European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Excerpts

Monday 20th February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, the supporters of Brexit have been called many things: ignorant, gullible, naive, uneducated, bigoted—the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Southwark has added a new one, which is quixotic—and much worse by people who refuse to accept the result of the referendum. I am told that social media are flooded with unending streams of abuse and four-letter words.

I believe that the four-letter word which should concern your Lordships today is duty. It is the duty of this House to consider legislation carefully, to ensure that it meets its objectives and that the drafting is appropriate and, above all—as the Leader pointed out in her excellent opening speech—to respect the primacy of the House of Commons. The Bill before us has been passed unamended and overwhelmingly by the elected House of Commons. As the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, pointed out, the judgment of the Supreme Court required the Government to obtain parliamentary authority for the notification of the UK’s withdrawal from the EU under Article 50. That is all this Bill is about—nothing more, nothing less. It will achieve that policy objective and nothing more. It is closely drawn and narrow in scope. It is our duty to pass it quickly and without amendment. The leader of the Opposition—by which I mean the leader in the other place—argued for moving Article 50 immediately on the day after the referendum result, and David Cameron had to be restrained from doing the same thing. Yet now we are having this great stramash about doing what the two leaders of the strongest parties in our country wanted to do on the day after the referendum.

Parliament voted overwhelmingly to hold a referendum on our membership of the European Union. The Government spent £9.3 million of our money on sending a leaflet to every household in the country during the campaign. It said,

“The referendum on Thursday, 23rd June is your chance to decide if we should remain in or leave the European Union … This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide”.


What part of that do those on the Liberal Benches not understand? It is our duty to ensure that that promise is kept and that the democratic decisions of the people and the House of Commons are upheld.

This brings me to the Liberal Democrats. They are opposed to the composition of this House, arguing that it lacks democratic legitimacy. Despite being reduced to a rump of nine Members in the House of Commons, more than 100 of them have landed here like beached whales noisily swimming against the democratic tide. Their hapless leader, Tim Farron, was almost alone, it seems, in welcoming Tony Blair’s ill-judged and embarrassing rallying cry on Friday for people to revolt against the decision taken by the largest number of voters in our history. How galling for Keir Starmer, who carefully and responsibly led Labour in the Commons, and how much more so for the 346 Members of the House of Commons who opposed leaving the EU but who voted for the Bill because they are democrats. They put the supremacy of the democratic mandate ahead of their personal views.

“Education, education, education”—remember that? It was once Tony Blair’s winning soundbite. Cloned from Shakespeare’s “Othello”, the original seems more appropriate today:

“Reputation, reputation, reputation! Oh, I have lost my reputation! I have lost the immortal part of myself”.


The Liberals care not if this House loses its reputation. They have the brass neck to boast in the press that they will use this place as a platform to reverse the decisions of the elected Chamber and challenge the people’s verdict in the referendum by calling for a rerun. If Brussels thought the terms of Brexit must be approved in a second referendum, then of course they have every incentive to do their worst for our country. Of course, the country the Liberals—I refuse to call them Liberal Democrats—are fighting for is the European Union and if they damage the standing of this House in the process, so much the better. [Interruption.] The Liberals ask why I refuse to call them Liberal Democrats. It is because they do not support the democratic decision taken by the British people and by the other place, but seek to subvert it.

If the Liberal Democrats’ antics are extraordinary, they have pretty strong competition from the Scottish Nationalists. They won 57 out of 59 seats in Scotland on a platform that decisions that affect Scotland should be made in Scotland. Within a year they have disgraced their supporters by singing the European national anthem in the Chamber of the House of Commons. They have refused to seize the opportunity to bring control of fishing and farming policy back to the Scottish Parliament from Brussels. Can you believe it? Not a single piece of legislation has been introduced to the Scottish Parliament since the election nearly a year ago. The only draft Bill, we are told, is one to hold another independence referendum. Like the Liberals, it seems that the parties which are most enthusiastic about holding referendums are the ones which refuse to accept the results. The party with the largest percentage of supporters voting for Brexit in Scotland was the SNP. More than a million Scots voted to leave the European Union, despite all their political leaders campaigning for remain and encouraging their elected Members who supported Brexit to keep silent. Some MSPs, like Ross Thomson, bravely campaigned for Brexit while others, like Alex Neil, the SNP Member, voted secretly to leave. For the First Minister, 1.6 million matter but a million are an inconvenient truth.



This House has an important part to play in helping our nation to make a success of Brexit, through its many Select Committees, as my noble friend Lord Boswell pointed out, and through the debates that lie ahead. There is expertise here and our reputation for cross-party co-operation and an evidence-based approach to policy is undiminished. As the noble Lord, Lord Patel, told us, we should pass the Bill and get on with that task. According to the polls, almost two-thirds of voters want Parliament to do just that. We must not let them down.

Informal European Council

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Excerpts

Monday 6th February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I have said, we believe there is good will on all sides to look at the status of both EU nationals in the UK and UK nationals in member states. We consider this a priority. We believe it is something on which we will have very constructive early discussions with our European partners. We have also said in relation to NATO—the Prime Minister discussed this over lunch—that we want to encourage other European leaders to deliver on their commitment to spend 2% of their GDP on defence. We believe that a number of European countries are actively considering that and will be looking to do it in due course.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, is it correct, as reported in the newspapers, that the Spanish leader has indicated that he would be very happy for British residents in Spain to enjoy the same rights as they do at present? If that is the case, is it not wrong to criticise the Prime Minister for arguing that we should get on with moving Article 50 so that there is an opportunity for those negotiations to continue? Could not the criticism that the Prime Minister should take a moral lead apply equally to the Spanish Prime Minister or to any of the other European leaders? The problem here is Europe refusing to guarantee the position of British citizens in Europe. My right honourable friend the Prime Minister is surely right to think about them as well as EU citizens living here.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

Certainly, the fact that the Prime Minister and the Prime Minister of Spain had constructive discussions is very positive. As I said, it shows that there is good will on all sides to try to resolve this matter as quickly as possible.

European Council: December 2016

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Excerpts

Monday 19th December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

Will my noble friend confirm that the Government accept the OBR’s figure, which is that each week’s delay in leaving the European Union costs British taxpayers more than £250 million? Therefore, will she ignore those who argue that we should delay beginning the Article 50 process?

On the subject of those European citizens who are currently living in Britain, will she reject the appalling tactics by the President of the Commission who seeks to turn it into some bargaining position? As these families gather for Christmas, would it not be right for the Government to make it clear that they will be able to stay here and continue to work and make a contribution to this country? Surely that makes sense. If the Government believe that it is a bargaining position, how on earth will they be able to exercise the rejection of these people from our country, which would carry no support in any corner of this House?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I hope I have made it clear that the Prime Minister has been very clear that her objective remains wanting to give reassurance. We have made our intentions clear and we need other European leaders to match our commitment. My noble friend is absolutely right that we need to provide certainty where we can, which is why the Prime Minister has once again reiterated to our European partners that we will be triggering Article 50 before the end of March.

Pensions: Tax Relief

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Excerpts

Tuesday 6th December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham]

The Government have consistently reduced the cost of tax relief on pensions by introducing the lifetime allowance, which has now been reduced to £1 million, and the annual allowance, which has been reduced to £40,000. This year we made further savings of up to £4 billion over the lifetime of this Parliament by saying that for those who earn over £150,000 the £40,000 relief is tapered. So we have made substantial savings in the cost of pensions tax relief.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend not agree that the whole point of pensions investment is that it should be stable and not subject to sudden changes? Have the Government not interfered enough with the pensions regime? Do we not need a period of stability?

House of Lords: Appointments Commission

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Excerpts

Monday 28th November 2016 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they intend to amend the terms of reference of the House of Lords Appointments Commission to ensure that recommendations by the leaders of political parties are treated in the same way as appointments to the Crossbenches and assessed for suitability as well as propriety.

[The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Evans of Bowes Park) (Con)]

The independent House of Lords Appointments Commission does an effective job in recommending candidates for non-party peerages and vetting for propriety all life Peer nominations, including those nominated by the UK political parties. It is right that the leaders of those political parties remain accountable for their nominations.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, I am very grateful to my noble friend for that Answer but it does not answer my Question. Non-party nominations to this House are subject to a rigorous interview process by the Appointments Commission, which looks at whether or not they have the time and the necessary skills, and looks at the overall pattern of appointments to the House in order to ensure diversity and a range of skills. Why on earth should that not happen to party-political nominations? I can think of no other appointments in this country which do not have some kind of interview to assess suitability.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I said to my noble friend, we believe that it is for political parties to be accountable for the Members appointed to their Benches, and that they should be responsible for ensuring that the people they nominate make an effective contribution. We believe that the current remit of the commission does an effective job in striking the balance between recommending independent candidates, ensuring the propriety of all nominees and maintaining the accountability of political parties for their nominations.

Infrastructure Improvements: Funding

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords—

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords—

[The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Evans of Bowes Park) (Con)]

Order. It is the turn of the Conservative Benches.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

My Lords, while congratulating the Chancellor on his excellent Statement committing to building more housing, can I ask my noble friend what is to be done about the decision by the European Banking Authority to increase the capital weighting required for loans to small housebuilders from 100% to 150%, which is greater than is required for unsecured credit card debt and will result in less availability of money for builders to build and also require banks to make provision for their existing loans? I declare my interest which is on the register.

[Lord Young of Cookham]

There is only one answer for my noble friend: I will write to him.

Strathclyde Review

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Excerpts

Thursday 17th November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

My Lords, I am under no illusions about the task that we have ahead and the role this House will play in scrutinising legislation relating to Brexit. As I said, noble Lords have already taken a constructive approach in dealing with the debates we have had so far, and I have faith that this will continue. As I said to the noble Lord, Lord McNally, we are also reliant on self-regulation and discipline to ensure the passage of legislation. We hope that that will continue.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

After what the noble Lord, Lord Jones of Birmingham, said on the “Today” programme this morning, could my noble friend confirm that this House is acutely aware of the supremacy of the other place and always will behave accordingly? I congratulate her on persuading her colleagues to accept this position. Could she make it absolutely clear that this position has been reached on the understanding, because of her advocacy, that the House continues to do so, as everyone here is determined that it will?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank my noble friend for that question, and I can indeed confirm that.

Brexit: Trade

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Excerpts

Tuesday 1st November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Mobarik]

My Lords, we are doing absolutely everything we can to achieve a smooth transition with no gap. The Australian Trade Minister has said that he would want to conclude a free trade agreement as quickly as possible after Brexit. This is the UK Government’s position, too. We are in the position of scoping discussions to move as quickly as possible.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, will my noble friend confirm that there is no EU free trade agreement with Australia; that for years it has tried and failed to achieve one; that one does not need a trade agreement in order to trade; and that once we have left the European Union, we will be able to negotiate our trade without having to satisfy 27 other countries?

[Baroness Mobarik]

Yes.

European Union and Canada: Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Excerpts

Thursday 27th October 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Mobarik]

I thank the noble Baroness for that. I think that there were several questions there and I shall attempt to answer at least one of them. The UK is unique and the deal that we negotiate will be bespoke. The relationships that Canada and the UK have with the EU are very different. We are an EU member state, whereas Canada is not. The UK is an important market for the European Union and therefore an ongoing trading relationship is in the EU’s interests.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, is my noble friend not rather tired of these Moaning Minnies? Today we learned that the economy has grown by 0.5% and has not gone into recession. We also learned that Nissan is going to build its cars in the north-east. Should we not take a positive view looking forward, and is not the lesson of the disintegration of the Canada deal that it is extremely difficult to negotiate with and involve 28 countries and 28 interests? In the future, we will be able to decide for ourselves.

[Baroness Mobarik]

I thank my noble friend for those very helpful remarks.

European Council

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean Excerpts

Wednesday 29th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

We are in a situation where, clearly, this Government campaigned for our recommendation to the British people, which was to remain in the European Union, but a majority of the British people rejected that position and decided that we should exit. This Prime Minister is working hard, between now and the point at which he is replaced, to provide as much as he can by way of factual information so that the next Prime Minister is in a strong position, as soon as possible, to outline the kind of relationship that the United Kingdom should have with the European Union. I have explained that the Article 50 process will be the formal trigger process between the United Kingdom and the European Union. As for the point at which other events will occur, once there is that clarity on the type of relationship that the next Prime Minister wishes the United Kingdom to have with the European Union—when that is presented and other contributions, whether from Parliament or anyone else, are made—I cannot say at the moment, as that will be something that the next Prime Minister has to decide.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, could my noble friend confirm that the Prime Minister is first among equals and that we do not have a presidential system of government in this country? Could she say, on behalf of the Government, for whom she speaks in this House, that any European citizen living in Britain has a right to remain here and that right will not be in any way affected by Brexit, and that the position is not negotiable? She must be aware that many people are concerned about their position and their future and surely it is the responsibility of the leadership of this Government to make it absolutely clear that there is no question mark over that.

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

I will say what I have said already—which I believe is very clear, although I understand that my noble friend is seeking from me something which goes beyond what I am able to do at this time—which is that, as things stand, nothing has changed. However, I understand and very much appreciate why he and others are raising these questions. These are things which we will have to return to, and I recognise that we will have to return to them as quickly as we can.