Business of the House

Alun Cairns Excerpts

Thursday 24th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

The hon. Gentleman is right—I am very familiar with the issues at the trust and had opportunities in the past to meet the staff and visit Furness general hospital. I will not venture any view about the outcome of the review, but I shall certainly ask my right hon. and hon. Friends at the Department of Health to correspond with him and give him an idea about the process and any emerging conclusions.

[Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con)]

The Secretary of State for Education has taken significant steps to reintroduce rigour into the examination system, yet my constituents will not necessarily benefit from that because of the devolved settlement and the different approaches taken in different parts of the UK. May we have a debate on the examination system to provide clarity and certainty to employers and universities who want to know the differences in the approaches of the various authorities around the UK?

[Mr Lansley]

My hon. Friend makes an important point, not least because he speaks from a Welsh perspective. There was recently a debate in Opposition time on reform of the exam system, which provided an opportunity for my right hon. and hon. Friends in the Department to demonstrate that our reforms are replacing GCSEs with rigorous world-class examinations, for example. We are setting out to ensure not only that standards are set and maintained in core subjects but that our examination system and curriculum match the best in the world.

Business of the House

Alun Cairns Excerpts

Thursday 29th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

I am interested in what the hon. Lady says, but I am sure she will understand that I am not in a position to comment on it without any direct knowledge of those issues. From her description, she should bear in mind not only the question of whether that is a suitable topic for debate in the House, but the fact that, as I know from having served on the Standing Committees of the Competition Bill and the Enterprise Bill in previous Parliaments, legislation is in place that allows her and others who have evidence to go to the Office of Fair Trading for investigation of those practices.

[Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con)]

The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport secured appropriate terms for all mobile operators in the forthcoming auction, and significant investment has been made in fixed-line broadband throughout the whole of the UK. May we have a debate on the progress of broadband roll-out to learn about the best practice in some of the areas that have operated faster than others and to ensure that the scale and terms of those contracts are suitable to deliver competition?

[Mr Lansley]

My hon. Friend is right. He refers to the digital switchover, which was a major programme delivered on time and under budget with few complaints about it—a very good example of collaboration. We will now have the benefit of the spectrum auction that is coming up. Through that and other routes, the broadband roll-out across the country can be a major contributor to growth. I hope it will be achieved rapidly and on time, and in a way that is stimulated by competition.

Business of the House

Alun Cairns Excerpts

Thursday 22nd November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

My hon. Friend will be aware, because we discussed the subject when I was Secretary of State for Health, that the supply chain for medicines is very complicated, and that it can be a very small number of medicines that are in short supply at any given moment, sometimes for reasons outside anyone’s control. For example, recently there were fires in Italy, which led to the inability to access the right medicines at the right time; but in so far as it can be managed, the Department has been pursuing supply chain initiatives that are intended to enable that to happen. I will talk to my hon. Friends at the Department of Health. I know they will want to be as helpful as they possibly can be in showing how we can improve reassurance for patients about their access to medicines.

[Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con)]

The currency or value of GCSEs has been undermined over the past 15 years or so. Atlantic college, based in my constituency, established the international baccalaureate some 50 years ago, and has maintained the rigour of that qualification. May we have a general debate on qualifications, to expose the failure over the past 15 years and to learn from other organisations how we can maintain rigour in our qualification system?

Business of the House

Alun Cairns Excerpts

Thursday 25th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

To be honest, in this context I suspect that the hon. Gentleman would be better to instigate a search for the credibility of the First Minister in Scotland, because as far as I can see, earlier in the year he was saying that he had legal advice, but then it turned out that he had not even asked for it. As the Prime Minister quite rightly said yesterday at Prime Minister’s questions, that just exposes the lack of credibility of the arguments being presented by the Scottish National party for the break-up of the Union.

[Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con)]

My Twitter feed is often packed with comments from Opposition Members whenever there is negative economic news, but today it is remarkably empty. Will my right hon. Friend arrange a debate on the economy so that we can discuss today’s data as well as recent positive data?

[Mr Lansley]

My hon. Friend makes a good point. Although parliamentary time is tight, it is awfully tempting to arrange a debate on the economic figures—on growth, employment, inflation and borrowing. I fear, however, that we might not be able to do so. I reiterate the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Croydon Central (Gavin Barwell): as the Opposition have time available in the week after next, perhaps they might like to debate the issues.

House of Lords Reform Bill

Alun Cairns Excerpts

Tuesday 10th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con)]

As a strong supporter of the coalition Government and the need for strong government at a time of financial crisis, I find myself in the extremely difficult position of not being able to support them this evening. Within the limited time frame available, it would be difficult to go into all the reasons now. We have heard excellent speeches by Members in all parts of the House. I want to focus on two key issues in the Bill: first, the primacy of the House of Commons; and secondly, the impact on elected Members of this House and their relationship with their constituents.

At a general election, through the first-past-the-post system, the public will decide to support or change the Government. The Government will generally get their way through the manifesto. The other place holds the Government to account according to the manifesto. It will offer advice and often slow things down to enable the Government in the House of Commons to rethink, but by convention this House will always get its way. Electing Members to the other place will change that. The relationship between both places will change, and election to the other House will give its elected Members the moral right to reject legislation that comes from this place. Conventions that have developed and evolved over many generations will become a thing of the past.

Think of it, Mr Deputy Speaker. A new Government might find that they cannot get their way. There will be constitutional deadlock and the ping-pong that we have experienced on some occasions will become commonplace. Some Members argue that that is not the case and that the Parliament Acts will preserve the primacy of this House. However, using the Parliament Acts will become commonplace. It will no longer be a significant step, but merely part of the normal process of any Government in this House who seek to get their way and to force their legislation through.

That means that the elected Members in the other place will be second-class citizens. If this House can simply force its will through, time and again, on every piece of legislation because the Members of the other place are not important enough to make a difference, why should Members of this House show them any respect at all? That will create an unsustainable situation.

The second element of my speech, in the limited time that I have, relates to the relationship that there will be between elected Members in the other place, Members of Parliament and our constituents. I have been a regional Member of the Welsh Assembly and have observed the activities of regional Assembly Members of all parties. The result will be that our constituents will have several elected Members who are responsible for the same areas of policy and legislation.

Regional Members will have a habit of picking and choosing the issues that they think are the most important and most popular. They will deal with significant issues when it suits them and will be nowhere to be seen when there are awkward and uncomfortable issues for the electorate. They will accept all the credit, but none of the responsibility. That will undermine the role of the Member of Parliament in relation to their constituents and weaken the Member of Parliament.

The relationship between the Member of Parliament and the elected Members in the other place will become competitive. Regional Members will focus on specific areas in marginal seats. There is nothing in the legislation to prevent an elected Member of the other House from spending all their time and resources in the most marginal part of the most marginal constituency in an attempt to further their cause of being elected to this place.

[Jake Berry (Rossendale and Darwen) (Con)]

I am sure that my hon. Friend is aware that that issue is covered in the Bill. There will be a bar on people going straight from the other place into this House should it become an Act of Parliament.

[Alun Cairns]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his contribution. However, the activities of a regional Member will certainly undermine the activities of a Member of Parliament. I will give two examples from the Welsh Assembly. One regional Assembly Member opened two constituency offices in one marginal seat, even though they had responsibility for two thirds of the geography of Wales. Another regional Assembly Member focused all their activities, surgeries, street surgeries and campaign meetings on the most marginal area of the most marginal seat to further their party’s cause. It can therefore be done on an individual or party basis. We should bear it in mind that the elected Members of the other place will by and large be party appointments, so they will be able to focus all of their activity in that way.

The reforms will undermine the independence of the other place and its Members, and lead to constitutional deadlock between the two Houses.

Business of the House

Alun Cairns Excerpts

Thursday 14th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Sir George Young]

I was at Defence questions on Monday, where the future of the regiments was raised. Speaking from memory, I believe that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State said that work was still under way on the appropriate configuration. There is a Westminster Hall debate on Armed Forces day next Tuesday, which may be an opportunity for the hon. Gentleman to raise the matter when a Defence Minister will be responding.

[Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con)]

The previous Government left Wales as the only nation in the UK without a single mile of electrified railway. Many Government Members are lobbying the Secretary of State for Transport about the electrification of the railways. May we have a statement on the matter to find out her latest thinking?

[Sir George Young]

If I remember rightly, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport has announced the electrification of the Great Western line to Cardiff. I am sure that that has been well received in Wales. There will be an opportunity the next time we have Transport questions to press the Government on their plans to invest further in the railways in Wales. Alternatively, my hon. Friend could seek a debate on the matter in Westminster Hall or on the Adjournment of the House.

Ministerial Code (Culture Secretary)

Alun Cairns Excerpts

Wednesday 13th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Ms Harriet Harman (Camberwell and Peckham) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House believes that the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport should be referred to the Independent Adviser on Ministers’ Interests to investigate whether he breached paragraph 1.2c (giving accurate and truthful information to Parliament) and paragraph 3.3 (responsibility for his special adviser) of the Ministerial Code.

This debate takes place while the Leveson inquiry is doing its work, but I make it clear that the motion before the House is not about the issues that are the subject of the inquiry; today’s motion is about the rights of the House and the ministerial code, issues that Lord Justice Leveson made clear he is not going to consider and report on. Indeed, he cannot consider those matters, because article 9 of the Bill of Rights prevents him from so doing.

It was right to establish the Leveson inquiry. Its work is of huge importance and, after Lord Justice Leveson has reported, we will need to place great weight on his proposals and to give them deep consideration. We have, arising out of his inquiry, an historic opportunity to create a better settlement for the future, and I look forward to us all working together to achieve that, but that is not what the motion before us is about.

This debate is about protecting the rights of this House so that we can do the job we were elected to do—of holding Ministers to account and ensuring high standards in ministerial office, as set out in the ministerial code.

The ministerial code is not just a matter for the Prime Minister; it is a matter for this House. The motion before the House asks that the Secretary of State be referred to the independent adviser on Ministers’ interests, and nothing in Sir Alex Allan’s reply to the Prime Minister today changes that. There are two issues at stake here: misleading the House and failing to take responsibility for his special adviser.

[Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con)]

Sir Alex Allan’s response clearly said—[Interruption.] I am reading from the letter that was placed in the Library of the House, which clearly states:

“I do not believe that I could usefully add to the facts in the case”.

Does not that undermine the statements that the right hon. and learned Lady has just made?

[Ms Harman]

The process is that where there is a prima facie case—where there are facts—it is for the independent adviser to look at those facts and to make a judgment about whether the ministerial code—

[Alun Cairns]

rose—

[Ms Harman]

Will the hon. Gentleman just let me finish?

It is for the independent adviser to make a judgment on whether the ministerial code has been breached so that he can advise the Prime Minister on whether, in his view, there has been such a breach. That is due process. When there are facts out there that tend to indicate a breach of the code, the process is to have the independent adviser able not only to hear the argument from the person in respect of whom a breach has been alleged but to look at the facts that are out there. That is the process by which the Prime Minister can then make his decision.

It is very telling that the Prime Minister is doing everything he can to stop that process taking place. That is why—

[Alun Cairns]

rose—

[Ms Harman]

I will not take another intervention from the hon. Gentleman, but I would say to him as a Back Bencher—

--- Later in debate ---

[Ms Harman]

I will proceed, if I may.

Despite the interventions, I know that Members in all parts of the House regard the question of truth, accuracy and full disclosure to Parliament as fundamental. We cannot settle for anything less if we are to hold Ministers to account. Putting it at its very lowest, there is prima facie evidence that the Secretary of State failed to give accurate and truthful information to the House.

On 3 March 2011—[Interruption.] I ask hon. Members to bear with me while I set out what I believe to be the facts at issue. On 3 March 2011, in reply to the hon. Member for Banbury (Tony Baldry), the Secretary of State told the House that in respect of his handling of the Murdoch bid for BSkyB he had published

“all the documents relating to all the meetings—all the consultation documents, all the submissions we received, all the exchanges between my Department and News Corporation.”—[Official Report, 3 March 2011; Vol. 524, c. 526.]

I have here the documents that he published on that day. Many of them, such as written ministerial statements, the European intervention notice and press releases from the European Commission, were already in the public domain.

But when the Murdochs came to give evidence to the Leveson inquiry, we discovered that all the exchanges had not been published. No: there had been literally hundreds of exchanges between the Secretary of State’s Department and News Corporation that he had not published. Over the course of many months, both when the bid was the responsibility of the Business Secretary and when it was his responsibility, there had been literally hundreds of exchanges—texts, e-mails, reports of phone calls—none of which had been disclosed to this House. So while on 3 March 2011 we were told that the pile was only this big, a full year later, on 24 April, and thanks only to the Leveson inquiry, we discovered that it was this big. Even though the Secretary of State says that he did not know of the volume and content of the exchanges between his special adviser and News Corporation, he did know of their existence, because, as he told the House on 25 April, he had authorised those exchanges.

There is a second occasion where there is prima facie evidence of the Secretary of State not being accurate and truthful to the House. In answer to a question from my hon. Friend the Member for East Lothian (Fiona O’Donnell) during his statement to the House on 25 April, he said that he

“made absolutely no interventions seeking to influence a quasi-judicial decision that was at that time the responsibility of the Secretary of State for Business.”—[Official Report, 25 April 2012; Vol. 543, c. 973.]

But it emerged during evidence to the Leveson inquiry that on 19 November 2010, when it was—

[Alun Cairns]

Will the right hon. and learned Lady give way?

[Ms Harman]

I am trying to set out—[Interruption.]

--- Later in debate ---

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

Justice must not only be done, but must manifestly be seen to be done—Lord Justice Hewart’s pronouncement is fundamental. It applies to our courts, and it should apply to Ministers acting in a quasi-judicial capacity. The integrity of a Minister’s decision-making process depends substantially on that process being accepted by those who observe it. That is especially so when the decision is one with a high public profile, and few processes have a higher public profile than this process has had.

Out there, people are saying to me that the Secretary of State has no credibility considering the integrity of the process that he followed. We know that he was in favour of the News International bid, and that from the outset he made proposals supporting its acquiring BSkyB. We have heard today, and he has confirmed from the Dispatch Box, that he was making representations to the Prime Minister to meet the Business Secretary. Will he intervene on me to say that he did not make such a representation? The reason he is not coming to the Dispatch Box to intervene is that he knows that he made that representation—a memo to the Prime Minister asking to meet the Business Secretary, which he should not have done. That was his evidence to the Leveson inquiry.

[Alun Cairns]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Ian Lucas]

I will not give way at this point.

We know what the Secretary of State’s views were at the outset, and we know that the facts disclose that he is not an impartial Culture Secretary. We also know that he does not support the people who worked with him in carrying out his ministerial role. We know that he nominated Adam Smith to manage the relationship with News International. He did not, on the other hand, appoint anyone to manage the relationship with people opposed to the proposal, and the level of contact with opponents of the proposal was in no measure anywhere near that with News International.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Whittingdale]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right that the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport was put in a difficult position because he was given responsibility after expressing a view, but I do not agree that he was the wrong person to be given that responsibility. This was such an important matter that almost anybody given the responsibility would have had a view. The important thing is that, having been given the responsibility, he put aside his view and judged the matter clearly and solely on the advice he received. That was precisely what he did.

[Alun Cairns]

Will my hon. Friend confirm that the letter from the Secretary of State to the Prime Minister was made available to the permanent secretary and the Cabinet Secretary when they advised the Prime Minister on whether the Secretary of State could take responsibility?

[Mr Whittingdale]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. It has been made clear that the decision to pass responsibility to my right hon. Friend was made after he had indicated that he was on record expressing a view on the merits of the bid before he was given that responsibility.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Sutcliffe]

My right hon. Friend the Member for Southampton, Itchen raised that point in his questions to the Secretary of State. He also raised the issue of the relationship between the Secretary of State and the special adviser. I am beginning to support the ideas of the Chairman of the Public Administration Committee. If an independent adviser had had an opportunity to see that there was a problem—because it was a problem raised by Members in all parts of the House—that person could have investigated further. That was not the situation. I ask Members of all parties to consider how the public see this matter in relation to the wider issues. The press have taken a view, but how do the public get to find out what has taken place?

I have been a strong supporter of this House over many years, and believe we should be able to inquire about things through our Select Committee processes and so forth. As a Minister, I was happy to appear before Select Committees. There is an untold story here, however, and until it is told, with the opportunity for questioning, we will never know what happened. That is a terrible position for the Secretary of State to be in. I respect him and have had good dealings with him over many years, but I think he has been left in a vulnerable position by the Prime Minister, because an independent person has not at least had an opportunity to ascertain the facts, after which the Prime Minister can make a decision.

[Alun Cairns]

The reality is that the Secretary of State was questioned for six hours at the Leveson inquiry by a Queen’s counsel, and did not use parliamentary tactics of avoiding questions in different ways. Is the hon. Gentleman saying that six hours of questioning by an independent QC was inadequate?

[Mr Sutcliffe]

The Secretary of State was not asked any pertinent questions at the Leveson inquiry about the issues we are raising today.

On the subject of Leveson, we will have to wait and see the conclusions, but we all hope it makes recommendations that we can all support. The cost of that inquiry is also in the public mind, however. The Prime Minister put it across that Leveson would deal with this issue, but Leveson himself has said he could not deal with it for the reasons we heard earlier. I think it would have been cleaner and more appropriate for the ministerial code to have been employed. We have all argued for that code over the years, and having a story unfold under that code can be a protection for Ministers, not just a means to hold them to account. That has not happened, however. Questions remain unanswered, and as long as that remains the case the Secretary of State will continue to be in a difficult situation.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con)]

I am really disappointed by the way in which the Opposition have treated this debate. They seem to subscribe to the doctrine that if they say something often enough people will start to believe it, but that undermines the whole integrity of Parliament and, certainly, makes people question their integrity, purpose and motivation.

We heard from the right hon. and learned Member for Camberwell and Peckham (Ms Harman), who is not in her place but opened the debate, a dismal litany of allegation after allegation, yet her fox has quite obviously been shot by the letter from Sir Alex Allan, who clearly states:

“I do not believe that I could usefully add to the facts in this case”.

Later in the debate, we heard from the hon. Member for Wrexham (Ian Lucas), who on the one hand argued that the case should be referred to Sir Alex Allan, on the other said that Sir Alex was a poodle and not wholly independent—and then started misquoting the Public Administration Committee. So let us be frank: even if the case was referred to Sir Alex Allan, the Opposition would not like the outcome, because he says that he could not add to any of the evidence that has been presented.

[Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend not agree that the approach adopted by Opposition Members is an hypocrisy of which J. Arthur Rank would have been proud?

[Alun Cairns]

I could not have described it better myself, and I am grateful to my hon. Friend.

[Chris Bryant]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Alun Cairns]

I will in a moment.

I remind the House that it took 23 minutes for the shadow Secretary of State to come to the judgment that the Secretary of State should resign and, then, that he should be referred to Sir Alex Allan. That judgment—

[Chris Bryant]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Alun Cairns]

I will in a moment.

That judgment came directly from testimony by James Murdoch and Frédéric Michel, the quality of whose evidence on other occasions the right hon. and learned Lady had herself questioned. So it took her 23 minutes to make that judgment—on someone whom she had doubted in the first place.

[Chris Bryant]

Well, it took the Prime Minister 15 minutes to decide that the Secretary of State was innocent. Let me turn to the hon. Member for Vale of Glamorgan (Alun Cairns), however, because he read out the Whips’ question earlier about Sir Alex Allan, but he is a member of the very Committee that stated:

“We felt, however, that he”—

Sir Alex Allan—

“was unsuited to this role because he did not convince us that he would be able to demonstrate the independence the post requires.”

Now, I know that the hon. Gentleman hardly ever turns up to the Committee, but that was his Committee’s conclusion.

[Alun Cairns]

We have already heard from the hon. Gentleman and from his hon. Friend the Member for Wrexham selective misquotations of the Public Administration Committee’s report, but, whatever Opposition Members say, time and again we can point to Sir Alex Allan’s letter, in which he states that

“I do not believe that I could usefully add to the facts in this case”.

Sir Alex is fully aware of what has been said at the Leveson inquiry, what has been said here in the Chamber and what has been said at the Culture, Media and Sport Committee, so Opposition Members are calling for—

[Paul Flynn]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Alun Cairns]

I am sorry, but because of the limit I do not have time to give way to the hon. Gentleman, who I know has shown a strong interest in the matter.

Opposition Members are calling for the matter to be referred to someone, but if they do not like the outcome they will come out with the same judgment and call for the Secretary of State to go.

The key question is, was the issue handled properly? I say, absolutely yes and the Secretary of State has demonstrated the highest integrity, because at each and every stage he followed independent advice, which often went against the Murdoch interest. We have also heard that, because the Secretary of State followed that independent advice, James Murdoch was absolutely furious, so if there was a conspiracy it was pretty poorly planned.

Much has also been made of the letter from the Secretary of State to the Prime Minister, but, in view of the lobbying from the anti-Murdoch campaign leading up to that letter, and in view of the communications that I as a mere new Back Bencher had, I would be surprised if there was any Member who did not have a personal view on the issue. It would be almost impossible to pick out any Member, and certainly any Minister, who did not have an initial view on the matter. That is why the Secretary of State acted with the utmost integrity by taking advice and following it at each and every stage, and he did so because, as the letter shows, he was aware of the risk of a judicial review from the Murdochs and from the other side. He had no option other than to follow independent advice at every stage, and I am very glad he did.

I am extremely disappointed by the dismal litany that we heard from the right hon. and learned Member for Camberwell and Peckham. She and other Labour Members should be judged by their own standards, and I would point to their former Prime Ministers and their special advisers.

Business of the House

Alun Cairns Excerpts

Thursday 24th May 2012 Commons Chamber

[Sir George Young]

I think that, in a sense, that question contained its own answer. I am delighted that all the parties co-operated—and I include you, Mr Speaker —in ensuring that the Backbench Business Committee was established pretty quickly at the beginning of the new Session. I am delighted that it is up and running. Any Members with bids should indeed turn up at 1 o’clock on Tuesday 12 June in order to put their submissions to the hon. Lady’s Committee.

[Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con)]

I was pleased to see that unemployment in Vale of Glamorgan fell during the last quarter. I know that the Leader of the House will be more than familiar with Bruce Dickinson, the lead singer of the rock group Iron Maiden, who has committed to creating 1,000 jobs in my constituency in the St Athan enterprise zone over the next 18 months. May we have a debate on enterprise zones and their success or otherwise in creating new employment opportunities so that best practice can be shared across the whole United Kingdom?

[Sir George Young]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend and delighted to hear of the initiative to which he has referred. On our first Monday back, there might be an opportunity to develop this further in the context of the Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill. One thing we wanted to do with enterprise zones was to encourage investment and employment growth in those parts of the country that had suffered from the recession. I am pleased to hear that that initiative is now having success, with companies locating in enterprise zones, taking advantage of the tax breaks and other incentives available there.

Privilege

Alun Cairns Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd May 2012 Commons Chamber

[Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con)]

I rise briefly to commend once again my hon. Friend the Member for Maldon (Mr Whittingdale) for the way in which he chaired what has been, at times, a challenging and difficult Committee, not just in this Parliament, but in the previous Parliament, when our conclusions were not always unanimous and we had a number of disagreements along the way. He, as ever, chaired the Committee expertly.

I would also like to take the opportunity to commend the other members of the Committee. We did not always agree on these matters, but everybody put a lot of hard work into the report. There was a lot of dedication over a long period, and even though we may well have had an honest disagreement at the end of it on some matters, people should not underestimate the efforts that Committee members on both sides of House put in to get to where we are today, not least the hon. Members for West Bromwich East (Mr Watson) and for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Paul Farrelly), who put in a lot of time and effort to uncover the wrongdoing that clearly took place at News International.

I absolutely endorse the case that was put by my hon. Friend the Member for Maldon at the beginning of the debate on why the matter should be passed on to the Standards and Privileges Committee. I want to emphasise that the Committee did not come lightly to the decision that Tom Crone, Colin Myler and Les Hinton had lied to the Committee in its previous inquiry, and, it might be said, in this one too. I do not think that any Select Committee would lightly decide overtly to state that certain named individuals lied to it in the course of its inquiry. I want to press that point to the Chairman of the Standards and Privileges Committee so that he appreciates that the decision was not entered into lightly. Those conclusions did not come flippantly, but after much serious consideration and deliberation.

I also want to emphasise how our inquiry was repeatedly impeded by News International, not just this inquiry, which, to be perfectly honest, showed for the first time elements of News Corporation co-operating with the Select Committee, but particularly the previous inquiry, when News International repeatedly, consistently and corporately made it clear that it was impeding our inquiry. In case people are not aware, I have to report that News International attempted to have the hon. Member for West Bromwich East and me thrown off the Committee during the last Parliament because it thought that we would not be particularly favourable to them in our deliberations. As the hon. Member for Wallasey (Ms Eagle) made clear, it would be absolutely unacceptable if people could come to Parliament and know that they could get away with repeatedly lying to the Committee. If that did happen, it would open the floodgates for witnesses not to tell the Committees about anything that might be inconvenient to them.

Let me make one brief point to emphasise how we did not enter into these matters lightly. The lies were not just little white lies, but deliberate attempts to mislead the Committee on serious matters. For example, my hon. Friends the Members for Maldon and for Folkestone and Hythe (Damian Collins) mentioned the letter that Clive Goodman sent to appeal against his dismissal to Les Hinton, saying that this practice was widespread in News of the World and that it was discussed on a daily basis. Yet Les Hinton made it clear that he had seen no evidence at all to suggest that the practice was more widespread, which was quite a palpable lie.

We must also remember that on the back of the letter that Les Hinton received, he was responsible for making sure that, one way or another, Clive Goodman received a payment totalling around £250,000. That happened only for him to say quite flippantly that there was no evidence at all; there was certainly sufficient evidence for him to authorise £250,000 to be paid out from News International to Clive Goodman—somebody who was convicted of a criminal offence, caused huge embarrassment to the company and could have been dismissed for gross misconduct. I would like to press upon the House, and the Standards and Privileges Committee, the fact that that was not only repeated, but very serious and blatant.

Finally, I would like the Standards and Privileges Committee to consider the motives of the people who lied to us—my hon. Friend the Member for Corby (Louise Mensch) touched on this in her contribution—because it is not entirely clear why certain people lied. Was it to protect themselves, which might have been the case for some people, to protect colleagues, or was it to protect the company and its reputation as a whole? The Committee might like to consider what motivated those people to lie and whether different motivations should come with different punishments. I am not offering any particular opinion, but I think that that is something that should be put on the record.

The reason I mention motives is that it was perfectly apparent during the previous inquiry in the last Parliament that witnesses from News International came to the Committee with a corporate game plan: nobody knew anything, nobody could remember anything, and nobody knew anybody who might know anything, and that was everybody’s defence at every possible turn. Whatever question was asked, that was the corporate defence from everybody who appeared before us under the News International banner, and it was particularly striking. I recall asking Les Hinton during that inquiry whether he had received any coaching before the evidence session so that we would know where we stood and whether News International had employed someone to advise them on how to answer the questions.

That is something the Standards and Privileges Committee might want to look at, because to my mind, and that of the Committee as a whole, the three individuals we named palpably lied to us, and it is very interesting to consider how on earth that came about. Were they told to give those answers, or did they make that decision themselves? I certainly have a feeling that on some occasions they were told what to say and that it was a corporate decision, rather than one they made themselves.

[Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con)]

I pay tribute to my hon. Friend, the Committee and its Chair for the way they have conducted their inquiry and today’s debate. Will he reassure me that, as this ever-changing situation evolves, if any other witnesses are found to have misled or lied to the Committee, it will take the same action and call for them to be referred to the Standards and Privileges Committee?

[Philip Davies]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend but fear that his question is slightly above my pay grade, as those are not decisions I can take for the Committee as a whole. I am sure that my hon. Friend the Member for Maldon, the Chair of the Committee, listened carefully to his intervention. He is probably the best person to direct that request to. I would certainly be sympathetic to the idea of the Committee looking again at certain individuals, if the legal situation allowed, who might also have lied to us, if that is what we conclude.

In conclusion, these are very serious matters, matters about which the Committee was absolutely unanimous, with regard to the three individuals concerned, and that we did not enter into lightly. We might have had some very well-publicised disagreements about parts of our report, but on this we were absolutely united. On the report as a whole, and on the inquiries as a whole, there was far more that united the Committee than divided it.

Business of the House

Alun Cairns Excerpts

Thursday 17th May 2012 Commons Chamber

[Sir George Young]

As a former Housing Minister, I take a close interest in this matter and have seen the report to which the hon. Gentleman refers. We inherited a not very positive record from the previous Government: the lowest peacetime house building since the 1920s. I am sure he will welcome our affordable homes programme, which is set to exceed expectations and deliver up to 170,000 affordable homes and a £1.3 billion investment to get Britain building. I hope he will also welcome what we have done to enable planning decisions to be made more quickly, to make public land available to house builders, and to help first-time buyers. I hope, too, that he will welcome our fiscal decisions, which, crucially, enable interest rates to remain low, helping first-time home buyers.

[Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con)]

Earlier this week, the Minister of State, Department for Education, the hon. Member for Brent Central (Sarah Teather), who has responsibility for children and families, responded to the Green Paper on special educational needs, which is an area of policy that has been ignored for far too long. Parents must battle for their children’s rights to receive the education they need. May we have a debate on this important area of policy so that we can push progress much more quickly?

[Sir George Young]

I would welcome such a debate. The Government are committed to a draft Bill on that matter, so there will be an opportunity to take things forward. We want to ensure that services for disabled children and young people, and those with special educational needs, are planned and commissioned jointly by local authorities and clinical commissioning groups. We want to give children who have challenges a much squarer deal than they have at the moment. When the Bill is introduced, there will be an opportunity to outline Government policy.