Health and Social Care Act 2012

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Wednesday 25th April 2012 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I am in tune with the sentiments that the noble Baroness has expressed. I am sure that she will be in no doubt that my department will be monitoring the implementation of the Act very closely. Of course Ministers will continue to provide information to Parliament—for example in response to Questions and in Select Committees and, indeed, in debates if noble Lords put down Motions. I am sure that we will provide a lot of information both on the implementation of the Act and on health and social care more widely in the months and years ahead.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

I wonder if the noble Earl can explain a remark that he made early in his original Answer to the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, when he said that all government Bills are subject to post-legislative scrutiny within five years. I am sure that that is true in some way, but not in a way that I personally understand, and I am sure that it is not entirely clear to the House in what way such scrutiny is carried out. It certainly is not what is commonly meant by post-legislative scrutiny—that all Bills should be subject to it.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, my understanding is that formal post-legislative scrutiny is a relatively new invention. It came in under the previous Administration in, I think, 2008. So until now there have been very few if any—there may have been one or two, a handful—formal post-legislative scrutiny processes. But we will, of course, see this as a more regular feature going forward.

Health and Social Care Bill

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Monday 19th March 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wilson of Dinton]

I add my support to what the noble Lord, Lord Fowler, and others who have spoken against the Motion said. I am deeply concerned about the implications of the Motion for the Civil Service.

Every day in government, Ministers consider policy issues and depend on the Civil Service for advice. Anyone who has been a Minister understands the private space in which civil servants give their best advice. There is a major public interest in advice being given without fear of it becoming part of the political arena, in the press or in Parliament. If risk registers are published, the very act of publishing them will draw them into the public arena and politicise the advice. This is not about lying, or about being dishonest in any way, but the duty of civil servants is to the Ministers they serve and to the Government of the day. They have a job to do and they must do it to the best of their ability, but they must do it in a way that does not cause difficulty for the Government.

It is in all our interests that risk registers are honest and look at the worst case, and put it in terms that leave the Minister in no doubt about the risks that are being taken. If those documents are going to appear in the public arena, they are bound to be sanitised in some form. Advice will either be put in a way that does not fully expose the dangers, or worse still it will not be given. There is a real risk that important advice will be driven off the paper into oral remarks, which are not what the Minister needs. The Minister needs a document that he or she can read after the meeting, and ponder and mull in the stillness of their own room. If we push these documents into the political debate, we will lose a crucial part of the role of the Civil Service. If we do it a lot, over time there is a real risk that Ministers will want around them civil servants who are themselves political, because they have become part of the political debate.

This is a very dangerous pressure to put on the constitution. I understand the worries about the Bill, but this is not the right way to attack it. It would be a dreadful mistake if this House were, in the heat of the moment, to set a precedent that affected the Civil Service in its ability to serve the Government of the day.

Across all parties there is an understanding about the need to observe the conventions under which the Civil Service operates. I appeal to the House not to add its weight to this issue of the risk register in a way that might do damage, because the damage would be not only to this Bill and this department. Whitehall is watching; it is really concerned about this issue, and if this goes the wrong way it will have implications and reverberations across government in ways that I am sure this House would not want. I urge the House not to support the Motion.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

Would the noble Lord share with the House his view as to what weight should be attached to the Information Commissioner’s judgment on this particular risk register? Is it his view, in the light of his remarks, that the views of the Information Commissioner should be ignored, overridden, or appealed on to the point at which they are no longer relevant? That appears to be the course of action the Government are now trying to take.

[Lord Wilson of Dinton]

It is not for me to advise the Government on what to do, but I hope they will appeal, because the issue involved is of huge importance. I read the Information Commissioner’s first judgment and I do not find it satisfactory. It is written in a way that suggests that it does not understand the issues in government. I think the issue at stake is of sufficient importance for the Government to fight its corner, and for this House not to add its weight to it.

[Baroness Murphy]

My Lords, I declare that I am a member of the British Medical Association and a fellow of the Royal College of Psychiatrists.

The risk register is a complete red herring and we all know that this is an attempt to delay the implementation of the policies in the Bill. The Bill has received extraordinarily careful scrutiny. In fact, it has received better scrutiny and a warmer response from government Ministers in addressing amendments proposed by all sides of the House than any Bill with which I have been associated in the past eight years. At the moment, I can think of nothing worse for the National Health Service than to have these policies delayed yet again by further uncertainty and greater procrastination.

The risk register saga was so obviously a political ruse from the beginning that I did not even bother to speak on it when it was first introduced. It was so obviously a red herring, produced for the benefit of the House to debate a slowing down of the Bill, that it was not worth addressing.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

Would the noble Baroness explain to the House whether it is her view that the Information Commissioner has deliberately delayed the progress of the Bill? That seems to be the implication of her remarks.

[Baroness Murphy]

That is not the implication of my remarks at all. The Information Commissioner has not released his full judgment and will not release his reasons for some time, so we cannot debate that.

This comes back to what my noble friends Lord Birt and Lord Wilson and the noble Lord, Lord Fowler, said about what these risk registers contain. I know very well because I have written risk registers for the National Health Service. I have sat down with my chief executive, and with my chairman when I was a chief executive, and we have written these things for public consumption. The Cabinet Office has a very nice risk register, but it is for public consumption; it is not to do with the private discussions between senior civil servants or advisers. I have worked as an adviser at the Department of Health, and this is not the kind of thing that comes up in conversations between Ministers where you want to be really frank.

We now have an out of date, almost two years’ old risk register that will not be relevant to the passage of the Bill. We have assessed the detailed risks of the Bill better in this House than in any other forum I can imagine. Those who have sat through the progress of the Bill, line by line and word by word, know very well that we have improved it. I am sure there are areas that many of us would still like addressed, but for all kinds of reasons we are not able to do so. I beg the House not to delay the Bill. If we delay it further we will have no guarantee that we will be able to get it through before Prorogation. I see this simply as a ruse not to implement these polices. We would gravely let down the National Health Service by not implementing them, and I urge noble Lords not to support the Motion of the noble Lord, Lord Owen.

Health: Smear Tests

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Monday 13th February 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

Following that question, will the Minister tell the House how widespread uptake is and to what extent there is any difference between the various groups of young people in being prepared to take up the offer of vaccination? This is clearly the best hope that we have of bringing down the incidence of cervical cancer in the long term.

[Earl Howe]

The latest figure I have is that there is around 82 per cent uptake among eligible girls. However, for screening the uptake is lower. The figure I have for 2010-11 is that 78.6 per cent of eligible women had a test result in the past five years and 3.4 million women were screened. In the case of screening, it depends on whether the women themselves respond to the screening call. In the case of vaccination, it will depend on the attitude of parents and medical advisers.

Health and Social Care Bill

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Thursday 15th December 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Crosby]

I beg leave to withdraw my amendment, with the simple comment that I thought the reply of the Minister—which was, as usual, very well argued—strengthened the case for both of my amendments even more than I had thought before, and I am grateful for that. Strong leadership, as the Public Accounts Committee calls for, was exemplified by the Minister but should include the Secretary of State. However, may I now move on to the next group?

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall)]

If the noble Baroness would indicate what she wishes to do with Amendment 296, that would be helpful.

[Baroness Williams of Crosby]

I apologise. I thought I had begun by saying that I would withdraw the amendment and then made some remarks afterwards.

Smoking

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Thursday 8th September 2011 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I do not agree with the noble Lord’s analysis. It is true that, on current evidence, the legislation is having a beneficial effect; I would not dissent from that. However, we know that voluntary behaviour change is eminently possible. It would explain why, between 1996 and 2007 when the legislation came in, secondhand smoking exposure in children in England declined by 70 per cent. That was driven by not only the evidence but also awareness campaigns and increased awareness in the lead-up to the legislation. Therefore, voluntary action can have a beneficial and marked effect.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

My Lords, since the Minister mentioned enforcement, I wonder whether he would like to comment on the issue more generally. I take the point of my noble friend Lord Foulkes about road safety issues that arise from smoking in cars, as well as health issues. Is the Minister content that enough is being done to enforce restrictions that are already in place, for example on the use of mobile phones in cars? Is it not the case that the burden of enforcement always will fall mostly on the police, and that they are unlikely to be able to carry out those duties very effectively when they are under such pressure to cut their numbers?

[Earl Howe]

The noble Baroness makes a very good point. Currently, enforcement in the hands of the police centres mainly on dangerous driving. That may take the form of people illegally using mobile phones while driving or perhaps smoking in a dangerous way. However, I take her point that there is a limit on the extent to which the police can be expected to extend their remit. There is also a sensitivity in this area. The idea of police stopping a car in which somebody in the front seat is smoking on suspicion that there might be a child inside may stray over the boundary of what society would consider an acceptable use of police time.

Health: HIV/AIDS

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Monday 5th September 2011 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My noble friend makes a serious point. This is not a subject on which I or, as far as I know, the Government have a fixed view, but I will ensure that her question is fed into our deliberations on the sexual health framework document.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

My Lords, as a member of the committee of the noble Lord, Lord Fowler, I ask the Minister if he agrees that the contribution made by the voluntary sector to the effort both to prevent and to inform about AIDS is very significant. It is particularly important in the combating of stigma, which, as he will be aware, is a tremendous impediment to the good take-up of treatment and testing. Will he reassure the House that funding to the voluntary organisations that are most involved in HIV/AIDS will not be affected by the cuts that are currently being undertaken?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I readily join the noble Baroness in paying tribute to those voluntary organisations, not least the Terrence Higgins Trust, which over the past 10 years has done a great job in leading the department’s national programme of work—we believe that that has contributed in a major way to the increased uptake of testing in clinics—while for African communities the African Health Policy Network has managed the department’s national programme, working with community-based groups in a very positive way. Those two groups in particular are being funded this year. No decisions have been made about next year because a tendering process will apply, but this work needs to continue in some form.