance of values and morals, and actually in a way that only a parent can do, even in the opposition sometimes to the state. I remember particularly, I had an ambition to study medicine, going to a parents evening one particular time with my chemistry A-level teacher telling me I was predicted to fail that A-level and had absolutely no chance of getting into medicine.

And it was my mum who was absolutely determined for me to overcome that challenge. It was my mum that coached me in, you know, after work in the evenings to to pass my 11 plus to get into a grammar school. All these things came from my parents and, and my dad as well in different ways. And

**** Possible New Speaker ****

so I just began to ponder, OK. Giving way, would you agree with me that every parent or most parents would want to provide that parents would want to provide that level of support for their children? But given where we are economically But given where we are economically and, and in our country, many are unable to provide that support due unable to provide that support due to more primary commitments of breadwinning and putting food on the table. And, and the message the table.

And, and the message from across the house to have a joined up approach to early years,

**** Possible New Speaker ****

both prenatal and postnatal, is absolutely key. Intervention, because it brings

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Intervention, because it brings me nicely to the point I was going to make. What you have to avoid in these scenarios is giving across any sense of judgement or or lecturing of parents who aren't able to do that, because there are very many reasons why parents are different, though it isn't just about time or money, there is also good research about links between good research about links between future life outcomes and values and ideas that are in amongst your kind of upbringing.

All sorts of factors and how difficult it is and how much things have changed. Actually, just several decades ago, most people were raising their parents within, raising their own children with a short, within short walking distance of their wider kinship network. And actually, most people saw their own parents every other day at least. And there was that wider network of people that were involved in raising the child. But just physically is much more difficult to achieve these days. And then we have all the focus we've had on social media and all the challenges that that, that that prevents.

I go on to thank the 1001 Critical Days Foundation later, but one of the things they have done is commissioned research on screen time for babies and actually already shown just for babies. The impact of excessive screen time is having when our focus has been on older children. And if we get this wrong, the consequences are there for everybody to see. Shadow justice Minister. So if we look at just crime, for example, that cost us between 100 and 17, £250 billion a year. And we know that as a if as a child you experience four or more adverse childhood events, you're more than 20 times more likely to end up in custody at some point in your time as an adult.

So all these things are interconnected. And so the question is, of course, is how we is how do we help? And I had the privilege of visiting Sidley Family Hub in my constituency relatively recently and spoke to the professionals there that meet and work with parents every day. And I asked them individually, what's the most important thing that you would say that you do? And they said the most important thing they do consistently across people from all backgrounds was that you tell them it's OK to ask for help.

It's OK to to say, I need help, can I get help? And it's challenging that stigma so that everyone feels like it's alright to ask for help. You know, we don't think we can necessarily do the plumbing or the gas or the electrics in our houses without help. And I would say parenting is ten times more complicated and difficult than any of those jobs. It isn't. It's normal to think you might need some help at various points of the way. And so coming back to this particular bill and why I support this bill is a few reasons.

The first is its focus on babies, because anything else we do further down the chain isn't going to be as good as we do. Anything that we do at the start of the chain, that anything we do to help a parent be a more effective parent, to help them understand the role and support them to do that. The sooner you do that, the more you're going to get back from that investment. So I would think I think our funding pyramid in this area is completely the wrong way round.

That money builds up and builds up as we go further and further down the journey. And if that money was spent on day one and conception onwards, we would get much more for that. The second is particularly clause one two B, because it says specifically about supporting the relationship between a parent or carer and infant, because it is about relationships as much as it is about anything else. And I think it's great that the bill puts that so clearly. And thirdly, the need to report on a regular basis.

We all know that reporting doesn't necessarily create the impacts and change that we want, but it's a very, very powerful tool for parliamentarians across parties and across governments to make an issue difficult to move the spotlight away from. So I very much welcome the reporting, and I also just want to touch on the terminology, the fact that it talks about carers. I very recently met with a kinship carer in my constituency who was looking after her own grandchildren. What an enormous service people like that do to our society in so many different ways.

Not just kinship carers, but adoptive parents and others, just purely financially. The money that would be spent on children who were otherwise in care of some form or another is, is astronomical. And these people take that burden on. And actually it's natural and it's human to want to do that. And I don't think we should be thinking about them doing it for money or paying them. We should want to look after your wider family network, but the very least, we should be spending money and making sure that it's as easy as possible for them to do that.

So if anybody ever said to them, how was it being a kinship carer that we know every single kinship carer is going to be a cheerleader and a champion for it? Because they'll say it was difficult, but I felt fantastically supported. I don't think I've ever

**** Possible New Speaker ****

met a kinship carer who says that about their experience of being a kinship carer. The hon. Member rightly highlights the fantastic work of highlights the fantastic work of kinship carers, and I think one of the areas that often goes unrecognised are those siblings unrecognised are those siblings that take on their younger brothers and sisters because they may have experienced care themselves and experienced care themselves and when they hit adulthood, and we have to make sure that that service that wraps around them also that wraps around them also provides them an opportunity to be successful in their life whilst caring for their brothers and sisters.

Yeah.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank her for raising that because actually, again, those people stepping up in those circumstances are incredibly important. But again, all of us, if we have siblings, know the importance of siblings, of helping each other out and supporting each other through life, I've other through life, I've experienced that all these wider family networks do so much that if they weren't there and they weren't doing it, the state would end up picking up the bill and that that wouldn't be good for anybody.

So I really want to pay tribute to the really want to pay tribute to the recognition that this bill gives to what, you know, the wider set of people that are involved in, in raising children. So I just want to conclude by, again, thanking the the Member for New Forest West and also thanking the 1001 Critical Days Foundation and paying tribute, as many others have to the Right Honourable Dame Andrea Leadsom and the work that she has done over many years and as a.

Also joining my the Member for Ribble Valley. I'm an officer of the APPG for babies, and I want to thank the Parent Infant Foundation for the work they do as the Secretariat for that group, and it's a great opportunity. This bill is to to channel so much of the work that we want to do as part of that. APPG. So I really welcome this debate. Welcome the the attention it's given to what, as I said, I think is the most important task ahead of any society.

And that's raising the next generation successfully.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Yeah. John Grady Madam Deputy Speaker And I start by paying tribute to And I start by paying tribute to the right hon. Member for New Forest, who has served our family of nations in many different ways, with real distinction and ensuring that we are here discussing how we ensure that our society treats ensure that our society treats every baby with compassion and love and provides them with safety, I would say, is his finest achievement, and I welcome the fact that so many have come along to
11:39
John Grady Portrait John Grady MP (Glasgow East, Labour)
-
-
signal to our family of nations that this is such an important that this is such an important topic. For my own part, as a Labour Member of Parliament, I'm immensely Member of Parliament, I'm immensely proud of my favourite policy of the 1997 to 2010 government surestart. 1997 to 2010 government surestart. And what I would say is being an MP and being able to change laws is something precious. And being a something precious. And being a government MP, I say a Labour Government MP is immensely precious to me.

Now, Madam Deputy Speaker, I find it helpful as a recovering lawyer to road test drafting against real life examples of what might happen and what we're seeking to do, one must ask Will this bill work in the real world? And I say it will. And I've assessed the bill against the serious safeguarding issues raised in the Glasgow Public Protection Committee's learning. Review about report about family. See. This report pointed to catastrophic failures in the care of. For babies and children in my home city, the neglect and abuse of the children was catastrophic, and the system that was meant to protect them did not protect them.

Against that, I turn to the first duty in the bill, which is a duty on and a power for the Secretary of State to make regulations for specifying the services which are relevant to good outcomes for babies and the family. See. Case points to an important issue here. When the Secretary of State comes to exercise her discretion, and that is what services should be covered. This will need very, very careful for. Consider, for example, homelessness services. What the report shows was that there were 12 occasions where housing and homelessness services came into contact with the family and could have had the opportunity to identify and report risk factors.

This did not happen. And another example of the sort of service that the Secretary of State will need to grapple with is Health and Dentistry Services. This example, Madam Deputy Speaker, occurs in 2010 where child A is free and child B is less than four months old. In February, child A was diagnosed with a squint and referred but not brought to the appointment. Child B was diagnosed with a small heart defect. By April, he had missed three outpatient cardiology appointments.

For today's purpose, it points to the importance of the careful exercise of the power of a bill. So for all relevant services for babies are captured. And I applaud the bill for another reason, because it signals to those involved in the care of children how important the care of babies are. It is Parliament speaking to the professionals involved, and I wish to make some remarks about duty free. The Bill provides for duty on the Secretary of State to consult parents, carers, prospective parents and carers when making the assessment of the level of need of services and to take those views into account, and for all the reasons set out by the member.

My good friend the Member for Sherwood Forest, this is a very, very important requirement. However, I am anxious about one point. I do appreciate that it is not possible to consult with babies, but whilst adults have a voice expressly specified in the statutory framework, babies and children do not have a voice on the face of the bill. And related to that is the central principle underpinning child protection law that the law should act and we should act in the best interests of the welfare of a baby and child.

So the Children Act in 1989 in England and Wales, explains what the courts. Considering these matters, the child's welfare shall be the court's paramount consideration, and in Scotland, the analogous 1995 act provides that the welfare of a child throughout his childhood shall be the paramount consideration, and it naturally follows from the use of the word paramount that the child's interests must be prioritised over any adults in the child's life. Now, a potential response to what I say is that this is all obvious, but even though it is obvious to all of us here, it is not always acted on.

Children are not listened to. A lesson from the Learning Review is that the staff in Glasgow did not ensure they were listening to the children and observing what the children were saying through their words. The learning review explains that indicators of distress, like head banging and deliberately seeking eye contact with professionals, was not considered, and the children's welfare was not considered paramount. When there was a conflict between the welfare of the children and what the adults were saying and the adults, the baby's welfare was not prioritised over that of the children.

At page 28 we read over all professionals accepted for parent's views of the children's behaviour as being challenging. When staff raised concerns about the children's care with the parents, they would effectively shift the issue to what it meant for themselves. Charles A's behaviour was generally described by staff. From a parent's perspective, her behaviour was challenging. I would gently suggest that some serious thought is given to ensuring that the operation of the bill, and perhaps even the drafting, gives greater weight to the interests of the babies, and some sort of mechanism to give babies a voice in the assessment and the bill's process.

I now wish to make some brief remarks on duty for ensuring an appropriate level of provision. This is another important provision in the Bill, and it requires the Secretary of State to assess an appropriate level of provision. I believe this is critical in Scotland as well, and I hope the Scottish Government looks at this Bill and considers whether something similar should be introduced in Scotland. What this very sensible provision calls for is an assessment not just of the number of social workers or the amount of money spent.

It calls for an assessment of the quality of the services. Are there sufficient senior social workers and so forth. And in this regard, one of the many questions left unanswered by the Learning Review is whether or not the overall level of service provision in Glasgow is adequate. The Learning Review doesn't address this, but it's a very important question for what happens to those babies, really points to a lack of appropriate resources. Child A was born in 2007 to an adult mother who had serious substance misuse problems.

She was born with neonatal abstinence syndrome and as a result of this was placed on the Child Protection Register. Despite this, there was no adequate scrutiny of the adults involved in the child's life. No qualified social worker was allocated to child A a baby at the time. From February 2008 to October 2009, when February 2008 to October 2009, when adult E was pregnant with child B. This is despite very many serious issues being identified. And this is the important point about this bill.

It calls for an assessment about whether we are putting adequate resources into the safeguarding of babies, and it's an essential question that must be asked. In Scotland. Two. This bill is an incredibly important bill. It forces this House because it will result in reports being laid in this House and the other place to grapple with whether we are doing everything possible to give babies, young children, the best possible start in life. It is underpinned by a critical point.

I think that each and every person in this House today shares, for our youngest children must be treated with love, compassion and safety. I have concerns and their voices should not be dismissed. And for that reason, Madam Deputy Speaker, I am

**** Possible New Speaker ****

delighted to support this bill here. Bobby Dean thank you, Madam

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Bobby Dean thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and thank you again to the right hon. Member for New Forest West for bringing this bill Forest West for bringing this bill to this House. I know at first it was perhaps reluctantly, but I feel like it is enthusiastically now. like it is enthusiastically now. Amanda Hack speaker, you may be forgiven for thinking that we are from slightly different backgrounds, but I'm here today to make the case but I'm here today to make the case that we're from exactly the same background.

We were both starting out life in nappies, weighing crying out for our mothers. We both started out with approximately, I would say, the same level of potential with all those 100 billion neurones in our brain waiting to be fused together as they try to understand the world. And this, I think, is what the bill is about, about maximising every single one of those baby's potential. I'm arguably I'm not sure people might want to interview Parliament's newest parent. 141 born.
11:48
Bobby Dean Portrait Bobby Dean MP (Carshalton and Wallington, Liberal Democrat)
-
-
Yeah yeah, yeah.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

And so I've had a front row seat in this amazing show and getting to in this amazing show and getting to see the development of my baby over the course of this summer has been phenomenal. Her first smile, her phenomenal. Her first smile, her first sort of belly laugh, working out how to roll over from her back onto her front, initially onto her front, initially completely ignoring the dog and now wanting to tug its ears every time the dog goes past. It's just been amazing watching every single one amazing watching every single one of those interactions happen and how her brain is developing and building an understanding of the world.

But I would be lying if I didn't say it wasn't also a bit of a worry. It's a worry because we're now hyper aware of how critical these moments are about how each one of these interactions are setting out a pathway for the rest of her life. And the first 101,001 days movement, I've been explaining to us how these critical, these early moments are for their long run physical and emotional development, how we are shaping the development of their brain, and directing the potential for the rest of their lives.

In each one of these early moments. And knowing this, of course, makes it unforgivable that so much provision for children and babies has been cut back over the past decade or so, as if it was some sort of luxury that was unaffordable. Now that we've got other priorities, such as cutting the grass verges in our local areas, well, this bill, this bill seeks to draw a line in the sand and say, never again. It speaks up for babies, and it makes it a statutory requirement for the state to demonstrate how they are meeting baby's needs.

It is a critical step forward in society's recognition of how our brains develop and how we create opportunity for the next generation, but has already been reflected upon. This bill does set the floor and not the ceiling. And so we do look to the government now to build on the foundations that this bill sets and make sure that those principles that we all stand here today in agreement upon are built into a practical reality. The Healthy Babies programme is currently only available in 75 local authority areas, and it excludes places like mine at the moment.

And I know that the government has made a commitment in its ten year plan to make sure that that is universal, and I urge them to accelerate that, to deliver that as quickly as possible. There's also not much specificity about what services are required, but it would be great for the government to come forward as soon as possible to bring clarity to that, and I'd like to add my own request about some of the services that I think will be essential to deliver to babies and parents in the coming years.

We already know that health visitors talk to mothers about nutrition, safe sleep, bonding between the babies and parents, but I think that there is another dimension that we need to add, and that is to do with screen time. Now, it's already government advice that there shouldn't be solo screen time for Under-twos, but that is extremely poorly understood. By 24 months, it's now normal for routine screenings by babies of under two, and 1 in 10 are exposed to over four hours per day of screen time.

So instead of learning through social interaction, they're being induced into these sort of dopamine daisies effect that's affecting their sleep, their meal times and their emotional regulation. And so I believe that the damage that's being done is so great that we should make clear that this is also an essential requirement to educate parents

**** Possible New Speaker ****

about from day one as well. Happily give away. Just does the hon. Member agree

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Just does the hon. Member agree that actually, as much as we know the damage that screen time can do, actually a good majority of parents, when they use screens, it's not a when they use screens, it's not a case that they think that that's the best thing for their child, but actually it's often used as actually it's often used as childcare or a way to get the team to do the hon. Member agree with me that it would be critical for this government to do research into why parents rely so much on screen time, and how we can support parents to not have to.



**** Possible New Speaker ****

I wholeheartedly agree, and, you know, as I've just spoken about, I'm experienced parenthood myself. I know how difficult it is to keep I know how difficult it is to keep a baby calm. And I completely understand why parents are, are, are using devices at the moment as are using devices at the moment as a means to regulating their child. What I don't think is well understood enough is about some of the damage that's being done. And the damage that's being done. And so I would like that to be formalised.

I also think that, you know, it's not about zero screen know, it's not about zero screen time. The government advice is about no solo screen time for, you know, extended periods. It's fine to still share a FaceTime call with your grandparents. I think that's OK. And if there's an educational interaction, that's OK as well. But it's about building that education so that every parent understands the impact of extended screen time

**** Possible New Speaker ****

for Under-twos as well. On that point, will you? I'll happily give way. I thank my hon. Friend for

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank my hon. Friend for giving way. Just to extend that point, would you agree with me that use of screens by adults or people use of screens by adults or people in the room with the child can also have adverse impact, and it's almost like second hand smoke in almost like second hand smoke in the 80s. You know, now we've banned smoking indoors to protect people who do not smoke, including who do not smoke, including children. And I think the education for parents and carers on using screens in the presence of, rather than allowing the child to use is also important to understand.



**** Possible New Speaker ****

I agree, and I'm learning this lesson live and direct at the moment, and we've. We've actually bought devices to make us lock our bought devices to make us lock our phones away, essentially to try and improve this ourselves. The temptation is always there. Phones are such a part of our daily lives, are such a part of our daily lives, but it is damaging our interactions with our children, particularly during feeding times and making during feeding times and making those essential contacts. It's an important development, and I think we we should look to make sure that we we should look to make sure that we formalise education parents on this point.

And before I close, I just want to reflect on just how significant I think this bill could be. In the late 19th century, just two out of 4 million primary school children actually attended school. And it wasn't until 1870 when a liberal, William Forster, introduced the Elementary School Act that mandated attendance at school. At this age, it was a statutory commitment, and what was once deemed as a bit unfortunate became unthinkable. And I believe that this bill could have the same effect for babies.

Making their development at this early stage is critical. Thousand and one days a real focus for society. So never again do we think it's unfortunate that they miss out on such provisions, but it becomes unthinkable. And so I'm proud to

**** Possible New Speaker ****

support this debate today. Tracy Gilbert thank. You, Madam Deputy Speaker.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

You, Madam Deputy Speaker. Can I begin by congratulating the hon. Member from New Forest West and becoming the first in the private member's bill ballot and bringing forward the Infant Care and Parents Bill. In the last session, my private member's bill session, my private member's bill was the first to pass through this place and the other place, so I wish the member similar success wish the member similar success with this very important bill. Having taken through a private member's bill, I know full well the hard work that he and his team will be putting into those proposals, and I want to put on record my thanks to them for doing so.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I welcome the opportunity to speak on the floor of the House today about the
11:55
Tracy Gilbert Portrait Tracy Gilbert MP (Edinburgh North and Leith, Labour)
-
-
importance of a baby's first thousand days of life. We all know the love, care and attention the love, care and attention newborn babies need to thrive. By the time they reach 1001 days old, they will have already progressed they will have already progressed to having some form of independence and eating and communicating. But and eating and communicating. But the devastating fact is that in the same time frame, the impact of financial and health inequalities financial and health inequalities will already be visible, and the gap between the most affluent and the most deprived areas will already be evident in toddlers groups and nurseries across our communities.

And for us on this side of the House, tackling those inequalities is a fundamental goal. It is why we wanted to be elected to eradicate this unfairness, and I am therefore keen to hear from the Minister in her summing up how this Bill could further the government's ambitious tackling child poverty strategy. However, today, Madam Deputy Speaker, I want to speak about the focus of the growing number of babies across the UK who are born as a result of a surrogacy arrangement, either here in the UK or abroad.

We cannot be absolutely sure how many babies have been born through surrogacy arrangement, but what we do know is that a number of parental orders granted by the courts, in line with the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Act 2008, increased from 132 in 20 11 to 450 and 2021. The number of babies being born as a result of surrogacy is far more than a handful of cases. That Surrogacy Arrangement Act in 1985 had intended to cover the growing number of babies being born as a result of surrogacy arrangements poses a serious issue that we, as legislators must address.

I do not intend to cover all these points today, but instead want to focus on two areas in particular. Madam Deputy Speaker, is that the number of UK nationals using commercial surrogacy arrangements abroad is on the rise. The explosion in international surrogacy is estimated to be worth a $200 billion industry by 2032. Too many babies in their first 1001 days are being left in a legal limbo because the Surrogacy Arrangements Act did not legislate for overseas commercial surrogacy arrangements, and in this place has not taken a view, as far as I am aware, so or held a debate on this issue.

My position is clear we should follow our our EU partners in Spain, France and Germany and banning surrogacy. And at the very least, we should work in this place to prevent the harms caused by international surrogacy. Madam Deputy Speaker, the failure of this House to have debated the increasing use of international surrogacy arrangements has resulted in different rules applying between adoption and surrogacy. For instance, the Children and Adoption Act 2006 places a duty on the Secretary of State to maintain and publish a list of countries where restrictions on inter-country adoption apply.

Yet a similar process does not exist for surrogacy. In 2021, the then Secretary of State used this power to place Nigeria on the list of restricted countries, therefore preventing all adoptions between the UK and Nigeria. The reasons given for this decision, which is still in place today, includes unreliable documentation, corruption and evidence of child trafficking. These harmful and illegal practices are not isolated to adoption. For example, earlier this year, a Nigerian police force made five arrests exposing child trafficking and illegal surrogacy syndicate under the guise of an orphanage.

There is no law currently preventing a child born in these circumstances being brought to the UK. This void in legislation creates a vacuum where children's welfare and children's rights are left unprotected, whilst fuelling the international surrogacy syndicates that put women and girls in developing countries at further risk. My second point, Madam Deputy Speaker, is in relation to procedures and guidance around surrogacy that is available to midwives, doctors, nurses and health teams in maternity wards. It is often out of date and very patchy in some parts of the country.

Midwives may experience a number of births involving a surrogate. Others may see very few or none at all. It is therefore even more important than up to date guidance is available with the very best information, so that the care of the mother and child, both pre and post-birth, are the very best it can be through freedom of information requests to all Scottish NHS boards, I discovered that only NHS Ayrshire and Arran and NHS Fife have active guidance in place for midwives and clinician teams on the care and treatment of surrogate mothers and babies, ensuring that the law is followed and where they themselves can access support of the Scottish NHS boards.

Five have no policy at all. One has a policy in draft form, four have a policy, but the review of the policy is overdue and one refers to the Department for Health and Social Care guidance. Madam Deputy Speaker, Midwives across Scotland are being left to their own devices on ensuring babies born under a surrogacy arrangement receive uninterrupted care and treatment. I would encourage the Department for Health and Social Security to make sure that maternity wards and midwives across England are not left in the same position when.

point.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I will. Give way. The member is making a very passionate speech on international surrogacy, as she international surrogacy, as she does, as she has done so on adoption in previous contributions, adoption in previous contributions, and I commend the efforts of the Member for New Forest West as well in bringing this new law in. Does in bringing this new law in. Does she agree with the point made by the member from my friend, the Member for Glasgow East, that the Scottish Government should closely Scottish Government should closely follow what is happening in this House today and consider similar laws on on the rights of babies and

**** Possible New Speaker ****

also on surrogacy. To you. I thank my hon. Friend for the intervention, and I absolutely agree that the Scottish Government agree that the Scottish Government must take some action around this. But in conclusion. In conclusion, Madam Deputy Speaker, I be keen to Madam Deputy Speaker, I be keen to see if there were some areas where I can work with the hon. Member for North New Forest West and I could look to change the law and ensure that babies born through surrogacy arrangement and the women giving arrangement and the women giving birth to them are no longer forgotten.



**** Possible New Speaker ****

Deputy. Speaker, and I would like to join many others today in congratulating the right hon. congratulating the right hon. Member for New Forest West in securing this debate, but then also congratulating him on his choice of topic, because it does feel to be topic, because it does feel to be an enormous amount of agreement in the in the chamber today. And I know that he's secured cross-party support for it, which is which is excellent. Like everyone else here, I wholeheartedly welcome this bill.

I wholeheartedly welcome this bill. And whilst I, like I'm sure many others, do not have my own children, I am an aunt to four. I am a
12:02
Rebecca Smith Portrait Rebecca Smith MP (South West Devon, Conservative)
-
-
godmother also to. Four, and I am a friend to many, many people who have had children since I was. I've have had children since I was. I've been looking after my friend's kids since I was about 18, so I'm pretty adept at changing nappies. I know adept at changing nappies. I know how to get them to smile. I know how to do all of those things. And I think someone else has also mentioned the value of that wider mentioned the value of that wider family and friendship group.

So I'm very pleased from that perspective to to be able to speak in support to to be able to speak in support of this bill. And as a result, I know that there is a reason that we say the hand that rocks the cradle is the hand that rules the world, because those earliest years really do matter profoundly. Now, during this first 1001 day period, secure attachment we know is built through a baby's everyday interactions with their parents or carer, or indeed their aunties and uncles.

A smile, a cuddle, a comforting voice. Those simple moments lay the foundations for emotional well-being, and I certainly hope that the 24 hours I had with my 18 month old nephew, where I was the only person to provide him all of those things added to his wellbeing rather than detracting from it. We'll see in a few years time, but I think he generally knows who I am and is happy to see me, so that's fine. By the age of two, a child's brain reaches around 80% of its adult size and mums and dads literally build babies brains, which is something that the Right Honourable Lord Cameron has said in the past.

So by supporting parents from the very beginning, we can improve outcomes for children and reduce the need for costly state intervention later down the line. And that is why I support this bill's intention to put services during pregnancy and early childhood on a statutory footing. Now, the reporting requirements in this bill will mean that decisions about funding cannot be made in the dark. This will ensure that services such as Best Start Family Hubs and the Healthy Babies Programme remain a government priority.

Family Hubs, we know, provide a vital one stop shop for parents. They bring together practical support under one roof, from breastfeeding advice to helping reducing parental conflict. Now, Plymouth is one of the original 75 local authorities that were selected to participate in the conservative government's original Family Hubs programme back in 2022, and the council has now successfully established a network of 11 hubs. However, interestingly, there have been reports recently about funding changes, who's responsible, what's going on, and trying to find out information on what's actually happening has been really difficult.

So anything that ensures that reporting back is done, particularly around funding and sustainability, where that is, external agencies who are providing those services is going to be particularly important because there's a real advocate for Family Hubs. When people come to me and say that people working in them are being made redundant, I want to know what's going on and whether the delivery is actually continuing. It's also important, Madam Deputy Speaker, to, to, to remind ourselves that the value of these family hubs are that they're open to everyone, although I do believe that more can be done to encourage parents to use them, because so far only 60%, 16 I mean, percent of parents with a child under five have used a family hub, despite 66% having heard of them, which is according to a poll from the NSPCC.

So it's clear that we need to do

**** Possible New Speaker ****

more on that. What are the other challenges? I heard that in the Family Hub that I visited is in some constituencies visited is in some constituencies like mine, we have we have towns, but we have lots of different villages that have perhaps very, very, very far away. And I, I agree with the idea that people have to physically go somewhere. I think it's just an example of where funding for rural authorities needs to reflect the sorts of additional costs there is in providing all sorts of services, including things like Family Hubs.



**** Possible New Speaker ****

like Family Hubs. Yeah, and I thank my hon. Friend for that point. He makes a very good point, and it's something I'm particularly passionate on. I've spoken a lot about it this week about funding for rural services, particularly under local government reorganisation. And actually, I think that's something that's going to be really important to that future structure of unitary councils. How do we make sure that those villages and the smaller towns get access to these family hubs and whatever else comes about as this bill and aren't reliant on needing a car to get to it or, you know, infrequent public services or anything like that.

So actually, I'm glad he's mentioned that because that gives me even more reasons to be continuing on my journey against local government reorganisation in my constituency, for a start. But it also highlights how what we also see is we want every community to have one, and I'm considered the MP from the slightly well off bit of Plymouth now. So I'm incredibly grateful that the City Council did set one up in my constituency. But there's whole communities in my constituency such as Plymstock, where I was a councillor for many years that don't have a wellbeing hub and they don't have a families hub.

So we do need to make sure that if we're going to do this, we do it properly. I do want to take the opportunity, Madam Deputy Speaker, to remind the House today, though, that Family Hubs are a conservative innovation grounded in the principle that strong families make a strong society. And I'm delighted that the Labour government has committed to build on our success and roll out Family Hubs to all local authorities, not just those initial 75. And I think I also want to say that they're not merely surestart rebranded.

Sure,

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I'll quickly. Just on the historical point, I

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Just on the historical point, I can't stop myself and the 1918 Infant Welfare Act probably preceded some of the things you're about to say, I think, and and some of the measures the hon. Gentleman opposite talked about in terms of a long history of efforts to introduce child welfare.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

introduce child welfare. I thank the hon. Lady. And I did actually refer to one mention to one of my colleagues the other day one of my colleagues the other day that this entire debate is effectively catnip for for the benches over there, because it is that opportunity to highlight that they have cared more about families and children. The Conservatives are. Well, I don't believe that. I believe that we've always cared about the vulnerable and ensuring the right thing, and actually to bring it slightly back to the point and to just bring it down a little bit in terms of the the temperature in the room.

I do want to actually talk, though, about what is good about Family Hubs and why they are different. And there's a really key point in that. And this is to say that they aren't just sure start rebranded now. Surestart did good things, but we felt at the time that they weren't necessarily targeting in the right way. And Lord farmer from the other place, who I pay significant tribute to this morning, actually announced this afternoon. And if it weren't for his work and his commitment in all sorts of ways and personal commitment and the way he's, you know, effectively trailblazed the Family Hubs piece, we wouldn't be here today because actually, I think it has provided a model that we can then replicate.

And that's not to say that Surestart didn't give that opportunity to do similar, but the distinctive thing on what Lord farmer has set up and what we put into practice when we were last in government, and what he is seeking to work with the government to continue to do is it's not just about early years, it's about right up to the age of 19. And regardless of what we think about where we've been in the past and what they're called and what they do, I think we all agree that actually we need to provide that support right through to when a child is 19 with those families have got that opportunity.

We've heard many people speaking about the challenges in teenage life. If we don't get it right at intervention.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank the honourable. Member for giving way. I think the point here, just to bring it the point here, just to bring it back to the bill and to take the temperature down. To be fair, nobody over here took it up is that nobody over here took it up is that we this this particular space and time, this first thousand days hasn't been protected. And I agree, of course, we need to take it of course, we need to take it through to.

19 but the challenge we've had previously is when shortstop was sort of rolled back shortstop was sort of rolled back and we'll say it like that. Councils found themselves in the position where they were using one pot of funding to take over, to take that journey from, from, from conception to teenage years, who were competing with youth services that help with that late intervention and early intervention, which we're talking about today. It's actually protecting this time means that we can actually invest properly and hopefully bring down the cost of those youth services

**** Possible New Speaker ****

and things we get later on down, down the line. I hope you can agree on that point. Thank you. Yeah, I thank the hon. Member

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Yeah, I thank the hon. Member for that contribution. And of course, absolutely, if we're going to do this properly, we have to make sure the funding is there, which I think is the entire point of what the right hon. Gentleman has done in this bill. So I agree has done in this bill. So I agree with that. But the great thing about Family Hubs is they also set out this intention right from the start, that actually it's not just start, that actually it's not just OK to ring fence the money until they're five.

We need to make sure that we're looking at that all the way through. And there's a lot more work on both sides of the house to do to develop what that looks like going forward. So I actually do think we're in pretty good agreement on this, whether it is for up to five or beyond. At the end of the day, we want families and young people to have the best start, as the name suggests. And also, though it is worth pointing out that that requirement for Family Hubs is for children up or the age up to the age of 25, where there are special educational needs and disabilities.

So there's clearly a lot more thinking to be done. But I do appreciate that this bill is specifically looking at that ring fence of under fives. But ultimately what we don't want is a cliff edge. We don't want children to get to five. And suddenly all of this support drops off because we aren't maintaining and making the most of that family hub model as it was established. Now, when I visited the Reece Family and Wellbeing Hub in Plympton, which is the one in my constituency, I was understandably very impressed with what is going on there.

It's a brilliant community asset. It's been there since the 60s. I think, you know, you can do your breastfeeding chat. You can. But what's also amazing is they have a time bank there. So when you go, you see all these mums bringing in their babies to see the health visitor or to have to be weighed. All of the things that a family hub would do for those under-fives. But you also see the older people in the community coming to, to meet and to socialise and to, to do things together.

And I think when a, when a family hub or a best art centre is truly embedded in a community, it actually has that opportunity to be a place where all sorts of things are delivered and where we can find places to do that combined delivery. I think they're even better than. What we don't want is them to become these centres where only people with children go, and only people who have got families go to open them up and do as much as possible within the community, I think really takes to the heart of what they can do.

So I think it is really important that we look at the whole picture, as well as focusing on that first 1001 days, and I look forward to hearing how this government intends to make sure it does do that delivery of Family Hubs right up to the age of 19. When the Minister responds later. Now, as we discussed earlier support, I believe there is a little elephant in the room. Now, evidence consistently shows that children under the age of two need to be nurtured by their parents, primarily.

And I think we're all saying the same thing today, but it's my personal view that parental presence requires childcare choice. More than two thirds of working mothers with pre-school children say they would work fewer hours if they could afford it, according to the Department for Education. But too often parents feel pushed towards a one size fits all model of formal childcare, and I believe that we need to explore where we can offer parents more options in the earliest years and free them up to do what they feel is best for them and their family.

Because it's not about telling parents what to do, it's about trusting them to make the right decisions for their family. We must never forget who matters the most to the baby. It is their parents, and we should do everything we can to help mums and dads and their carers be present at much as much as we can. This Bill must be the start of a wholesale reframing of family support every stage of childhood matters and we must back families every step of the way.

And that's why I'm very keen to support the bill today.
12:14
Natasha Irons Portrait Natasha Irons MP (Croydon East, Labour)
-
-
Natasha Irons thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and can I congratulate the right hon. Member congratulate the right hon. Member for New Forest West for this wonderful bill that he's bringing forward and for this debate today, and I'd like to thank the and I'd like to thank the honourable my hon. Friend the Member for Washington and Gateshead South, for her tireless work on on South, for her tireless work on on this up and down the country. Madam Deputy Speaker, it's kind of a bittersweet time for parents at the moment.

We've enjoyed spending the summer with our children creating lasting memories, but we're also celebrating not being asked to provide a snack for the last ten minutes or worrying if someone's fallen down the stairs like like in my house. So it's a it's a bittersweet time in our in our household, we are celebrating my eldest putting on a blazer for the first time and heading off to high school. And yeah, it's it's, it's a bit much and it, it's, it's been a, it's been a kind of interesting time.

And as we've reached this new milestone in my son's life, I couldn't help but reflect in the context of this debate, what it was like in those early days of parenthood, because no matter how scary it is to see my son sort of becoming his own person, having his own views on things, nothing compares to that, that that first initial fear you have when you when you first become a parent and not knowing what to do and where to go when you're a little bit dazed, terrified, and wondering if you're ever going to sleep again.

And I think back to the services that I leant on. So the ante natal classes, the health visitor that came to my home, we've heard about how important that is and the stay in play, where I took my son and met other other parents who we could swap notes but remained lifelong friends and, you know, have helped raise my son as we as we've gone forward and created that that sense of community and village around him. So this network meant that I had the right diet during my pregnancy, that my son was surrounded by the things that helped him to learn.

And it meant that our new family had the support we needed to get the best possible start. We often talk in this place about policy not being rooted in ideology, but being rooted in evidence, focusing on what works and investing in that. Well, we know what works because the early because we know what works for the early years of a child's life, because the evidence is overwhelming that for the first 1001 days from pregnancy to a child's second birthday are among the most important in human development, as the government describes in its best Start for Life review, these are the critical 1001 days that are the foundation for lifelong emotional and physical well-being.

And as many have mentioned in this debate today, because research shows that during these critical days, a baby's brain develops at an extraordinary rate, that baby's brains are double in size during their first year, and that around 1 million connections are formed every second. These precious days have the potential to shape our health, our resilience, and who we are later to become. And that's why this bill matters so much, because it protects those critical days with legislation. It requires government to assess need, listen to parents and carers, ensure appropriate support services are available, and report transparently to Parliament on the impact of that support.

Because the reality is that for too many children growing up, they are without the services that they need. In those most critical moments. If you think about those neuropathways developing every second, every second then counts, doesn't it? Because in my constituency in Croydon East, around 30% of children are growing up in poverty, and Croydon's public health data suggests that girls growing up in the most affluent parts of our borough can expect to live around six years longer than the girls growing up, in least in the East affluent, affluent parts.

And for boys, that gap is nine years. And in a borough like Croydon, where a child's postcode can still have a profound impact on their health and life expectancy, we cannot afford to treat early intervention as an optional extra. It is not a luxury, it is the most effective tool. We have to break the cycles of disadvantage and create genuine equality of opportunity. That is why I cannot speak on this debate today without acknowledging the impact of Surestart. As many colleagues have mentioned, because Surestart was the most successful early intervention intervention programme this country has ever seen, independent research from the Institute of Fiscal Studies has shown that access to surestart improved educational outcomes for disadvantaged children, with benefits lasting way up to their GCSEs.

It found that the positive effects of Surestart came with significant financial benefits, including reduced costs for government services at later stages in life and increased tax revenue from higher earnings. In fact, it estimated that at its peak, Surestart generated over £2 for every £1 of government spending. Yet despite this evidence, funding for Sure Start fell by more than two thirds between 2010 and 2022 and more than more than over a thousand children's centres closed across England. And I wholeheartedly welcome this government's commitment to giving every child the best possible start in life for its investment in Best Start Family Hubs and the steps it's taken to eliminate child poverty by lifting the two child benefit cap.

But if history can teach us anything, it is that priorities change, spending changes and even governments change. And when support at this critical time is scaled back, it is the most vulnerable who suffer. Just think about where we would be if we'd kept that investment in those surestart centres. Absolutely. If they had not closed. Yeah. If families, regardless of their shape, size or background, had continued to have the support and investment that they needed. Yeah. How much better off would we be? Yeah.

So it is important that we don't make the same mistakes. This bill means that for the first time, we legally give the first 1000 days the recognition, protection and visibility that they deserve. We set out that no matter who, no matter what or who is in charge, we choose to invest in our children. Yeah. Because if we are serious about reducing inequality, improving mental health and physical health, strengthening families, and giving every child the best possible start, then we must act when it matters the most at the very beginning.

So I welcome this bill and I provide my full support for it. And I'm so proud to today.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Thank you. Jess Brown-Fuller thank. You, Madam Deputy Speaker. And I refer members to my

**** Possible New Speaker ****

And I refer members to my register of interests as the chair of the all party parliamentary Group on Infant Feeding and Inequalities, and I also sit on the Inequalities, and I also sit on the advisory board for the thousand and one Critical Days Foundation. I'd like to start by thanking the hon. like to start by thanking the hon. Member for New Forest West for bringing this bill to the House and giving us an opportunity to all giving us an opportunity to all stand up and wax lyrical about babies.

We get less emails from babies than other constituents that we represent in this place, which is why it's so important that those that have chosen to be here today are taking the opportunity for speak to, to speak up for the voiceless. And I will take this
12:21
Jess Brown-Fuller Portrait Jess Brown-Fuller MP (Chichester, Liberal Democrat)
-
-
opportunity to welcome a new baby into my family. I have a new nephew, into my family. I have a new nephew, my first nephew, his name is Raven, and he was born eight days ago, and he's been born with a thick shock he's been born with a thick shock of jet black hair as well, so he clearly knew what his name was going to be. And he's wonderful and going to be. And he's wonderful and we all love him dearly already, including my two children who are delighted to have a cousin to steer delighted to have a cousin to steer down the wrong path.

And as the thousand and one Critical Days campaign has made absolutely clear through its campaigning and its work on this bill, a baby's development until the age of two is vital, and failing to provide adequate support for parents and babies at this time can leave individuals and families chasing their tails in the future, trying to make up for issues that occurred during this crucial period. Investment in infants, health and care pays dividends for society, improving health and educational outcomes and reducing inequality.

And it's for this reason I absolutely support what this bill is trying to achieve, which puts the support in the early years on a statutory footing and also ensures a health check of early years support by the Secretary of State at regular intervals. And there's an old adage, as was said by the chair of the Education Select Committee, it takes a village. But if you are a new parent who cannot access services in your local area, how are you meant to now find your village? I was very lucky when I had my children.

Now first one nearly 12 years ago to find my village, I attended a weekly breastfeeding support group. It was called milk, where we could talk freely and openly about the challenges, understand why our baby's poo was a funny colour, get advice about combination feeding or introducing solids or returning to work. We also learn at that group about developmental leaps, which I don't remember a midwife or a health visitor ever telling me about when my child was born, and I couldn't understand why I put to bed a lovely, calm child.

And then a demon woke up and was just so hard to soothe for 3 or 4 days. And it's not until I went to that group and the parents who were maybe a month ahead of me or two months ahead of me, were going, are you sure they're not having a developmental leap? It could be that they're learning new things, and that's why they're struggling to sleep, or they're unregulated, or their pattern has moved around. It was so helpful. There was an area for the older children to play.

We all enjoyed a cup of tea, as was very clearly said by the hon. Member for Sherwood Forest in her contribution. We weighed our babies and we talked about the various methods we'd all adopted to remember what side we'd lost, fed our baby on, and the women I met at that group are still my friends today and have made my life as a mother better, more supported and just brighter. We also went to a baby movers group every Friday morning where we shook our baby bags and and threw scarves over our children and sang songs that still just randomly appear in my head

**** Possible New Speaker ****

when I can't sleep at 11:00 at night. Happily give way. Thank you. I really appreciate

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Thank you. I really appreciate the hon. Lady for giving way. And she had a fantastic Gill German she had a fantastic Gill German debate nearly a year ago on breastfeeding support, and my wife and I are now 384 days into having and I are now 384 days into having our first our first child and breastfeeding support. We have an organisation in Nick Smith called organisation in Nick Smith called Bosom Buddies, Fantastic Lady called Jodie Wilkinson, who runs it, and she does it for free and she's constantly trying to get funding.

And I remember a point that the hon. Lady raised around this being a postcode lottery. So would she agree with me that as this bill develops and goes through, that, the government really needs to look at supporting those organisations because it's given so much support to my wife, the hon. Lady and so many women around the country.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention and for supporting that adjournment debate that we had that adjournment debate that we had over a year ago. And every community should have a Jodie. Mine community should have a Jodie. Mine was a duly, and she was constantly chasing funding to keep milk alive. that I had relied on so heavily was now being run out of a broom cupboard, and it was by appointment only. And you couldn't take your older children along, and the whole thing had just crumbled.

And so I feared for the parents that were coming after me, who weren't able to then find their village. Six months after my daughter was born, the pandemic hit her 12 month health visitor review was done on Zoom, and my daughter wasn't even in the room with me and the baby movers classes that I'd loved so much with my son ceased to exist, so I ended up running them on Facebook lives, and I would message everybody at 10:00 and say, I'm going to go live in half an hour, and we're all going to shake our beanbag together in our own lounges.

The local children and family centre in Chichester never reopened in the same way after the pandemic, and the Children and Family centre in Selsey, which is a coastal community in my constituency, is now permanently closed and the clearest example of the effectiveness of early support and intervention, as cited by many hon. Members across the House today, was Surestart, which was described in a study by the Institute for Fiscal Studies last May as having had an overwhelmingly positive effect, with the benefit estimated to be over £2 in societal value for every £1 spent.

But when budgets were tightened during austerity, it was services like Surestart that were cut to the bone. And that is why the provisions in this bill are so important, because they add statutory foundations, assessments and accountability to protect infant support services for the future, and it should allow Parliament to recognise the importance of services like feeding support services to ensure that provision for them is maintained and that services are improved. And the impact of this is stark, especially around the issue of infant feeding through the work of the Infant feeding and Inequalities APPG.

Last year I had the privilege of hosting the World Breastfeeding Trends Initiative in Parliament, who launched their 2004 report, which was looking at breastfeeding in the UK against metrics measuring other countries. And the key takeaway from the report is that the UK has some of the lowest breastfeeding rates in the world. Importantly, however, the data also shows that the majority of mothers do set out to breastfeed. Despite this, by 6 to 8 weeks, around 70% of babies in the UK receive some formula, and by six months, only 1% of babies are exclusively breastfed.

And the majority of those who stop breastfeeding early wanted to breastfeed for longer, but did not receive the help they needed to resolve the problems. And in my constituency of Chichester, most of the support, as cited by the hon. Gentleman, is run on a voluntary basis. There's a brilliant support group now that runs out of the Graylingwell Chapel, which is run by retired midwives who give up their time. They run the group for free, and I know what a lifeline that has been for so many mothers, but at the point where they choose not to do that anymore, that service disappears because it's not on a statutory footing.

And many of the midwives in my local maternity unit at Saint Richards run support groups in their spare time, on their days off, I'll happily give way to the hon. Lady.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank the hon. Member for giving way. I think. Breastfeeding is one of those things that actually why this bill things that actually why this bill is so important, because it's about before birth as well as those first two years. And I think when you look at the data, actually the look at the data, actually the trigger point of people not taking forward breastfeeding is about 16 hours after birth. So if you're hours after birth. So if you're giving that support before you have your baby and you know where you can go straight away, that will can go straight away, that will give you confidence to breastfeed for longer.

Does the hon. Friend agree that we actually have to make sure that this bill is pre and post labour?

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention, and it is very much my opinion that we all, as mothers, my opinion that we all, as mothers, should have the right to choose how we want to feed our babies, and that choice should be based on information. And so if parents information. And so if parents aren't given the information that they need before making those choices, then they don't have a

**** Possible New Speaker ****

choice that's been taken away from them. I'll happily give way to the hon. Lady. I thank the Member for giving

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank the Member for giving way. And just on the point of information, I think anyone who has been a new mother will understand for some some some women breastfeeding is very easy. For some women it is not. Does she agree with me, though, that the lack of sort of Research into what the difference between one easy breast feeding experiences and a harder one is actually not particularly good. And I think when you're struggling, mother, and all you want to do is feed your baby because you're told you need to feed your baby, and there's a chart.

If they get below that chart, then you're not doing a good, perhaps more investment needs to go go into, in, in research into how we can make it easier for mothers to breastfeed and so they can have those informed, supported choices as they go forward.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention. And she's absolutely right that every just like every pregnancy is different, every breastfeeding journey is different. And we don't want to put mothers in And we don't want to put mothers in a position where all they've got is Google at their fingertips at 2:00 in the morning, when the baby is devastated and won't feed, and they're worried that they're dehydrated. And we do have the National Breastfeeding Helpline, National Breastfeeding Helpline, which is a 24 over seven service, which is funded by the Department of Health and Social Care.

That is a lifeline for so many mothers. 33,000 mothers call that helpline every I think it's every month. It's such an important resource, but also it's helpful to have that peer support because if you're in a room with a, with, with other mothers and they're saying, actually, I experienced mastitis or I experienced thrush, this is what I did to get past that, keep going and see, you know, come back next week and see if things are better. That support can mean so much to a mother who feels like they're on their own in that in that journey, Lady.



**** Possible New Speaker ****

Thank the hon. Member for giving way to an incredibly generous with their time, and I was delighted to contribute to her debate on infant feeding, and I thank her for her leadership on this. And when we talk about information available to talk about information available to people and advice, does she agree with me that something that can absolutely make the difference is the right person at the right time? the right person at the right time? And without giving too much of a speech right now, I'll include it in when I get to speak.

The difference of your midwife coming difference of your midwife coming in just at the moment where you were prepared to give up can sometimes result in your daughter acquiring the middle name of that midwife as well. Just like the Member for Dulwich and West Norwood was talking about.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank the hon. Lady for her contribution, and she also raises a really important point, which is really important point, which is that infant feeding is not taught generically across medical generically across medical professions. So a lot of mothers may present at their GP surgery, for example, if they're having challenges, their GP is probably challenges, their GP is probably not the best place person to inform them on how they can best be supported on their infant feeding supported on their infant feeding journey, whatever that looks like.

But those that are specialists, like the midwives, like most health visitors, it means that you're being supported and asking the right questions and then getting the right answer. So she's absolutely right for babies. Breastfeeding strengthens the immune system and significantly reduces the risk of infections, obesity, asthma, and long term conditions such as type two diabetes. I pay tribute to her Grace, the Duchess of Richmond, for convening a Goodwood Health summit, which specifically looked at the infant gut microbiome and how important the microbiome of the stomach is in the formative days, both in pregnancy and in the first few critical weeks of life, and her continued advocacy in that space.

And for mothers, breastfeeding lowers the risk of breast and ovarian cancers, cardiovascular disease, and also supports post postnatal mental health. Providing support for breastfeeding mothers can pay for itself further down the line by improving the health of both babies and mothers. And currently in the UK, there is no national infant feeding strategy, no time bound action plan, multisectoral infant feeding committee or overall national coordinator and there is little to no mention of infant feeding in health professional training and no coordinated strategy for infant feeding in emergency situations either.

So I hope that this bill can provide the foundation for the support to return to levels that we have seen in the past and address the gaps that have always existed, because babies and their parents deserve better. And I look forward to supporting the bill through its passage in the House, including on

**** Possible New Speaker ****

the bill committee. Thank you. Laura Kyrke-Smith. The Infant Parents and Carers

**** Possible New Speaker ****

The Infant Parents and Carers bill before us is such an important one and I am very pleased to support it and I pay tribute. He's support it and I pay tribute. He's not in his place, but I pay tribute to the right hon. Member for New Forest West for bringing it forward. Forest West for bringing it forward. What a credit it will be to him if this bill passes. I also know that we wouldn't be here without the we wouldn't be here without the work of Dame Andrea Leadsom and all the team at the 1001 Critical Days Foundation, so I want to put on record my thanks and appreciation to them too.

I also have to take this opportunity to wish the most
12:34
Laura Kyrke-Smith Portrait Laura Kyrke-Smith MP (Aylesbury, Labour)
-
-
important baby in my life and my little niece, Hallie, a very happy little niece, Hallie, a very happy first birthday that's coming up next week. This bill does the vital next week. This bill does the vital work of putting into law the requirement to ensure that infants, parents, carers and prospective parents receive the support that parents receive the support that they deserve at this vital start, this vital time in life, the start of a baby's life. We have heard many examples of how this would be transformative for the babies at the heart of this bill and their families, and rightly so, because the evidence is so compelling that the care that a baby receives in those first 1001 days from pregnancy to age two, when those vital neural connections are forming in their brain, can affect their life chances in so many ways, from education to health to earnings potential, my contribution today will focus not on the babies themselves, but on their parents and carers, and specifically on pregnant and new mums and their partners and the mental health challenges that they can face at this time of life, and how this bill, I believe, will really improve the support available to them too.

But the two are, of course connected because we cannot separate a baby's well-being from the well-being of those caring for them. And when parents are struggling with their mental health, the effects can be felt throughout the family as really compelling evidence from the Maternal Mental Health Alliance and others has shown, perinatal mental illness is associated with increased risk of poor emotional, intellectual, social and physical development in children, and it can disrupt that attachment and bonding. And during this period, when those secure relationships are laying the foundations for a child's future health and well-being.

But when parents and carers are supported, and when babies experience that secure attachment as a result, babies go on to to thrive. Perinatal mental health is an issue close to my heart, as I've spoken about in this chamber before, I lost my close friend Sophie to suicide after the birth of her third daughter, when her little girl was just ten weeks old. And I've introduced my my own bill and to stop more people suffering in the way that she did by requiring my bill, would require that every pregnant and new mum has a mental health check in, and I'm continuing to push this forward.

But no matter how many times I speak about it, the sadness and the shock of losing Sophie doesn't lessen because she struggled more than anyone should have to at that time of life, and too many people are still struggling in the way that that she did. For so many families, this is a time of excitement and joy, and I'm so glad when that's the case. But for too many others, it's a time that can be marked by anxiety and depression and trauma and isolation, and in some cases, severe mental illness.

And across the UK, it's about 1 in 4 women who will experience a mental health challenge during that time. That means that in every community, in every constituency represented in this House, families are living with those realities of perinatal mental illness. And this can include post-natal depression, anxiety disorders, post-traumatic stress disorder and obsessive compulsive disorder. And then in some cases, these severe illnesses such as postpartum psychosis, these challenges can affect first time parents, but they can also affect experienced parents.

For Sophie, it was her third time as a new mum and they can come quite unexpectedly, including for those with no history of severe mental illness. We've spoken about how babies brains are forming in those first 1001 days, but a lot is happening for mum at that point too. There's a brilliant book by Lucy Jones called My Presence, which I would really recommend everyone read, but but it sets out those really profound hormonal and neural and cognitive changes that occur during during motherhood.

And of course, that has consequences for people's sense of identity and self, much in the same way as happens to, to teenagers during adolescence. And there's been some really brilliant advocates for, for this idea of essence, people like Maggie Gordon Walker, who I just want to acknowledge today and to. But when all of this becomes challenging for mental health, as it did for Sophie, it can have these incredibly serious consequences. There's a great report the embrace UK Saving Lives Improving Mothers Care report, which shows that suicide remains the leading cause of death among women between six weeks and a year after birth.

And that's a life loss. But it's also a it's a family broken. And that is the shocking and the sobering reality of families not getting the recognition and understanding and support that they need at this time. And that obviously has consequences not just for the people at the heart of it, but but way beyond that for, for the economy and for society, the long term cost of those untreated perinatal mental health problems is estimated to be about £8.1 billion every year.

That's according to the London School of Economics, and significantly, about three quarters of that cost 72% arises from the long term impact on the children, on their ability to learn and to earn and to be healthy and to care for themselves later in life. So correcting all of this has to start with raising awareness, because despite a lot of great advocacy and awareness raising work from so many organisations like the Maternal Mental Health Alliance, like Joe Cruz at delivering better the Hearts and Minds partnership, we still recognise and understand perinatal mental health really poorly, and as a result, people do continue to suffer in silence.

They're afraid of being judged. They fear that admitting they're struggling could somehow be seen as a failure, or they might recognise that something isn't right, but they simply don't know where to turn for help. But awareness alone isn't enough. And that's where this bill that we are debating comes in, because it is about that support too. So I just wanted to touch on four ways briefly in which I think this bill could make a real difference. The first is this principle behind it, as other members have spoken about, the idea that everyone in England, regardless of who you are, where you're from, what your background is, you are all equally deserving of support at this time in life, in the eyes of the law.

Because the reality is today that not all pregnant and new mums get that same support at all. And the evidence shows that mums from black and minority ethnic communities face much poorer outcomes and greater barriers to accessing care in the first place. Younger mothers or families in poverty and deprivation, and those living with the effects of of domestic abuse or other past trauma. They will encounter additional obstacles and and worse outcomes. And that is simply not acceptable. But this bill and the aim of this bill is that every family would then be able to access that high quality support.

And it's a really important principle, and one that's been supported by many experts, including the Royal College of Midwives and the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists. The second really important, important point about this bill, I think, is that the period, that particular period that it focuses on, because for someone struggling with their mental health, it is so vital that the support kicks in at the very early stages of this 1001 days. Too often, as others have have said, the systems kick in when people are at crisis point, but actually for support to be effective, it does have to kick in early.

It's about identifying that vulnerability very early, building those trusted relationships with with, with midwives and health visitors, providing care, providing them that continuity of care and ensuring that the mums feel seen and heard and supported long before those those difficulties start to become overwhelming, with the possibility to be referred onto the specialist services as well if necessary. And we know that once the baby gets to to age two, it can it can be too late. They've already formed their early understanding of the world, and the family have already had to get through that really tough first, first phase.

So that time period is critical. And third, I think it's absolutely right that the bill extends the statutory support in that very wide ranging way across infants, parents, parents and carers. It's it's not enough just to focus on one, one, one member or one part of the family. And again, talking from a mental health point of view, I've obviously focussed my words on pregnant and new mums, but it is equally vital to consider the needs of of fathers and partners and other carers.

At that time there was a very troubling study from Wales. The. The Samaritans did a study in Wales recently which showed for the first time in that evidence based way, the really high rates of suicide among new dads as well. And the the many barriers to support that, that they face. And that's something that should really compel us to action. And there are good examples out there of what good support to dads can look like. I was talking to the mental health midwives at my local hospital, Stoke Mandeville Hospital in Aylesbury, where they use something called the Dad Pad app and book that comes alongside it, and it's just got really easy, accessible information and advice in there on on how dads can can help, look after themselves and also give their child the best start in life.

So that advice is out there. It's good, but it's not routinely available. And I really see the potential of a bill like this to make sure that everyone who, who, who needs that guidance can access it. And fourth, I think it's right that the nature of the support defined in this bill is very broadly defined. And for the for the government, obviously, to to work further on. But it's this model of broad, cross-cutting, joined up support that's embedded in the government's Best Start Family Hubs, a programme that I'm so proud that the government is has introduced and is driving forward, and it's one that's already benefiting my constituents.

We've got the Elmhurst Family Hub opening this this month, but with those mental health teams, infant support, feeding, infant feeding support teams, send support teams, maternity care, primary care, health visitors and the voluntary sector as well, all co-located in one place. Families will be able to access that joined up support that they they need, whatever that might be. And it's also talking about the voluntary sector, such an important opportunity for the voluntary sector to dock in with other services on on offer from the the local authority and the NHS.

And I think they often are overlooked in these debates. But if we didn't have such brilliant, active and voluntary and community organisations across our constituents, there would be a lot more women and families falling between the cracks at this time. We've got the brilliant pandas organisation.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Thank you very much for a compelling speech, for sharing as much about our own personal story. much about our own personal story. Thank you for that. As a member of the Public Accounts Committee, one of the things that we get quite often is a sense that all of this often is a sense that all of this great operational learning is going on within communities, but that operational learning doesn't always turn into strategic learning. Back turn into strategic learning. Back at Parliament, part of the bill is talking about a need to bring back a report every year.

But if the report comes back and no one reads report comes back and no one reads it, we cannot learn how we can do better. Does she agree with me that learning the lessons, the great lessons that are going on in our communities is important for us to do, and that we should not lose sight of that in this bill. We should learn from the lessons that are going on in the communities at our level to help do what we can do

**** Possible New Speaker ****

here. I do agree that my hon. Friend makes a really important point. I think we do see these pockets of think we do see these pockets of good practice across the country, and too often those aren't flagged up through the system. Certainly, we in this House don't become aware we in this House don't become aware of those, but I do see part of the potential of this, this bill being that through those reporting that through those reporting mechanisms, we get a better sense of what works and what doesn't, and the potential to to roll that out the potential to to roll that out and scale it, scale it up.

And, and I want to pay tribute. There's a brilliant group in my constituency, pandas, which is a, a tea and coffee and toys for the kids, but really a group, a space, a supportive space and a group for, for new mums to go and meet other mums who may also be struggling. And I know there's organisations like that across the country, mothers for mothers in in Bristol do fantastic work. Along those lines. I went to a wonderful session by Breathe Melodies who work at work across London, but they they sort of harness the power of community and singing to, to bring mums and dads now together and to provide that support and support in mind.

There's another group that's more about getting people out and walking, but also talking, talking and doing that. So there's these fantastic voluntary groups. And I think we need to be thinking about those being plugged in to the to the support that would be provided through this bill. I'll just say final couple of things to conclude. But as others have said powerfully, a baby can't tell us when they're struggling. Baby can't tell us when their family is struggling. They can't navigate a really complex and fragmented healthcare system or advocate for improved services themselves.

A baby relies on us as as legislators to ensure that that support exists. And that's why this bill is so important. And my ask really, as we consider this this this legislation going forward, is just to make sure that we recognise that supporting perinatal mental health and more broadly, the mental health of parents and carers is so fundamental to that ambition and such a key determinant of whether the infants and parents and carers at the heart of this bill do go on to thrive.

Thank you.
12:48
Iqbal Mohamed Portrait Iqbal Mohamed MP (Dewsbury and Batley, Independent)
-
-
Iqbal Mohamed thank you, Madam >> Iqbal Mohamed thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. The House will agree with me when I say that we agree with me when I say that we believe that all children should be born equal, but the reason why we born equal, but the reason why we are here today is that we also know that in the fifth or the sixth richest country in this world, the children born in this country, not all are born equal.

So, Madam Deputy Speaker, I'm absolutely delighted to be able to speak in support of the infants, Parents and Carers Bill today, and I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for North New Forest West on bringing it before the House. Some would say he has been very lucky to be drawn in the first ballot, but as a person of faith, I believe it is divine intervention and Almighty God has bestowed a responsibility on this House to now support our children, the children, the parents and our carers and our country the way they have a right to be supported and deserve to be supported.

The central idea behind this legislation is simple, yet a radical one. Every child deserves the best start in life, regardless of their postcode, their family's income or their ethnicity. We have heard eloquently from the right Honourable and hon. Members from across the House that the first 1001 days are amongst the most important in all of human development. They shape physical health, emotional well-being, educational attainment and life chances for decades to come. Yet too often support during those crucial early years is fragmented, inconsistent, and dependent on a family's individual circumstances or where they live.

The bill rightfully seeks to address this injustice by ensuring needs are assessed, and timely support is provided. It recognises that giving children the best start in life cannot be the responsibility of any single department. Improving outcomes for babies and families requires health, education and local services to work together, and I welcome the bill's emphasis on a greater coordination and accountability. And before I move on to talking about my constituency and focus on some of the challenges that they face, I just want to pick up the point about breastfeeding.

Absolutely. It's the right of the mother to choose, decide, and sometimes it may not even be possible for her for that mother to breastfeed. But it is really, really important that breast milk, the substitute breast milk is not commercialised, is not sold for immense profit in this country or elsewhere. Parents, and especially those of low income households, struggle to make ends meet as it is. And then you have a mother who, for whatever reason, medically or other, is unable to breastfeed.

Their child is then dependent on substitute breast milk, and that can't suddenly become the cost that unravels the household, not just for the child, but for everybody

**** Possible New Speaker ****

living in it. And I will give way. I thank my hon. Friend for

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank my hon. Friend for giving way and for raising a very important point, which is that the the formula industry is a the formula industry is a commercial industry. Breast milk, by its very nature is free and therefore doesn't have the backing therefore doesn't have the backing of large scale corporations to advertise it widely. Does he agree, then, that the government should then, that the government should take heed to the Competition and Markets Authority, report into the formula milk industry and take on their recommendations, including regulation, price controls of of formula milk?

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank my hon. Friend for intervention. I wholeheartedly agree with the point that she makes, agree with the point that she makes, and also it's really important for parents, mothers, families to know parents, mothers, families to know that that government policy are free from commercial influences, not just in this space, but in all not just in this space, but in all the spaces that impact our citizens as a as an engineer and as a as a as an engineer and as a regulatory compliance expert in the pharmaceutical industry.

I also believe that the marketing of breast milk and the formulation of breast milk needs to be better regulated. The MHRA should have responsibility to regulate the nutritional content and also the marketing claims of substitute breast milk producers. And that is a really important measure that the government could introduce to ensure consistency of quality and of nutrients for babies that need to be fed on breast milk. So moving on, as a member of for Dewsbury and Batley, I do want to focus my contributions today, particularly on the matter of health inequality in my constituency.

We are proud of our diverse communities, but we cannot ignore the fact that outcomes for mothers and babies are not experienced equally. A recent Healthwatch West Yorkshire report highlights the reality facing many children and families across our region. Families repeatedly identified poverty, poor housing, long waiting times, barriers to healthcare access and the cost of staying healthy as factors profoundly affecting young children's health and wellbeing. Poverty and its attendant effects mean that families struggle to maintain healthy living environments for their children through no fault of their own, whether it is through mouldy housing or the lack of a nutritious, nutritious, nutritious diet.

Health outcomes depend on income and place. The result is that infant mortality rates in Yorkshire and Humber are 5.1 per 1000 live births, against a national average of 3.9. This is a postcode lottery and one that we must do all we can to eradicate. Yet these inequalities are also compounded by ethnic disparities. Nationally, babies of black ethnicity continue to be more than twice as likely to be stillborn as babies of white ethnicity in 2026. That is a scandal, and it is precisely why legislation focussed on the early years matters.

The research conducted, the reports published over decades, have not led to meaningful positive intervention to reduce the infant mortality in ethnic minorities and black families, and this is a real opportunity to address that inequality. We know, too, that children from ethnic minority backgrounds and deprived communities often face additional barriers in accessing health care and support. The Healthwatch report I previously cited found that cultural and language barriers can make it harder for some families to navigate services, while stigma around receiving support in some communities can prevent parents from getting help when they most urgently need it, these statistics and findings should remind us that improving services is not simply an administrative exercise.

It is fundamentally a matter of fairness. That is why I believe one of the strengths of this bill is in its potential to shine a light on where support is working and where it is falling short. The annual report presented to Parliament on the state of services and the outcomes and the and the changes to outcomes since the previous year is extremely important, but that must be then a catalyst and be used to continue to address the inequalities that still remain at the end of each year as it progresses.

As the bill progresses, I hope it will focus not only on the availability of services, but on whether outcomes are actually improving for children from disadvantaged and ethnic minority backgrounds, because when support is available early, far greater cost to children, public services and society can be avoided later. I would like before I conclude, I would like to. Take this opportunity to celebrate the 150th anniversary of Dewsbury Hospital and recognised not only the institution, but the generations of dedicated staff who have served our communities with skill, compassion, dedication and commitment.

I pay tribute and extend my deepest gratitude to the doctors, nurses, midwives, porters, healthcare assistants, cleaners, administrators, technicians, volunteers and countless others who have cared for patients through times of joy, crisis and profound change. Madam Deputy Speaker, I would like to also extend by recognising the incredible work of health visitors, midwives and midwives and family support workers and all of the healthcare health professionals across West Yorkshire and the whole country. They often provide the early intervention that transforms the course of a child's life.

Just a few months ago, I visited the re-opened Bronte Birth Centre in my constituency of Dewsbury and Batley at Dewsbury Hospital, which was closed for two years because of staff shortages. They are doing absolutely fantastic work and the facility is world class and I pay tribute to the government who funded, helped implement and fund the facilities and the staff who run it day to day. I will give way.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Ian Roome thank. You very much for giving way. My local maternity unit in North Devon local maternity unit in North Devon is closed and is causing massive heartache to many, many mothers heartache to many, many mothers living in a rural area, some having to turn around midway to hospital to turn around midway to hospital to get to the A&E department at North Devon District Hospital. It's North Devon District Hospital. It's a national problem. A shortage of OBS and Gynae consultants.

Midwives were OK, but OBS and Gynae were not. Do you think that it creates that inequality between rural and urban

**** Possible New Speaker ****

areas? And I think the government needs to address that. Thank you.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Thank you. I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. I completely agree intervention. I completely agree that services must be the same quality, the same standard, with quality, the same standard, with the same resources as the demand in areas require, whether it's rural, urban or city centres. I think urban or city centres. I think there should not be a postcode lottery for the quality of care that expectant mothers or new mothers receive anywhere in our country, but these amazing individuals, healthcare workers, midwives and obstetricians, they are working under immense pressure as it is our entire health system.

We have seen a significant reduction in the health visiting workforce over recent years, while demand has continued to grow. If we are serious about giving this bill meaning beyond good intention, then the resources required to deliver it must follow. Due to the funding reduction and the necessary cuts to to balance the books we now face in my in Kirklees and in my area, these health visitors that before would have a manageable caseload. A number of families that they could visit at the appropriate frequency and provide the necessary support.

There are reports that individuals are now faced with mountains of casework almost up to a thousand families per caseworker or healthcare professional. Clearly, that is not sustainable and will never, ever deliver the support that these families needs. So in conclusion, Madam Deputy Speaker, I am absolutely honoured and delighted to support the infants, Parents and Carers Bill. It will not solve every challenge facing families with young children, nor should we pretend that this legislation can address the root causes of poverty, poor housing or widening inequality.

But it is a vital step towards ensuring that babies and their families are visible in public policy, and that access to support becomes a consistent expectation, rather than the roll of a dice. Every child only gets one start in life. Our responsibility in this House is is to ensure that that start is as fair, safe and healthy as possible, and we must act in the period where intervention can have the greatest impact. This is not simply a maternity issue.

It is a health issue, a social issue, social justice issue and an education issue. And I fully support this bill.
13:02
13:03
Connor Rand Portrait Mr Connor Rand MP (Altrincham and Sale West, Labour)
-
-
commend the hon. Member for New Forest West for introducing it, and if he might permit me to say so, he if he might permit me to say so, he did, with his characteristic flair and passion. And whilst I'm in no way able to match his flair, I way able to match his flair, I share his passion for improving the support available to babies, parents and carers, particularly during those first two years of a during those first two years of a child's life.

Those 1001 days are a golden opportunity. If we get the support right, the benefits will last a lifetime. If we get it wrong, so do the costs. And Madam Deputy Speaker, there are three points I want to make in support of the bill. Firstly, it sets us on the path to support every child and every parent, whoever they are and wherever they are. Secondly, and most importantly, when this level of support isn't there, as is the case now, the vacuum it creates puts babies and their parents at serious risk.

And thirdly, by building better support during those first 1001 days, we are investing in the essential infrastructure needed to make this country a fairer, stronger and more prosperous place. Madam Deputy Speaker, like many, I approach this bill from the perspective of being a parent. One of the greatest joys that life has given me. I remember the first year of my son's life and the happiness those precious early moments brought myself and my partner Catherine. But I also remember distinctly the less precious moments, the daily battle that every new parent has with their anxieties.

Why are they crying? Why aren't they sleeping? AM I doing something wrong? These questions swirl around our heads when we are sleep deprived, emotionally drained, and totally unsure of ourselves. It is a time when we are at our most vulnerable and when we need help. And when, as the hon. Member for New Forest West said, we need parents to have somewhere to turn from perinatal to neonatal care. That help must be universal, it must be statutory, and it must be something on which the government is held to account on delivering which.

This bill sets us on the path to doing so. It's universal in that it requires the government to assess the needs of all babies, parents and carers. It is statutory and that it gives a legal footing to the support provided, and it is something to which the government can be rightly held to account. It requires Ministers to report annually on the support they are providing and the difference it is making. Without universal, statutory and accountable support, a vacuum is created and this vacuum is dangerous because in the gaps caused by the dismantling of services like Sure Start and health visitors, opportunists who are not fit to care for children and provide advice have thrived.

And I'm talking most prominently here about the infant sleep industry, the Wild West, where literally anyone can pose as an expert and give parents advice that puts their child life at risk. Sometimes these people call themselves nannies, sometimes maternity nurses, sometimes sleep trainers. They can provide care in the home, or they can share their advice to vast audiences on social media. But in all cases, there is no requirement for them to have any medical training or qualifications. There is no legal accountability for the advice they give and no recognised standard for the support they provide.

Madam Deputy Speaker, the reason I believe this is so dangerous is because, as many members are aware of what happened in my constituency where two years ago, a four month old died after being placed into an unsafe sleeping position on the advice of a maternity nurse who had no medical qualifications and for which there was no criminal recourse. An unimaginable tragedy, but one I fear is bound to repeat itself unless action is taken. And to further illustrate this point, in May, the BBC used undercover filming to expose two prominent individuals in the infant sleep industry who were openly giving advice to parents on safe sleep that could have resulted in the death of their children.

These figures have sold popular books on raising children, and have thousands and thousands of followers online. And the reason that these cowboys have such reach cannot be separated from the dismantling of Sure Start over the last decade and the fact that in that decade, the number of health visitors has halved in the absence of services that used to be provided by the state. And we've heard a lot in this debate from both sides of the House on the importance of in-person support.

Vulnerable parents have understandably looked elsewhere for that support. Madam Deputy Speaker, this bill is a is an important step towards rebuilding these services and giving them statutory protection both now and in the future. And backing this effort isn't just a moral imperative, it is an economic and social one too, because the services that support babies and their parents are essential national infrastructure, just as important as any other. Investing in babies and young people reaps long term rewards, and in setting solid foundations for lifelong health, brain development, and emotional well-being, we create a better future for the individual and the society they live in.

And as the Royal Foundation has said, improved support for infants and the adults around them could add £45 billion to the UK economy each year. Now, of course, I'll give way to my hon. Friend.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank him for giving way. You mentioned the term infrastructure. Would he agree with me that there's a case for redefining the term a case for redefining the term infrastructure to include early years provision? When we're looking at new housing developments for

**** Possible New Speaker ****

families? Yes, I absolutely would agree with my hon. Friend that we should with my hon. Friend that we should be thinking about the support provided to babies and parents in that way as an important component of national infrastructure. Indeed, just as important as any other, reducing, reducing the huge costs associated with poor mental health, reliance on the care system and future criminal behaviour shows how our economy can benefit from increasing the support provided to parents and the adults around them, by creating the conditions that allow parents and carers to stay in work, but too often investing in babies and their parents in those vital early years has been an opportunity that has failed to be grasped.

The reason why is that for too long it's been treated as an afterthought, not a necessity, and that this bill starts us on the path of changing that. A path where every baby, parent and carer has the help they need to be the best they can be. A path where the vacuum in support that exposes us to tragedy is filled by the services that the state should always and provide, and a path where this support and these services pay for themselves by making us a stronger, fairer and more prosperous country.

And that's why I'm proud to support this bill.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Yes.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Steve Yemm thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker and first of all, I would like to congratulate the right hon. Member for New Forest right hon. Member for New Forest West on securing first place in the ballot and I think, more importantly, on choosing to use
13:11
Steve Yemm Portrait Steve Yemm MP (Mansfield, Labour)
-
-
importantly, on choosing to use that valuable opportunity to introduce this bill. There are many, many subjects that a member fortunate enough to come first in the ballot might choose. The right hon. Gentleman has chosen one that's both profoundly important and too often, I think, absent from our political debate, that is the health and development of babies, the well-being of their parents and carers, and the support available to families during pregnancy and the first two years of a child's life.

And that's why I am so pleased to support the bill today. I do so not only as the member of Parliament for Mansfield, but as a father and a grandfather. And when I think about the matters before us today, I think about my own grandchildren, Samuel, Joseph, Rosa and Martha, and indeed those grandchildren in our family who are yet to be born. I think about the families into which they were born, the love and care that surround them, and the extraordinary speed that I have seen them begin to develop a personality, to form relationships and to make sense of the world.

Inevitably, that makes this debate personal. But it should be personal for all of us, of course, because every member of this House represents thousands of families who want exactly the same thing for their children and grandchildren, for them to be safe, healthy, loved. Given the best possible start in life. And so the well-being of babies should not be a party. Political matter babies, as many members have already alluded to, babies did not comment on my Facebook post or attempt to come to my surgery.

And yet, the decisions that we take in this House shape the circumstances in which those children begin their lives. And that is why this bill matters. And it's so important. The 1001 days between conception and a child's second birthday are not simply a preliminary period before a more important business of education begins. They are the period. It is the period in which the foundation of a child's physical health, emotional security, ability to form relationships, develop language, develop future capacity to learn, are all being laid and a child does not suddenly acquire life chances when they first walk through the school gates.

By that point, a great deal has already happened. Of course, we should never suggest that a course, the course of a child's life has been irreversibly decided before the age of two. Of course, children are resilient. Families overcome extraordinary difficulty, and good schools, good public services and strong communities can transform lives. But we should recognise what the evidence and the daily experience of families tells us. Early relationships, responsive care, good nutrition, physical safety, the emotional well-being of parents all matter enormously.

And when a family needs help, the earlier that help is available, the more effective it is likely to be. And we talk a great deal in this place about prevention. We talk about preventing ill health, family breakdown, children falling behind at school, but prevention will require us to act, I think, of course, before difficulty becomes that crisis at it, invest political political attention in people whose needs are not always visible or vocal. And I think that is the central strength of this bill.

It doesn't attempt to invent an entirely new structure or prescribe from Westminster how every service in every community should operate. Instead, it seeks to place a stronger and more enduring statutory foundation beneath the support that families already need and in some places, receive already. So supporting families does not mean replacing them. Parents are the first and most important people in a child's life. Our role and the role of government is not to take over the ordinary work of raising children, but it's to create all of those conditions in which families can fulfil those responsibilities.

And so the best services work alongside families. They respect parents knowledge of their own children. They offer reliable advice, they identify risks and help parents develop confidence. That is also why services need to be welcoming and non-stigmatizing. If support is associated only with crisis, parents may delay in asking for help because they fear judgement. So the government's Best Start Family Hubs and Healthy Babies programme both provide an important basis on which to build the commitment of £500 million between this year and 2029.

The expansion of Best Start Family Hubs across every upper tier local authority and in the enhanced Healthy Babies support in areas of high deprivation, or demonstrates that the government understands the importance of this period and all of us on these benches should be proud of the legacy of Surestart at its best. Sure start understood that children's wellbeing could not be separated neatly into health, education, family circumstances and so forth. It brought support into communities and created places where parents could seek assistance without stigma.

And as my own daughter put it to me about Surestart centres in Mansfield, she described them as the best place in the universe, the best place in the universe. And we. So we should learn from the best of Surestart, from the Family Hubs programme and from the experience of Start for Life. Families are more interested in whether doors are open, the staff are present and help is effective than thinking about the organisational model. So when I consider this bill, I naturally think about my own family, but I also think about the generations of children in Mansfield and across the country whose names we don't yet know.

If we believe that every child should have the opportunity to flourish, our commitment cannot begin at nursery primary school. It must begin at the beginning. And so I congratulate the right hon. Gentleman. Again. I hope that members on both sides of the House will allow the Bill to proceed without division, work constructively on its detail in committee and help to give support for babies and their families the enduring foundation that they deserve. And this bill can help

**** Possible New Speaker ****

provide. And I commend this bill to the House. Antonia Bance thank you very much. Madam Speaker, and I want to

**** Possible New Speaker ****

much. Madam Speaker, and I want to thank the hon. Member for New Forest West, who I think has just stepped out for a moment. And all my.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

And all my. Hon. Friends who have worked on this for so long, not least my hon. Friend the Member for Washington Friend the Member for Washington and Gateshead South. Madam Deputy Speaker, I rise today to speak particularly on behalf of a group particularly on behalf of a group of babies that are sometimes forgotten and are particularly vulnerable, that is, babies who live with their families in temporary accommodation. There are seven. There are 177,500 children living in temporary accommodation at the moment, a record level one that I know we a level that we all wish to be brought down.

And yesterday I sat in a statement from my hon. Friend, the Secretary of State for housing, who set out some
13:21
Antonia Bance Portrait Antonia Bance MP (Tipton and Wednesbury, Labour)
-
-
plans as to how exactly we will do that. But for the moment, those that. But for the moment, those 177,500 children remain in temporary accommodation, often in temporary accommodation, often in single rooms with shared facilities, living with damp and mould, with no space to play, crawl or learn. Often moved repeatedly. And in a situation where often they lose situation where often they lose touch with the very support networks and services struggle to keep in touch with those families as they are far from their GPS, far from their health.

Visitors, far from the hospital where they may have been born, multiple bus journeys away from their schools, from their early years, settings from the specialists who were previously supporting those families. And for some families on

**** Possible New Speaker ****

that point. That point, I wondered if should

**** Possible New Speaker ****

That point, I wondered if should welcome join me in welcoming the in Greater Manchester, our new Mayor of Greater Manchester, Bev Craig, of Greater Manchester, Bev Craig, has has agreed to provide free bus travel for children in sheltered accommodation, which will hopefully go some way in making a difference to those children and I hope will be replicated in other areas across the country.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

In fact, my hon. Friend for the intervention, what a fantastic idea from our brilliant new mayor in Greater Manchester, one that I will raise with our fantastic mayor in the West Midlands to see if we can do similar. I frequently argue with my Sandwell Council to ensure that bus passes are provided to families in temporary accommodation. For some families, though, life in temporary accommodation can be even more devastating. Our friends at the all party group on temporary accommodation set out evidence showing that 104 children died in temporary accommodation between 2019 and 2025, and 75 of those were under the age of one.

The lullaby Lullaby Trust, who works on Sudden Infant Death syndrome, sets out that temporary accommodation provides the ideal environment for unsafe sleeping. And often these young people, these children, are placed with their families in single rooms without cots. In 2023, 4100 babies under one were placed in temporary accommodation by councils who provided no safer sleep advice to those families, and 903 babies were placed by councils in rooms without cots. And this is personal.

Babies in the 10% most deprived areas of the country are twice as likely to die as those in the 10% least deprived. My constituency is the 38th most deprived in the country, out of 543. I'm always bound when I say stats like that about Tipton and Wednesbury and Coseley to say we are proud, we are resilient, we care about our kids, we want the best for them. But as our Prime Minister has set out, 40 years of deindustrialisation and 15 years of austerity put us at the bottom of all the wrong lists, and it's our job to reverse that.

222 families are in temporary accommodation in my borough of Sandwell, and more in the bit of Dudley that I represent to 554 children. I'm sure hon. Members will agree with me. Some constituents who contact you, you worry about and you worry about them constantly. We all have our lists. I know my families in temporary accommodation. Every one of them gets a call from my office every two weeks to find out where they are up to. Every one of them has been asked by my office.

As soon as I know that they are in to. Do you have a cot for your little one? Please ask families who come into contact with in temporary accommodation if they have cots and. Please do your level best to find them a cot if they do not have one. Because temporary accommodation is not safe for babies and we should all be aware of that. I think of the families that I have met. Katie in Wednesbury. I met her in central Wednesbury, pushing her two sons through town.

On the first day that I was a candidate, she said to me, I don't think my agent thought one of his jobs was going to be childcare for small children, but it was because I needed to speak to Katie, and she talked to me about how the council had placed her two bus rides away in Walsall, trying to keep her autistic son in his setting, his his nursery setting by hook or by crook on two buses, and then quietly she rolled up her sleeve and showed me the insect bites from the infestation in the temporary accommodation she was living in.

She told me she was ashamed to show me the shame is not hers. The shame is all of ours. That that was where she was living. Not for long. We got her out. But there are still families in those situations. Sarah with three children. These aren't their names, by the way. Sarah with three children trying desperately to cook with three children in a in a kitchen, a shared kitchen. How do you cook with three little ones around your feet? You can't leave them in the single room.

That is your only private space. Steve, fighting for his family, called me at 6:20 about a month ago. Left a message. Antonia, maybe you can help. We're going to sleep in my car tonight. Me, my missus and two kids. They didn't sleep in their car. I won't let people people sleep in their car. My council, thankfully, will not let people sleep in their car, but I worry about our families in temporary accommodation and that is why I am here to speak on the babies bill.

Because although the babies bill cannot solve the housing crisis we face for children in this country, it can ensure that babies caught up in that housing crisis are not forgotten. It will mean support for infants and parents put on a stronger statutory footing, a stronger assessment of need. Accessibility for services families receive. It will help make sure that our most vulnerable babies are identified earlier and supported better, especially our babies forgotten in hotel rooms, two bus rides away from where they usually live.

This. This bill will build on a measure introduced by my right hon. Friend the Member for Houghton and Sunderland South in the Children's Wellbeing Act that councils must notify schools, GPS and health visitors when a child is placed in temporary accommodation. And what this means is that better access to health visitors, stronger perinatal mental health support, earlier intervention to stop escalation, those things will be more likely to happen for these children in temporary accommodation. In sum, it means a better chance to thrive for some of our children.

Despite the challenges their families face. I have to end by paying tribute to my three Family Hubs, my Tipton Family Hub, my Wednesbury Family Hub and my Coseley family hub. Because behind every statistic is a child and a family left devastated. We remember every one of the 76 babies who died in temporary accommodation in 2019 to 2025, and who shouldn't have. Who should have been safe. This bill will protect services for all children, especially the most vulnerable, like our babies in temporary accommodation, and I am proud to support it today.

Yeah.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Jess Asato. Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would also like to thank the right hon. Member for New Forest right hon. Member for New Forest West for bringing forward such an important and necessary bill today. It has my wholehearted support and I declare my role as chair of the all party parliamentary Group on children and a member of the Parliamentary Advisory Group for the 1001 Days Critical Days the 1001 Days Critical Days Foundation. I also proudly declare that a decade and a half ago, I worked for Dame Tessa Jowell, who pioneered the transformational Sure Start programme that the spirit of this bill echoes back to when announcing the first surestart trailblazers in this very place.

She said we are not prepared to allow children's opportunities to be set on the day that they are born, and the nature of parental influence on babies was brought up with me recently when my daughter stayed with a family friend and on her return, said mum, she taught me a brilliant poem by a guy called
13:29
Jess Asato Portrait Jess Asato MP (Lowestoft, Labour)
-
-
Larkin and it goes, they mess you Larkin and it goes, they mess you up. Your mum and dad may not mean to, but they do. They fill you with to, but they do. They fill you with the faults they had and add some extra just for you. And as shocked as I was at hearing, hearing her use the vernacular, I was delighted use the vernacular, I was delighted that she had discovered Larkin as this be. The verse was also a favourite of mine when I was a teenager, but I know more now than I did when I was a teenager, because we now know all of the brilliant research and evidence which shows that through supporting parents, they can bond and love their babies.

Breaking the stranglehold of intergenerational trauma is possible. There was a huge wealth of evidence that sat behind the need for surestart, so it was devastating to see that by the time I was having children, the strong political consensus built by the late 2000 around the value investing in the early years had become undone. It is, after all, easy to make cuts to services supporting babies, given that they neither have a voice nor a vote, but also heartbreaking to see.

The most recent evidence by the IFS quoted today, which shows children who attended Surestart had higher educational attainment, particularly those from the most disadvantaged backgrounds. This was exactly the ambition and what underpinned the introduction of Surestart by Tessa and David Blunkett and others only come to come to fruition after the whole programme had had the rug pulled from it. But I think Tessa would be delighted to see through this bill the reforging of that cross-party consensus on the issue of support for babies and their parents, and for that I would like to thank Dame Andrea Leadsom, who co-chaired the 1001 days all party parliamentary group with Tessa for her work on making this a reality and carrying the love for the smell of babies, in which they regularly discussed in Tessa's office into her programme of work at the Department of Health alongside former Minister Will Quince.

And I would also like to thank Jess Mills, Tessa's daughter, and her organisation Start Strong, through which Tessa's legacy lives on. It is our duty, not just to the memory of Tessa, but to the lives of babies and parents across the country. Facing the stark inequalities at the start of life. To embed the principles behind this bill in legislation so that it can stand the test of time. I have a particular interest in safeguarding and giving babies under the age of one account for a third of serious safeguarding reviews, and around 3/5 of child deaths reviewed nationally.

Any bill that makes babies more visible to multiple services is incredibly welcome, because it is a stain on our idea of equality that so many babies in this country begin life already at a disadvantage. That babies in the 10% most deprived areas are more than twice as likely to die as the 10% least, and that is almost a third of parents cannot afford to provide balanced meals. This bill will only succeed if it makes that scandal of inequality an issue that no future government can simply ignore.

It must be strong enough to hold successive governments feet to the fire for that to happen. This bill must have the teeth to achieve it. So I'm slightly concerned that the strength of the accountability process set out by the Bill is undermined by the ability of any Secretary of State being held to account by it, to define the scope against which they are assessed. To me, that is not strong enough, and I would like to see, on the face of the bill the specific outcomes that governments must improve for babies and young children.

And there is precedent for this. The Childcare Act 2006, which helped establish the framework for sure, Start Children's centres, placed a duty on English local authorities to not only improve the well-being of young children in their area, but crucially, to reduce inequalities between young children across a number of named outcomes, including physical and mental health and emotional wellbeing. If we want successive governments to work to improve outcomes for our babies, that requires us to be bold enough to say so in the primary legislation.

If we could place that duty on local government 20 years ago, then surely we can ask the same of our national government today. It is, of course, heartening to see the investment the government is providing and rolling out more Best Start Family Hubs and I recently visited Kirkley Best Start Family Hub in Lowestoft to see their perinatal mental health support in action, and while there we met a mother who experienced a mental health crisis and found it difficult to bond with her baby.

But with support from that mental health worker, she and her husband were slowly able to build those bonds. And when I met them, she said things were still hard. But she was able to love her baby, now a curious toddler, and she called her worker her rock. Relationships are the key. This is not just a service or intervention, but the very best of what Tessa would call the relational state. So maybe man may not need to hand misery on to man, and this bill can play its part in that.

Thank you.
13:35
Allison Gardner Portrait Dr Allison Gardner MP (Stoke-on-Trent South, Labour)
-
-
Allison Gardner thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I have spoken in Deputy Speaker. I have spoken in this House before about Stokes rates of infant mortality, which consistently rank as one of the highest in the country. In the latest data, the infant mortality rate in Stoke on Trent was 7.6 deaths per 1000 live births, almost double the national average. It is a stain on our society that in 2026, a child's chances of reaching their first birthday can be influenced by where they are born.

Infant mortality is explicitly linked to socioeconomic deprivation and is a consequence of deep rooted inequality. Tackling our infant mortality rate is a goal that is deeply important to me, and I want to take this opportunity to tell the story of one of my constituents, Ashley Wiltshire. I will get upset and of the short life of her baby daughter, Chloe, and it is upsetting to anybody who has experienced baby loss as it wants to step out. I'm sure the chair and the deputy Madam Speaker would be understand that Chloe was born prematurely just before 26 weeks on 28th of April 2011, and it may feel like a long time ago, but it isn't to Ashley.

She was, in her mum's words, a settled, healthy and happy baby. A baby who knew what she wanted and fought so hard to be here. As a premature baby, Chloe was at risk of Necrotising enterocolitis, or NEC, a serious bowel condition that can become life threatening without quick intervention. Chloe had received blood transfusions and has been given formula blood which formula? Milk, which are both risk factors for NHSE. Chloe began to show signs that something was wrong. She became pale and quiet, her body temperature lowered, her heart rate rose to 200 bpm.

She struggled to breathe. She began vomiting profusely, and she refused. Feeds. Her abdomen became hard and distended, and blood appeared in her feeding tube, a clear sign of a perforated bowel which leads to sepsis. Ashley did what any concerned parent should do. She asked questions, but she wasn't listened to. She was told the blood was gaviscon and that Chloe needed to continue being fed and medicated, causing Chloe agony. Ashley still wasn't listened to when she persisted in raising concerns about Chloe, and one nurse described her as an over the top mother.

Chloe's symptoms worsened the investigation that may have identified the problem sooner were not carried out when they could have made a difference. Lactate levels were not checked, blood gases were not carried out as appropriate. Scans focussed narrowly on her lungs and feeding continued despite signs of feeding intolerance. Tragically, little Chloe died on the 4th of June 2011, aged just 37 days old, leaving behind a very traumatised mum who, 15 years later still struggles every day with her mental health to cope with the memory of

**** Possible New Speaker ****

the unnecessary pain and death of her precious baby girl. Thank you. I thank the hon. Member for

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I thank the hon. Member for giving way on such an emotional debate for her. Would you write my my hon. Friend agree with me that actually looking after mothers actually looking after mothers before, during and after having a baby is vitally important, baby is vitally important, particularly where birth trauma or sadly, baby loss is suffered.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I wholeheartedly agree, I have never experienced it myself, and I live in awe of how women keep live in awe of how women keep managing to go day to day. Having had that experience. After fighting had that experience. After fighting for answers, Ashley finally achieved an independent review which identified missed which identified missed opportunities to detect and treat Chloe's neck earlier, alongside multiple instances of suboptimal care. That review came after four early investigations fought for by By Ashley, which by the trust's own admissions had not been conducted to the required standard.

Finally, the Royal Stoke Hospital has accepted the independent review and is and its conclusions in full. It has apologised to Chloe's family and acknowledged that Chloe would most likely have survived if those missed opportunities to detect and treat her NHSE had had not occurred. This is devastating because at the heart of this case is a mother who knew something was wrong, a mother who should have been listened to, and a baby girl fighting to live. I must state now, though, that the Royal Stoke has been made considerable improvements in recent years to its maternity services at the time of Chloe Short life.

Admittedly, the maternity service was rated as requiring improvement, with safety rated as inadequate. However, after much work, self-reflection, culture change and process improvements, the service is now rated good and I had the honour of visiting the work and the amazing midwives who work there. I commend the hospital for turning

**** Possible New Speaker ****

things around and yes. Thank you, Madam Speaker. My hon. Friend and constituency Labour has Friend and constituency Labour has just acknowledged the improvements. The Royal Stoke Hospital and I would like to join her in doing so, because it's made a massive

**** Possible New Speaker ****

because it's made a massive improvement and had a huge impact on my constituents as well as hers. Thank you and my hon. Friend was

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Thank you and my hon. Friend was with me on that visit. I'm sure he will remember how impressive it was. Importantly, one of the areas highlighted in that service improvement has been the communication with families and the way feedback and concerns are now heard and acted upon. Listening to parents is active, and listening to parents is not an optional extra. It is part of delivering safe and effective care. I ask only now that 15 years after Chloe died, they finally forward the agreed settlement to Ashley.

She wants to provide a caravan holiday home for by the sea for parents who experience the loss of their child, to allow them time to grieve and rest from the trauma. And that brings me back to why this bill matters. The bill calls for better support, guidance and information for parents and carers. In providing that support, we must recognise that parents know their children best. They know what is normal for their baby. They notice when something is changing. They may not always have the medical vocabulary to explain exactly what is wrong, but their observations are valuable, their concerns should be acknowledged and considered and, where appropriate, incorporated into the clinical picture.

Chloe's case shows why that matters. Ashley saw that something was wrong. She raised her concerns. She asked questions she should have been listened to, even while contending with the grief of losing her daughter, Ashley has sought to ensure that another family does not experience what hers did and to ensure that Chloe's legacy lives on. Ashley has developed recommendations for dealing with NEC, which show exactly what better support and guidance would be needed. These are practical recommendations are grounded in her lived experience, and I therefore ask the Minister to meet with Chloe's mother, Ashley Wiltshire, and myself, to discuss these recommendations and national lessons that can be learned from Chloe's case, and I won't go through them now.

In the interests of time, Madam Deputy Speaker, I will never forget little Chloe Wiltshire or her brave mum Ashley. I hope Ashley has received some comfort from today. She has been listened to and I thank the Bill. Sponsor the hon. Member for New Forest, for bringing this crucial bill to the House and of course, to my hon. Friend of Washington and Gateshead South. I know her support and I am honoured to support the infant's Parents and Carers Bill with it. We may create a brighter

**** Possible New Speaker ****

future for all our children. Yes. Ruth Jones thank you, Madam. Deputy Speaker, and I want to

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Deputy Speaker, and I want to pay tribute to the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent South for her emotional tribute and I hope baby emotional tribute and I hope baby Chloe's mum feels suitably that her her case has been aired here today and I do want to say thank you to and I do want to say thank you to the right hon. Member for New Forest West for bringing this bill today. It's a really important bill. today. It's a really important bill. You know, infants, parents and carers.

It's it covers it all really. But I appreciate he he has paid tribute to all those he's building on as such as Dame Andrea Leadsom, Tessa Jowell and obviously
13:44
Ruth Jones Portrait Ruth Jones MP (Newport West and Islwyn, Labour)
-
-
my good friend and previous office buddy, the hon. Member for buddy, the hon. Member for Washington and Gateshead South. So what does this bill do? It proposes a legislative framework to focus on a legislative framework to focus on three linked elements in respect of infant support services, assessment of need, provision of services and reporting. You can't get anything right unless you actually know what's going to be happening. So what's going to be happening. So the assessment is critical. So the bill is there before us.

And as the right hon. Member has said, it is a short bill. But, you know, it's it's a high, high level bill. And I'm sure in committee stages, the bill will be gone through with a fine tooth comb, and I'm sure the Minister will have a lot to to work on from it. So why 1001 days? We've already heard very clearly the evidence that the thousand and one days goes from conception to two years old. And I know as a paediatric physiotherapist, I know just how important that was, because in my day of spending 30 years as a physiotherapist, I could see pregnancy, the actual care that the mum received during pregnancy was so important.

I've seen children born with foetal alcohol syndrome. I've seen them on, you know, six hours old going through heroin withdrawal. These are things which we must not see again. We must be doing what we can to stop this. And that's why this bill is so important. Now, Madam Deputy Speaker, you may be asking why a Welsh MP is talking about this England bill, but I want to say my experience in the Welsh services, as well as the England show, just how important these early days are, which is why Surestart was so important.

And in Wales we have flying start, so these things are really, really important. We know that if a child goes through regular checks, antenatal checks mum takes, goes along to antenatal checks, has the scans, things can be picked up on scans very early on. Now we can actually treat children in the womb. This is fantastic news and a great start for any baby with any any problems which may be discovered before birth. Obviously after birth, the use of health visitors is vital.

And already we talked about the home visits. It's not enough to have an online visit. You know, baby P was was a clear example of what goes wrong when, you know, professionals are hoodwinked and that is not right. We need face to face. I know when I was a physiotherapist going to home visits, it told me so much about that family. Just walking through the door, you can see what level of money you can see. Yes, you can smell. Actually, you know what's going on in that family.

You intuitively know how much more help they might be needing. So it's really important we do that. We've heard the history very clearly today about the erosion of surestart in England, and it's important that we put into statutory note so it cannot be eroded. Again, the evidence is clear that a baby, the neuronal pathways that are set up as as my hon. Friend said, you know, every second a million are being made. But we know that from terrible evidence from children who have been isolated in orphanages, just exactly that, the lack of stimulation they receive, the problems they have, you can never make up that ground.

That's why this bill is so important. We need a level playing field for everybody to be brought up to a suitable level. And so I could go on and on, but I promise I won't, Madam Deputy Speaker, because I'm very proud of what has been achieved by Labour governments in the past. But I'm equally proud in what this bill is going to be doing in the future. And I thank the hon. Right hon. Member for bringing it today.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Which brings us to the front bench. Contributions. Doctor Caroline Johnson. Yeah, yeah.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Yeah, yeah. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. And can I start by congratulating my right hon. Friend for New Forest West on bringing forward this West on bringing forward this important bill today and on winning first place in the ballot. I'd also first place in the ballot. I'd also like to put on record my thanks to the hon. Member for Washington and Gateshead South for the work that she's done on this topic, and also to thank Will Quince and Andrea Leadsom and the 1001 Critical Days Foundation for their work to.

I must also declare an interest. Madam Deputy Speaker, I'm a consultant paediatrician, a member of the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health and a mother of three. The chair of the Education Select Committee spoke of the importance of universality and concerns faced by all parents, especially first parents. And I agree, Madam Deputy Speaker, I was very familiar with babies. When my first was born. I was working as a registrar on a large, highly specialised neonatal intensive care unit looking after babies with sepsis, babies born months early and those who are having surgical operations.

But being a parent is different. The love, the joy, the sheer responsibility of looking after that little bundle of love. I'm very grateful to the midwives who provided me with support at that time, and I particularly remember Marie, who was as good to me throughout all three of my pregnancies. The thousand and one days from window, from conception to age two is crucial. It is a window. A human brain is most malleable. It grows. It develops rapidly. It's making literally millions of connections.

The care received and the opportunities provided through this period affect brain growth and the child's development. Positive interactions, play reading, singing, cuddles strengthen this process. They improve brain connections. They support healthy development. They improve emotional regulation and social skills. And this continues into the long term. But sadly, Madam Deputy Speaker, the converse is also true. UnResponsiveness, neglect trauma. They interfere with this biological process. They disrupt the white matter structure connections. They affect the size of a child's brain growth.
13:50
Caroline Johnson Portrait Dr Caroline Johnson MP (Sleaford and North Hykeham, Conservative)
-
-
Successive governments have recognised this. They recognised how crucial the early years are, and they've tried a combination of and they've tried a combination of various types of services, some universal, some targeted, but all with the same aim of improving with the same aim of improving children's lives. Sure start was mentioned and the ring fence was removed, allowing local decision making. I believe the new Prime Minister calls this devolution. The overall Budget was strained and it resulted in difficult choices and under pressure.

Some some unwise decisions were made to cut some services by councils of all colours. Previous conservative governments did try to support children with funded nursery and childcare hours, tax free childcare, Family Hubs and in recognition that children spend most of their time at home. The Hungry Little Minds programme to support parents in helping their children at home. Madam Deputy Chair 1001 days are key. They start at conception, conception to two years and I just wanted to draw the house's attention that actually care for a baby can start before conception.

The National Health Service website advises women considering a pregnancy to ensure they have had an MMR vaccine, a smear test, sexually transmitted infection checks. They've stopped smoking, they're a healthy weight and take vitamin D and folic acid to discuss any prescription medicines with their general practitioner to see if they're suitable for pregnancy. And I know the government are bringing forward the supplement of folic acid in non wholemeal wheat flour by the end of this year, which will reduce the number of neural tube defects.

The Tobacco and Vapes bill, when it becomes potentially starts to have effect again, will help to reduce problems in pregnancy. I'd also like to raise the point that the bill is produced with the support of the DHSC, but it requires work across government is not just a health service thing that will deliver better opportunities for children. There will be, obviously the Department of Education, but also things like air quality transport services to enable people to access the services provided and the wider economy are all very important.

My hon. Friend for Bexhill and Battle talked about the wider family and that fewer people live near their extended family. Then was was the case previously, and that is something important to consider about how we ensure that people have got local support. The bill itself, Madam Chair, puts the bills, the children's services, on a statutory footing, but regulations will determine what that means, and particularly interested in whether the bill would have helped protect two services that were given to my constituents.

The edge of care service Safe Families provided befriending, practical help at home and daytime care. It ended on the 30th of June. Madam. Madam Deputy Speaker, it has not been recommissioned by Reformed County Council. This was a service that tried to help children, families who are in difficulty, whose children were at risk of being taken into care to try and keep families together but ensure the child was safe and that's been cancelled. The Lincolnshire County Council Voluntary Youth Services grant funding also stopped by Reformed County Council, so I'm interested to understand what the government's plan is in terms of the regulations, because this bill protects services, but regulations are required to say what those services will be and whether those services will be funded.

So I'm interested to hear from Minister about that, and also about the use of services themselves, because we had a debate in Westminster Hall just the other day on vaccinations. We talked about vaccinations are available. They're free for everyone to have, but not everyone takes them up. So we can have the best services in the world. But if they're not being used by the people who need them, then they won't be effective. So I'm interested to understand how she intends to ensure that the services are the uptake is good when every single baby is precious.

We. Everyone across this house we've heard today all want children to have great opportunities. We all want them to achieve their best potential and that requires teamwork. Parents, wider family, friends, community and tax funded services. We must all play our part. Supporting this bill may help to support children and I will support

**** Possible New Speaker ****

it today. Minister Dame Diana Johnson thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker and I'm very grateful for the opportunity to speak on behalf of the government in support of the infants, Parents and Carers Bill. I want to begin by congratulating the want to begin by congratulating the right hon. Member for New Forest West for securing first place in West for securing first place in the private Member's Bill ballot and on bringing this important measure before the House. In the 21 years that I've been in this place, I've never even got close to getting a private member's bill.

But I did hear from the hon. Gentleman. Right, hon. Gentleman that he had to wait 30 years to get his private member's bill. So I think there's hope for us all, and it's certainly been worth the wait. I think the bill reflects both careful thought and a determination to ensure that babies, parents and carers receive the sustained attention that they deserve. I also want to recognise the very valuable work of the 1001 Critical Days Foundation, and in particular, Dame Andrea Leadsom.

A long standing commitment to this agenda. I served in Parliament with Dame Andrea and I know over many, many years she has helped to build understanding across Parliament and beyond of why pregnancy in the first two years of life matters so profoundly. Her leadership has kept babies and their families at the heart of the national conversation. I would also commend the work of the CEO of the foundation, Wilkins, who also previously served in this House and was a health Minister as well.

And of course, my distinguished colleague, the Right Honourable Lord Blunkett, for all his work in this area. And I also just want to refer to the late Baroness Tessa Jowell, who has been mentioned many times during the course of this debate for her pioneering work around Surestart, which I will say a little bit more about a later in my speech. And of course, I also want to mention Graham Allen, the former MP for Nottingham North, for all his work in this area.

I'm grateful to for all the organisations, professionals, parents and carers whose advocacy and experience have shaped this debate. I also want to acknowledge the many excellent contributions that we've heard today, but I want to start, first of all, with the outstanding speech of my hon. Friend, the Member for Washington and Gateshead South, who was the excellent Minister in the Department of Health and Social Care up until the summer. I know that in the 21 years that she's been a member of Parliament, she has fought long and hard for the rights of babies and children, be that promoting school food or free school meals, special educational needs, or in this case, all of the work that she's done to ensure government support for the right hon.

Member's bill today, as she said, back our babies back the bill. And I think as the right hon. Member for New Forest West said, she has been campaigning for so long on these issues. And he said Since God was a boy, well, in my view, it's since God was a girl. But I want to thank her for all the work that she's done. Now, we've had some very important contributions from members across the House, wide ranging, covering many, many issues. I just want to highlight a few.

The chair of the Education Select Committee gave us the excellent phrase that's outside the Sheringham Nursery and Children's Centre, which says building brains here. I think that's something that's very powerful. We heard from my hon. Friend from Ribble Valley that raising children is a public good. We all have an interest in this. And the hon. Member for Twickenham, who talked about the really important role of charities and the voluntary sector of Home-start and in her own constituency, the Xtra Mile charity.

My honourable the hon. Member for North East Hampshire talked about medical misogyny and domestic abuse. Again, really important issues. And of course, my hon. Friend for Sherwood Forest, who talked passionately about her frontline experience of early intervention at shore starts and the power of a cup of tea. Absolutely. Sitting down with a cup of tea and having someone to talk to. And I also want to just pay tribute to her role as the government's national maternity adviser and her very wise counsel in that role.

I'm just going to carry on because I want to make sure that the these people, these members, are that I can say something about them. The honourable my hon. Friend for Glasgow East, he spoke as a recovering lawyer and he talked about the safeguarding issues and his scrutiny of the clauses of the bill. I found very interesting and important, and we will obviously reflect on that. The hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington talked about, and I wanted to wish him well, actually, as a new parent, I think the newest parent in the house, all the very best with that.

But he talked about maximising the potential of every child. My hon. Friend for Edinburgh North and Leith talked about surrogacy, a really passionate comment there about the surrogacy laws and international surrogacy in particular. And my hon. Friend for Croydon East gave her personal reflections and talked about her community as well. And of course, the hon. Member for Chichester, who talked with great skill, great knowledge and experience about her role on the APPG and her and what she also said about the support from other mums and how important that can be.

The hon. Member, my hon. Friend for Aylesbury, I wanted to again say was it Hayley who's having her first birthday? Yes. I also wanted to add my best wishes to Hayley for that. For her first birthday we heard about health inequalities. My hon. Friend for Altrincham and Sale West talked about how investing in babies is going to provide that fairer, stronger and more prosperous country that we all want to see. My hon. Friend. For Mansfield, the perspective of a grandfather. My hon.

Friend for Tipton and Wednesbury talking about temporary accommodation. My hon. Friend for Lowestoft, who quoted one of my favourite Larkin poems, and as a whole MP. And obviously Philip Larkin was the librarian at Hull University for many years. I know that poem very well, but she also talked about safeguarding and how important that that is. We get it right. And to my hon. Friend for Stoke-on-Trent South, who spoke so passionately on behalf of her constituent Ashley and baby Chloe, I just want to say, of course, I am very happy to to meet with my hon.

Friend and and with Ashley. And I'm very pleased to hear of the improvements that have been made at the Royal Stoke Hospital and my hon. Friend for Newport West and East Lewes again bringing that experience and knowledge as an NHS professional into the debate. So I will do very, very briefly because

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I'm very conscious of the time. I appreciate. That. There are many people which

**** Possible New Speaker ****

There are many people which weren't able to make a contribution in today's debate, but have much to say. So would she meet with those MPs to discuss further.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

MPs to discuss further. Issues that weren't raised in the debate? Well, again, I know my hon. Friend has a great deal of hon. Friend has a great deal of experience in in this area as well. So of course I'm my door is always open to members of Parliament to open to members of Parliament to discuss issues that are in my portfolio. So yes, of course, I want to just say a little bit about the importance of the first 1001 days. The government has set out an ambition to raise the healthiest
14:02
Diana Johnson Portrait Rt Hon Dame Diana Johnson MP, Minister of State (Department of Health and Social Care) (Kingston upon Hull North and Cottingham, Labour)
-
-
generation of children ever and give every child the best start in life. And if we are to achieve that, life. And if we are to achieve that, we must begin at the very beginning, the 1001 days from pregnancy to a child's second birthday are a unique window of opportunity. During that short period, babies, During that short period, babies, brains, bodies, and relationships develop at extraordinary speed. The experiences they have and the care experiences they have and the care and support around them help to lay foundations for physical health, emotional well-being, communication and learning.

And I've seen that myself in recent weeks with the birth of my great niece, Isabel Diane. A baby does not develop in isolation. Their world is shaped by the adults who care for them. Supporting a baby therefore means supporting the whole family, helping parents and carers to build confidence, protecting their mental health, strengthening the parent infant relationship and providing practical help with feeding and child development. I am going to carry on that. Support must be accessible and compassionate. Parenthood can be joyful, but it can also be exhausting and isolating.

Some families face the additional pressure of poverty, insecure housing, poor mental health or limited support networks, and early help cannot remove every challenge, but it can prevent difficulties from escalating and reduce inequalities before they become entrenched. And that is also why the child poverty strategy is so important. Running alongside all that this government is doing so early intervention is not only the right thing to do for babies and families now, it is an investment in the future when parents and carers receive the right help at the right time, children have a strong platform from which to grow, learn and thrive and there is less need for costly crisis intervention later on.

I just want to say a few things about Surestart. We all know that well designed support can make a lasting difference, and Surestart launched in 1998 under the previous Labour government, brought health, early learning, childcare, parenting and wider family support together for families with children under five at its best, it offered a trusted local front door with professionals working around the needs of the child and the family, rather than expecting families to navigate a maze of separate services.

The long term evidence of its success is absolutely compelling. Research by the Institute for Fiscal Studies found that children with greater access to shore start experience fewer hospital admissions later in childhood and adolescence, better educational outcomes, improved mental health, and lower levels of school absence. This was felt even more profoundly by children growing up in disadvantaged communities. Very importantly, there is also a strong economic case. The central estimate is that shore starts long term financial benefits were around twice its upfront cost.

That matters because it shows that early support is not simply a desirable addition to public services. It can improve lives, reduce pressure on health and education services, and provide value for the taxpayer. Now, the lesson is not that every aspect of the past should be reproduced unchanged. It is the trusted local provision, early help joined up services and a clear focus on families that can make that measurable difference. And these principles are the ones running through the government's approach today, through the BIS Best Start Family Hubs and the Healthy Babies programme, we are building a more joined up, prevention focussed system of support as part of the wider Best Start in life agenda.

Best Start Family Hubs are designed to give families a clear route to the help and support that they need, making it easier for families to find information, advice and practical help from pregnancy. Through childhood. They bring together health, early education and wider family services, connecting parents and carers to support with parenting, relationships, child development, special educational needs and disabilities, financial wellbeing and community support. And since April 26th, all 153 upper tier local authorities in England have been delivering the programme.

Healthy Babies sits at the heart of the Best Start Family Hubs, providing that focussed help from conception to age two, particularly with infant feeding, perinatal mental health and parent information. Infant relationships these services support parents and carers to nurture their babies and promote healthy physical, social and emotional development. And the government is investing £200 million in healthy babies over three years as part of our wider £900 million package for Best Start Family Hubs and Healthy Babies. The Healthy Babies funding is helping 75 local authorities with high levels of deprivation to strengthen these services.

The support is practical as well as preventative and it includes 1 to 1 and peer support, with infant feeding help for mild to moderate perinatal mental health difficulties and evidence based work to strengthen the relationship between parent and baby. It also helps local areas to publish clear information and to involve parents and carers directly in designing and improving services. Importantly, this is not a one size fits all model and local areas are responding to the needs of their own community. Effective support is not simply about making services available, but about ensuring that parents, carers and expectant families feel confident seeking that help and can access it when they need it.

It means building on the strengths already present in communities, creating opportunities for families to support one another, and developing trust in relationships that the no family feels they must face challenges on their own, and we are committed through the ten year health plan to expand expanding Healthy Babies nationally over the coming decade. We want to create that visible local offer, rooted in neighbourhoods and designed around families. So why is this bill needed? Government is taking action to support babies and their families, but history shows us that effective early years support can be vulnerable when it depends mainly on time.

Limited programmes, non-statutory guidance or broad general duties, priorities and funding arrangements change services that families value can lose visibility or become fragmented. And as one of those who was around during the time that we were having to fight to try and keep your starting place, and the warnings that were given about how short sighted it was to cut and dismantle this service. I know that the battle is really hard. And so this bill is very, very welcome. Now, this bill provides a focussed and proportionate response.

Its central purpose is to ensure the needs of babies. Parents and carers are systematically understood, reflected in relevant decisions and made visible to Parliament. Pregnancy and the and the first two years should not be treated as a passing policy priority. They should receive sustained attention over time. The bill does not create new individual entitlements to a fixed list of services, and it does not prescribe a single model of what these services should look like. Instead, it creates a durable national framework so that decisions on infant support services are informed by evidence assessed and the lived experience of families.

What does the bill do? Well, we we've heard already that it establishes five linked duties. First, the Secretary of State must make regulations specifying the publicly funded infant support services and relevant functions to which the framework applies. Secondly, the Secretary of State must assess the expected level of need for those specified services. Thirdly, in preparing that assessment, the Secretary of State must take reasonable steps to seek the views of parents, carers and those expecting to become parents or carers and must take those views into account.

Fourthly, the Secretary of State must exercise the the specified functions with a view to ensuring appropriate provision. And finally, the Secretary of State must report annually to Parliament on the level of provision and the contributions that those services make to positive outcomes. The government supports the Bill because it aligns with our priorities. It advances our ambitions to raise the healthiest generation of children ever and reinforces the work already under way through healthy babies and Best Start Family Hubs. And for those reasons, the government is supporting the bill this afternoon.
14:10
Desmond Swayne Portrait Rt Hon Sir Desmond Swayne MP (New Forest West, Conservative)
-
-
With the leave of the House, I call to Desmond Swayne to wind up call to Desmond Swayne to wind up briefly with the leave of the House. Madam chair, I'd like to thank hon. Madam chair, I'd like to thank hon. Members for their contributions. I am presented with a difficulty of framing a standing committee that balances those who supported the Bill at Second Reading with those who opposed it. If those members who were unfortunate in not catching your eye, Madam Speaker, but nevertheless want to serve on the Standing Committee, if they would let me know, I will attempt to accommodate as many as I can.

During the debate, a number of members referred to breastfeeding and the need for it and its importance, and it reminded me that for many years, my wife was a breastfeeding counsellor for the National Childbirth Childbirth Trust, and part of the training for that involved being a breastfeeding agent for the breast feeding pump, which clients could hire for a pound a week. It was a bit like an iron lung that sat in our basement. You got inside and it went to pocket to pocket a pocket and extruded the milk.

And it was always a mystery to me as to why my SodaStream delivered a cloudy product, and it wasn't till later that I discovered that I had been serving milkshakes, because my wife had been using the machine and storing her product in the in the Ice maker. Ladies. Madam Speaker, the 1944 Education Act, the Butler Act, which made such a profound difference to the lives of children in our country, was preceded by a white Paper, the coalition government's White Paper, in which it set out its vision in 1943 for, and I quote, a happier childhood and a better start to life.

Let us hope that we have begun a process today with this legislation that will have as profound an impact.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Yeah, yeah. The question is that the bill be

**** Possible New Speaker ****

The question is that the bill be now read a second time, as many as are of that opinion say aye. Of the contrary, no. I think the ayes have

**** Possible New Speaker ****

it. The ayes have it. Northern Ireland Troubles, the criminal investigations, etc. Bill, Second Reading.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Second Reading. Now. Lincoln Jopp.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Yes. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I beg to move that the Snappily I beg to move that the Snappily titled Northern Ireland Troubles brackets, criminal investigations, etc. brackets bill now be read a etc. brackets bill now be read a second time and I am grateful to my co-sponsors who are the Deputy Leader of the Opposition, the Shadow Defence Secretary, the Shadow Justice Secretary, the Shadow Justice Secretary, the Shadow Housing Secretary, the Shadow Minister for defence, the Member for Broxbourne, Dumfries and Galloway, Strangford, Devon North and Solihull West and Shirley.

And last but definitely not least because he'd been such a massive

**** Possible New Speaker ****

advocate and supporter for this. The Member for the right hon. Member for Goole and Pocklington. Yeah.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Yeah. I did try very hard to get. Hon. Members will know that I've got a Members will know that I've got a liberal Democrat now and I've got a Democratic Unionist Party in there. I did try very hard to get a Labour I did try very hard to get a Labour support, a Labour member to co-sponsor this bill, but to no co-sponsor this bill, but to no avail. And I'm very sad about that. Equally, I noticed that we do not have any of the members of the
14:14
None Portrait Private Members' Bills: Northern Ireland Troubles (Criminal Investigations etc) Bill: Second Reading
-

self-styled Patriots, the Reform Party here, who don't even have a
14:14
Lincoln Jopp Portrait Lincoln Jopp MP (Spelthorne, Conservative)
-
-
Party here, who don't even have a defence spokesman. I suspect having watched the television last night, though, they will have quite a few though, they will have quite a few defence lawyers. I would like to. I defence lawyers. I would like to. I would like to apologise to the would like to apologise to the hundreds of. People across the country who I know have written to their MPs at my request, asking them to be here today and to support this Bill, and I.

I'm incredibly sorry that the government so disliked this bill that we have had 4.75 hours of the House in fervent agreement with itself, albeit on a very important issue. And that means that I get 15 minutes at the end. And this is a tactic because and to those veterans sitting in the public gallery who have been there, you know, been there since 930 this morning, expecting to hear a debate in support of our veterans. I feel very sorry for them because they will be as confused as I am as to why the government so dislikes this bill.

And the reason why I'm quite so discombobulated is because the the Member for Birmingham Selly Oak, who thought this was sufficiently important to make it a resigning issue, but not, sadly, sufficiently important to be here today. But he said of the Government's Northern Ireland Legacy Bill that it is not fit for purpose. It risks failing the very veterans it claims to protect people who did their duty under conditions most individuals in Westminster will never have to imagine. Well, the good news is I don't have to imagine them and I have to declare an interest.

This bill would affect me because I spent. I did four tours of Northern Ireland, spent three and a half years of my life trying to bring peace to that place and what I will do because I am incredibly time constrained and the. My friend the member from Dumfries and Galloway, is under orders that at 28 minutes past he will make a discreet tug on my jacket and 29 minutes past he will positively yank me to the bench. In order that this bill does not fall.

The. What this bill does, and it's very simple in a nutshell. It would place into law that there could be no further investigations, inquiries, inquests or prosecutions of Northern Ireland veterans unless and until there was new compelling evidence in the view of a Supreme Court judge. It's really that simple. And I really don't understand why the government don't simply. done all the hard work on the wording, as have the generals as have community to bring this bill. Today, the government are promising us that they're going to bring forward protections for our veterans in the amendments that they're going to bring to this bill.

Now, given that, I'm not going to be able this this bill won't really progress from today, but maybe the Minister would consider taking this bill lock, stock and barrel and simply representing it to the House as one of the government's amendments to its own bill, because I think it's completely reasonable, and I can't remember which US president said it. But it's amazing what you can achieve when no one is worried about who gets the credit. And so I don't mind whether the government want to take credit for this.

I would be the happiest veteran in the country if they simply take this bill and make this one of their amendments. And I. I know the Minister well, having served on the Defence Select Committee, and I. That is my entreaty to him. The

**** Possible New Speaker ****

reason why I do. I do beg your pardon the Minister pardon. It's not.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

It's not. I made. I made an unreasonable assumption that it might be a defence Minister who was replying defence Minister who was replying to this debate. So that's what the Bill does in a nutshell. And the reason why it's important. When I reason why it's important. When I was getting ready for my first Northern Ireland tour, the. We were Northern Ireland tour, the. We were training and they had invented a thing called the Coffee Jar Bomb, and the coffee jar bomb was lethal.

It was a Nescafé jar with a length of scaffolding in it, and what was affectionately known as shipyard confetti, nuts and bolts, some plastic explosives and a plunger switch, the sort that turns the light off on your fridge door, and that would be rigged up in the shape of a coffee jar, and it would be carried to a riot or and slung over a wall in particular. So there was no line of sight when they knew that troops were the other side.

It was designed to kill and maim, but it was also designed to put US troops on the horns of a dilemma, because if you saw someone with a coffee jar in their hand and they were looking like they were going to throw it, could you reasonably open fire under the rules of engagement? Because it could be a coffee jar. And in order to prepare for our Northern Ireland tour coming up in Belfast in 1992, which, by the way, there was a young second lieutenant, Ben Wallace, in the same battalion getting ready at that time.

And in order to prepare, we would have our judgemental shooting tested on a thing called a mini range and the mini range. You would lie on the floor with your rifle in your hand, a sub cal and a scenario would build up in front of you, whether it was a public order one, whether it was a sniper getting ready to shoot and you knew the rules of engagement, you could see the scenario building up. And at the critical moment when you thought that the threat required it and the rules of engagement allowed it, you opened fire and the action froze, and a tiny pink dot would appear on the screen to see whether you had hit or not.

And your instructor would then debrief you as to whether you had acted reasonably, or whether you could in fact, be prosecuted. And there was this one scenario, and it was devilishly difficult, and it was of a public order scene, and it was of one of these coffee jars being passed around. And it was at the point of launch that I said to the instructor, stop the tape. And the action froze. And I said, can I open fire? And my instructor, he paused, and he said, sir, you have chosen a very difficult moment indeed.

And it is at times like this, sir, that you remind yourself that it is sometimes better to be tried by 12 men than carried by six. Completely chilling. But that is, in effect, what we have done for decades. We have put young men and women into the streets of the United Kingdom with a rifle strapped around their neck with very, very few rights, in addition to those that they have as a private citizen. And we have sent them on patrol in order to try to keep the peace.

And with bad people on all sides trying to do bad things to them. And on our on that Northern Ireland tour, with the words of my colour Sergeant ringing in my ears, it's better to be tried by 12 men than carried by six. It turns out not to be true. It turns out you get tried by one man. In the case of two of our guardsmen who were involved in a judgemental shooting situation, and they were convicted of murder and given life.

And the reason why I raised that point is to make the point that these cases have been investigated and judgements have been made. And what I am seeking to do with this bill, and hopefully with the government's amendment, is to draw a line, a fair line such that the never ending cycle of investigation, inquiries, inquests, prosecutions are used as a punishment tool themselves on our veterans because ask any veteran involved in this space and they will tell you that the process is the punishment.



**** Possible New Speaker ****

Allow me very quickly. I will. Mark Francois in essence, what my hon. Friend is doing very ably is to try and defend those who defended us. Can I place on the record that in that noble aim from

**** Possible New Speaker ****

these benches, the conservative benches, he has our wholehearted and undivided support? Yes.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Yes. I'm grateful to my hon. Friend for that intervention and I do genuinely. There is support. I know there's support on the benches opposite as well, and I just couldn't find it when I went out for sponsors because there are many, many veterans on the benches opposite and on the Liberal Democrat benches, and there is a lot of support for this within the country. And I hope that the government listens to that body of feeling.

Why does it matter? Why does why does this bill matter, and why should it get the House's support? The reason why it matters is because of a very important thing, and it is called the moral component of fighting power. The British believe in a model that there are three components the physical, the guns and the bullets, the conceptual, the way in which you fight and the moral component. How how you fight, why you fight, why you are prepared to put yourself at risk for the British citizenry, for the man, man and woman standing next to you, and that you will do your best to achieve your mission and potentially pay the ultimate sacrifice.

And the moral component is more important than all these things. Because Napoleon observed he was a great believer in this model, and Napoleon observed that the moral is to the physical as three is to one. Yeah. And if we undermine, we undermine the moral component of fighting power at our peril, because, and I this gave me no joy. Someone sent me a meme and it was a photograph, a real. It wasn't mobbed up. It was a real photograph of the former Prime Minister addressing a load of troops who were getting ready to deploy, and the caption said, we want you to go to Ukraine where we will ask you to do things we're going to prosecute you for in 30 years time.

Now, I'd be delighted

**** Possible New Speaker ****

to give way. Very briefly. Could I first of all, thank the hon. Member for his service in hon. Member for his service in Northern Ireland and to extend that to the thousands of servicemen who came to my party of the United came to my party of the United Kingdom to defend democracy and defend us all from terrorist forces. But when he mentions moral issues, But when he mentions moral issues, isn't the greatest fall in the government's bill the moral equivalence that it creates between the terrorist who wakens up, determined to kill, and the law and

**** Possible New Speaker ****

order agent who wakens up, determined to defend people from being killed. Lincoln Jopp.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Lincoln Jopp. There is no moral equivalence in my book between men and women who serve their nation in good faith serve their nation in good faith and did a difficult job in a in a deadly environment. And what the deadly environment. And what the terrorists did, and I think. But it is worth pointing out, if any members are

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Feeling queasy about this bill. One thing it is not is an amnesty. It doesn't. No one's looking for a free pass here. If there is new, compelling evidence that emerges in the view of a Supreme Court, then by all means, those cases should be reopened. But we cannot allow this never ending, not so merry go round of prosecution investigation of our people to continue. The trouble is, in Northern Ireland, everything is totemic because the Good Friday Agreement was a peace agreement.

It it didn't deliberately answer the question who won? And so in order to. As an extension of the troubles by other means, this is becoming part of the answer to that question. The more people can prosecute our troops, the more that they seem to have answered that question. And we must bring an end to it. And so I

**** Possible New Speaker ****

commend this statement to the House. Yes. The question is that the bill be

**** Possible New Speaker ****

The question is that the bill be now read a second time. Adam Thompson thank. You, Madam Deputy Speaker. Can I

**** Possible New Speaker ****

You, Madam Deputy Speaker. Can I thank the honourable and gallant member from Spelthorne for the for the wonderful way in which he's the wonderful way in which he's introduced the Bill today and given us the opportunity to have this us the opportunity to have this conversation. As many hon. Members will do, would approach this debate with some significant degree of hesitation because of the weight of the issues that we're discussing. And the legacy of the troubles has as one of those issues where every honourable and right hon.

Member, I think, must begin with a significant degree of caution. We are discussing, Madam Deputy Speaker, events which scarred communities, took thousands of communities, took thousands of lives and left behind serious grief. There are families who still don't There are families who still don't know the full circumstances of how are.
14:30
Adam Thompson Portrait Adam Thompson MP (Erewash, Labour)
-
-
Former order Order, order debate to be resumed. What day?

**** Possible New Speaker ****

The 11th of September. Madam. The 11th of September 2026.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

The 11th of September 2026. Childlike sexual. Abuse dolls. Offences bill. Second Reading.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Offences bill. Second Reading. Now. The question is that the bill Now. The question is that the bill be now read a second time. As many be now read a second time. As many as are of that opinion say aye. Of the contrary, no. I think the ayes have it. The ayes have it. Multi-storey car park safety bill. Second Reading. I beg to move. Madam Deputy Speaker.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Object. Objection taken. Second Reading. What day? Friday the 11th of What day? Friday the 11th of September. Madam Deputy Speaker, Friday the 11th of September. Pons Friday the 11th of September. Pons Permitted development Bill, Second

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Permitted development Bill, Second Reading. Objection taken. Second Reading. What day? Friday the 16th of October.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Friday the 16th of October. Friday the 16th of October. Sale and Supply of Glue Traps

**** Possible New Speaker ****

prohibition Bill. Second Reading. On behalf of sponsoring member. Now, Madam Deputy Speaker.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Now, Madam Deputy Speaker. Objection taken. Second Reading. What day? 11th of September.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

11th of September. Friday, the 11th of September. I beg to move that this House does beg to move that this House does now adjourn. The question is that this House do now adjourn. Catherine West thank you very much,
14:31
14:32
Catherine West Portrait Catherine West MP (Hornsey and Friern Barnet, Labour)
-
-
and care system, navigating the endlessly complicated care pathways endlessly complicated care pathways from primary NHS care, social care, community support and housing is not easy. The exponential growth in mental health referrals, coupled with the enormous pressures on local authorities to provide social local authorities to provide social care and social housing against increasingly constrained budgets, has created a perfect storm and has created a perfect storm and it's being felt across the country. But most acutely in my community, where people are too often failed in their time of greatest need.

Too many people are being left without the care, support, and stability they desperately need to recover. And Madam Deputy Speaker, a previous Labour Prime Minister emphasised that his priorities were education, education, education. But when it comes to mental health and social care, we need to talk about early intervention, early intervention, early intervention, the North London education. The North London Foundation Trust, which covers Barnet, Camden, Enfield, Haringey and Islington, say that the financial challenges facing local authorities is really straining their ability to work together, as they're forced to consider more radical reductions in adult social care services and in particular, the reduction in investment into preventative and early intervention services is having a catastrophic effect.

But local trusts are finding it hard enough to fund their basic statutory responsibilities. It's the lack of suitable housing and step down care, which is also having a direct impact on inpatient services and contributing to much longer hospital stays. And that's the system that I'll be focusing on today. The trust says that of the five local authorities they cover, Haringey is the most affected by the lack of suitable and affordable housing and therefore has the largest number of delayed discharges.

From January to July of 2026, a total of 846 occupied bed days were unavailable to other patients desperate for care due to Haringey residents being unable to be discharged from one of their mental health inpatient wards, despite being clinically ready for discharge in July alone, the trust had an average of ten in-patients from Haringey and one of their wards who were clinically ready to leave, but could not be discharged due to lack of suitable housing provision or social care support, and that 8 to 12% of the total adult inpatient bed base was unavailable to other patients who needed one.

Healthwatch Haringey has highlighted the recurring barriers to gaining access to timely, coordinated and person centred mental health support. For example, a lack of continuity between services, fragmented care pathways, inconsistent communication between providers and when services do not work together effectively, people experience poorer outcomes and are more likely to reach crisis point. And this is precisely the cycle which we need to break. We need to protect organisations like Healthwatch and others, which amplify voices so that we can understand the data behind monitoring service quality and amplifying patient voices.

Someone who's clinically well enough to leave hospital can become trapped at the most expensive stage of the care pathway, unable to continue their recovery in the community, and at the same time, someone desperate experiencing acute mental health crisis may be unable to gain access to a hospital bed. It's not an effective use of public money that public money could be spent on quality of care, which we know is desperately important concern for those whose families are suffering from the particular care that their loved ones have received.

In March 2024, mental health trusts in England recorded 49,677 delayed discharge days, the highest level since national reporting began. Analysis of NHS data identified Barnet, Enfield and Haringey Mental Health NHS trust among those with some of the highest levels of delayed discharge nationally. These figures demonstrate exactly the point I'm making today that mental health cannot be treated in isolation from housing and social care. In order to fix one, we must fix all three Disability Action Haringey, which does excellent work supporting disabled people to maintain their independence and freedom, has highlighted the combination of difficulties accessing suitable housing, delays in obtaining social care, the financial hardship so many suffer, social isolation and the challenges of navigating multiple services simultaneously.

People experience poor housing or insufficient care. Their mental health deteriorates, they reach crisis point, they require hospital treatment. And this is the cycle which we must break. We have to. In my constituency, for example, the Safe Haven Crisis Hub provides a vital service helping people to de-escalate during a mental health crisis and provide an alternative to accident and emergency. And I know this is the kind of example that Baroness Casey will be looking at, and she's very welcome to come and visit Mind in Haringey, which hosts this particular crisis hub because it is best practice staff there have been seen been seeing people reaching out to the services with increasingly complex needs, often requiring coordinated support across health, housing, social care and the voluntary and community sector.

And that's why collaborative care and cross body communication is so critical. We also have a rapidly ageing population across Haringey and Barnet, which will inevitably place additional pressure on social care. Haringey Council's Older People's Needs assessment reported that Haringey had around 27,700 residents aged 65 and over in 2022. That figure is projected to rise by approximately 40%. The pressure on our social care system is therefore going to grow, as we all know, and we need to ensure the system is ready for it.

The evidence is clear mental health services cannot be considered in isolation from social care. Investment in social care is not separate from investment in mental health service, it's investment in mental health. Investment in supportive housing is not separate from relieving pressure on the NHS. It is part of relieving that pressure and investment in community based support is not simply about providing an alternative to hospital, it's about helping people recover, maintain their independence and avoid reaching crisis point in the first place.

I strongly welcome the government's commitment to address these enormous challenges, and was particularly excited to hear the Prime Minister talking about tackling social care in advance of 2028, which was when Baroness Casey was going to report back. I also welcome the government's wider action to improve mental health care through the NHS ten Year plan, and would like to invite to ask for a meeting so that I can discuss standards of care within the mental health service, and also to invite Baroness Casey or the Minister to mind in Haringey to see an excellent way in which the statutory and voluntary sectors work together.

Earlier this year, we successfully reached the target of recruiting 8500 mental health workers due to the government's act. That's a crucial step forward towards providing better and earlier care closer to people's homes, and I very much welcome the 343 million to open 159 NHS mental health centres across England, giving people access to specialist support away from A&E. We know these problems are not just about cash, they're about the system being proactive and improving the morale of the workforce so that we can improve the outcomes for patients.

Finally, talking about housing investments are crucial, but we know that the 39 billion earmarked for social and affordable housing has the potential to be transformative. And we heard the Secretary of State yesterday in the House laying out her vision for tackling rough sleeping, which, of course, is an element in the mental health jigsaw puzzle. To conclude, Madam Deputy Speaker, we want people to maintain their independence. They need appropriate homes and community support. If we want to prevent people from reaching crisis point, we need to address the circumstances which contribute to the stress and worry and deteriorating mental health.

Social care reform has been pushed down the road too many times, but now is the moment for it to come forward. The answer is we must invest further upstream to improve people's life. Free up NHS capacity, reduce unnecessary hospital stays, support recovery and a health and care system that's preventative rather than reactive. People living in Hornsey and Friern Barnet and communities across the country should be able to live safely, recover with dignity and get the right support. And in pulling together my words, Madam Deputy Speaker, I wanted to thank the wonderful staff at the North London Mental Health Foundation Trust, who did sadly lose members during the Covid because they were so close to patients.

And I feel that that perhaps still has not got back to where it was pre-COVID, that we need to support that workforce mind in Haringey, Safe Haven, Disability Action, Haringey, Healthwatch, Haringey, Haringey Council and Barnet Council and all the elected members who care deeply about the future of social care in the UK. Thank you.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Mr. Dean Diana Johnson. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Can I start, first of all, by Can I start, first of all, by congratulating my hon. Friend for securing this important debate, and at the outset, I would like to tell at the outset, I would like to tell my hon. Friend that I've spoken to the care Minister. She is very the care Minister. She is very happy to meet with the my hon. Friend to discuss her concerns and also, as my hon.

Friend was just also, as my hon. Friend was just setting out her concerns around standards of care in particular, so that we can arrange for that to happen. I think this debate is important because when we talk about social care and mental health services, it can be very easy to talk in terms of systems and services and assessments and waiting lists. But actually behind
14:43
Diana Johnson Portrait Rt Hon Dame Diana Johnson MP, Minister of State (Department of Health and Social Care) (Kingston upon Hull North and Cottingham, Labour)
-
-
every one of these words is a real person. It's someone who may be struggling to get through the day without the right support. It may be a family member who has reached breaking point, trying to care for breaking point, trying to care for someone that they love. Those are the people that we must keep at the heart of the changes that we are heart of the changes that we are making to our NHS and social care system, and I know my hon. Friend has taken a sustained interest in has taken a sustained interest in these issues in Hornsey and Friern Barnet, particularly the pressures facing adult social care and mental health services, the importance of community provision and ensuring people can access the right support at the right time.

And I want to start by being clear it is unacceptable that anyone is left without the mental health care that they need, particularly when they are in crisis. If I turn to the local picture in my hon. Friend's constituency, there is clearly variation in mental health need across north London, prevalence of severe mental health illness is particularly high in Haringey, where an estimated 1.44% of residents are living with a severe mental illness, compared with 1.16 nationally, making it amongst the highest in England.

Residents of Hornsey and Friern Barnet draw on mental health and social care services at some of the most difficult points in their lives. The constituency, as my hon. Friend knows, is served by both Barnet and Haringey councils, and there is a different picture in each area. Barnet was assessed by the Care Quality Commission as good in January 25th. Haringey was rated as requires improvement in February 25th, with the CQC highlighting the concerns including mental health, discharge processes, communication and timeliness around hospital discharge, partnership working and a shortage of move on accommodation for people with mental health needs.

I appreciate how important these issues are for people who are already facing considerable challenges, and how frustrating it is when services do not work together effectively. The department is therefore supported Haringey through its improvement offer, and I am pleased that the Council has engaged constructively with that process. In May, Haringey requested to be de-escalated from the department's formal reporting process, which was accepted. The council provided a voluntary update on its progress in August and expressed confidence in its improvement trajectory.

Whilst this is encouraging, I want to be clear that de-escalation does not change the CQC rating, which remains. It requires improvement until the CQC complete a further assessment. The CQC issued a notice of assessment on the 3rd of August and we will now await the outcome. I hope this will provide a clear picture of the progress being made and most importantly, help people ensure that help ensure that people receive the safe, timely and joined up support that they deserve. I just want to say a few words about the national picture for mental health.

I think we can all acknowledge the challenge is significant, but our ambition is significant to. The ten year health plan sets out our ambition to reform the NHS, and we are already taking important steps to improve mental health services, including reforming the Mental Health Act to support better and more personalised care, and recruiting thousands more mental health staff. We are also making £473 million of capital funding available over the next four years, including community based mental health centres and mental health emergency departments.

This includes £343 million to establish 100 community based mental health centres and 59 mental health emergency departments across England. Building on the six centres already operating in Birmingham, York, Copeland, Tower Hamlets, Lewisham and Sheffield. One community based mental health centre will be established in most places in England. This typically typically coincides with a borough in London. Mental health emergency departments will cover approximately 50% of type one A and E departments by 2930, and I am pleased to report that there is already a unit operational at Highgate Mental Health Centre on Dartmouth Park Hill since 24, but of course we recognise that we must go further.

That is why we are developing a new mental health strategy for England, which will set out how we can transform mental health care so that people receive support earlier, face shorter waits and are helped to stay active and participate in education, work, family and community life. Look dealing with now the delayed discharge and inpatient capacity. My hon. Friend has described how discharge delays in mental health settings can leave people with no choice but to remain in mental health inpatient settings for longer than is appropriate.

The government recognises the importance of ensuring that people can leave hospital as soon as they are ready, with the appropriate support in place, such as rehabilitation services. This provision requires effective joint working across health and social care services, and that's why the Better Care Fund has committed over £9 billion of funding in 2627 to integrated care boards and local authorities. This pooled funding is intended to support services that help people retain or recover their independence and prevent avoidable admissions.

Funding receipts are expected to agree. Sorry funding recipients are expected to agree local goals for preventing avoidable admissions and reducing those delayed discharge, and work together to develop effective services. If I now just address the social care, housing and community support at Discharge Point that my hon. Friend made so eloquently for some people, particularly those with more complex needs, being clinically fit to leave hospital is not the only condition required for a safe and successful discharge. The right social care, housing and community support must also be available to enable them to live well in the place they call home, in particular, autistic people and people with a learning disability can lack suitable supported housing options in their community, which can contribute to people remaining in mental health hospitals past the point of need.

The government is taking action to increase the availability of appropriate housing and support, including through the 39 billion social and Affordable Homes programme that my hon. Friend referred to, through which we want to see new supported housing supply across a diverse range of housing types, including for people with learning disabilities and autistic people. NHS England is also investing £13 million in 2627 through its Housing Capital programme to support areas to develop housing for autistic people and people with learning disabilities outside of mental health hospital settings, alongside additional funding to support the development of crisis accommodation, supporting timely discharge includes ensuring that suitable arrangements are in place.

It is essential that people leave mental health inpatient settings safely, with appropriate support in the community and with their needs properly considered. Revised statutory guidance on discharge from mental health inpatient settings was published in 2024 under the NHS act 2006. The guidance sets out how health and care systems can work effectively together to support discharge from hospital and ensure the right support is in place in the community. It also includes best practice on involving patients and carers in discharge planning, as well as providing clarity on how health and care partners should work together effectively, including in relation to shared responsibilities and arrangements for funding.

Section 117 aftercare. Section 117 of the Mental Health Act places a duty on the NHS and local authorities to provide aftercare to certain patients who have been detained under the Act. Once they leave hospital. That aftercare should provide people with the support they need to live successfully and safely in the community, while reducing the risk of deterioration in their mental health and the need for further hospital admissions. Depending on an individual's needs, aftercare can include accommodation, day services and other health and social care support.

We know, however, that there can be a lack of clarity over which organisation are responsible for providing and funding aftercare and in which locality, which can lead then to further delays in providing support to vulnerable people. The government's recent reforms to the Mental Health Act 2025 clarify which local authority is responsible for arranging an individual's aftercare. They do this by applying the existing social care rules on ordinary residents to people receiving aftercare under the Mental Health Act. This should provide greater, greater clarity and consistency for local authorities and icbs, supporting more effective joint planning and better aligned aftercare services.

If I just now turn to longer term adult social care reform and the Casey Commission, which my hon. Friend referred to, we obviously need to think ambitiously about the future of social care. At its best, social care is transformational. It can give people the support they need to live independently, maintain relationships, contribute to their communities, and live the lives that they want. That is at the heart of the government's vision for a national care service, a system that is more person centred, integrated with health services and preventative.

The Prime Minister has been clear that he wants to see rapid progress towards that vision. Working in partnership with the adult care sector, the Independent Commission on Adult Social Care, led by Baroness Casey, remains central to the government's ambitions to reform the sector. Baroness Baroness Casey's big conversation on care, launched on the 29th of July, gives people across England the opportunity to tell us what they want and expect from a future care service. This conversation will feed into the commission's recommendations for the funding of adult social care, which will now be made in the summer of 27, and in the meantime, we will continue to put in place the building blocks of the National Care Service through improving support for the workforce and unpaid carers, and providing over £4.6 billion of additional funding available for adult social care in 2829, compared to 2526.

In conclusion, I want to thank my hon. Friend again for raising these important issues and for shining a light on the experience of people who rely on mental health and social care services in her constituency. They are encouraging signs of progress locally, particularly in Haringey's engagement with the improvement process. But there is clearly more to do. The government is determined to support local partners to make these improvements, while also addressing the long term challenges facing social care. Ultimately, this is about making sure that no one is left waiting unnecessarily for care and giving every person confidence that the services around them will work together when they

**** Possible New Speaker ****

need them most. The question is that this.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

The question is that this. House do now adjourn. As many as

**** Possible New Speaker ****

House do now adjourn. As many as of that opinion say are the ayes
This debate has concluded
Return to start of debate - Return to top of page