Zero-emission Vehicles, Drivers and HS2

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster Excerpts

Monday 16th October 2023 Commons Chamber

[Mr Harper]

The hon. Gentleman raised two points. On the first, I make no apology for basing a decision on the facts. The facts have changed—both the costs have increased and the benefits have reduced—and pouring taxpayers’ money into a scheme where that had happened would not make a lot of sense. On his second point, I am now thoroughly confused: I thought the Labour Party had now accepted that HS2 was not going to happen and that it preferred all the alternative things we wanted to spend the money on. It cannot have it both ways. If he and his colleagues want to complete the second phase of HS2, they must go and tell everybody else that they do not want to spend the money on all those other things that we are going to spend it on. We have to make choices in politics. We have made our choice. I am happy with our choice and will defend it. They cannot have it both ways.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Apologies—I inadvertently called two speakers from the Opposition side, so I will next take two from the Government side. While I am on my feet, I remind Members that we have another big statement and an important debate to come, so I urge brevity in questions and answers.

[Katherine Fletcher (South Ribble) (Con)]

When the Secretary of State is looking at Network North, which I do welcome—I thank him very much for the A582 benefit in the Ribble Valley constituency of Mr Deputy Speaker; he will be delighted with that name-check—may I encourage him to think about the structure for funding other opportunities? There is a gap in the market between very large rail schemes and those extremely small rail schemes that are too small for local councils to deliver, such as at Midge Hall in my constituency, where the trains stop at a platform and we have the nonsense of customers not being able to get on or off. Does he agree that we could look at such improvement schemes in Network North?

High Speed 2

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster Excerpts

Monday 18th September 2023 Commons Chamber

[Mr Holden]

I thank my right hon. Friend for his question. It is sometimes difficult to know what the Leader of the Opposition supports or does not support. We have had a three-way flip-flop in just the last few days. It is interesting that the hon. Member for Sheffield, Heeley (Louise Haigh), from the Opposition Front Bench, raised the fact that I am here today rather than the Secretary of State, given that the shadow Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster seems to have a very different opinion from the hon. Lady about what is going on with Labour policy.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I thank the Minister for answering the urgent question.

UK Automotive Industry

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster Excerpts

Monday 18th September 2023 Commons Chamber

[John Redwood]

The hon. Gentleman makes a very good point, and it is an additional reinforcement, but I think fleet buyers are also very conscious of the environmental requirements.

I stress that, for this to work, it has to be a popular revolution. Millions of people have to decide for themselves, having listened to the arguments and seen the products, that green products are better than the old products, and in some cases they very clearly are and people will rush out to buy them. If we are still in a world in which people are not of that view, we can subsidise, tax and lecture all we like, but people will not change their mind.

One of the ways in which businesses and people could get around any attempt by this Government or a future Government to ban all sales of new petrol and diesel vehicles in 2030, when the rest of the world is not doing so, is that people will set up businesses to import nearly new petrol and diesel cars from places that still sell them and make them, to sell them as second-hand cars on the UK market. I do not believe anyone is suggesting that we ban the sale of second-hand diesel and petrol cars, as that would immediately remove all the value from our cars, meaning that we are prisoners—we either run the car until it falls to pieces or we lose its value and are unable to make the changes we would normally make.

There will have to be a definition of what is a new car, and it will presumably have something to do with how long ago it was made and/or how many miles it has on the clock. Whatever the definition, there will then be a good opportunity for people to sell cars that are four months old, rather than three months old, or that have 3,000 miles on the clock instead of 500 delivery miles. There would be a nearly new market, but the cars would all be imports, because people here would try to obey the law.

I urge all politicians to remember that they cannot just lecture, ban, tax or subsidise people into doing things unless the product has an underlying merit that people can see. Can we please work with the industry to prove that underlying merit? And do not ban things in the meantime, because Britain will lose jobs and factories. We cannot save the electric vehicle until the electric vehicle saves itself.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I call the SNP spokesperson.

Buses: Funding

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster Excerpts

Wednesday 17th May 2023 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Richard Holden)]

With permission, Madam Deputy Speaker, I wish to make a statement on the steps that the Government are taking to ensure that bus travel remains accessible and affordable for everyone, while bearing down on the cost of living.

Let me start by summarising the situation as we find it. People across the country are facing massive cost of living pressures following Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine. That is why we have a commitment to halve inflation this year to ease the cost of living and give people greater financial security. For the bus sector, that comes on the back of a global pandemic that saw passenger numbers drop to as low as 10% of their pre-pandemic levels. However, bus journeys are now recovering to around 90% of their pre-pandemic levels outside of London. Taking the bus remains the most popular form of public transport, and millions of people rely on these vital services every day.

Local bus networks provide great access to work, education and medical appointments, driving economic growth across the country. They can be a lifeline for those for whom travelling by car or other forms of public transport is simply not possible. That is why over the past three years we have invested more than £3 billion to support and improve bus services in England outside of London. That level of investment was a sign of the times, but today, we need to move out from underneath the shadow of covid-19, where the sudden absence of passengers made it necessary for the Government to step in, first through the covid-19 bus service support grant, and later through the bus recovery grant.

We face a challenge to return the network to its pre-pandemic footing while confronting fundamental changes to travel patterns, but buses remain a critical part of our transport infrastructure for many people, especially outside London in suburban and rural areas. Billions in Government funding has been made available to keep fares down and to keep services up and running. Bus routes have been kept alive where they may have proven so uneconomic that they risked being scrapped altogether. Without them, whole communities would have lost out, risking people becoming totally disconnected, especially older and more vulnerable people. While we have seen overall patronage recover to around 90% of pre-pandemic levels, concessionary fares continue to lag significantly behind. We recognise that we can maximise opportunities to bring concessionary passengers back to the bus, and I will return to that point later.

Supporting bus services at their lowest ebb was the right thing to do. However, if the public purse alone props up bus services, that would not be a funding model; it would just be a failing business. It is not the business of this Government to allow our buses to fail. We must reform bus funding in the long term, and we will work with the sector to better understand the impact before moving ahead with any implementation. We must adapt to new levels of patronage, acknowledge that there are extremely challenging financial circumstances and balance the needs of taxpayers, the travelling public, operators and local authorities. All parts of the sector have their role to play.

The Government will play our part. Today, I can announce a long-term approach to protect bus services, keep travel affordable and support the bus sector’s long-term recovery. I can announce that the Government will provide: an additional £300 million over the next two years to protect vital routes until April 2025; £150 million between June 2023 and April 2024; and, another £150 million between April 2024 and April 2025.

Some £160 million of that funding will be earmarked for local transport authorities through the new bus service improvement plan plus—a mechanism to improve bus services while empowering local authorities to make the call on how services are planned and delivered. It comes in addition to the existing £1 billion of funding through the national bus strategy that has already been allocated. BSIP+ will be focused on communities that did not previously benefit from BSIP allocations. In addition, a further £140 million will be provided to operators through the bus service operators grant plus mechanism, supporting them with the services they run.

This package means that passengers can continue to rely on their local bus to get around. Alongside it, we will consult with operators and local authorities on measures to modernise and futureproof bus funding for the long term. This is part of the Government’s vision to improve connectivity through the bus services that this country relies upon. This funding and our bus vision will grow the economy, creating better-paid jobs and opportunities in every part of the country.

At a time when the cost of living is a challenge for many, we also recognise that price is a key barrier to growth. The more affordable travel is, the more likely passengers are to get on board. We understand that every penny counts. The Government stepped up during the pandemic with support for businesses and their workers with low-cost loans and, most vitally, the furlough scheme. Following Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine and the knock-on inflation caused by the energy price shock, we again stepped up. We have delivered an energy package of more than £90 billion, literally paying half the energy bills of households across the country, with extra support for the most vulnerable. We will halve inflation this year to ease the cost of living pressures and give people financial security. We will grow the economy, creating better-paid jobs and opportunity right across the country.

In transport, we also understand the pressures placed on people’s finances. That is why we cut fuel duty by 5p a litre, kept train fare rises significantly below inflation and introduced the “Get Around for £2” bus scheme nationwide and provided the funding for local authorities in Greater Manchester, West Yorkshire and elsewhere to do the same. The nationwide scheme was initially for three months until 31 March this year. I then extended it until 30 June. Today, I can also inform the House that the Government will provide a further £200 million to continue capping single fares at £2 in England outside London until 31 October 2023. After that, we will continue to support bus passengers with the cost of living. We will replace the £2 cap with a £2.50 fare cap until 30 November 2024, when the Government will review the effectiveness of future bus fares.

Since the £2 cap was introduced, it has saved passengers millions of pounds, boosted businesses and put bums on bus seats across the country. This decision builds on the Government’s help for households initiative and supports everyone through the cost of living increases, especially those on the lowest incomes, who take nearly three times as many bus trips as those on higher incomes. It puts money back into people’s pockets and keeps them connected to key local services. It encourages millions of passengers to get back on the bus by knocking close to a third off the average single fare, and more for longer journeys. Taking that forward, my officials will work with the sector to confirm operators’ participation in the scheme. We will also undertake a review of bus fares at the end of November 2024 to support the sector in moving to a sustainable, long-term footing.

In conclusion, what I have shared with the House today is part of the largest Government investment in bus services for a generation. It exceeds our bus back better commitments by half a billion pounds, providing certainty to industry, securing value for taxpayers, protecting access to vital public services, delivering our priority to grow the economy, and helping people with the cost of living. All the while, we will work with the sector to reform bus funding in the long term. We will work towards affordable and reliable bus services for everyone, everywhere, all at once. That is what the travelling public deserves, and that is this Government’s ambition. I commend this statement to the House.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I call the shadow Secretary of State.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Holden]

It was delightful to hear the shadow Secretary of State’s prepared attack lines, because I do not think she actually listened to the statement. We are exceeding the bus back better commitment by £500 million. I note that the hon. Lady did not mention the fact that Sheffield city region is getting £3.15 million today—[Interruption.] If the hon. Lady would let me speak, rather than shout at me from a sedentary position, she might actually learn something. Stoke, which she mentioned, has already had £31.6 million in BSIP funding. Hampshire, which she also mentioned, is also getting £3.6 million today.

The hon. Lady talked about her plan for the devolution of powers, but we have already done that. She does not seem to be paying any attention to what is happening in her own area of South Yorkshire, which has received £570 million. Greater Manchester is receiving over £1 billion over five years. That was never delivered by Labour in government, but delivered by this Conservative party right across the country. There are sustainable transport schemes and city region sustainable transport settlements—all delivered with money from this Government—[Interruption.] She shouts that this is about Labour Mayors, but we have done deals with Conservative Mayors and Labour Mayors. I do not care about party politics; I want to deliver for bus users right across this country.

That is different from the ideological approach taken by the hon. Lady, who seems to think that if everything was under total state control, everything would be better. We know from the past that that is not true. We want to deliver for people up and down the country. That is why we are extending the £2 bus fare, delivering for people on the lowest incomes right across the country. I know that the hon. Lady is in the pocket of the train drivers’ unions, but I suggest that she stand up for working people right across the country, the majority of whom use bus services.

Today, we are delivering £500 million of extra support and for an extra two years, not only for the cost of living, but for bus services right across the country. I think the hon. Lady would do well to follow our example and think of the long term, rather than ideological and political attacks.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I call the Chair of the Select Committee on Transport.

[Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con)]

I warmly welcome this announcement, not least because the Minister has taken on board the recommendations made in the Transport Committee’s March report on the national bus strategy. It is right to focus on the necessary longer-term reforms, and I particularly welcome the intervention on BSIPs, which the Committee found were a mixed bag across the country. Some are working very well, but other authorities were not able to deliver a good plan. Will the Minister assure me that his officials will work with local authorities to design good new bus strategies for the areas that do not have one?

--- Later in debate ---

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I call the SNP spokesperson.

[Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)]

In principle, I welcome today’s announcement on fares by the Government. Anything that helps to make bus travel more attractive and drives modal shift is to be welcomed. [Interruption.] Just wait—there’s more!

In Scotland, we have taken a different approach, and extended free bus travel to include every Scottish resident under the age of 22. The feedback thus far is that we are seeing a big increase in travel among those groups, getting them in the habit of taking the bus and normalising public transport. However, when it comes to real investment and spending on bus infrastructure, I am afraid the DFT is still lagging well behind. Of the 3,500 buses farcically claimed by the UK Government as helping meet their target of 4,000 zero-emission buses for England outside London, nearly a fifth are funded by the Scottish Government, over whom the Minister has zero jurisdiction. He is using the success of the Scottish Government and others to cover for their own failure.

Incidentally, four weeks ago the Secretary of State promised the House that he place a letter in the Library setting out the details of the pledge and of delivery thus far, but we are yet to see that letter placed in the Library.

In Scotland, ScotZEB 2—the Scottish zero-emission bus challenge fund 2—was announced just this week, providing another £58 million to further enhance and improve bus services across the country, including in my own constituency. This will bring Scotland’s zero-emission bus fleet up to about the equivalent of 8,000 buses in England. In contrast, of the 1,342 buses in England outside London claimed as funded under the ZEBRA—zero-emission bus regional areas—scheme, only six are on the road. If I looked out of the window of my constituency office in Renfrew, in 15 minutes I would see more zero-emission buses passing by, serving passengers and contributing to the net zero transition, than are actually on the road through this Government’s ZEBRA scheme.

Will the Minister do the right thing, unlock the logjam in the ZEBRA scheme in England and at least try to catch up with its success in Scotland, and will he confirm that every penny spent as a result of this announcement will be subject to Barnett consequentials to allow the Scottish Government to continue their investment in our public transport network—investment that builds for an electric future?

HS2: Revised Timetable and Budget

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster Excerpts

Tuesday 14th March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (Ind)]

HS2 is turning into the predictable generational financial black hole of which many warned at the outset. Scotland and Northern Ireland are protected because they receive full Barnett consequentials, but, as we heard earlier, Wales is given a 0% rating. As a result, our Department for Transport comparability factor currently starts at only 36.6%, which means considerably less money for the Welsh Government to spend on transport. Is not the reality that unless this issue is addressed in one way or another—by devolving the responsibility for funding Network Rail to Wales, if that is what it takes—Welsh transport infrastructure faces decades of further under-investment, and Welsh taxpayers are being thoroughly swindled?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I am not sure there was a question there.

[Huw Merriman]

I think I got the gist, Madam Deputy Speaker. The reality is that the control period will see more than £40 billion spent on renewals across England and Wales, but, as I said earlier, Scotland has to find that funding for itself, and that is where the Barnett consequentials come in. There are no plans in the foreseeable future to change the manner in which we fund the network in the way that the hon. Gentleman described.

Seafarers’ Wages Bill [Lords]

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster Excerpts

Monday 19th December 2022 Commons Chamber

[Iain Stewart]

That is a fair question. I was reassured by the Secretary of State’s answer that the Government have thought about that. That is why the Secretary of State has the power to intervene when he thinks that the harbour authority has a conflict of interest. I am sure that it will be explored further in Committee. I was satisfied on that point; my concern was with regard to a vessel that might skip around different ports or adjust the timetable, as was mentioned, to get around that. I am not saying that the MCA is the most appropriate body, but I would like to check that.

The third point I want to raise is on the minimum wage corridor that the Secretary of State mentioned. The joint Select Committee session flagged this up. Work is ongoing with a number of European countries to try to establish those, but an update on how those discussions are going would be welcome. This is a good Bill and I welcome it. It is not the full solution but is a very welcome step forward.

Finally, if you would indulge me a minute, Madam Deputy Speaker, this is probably the last time I will speak in the Chamber this year. May I add my good wishes to all the staff of the House for Christmas and the new year? I particularly thank the Clerk of the Transport Committee and her staff who have made me so welcome as the new Chair and have been very helpful steering me in the right direction.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I call the Scottish National party spokesperson.

Rail Cancellations and Service Levels

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster Excerpts

Thursday 1st December 2022 Commons Chamber

[Huw Merriman]

My right hon. Friend makes a great bid that is linked into this matter. I am happy to meet him and my hon. Friend the Member for Cleethorpes (Martin Vickers) to discuss that further. He is absolutely right that we see a knock-on effect. Take Northern, for example. It has been less impacted by the matters I have referenced than TPE and Avanti, but the knock-on from those operators—particularly TPE—has caused it to fall in parts as well. He is absolutely right to point out that contagion can pass from one part of the network to another. I will happily meet him.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I call the SNP spokesperson.

[Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)]

Over the past two days, TransPennine Express has managed to run a total of 42% of its timetabled cross-border services from Glasgow Central. That is from a timetable that was already slashed, as TPE struggled to provide even a basic service to passengers. Add to that the Avanti shambles and cross-border services are a disaster. It simply is not good enough, and there are real implications for the cross-border economy.

Two separate industrial disputes involving ScotRail and the Scottish Government have been resolved this year, in contrast to the ongoing disputes across talks that have dragged on for months and are only now involving Government Ministers. The RMT’s general secretary Mick Lynch said yesterday:

“In Scotland and Wales, RMT has settled similar disputes with the support of the governments there but where companies are controlled by the DfT, time is running out.”

Previous Ministers have stood at the Dispatch Box and told us that disputes were for the talks and Network Rail to resolve, but clearly that stance is no longer fit for purpose. This Government are letting down Scotland and the north of England, and it is now well past time for rail to be fully devolved to Scotland. Will this welcome new and shiny team at the DFT meet me to discuss how we advance that?

Night Flights: Impact on Communities

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster Excerpts

Tuesday 8th November 2022 Commons Chamber

[Sarah Olney]

Yes.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Order. I think the hon. Member needs to answer one intervention before taking another.

[Sarah Olney]

The hon. Member for Brentford and Isleworth (Ruth Cadbury) makes an excellent point, and she and I share views on this issue.

Avanti West Coast

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster Excerpts

Wednesday 7th September 2022 Commons Chamber

[Trudy Harrison]

This Government are absolutely backing the rail sector, with more than £90 billion being invested in the integrated rail service. Great British Railways will seek to address many of these challenges, not least the modernisation of the workforce, which is absolutely necessary. I have absolutely not condemned the workers for this situation, but the fact remains that workers have been willing to work on their rest days for something like 20 years and they are no longer willing to do so, certainly with Avanti. We need to find a solution to that challenge, working with the unions but also recruiting more drivers and a more diverse set of drivers, and ensuring that we have drivers who are trained to safely, affordably and reliably operate the train service we all want—particularly this Conservative Government.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I thank the Minister for answering the urgent question.

High Speed Rail (Crewe - Manchester) Bill

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster Excerpts

2nd reading
Monday 20th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[Sir William Cash (Stone) (Con)]

The hon. Member for Slough (Mr Dhesi) had the brass neck to refer to this strike as a Tory rail strike. I have never seen a rail strike more inspired by the Labour party than any other policy that I have heard of in the last generation.

The Minister will be very well aware of my long-standing reservations about HS2—I have made my point on this already today—and of why I am convinced that the project, as currently proposed, has no chance of achieving the objectives that the Government have set for it in terms of creating improved rail connectivity, increased capacity on the west coast main line, real economic prosperity and value for the many billions of pounds being spent on it.

I am also profoundly disturbed and deeply disappointed that the Government have failed to revisit the collapsing economic case for this project in the light of changing travelling and working practices following the covid pandemic, and to cancel the HS2 project, or at least everything north of Birmingham, in favour of targeting public transport investment to the areas of the country that really need it. Only yesterday, I heard the Secretary of State say, in relation to this rail strike, that fewer people will be using rail because of the amount time that is spent on Zoom calls and because of the changes in business practices. That is an important and relevant point.

I am also dismayed about the haste at which the Phase 2b Bill is being brought before the House for its Second Reading, especially as it has only just been announced that the project will be subject to 20 substantive amendments, including the removal of the Golborne link. My concern is that these changes should be the subject of formal consultation. The public are entitled to be granted sufficient time to formally respond in writing before Second Reading and before the formal petitioning process begins.

I ask the Minister to take the opportunity of making better use of the public investment given to the HS2 project by ensuring that the company responsible for it, together with his departmental officials, adopt the best possible and most cost-effective engineering design solutions for the project. Sadly, from experience, I know that that is not proving to be the case, as HS2 management and Department for Transport officials seem unwilling to fulfil the commitments that the Minister has made to me and my constituents. They are therefore frustrating the promised independent and impartial review of our proposals for an alternative railhead and maintenance base to replace the unworkable and calamitous proposals that HS2 seems hell-bent on imposing on Stone, my constituency, and nearby communities.

Incontrovertible evidence has been compiled by my constituents to demonstrate that their alternative solution would remove tens of thousands of HS2’s construction lorries from the local road network in Staffordshire, North Shropshire and Cheshire, while also eliminating any need to construct the Ashley railhead and the two proposed Phase 2b maintenance facilities at Ashley and the Crewe North rolling stock depot. Not only would my constituents’ proposals save £650 million of public money, but, were less than half of that sum to be reinvested in the reopening of an eight-mile section of the North Staffordshire railway between the west coast main line and Stoke station, it would create the best and most cost-effective levelling-up opportunity in the country.

With the Government now having confirmed their decision to remove the Golborne link from a phase 2 hybrid Bill, the capacity on the west coast main line through and to the north of Crewe station will be significantly reduced. As a consequence, phase 2b will achieve the precise opposite of what is intended. The public therefore ask, “What is the point of phase 2b?”. I have much sympathy with such viewpoints, as do my Cheshire colleagues, whose constituents’ lives will be so blighted by this project.

However, if the Government remain determined to continue with this expensive folly, let us at least get something positive out of it. The only way to do that is to ensure that Crewe station gets the full upgrade it requires to overcome the capacity constraints that will be imposed on it and on the west coast main line by HS2. That will require new platforms to be constructed on the independent lines on the western side of the station.

Combined with the reopening of the North Staffordshire railway, the improvements at Crewe station would for the first time enable multiple train services to cross the west coast main line and enable services from north Wales and the north-west to connect to north Staffordshire and Stoke-on-Trent and thereafter to link to the east midlands, Yorkshire, East Anglia and the east coast. Such a bold plan would put a huge part of the population of the north of England in direct rail contact with four international airports and create a direct freight line between Liverpool and several east coast ports, while putting both Crewe and the Potteries at the centre of this new transport and economic activity.

Finally, the Minister knows that he has an open invitation to visit my constituency and meet me and my constituents. I urge him to take up that offer as soon as possible so that we can demonstrate to him first-hand how our proposals will provide the unique short, medium and long-term levelling-up benefits that the population of my own and many other constituencies so richly deserve.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I call the SNP spokesperson.