Brexit: Negotiations

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Excerpts

Thursday 15th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, can my noble friend assist me? The deal that has been agreed involves spending £39 billion in return for having less say over employment policies, agricultural policies, environment and taxation. It has resulted in headlines across Europe—the most dramatic perhaps being in Ireland:

“Victory in Dublin, chaos in London”—


and the humiliation of our country. How can it be presented as being in the national interest to have brought about such a circumstance?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am afraid that I do not agree with my noble friend’s assessment. We have agreed the principles of the UK’s smooth and orderly exit from the EU, as set out in the withdrawal agreement, and agreed the broad terms of our future relationship. We are delivering on the result of the referendum; we will be leaving the EU; and, going forward, we will be developing a strong partnership with the EU that will last for decades to come.

European Council

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Excerpts

Monday 2nd July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The Prime Minister has been very clear that we are looking to have a strong, sustainable and close economic relationship with the EU and continue with that, but we also want to be able to undertake an independent trade policy which will help to complement that and provide us with new relationships with global partners across the world.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, given the decision on what the European Union, which is 27 member states plus the European Parliament, is prepared to accept—we are now being told that if they do not get what they want they are prepared to walk away—should we not be making the same preparations, so that we are in a position in March of next year to walk away? Should the Government not make that clear to the British people and business, so they have some certainty?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As my noble friend knows, we are very confident that we will be able to reach a good deal with the EU—but he is absolutely right, we are also preparing for all contingencies. That is what any responsible Government should do and that is what this Government are doing. We are advancing our no-deal planning; that is happening across government and across departments and I can assure him that it is on track. We hope it will not be necessary to use it.

Syria

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Excerpts

Monday 16th April 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

All I can do is to reiterate that we remain committed to the UN-led political process. This particular action was about degrading the regime’s chemical weapons capability and deterring their use. We remain committed to broader diplomatic efforts to deal with the Syrian crisis in a broader sense, but this military action was specifically focused on chemical weapons.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

I commend the Prime Minister for her courage and resolution in authorising the action over the weekend, and also our Tornado pilots for the excellent job that they did, together with those charged with cybersecurity and other responsibilities. Does this event not point to the need for us to review particularly our naval capability and our capability to launch missiles from ships? Does it not point to the fact that, in an increasingly dangerous world, we need to consider the needs of defence expenditure in the immediate future?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I am sure my noble friend knows, the defence budget for 2018-19 is £37 billion. We are committed to meeting the NATO guideline to spend at least 2% of our GDP on defence every year of this Parliament, and this commitment should be seen as a floor not a ceiling. Of course, the purpose of our modernising defence programme is to make sure that our defence is configured to address the evolving threats that we face, which is why we have put in place a plan for more ships and planes alongside greater spending on special forces and investment in stealth aircraft, nuclear submarines and cyber technology.

European Council

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Excerpts

Monday 26th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, further to my noble friend Lord Lamont’s question, I am just not clear on the position. Will my noble friend indicate—are our future payments to the EU dependent on achieving a satisfactory trade deal or not?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I have said, this offer is made in the spirit of our future partnership and depends on a broader agreement being reached.

United Kingdom-European Union Future Economic Partnership

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Excerpts

Monday 5th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

Well, I am afraid that I do not agree with the noble Lord’s extremely pessimistic view of every aspect of both the Statement and the Government’s approach. We believe that we will be able to develop a deep, special and productive relationship with the EU, which is what we are committed to, and the Prime Minister in the Statement set out the principles underpinning that.

In relation to the noble Lord’s point about passporting, the reason why we are not looking for passporting is that we understand that it is intrinsic to the single market, and it would require us to be subject to a single rule book over which we have no say. We are looking for a collaborative, objective framework that is reciprocal, mutually agreed and permanent, and therefore stable for businesses—and we believe that we can achieve this.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

I note the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Kerr—why should we allow the European Union to pick the cherries for us? Could my noble friend perhaps not suggest that, given that the Prime Minister’s speech has been extremely well received, not only within the Conservative Party but by the media and the wider country, now is the time for all of us, whatever our views on Brexit and whatever our party, to get behind the Prime Minister and, while we are about the nation’s business, to get the best deal for our country? Could my noble friend also confirm that what Donald Tusk said, which is that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed, applies to this process and that, in particular, it applies to our commitment to provide finance to the European Union?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

My noble friend is absolutely right that we want to enter into the next phase of negotiations in a positive and productive manner and believe that that is the same for both sides. Of course, our future partnership will need to be tailored to the needs of our economy, and this follows the approach that the EU has taken in the past. The EU’s agreement with South Korea, for instance, contains provisions to recognise each other’s approvals for new car models, whereas the agreement with Canada does not. The EU’s agreement with Canada contains provisions to recognise each other’s testing on machinery, while the agreement with South Korea does not. So it is possible to develop relationships that work for both sides, and that is exactly what we intend to do.

House of Lords: Lord Speaker’s Committee Report

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Excerpts

Tuesday 19th December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, in thinking about our future, it might be wise to remind ourselves of the words of another Burns:

“O wad some Power the giftie gie us

To see oursels as ithers see us!

It wad frae mony a blunder free us,

An' foolish notion”

I have said many times before that I love this place. I find that if you are not sure what you think about something, listening to a debate in this place will straighten you out. The debate the other day in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Hollis, on universal credit was extremely moving as well as being informative, as was the debate moved by the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of Canterbury on education. What do they have in common? They were almost entirely ignored by people outside this House, which is portrayed as a load of people in pyjamas or strange outfits every time we appear in the newspapers. If we are to change the perception—because perception is everything in politics—we have to change ourselves. Along with everyone else, I pay tribute to the fantastic work that the noble Lord, Lord Burns, and his committee have done.

As some noble Lords may recall, in her latter years, Baroness Thatcher used to come to this House. Because she was a little frail, she needed someone to look after her. Her office would ring me up and she would say, “I am coming to the House this afternoon, would you like to look after me?” And I would drop everything and come. One day I said to her, “Margaret, you’ve done your bit for the country. People love to see you, but you don’t need to come here so often”. Whereupon she prodded me in the chest and said, “Michael, when we accepted appointment to this place it became our duty to attend. Now how often are you here when I am not here?”. I have never forgotten that. The size of the House is a problem, but so, also, are people who accept appointment to this place and do not take it seriously. To take it seriously, I am afraid that you have to come quite a lot. It is quite a complicated place to understand, which is why, down at the other end of the corridor, they have not a clue what we are about.

On the Burns report itself, I thought that it was almost impossible for that committee to produce a report that would carry support throughout the Benches, and I pay tribute to the noble Lord, Lord Newby, and to the Liberal Party—this may be a first. I thought that his speech was statesmanlike and the behaviour of his party entirely constructive, even though it is not to its advantage, and we should take a lead from that. By the way, if noble Lords ever want to solve a polynomial simultaneous equation, the noble Lord, Lord Burns, is clearly the man. He can take a whole load of complex variables and put them together in what is a brilliant report. Believe me, this is as good as it gets. As my noble friend Lord Cormack indicated, it is probably our last and only chance to reform ourselves.

Of course, as many noble Lords have already said, none of this will fly unless the Prime Minister actually gives an undertaking. Some have said that we cannot rely on convention, but this whole place has existed on that for 500 years—even where we sit is determined by convention. We are not a rules-based House. Yes, we can depend on convention, but it does require the Prime Minister to give a clear undertaking.

I notice that the Leader of the House spoke at the beginning of this debate and is not speaking at the end, and the Leader of the Opposition is speaking at the end of the debate and will no doubt respond to it. I say to my noble friend the Leader of the House, if I may borrow a phrase from a former Prime Minister, that the hand of history is upon her shoulder. She spoke at the beginning of this debate for the Government. I hope at the end of this debate, she will speak in her role as Leader of the House for the whole House and go to the Prime Minister and explain to her how important it is that she embraces the clear consensus that we are seeing across every corner of the House. Her moment has come, just as happened with a previous Leader, now the Marquess of Salisbury, then Lord Cranborne. The leader of our party in opposition wanted to have an elected House. He informed all of us of this notion by writing an article in the Daily Telegraph. Lord Cranborne, as he then was, defied him and ensured that we ended up with a compromise of the 92 hereditary Peers and the reform that was brought in by a Labour Government. So there is a precedent for leaders—even in opposition—of this House.

I look forward to the speech by my noble friend Lord Strathclyde, who, I understand, made it a condition of his continuing in succession to Lord Cranbourne, who was sacked for his pains—in earlier times his head would have been cut off—that those proposals were taken forward. That is why we are sitting here today with the opportunity to produce a reformed House that will be respected and held in high regard by the public who have sent us here.

European Council

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Excerpts

Monday 18th December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I have said, our objective is for access to each other’s markets to continue on current terms, based on the existing structure of EU rules and regulations. The framework will mean that we will start off under the CJEU and will be under it for part of the period. But the Prime Minister has always said that if we can agree provisions that will be part of the future relationship, such as a dispute resolution mechanism, we will aim to bring them forward at an earlier stage.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, I understand that quantum mechanics says that it is possible for an electron to be in two places at the same time. Does this explain the behaviour of the Benches opposite? In the other place, an amendment to allow us to remain in the single market and the customs union proposed by Ian Murray, who used to be the shadow spokesman on Scottish affairs, was whipped against by the Labour Party and defeated by 311 votes to 76. What are we to make of the Leader of the Opposition attacking the Government for being divided when they do not know which part of their anatomy differs from the other?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

What is most important is that we are now moving into phase 2 of the negotiations, with a united Government looking for the best deal that we will achieve for the UK and the EU.

Brexit: UK Plans

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Excerpts

Monday 9th October 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

We will be leaving the EU and its institutions in March 2019 but the fact is, at that point neither the UK nor the EU will be in a position to implement smoothly many of the detailed arrangements that will underpin this relationship. We want a strictly time-limited implementation period based on the existing structure of EU rules and regulations, during which the UK and EU would continue to have access to one another’s markets on current terms and the UK would take part in existing security measures. Because we want our departure to be as smooth as possible, it does not make sense to make people and businesses plan for two sets of changes in the relationship between the UK and the EU, and we should concentrate all our negotiating time on what matters: the long-term future relationship.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend accept the view that the Prime Minister has taken an entirely consistent and reasonable line on these matters? The Leader of the Opposition talked about a feeling of déjà vu—not something we would get from the Opposition’s position, which varies from week to week. That consistency is clearly important but I ask my noble friend: how much patience does the Prime Minister have? At what point do we say, “Enough is enough” to this intransigence that we are seeing? What has happened to the duty of sincere co-operation which is part of the acquis and the requirement in the treaties? At what point are we actually going to say that these people are deliberately obfuscating and creating difficulties by refusing to enter into the wider negotiations and actually get on with preparing what is in the best interests of our country in the longer term?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I entirely agree with my noble friend about the consistency of the Prime Minister’s position. In fact, we have been putting a lot of information out to the public. We have published seven Brexit position papers, seven future partnership papers and four White Papers, including the two today, and we have set out a clear vision. We want to see progress and we are hoping, as Michel Barnier said, that we will see a “new dynamic” in the negotiations. Inevitably, leaving is a difficult process but we believe, on both sides, that it is in all our interests for the negotiations to succeed and we will continue to work on them in a spirit of good will. Having said that, we also have a duty to plan for the alternative, which we are doing, because that is what any responsible Government would do, but I reiterate that we truly believe that we will come to a deal which will be best for both of us.

European Council

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Excerpts

Monday 26th June 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I said, we believe that this is a fair and serious offer. It is one that we want to implement because we want to provide as much certainty as we can to the 3 million EU citizens in the UK and to the 1 million UK nationals in the EU, and that is what we are working towards.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend not feel that she is in a no-win position? On the one hand, people are saying that she ought to make a unilateral declaration and abandon the rights of British citizens living in Europe; on the other, she is being told that it is wrong to put forward red lines at this stage in the negotiations.

Queen’s Speech

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Excerpts

Wednesday 21st June 2017 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty as follows:

“Most Gracious Sovereign—We, Your Majesty’s most dutiful and loyal subjects, the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, beg leave to thank Your Majesty for the most gracious Speech which Your Majesty has addressed to both Houses of Parliament”.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, may I begin by thanking the Leader of the House and the Chief Whip for inviting me to move this Motion for the Humble Address? It is a singular and unexpected honour, and I confess that I feel like I did the other day when a very attractive young lady offered me her seat on the Tube. However, I imagine that my noble friend Lady Bertin—who will second the Motion—and I are part of the campaign by the Chief Whip to woo the youth vote after the result of the general election.

My first task is to express our thanks to Her Majesty the Queen for honouring our House with her presence to deliver the gracious Speech from the Throne. The whole House will also want to send our best wishes to His Royal Highness Prince Philip, who, sadly, was unable to attend this morning. We are grateful for the outstanding support which he has given to her Majesty, for his service in defence of our country, and for his contribution to countless charities and good causes. The Duke of Edinburgh’s Award scheme is but one example. It is now celebrating 60 years of offering young people the chance to shine, to serve others and to embrace new challenges and activities in more than 140 countries. There are 2.4 million recipients of the award in the United Kingdom alone, and even your Lordships may be among them. We are also grateful to His Royal Highness the Prince of Wales for his presence today. The work of the Prince’s Trust is but one of the many initiatives he has taken to the benefit of our country.

I understand that Her Majesty the Queen has never missed a day at Royal Ascot since her coronation. I hope that there was sufficient time today for her to maintain that tradition and that she will be rewarded for her outstanding devotion to duty by her horse Dartmouth repeating last year’s success and bringing her total up to an impressive 24 Royal Ascot winners. I know little about racing, and bet on horses if I like the name, so my tips for Ascot this week are: Queen’s Trust, Top Beak and Queen of Time.

At church on Sunday, our rector informed us that we were entering ordinary time in the Church’s calendar. Well, it might feel like that on the Bishops’ Benches but it certainly does not feel like that on these Benches, for it is a pretty extraordinary period in politics. Our Prime Minister, it seemed, could walk on water a few months ago and is now subject to vile attacks on all sides. She does not deserve this; nor is it in our country’s interest to trash our Prime Minister at a time of great uncertainty. She is a good, competent, Christian woman, who served for a record period as Home Secretary in a department traditionally seen as an elephants’ graveyard. She may not be a flashy PR campaigner but she has the skills and experience needed to govern and navigate the Scylla and Charybdis that is Brexit. Our national security is threatened by fanatical terrorists and the negotiations began this week to secure our future as an independent country. Alea iacta est—the die has been cast. We are, by law, leaving the European Union in March 2019, and the months ahead should be devoted to getting the best deal for jobs and prosperity for our United Kingdom. Surely we can all agree on that. I believe that we have a duty to unite behind the Prime Minister at this time in the wider interests of our country.

While fighting the election campaign, the Prime Minister had to deal with the atrocities in Manchester and Southwark, and now the appalling attack on Muslim worshippers in Finsbury Park and the unspeakable horror of the fire in Kensington. The unimaginable trauma of the men, women and children trapped in that inferno and the loss to their families has, as Her Majesty pointed out, shocked and saddened the whole country. I recall the same sickening feeling as a new Minister in the Scottish Office in 1988 when 228 oil- workers were trapped on the burning offshore platform Piper Alpha and 167 people were drowned or burned to death. The public inquiry, conducted by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Cullen of Whitekirk, reported in 13 months with 100 expert-led recommendations, which fundamentally changed the safety culture of the whole oil and gas industry—not just in the North Sea but across the world. This example of effective action is what is promised in the gracious Speech following the Grenfell Tower catastrophe. In addition, immediate measures are required to ensure that people living in high-rise buildings and social housing can be assured of their safety and that the survivors and families of the victims of this tragic fire are housed and supported in every way possible. That is what the Prime Minister has ordered should be done.

Now, let us face it: the election campaign was not the Tory party’s finest hour. There were some unexpected highlights, however. Alex Salmond—

[Noble Lords]

Oh!

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

I knew I could unite this House. Alex Salmond, in the words of his beloved “Flower of Scotland”, was sent “homeward tae think again”. He left quoting Walter Scott’s poem about my noble friend Lord Dundee’s famous Jacobite relative:

“You have not seen the last of my bonnet and me!”.


The Jacobite cry “Down with the Elector” might have been more appropriate, as the SNP lost 21, or 40%, of its seats. The Scottish Tories, led by the outstanding Ruth Davidson—who, incidentally, was first spotted by my noble friend Lady Fall—won 12 more seats and the other unionist parties a further nine. Fundraising by the SNP for a new independence referendum is reported as having been cancelled. Nicola Sturgeon says that she is considering her position on Indyref2 and our United Kingdom has been saved from further nationalist-inspired instability. The Prime Minister, by facing down their demands for a second referendum, has set back the cause of separatists—to coin a phrase—for a generation.

It looked like a good election for Labour. Indeed, it is behaving as if it won it, despite being 56 seats behind the Tories. And the new, rapturous enthusiasm on the Benches opposite for Jeremy Corbyn, is matched only by their relief that he is not running the country—go on, smile. Oh yes, Labour now certainly has momentum, but sadly for them, Momentum now has Labour. This was not in the plan. As Robert Burns explained to an 18th-century mouse:

“The best laid schemes o’ mice an’ men


Gang aft agley,

An’ lea’e us nought but grief an’ pain,

For promis’d joy!”.

In my party’s case there is little joy, as 33 good colleagues were defeated and we have lost our overall majority, despite a record number of votes. We got 318 seats and I expected 375—375 turns out to be the number of seats in which the Liberals lost their deposits campaigning for a rerun of the referendum.

This brings me to the most important commitment in the gracious Speech for this new, long Parliament: ensuring that our country takes full advantage of the opportunities open to us as we leave the European Union. There is serious work to do, and this House knows its duty and can—and I am sure will—continue to make a constructive contribution to delivering Brexit and building a new partnership with our European friends.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer has rightly emphasised the importance of securing jobs and prosperity as we leave the European Union. Free trade is central to achieving that economic objective. One thing Donald Trump and Jean-Claude Juncker have in common is their hostility to free trade. Yet the case for it is not just economic, it is a moral case. It is estimated that more than a billion lives have been lifted out of extreme poverty by trade since 1981. Encouraging free trade brings prosperity, social stability and ultimately global security.

One in 12 of the world’s population under the age of 28 is living in India, where the EU has no trade deal. Scotch whisky is subject to a massive tariff in a market a fraction of which could keep distilleries going to the crack of doom. Coffee is the second most-traded commodity after oil in the world. The entire continent of Africa exports coffee to the European Union amounting to $2.4 billion, while Germany alone earns far more at $3.8 billion on exports of coffee. How can this be? The EU customs union has no tariff on raw beans, but any added-value product is penalised. This ensures that added value is retained inside the Union and denied to poorer African countries, which results in higher prices in our shops. The EU tariff on decaffeinated coffee from a third country is subject to a duty of 9%. A similar story applies to cocoa and the duty on chocolate is even more egregious.

I welcome the commitment in the gracious Speech on mental health services. This is something the Prime Minister has championed, together with my right honourable friend Dr Liam Fox, who is particularly concerned as Secretary of State for Defence with those service men and women suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder. Norman Lamb too—I hope my mentioning him will not damage his leadership chances—has been a tireless campaigner as a Liberal Minister in the coalition Government and as a Back-Bencher. More recently, Prince William and Prince Harry have spoken out to encourage people to see mental illness like any other health issue. In this context, I urge the Government to focus on one area of great concern: the number one killer of young men in Britain today is suicide, accounting for about one-quarter of all deaths in men aged between 20 and 34. Men are three times more likely to take their own lives than women. We need to reach out to men suffering from depression and find ways to neutralise any sense of stigma or shame which may prevent them from seeking the help they need.

As a Minister of State many years ago responsible for prisons in the Home Office, and later as Secretary of State more than 20 years ago, I was acutely conscious of the number of people who end up behind bars who suffer from bipolar disorders, depression and other conditions. I recall with great sadness visiting Cornton Vale in my constituency in Stirling—which I am delighted to say has been returned to Conservative representation—on Christmas Day when another young woman had taken her life. Mental illness has been the poor relation for far too long and I am sure the whole House will support reform.

I conclude by turning to the substance of the Motion. We are surely blessed that we do not have a presidential system of government in our country, and we have been doubly blessed by the wonderful service and inspiration which Her Majesty the Queen has given to our country and the Commonwealth. Long may she reign over us. I beg to move the Motion for an Humble Address to Her Majesty.