G7 and NATO Summits

Baroness Smith of Basildon Excerpts

Tuesday 1st July 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Newby (LD)]

My Lords, the Statement improbably begins by discussing the Government’s woes on social security, which of course have absolutely nothing to do with its real subject matter. We welcome the Government’s U-turn there, but I do not think that this Statement is the context in which to discuss them, not least because they have been coming so thick and fast that I am afraid I cannot keep up.

There is a wide measure of agreement that the UK faces greater and more diverse security threats than it has for decades and that we are all greatly indebted to our Armed Forces and other government agencies that are working so hard and effectively to combat them. The headline outcome of the NATO summit was the commitment to spend 5% on national security. In the Statement, this is referred to as a “defence investment pledge”, but it clearly includes expenditure on many non-defence items.

In the national security strategy, the definition of “national security” includes

“the health of our economy … food prices … supply chains … safety on the streets”

and the online world. This definition seems so wide as to be virtually meaningless. Can the Minister explain what is within the definition? The Prime Minister says that we will reach 4.1% spending on it in 2027, so he must know how he reached that figure. Will the Government therefore give a breakdown of the 4.1% and then explain how they intend to get to the 5% by 2035?

One obvious item to include in the definition of expenditure that promotes national security is overseas development assistance, particularly in areas such as conflict prevention. To what extent is ODA included in the new definition of “national security” and do the Government have any plans to increase it as they increase all other aspects of security expenditure?

The Statement goes on to say that UK foreign policy

“answers directly to the concerns of working people”.

What specific concerns of working people are meant by that phrase? To what extent are working people affected by foreign policy in different ways from the rest of the population?

One of the biggest challenges ahead is not just to increase expenditure on national security but to ensure that the money is spent as effectively as possible. In that context, can the Minister explain why we are prioritising the purchase of 12 F35A jets capable of carrying nuclear weapons? These planes are extraordinarily expensive, even if they are not quite as expensive as the F35Bs, and for decades we have not judged it necessary to have this capability. As the noble Lord, Lord West, said at Questions earlier today, this change presumably means that we need at the very least to update our nuclear doctrine. Do the Government plan to do so? Will they publish any new doctrine when it has been adopted?

On Ukraine, we welcome the commitment to repeat last year’s commitment on expenditure and also the funding of additional air defence missiles from frozen Russian assets. Can the Minister confirm that this funding has come from the interest on those assets and that no progress has been made on freeing up the capital, which could be transformative to Ukraine’s success?

In the Commons, the Prime Minister said it was very difficult to access the capital because not all countries were in agreement on how to proceed. Estonia has proposed a way forward on this. Will the Minister commit to looking at Estonia’s proposals as a matter of urgency?

The Statement rightly stresses the need to build up the Armed Forces. So does the Minister accept that there is still a crisis of recruitment, particularly to the Army? Will the Government therefore look sympathetically at the Lib Dem proposal to pay a £10,000 signing-on bonus for new recruits as a way of rapidly boosting recruitment?

On Iran, we welcome the current ceasefire, but it needs to be made permanent. The Foreign Secretary recently met the Iranian Foreign Minister, along with EU counterparts, to promote a ceasefire. Do HMG foresee any future role for the UK in securing a longer- term solution?

Finally, on Gaza, we agree on the need for a quick ceasefire, but there is absolutely no sign of this. In the meantime, deaths and starvation continue. Our ability to affect events in Gaza is limited, but we could at the very least recognise the state of Palestine, which is a necessary precursor to a two-state solution. The Prime Minister says that the Government are waiting for the “right time” to do this. The fear is that in the Government’s view there will never be a right time. We should act now.

[The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Smith of Basildon) (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to both noble Lords for their comments. I thought the noble Lord, Lord True, although he made an elegant entrance, enjoyed himself too much at my party’s expense. The focus of today, and what people are looking for in the Statement, was about the G7 and NATO.

I do not think we have seen such a complex and difficult international situation in the lifetime of most of us here. It is not an easy time. Across the world we have existing conflicts, new conflicts, and they seem to escalate quickly and change with new eruptions quickly. What we can do nationally and internationally to help bring peace trumps any other issue we may want to discuss, so I will focus on those issues.

I have to say that the noble Lord was uncharacteristically churlish about the role that the Prime Minister has played on the international stage. I can recall very early on in the days of this Government facing criticism from the party opposite about the Prime Minister going to international conferences, building relations with leaders of other countries, and I said at the time—and it still holds true and has proved to be true—that it is only by building up good relationships that you can have the difficult discussions when they are needed. My party and I are proud of the role that our Prime Minister is playing on the international stage, and I can remember when we have been less proud of a Prime Minister’s or Foreign Secretary’s role on the international stage. So, I make no apologies for the role he is playing. We are grateful to him for doing so.

The issue of the transformative and generational increase in defence spending by the NATO summit was really important. Five percent is greater than it has been for many years. I am surprised that the noble Lord, Lord True, was querying the new 1.5% target. The noble Lord, Lord Newby, raised this as well. It is almost impossible to divorce national security from resilience. They are both about our security, and our safety in this country is dependent on both. The idea that we could spend national resilience money on pylons for green energy is a frankly ridiculous point for the noble Lord to make. But we must ensure that we have supplies of energy throughout the country for business, domestic and military use.

We have seen what has happened in other countries when there has been a failure of supply of energy. It is vital that we maintain that. To try to make a political point about green energy and the environment is not what this is about. I hope the noble Lord will understand how important a role the issues of supply chains and energy play in national security and resilience. If he does not understand that, we can find more information for him that he might find it useful to look at.

The noble Lord asked specifically about finance. We went through this last week. We will have fully funded plans to increase defence spending in this Parliament from 2.6% from April 2027 to at least 4.1% of GDP on collective defence and security by 2027. That target, I said before, is 3.5% on core spending and 1.5% on security.

I also make no apology for the Chagos deal. I have said this before: the idea that a country would spend a lot of money—and it is a lot of money—if it did not consider it vital and essential to national security is, quite frankly, a ludicrous argument to make. It is because it is so essential that the Government have been prepared to spend the money. We should recognise that and recognise the importance of it. When noble Lords talk about the cost of living, I will take no lessons from a party that gave us the Liz Truss Budget, which did so much damage to the people in this country and to the cost of living. The noble Lord can mutter away, but it really affected the economy of this country, with working people up and down the country seeing their bills and their mortgages rising dramatically.

The noble Lord also asked about the trade deal with the US. Yes, the tariffs were of enormous concern. The fact that we have managed to get them down to the levels they are is something that has been achieved by negotiation and would not have happened otherwise. The noble Lord also made a rather strange point about the F35A. He may have only heard some of the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Coaker. Yes, they are less expensive than the F35Bs. That means that the money is available for other defence spending. He made that point earlier today. The fact they are cheaper is an asset rather than something to complain about.

I thank the noble Lord, however, for his comments about the Government’s comments on the BBC. Those who watched Glastonbury were quite shocked at the comments that were made by one particular group. The BBC does have questions to answer on why it did not act more quickly. Lessons should be learned from that.

I am just trying to read my handwriting, which can sometimes be difficult. The noble Lord, Lord Newby, asked about the crisis in recruitment to the Army. It has been a serious issue. I can remember days when you would go down the high street and there would be an Army recruitment shop. In our schools and colleges there were people looking to recruit to the Armed Forces, and a number of my friends joined up. We have not picked the noble Lord’s suggestion of a golden handshake, as it were, but I am assured by my noble friend Lord Coaker that they are working at pace on this issue. They recognise that something has be done to make up the numbers that fell to such a dangerous level under the last Government.

I think I have addressed most of the questions. If I have missed anything, I am sure we will come back to it. These summits are just so important for countries working together. It is clear that, for some of the most dangerous places in the world—places of conflict—the only way forward will be negotiated arrangements and settlements, and working towards peace at pace.

[Lord Beamish (Lab)]

My Lords, I attended last week’s NATO summit in The Hague, as a vice president of the NATO PA. I must say to the noble Lord, Lord True, that that is not the position I saw in terms of UK standing. I saw a country that is now again respected and is working very closely with all its allies to engage in the important fight against Russia. In meetings with heads of delegations and foreign Defence Ministers, they all commended the UK on the leadership it has taken, including that of our Prime Minister.

The position of increased expenditure is welcome, but one of the issues that is very important in terms of the fight against the Russian invasion of Ukraine is its financial ability to rearm. So what more can be done to ensure that sanctions do bite and that we ensure that the rearming of Russia is thwarted?

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

I am grateful to the noble Lord. Certainly, his impressions of the leadership that the Prime Minister has shown chimes with what I have heard from other people at similar conferences. In fact, in our support for Ukraine, the Prime Minister was able to bring European leaders and others into London in support of President Zelensky. Indeed, immediately after the NATO statement, President Zelensky came to London and met the Prime Minister and the Speakers of both Houses. This gives a sense of the leadership that is shown, and also of how close our relationship is with Ukraine.

On sanctions, he is absolutely right. First, he will be aware of the money that has been spent—I cannot immediately recall the amount. As the noble Lord, Lord Levy, said, it is from the interest on the Russian assets. I will come back to that point. It is the interest on those assets that has been used to provide more weapons, including missiles, for Ukraine. It is important that we do that. The Government are still working at pace and have not ruled out legal action to ensure that we can get access to that money for Ukraine where it is needed.

The noble Lord made a point about sanctions. It is an important point. The UK has now introduced new sanctions that target Russia’s shadow fleet. We have blacklisted 20 additional vessels, as well as 10 individuals linked to the country’s energy and shipping sectors. Again, we have seen our partners also taking decisive action. Canada has listed over 200 vessels, and the EU has moved forward with its 18th sanctions package at some pace as well. So, sanctions are an important tool in the armoury supporting Ukraine against Russia. We must never forget the danger that is posed to the Ukrainian people. The Ukrainian people are at the forefront of the fight for freedom that all of us have to respect and know that we can also be in danger if we do not protect Ukraine.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the Minister that leadership on the international stage is crucial, and I welcome the Prime Minister’s attendance at both conferences because you have to be present at the most senior level to ensure that your voice is heard. There is a deep symbolism in the role that the United Kingdom plays on the world stage.

On Ukraine, I am sure the Minister will equally recognise the leadership of successive Governments and the solidarity across all parts of your Lordships’ House on the importance of standing with Ukraine. In that respect, can she share some of the specific conversations that have taken place with our colleagues in the United States on getting peace in Ukraine, in particular on the role of the United Kingdom’s leverage with the Ukrainians, the respect we have and the new relationship that President Trump has forged with President Putin to bring this conflict to an end? I draw attention to my work as chair of the International Communities Organisation, which is committed to resolving conflict around the world.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord. His work in this area is particularly respected by this House. It has been a strength of the UK’s response that, whichever party is in government, we have been united across the divide but also across both Houses. I know the noble Lord was there when President Zelensky visited our Parliament. He spoke to both Houses and some of us were privileged to meet him afterwards. You get a sense of not just the huge pressure but, for a man who could never have expected to be in the position he is in, how he has responded to that. That is why he has received acclamation around the world for the stand he has taken.

The noble Lord is right about the symbolism of the UK’s role in this. It is important that we maintain that special relationship with the US, because it is so important to support for Ukraine. There is ongoing dialogue. The ongoing conversations and meetings that the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary have had with American officials have been important in that regard. They will continue. I think the whole House will say that we should not at any point detract from or retract our support for Ukraine in any way. We will urge others constantly to ensure that support remains solid, robust and united.

[Lord Dodds of Duncairn (DUP)]

I thank the Minister for what she said about Glastonbury and the BBC, but it should be remembered that more than one act engaged in vile, pro-violence, pro-terror remarks. This Kneecap outfit from Belfast also needs to be condemned and called out for their pro-terrorism activities.

I also welcome what the Prime Minister said about aligning security objectives and plans for economic growth and renewing industrial communities, but given that the Northern Ireland aerospace and defence sectors contribute an estimated £2.2 billion to the economy, will the Minister decry and deplore the remarks today of the Sinn Féin Economy Minister, who said that money should not be spent on defence at all but on public services, whatever that means? Can she ensure that, despite the ideological nonsense of Sinn Féin and the way it behaves, Northern Ireland’s vital defence industries and the people who are contributing so much will be worked with, because this is important for our security and our economy?

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, I do not know whether the noble Lord was in the House when Kneecap was raised previously, but I strongly condemned their behaviour at that time and continue to do so. On the other issue he raises, it seems to me that the greatest public service that any Government provide is to keep their citizens safe. That includes, as I said before, defence spending and resilience. Citizens who work in the Armed Forces or our defence industry take on a public service to keep people in this country safe, and we should support them in doing that. I know Northern Ireland has an important defence industry. To say that it is less important does not recognise the threats the world faces at this time. I think we would all love an ideal world where there were no threats, no violence and no areas of conflict, and we did not spend money on defence. That is not the real world. We have to protect our citizens. If we fail to do that, we fail in the first duty of any Government.

[Lord Harper (Con)]

My Lords, in his Statement, the Prime Minister linked economic security, national security and what he called social security. He said that welfare reform was urgent and that the system was failing people every single day. Is not what has happened at the other end of the building a demonstration that the Government’s credibility is shot to pieces? They have literally taken out of that legislation almost all the reforms that they proposed, so their credibility is damaged on that important issue. That matters to our defence commitments, because our credibility in promising that increase in expenditure in the rest of the Statement is now damaged because the Government have demonstrated that they cannot find those savings. That demonstrates that those things are connected. The Government’s credibility is damaged, not just on welfare reform but reputationally on these important national security issues as well.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

The noble Lord will not be surprised that I fundamentally disagree with the point he made. Every time our Government have made a commitment to defence spending, we have kept that commitment. That is an absolute commitment. The noble Lord wants to tie that in with welfare reform. I have not heard anybody say that the situation that this Government inherited on social security and welfare spending is not one that needs to change. There are many measures within that Bill that practically everybody in the other place has supported. An example is the idea that somebody who gets a PIP and is disabled who wants to try to work should not go to the back of the queue and have to go through the system again if working fails. They should be able to try work to see whether it is suitable for them. The system that we have inherited needs change, and that change will continue.

The Bill has passed tonight. People agreed on the issue of reform. They now want to look at the detail. That is the process of legislation. The noble Lord was a Chief Whip in the other place. He knows how the process of legislation works. He lost enough votes himself to recognise how difficult it can be. What can never be accepted is that it is right to write some people off in the system and say that, even though they want to work, we are not going to help them to do so. Those are the measures that we are going to put in place. To link this to the Prime Minister’s comments about economic, national and social security, all these things make up what is good about life, the importance of life and the resilience we all need. Our safety, our resilience and how we treat the nation all link together, and that is how you have a healthy society that supports each other.

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon (Lab)]

My Lords, we should be relieved that we have a Prime Minister who is taking a leading role in the world, where we are and are seen to be a force for good. The UK is a leader on the world stage again. I welcome the Statement, including the fact that there is now an opportunity to push for a ceasefire in Gaza. In the meantime, my noble friend may be aware that more than 170 charities and other NGOs have today called for the controversial aid distribution scheme in Gaza, run by the Israeli and US-backed Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, to be shut down. Will our Government make the case to ensure that, in future, aid is once again distributed by UN organisations?

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

The noble Baroness is absolutely right. Noble Lords may recall that, when this issue was raised in the House in a Question that I answered a few weeks ago, I said that we had grave concerns about trying to set up an alternative to the tried and tested methods. Aid agencies that had working in Gaza, desperately trying to get enough aid in, were not being used. We know that there were pretty devastating consequences. To deal with that part of the region, the hostages must be released, aid must get into Gaza and then there has to be negotiation. The only way these issues can be resolved is through negotiation and discussion. It is hard work. I entirely agree with the noble Baroness’s point. The aid agencies are absolutely right: they know what matters and how best to get aid to those who need it. They just need to be allowed to do so.

[Lord Verdirame (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Leader of the House for that statement. The Statement says that we need to

“ensure a complete, verifiable and irreversible end to Iran’s nuclear programme”.

Israel identified two existential threats arising from Iran. One was the nuclear programme; the other was the ICBM programme. First, what is our assessment of the extent of the damage caused by the Israeli and US strikes on those two programmes? Secondly, is it also our policy that Iran should not resume the production of ICBMs on the scale at which it was doing before the strikes?

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

The answer to the noble Lord’s second question is yes, we do think that. Our assessment, which has been quite widely covered, is that the damage done was significant. We are strongly of the view, and I think it is a worldwide view, that Iran cannot have nuclear weapons. The danger to the world of Iran having nuclear weapons is enormous. Therefore, the point that he makes about the damage done to those facilities is important.

[Lord Liddle (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome what the Lord Privy Seal has said about Ukraine, the role of the Americans in Ukraine and—if I might add—the role of the British in keeping the Americans onside in support of Ukraine. But is it not the case that, if one looks at this period as a historical episode, what is most significant is the agreement to European rearmament?

All the nations, with the exception of Spain, have agreed to this very bold defence target, led by Chancellor Merz of Germany, the new Chancellor. This European rearmament is crucial, and it is something of which we have to be a part. There are industrial opportunities and jobs there. It is very interesting to see that Europe has opened its defence market to Canada. Can I have an assurance that we will work closely with our NATO EU allies on making sure that the best use is made of the funds for rearmament, and that the threat of Putin can be repelled?

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

The noble Lord makes a really important point. What it comes down to is that if we were to let Putin succeed in Ukraine, the deterrent effect of NATO’s plans would be fatally compromised, so we have to harden our resolve. He mentioned the industrial opportunities, and there are those industrial opportunities, but the work we are doing with NATO and the UK-EU pact shows a real determination that we are not going to let Putin succeed.

It is a change, is it not? For many years now, we have taken defence and security for granted. More people now realise that the world is becoming a more dangerous place. The role that we play as a nation, and that our Prime Minister plays on the world stage—of being thoughtful and considered, of looking to broker peace and trying to get negotiations—is all the more crucial, but there has to be that defence capability to back that up.

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend the Leader of the House for bringing forward this Statement. It strikes me that some of the carping that we have heard from the Leader of the Opposition here today rather misses the point of what has been happening in the last few weeks. We have had a series of strategies and statements issued by the Government in a number of different areas. Following on from the defence review, we have had an industrial strategy, a trade strategy and a national security strategy. These are all beginning to form a cohesive whole, which demonstrates that what we are trying to do as a nation is bring all these policies together in the interests of protecting our country and its people. Is that not a very positive element and one of the things that we should read from the way in which the Prime Minister is able to operate on the world stage in these areas?

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

The noble Lord makes an important point about how these strategies have formed together. The changes across the world, in the strategic defence of the world and how we have to respond to that, are really important. If we look at the industrial strategy and our national security strategy, on which I spoke last week, we see the linkages there and how they work together.

The defence spending review is something that we should be really proud of. We are able to take that, build on it and use our strategies to deliver it. As they link together, you see a cohesive whole. As the noble Lord, Lord Harper, said, these things do link together in how we protect our nation. If we do not draw all these links together, we will be weaker and poorer for it.