Nurseries and Schools: Protection from Terrorism

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

Thursday 8th February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper and I refer to my interests in policing and security as set out in the register.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, schools and nurseries have a legal responsibility to ensure that staff and pupils are safe, including in the event of a terrorist attack. The Government provide a range of advice to help them fulfil their responsibilities. The National Counter Terrorism Security Office also provides specialist advice on staying safe in the event of an attack, including tailored advice for education establishments, which schools and nurseries are able to draw upon.

[Lord Harris of Haringey]

My Lords, not for the first time I think that the Minister has drawn the short straw on the Government Front Bench, in that this is really a Question on what the Department for Education is doing about this. Two years ago I made a recommendation that every school governing body should appoint one of their members to take a lead in overseeing work on security and protecting pupils in the event of some attack of this nature. The Department for Education’s response was to say, no, it would leave it to individual schools. That response was then criticised by the head teachers’ associations which said they would welcome such general guidance. Will the Minister talk to her colleagues in the Department for Education so that it actually provides some guidance and a framework for schools to protect children in the event of such an attack?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I am very aware of the noble Lord’s advice and recommendations on governing bodies and a single person on a governing body. Governing bodies have to make a judgment as a whole on the health, safety and protective measures that they need to put in their schools. As for guidance, clearly the last year has been unprecedented in terms of security generally and our schools are no less vulnerable. The DfE is currently reviewing its health, safety and school security advice, giving consideration to how guidance material can improve advice that is given to schools.

[Lord Paddick (LD)]

My Lords, the matter that the noble Lord, Lord Harris of Haringey, is referring to is recommendation 121 of his comprehensive report about London’s preparedness to deal with terrorism. Recommendation 11 of that report states that it is essential that UK policing is able to maintain the required international arrangements that currently work to keep us safe. There is no precedent for a non-EU country that is outside Schengen to have access to the essential intelligence databases SIS II and ECRIS, and the European Commission has said that a non-member state cannot have the same rights as a member state. Does the Minister accept that whatever the desired outcomes, we are likely to be less safe if we leave the EU? It is about not what everybody wants but what is legally possible.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

In terms of London’s preparedness, the noble Lord will know that there has been quite an uplift in the CT policing budget. In terms of the EU, he will also know through the various debates we have had that the UK has been a leader in work across Europe in law enforcement and counterterrorism data sharing. We have had the pleasurable experience of the passage of the Data Protection Bill, during which law enforcement and other matters were discussed. We very much want to continue that to the extent that we have put the law enforcement directive into UK law.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

Does the Minister agree that the threat is less a general one than a specific one targeted against various minority communities, particularly the Jewish minority? Is she satisfied that the Government have sufficiently close consultation with the Jewish community in this country, particularly in London, to prevent attacks?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The Government liaise closely with the Jewish community, in particular with the CST. All Jewish schools have security protective mechanisms, following some of the terrorist threats in Europe. I commend the CST for the work it does not only for the Jewish community but for the broader community.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, are the Government aware that the National Police Chiefs’ Council has estimated that only 8.6% of the tip-offs to the police and the Prevent programme come from within our Muslim communities? What are the Government doing to encourage those close-knit communities to do much more to expose their violent co-religionists before they strike?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, the Muslim community is as anxious to prevent terrorist attacks as any other community. The Question relates to schools. Parents in the Muslim community do not want their children radicalised any more than we do.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, will the Minister tell the House what specific work the Government have done with head teachers and governors over the past year? As she said, the situation has been unprecedented.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

It has been—the noble Lord is right to point that out. DfE is working with the National Counter Terrorism Security Office and has had expert advice from the counterterrorism policing unit. As I said earlier, it is reviewing its guidance on preparedness, security measures and vulnerability to attack.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, might it not be better if the noble Lord, Lord Pearson of Rannoch, concentrated on Brexit and left this delicate issue alone?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I think we concentrate a lot on Brexit these days in your Lordships’ House. The Question is important. Given the threats of the past year, it is important that we are all safe whether in our schools, our homes or our communities.

[Lord Reid of Cardowan (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that in the event—God forbid—of a terrorist attack on one of our schools, my noble friend Lord Harris’s recommendation 121 would be implemented within the week? Is it not better to concentrate on prevention rather than afterwards? At a time when it is obvious that the terrorists are now moving towards soft targets, schools are among the major soft targets that should be protected.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I could not disagree at all with the noble Lord when he says that we need to make sure our schools are protected. He will be aware, I am sure, of the Crowded Places Guidance that has come out. This is up to governing bodies. Of course the threat will feel different in different places, and we are updating our guidance on assisting schools. It would be a terrible thing if a school was subjected to a terrorist attack.

Brexit and the Labour Market (Economic Affairs Committee Report)

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

Thursday 8th February 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, I join other noble Lords in thanking my noble friend Lord Forsyth for bringing this debate to your Lordships’ House. It has been a very interesting debate and I shall endeavour to respond to as many questions as possible. At the outset, however, I will make a number of general remarks.

I thank the Economic Affairs Committee for its report, Brexit and the Labour Market, published last summer. The committee has done a great service by producing a thoughtful report which covers a number of key issues facing the Government as we prepare to leave the European Union. The Government produced a full response to the committee’s report in the autumn, in the form of a letter from the then Immigration Minister, Brandon Lewis. I do not intend to repeat everything that was said in that document.

The noble Lords, Lord Livermore and Lord Darling, and my noble friend Lord Forsyth, asked about the net migration target and talked about immigration concerns not recognising economic issues and the national interest. The Government are clear that there are many benefits to immigration: economic, social and cultural. The noble Lord, Lord Reid, pointed out those and also the subtleties beneath them. But we must not underestimate the legitimate and real concerns of the public about the impact of unrestricted immigration from the EU on jobs, wages and public services. These concerns were clearly expressed during the referendum campaign and it would be remiss of us to dismiss them or to suppose that we know better.

[Lord Reid of Cardowan]

I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. I understand her awareness of the concerns of the public. But about a year and a half ago I asked her if the Government distinguished between the free movement of people and the free movement of labour. In other words, there are already existing provisions under the European Union regulations which allow the Government to take steps if people come here but do not work. Why have the Government never used those regulations?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble Lord has a point—but nor did the previous Government use the regulations, and the concerns were growing at that time. But I take his point: perhaps we would be in a totally different place if successive Governments had looked at that.

On citizens’ rights, I begin by emphasising the significant contribution that EU citizens make to our national life and that we want them and their families to stay. The Government have been very clear since the start of negotiations with the EU that protecting the rights of EU citizens living here, together with the rights of UK nationals living in EU countries, was their first priority. We have now delivered on that commitment and have reached an agreement with our EU partners on citizens’ rights. The agreement will provide the millions of EU citizens living in the UK with certainty about their future rights and, most importantly, allows them and their families to stay. The noble Lord, Lord Livermore, said that the deal on citizens’ rights reached in December did not provide certainty. They will be able to continue to live their lives broadly as now. We greatly value their contribution to the UK and hope that they will choose to do so.

I turn now to what happens after the UK leaves the EU. Carefully controlled economic migration benefits our economy and has a hugely positive impact on the social and cultural fabric of the UK. With that in mind, we want to ensure that we strike a balance between attracting the right mix of skills to the UK and controlling immigration from the EU in the national interest. Let me be clear: the Government recognise the valuable economic, social and cultural contribution that migrants make, but we must ensure that we are able to control immigration in the national interest, as my noble friend Lord Suri said.

The noble Lords, Lord Lea, Lord Shipley and Lord Kennedy, and others talked about the consideration of the economy as a whole, different EU and non-EU sectors, and areas of the country with high and low skills. There is a real mix in there. I agree that we must consider the economy as a whole and not just EU migration. That is why we explicitly asked the Migration Advisory Committee to do just that. We must take a holistic view of the whole labour market, all parts of the UK including tourist areas, high and low skills, and all sectors of the economy. We will do just that.

I understand the committee’s concerns that we will need suitable time to implement the new immigration system. The Government recognise this and that is why the Prime Minister, in her Florence speech, set out a number of proposals for an implementation period which will allow a smooth transition and provide certainty for businesses. The noble Lord, Lord Livermore, also talked about that. During this period, access to one another’s markets should continue on current terms and people will be able to come to live and work in the UK. However, there will be a registration scheme, which is essential preparation for the future system. The Prime Minister set out that this points to an implementation period of around two years. She also made it clear that those arriving in this period will have different expectations about their ability to stay in the long term, as they will be arriving post Brexit.

I would like to reassure the committee on its recommendation that the Government should consult on the needs of business in any future immigration policy and ensure that businesses have access to the expertise and skills they need. The Government have always been very clear that we will make decisions about future arrangements following discussions with stakeholders, including with businesses and with the EU, and based on evidence.

The noble Lord, Lord Shipley, and my noble friend Lord Balfe talked about the important issue of protecting employment rights after the UK exits the European Union. The PM has been very clear that the Government will ensure that workers’ rights will be maintained after we leave the EU, and indeed enhanced. My noble friend Lord Balfe mentioned the specific issue of equal pay. The Equal Pay Act was of course brought in before the UK became a member of the EU, and we intend to honour and enforce that Act. It is particularly pertinent in this week of the 100-year anniversary of women’s suffrage and the Representation of the People Act that we have equal pay for equal work.

The noble Baroness, Lady Smith, asked when we will publish plans on the implementation period and whether it could be longer than two years. The PM proposed an implementation period of two years but we will keep that under review, not least as we discuss the implementation period with the EU. We will set out proposals for this period and future immigration arrangements over the coming months.

As my noble friend Lord Forsyth and other noble Lords pointed out, we have commissioned the independent Migration Advisory Committee—the MAC, as it is called—to report on the impact of the UK’s exit from the European Union. These recommendations will play a vital role when the Government make any final decisions on the future immigration system. The noble Lord, Lord Sharkey, asked when the MAC report would be published and whether there would be an interim report in September. The MAC is independent, so I cannot formally answer a question on its behalf about an ongoing study—but its reports are always published, including interim reports, and that is what I expect it will do.

I welcome the report’s suggestion that we should carry out a review and be satisfied about the administrative feasibility of a regional immigration system before we seek to implement one. The Government have been clear that we want an immigration system that takes into account the social and economic needs of all parts of the UK. However, it remains a reserved matter and we will consider the needs of the UK as a whole. As I have said before, we are consulting businesses, industry, trades unions and many others from across the UK to ensure that we can do this and that it will complement the MAC’s work. Indeed, the commission to the MAC explicitly asked us to include a consideration of impacts on different parts of the UK.

The noble Lord, Lord Sharkey, asked about the timing of a White Paper. Our first priority was to reach a deal on citizens’ rights, which we did in December, and our focus now is on getting the right deal for the implementation period immediately following the UK’s exit. We are considering a range of options for the future immigration system and we will set out initial plans in the coming months. We will of course consider how we can update the House as negotiations progress.

I am pleased that the committee welcome the Government’s new ambitious modern industrial strategy, which sets out a clear vision for driving an economy that works for everyone and recognises that building the conditions for a competitive, leading centre for innovation, excellence and talent means focusing on developing people and skills in the various sectors. That is why, among other things, we are committed to raising investment in research and development to 2.4% of GDP by 2027 and announcing £725 million in our new industrial strategy challenge fund programmes to drive innovation.

My noble friend Lord Horam made the point that the economy will need to adapt to less EU migration and referred to the importance of skills and training for UK citizens. I agree with his broad sentiments and his welcome for the Government’s strategy. We must continue to promote and develop our dynamic economy. His points about skills and training for UK citizens are important and that is why we continue to invest in schools, our world-class universities and vocational training such as apprenticeships, which are overwhelmingly working well, to ensure that our own citizens have maximum opportunities to develop their skills.

The noble Lord, Lord Sharkey, referred to T-levels and apprenticeships. There have been more than 1.2 million apprenticeship starts since 2015, providing more opportunities to people of all ages and from all backgrounds. We are ensuring that smaller employers understand the benefits of apprenticeship training for their businesses and we are encouraging them to take advantage of the support available. On T-levels, we launched a workplace pilot scheme in September 2017 to test different models and approaches, and this will include an evaluation organisation. The noble Lord criticised inadequate providers. It is important that provision is of the highest quality and seven out of 10 of our further education colleges have been graded as outstanding or good by Ofsted.

Most of the points made today were about the robustness of the migration statistics. These are published by the ONS, as noble Lords have pointed out, and it is confirmed that the international passenger survey continues to be the best source of information to measure long-term international migration. Additionally, the Home Office publishes a wide range of statistics on the control of immigration and is already working with the ONS to analyse the new exit check data and other sources to provide a better understanding of migrant flows.

My noble friend Lord Forsyth talked about the different statistics from different sources, even for the same sectors, and I am glad he recognises the steps that both the Government and the ONS are taking to improve data. It is a complex area and we continue to work on it. That is why we have commissioned the independent Migration Advisory Committee and we look forward to its report in the autumn.

A number of noble Lords referred to the quality of data. We will continue to work with the ONS to improve the quality of data and this will include a variety of data sources, including administrative data from government sources. The ONS is independent of government and it is right to ensure that the public can have confidence in the objectivity of the statistics. We should not underestimate the generally extremely high quality of ONS data.

The noble Lord, Lord Burns, talked about the net migration target/commitment. We are committed to reducing net migration to sustainable levels. Whether it is described as a target, aim, objective or commitment, it is clearly what we want to do to address people’s concerns about migration.

The noble Lord, Lord Darling, asked about Home Office capacity. The Home Office already issues millions of passports and other visas each year. I understand the concerns but we are working hard to improve services.

We have been clear about our commitment to reducing net migration but that does not detract from our determination to ensure that we remain an attractive option for those with the skills and expertise across all sectors of our economy and who play an invaluable role in making the United Kingdom better still.

I again thank my noble friend and all noble Lords who have participated in the debate.

Policing and Crime Act 2017 (Consequential Amendments) Regulations 2018

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

Wednesday 7th February 2018 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

That the draft Regulations laid before the House on 11 January be approved.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, I am sure that noble Lords will recall with fondness the debates we had on the Policing and Crime Bill last Session. The Bill received Royal Assent a little over a year ago, on 31 January 2017, and many of its provisions are already in force, with a number of further measures due to be implemented on 1 March or 1 April. These draft regulations support the implementation of the Act.

Noble Lords will recall that the Act contains several important reforms, a number of which are relevant to these draft regulations. Part 1 of the Act enhances the accountability arrangements for fire and rescue services in England. In London, this means abolishing the London Fire and Emergency Planning Authority and giving the Mayor of London direct responsibility for the fire and rescue service in the capital, with operational responsibility for the service being vested in the London Fire Commissioner. In the rest of England, the Act enables directly elected police and crime commissioners to take on the functions of fire and rescue authorities where a local case is made.

Part 2 of the Act strengthens public confidence and trust in the police by reforming and simplifying the police complaints and disciplinary systems. Part 3 enables chief constables to make more effective use of police staff and volunteers, freeing up police officers to focus on those tasks that need the core powers of a constable. Part 4 introduced important reforms to pre-charge bail, particularly to ensure that the arrangements for police bail properly balance the rights of individuals and the need to protect the wider public. Part 4 also closed gaps in police cross-border arrest powers, enabling a constable in one UK jurisdiction to arrest a person wanted in another jurisdiction without first having to obtain a warrant.

The 2017 Act gave effect to those reforms by amending key policing and fire enactments, including the Police Reform Act 2002 and the Fire and Rescue Services Act 2004. However, as is often the way, substantial consequential amendments to other enactments were also needed. While many of these were made in the Policing and Crime Act itself, we anticipated that other necessary consequential amendments might come to light as part of the implementation process. Accordingly, Section 180 of the Act includes a standard power to make such consequential amendments, and these draft regulations derive from that power.

Many—indeed, most—of the consequential amendments made by these draft regulations are technical in nature. They are described in detail in the accompanying Explanatory Memorandum so I will confine my remarks to the substantive provisions. First, as I have said, the 2017 Act alters the governance arrangements for fire and rescue in London. From April this year the London Fire and Emergency Planning Authority will be abolished, with day-to-day responsibility for the fire and rescue service transferring to the new London Fire Commissioner. The commissioner will be directly accountable to the Mayor of London, supported by a new deputy mayor for fire. This change has the full backing of the current mayor.

It is expected that many of those aspiring to be appointed as London Fire Commissioner will be members of the existing firefighters’ pension scheme. A successful candidate would, quite understandably, want to retain their membership of the scheme upon their appointment. Clearly, we should not put artificial barriers in the way of experienced senior firefighters applying for this post, thereby limiting the pool of suitable candidates. The mayor, for the time being, should be able to appoint the best available candidate to the office of London Fire Commissioner. Regulations 2 and 10 of the draft regulations therefore make the necessary amendments to the Fire Services Act 1947 and the Fire and Rescue Services Act 2004 to allow for continuity of membership of the firefighters’ pension scheme where an existing member of the scheme is appointed commissioner.

Outside London, the 2017 Act provided for any change to the governance of fire and rescue services to be locally determined. Noble Lords may be aware that in October last year the Police and Crime Commissioner for Essex, Roger Hirst, became the Police, Fire and Crime Commissioner for Essex. We have also received proposals from the PCCs in Cambridgeshire, Hertfordshire, Northamptonshire, North Yorkshire, Staffordshire and West Mercia to take on the functions of the fire and rescue authorities in their areas. We are currently considering these proposals and aim to make an announcement soon.

This reform provides the backdrop for the consequential amendments made by the schedule to the draft regulations. Fire and rescue authorities are subject to a wide range of local government and other legislation that governs how they operate. The Policing and Crime Act itself made a good many consequential amendments to modify such legislation to ensure that it could continue to operate where the functions of a fire and rescue authority were taken on by a PCC. We have identified a small number of further enactments which also need to be amended, in particular the Local Government Finance Act 1988, which makes provision for the financial administration of fire and rescue authorities.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Blair of Boughton (CB)]

Before the Minister steps up, I would like to echo the comments of the noble Lords, Lord Kennedy and Lord Paddick, about the 28-day rule. Would the Minister be prepared to agree that the Home Office or the inspectorate should examine in a year’s time, after the enactment of all this, as to whether this limit works? Intuitively, it does not; intuitively, certainly when we look at the stuff that we have heard recently about rape cases collapsing because the material had not been looked at, 28 days is almost an impossibility in a serious case, if there was only one case. We know that rape investigators in London are carrying 25 cases simultaneously, which means that they have to deal with all this in one day, effectively. There is something very honourable in the attempt to keep people off police bail, but, intuitively, this may go absolutely wrong. I would like the Minister to agree to seek agreement from the Home Office or HMIC that this matter be reported back to this House in 12 months’ time as to the effects of this well-meant provision.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I thank noble Lords for their contributions to this debate, and wish the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, well. I hope that he does not spend the whole of the Recess in his sick-bed.

I am grateful for the support for the draft regulations, although it is fair to say that some of the debate has touched not on the provisions but on some of the substantive reforms made by the Policing and Crime Act. I welcome the fact that the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, has reiterated the Opposition’s support for the establishment of the London Fire Commissioner. The current governance arrangements in London can lead to confusion, with the mayor being accountable for setting the annual budget but decisions relating to fire and rescue provision being determined by the London Fire and Emergency Planning Authority. Previously, this has led to a breakdown in decision-making, with the previous mayor having to repeatedly use his direction-making powers to resolve conflicts, which is time consuming and costly. That was clarified by the noble Lord’s comments. The changes in the 2017 Act will strengthen democratic accountability by giving the directly elected mayor greater responsibility for fire and, crucially, streamlining decision-making to assist in making future demands on fire and rescue services in London.

The mayor, both now and in the future, should be able to appoint the best available candidate to the office of London Fire Commissioner. The changes made in the draft regulations to firefighters’ pension arrangements will ensure that this is the case. Indeed, failure to make the changes provided for in the draft regulations is likely significantly to reduce the pool of suitably qualified candidates for the post in the future.

Women: Economic Freedom

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

Tuesday 6th February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Donaghy]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of women’s economic freedom; and what steps they are taking to promote equal pay.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, we are making good progress. Currently 15.12 million women are in work—more than ever before—and the Government continue to support women’s participation in the labour market. Equal pay is a legal requirement and this law was strengthened in 2014. Additionally, new legislation requires large employers to publish their gender pay gap, shining a light on the differences between the average hourly earnings of men and women.

[Baroness Donaghy (Lab)]

I thank the noble Baroness for her Answer. Today is the 100th anniversary of the legislation receiving Royal Assent. Last night’s debate was a chance to celebrate and to reflect but it was generally accepted that we still had a long way to go on a whole range of issues. We have the same structural problems in the labour market as 50 years ago, and women lose out on pay, pensions and job security. What specific steps will her department take to make measurable improvements in closing the gender pay gap?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I join the noble Baroness in saying that last night’s debate was very enjoyable. It was very upbeat and in many ways very humorous but at the heart of it was the fact that we still have a lot further to go in this area. On childcare, the Government are now doing more than ever to support women into work; over 3 million people have been taken out of tax altogether; and the Government have introduced a number of initiatives to allow people to return to work after taking time out for caring duties.

[Baroness Manzoor (Con)]

My Lords, on this important anniversary and with the advent of the fourth industrial revolution, I note with interest that computer science will be key. However, it is important to be aware that only 20% of girls undertaking GCSEs take this subject and only 10% do so at A-level, so this will have a dramatic effect in the future. What are the Government doing to address this issue so that, 100 years from now, women do not have another problem with being left behind in terms of both pay and status in work and in the economy?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My noble friend is absolutely right to point out that what girls do today at GCSE and A-level will determine what the women’s workforce of the future looks like. She is also right to point out that only 20% of girls do computer science at GCSE and 10% at A-level. One thing that I know my children are absolute wizards at—far better than me—is computer science. If girls are very conversant with computer science and STEM subjects generally, that will make them really equipped for the workforce of the next generation.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

The Institute for Fiscal Studies found recently that by the time a couple’s first child reaches the age of 20, the mother’s earnings are almost a third less than the father’s. Take-up of shared parental leave is disappointingly low; I have crossed swords with the noble Lord, Lord Henley, in discussing the reasons why. However, we cannot just put this problem in the “too difficult” box. Too much is being lost to the economy and to families.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull]

Will the Minister please agree to meet me to discuss some out-of-the-box ideas that I do not have time to outline here?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I am sorry; I missed the last part of the noble Baroness’s question but I shall certainly be happy to meet her.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab)]

My Lords, will the Government address the ways in which universal credit reduces the economic freedom of many poorer women, partly because it is paid into a single account so we cannot be sure that the money goes to them, for themselves or any children, and partly because it creates a work disincentive for second earners, many of whom are still women? It does not support those women into paid work.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I think the thing here is to get women into work and undo their reliance on credit, and some of the initiatives that the Government have put into play help women in that regard. We have more people and therefore more women than ever in employment.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

Have the Government had recent communication with the BBC about its differential pay rates for men and women?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

Well, we have not had conversations with the BBC, but the EHRC is certainly interested in talking to it. I suspect that the BBC issue is an equal pay issue rather than a gender pay gap issue, but I am sure that that will all come out in the conversation that the EHRC has. Of course, the penalties for not complying with this are that the company or organisation involved has to do an equal pay audit, which is quite onerous.

[Baroness Gale (Lab)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that the Institute for Fiscal Studies published research yesterday showing that, by the time their first child is grown up, mothers earn 30% less per hour than fathers? A quarter of that gap can be explained by the fact that mothers are the ones who generally work part-time while their children are growing up, so they miss out on earnings growth and opportunities. While it is good to see the pay gap closing when women first get on the career ladder, when women and men decide to become parents it is usually the women who miss out. What are the Government doing to close this gap for women who are or have been working part-time?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I think that the noble Baroness has asked a very similar question to the noble Baroness, Lady Burt. As I said to her, we are doing a number of things to help women back into work after a break in their career. Supporting men and women with caring responsibilities takes the burden of responsibility off the woman. Shared parental leave is very important, along with working with businesses to support and increase women’s progression to senior positions. In addition, a large number of organisations now allow for flexible working when a woman returns to work.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

My Lords, it is a pity that my noble friend was drowned out, because her question was very important—so important that it was repeated, of course. Does the department keep information and statistics on the number of women who, when they become pregnant, lose their jobs or are sacked? Is that being monitored, and what is being done to mitigate it?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I am not sure that we keep those specific statistics, but what I can say to the noble Baroness, which I am sure she will know, is that if a woman who gets pregnant is then sacked she most definitely has a claim under the Equality Act.

Refugees: Teaching of English

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

Tuesday 6th February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they intend to provide additional resources to programmes for the teaching of English to refugees.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government recognise the importance of the English language for refugee integration. The Government have provided additional funding of £10 million under the vulnerable persons relocation scheme for more English classes, childcare facilities and local co-ordination of English language provision. English language tuition is also available for refugees under the arrangements for adult learners.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that Answer and for the very helpful meeting she had with me to discuss this. Since that meeting, has she had the chance to reflect on the 60% reduction in ESOL funding since 2010, the desirability of extending the guaranteed eight hours a week of teaching to all refugees, and the role that voluntary projects can play alongside statutory provisions? Is it not the case that language is the most important precondition for full participation in British society, and that if refugees are unable to speak English, it compromises their ability to integrate, with negative social, employment and security implications?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I totally agree with the noble Lord about English language skills being the key to employment, integration and contributing to wider society in general. As I said, we have made more than £10 million available over five years, and local authorities are required to arrange a minimum of eight hours’ formal tuition a week within a month of arrival and for a period of 12 months, or until the individual reaches ESOL entry level 3.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, there has been a huge cut in the funding of ESOL, as the noble Lord, Lord Alton, said. Without being able to speak English, refugees, having fled conflict, have to cope with loneliness and isolation as well. Can the Minister explain to the House the Government’s comprehensive strategy for ESOL in England and how they will co-ordinate it with the devolved institutions?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

For refugees, which is what the Question is about, our ESOL strategy is that local authorities have to arrange a minimum of eight hours’ formal language tuition a week within a month of arrival and for a period of 12 months, or until that person reaches ESOL entry level 3. ESOL is a route to employment, and we want people who arrive here as refugees to be able to access the labour market as quickly as possible, because many of them will be quite highly skilled.

[Baroness Warsi (Con)]

My Lords, I support the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Alton. Does my noble friend agree that, as well as resourcing, it is important that in teaching English as a second language the focus is on how we teach it, where we teach it and when we teach it, to allow full access for people coming into this country? Is she aware of a specific Department for Communities and Local Government programme which was put in place in 2013 to effectively expand the way in which English as a second language is taught? Can she tell us about the success of that programme and whether there are any plans to extend it?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

If my noble friend is talking about the same programme I am thinking of, Talk English, it was an excellent initiative, of which I saw an example up in Manchester. The parents, in particular the mothers, dropped their children off at school and then went into the school and were taught English. Things like that not only make women feel part of their children’s environment but also make them feel part of the community in which they live. I remember asking one mother what it was about Manchester that she liked so much. She said, “I love the rain”.

[Baroness Hamwee (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister has referred to £10 million of funding over five years for additional ESOL teaching, and that is very welcome. But is it not the case that this will benefit only resettled Syrian refugees, meaning that the great majority of refugees in the UK are locked out? On investment for these programmes, the Minister should take comfort from the fact that there is huge public support for funding teaching English for all refugees.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I certainly agree with the noble Baroness that refugees generally should be able to learn English. What I am talking about today is a £10 million fund for resettled refugees, but tuition is available to refugees under arrangements for adult learners as well.

[Lord Watts (Lab)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Hogan-Howe]

My Lords, in 2016, Dame Louise Casey conducted a review on extremism. She stressed the importance of integration, which reduced the chances of extremism, and of course speaking English increases the chances of integration. The £10 million that the Minister referred to has certainly helped to assist resettled Syrians, but could that same commitment to provide eight hours of English training be provided to all other refugees as well? That might enhance the strategy mentioned by the Opposition.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, as I explained to my noble friend Lady Warsi, English language tuition is also available to refugees under the adult learners scheme. But the noble Lord is absolutely right: integration is the key to tackling extremism and the English language is the key to enabling that integration.

Modern Slavery: Indian Supply Chains

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

Monday 5th February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Harries of Pentregarth]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many British businesses have taken action and reported their efforts to prevent modern slavery in supply chains from India.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, the UK is the first country to require businesses to report on the steps that they have taken to tackle modern slavery. Thousands of businesses have published transparency statements, with many examples of good practice emerging in India across a range of industries, from textiles to landscaping materials. I encourage businesses to stay vigilant and to work with local NGOs to understand the risks in their supply chains.

[Lord Harries of Pentregarth (CB)]

I thank the Minister for her Answer. According to the Government’s estimates, between 9,000 and 11,000 businesses with a turnover of more than £36 million a year are required to submit these statements, but the Government have not been willing to set up a central register. Groups of NGOs have set up two websites. According to them, less than 4,000 businesses have so far set up statements. Only 14% of these conform fully with the law. The NGOs further add that there is particular complacency among certain high-risk industries, which might also point to high-risk groups such as the Dalits and Adivasis in India. If the Government are still not willing to set up a central register, what steps will they take to ensure that all businesses comply with the law and provide a statement?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble and right reverend Lord gives a figure of 14%, but two independent NGOs have collated statements and found that between 32% and 50% of eligible companies have produced a statement. Clearly there is further to go. The legislation is relatively new. On compiling a register, we have considered in detail whether the Government could publish a list of businesses covered by the Modern Slavery Act. It is not easy to do so because it is not currently possible to filter the databases of Companies House by turnover size, but the Government are looking at this.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, it is not easy to find out whether the companies that are required to provide the annual report are complying. The companies we are concerned about operate right across the world, not just in India, although India is clearly very important. The Government really do need to take some action to ensure that there is pressure on these companies to comply with the Modern Slavery Act.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, part of the pressure is from the public, because the public are more and more concerned that their clothes are produced ethically—or whatever goods and services. The Home Secretary can apply for a court injunction requiring businesses to comply. If they still refuse, they will be liable to an unlimited fine for contempt of court.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister realise how weak her answers sound? In response to the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Harries, she said that it is for NGOs to keep a list; to the noble and learned Baroness she said that the public have to put on pressure. There has to be a little bit more action from the Government. They have this requirement, so they have to get behind it to make sure it happens. We understand, as we heard earlier, that the Government set their face against any statutory regulation in this regard, but will the Minister tell us what action the Government will now take to do their utmost to ensure that these companies register and understand the risk in their supply chain, as has been highlighted by the Corporate Responsibility Coalition, which recognises that many companies just are not looking at this and taking it seriously? The Government have to step up to the plate.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I did not absolve the Government of responsibility by saying that it is up to the NGOs to produce a list. I outlined the difficulties of producing a list, because of filtering by turnover size. The idea of public pressure is a strong one. In addition, I outlined the remedies available to the Home Secretary, which include applying for a court injunction requiring businesses to comply. They are liable to an unlimited fine for contempt of court if they do not.

[Baroness Hamwee (LD)]

My Lords, I believe that the Government have not yet taken the step, which I accept is something of a nuclear option, of applying for an injunction. Is the Minister aware that the National Audit Office, in its report in December on modern slavery, commented on the fact that,

“the Home Office does not produce a list of businesses that are expected to comply with the legislation and cannot say how many companies that should have produced a statement have done so”?

It also says:

“The Home Office has acknowledged that to date the quality of statements has been variable. Statements therefore do not provide equal levels of assurance to those scrutinising them”—


that is, the NGOs and members of the public. Do the Government have any ideas as to how to assist those who would wish to scrutinise them?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, in terms of the Government, all government departments require their suppliers to tell them whether they are compliant with the transparency requirement of the Modern Slavery Act. I accept the noble Baroness’s point that some of the statements vary in terms of the quality and the information that they provide, but I reiterate that the legislation is relatively new and I expect that the whole system will see improvements.

[Lord Spicer (Con)]

My Lords—

[Lord Elystan-Morgan (CB)]

My Lords—

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, because two noble Lords were speaking I did not hear my noble friend’s question.

[Lord Spicer]

My Lords, the person who has done more than anybody else to further this cause is Mr Anthony Steen. Should not something be done to recognise that fact?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, that decision is probably above my pay grade, but I congratulate anybody who is helping to make improvements in this area. It is a major priority of this Government.

Role of Women in Public Life

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

Monday 5th February 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, I begin by thanking all noble Lords who have contributed to the debate. It has been not only very good humoured but humorous, and so varied in the number of absolutely fascinating and informative stories that we have heard.

I am very proud of the history that has allowed me the opportunity to stand here and speak. The campaign for women’s franchise started a chain of events that did not stop at the vote and enabled women to take their seats in this House. Before I respond to the particular points raised today, I want first to acknowledge those who made it possible for me to be here, some of whom are in the Chamber today. My noble friends Lady Morris of Bolton and Lady Jenkin, and in the other place the right honourable Lady the Prime Minister, and David Cameron before her, have all been pivotal in my journey here today.

In a wider sense, I have heard so much about the history of brilliant women that I did not know before and I want to go home and read about them all. To name a few, Jessie Stephen sounds fascinating and feisty, as does my noble friend Lady Jenkin’s granny and my noble friend Lady Seccombe’s mother, and who could forget Annie Kenney? Some of the women came from quite ordinary circumstances and went on to do extraordinary things. Those are the most powerful messages that we can deliver in this centenary year.

We must never forget that those women made remarkable sacrifices so that the sight of women here would be unremarkable. They faced criticism, abuse and defamation—one noble Lord told a story about oranges with razor blades in them. Their opponents rebuked them for stepping outside of their domestic environment. Little did those opponents know that it was in just those spaces from which women ran their households and raised their children that they also built their campaigns. It was in a Manchester parlour in 1903 that Emmeline Pankhurst and her daughters established the Women’s Social and Political Union. The noble Lord, Lord Desai, might like to know that there is a small room in Manchester underneath the Women’s Aid building where you can find the Pankhurst Centre. We also have the People’s History Museum in Manchester, which tells much about women’s suffrage.

As so many noble Lords said today, it took many decades—you could say hundreds of years—of meetings, petitions and debate to achieve women’s suffrage, led ably by Millicent Fawcett and the National Union of Women’s Suffrage Societies, which relied on the volunteering and tireless campaigning of women up and down the UK.

I have also listened to the challenges that women continue to face to enter Parliament, have a fulfilling career and survive the daily aggressions and harassment that can restrict women’s freedom and right to safety. As my noble friend Lady Jenkin said, the UK has made great progress, but there is so much more to do. All young women should be able to see Parliament as a place that they actively want to come to and make a real difference to people’s lives.

To answer a point raised by my noble friend Lady Eaton, we are commissioning evidence of what works from evaluated programmes in the UK and internationally. We know that there are many barriers to participation, but it is vital to understand what is effective and whether it is effective for only some women. Our aim is to offer political parties a range of options that they can draw on and adopt depending on their own needs.

Many noble Lords talked about legislating to commence Section 106 of the Equality Act. We welcome all actions by political parties to demonstrate their commitment to diversity, but we do not believe that further legislation and regulation is the best way forward. We have heard about what political parties are doing, and we believe that they are responsible for their candidate selection and should lead the way in improving the representation of women.

When Nancy Astor took her seat in the other place in 1919, she represented the women who protested, picketed, fought and died in a long campaign to be heard. Once elected, she received up to 2,000 letters a week from women all over the UK who trusted her to take their concerns seriously. Too often, many belittle the inequalities that continue to affect women and girls as “women’s issues” instead of society’s issues. These injustices should continue to shock and prompt action.

We have heard particularly about the barriers that women face to enter Parliament. Some of these are about the practicalities of life working in Westminster—working between multiple locations, balancing caring responsibilities with long working days or ensuring financial stability while pursuing election. I would like to commend Parliament, particularly the work of the Commons Reference Group on Representation and Inclusion, for its work to make this a more family-friendly working environment, through practical solutions such as childcare facilities and changes to the parliamentary schedule.

The Government are also acting to ensure that women can play an equal part in the economy by giving them valuable skills and opportunities, encouraging girls into STEM subjects, introducing coding lessons from the age of seven, and delivering high-quality apprenticeships to challenge the notion that there are men’s jobs and women’s jobs. We want women to have equal access to higher-paying sectors and careers. We are investing £5 million in returners schemes so that people who take time out for caring responsibilities can return to work in jobs that match their skills and experience. We are also determined to address the gender pay gap through new regulations on businesses with more than 250 employees to report the differences in median earnings between women and men. The noble Lord, Lord Watson of Invergowrie, talked about that. These actions are helping to level the playing field so that women are free to make choices about their lives and their aspirations, including politics, while ensuring their financial security.

The noble Baronesses, Lady Bakewell and Lady Donaghy, talked about the WASPI ladies. We should recognise the skills, talents and experience that older women bring to the workforce by equalising the state pension age and eliminating gender inequalities in social security. However, the Government did introduce a concession that is worth £1.1 billion which means that no one should be made to work more than an additional 18 months as compared with the previous timetable to retire as a result of the change in the state pension age.

My noble friend Lord Sherbourne and the noble Lord, Lord Watson, talked about the BBC in relation to its pay issues which have been so prominent in the press recently. We welcome the publication of the BBC’s review into on-air pay and the plans to establish a new transparent pay policy for presenters and journalists. That is long overdue. The BBC must ensure that its pay arrangements are rooted in fairness and equality, and we expect it to act quickly to resolve any outstanding issues. It remains a matter for the Equality and Human Rights Commission to consider whether to investigate pay at the BBC as the regulatory body for enforcing equal pay. We understand that the EHRC has already approached the BBC following the concerns raised by Carrie Gracie, the former China editor.

I have also heard very clearly how women are held back by outdated beliefs that they are unsuited to taking on positions of authority. I am proud that enough people challenge those norms so that we now have our second female Prime Minister, the first of course being Mrs Thatcher, but recent events and revelations remind us that we still have a long way to go.

The noble Baroness, Lady Gale, asked about the closure of the Women’s National Commission. I had not heard of the Women’s National Commission and am pleased to be educated about it. The Government Equalities Office continues to work closely with the women’s sector following the move to bring the work of the Women’s National Commission into government. In preparing the UK’s eighth periodic report to the CEDAW committee, the Government Equalities Office conducted a targeted engagement exercise with a cross-section of women’s organisations and we intend to build on that.

My noble friend Lady Hodgson made the point that no women have been appointed to the United Nations. A range of factors are explored when considering the nomination of a candidate for an election to a body such as the CEDAW committee, and a decision on whether to nominate a UK candidate for the next CEDAW committee membership will be made by 7 March.

The Prime Minister has updated the Ministerial Code to state that, as well as maintaining the highest standards of personal conduct, Ministers must,

“be professional … and treat all those with whom they come into contact with consideration and respect”.

This Parliament often sets an example to the world with ground-breaking legislation and open debate on the pressing issues of the day, but clearly it also reflects the obstacles facing all of society. The Government acknowledge that a gender-balanced Parliament is long overdue and we share the aspirations of those on all sides to make it happen. Parliament should be a place any person can aspire to work in.

My noble friend Lady Eaton talked about local councils. Women make up 33% of local councillors in England, but only 17% of council leaders. I recall that when I became a council leader I was the only female leader in Greater Manchester—in fact, the only Tory leader in Greater Manchester. That is an interesting form of 100% representation. Government and other administrations should reflect the constituencies they serve and gender parity is long overdue at all levels of governance. In December, the Department for Communities and Local Government held a round table with local government representatives, women’s organisations and others to identify barriers to women and to understand what support the Government can provide.

The noble Baroness, Lady Benjamin, who I cannot believe is 69 years of age—I have some major repair work to do to myself—talked about greater discrimination against women of colour. I am proud, as I am sure she is, to be part of the most diverse Parliament in history, but we welcome all moves by political parties to remove barriers that limit anybody’s ability to participate in it. The noble Baroness, Lady Barker, and my noble friend Lord Shinkwin made the same points regarding having more trans and LGBT candidates, and indeed elected and appointed representatives in Parliament. My noble friend Lord Shinkwin talked about having not only the first female Prime Minister, but maybe the first female disabled Prime Minister. That time may well come.

As I have said, we do not think that legislation and regulation is the way to make this happen. We believe that political parties have the primary responsibility for doing this. Different parties take different approaches. The histories of political parties also mean that some of their internal structures differ enormously. Therefore, there is no one-size-fits-all solution. As time goes on, the public will dictate that both the elected and unelected Houses will look far more representative. That is why the Government Equalities Office is commissioning the review that I talked about. Its aim is to provide political parties with a range of possible solutions that they might want to draw on.

There is other positive activity happening to move the debate forward. In March 2017, the Chancellor announced a £5 million fund to mark the centenary of women’s suffrage. Through it we aim to celebrate, educate and encourage more women to participate so that they have an equal voice. With the fund, we have developed an exciting national programme that includes education projects, a £1.5 million grant scheme for local communities and organisations that are supporting women’s representation, and the commemoration of two important figures of the suffrage movement so that a new generation can be inspired by their story. I have had several suggestions for several statues in several parts of the country. It will keep the DDCMS busy for quite some time to come.

The noble Baroness, Lady Janke, made a point about lowering the voting age. We set out a manifesto commitment to maintain the voting age at 18. We have every intention of doing so. It is widely recognised as the age at which one becomes an adult. Full citizenship rights, from drinking, to betting, to voting, should be gained at adulthood. It is important that children and young people feel engaged in the decision-making process. We do this in many different ways, from the Youth Parliament to gaining the views of children and young people on specific areas of legislation.

We are funding the statue of Millicent Fawcett in Parliament Square, the first woman to be honoured in this way. Manchester, as one of seven centenary cities and towns in England with a strong suffrage history, is receiving a portion of £1.2 million for projects that extend the legacy of their story. As someone who has spent all my adult life there, I am delighted that Manchester is using funds to honour the work and life of Emmeline Pankhurst with a statue. The noble Baroness, Lady Burt of Solihull, requested a statue of Mary Wollstonecraft; she was mentioned by several noble Lords. I know there are lots of calls for statues and campaigns such as Mary on the Green are actively campaigning and fundraising for memorials to mark the achievements of British women.

The presence of women in Parliament has, without question, altered social policy and legislation, and focused Parliament’s attention on gender equality. What is more, I believe we can benefit only from a Parliament, from business and from laws that represent the beliefs and make-up of the UK in its entirety.

Before I conclude, I pay tribute to the Fawcett Society, to Helen Pankhurst and her family, and to the countless organisations that continue to advocate for women in the UK and internationally and press for an end to inequality. I encourage noble Lords to take part in this year’s celebrations to mark the suffrage centenary and to celebrate the many women who have made their mark on Parliament and this House. The Representation of the People Act will be on display in Central Lobby from tomorrow so that any noble Lords who would like to see it can do so.

I shall end on someone I have not mentioned but who was very influential on me: Mrs Thatcher. I know she commands a wide range of views. She became Prime Minister when I was 11 years old and showed what women could achieve. Women might not agree with her, people might not agree with her, but everyone was always clear about Margaret Thatcher; she knew exactly what she wanted and she went out and got it in what was a very male world at the time. No, she did not promote many women to her Cabinet because there were not many women in Parliament in those days, in 1979, but she paved the way for women to know that they could get there—it was possible. I shall end with a quotation from Mrs Thatcher given by my noble friend Lady Hodgson: “If you want something said, ask a man; if you want something done, ask a woman”.

Motion agreed.

Investigatory Powers (Codes of Practice) Regulations 2018

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

Thursday 1st February 2018 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

That the draft Regulations laid before the House on 18 December 2017 be approved.

Relevant document: 16th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, I am pleased to be given the opportunity today to debate these important regulations, which are all being made under the Investigatory Powers Act 2016.

That legislation brings together powers available to our law enforcement and security and intelligence agencies to obtain communications and data about communications. I make it quite clear that these powers are vital to the protection of our citizens. They ensure that our agencies are able to bring to justice serious criminals, including terrorists and paedophiles; they enable plots that threaten our national security to be investigated effectively; and they make sure that our agencies can locate and safeguard vulnerable and missing people.

The Act also ensures that these important powers are subject to rigorous safeguards and oversight. It has introduced a double lock, such that any decision to use the most intrusive powers in the Act must be approved by a judge, and it has created a powerful new Investigatory Powers Commissioner to oversee the use of these powers. That post is held by Lord Justice Fulford, who, as noble Lords will be aware, brings a wealth of experience in the judiciary and expertise in matters of law that will be crucial in carrying out this vital role.

The Act received Royal Assent in November 2016 following comprehensive scrutiny in this House as well as in the other place. The detail of that scrutiny has ensured that the Act provides a world-leading legal framework regulating the exercise of these crucial powers. The regulations that we are debating today form an important part of that legal framework and are all intrinsically linked to the Act’s implementation.

I make it clear that the regulations do not, of course, create any new powers. However, they ensure that a number of important powers in the Act can be exercised and they set out how a number of those provisions will be used. Collectively, they also create additional safeguards on top of the already rigorous controls that are contained in the Act itself.

We debate four sets of regulations today. First is the Investigatory Powers (Technical Capability) Regulations 2018. These regulations set out the obligations that may be imposed on a telecommunications or postal operator in a “technical capability notice”. Such a notice will require the relevant operator to maintain the necessary capabilities and infrastructure to ensure that when a warrant or authorisation is served on or given to them, they are able to provide assistance in giving effect to it quickly and in a secure manner.

The Act itself makes it clear that a telecommunications operator may be required, as part of maintaining a technical capability, to retain the ability to remove electronic protection from communications that they have themselves applied. The regulations do not change this position. They simply set out that such an obligation could be included in a technical capability notice, as well as making it clear that the obligation itself may only require any steps to be taken to remove encryption that are reasonably practicable.

The use of technical capability notices is subject to very strong controls and safeguards set out in the primary legislation. The Secretary of State may decide to give a notice only where it is necessary and proportionate and that decision must be approved by a judicial commissioner. In addition, before giving a technical capability notice the Secretary of State must consult the operator to whom it is to be given and must also take into account a number of factors, including the technical feasibility and likely cost of the operator complying with it. Further, before the notice is given, the Secretary of State must also consider the public interest in the security and integrity of telecommunications systems.

The Act also ensures that telecommunications operators have an effective right of redress where they have been given a technical capability notice or, indeed, a national security notice or data retention notice. Specifically, the Act makes it clear that the relevant operator may seek a review of that notice by the Secretary of State. When conducting such a review, the Secretary of State must consult the Technical Advisory Board—a non-departmental public body—as to the technical feasibility and cost of the notice, as well as a judicial commissioner in relation to its necessity and proportionality.

The second set of regulations that we debate today, the Investigatory Powers (Review of Notices and Technical Advisory Board) Regulations 2018, set out the circumstances in which such a review may take place and how the Technical Advisory Board must be constituted.

The third set of regulations is the Investigatory Powers (Codes of Practice) Regulations 2018. This instrument brings into force five codes of practice under the Act. The codes relate to the interception of communications; equipment interference; the bulk acquisition of communications data; national security notices; and the intelligence services’ retention and use of bulk personal datasets.

Each of the five codes sets out processes and safeguards governing the use of these vital powers. They give detail on how the relevant powers should be used, including examples of best practice. They provide additional clarity and will ensure the highest standards of professionalism and compliance with the Act’s provisions.

The codes are primarily intended to guide those public authorities that are able to exercise powers under the Act, as well as telecommunications operators that might be required to provide assistance in giving effect to its provisions. They provide detailed information on the processes for applying to use each of the powers, as well as in relation to the renewal, modification and cancellation of warrants and authorisations. They set out detailed safeguards in relation to the obtaining, retention, handling and destruction of information obtained in the exercise of the Act’s provisions, and they include detailed requirements on public authorities in relation to record-keeping and error reporting to aid the Investigatory Powers Commissioner in carrying out his oversight functions. The codes are detailed and comprehensive, and together include more than 400 pages of guidance and best practice, ensuring that the use of these important powers is subject to the most stringent safeguards.

The final set of regulations that we are debating today is the Investigatory Powers (Interception by Businesses etc. for Monitoring and Record-Keeping Purposes) Regulations 2018. As under pre-existing law, the Act makes it a criminal offence to intercept communications in the absence of lawful authority. It also makes it clear that lawful authority includes interception by businesses or other bodies where it is a legitimate practice. These regulations set out what conduct that includes. Such activities might be, for example, call centres recording telephone calls for training purposes, companies scanning their computer networks to detect cyberattacks or businesses ensuring that their systems are not being used for unauthorised purposes. These regulations simply ensure that companies can undertake these important routine activities without falling foul of the offence of unlawful interception.

In summary, the regulations we are debating today relate to provisions already set out in primary legislation and ensure that the provisions can be implemented effectively. They make it clear how a number of powers in the Act will operate and establish additional safeguards to the already rigorous controls set out in the primary legislation itself. I commend the regulations to the House.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have spoken, particularly the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, the noble Lords, Lord Butler and Lord Murphy of Torfaen, and of course the noble Lord, Lord West of Spithead, for in a nutshell outlining what these regulations do, which is to complement the primary legislation. This legislation was thoroughly scrutinised by the committee and all the recommendations that it made were accepted by the Government.

It is absolutely right that the most rigorous safeguards are in place. In introducing the Act, the Government struck a very clear balance between liberty and safeguarding the people of this country. It is not about undermining the work of journalists: it never was about undermining the work of journalists. As I said in my opening speech, these powers are absolutely necessary to prevent terrorism and intercept paedophiles and serious organised criminals. The aim of the legislation was never towards journalists.

The noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, asked about oversight. The oversight function is by the commissioner, as I think he suspected. Yes, the codes of practice are lengthy, but they are user-friendly. It is such a complex area, but that was the intention behind the codes of practice.

Before I turn to the numerous questions that the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, asked, I absolutely echo his words about my noble friend Lord Bates yesterday. He is a wonderful man, a wonderful Minister, and we are very glad that in a few days he will be back. My noble friend Lord Taylor picked up the Question. I do not know how well he answered it, but I am sure in his inimitable way he answered it pretty well, he is such a professional. Yes, I commend the words of the noble Baroness, Lady Smith. This was obviously a spontaneous event and those who responded spontaneously in your Lordships’ House were very generous and kind. I thank everyone who was there at the time.

The first question of the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, was about the Explanatory Memorandum to the codes. The committee made clear:

“At our request the Home Office has now replaced this”—


the Explanatory Memorandum—

“with one that sets out more clearly what the Codes do and why, which should aid the House in its scrutiny of the way the system is to operate”.

The noble Lord also asked about bulk communications involving those who are not suspects—innocent people. I reiterate what I said in my opening speech: there are extremely stringent safeguards in the IP Act regulating the use of bulk powers. A bulk warrant may be issued by the Secretary of State only where it is necessary and proportionate—they are the two key words here—and where the decision to issue it has been approved by a judicial commissioner. The bulk powers are available only to the intelligence services, and a bulk warrant may be issued only where it is necessary in the interests of national security.

Every bulk warrant must specify each of the operational purposes for which the data obtained may be subsequently examined. Examination may not take place for any purpose other than those specified in the warrant, and the Secretary of State and judicial commissioner must be satisfied when they issue the warrant that those purposes are necessary. Examination of bulk data itself may take place, again, only where it is necessary and proportionate. In practice, the safeguards mean that only a tiny fraction of the data obtained will ever be accessed.

[Lord West of Spithead]

Does not the Minister agree that the collection of bulk data does not assume that everyone in our population is a suspect, as the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, said, any more than the camera systems on our public transport assume that everyone on that bus is a suspect? Rather, it highlights and spots the person who sticks a knife in someone.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

Sometimes the problem with interventions is that you do not get around to saying what you were going to say. Perhaps noble Lords will be patient. The noble Lord, Lord West, put it very succinctly and illustrated what we mean by bulk data.

Where the content of a communication is to be examined when it is of a person known to be in the British Isles, a separate targeted examination warrant must be obtained, which is in itself subject to approval by the Secretary of State and a judicial commissioner. The codes of practice that I have been outlining today provide additional safeguards on the use of bulk powers relating to filtering data, the training that must be obtained by those examining it and how bulk data should be handled, retained and destroyed.

The noble Lord, Lord Paddick, also asked if warrants allowed interference with devices of innocent people and asked how that was compliant with the ECJ ruling—the question on everyone’s lips. Equipment interference is subject to stringent safeguards and any warrant must be necessary and proportionate and must be approved by a judicial commissioner. This House has, of course, approved those strong safeguards.

I see the noble Baroness, Lady Chakrabarti, looking quite interested, because the noble Lords, Lord Paddick and Lord Butler, asked about the Liberty challenge to the IP Act and the Government’s response to it. The judgment handed down by the Court of Appeal on Tuesday this week—I presume that that is the one that they are referring to—relates to the challenge brought against the DRIP Act. It has now been replaced by provisions in the Investigatory Powers Act, and therefore the judgment relates to legislation that is actually no longer in effect. The provisions in the Act challenged by Liberty, which will be heard at the end of February in the High Court, relate to targeted communications data and, therefore, are not relevant to the debate today.

I move on to the technical capability regulations. I was asked whether they would stifle innovation. To be clear here, none of the regulations that we are discussing today in and of themselves place any burden on industry. To suggest that the Investigatory Powers (Technical Capability) Regulations 2018 would damage companies operating in this country is to misunderstand what the provisions in those regulations actually do. Those regulations do not themselves impose any requirements on telecommunications or postal operators. Rather, they set out what obligations could be imposed on an operator through a technical capability notice. The power for the Secretary of State to give such notice is set out in the Investigatory Powers Act itself, and has therefore already been approved by Parliament. There are stringent safeguards in the Act regulating the use of technical capability notices to minimise the impact on businesses, including that the notice must be necessary, proportionate and approved by a judicial commissioner. As I have already said, before giving a technical capability notice to a relevant operator, the Secretary of State must consult that operator. In addition, the Secretary of State must consider a number of factors before deciding to give a notice. Those factors include the technical feasibility and likely cost to the operator complying with the notice, which goes to the heart of ensuring that a notice does not damage a company’s interests.

The Act also makes it clear that the Secretary of State must ensure that arrangements are in force for securing that relevant operators receive an appropriate contribution in respect of their costs incurred in complying with the Act, as the Secretary of State deems appropriate. Such costs include those incurred in relation to complying with a technical capability notice. The Government’s policy is that the appropriate contribution is calculated on a case-by-case basis to ensure that the operator makes neither a loss nor a gain from complying with the Act. A number of the draft codes of practice that we have debated today include an entire chapter on technical capability notices, giving further information about their use, including details of the cost recovery process and the sorts of activities it is anticipated that the Government would fund as part of an operator maintaining a capability.

I may be repeating myself here, but the noble Lord, Lord Butler, asked about making sure that the codes of practice on retention records are made consistent with this week’s ruling. The judgment related to the retention of communications data by telecommunications operators is not being debated today. The CJEU ruling was not about safeguards for equipment interference or for access to bulk communications data. The IP tribunal considered the specific issue of whether the CJEU judgment applied to bulk communications data and has made a further reference to the CJEU on this very point and on whether the bulk communications data regime is within the scope of the judgment’s safeguarding requirements.

[Lord Paddick]

My Lords, I realise that I am intervening a bit late, but I did not want to interrupt prematurely, as I did before. Will the Minister comment on techUK’s specific suggestion that the regulations impose an additional aspect to the technical capability notice, in that the Home Office will be alerted to changes in innovation in systems and development? I do not think that the noble Baroness has addressed that specific issue.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I do not think that they do, but I will write to the noble Lord, if I may, on that specific point.

The noble Lord, Lord Butler, asked about the cost of providers keeping IP addresses. The Act makes it clear that companies will be provided with an appropriate contribution to their costs of complying with the Act. The noble Lord will appreciate that I do not have the detail of that to hand, but I am happy to write to him.

The noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, asked about the processes in place for dealing with errors. There are entire sections of the codes of practice setting out the processes for reporting errors to the IP commissioner, including the timeframe for when it must be reported and what might constitute an error. The commissioner has broad and comprehensive powers to investigate such errors.

I think I have answered everything apart from the question from the noble Lord, Lord Paddick.

Motions agreed.

Women: Events Industry

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

Tuesday 30th January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hussein-Ece]

To ask Her Majesty's Government what steps they are taking to protect women who work in the events industry, following reports of harassment at the recent Presidents Club Charity Dinner.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, we condemn all forms of workplace harassment, which is unlawful under the Equality Act 2010. The Government are looking at all aspects of the wholly unacceptable behaviour which is alleged to have happened at the Presidents Club dinner. The Prime Minister has committed to reviewing non-disclosure agreements and any evidence that comes forward. The EHRC has sent a pre-enforcement letter to the Artista agency raising concerns about its actions, and the Charity Commission is considering whether further regulatory action is needed for charitable trusts.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

I thank the Minister for her reply. Many reports on this incident have claimed that the women employed at the recent Presidents Club charity dinner knew what they were letting themselves in for, yet of the 360 male guests, none saw what was going on and apparently they all left early. This has exposed the fact that these women, some as young as 18, were required to sign their rights away under gagging clauses, and were not allowed to talk about or report any sexual harassment or discrimination. How will women be protected from these crimes that may be committed against them, and how can they be made aware of their rights?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, it is important to understand that non-disclosure agreements, which I think the noble Baroness is referring to and which are sometimes called confidentiality agreements, may legitimately form part of a contract of employment. But these would be legitimate to protect trade secrets, for example. They cannot preclude an individual from asserting statutory rights, either under the Employment Rights Act or the Equality Act 2010.

[Lord Storey (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for her detailed response, which was helpful. The obtaining of charitable status brings responsibilities, and many people are shocked that the Presidents Club was a charity. Will the Minister elaborate a bit more on guidance that is given to charities—surely there is no place for a charity to issue gagging orders or confidentiality agreements—and please ensure that this is a thing of the past?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, every time something like this happens we hope that it is a thing of the past, and there have now been quite a few occasions at which this sort of behaviour has gone on. The Charity Commission is interested in this matter because of whether this charity acted in accordance with the rules.

[Baroness Gale (Lab)]

Does the Minister agree that Section 40 of the Equality Act 2010 was an important provision, providing protection for employees against harassment from third parties? Unfortunately, the coalition Government repealed the section in 2013, even though they held a consultation and 71% of people said they would like to keep it in. Does the Minister agree that Section 40 should be reinstated in order to guarantee legal protection against harassment from third parties, and would she go further and revise it so that it requires only one previous incident of third party harassment instead of the previous requirement of two or more? In that way, all those who experience harassment, wherever they work, will have some measure of protection.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, the noble Baroness is absolutely right. In 2013, the coalition Government did indeed repeal specific provisions of Section 40 of the Equality Act 2010 which explicitly made an employer liable where they knew an employee had been harassed at work by a third party on at least two previous occasions and failed to take reasonable steps to prevent it. These provisions, as well as being quite confusing, were considered redundant, as an employer can be liable for third party harassment under the ordinary harassment provisions in Section 26 of the Act.

[Baroness Afshar (CB)]

My Lords, given that these young women are not very confident, is it not unreasonable to expect them to read gagging orders, find out what the problem is and then deal with it? Would it not be better to put the responsibility on the employers, who should not be employing them in the first place with this kind of responsibility?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I think the noble Baroness has made the point that I was trying, perhaps not very articulately, to make. A gagging clause will not, in and of itself, protect an employer or someone who is, say, employing, a waitress for an evening. In fact, it will go further than that and void that contract or agreement.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that if you want to influence the behaviour of men you should start when they are boys? That is why it is very important that the curriculum for PSHE lessons includes elements that ensure that young people leaving school understand that both genders should be properly respected.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble Baroness makes a very good point. It is only in educating our children through PSHE, relationships and sex education that that culture of respect towards one another, the opposite sex, and, for young girls, towards themselves, will change.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, will the Minister give wide publicity to the fact that confidentiality clauses in such agreements are null and void, and can in no way give rise to a course of action?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I hope that if any good can come out of this pretty grubby incident, it will be to highlight the fact that employers, or, indeed, people employing casual staff for the night, cannot hide behind confidentiality or gagging clauses if this sort of behaviour goes on, because they will be void.

[Baroness Corston (Lab)]

Has it crossed the Minister’s mind that the only reason we know about this is because a journalist went undercover and was able to reveal that it was happening? How would one of those young women have complained, and to whom?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble Baroness makes a very good point. The person who raised this was a journalist and she was also a woman. I understand that the Presidents Club has been meeting for 33 years and this is the first time, to my knowledge, that this sort of behaviour has been reported at one of its events.

Registration of Marriage Bill [HL]

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Friday 26th January 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, I congratulate the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of St Albans on bringing forward and outlining the purposes of what is quite a narrowly defined Bill, which will reform the way marriages are registered and enable updating of the marriage entry to allow for the inclusion of mothers’ names. This is a very important issue that the Government fully support, and I am grateful to him for bringing forward the Bill to remove the current inequality in marriage entries.

As the right reverend Prelate and other noble Lords have said, the then Prime Minister gave a commitment in 2014 that the content of the marriage entry would be updated to include the details of both parents of the couple. The marriage entry clearly does not reflect modern Britain and it is high time it was updated. Statistics show that there are currently some 2 million single parents in the country, around 90% of whom are women. As it stands, if any of their children were to get married they would be able to include only their father’s details in the marriage entry, as the noble Baroness, Lady Gale, said in her concluding remarks. Their mother’s details would not be included, even though they had brought them up as a single parent.

As the right reverend Prelate explained, moving to a schedule system is the most cost-effective way to bring about this change. As the noble Baroness, Lady Gale, said, a schedule system has been in place in Scotland since 1855, and it is also in place in Northern Ireland. The same system is already used in England and Wales for civil partnerships. It just would not make sense to update the content of the marriage entry by amending and replacing the 84,000 bound marriage registers currently in use in registry offices, and approximately 30,000 churches and other religious buildings. If any amendments were required in the future, they would need to be replaced again. It would not be cost-effective to update the marriage entry in this way.

To reprint the marriage registers alone would cost £1.9 million. Along with other costs associated with recalling all the current registers and dispatching new registers, this would bring the total cost to around £3 million, on top of the ongoing costs associated with maintaining a paper register system. Changes would also be required to the IT system and to ensure the appropriate training and guidance is provided to registration officers and all the religious bodies affected by the changes.

The changes proposed in the Bill would mean that marriage entries would be held in a single electronic register rather than in thousands of books, making the system more secure, more efficient and far simpler to administer and amend, if necessary. As a result, there would no longer be any need for bound marriage registers and certificate stock to be held in churches or other religious buildings. My noble friend Lady Anelay of St Johns asked about the number of burglaries in the past 12 months. There are a number of burglaries each year from religious premises. The move to a schedule system will remove the risk of registers and blank certificate stock being stolen in order to create an identity from the marriage records to use for fraudulent purposes. Provisional figures for the past 12 months show that there were eight burglaries involving marriage registers in church buildings.

Moving to a schedule system would be the biggest reform of how marriages are registered since 1837 and would move away from the outdated legislation currently in place. As I am sure noble Lords agree, when considering how the marriage entry is updated we will need to ensure that the needs of all the different family circumstances in society today are taken into account.

My noble friend Lady Anelay and a number of noble Lords wanted clarification of the powers conferred by regulations in Clause 1(4). In a debate on a government Bill, this House recently expressed its concern about new criminal offences being created by regulations and statutory instruments. The Registration of Marriage Bill contains powers enabling the Secretary of State to amend the Marriage Act 1949 and other enactments in order to bring marriage registration in line with the process for civil partnerships in England and Wales as well as marriages and civil partnerships in Scotland and Northern Ireland. Clause 1(4) empowers the Secretary of State to amend the Marriage Act 1949 to create a specific criminal offence. This offence is modelled on an existing offence in Section 24(2)(e) of the Marriages (Scotland) Act 1977 and will be committed if a party to a marriage fails to comply with a notice requiring him or her to deliver a signed marriage schedule or document to enable the registration of the marriage. The offence would be punishable on summary conviction by a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale, which is currently £1,000, as the noble Baroness said.

It should be noted that for all civil marriages and religious marriages at which a registrar attends, the signed schedule will be retained by the registrar at the marriage ceremony and taken back to the register office for entry into the marriage register. This accounts for around 75% of all marriages, so it is not envisaged that the offence will be used extensively. No issues have been identified in other jurisdictions with signed schedules being returned to the register office. In fact, traditionally the best man or a family member takes responsibility for ensuring that the marriage is registered.

Although a new offence is created, it is also proposed to remove or reduce the scope of other registration offences in the Marriage Act 1949. At present, it is an offence under Section 76(1) for any person to refuse or without reasonable cause to omit to register any marriage as required under the Act. This offence is potentially committed by a number of people responsible for registering marriages, including registrars, members of the clergy, authorised persons and specified persons in the Jewish and Quaker religions. Under the Bill, only registrars will be responsible for registering marriages so this offence will have a far narrower field of application.

In addition, those currently responsible for registering marriages are required under Section 57 of the 1949 Act to make and deliver to the superintendent registrar a certified copy of entries made in the marriage register book or a certificate stating that no entries have been made since the date of the last certified copy in the previous quarter. It is an offence under Section 76(2) for a person who is required to make these quarterly returns to refuse or fail to deliver any such copy or certificate to a superintendent registrar. Under the Bill, the requirement to make quarterly returns and the associated offence will become redundant and so can be removed.

Although the Bill introduces a new offence at Clause 1(4), it is not considered that the introduction of this proposed new offence or the reduction or removal of existing offences will have any appreciable impact on the justice system. The Ministry of Justice has been consulted about this proposed offence and has not raised concerns to date.

The noble Baroness, Lady Meacher, and other noble Lords including the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, asked about humanist marriage. I need to be very clear that the scope of this Bill does not include solemnisation of marriages.

[Baroness Bakewell]

The issue is not solemnisation but registration, which the Government have shown no opposition to. They merely ask for consultation; the consultation approves. They refer to the Law Commission; the Law Commission approves. It is not an issue on which the Government are offering any opposition; it is simply a matter of implementation according to their judgment.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

Perhaps I may continue to explain. The Bill only includes provisions to introduce a schedule system and to change how marriages are registered to facilitate the changes to the marriage entry to include both parents. That is the scope of the Bill. It is very narrowly about marriage registration and not about solemnisation. It is not intended at all to include wider marriage reform.

[Lord Garel-Jones (Con)]

As the Minister will be aware, every single person who spoke in the debate supported the admirable measure being introduced by the right reverend Prelate. In future discussions, would she—and just as importantly the right reverend Prelate—at least be prepared to consider that the inclusion of humanist marriage does not damage the Bill but actually enhances it?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, the point I am making is that to amend the existing law on marriage to make provision for legally valid humanist ceremonies would involve a huge range of issues.

[Baroness Meacher]

It is already in law that humanist marriages should be recognised legally—all it needs is a ministerial order. It does not need, in a sense, to be in this Bill. What would be wonderful would be an assurance from the Minister that she will take forward the need—with some urgency, five years on—for a ministerial order and have it done. It does not need any further legislative change.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

What the noble Baroness says is quite helpful, and I am very happy to discuss this matter further. The point I am making today is that this is a very narrowly drawn Bill, and to expand on it in any way would risk the Bill in its passage through your Lordships’ House. I am simply pleading with noble Lords to stick to the content of the Bill. We can certainly have discussions about humanist marriages outside the Chamber, but this is the plea I am making. I am not denigrating in any way what noble Lords have said, but the minute we start adding to or amending Bills like this, the more we are in danger of them not securing their way through.

The noble Baroness, Lady Donaghy, asked to see draft regulations before Committee. It is our aim to make a draft of the affirmative regulations available before Committee. The noble Baroness also asked for clarification on the definition of parent. The regulations will prescribe who can be included under the headings for both sets of parents of the couple in the marriage entry. This will enable us to keep pace with societal developments as well as family composition changes.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, asked if there was an intention to reform marriage law. This Bill simply modernises marriage registration, as I have said, and facilitates changes to the register entry to allow the inclusion of both parents’ names. This Bill is not at all intended to include wider marriage reform.

My noble friend Lady Morris of Bolton asked a very valid question about what is put in the entry if you do not know who your parents, particularly your father, might be. There will be provision for both parents to be included in the marriage entry, and the option to leave this blank, as is the case now, I understand.

My noble friend Lady Seccombe asked for assurances that the cost of the marriage certificate will not be raised, as she is concerned that any additional costs and processes will discourage people from marrying. Fees for marriage certificates are set at a cost-recovery basis, using HM Treasury guidance, and are reviewed annually. The provisions of the Bill would not directly lead to an increase in costs.

The noble Baroness, Lady Flather, was, I think, so perfectly content with the Bill that she just thought she would talk about sharia marriages. But I think she knows that the scope of the Bill is narrowly about marriage registration.

[Baroness Flather]

I just want to say, I do not expect that to be in this Bill—and I have no intention of putting it into this Bill—but I wanted to draw attention to this matter. I would be very grateful if the Minister would allow me to come to talk to her.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, anyone can come to talk to me about any issue pertaining to the Home Office—I give that assurance on the Floor of the House. I know what the noble Baroness’s intentions are.

My noble friend Lady Seccombe asked for assurances on security, which is a high priority, as she says. The proposed changes will increase the security of marriage records, which is very important. Currently, the requirement for open marriage-register books and for blank certificates to be held in churches and other religious buildings means they can be a target of theft, as we have heard. The solution in this Bill should minimise that public protection risk, as marriage registers are currently held in some 30,000 different religious buildings. The certificates themselves will still be printed on paper with secure features, in the same way as now.

The noble Baroness, Lady Gale, asked for the timetable for the changes to be confirmed. Subject to the successful passage of the Bill, implementation will involve, clearly among other things, affirmative regulations being made, system changes and training and guidance for local registration services and those who solemnise marriages. We will aim to implement these reforms as soon as possible following Royal Assent.

We have had an excellent debate today and I know that noble Lords recognise the importance of taking forward these changes, which will modernise the process of registering marriages.