Paid Directorships and Consultancies (MPs)

David Morris Excerpts

Wednesday 17th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Jon Trickett]

I think the hon. Gentleman has been persuaded by my argument and might decide to join us in the Division Lobby. I hope others do, too, because, on this question of fiduciary duty, if an MP is remunerated, sometimes very substantially, it will create the perception that they might be tempted to calculate the impact of a particular proposal on that income before deciding how to vote. I do not suggest that any MP has ever done such a thing, but in the public mind, that is a widespread view. If we cannot agree this afternoon, Government Members should at least reflect on that.

MPs’ other activities, including remunerated activities, can be taken into account in any new rules we might agree. For the vast majority of MPs, our proposals should be very simple and make no real changes to how they go about their work. Without robust regulation, however, the perception will continue that politics works for a tiny closed circle of people at the top of our society, but not for the millions of hard-working people who play by the rules yet find it increasingly hard to get by, and that brings me to the kernel of my argument. Millions of people play by the rules, but feel that they are getting a really rough deal, while also believing that there is a different set of rules for others, particularly those at the top. We politicians must take account of that public mood. It is time we stepped up to the mark. Precisely because it is we who set the rules, the rules have to apply to us above all.

[David Morris (Morecambe and Lunesdale) (Con)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Jon Trickett]

No, I have almost finished and others want to speak.

Every single one of us feels great pride whenever we enter or leave the Chamber, and we all believe that if politics works properly, we can make our world a better place.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Phillip Lee (Bracknell) (Con)]

It is a privilege to follow the right hon. Member for Greenwich and Woolwich (Mr Raynsford). Indeed, I would happily donate my time to allow him to continue for a further five minutes, because he outlined many reasons why both this motion and the thinking behind it are flawed.

The shadow Front-Bench team is, I think, trying to address the concern among the wider public about politicians, their position and trust. As one of the 240-odd Members who entered the House in 2010, I recognise that the seat that I managed to secure was a victim of that affair. I recognise the need to ensure that the public trust politicians, but I wanted to share with the House my own experience.

In the selection for the constituency of Bracknell there was an open meeting—a caucus. There were seven of us, most of whom had had jobs before and one of whom is now a Member here. During that selection process I pointed out to the meeting that I would continue working in a second job as a doctor. This was a meeting that everybody who was on the electoral register in Bracknell could attend. Approximately 50% of the people there were non-Conservative members. Despite that, I was selected in a very competitive field. My hon. Friend who is now the Member for Penrith and The Border (Rory Stewart) was second. I like to remind him of that on a regular basis. As an aside, I am rather pleased that he is here. He has written some fantastic books and I want him to continue writing books while in the Chamber.

I went on to the election and I was interviewed during the election campaign. The only time I was mentioned on the BBC website was because I called for an increase in MPs’ wages. That is significant. I thought it rather perverse that I was taking a £50,000 pay cut to come here to be an MP from being a GP. We should all reflect on that before making political points on either side of the House. I also said that I would continue working as a GP. I met more people on the doorsteps of Bracknell and the surrounding area who congratulated me on that fact than people who said, “No, you shouldn’t be doing that. I want a full-time Member of Parliament.”

[David Morris]

Does my hon. Friend agree that carrying on practising as a GP enhances his work in the House and keeps him in regular touch with his constituents?

[Dr Lee]

I think it does and I will come to that.

--- Later in debate ---

[David Morris (Morecambe and Lunesdale) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn). I wanted to ask him what he thinks constitute an MP’s hours of salary. He made his case eloquently, but he did not say whether he, when writing his books—I have read some and really enjoyed them—was actually working as an MP. However, that is for another day.

This is another example of how the Opposition suddenly noticed in June 2010 that we have to make lots of changes in this country. Their argument today follows 13 years in which they could have done what they are trying to do today. In fact, in 2009 they backed plans to have greater openness but not a ban on second jobs. As someone who does not have a second job, I suggest that more flexibility is a good thing. I believe strongly in being flexible in our approach but also transparent about it. I think that we have enough transparency. We have the excellent Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, with which we are all acquainted, and the Register of Members’ Financial Interests, in which every Member must list their interests.

[Oliver Colvile]

I have shares in the company I set up. I do no work for it, but I put that in my entry in the register. Should that also be prohibited?

[David Morris]

That makes the point that the whole motion is very badly written. My hon. Friend should be remunerated if he works. My hon. Friend the Member for Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies), who was here earlier, is a farmer, and he made a good point. If he earned money from his farm but had to give it away, how would his farm stay open and profitable? He is a Member of Parliament but he has to be a farmer as well.

[Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab)]

On this very basic point, does the hon. Gentleman think that his constituents would find it acceptable for him to have two, three or perhaps even more forms of employment as well as being a Member of this House?

[David Morris]

The hon. Gentleman will have to do a lot better than that, because I have only one job, and that is Member of Parliament for Morecambe and Lunesdale. We were not all hatched out of an egg as a politician. Some people here have businesses such as farming that go back for generations. We have to take all this into consideration, and the motion does not do so.

Many of these outside earnings are from industries and companies that have a link to hon. Members’ constituencies. For example, the former right hon. Member for South Shields earned £175,000 for being vice-chairman of Sunderland football club. He is a man I greatly respect, I might add, before I get any accusations thrown at me in that regard. That was clearly not part of his work in this House, but it assisted his constituency. It could therefore be argued that he should not be expected to do all that work for free because it is in line with and complements his parliamentary work.

Whatever one’s view, would it not be better to allow the voters to decide? We have achieved transparency. We should not be creating rule after rule just to grab headlines. What we are debating, as ever, strikes at the hypocrisy of the Opposition. They are worried about corporate lobbyists but not trade unions. They want to complain about outside earnings even though lots of their Members are being paid by the unions. They are worried about party funding, yet Co-op remains the only company in this country to own a political party. [Interruption.] This is phoney outrage.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

The bit that the hon. Gentleman completely leaves out of the equation when he says, “Let’s leave it to the voters,” is that the truth of the matter is that the vast majority of parliamentary seats are safe seats where, frankly, anybody could be put up as long as they were from the right political party. [Interruption.] I say that very fairly; it is also an issue about Rhondda. That means that it is much more incumbent on the whole House to take a view on it.

[David Morris]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that eloquently put intervention.

Every time this House has a knee-jerk reaction to a few headlines we always get it wrong. We are better when we allow the public to make the judgments in this respect. Call me old-fashioned, but I believe that those judgments should come through the ballot box, not through focus groups and rules.

[Mr Anderson]

The hon. Gentleman said that Members are paid by trade unions. Will he withdraw that or put the list of those Members in the Library, because Members are not paid by trade unions?

[David Morris]

That is a matter for another debate.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. You cannot suggest that we have another debate. The matter has been put on the record, and that is the record as it stands.

[David Morris]

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. It is arguable, though, is it not, how many Labour Members are being subsidised by the unions? Come on, hands up—let’s see you. How many are being supported by the unions? [Interruption.]

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

Order. Sit down, Mr Morris. Let us get into the habit of using the Chamber in the way it should be used. In fairness, I think that the matter has been put on the record and straightened out. I am sure that you want to participate in the debate on directorships and remuneration of those who receive them.

[David Morris]

I totally agree, Mr Deputy Speaker, but I have been sidetracked from what I wanted to say. If people do not want an MP who has a job outside Parliament, they should not vote for him.