Home Education (Duty of Local Authorities) Bill [HL]

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Friday 27th April 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lucas]

My Lords, the amendments in this group are an attempt to show the Government that this is a Bill they can use to get a grip on settings in which education is provided. We seem to have a considerable range of problems, particularly with regard to radicalisation and the failure to educate people fully and in citizenship in some of the settings that our young people are allowed to attend. It seems that we do not have the power or the ability to deal with that effectively. This group of amendments is very much directed at showing the Government that this is a Bill they can use to achieve that. I will leave it at that. I beg to move.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall) (Lab)]

My Lords, if Amendment 12 is agreed to, there will be consequential arrangements in respect of Amendment 13.

[Lord Lucas]

My Lords, I think we are a long way short of having time problems—we have 45 minutes for the last group.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees]

I apologise to the Committee. I should have made it clear that if Amendment 23, which is currently being debated, is agreed to, I will not be able to call the following three amendments, Amendments 24, 25 and 26, by reason of pre-emption.

[Lord Addington]

Perhaps I may respond to that. Although I am severely tempted, I shall not call a Division now. If we put in “an appropriate education” we will cover these points. It will be a building block. If we put it in as an absolute—“must”, “shall”, “will”, whatever you want—we will be dancing on the head of a pin. It depends on the context in which you take it. We know that because we have all done it. I have had 30 years of playing with those words. If we do that and keep in the age-related provision—even if we put caveats after it—we will still have the initial provision, which means you will have to have discussions on it.

The Minister is studiously looking at a piece of paper but perhaps I may ask him whether we have a legal definition of ability and—I am looking for the Bill; it is nice to know that long sight comes to rival dyslexia in my life—aptitude. He says that they are important but I do not think aptitude can come in if you have not had a proper assessment in the first place. You cannot assess aptitude if you do not have the right range of environment to find out what it is.

There are all sorts of problems here. If you have another form of words you do not need those three provisions in the clause because the number of people affected by it—20% of the population have special educational needs but you can probably double that for this group to 40%, or maybe only 30%—is enough to colour this legislation’s effectiveness unless there is something in there to say that you are not going to place this stress on them. Dyslexics are the biggest although not the only group—they are not the only pattern but they are the most commonly occurring pattern—and, unless we deal with this issue, the legislation will fail a large group of its clientele. We cannot have that. Other forms of words can go in such as an “appropriate education”.

If there is an appeal, the group that will have the most problems dealing with it will probably be the dyslexics and—guess what?—it runs in families. We will be creating more problems than we need. Just change that and make sure that it is done. I hope the Minister will give us guidance that the Government will not look unfavourably on this. If we do not change this it will create more problems than we need to have. Perhaps the Minister and the noble Lord, Lord Soley, will have something more positive to say on that comment.

Schools: Music

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Wednesday 7th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Agnew of Oulton]

To reassure the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, I will be happy to meet with him and colleagues from this Chamber to discuss the matter further. However, there is no evidence that arts subjects have declined as a result of the introduction of the EBacc. Indeed, the proportion of time spent studying music has remained broadly stable since 2010. Since the EBacc was announced, the proportion of pupils in state-funded schools taking at least one arts subject has also remained stable. I have a very strong personal commitment to music. My own father was cured of a debilitating stammer through learning to sing and so breathe properly. I am doing everything I can to encourage music in the system.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, I am very interested in what the Minister just said about his own family experience. While I fully accept that there is an issue about the academic study of music in schools, music also makes an important contribution to the health of schools as communities. As there is so much concern at the moment about child and adolescent mental health, would he accept that it is important that there are opportunities in schools for children to participate in music for the therapeutic and social benefits it conveys, and that that is particularly true of performing music in groups?

[Lord Agnew of Oulton]

I agree with the noble Baroness entirely. Some case studies that I pulled in ahead of this Question bear out what she said. In my own academy trust, the Inspiration Trust, I appointed a director of music just before I took on this role, and I asked him to give me his early feedback—he started only in September. He said: “On listening and music appreciation, the pupils find listening easier and can listen for longer; pupils more readily try new things. Improved multitasking skills: pupils react, listen, move, hum along to music while focused on their main task”. With regard to extracurricular ensemble, he talks about pupils being better able to understand commitment, time management, perseverance and co-operation. So I completely agree with the noble Baroness.

Education and Society

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Friday 8th December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, I join everyone else by thanking the most reverend Primate for securing this debate and for introducing it in a way which was stimulating and challenging. He set a very high bar for the rest of us.

Like the noble Lord, Lord Baker, my own early education was in a Church of England village primary school. Although I am of no settled faith now, I acknowledge the huge debt that I owe to my early introduction to the Bible—the King James version, Old and New Testaments—and to the liturgy of the English Church as expressed in the Book of Common Prayer. I am still strongly attached to them both, albeit by what one might call more aesthetic than theological ties. From them, I got most of what I needed to gain access to the huge treasury of art, music, drama and literature produced as part of, or in response to, 2,000 years of Christian belief and practice—and out of that, I got a wonderful career so I have much to be grateful for, unbeliever though I be.

I want to raise one matter, which many other noble Lords have touched on, about the relationship between education and democracy. We live in dangerous times: democracy is threatened everywhere, sometimes physically but, more seriously, intellectually and emotionally. If we believe along with Churchill, as I do, that democracy is not perfect or all-wise but that it is none the less preferable to all other forms of government that have been tried, then we must defend it and our first line of defence is the education of our children. As I have said before in your Lordships’ House, I believe our definition of education as expressed through what we expect our schools to provide has become far too narrow, focused far too much on examinations and therefore on formulaic teaching to the test. I mean no disrespect to teachers when I say that—I had better not, because my family is full of them. Education has become far too concerned with asserting the need for a direct connection between educational inputs and jobs.

Education, as the most reverend Primate and others have said, is not just about knowing stuff. It is also about thinking and feeling stuff. As the noble Baroness, Lady Neuberger, so eloquently put it, it is about emotional literacy, which is about understanding how others think and feel. It is about learning to deal with complexity, ambiguity, contradiction and the frequent absence of right answers. Now all our young people also have to deal with a daily avalanche of unmediated information—the most reverend Primate referred to unguided and competing values and narratives—which comes at them via the internet. In other words, education is about the exercise of judgment, critical thinking and empathy. These are all vital to exercising our democratic rights as citizens responsibly, as well as—and not instead of—knowing our times tables, how to create an algorithm and how to spell “algorithm”.

The responsibility for ensuring this breadth cannot just lie with schools; they need support. Here comes the stuck record bit in relation to other interventions I have made in your Lordships’ House. The study of the arts provides matchless opportunities to develop these capabilities. The dramatisation of human dilemmas and aspirations helps us to understand them. Shakespeare is a great way to start learning about human beings: metaphor, allegory and characterisation in fiction help us to grasp the wide differences between people and to tolerate those differences. Participating in music, particularly by singing in choirs as I do, teaches us that there is, as they say, no I in team.

The UK has many wonderful cultural organisations large and small, national, regional and local. Most are already contributing widely to the education of the next generation of citizens through their core work and through a variety of imaginative collaborations with schools and communities, especially in disadvantaged areas. I refer in passing to my connection to the Royal Shakespeare Company. It has done excellent work recently in Blackpool, which was mentioned as one of those most deprived areas.

I would also like to mention the excellent work of the Chickenshed theatre in north London where my nine year-old granddaughter is currently appearing in its extremely professional—I mean professional in the very best sense—Christmas show in which she is appearing on stage with children in wheelchairs, children who have learning disabilities and children who have Down’s syndrome and with every other kind of human being you can think of, old and young. What is she learning from that? She is learning a great deal.

Schools are able to participate in partnerships that these organisations offer them, and they value them enormously. Evidence shows that they have a beneficial effect on all aspects of learning, but school leaders are often confused by mixed messages from government about the value of cultural education and they struggle more and more with budgetary constraints, as do the arts organisations themselves. We are missing a trick here, and in doing so we are contributing to the weakening of our democratic values. Please will the Government take the lessons of this debate seriously?

Young People: Digital Resilience

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Tuesday 7th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Agnew of Oulton]

My Lords, we have just published an internet safety strategy Green Paper. Initially, we are asking, on a voluntary basis, for a code of practice, as required by the Digital Economy Act. We will certainly look at the points the noble Lord has raised.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, if I am not mistaken, this is the Minister’s first appearance at the Dispatch Box. I think we should welcome him and congratulate him on his appointment. Understandably, there is a great deal of focus on online issues —online bullying is a significant problem. However, offline bullying is also a significant problem. From personal experience, schools struggle to deal with that, partly because it is very hard for them to find the resources—over and above everything else they are required to do in the way of safeguarding—and to pay proper, detailed attention to both the sources and the effects of bullying in playgrounds, for example. Can the Minister say what more the Government can do to strengthen schools’ ability to deal with this problem?

[Lord Agnew of Oulton]

The Government want to help schools to deliver high-quality relationships education, ensuring that pupils are taught about healthy and respectful relationships. Of course, bullying is very much part of that, and it goes beyond online bullying. Schools are very aware of the problems and, having seen it at first hand, I agree with the noble Baroness.

English Baccalaureate: Creative and Technical Subjects

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Thursday 14th September 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, like most people speaking in this debate, I have form on this subject. We were warned by the noble Baroness, Lady Stedman-Scott, to try and avoid the dangers of repetition but I fear that that is inevitable and some things bear repeating. I congratulate and support the noble Baroness in bringing forward this important debate. I also express the hope that the Government, having unaccountably ignored my attempts to convince them up to now, will find some of the arguments put forward today more compelling coming from a distinguished member of their own Benches.

The noble Baroness focused her attention on the 14 to 19 curriculum and the EBacc. I agree with pretty much everything she said and with a great deal of what was said by other noble Lords. I hope the House will forgive me if I take the opportunity of the debate to look a little more widely, as the issues the noble Baroness and others identify stem from a broader problem that affects the whole school system: primary and secondary, not just 14 to 19. That problem is the consistent failure on the part of Governments for at least 20 years—obviously, I am not making a party-political point, although it has got a lot worse in the last few years—properly to grasp the value and significance of arts education, cultural and creative.

This has little if anything to do with the personal convictions of individual Ministers, many of whom over the years, including the noble Lord replying to this debate, have often been anxious to stress how much importance they attach to cultural studies. It has to do with policy and with a growing emphasis on education as a largely utilitarian process: information in, jobs out—not quite Gradgrind but uncomfortably close. This process was eloquently described by, among others, my noble friend Lord Knight and by the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty. A very experienced education practitioner of my acquaintance said to me only yesterday, “We have forgotten what education is for and that is bad for democracy”. That is an important point. When people are stuffed with information but do not have their imaginative and critical capacities enhanced to the same extent, they will not be able to make the kind of nuanced choices that a mature democracy requires of each and every one of us. We can see some of the effects of that before us right at this moment. That is deeply regrettable because ultimately, this undermines fair access to cultural capital, which, as we all know, is a crucial asset for young people to acquire if social mobility—mentioned before in this debate—is to have any meaning at all.

As an example, I refer briefly to my own grandchildren, who are currently at a maintained primary school in London. It is a perfectly all right school, there is nothing wrong with it at all, but it has limited access to music, drama or any other arts-based opportunities to offer its pupils. My granddaughter, who is nine, is an inexpert and not altogether always enthusiastic trumpet player. It is quite hard to persuade her to do her practice—this will be familiar to many noble Lords. This summer, she had the opportunity to spend a week at a brass academy at which pupils ranged from her at the bottom end on grade 1, right through to those about to go to conservatoires. She spent a week among these people and came away probably a slightly better trumpet player. What she certainly came away with was an experience that she really found, in her little way, life-changing. She learned, first, the real merits of working hard at something and getting better and, secondly, the merits of teamwork: working together in a band—literally a band—towards an aim. The aim was to produce a concert at the end of the week, which they did. Unfortunately I was not there, but I have seen the video and there at the back is this little girl, not a very good trumpet player but my goodness me, she is participating. She did not learn from that that she will have a career as a musician—she almost certainly will not—but she did learn an enormous amount that she will now feed back into the school community of which she is part.

Her brother is a keen footballer and gets a lot of the same things out of playing football. He also plays the piano because his parents understand the value of all of that being on offer to their children. They are not wealthy parents: one is a teacher, the other a performer—you can do the maths yourselves. However, they understand that importance. Not all children get this advantage from home. It is not just about money but about understanding how important it is for children to have these experiences. Schools should be able to reinforce that understanding and fill the gap where necessary, but they do not get the right level of encouragement to do so. Often, they would like to do more, as the unmet need for what the Royal Shakespeare Company’s associate schools programme can provide demonstrates, for example. I declare an interest as a member of the board of the Royal Shakespeare Company.

If you glance at any school prospectus, it will be full of lovely photographs. Are they of children taking exams? No, they are very often of a school orchestra—if there is one—a school play or some sporting achievement. Schools know what makes their offer attractive. Arts-based education is much more than just a nice-to-have extra. It enhances cultural capital and develops flexible, marketable skills such as those already mentioned: empathy, resilience and an ability to adapt. As already mentioned, there is a huge and diverse range of job opportunities available in the creative industries, which is a successful and growing part of our economy.

The inclusion of arts subjects in EBacc is important for its own sake and for the reasons amply demonstrated by the noble Baroness, Lady Stedman-Scott, and others. Should it come about, it would also exemplify a commitment from the Government to make clear the vital role arts subjects play in a fully rounded education at every level, from reception to A-level. Will the Minister commit to a simple first step by requiring Ofsted to withhold “outstanding” status from any school that does not provide a full range of creative opportunities, no matter how excellent other aspects of its provision may be? This really matters. The Government should say so unambiguously and make it stick.

Children in Need

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Monday 17th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Nash]

I had better write to my noble friend on the definition of “children in need” as it is quite long and I do not want to take up noble Lords’ time. However, it should apply to all children equally.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord to go back to the answer that he gave on local authority funding? He made the assertion that it was clear that local authorities were making this issue a priority as they were spending more money on it. That may or may not be true, but what is important is how many children they are having to spend the money on. Can he tell the House what the increase was in numbers of children in care or needing local authority support over that period?

[Lord Nash]

The noble Baroness raises a very good point. The number of children in need during that period remained fairly constant. We are doing a great deal of work reforming social care to try to ensure that the money is better spent.

Education: English Baccalaureate

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Monday 3rd July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Nash]

I refer to my previous remarks about the take-up of computer science and the dramatic increase in the number of pupils taking IT. Of course, we must always remember the very low base that we had in 2010 when only one in five pupils was taking a core suite of academic subjects, which we know are so essential particularly for those from a disadvantaged background. I think that we should all be extremely pleased that we have actually doubled the percentage, which is rendering our education provision much more fit for pupils, particularly for pupils from a disadvantaged background.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, can the Minister please explain the remarks he made in answer to the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty? I believe he said that the loss of entries into the creative subjects is more than made up for by an increased number of entries for IT and computer science. Can he explain in what way those things compensate for one another?

[Lord Nash]

Numerically. I think we all know that the quality of some of these subjects was not what it might be, and that quite a few people were taking some of them not because they suited them but because they were easier. Of course all schools teach many of these subjects, although it may not necessarily lead to exams, and of course all schools have to provide a broad and balanced curriculum—something which the new chief inspector seems to be particularly focused on, which I am very pleased to see.

National Funding Formulae for Schools and High Needs

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Wednesday 14th December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Nash]

I am very grateful to the noble Lord for the sense of realism that he brings to the debate. I entirely agree with the point about focusing on areas with financial need; that is why we have developed these opportunity areas, and our regional schools commissioners are particularly focused on areas, many of which are up north, where a particular improvement in education is required.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister in his reply to the noble Lord, Lord Storey, gave a rather perfunctory response, if I can be forgiven for saying so, to his question about differential statements at different stages in the educational system. Speaking personally, I have not yet fully understood the rationale behind this. Could he give us a little more clarity on that, please?

[Lord Nash]

I invite the noble Baroness to submit any thoughts to the consultation process. As I say, the details of the impact that the formula will have on all schools one by one will be available later today and all schools can look at it, but the net effect is that most schools will have a gain and none will lose more than 3%. As I said, small rural schools will gain on average over 5%, and they are the sort of schools that particularly struggle with some of the issues that have been mentioned.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Nash]

It will be entirely possible for anybody to make any representations in the consultation, and maybe the noble Baroness would like to do so in that respect.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall]

My Lords, I am sorry to take the time of the House, but I am not sure that I made myself clear with my first question. It appeared to me, from what the Minister said in the Statement, that he was suggesting—indeed, he confirmed it to the noble Lord, Lord Storey—that the amount of money per pupil would be different for children at an early stage in the education cycle, with smaller amounts being available for nursery school children, for example, to that available for pupils in sixth form. Given the amount of attention given by research lately to the importance of early years education, that seems an extraordinarily surprising decision for the Government to have taken. Could the Minister help us to understand it a bit better?

[Lord Nash]

We take the view that there are additional costs in secondary over primary and that they increase as one moves from key stage 3 to key stage 4. There will be three bands: key stages 1 and 2; key stage 3; and key stage 4.

Grammar Schools

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Thursday 13th October 2016 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Andrews, for securing this debate on the important matter of selection in education. I acknowledge that this is an issue about which noble Lords feel passionately and on which opposing beliefs are strongly held. The noble Baroness herself set this tone at the outset. I hope that I can provide some balance to the debate as others have done—in particular, my noble friends Lord Cormack and Lord Framlingham. I am aware that this House is privileged to have many distinguished and experienced educationalists contribute to the debate.

As noble Lords will know, and as was mentioned earlier, we are facing great change as a nation as we prepare to leave the European Union—a change that will require us to define an ambitious new role for ourselves in the world. Rather than these proposals being a diversion, as the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, said, or a distraction, as the noble Lord, Lord Liddle, said, I believe that this is the very time we should be seeking to make these changes. In doing so, we need to consider what our place and role should be on the world stage, and how we can best develop our home-grown talent and skills to their full potential to ensure that we can truly compete as a global trading nation.

Those points were raised by my noble friend Lady Vere of Norbiton in her excellent and well-considered maiden speech. Her arguments set out the questions that are at the heart of our consultation and Green Paper, and indeed this debate. She alluded not only to those questions but to the bigger picture and, as I said, our place in the world.

We are required to build a school system which works for everyone and ensures that every child has access to a good school place, regardless of their background, and that education provision caters to the individual needs and abilities of each child. To that extent, I believe that the whole House agrees with me. It is therefore right that we should ensure that each child can go as far as their talent and hard work can take them.

When we look at the global landscape, we see that some of the highest-performing countries have highly selective systems, including the Netherlands, Singapore, Hong Kong and Japan. Indeed, some of those countries were mentioned by the noble Baroness, Lady Andrews. Although, as she and the noble Baroness, Lady Humphreys, said, the OECD’s 2012 PISA concluded no direct link, we should not ignore the fact that the majority of countries performing above England in the international student assessment have a more selective secondary system. It is therefore right that we should question the status quo, as we have done in our Green Paper.

Our education reforms over the past six years have already seen us make great strides in this regard, with the provision of many more good school places. There are now over 1.4 million more children in good or outstanding school places compared with 2010, and a further £7 billion is being invested over the course of this Parliament to deliver new school places. We have also seen more control placed back in the hands of parents and head teachers; a renewed focus on learning the basics in primary school; and initiatives to help young people pursue a strong academic core of subjects at secondary level, ensuring that every child has the key knowledge and skills for later life.

As has been mentioned, teaching also continues to remain a popular and rewarding career. We have record numbers of teachers now entering the profession, with 15,000 more teachers in our classrooms than in 2010. Teacher retention continues to be stable, as it has been for the past 20 years, with three-quarters still teaching in the state-funded sector three years after qualifying.

However, I am sure the House will agree there is still a long way to go. For far too many children in England, a good school still remains out of reach. As my noble friend Lord Framlingham said, 1.25 million children are attending primary and secondary schools in England rated as requiring improvement or inadequate. For some regions this is the case for over a fifth of pupils.

At the same time, demographic pressure for good school places is increasing, so we cannot afford to ignore or shy away from this issue. Doing nothing is not an option. We need to radically expand the number of good school places available to all families, not just for those who can afford to move into the catchment areas of the best state school, or to send their children to private school or to pay for private tuition, as mentioned. Access to good and outstanding schools should no longer be based on a postcode lottery, or whether you are wealthy enough to move or afford tuition. Every child should be able to access good school places and to go as far as their talents will take them, irrespective of their background.

The time has come to tackle the remaining inequalities in the system. Statistics show that those who attend state schools are still less likely to reach the top professions than those from independent schools, which make up only 7% of the population. We must continue to strive to break the link between future career and family background.

Let me be very clear. This is not to say that our existing schools are not already making great progress here. We have more than 6 million children in either good or outstanding places. Indeed, we should also trumpet the good work of our comprehensives—75% are rated good or outstanding. The noble Baroness, Lady Humphreys, spoke passionately about the experience in Wales. But we have to admit that inequalities persist, particularly for families that are less well off.

We believe there is therefore a strong argument for giving all schools—including selective schools that have a strong track record, experience and valuable expertise—the right incentives to expand their offer to even more pupils. This is why our proposals seek to ensure that universities and independent schools, as well as selective schools, play a full part in raising standards across the whole system. But this is part of a wider education strategy that will ensure that the education system addresses the individual needs and talent of each child, from their early years, through primary and secondary schools, to university and the workplace.

I know that the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, spoke passionately about the inequality that can be created by selection in education, but I can assure her that under our wider education policies, this issue will be addressed in terms of the disadvantages children can experience before the age of 11. That is why total government spending on early years is increasing from £5 billion in 2015-16 to £6 billion in 2019-20. Selective schools will also be required to support primary schools and help them to increase access for disadvantaged pupils.

However, we accept that grammar schools as they currently operate admit too few disadvantaged pupils. Again, points have been made in the debate that they could do more to raise standards for all pupils in the areas in which they are based. That is why our proposals will ask them to do more. Some schools are already showing how this can be done. For example, the five Schools of King Edward VI in Birmingham, which run the Opening Doors campaign to challenge preconceptions about a grammar school environment, have made changes to their admission arrangements to prioritise pupil premium pupils, and expanded by 20% to enable more bright children from less-privileged backgrounds to join the school. Secondly, the Wallington County Grammar School in Sutton is seeking to share its expertise to drive up standards more widely through the opening of a new mixed non-selective school, due to open in 2018, and its existing sponsorship and outreach work with local primary schools.

I can assure the noble Baroness, Lady Humphreys, and other noble Lords who have spoken that we are not proposing a return to the old binary system of grammar schools and secondary moderns. “No return to the past”, said my noble friend Lord Framlingham, and he is right. We are instead proposing additional selective schools within a system where more children than ever before already attend a good or outstanding school, so that there is a choice between good selective education and good non-selective education.

In answer to the concerns raised by the noble Lord, Lord Puttnam, we are not proposing to impose grammar schools on communities that do not want them. The Secretary of State will take account of their impact on local communities when considering whether to approve them.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

I am sorry to interrupt the Minister, but could he just explain how it could possibly be, were a selective school to set up in an area that has a successful comprehensive school and therefore take away from that school the most able pupils it has been able to attract up until then, that the character of that comprehensive school will not be affected? I do not see, and I do not think anyone else sees, how that would be possible.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

I might have expected the noble Baroness to raise that point, but first, it may not be right that a new selective school is set up there anyway. We need to lower the temperature on this. If it is the case, the whole point is that the selective schools will be used, where appropriate, to help raise the standards in non-selective schools. It is upping the ante and raising up to the higher level.

School Census: Pupils’ Nationality

Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall Excerpts

Wednesday 12th October 2016 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

I will need to confirm those exact figures to my noble friend in writing, but I suspect that that is the case. That lies behind the need to ensure that we look after those pupils effectively and support the teaching profession, which often has to deal with a range of nationalities in the classroom, with all the challenges that that brings.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, the noble Lord carefully said “may” in respect of these children’s potential to require special support. There is another way to look at this, which is that a lot of children of foreign nationals are extremely well able to take advantage of the education being offered to them here—for example, many of them are bilingual, which is helpful to them and their peers. Does he not agree that even an appearance of an us-and-them way of segregating different kinds of children within our schools is really unhelpful at this time? Whether or not the information is being used appropriately, it gives a most unfortunate impression.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

I have to disagree with the noble Baroness, because we believe that adding items on nationality and country of birth as well as English proficiency will be helpful and will be used better to understand how children perform, whether they are bilingual or whether they have come with English as an additional language. It is right and proper that we introduce this assessment; it better enables us to monitor immigration issues within this country.