Oral Answers to Questions

David T C Davies Excerpts

Wednesday 24th February 2016 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Crabb]

The hon. Gentleman is right about the need to get the details right—we have just seen a very prolonged negotiation on the Scottish fiscal framework—but that is further down the line. We still have an ongoing discussion with the Welsh Government. They want to avoid taking on any income tax powers whatsoever. They want to avoid the additional fiscal responsibility that that would entail. They are running from having that fuller financial accountability that we believe is really important for Welsh democracy.

[David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con)]

14. Will the Secretary of State confirm that the Severn bridge is key to the economy of south Wales, that the debt will be paid back before the April 2018 prediction and that it offers a golden opportunity to reduce tolls for businesses and hard-pressed motorists in Wales?

[Stephen Crabb]

My hon. Friend, who chairs the Welsh Affairs Committee, has been persistent and effective in raising concerns about the burden imposed on businesses and motorists in Wales by the very high tolls on the Severn bridge. We have not made any final decisions about what will happen when the private sector concession ends at the end of 2017, but we and the Treasury will be very keen to hear any specific ideas that he and members of his Committee might have.

Draft Wales Bill (Morning sitting)

David T C Davies Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd February 2016 General Committees

[David T. C. Davies]

I begin by offering a word of support for the point of order that was raised earlier. The Conservative party, as a party that has always prided itself on providing support for the Welsh language, would be quite happy about and would look positively at the possibility of allowing Welsh to be used during Welsh Grand Committees. Why would we not be? After all, I gather that in the last few minutes alone there has been an announcement of extra funding for S4C, the Welsh language television channel, which, of course, was set up by a previous Conservative Government. The Conservative party will always be a huge supporter of the Welsh language.

I find myself in a slightly difficult position in talking about this Bill, because even as we speak, of course, members of the Welsh Affairs Committee are considering their own positions on the draft report, which I hope will be a unanimous report full of recommendations about this Bill. Obviously, as has become clear already, different Members from different parties, and even different Members from the same party, have taken somewhat different positions on this Bill, so talking about it is challenging. In fact, when it comes to trying to get a unanimous Bill through, I think I know how the Prime Minister feels in Europe.

Consequently, I will skirt around some of the issues. I understand the wish of the Government and the Minister to bring some clarity to the devolution settlement— I certainly support that principle. However, I have to put on record my disappointment over the issue of taxation. I have been around long enough to know which way the wind is blowing and I can see what is going to happen. I have to say, with all due respect to the Minister, I personally think it would have been better to have a referendum.

One thing I want to talk about is scrutiny, because regardless of what people have been saying, it is clear to me that this Bill will lead to the Welsh Assembly having significant further powers when it finally goes through, and one issue that has been raised all the way through our Select Committee evidence has been the Welsh Assembly’s ability to conduct good scrutiny. It has become even more important that it can do so because of the extra powers that it can have.

There are two areas where the scrutiny process could be improved. The first, of course, is the Assembly Committees. They are the equivalent of our Select Committees. The Select Committee process, ever since the late 1970s, has been one of the great success stories of Parliament, but the reform that happened in 2010, when Select Committee Chairs started to be elected by all Members of the House, was very important. I cannot understand how those of us who were here before that could have tolerated a situation in which party leaders were simply sticking in people who they thought would be compliant and handing out those positions almost as a kind of prize.

That system was totally unacceptable, and nobody would ever go back to it, yet we still have it in the Welsh Assembly, and there have been controversies where leaders of various political parties have allegedly removed people or put people in place as Select Committee Chairs because they held a view that was more likely to be supportive of the political party that they represented. Even the suggestion that that could have happened undermines confidence in the process, so I think that the situation is unacceptable and that somehow we ought to persuade the Welsh Assembly Members of the success of the reforms that have been made in Parliament.

[Antoinette Sandbach]

That was proposed by Assembly Members, including Lord Elis-Thomas, myself and Nick Ramsay in the current Assembly. Very regrettably, those proposals were not taken up, largely because the party leaders want to hand out the baubles of chairmanships of Committees, and it allows them to control the casting votes in those Committees. It is—

[The Chair]

Order. Before the democratically elected Chair of the Welsh Affairs Committee continues, I point out that we are talking about this draft Bill in this House, not procedures in the National Assembly.

[David T. C. Davies]

Thank you, Mr Owen. If I may, I will continue not so much on Select Committees, because that was a side issue, but on the overall issue of scrutiny. A lot of evidence came to us from people who were basically calling for there to be more Welsh Assembly Members, and they included the Speaker of the Assembly. I want to pick up on that, because one thing that I said when I campaigned against the Assembly in the late 1990s was that it would be a case of 60 people doing a job that was previously done by three—then, of course, we had two junior Ministers. In one sense, I got that one wrong, as we all did, because of course in Parliament there are 1,400 people who can scrutinise legislation: Members of the House of Lords and Members of the House of Commons. I think that in the Welsh Assembly there are 13 Ministers and junior Ministers, which leaves 47 people, or thereabouts, who can actually scrutinise legislation. That clearly puts them at a disadvantage, and various people have suggested various solutions to the problem over the years.

One suggested solution was that scrutiny could be conducted by the Welsh Grand Committee or even by the Welsh Affairs Committee. I would not mind putting myself forward for such a role, but in reality it would be completely politically unacceptable for Members of Parliament to scrutinise Welsh Assembly legislation.

Another solution that has been offered is some kind of Ty’r Arglwyddi—a Welsh House of Lords—but again that would be politically very difficult to get through and would involve huge cost, so people have started talking about more Assembly Members. That was the solution put to us in the evidence we took. I believe that Rosemary Butler mentioned a figure of 80 to 100 Assembly Members—I do not want to put words in her mouth. David Melding said something similar. We were definitely being told by one witness after another that we needed between 80 and 120 Assembly Members to do the job, rather than 60, but I think all of them recognised that that would be a very difficult sell to the public, so respectfully I want to put forward an alternative solution, based on the thought that, assuming this Bill goes through in some form, the Assembly will have the extra powers and there will be a need for a much higher level of scrutiny than there is currently.

I think there is an obvious solution. We have 22 local authorities. I believe that those local authorities could easily send four members, based on some sort of party balance, to sit in the chamber of the Welsh Assembly—perhaps on one day a month. They could carry out good scrutiny of the legislation that is being passed. They would have a democratic mandate to do that because they would all be elected. They would have the expertise to do it because local authority members often carry out the functions of legislation passed by the Welsh Assembly, particularly in education and social services, and they will clearly be in a position to know what will work and what will not work. I am not suggesting for one moment that local councillors should be able to block or overturn legislation, but they could have a role in forcing the Assembly to think again and add amendments.

[Geraint Davies]

Does the hon. Gentleman accept that in such a model there would be a tendency for more money to go towards local authorities and for less money to go towards health?

[David T. C. Davies]

There would clearly be pressure from local authority members to reconsider the local government funding formula, and I assume that members from areas such as Brecon and Monmouth would want to do that because, despite the Minister giving extra money to the Welsh Assembly, areas such as Monmouthshire are seeing a huge cut in funding, and there is absolutely no reason for that. Brecon is even worse, because I believe that about 4%—

[The Chair]

Order. The hon. Gentleman is drifting slightly from the Bill. I would expect him, as Chairman of the Select Committee on Welsh Affairs, to be succinct in both time and subject matter.

[David T. C. Davies]

I can take a hint. There is a good argument from local government members for allowing such a committee to take place.

I hear some of the criticisms of the Bill, and I hear criticisms of the English votes for English laws mechanism. I say to the hon. Member for Wrexham, who raised the criticism, that we were making those arguments in the 1990s. We—that is to say I—lost that argument. There is a recognition that Wales will be able to do things in health and education and that England will have no part in that. It is not unfair or inconsistent to say that the English should be able to take the same decisions. Of course people will be affected by that. There always have been and always will be people who have their health treatment, or who go to school or university, on one side of the border but who live on the other side. That was the case in the 1990s, when the Welsh Assembly was set up. All the Government have done is to bring a slightly consistent view to it. If it discourages Members of the Welsh Assembly from asking for yet more powers because they are afraid that their party colleagues might lose control over other things, such as policing, then as a Unionist I am pleased about it. It is a good thing and a step forward.

[Kevin Brennan]

Disgrace.

[David T. C. Davies]

It is not a disgrace. It is no more of a disgrace than the Welsh Assembly in the first place, which I argued strongly against.

[Kevin Brennan]

The Welsh Assembly was established—the hon. Gentleman knows this well, because he and I were on opposite sides of the argument back in the late 1990s—after a long debate, after a referendum and after considerable parliamentary time and scrutiny was devoted to it. His party made Members, including himself, second-class MPs by using the mechanism of the Standing Orders of this House. It is a constitutional aberration and a disgrace.

[David T. C. Davies]

It was a manifesto commitment, and people voted for a Conservative Government because of that express manifesto commitment. If the hon. Gentleman went down to the streets of England and said, “Do you think that Welsh MPs, who are not allowed to have any say over what happens to the health service in Wales, should be able to tell the English what to do?”, I know what the answer would be. The Government are carrying out a manifesto commitment that was democratically voted for, and it is completely consistent with what Opposition Members have done. [Interruption.]

[The Chair]

Order. The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right that there was a Conservative commitment. We have also had long debates on it in the past. It is not the purpose of this Grand Committee to continue those debates. I ask him to bring his remarks to a close.

[David T. C. Davies]

Thank you, Mr Owen. I would simply say one last thing: as somebody who was opposed to the Welsh Assembly, I completely accept that it is there forever. I hope that we will not constantly see more powers handed over to it. I see powers as being not a one-way street but possibly a two-way street, but there will be people voting at the next Assembly elections in May who were barely born when it was set up, so the idea that we can somehow scrap it has now long gone. Opposition Members have said that matters affecting Wales should be decided in Wales, which is an interesting principle. I would like to see matters affecting Britain being decided in Great Britain, which is why I will be joining the Vote Leave campaign at some point this afternoon. I look forward to the support of Plaid Cymru Members.

Oral Answers to Questions

David T C Davies Excerpts

Wednesday 13th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[Alun Cairns]

My right hon. Friend makes a very important point about the economic prospects that will be brought by the significant capital investment that we are bringing forward. It is worth remembering that the last Labour Government left Wales as one of only three countries in Europe, along with Moldova and Albania, without a single mile of electrified track.

[David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con)]

5. What discussions he has had with the Welsh Assembly on the contribution of the M4 to the economy in south Wales.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)]

We regularly have discussions on a range of issues, including transport infrastructure. The M4 is one of Wales’s vital arteries. The need for an upgrade was identified decades ago by business leaders as a No. 1 priority.

[David T. C. Davies]

The Minister will surely be aware that the ongoing delays on the M4 are causing problems for the economy in south Wales. Will he outline what steps he is taking to enable the Welsh Assembly Government to make improvements to this vital piece of transport infrastructure?

[Alun Cairns]

It is hard to believe that the former right hon. Member for Richmond, Yorks was Secretary of State for Wales when the upgrade was first committed to, only for it to be cancelled by Labour Members. It was reconsidered later by a Plaid Cymru Welsh Government Minister, only to then be cancelled. My right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer has made additional resources available, and we just want the Welsh Government to get on with it.

Oral Answers to Questions

David T C Davies Excerpts

Wednesday 18th November 2015 Commons Chamber

[David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con)]

12. Will the Minister confirm that while the Government are, of course, listening carefully to any concerns about tax credits, the people of Wales stand to benefit enormously from the increase in the tax threshold, the increase in the minimum wage and the Government’s determination to stick to the long-term economic plan?

[Alun Cairns]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that question. When we move from the basic minimum wage to the national living wage next April, there will be an increase of 7.5%. That means that 100,000 people in Wales will benefit immediately from next April.

Steel Industry

David T C Davies Excerpts

Wednesday 28th October 2015 Commons Chamber

[Ms Eagle]

My hon. Friend’s practical suggestion should be considered with great seriousness not only by the Government but by the EU.

The steel summit in Rotherham was convened only following the Backbench Business Committee debate, and it ended with more job losses and no significant Government announcements. Far from keeping the House informed as the crisis has unfolded, the Government have had to be dragged kicking and screaming to the House to answer urgent question after urgent question.

Steel is an energy intensive industry that inevitably results in extra costs being placed on it for environmental reasons, but the Government have the power to lower energy costs for steel producers through implementing the energy intensive industry compensation package immediately.

[David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con)]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Ms Eagle]

In a minute.

Despite being announced in the Chancellor’s autumn statement in 2011, the most substantial part of this package is still waiting to be implemented. Ministers admitted in a parliamentary question to my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty) that they have not even bothered to raise the issue with the Commission in the last 12 months. It is clear that the Government have shown no leadership in Europe, and the Business Secretary is visiting the Commission for the first time today—better late than never I suppose, but what on earth has taken him so long? I welcome his visit, and I trust he will emerge from the Commission with some tangible progress—after all the foot dragging and inaction, it is about time he did.

--- Later in debate ---

[David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con)]

rose—

[David T. C. Davies]

rose—

[Ms Eagle]

I said I would give way to the hon. Member for Monmouth (David T. C. Davies), so I will be polite and give way to him first.

[David T. C. Davies]

In the spirit of politeness, the hon. Lady and Opposition Members are absolutely right to raise this important issue, which affects many in my own constituency in south Wales. She mentioned environmental taxes. I have much sympathy with the point she is going to make, but does she not concede that it was her Government who brought in the environmental taxes in the first place?

[Ms Eagle]

The hon. Gentleman needs to demonstrate to his constituents that he is fighting for their jobs now. He needs to be putting pressure on his own Front Bench to have a proper strategy. This is a heavy industry, which is, by definition, energy intensive. The problem is that the Government do not have a strategy and are living hand to mouth trying to deal with a crisis they should have seen coming.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Crabb]

I am not going to engage in a tit-for-tat on this. Let us just say that the record of the previous Labour Government on steel and on manufacturing was not a stellar one.

[David T. C. Davies]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that Labour Members ought to do him the courtesy of listening to what he has to say? Does he agree that it was they who started bringing in the carbon taxes that have caused problems for manufacturing and that it is this Government who have tried to hold those taxes down?

--- Later in debate ---

[David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Newport East (Jessica Morden), not least because when I left school I started work at British Steel in her constituency. I have to declare an interest as a British Steel pension-holder. I would like to leave everyone with the impression that I was manfully firing a blast furnace, but I was actually a junior filing clerk.

I feel very strongly about this issue and about this industry, which employs so many people in Monmouthshire. We all now accept that there is a problem throughout the world—a huge glut in steel caused by falling demand and an increase in production from China. There are things that the Government can do, and I believe that they are taking the right steps. I am delighted with the idea of the Government’s using British steel as far as possible—not bending or breaking the rules, but changing them so that we can buy our own steel, in projects such as High Speed 2 and in industries such as fracking. That will be very important.

I was glad to hear words in support of the industry from across the Floor because we all have a responsibility in this matter. It is no good blaming the Government for everything; Opposition Members have to be able to challenge themselves and some of their colleagues, who are opposed to fracking on rather spurious green grounds. They should challenge those who say that we should always support everything that the European Union does, even when it makes it difficult for us to get around some of the state-aid rules.

Most importantly—this point has been made by Back Benchers in all parts of the House—we need to do something about the energy crisis. It is no good blaming the Government for that because the whole drive to push up energy prices started with Labour Members, who became persuaded, like so many others, by this idea of global warning. I wish that I had 10 or 15 minutes to outline some of the obvious falsehoods that are propagated around that issue. Suffice it to say that manmade carbon emissions are about 30 gigatons a year out of a total of 700 gigatons that arise naturally. Carbon dioxide is in natural gas, and only about 5% of it comes from man. Of that 5%, only 2% comes from the UK—a tiny fraction of the total amount of CO₂ in the atmosphere.

There has been no warming—no increase in the temperature—of this planet for the last 16 years, despite all the CO₂ that has been pushed into the atmosphere. None of the scientists can explain that; they say that the pause is caused by volcanoes, they blame other kinds of gases or they say that there is a natural pause, as Jim Skea did. The reality is that there is no global warming at the moment. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change accepts that.

Why on earth, then, are we levying all these taxes on our industries? I support the Government’s coming up with a compensation scheme and freezing the carbon price floor, but I have a much better idea, which I ask Members in all parties to think about: scrap the carbon taxes. There is no point in having them if the Chinese do not have them and when we are generating only a tiny amount of CO₂. Scrap the whole lot and we will not need a compensation scheme. Allow our steel industry to compete on an equal basis with everyone else. It is not the global climate that we need to worry about; it is the economic climate.

Oral Answers to Questions

David T C Davies Excerpts

Wednesday 16th September 2015 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Crabb]

Ahead of the summer Budget, we of course analysed how the measures taken together would affect people up and down the country. As I have said, eight out of 10 families will be better off as a result of the measures we are taking. The hon. Lady knows as well as I do that low pay has been a curse on the Welsh economy for far too long. I repeat the point that I never thought I would see the day when Labour Members stood up to talk down the efforts that we are making to drive up wage levels for people all across our country.

[David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con)]

2. What discussions he has had with Ministers in the Welsh Government on ensuring that the new Welsh curriculum is accepted across the UK. [R]

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)]

With your permission, Mr Speaker, I too congratulate Labour Front Benchers on their appointments.

My hon. Friend raises an important issue. Greater mobility means reputable, recognisable and comparable qualifications are more important than ever. The CBI has said that employers believe that qualifications across the UK need to be directly comparable.

[David T. C. Davies]

Is the Minister aware that if one puts the words “Wales”, “Labour”, “Education Minister” and “apology” into Google, one can read an admission from that Education Minister that Welsh Labour’s education policies have been an absolute failure? Does he agree that if we are serious about raising educational standards in Wales, we need only wait until the May Welsh Assembly elections, when instead of ditching the curriculum we can ditch the Labour Welsh Assembly Government?

[Alun Cairns]

In the first instance, we need to recognise the success of pupils who passed their A-levels and GCSEs in the summer. However, there is a worrying gap between the trends in Wales and England. As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Education has said, the results speak for themselves. With free schools, academies and other reforms in England, 1 million more children are in good or outstanding schools here—sadly, those reforms have not been made in Wales.

Oral Answers to Questions

David T C Davies Excerpts

Wednesday 17th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Crabb]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman’s point. The Welsh Government have full policy responsibility for health services and all the levers available to them. Full responsibility for the challenges and problems in Welsh health services lies with them.

[David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that all those looking across the River Severn enviously at the shorter waiting times and better ambulance response times under the Conservative-run NHS in England have an opportunity for change next May, when they can vote for a Conservative Government in the Welsh Assembly?

[Stephen Crabb]

As ever, the Chairman of the Welsh Affairs Committee speaks truth and wisdom. It is not healthy for Wales or the Welsh Labour party for the latter always to assume it will be in power in Cardiff Bay. A non-Labour alternative to running the Assembly would do the Welsh health service the world of good.

Welsh Affairs

David T C Davies Excerpts

Thursday 5th March 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

May I say what a great privilege it is for me to follow the right hon. Member for Torfaen (Paul Murphy), who has been such an outstanding Member of the House? I am sure I speak on behalf of all the Members present when I say that we all wish him a very happy retirement, although I half suspect that we may be seeing a bit more of him in the years to come.

The right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Mr Llwyd), too, will be leaving this House after a distinguished career. He and I have known each other for a very long time—longer than either of us would care to mention—since we were both practising law in the magistrates courts of north Wales. I wish him, too, a very happy retirement.

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies) for his opening speech and the Backbench Business Committee for agreeing to this debate. It is an important debate, which we should have every year because it is, as the right hon. Member for Torfaen points out, extremely important that the unique issues that concern the people of Wales should be ventilated in this Chamber.

We are in the final weeks of this Parliament and this debate is as useful an opportunity as any for us all to take stock. In constitutional terms, Wales has seen great changes, some of which were initiated by my right hon. Friend the Member for Chesham and Amersham (Mrs Gillan), who gave strong and sterling service as Secretary of State. But there are more changes to come, which were announced by my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister in Cardiff last week. These will be matters for the next Parliament and we will all have our views as to the course that those changes should take, but this is a useful opportunity to consider what has happened over the past five years.

In 2010 the incoming coalition faced the worst set of economic circumstances that any incoming Government had faced since, possibly, the 1930s. The country was still reeling from the crash of 2008 which, although a global catastrophe, was more keenly felt in Britain than perhaps in any other country in the developed world because Britain was carrying the worst structural deficit of any major country, largely as a consequence of what I would term the economic mismanagement of the Labour Government. The coalition Government therefore, in which I had the privilege to serve for more than four years, had difficult decisions to take. We are constantly criticised for what are styled as cuts by the Opposition, but cuts were essential. It is the easiest thing in the world for any Government not to take the difficult decisions. We took those difficult decisions.

[David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that one of the biggest cuts that we have made is in the amount of interest that we are paying the banks on the increasing amount of money that we were previously borrowing, and that that is one cut we should be making?

--- Later in debate ---

[David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con)]

I, too, thank hon. Members for securing the debate. It might not be obligatory, but I hope that we are setting a precedent of having a St David’s day debate that will be repeated annually.

Let me also pay tribute to the right hon. Members for Torfaen (Paul Murphy) and for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Mr Llwyd). Although I have disagreed with them on many occasions about many things, as the right hon. Member for Torfaen says, we can also agree on many things. Both said much that I could agree with in their speeches. It has been a pleasure to have served in this House with them both and on a personal level many of us will miss them greatly. I wish them well.

It has also been a pleasure to serve as Chair of the Select Committee on Welsh Affairs. I was counting it up and I have served on seven Select Committees, or their equivalents, both here and in the Welsh Assembly. The Welsh Affairs Committee is rather lucky, because it can have an examination or inquiry into anything. Anything that affects Wales can be considered by the Committee and everything affects Wales, so we have pretty well considered everything that one could imagine.

The one thing on which we have always been able to agree is the topicality of those inquiries. We have looked into agriculture, broadband, industry and tourism and, by and large, we have been able to make recommendations that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and my hon. Friend the Minister, to whom I also pay tribute, as well as their predecessors, have taken seriously. I want to mention one or two and to inject a few personal thoughts, as well.

For example, we have considered broadband, which has been a particular issue in many areas and for many people in Monmouthshire. Without going into great detail about what is in the report, I want British Telecom to come out and say which areas will get broadband in the short term and which will not. We know that many areas will, frankly, never be reached by high broadband speeds and it is important that people in those areas know that they are there. That will allow them to go off and make use of other technologies such as satellites. The trouble I see at the moment is that far too often BT effectively tells people to hang on a couple of months, or another year or so, and they will be connected up to fibre, but it never quite seems to happen. We need more openness and transparency on that issue.

We considered the importance of a proper funding settlement for S4C. I am glad that that seems to be working out and that there seems to be consensus.

[Albert Owen]

The hon. Gentleman mentions the work that his Committee has done, but on broadband there is a plan in Wales, which is run jointly between the Welsh Government, BT and the European Union, which have funded it. That has enabled my area to be the first rural area to have the roll-out, along with Blaenau Gwent. There is a structure; it might not be reaching parts of Monmouth at the moment, but it is reaching parts of Anglesey.

[David T. C. Davies]

Perhaps the hon. Gentleman’s relationship with BT is better than mine. I do not know, but there are certainly parts of Wales that broadband is not reaching and Monmouthshire is among them.

[Alun Cairns]

I remind my hon. Friend and the hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen) that the scheme the hon. Gentleman talks about includes significant taxpayers’ money from the UK Government, as well—that is, £70 million. A higher level of funding comes from the UK Government through the UK taxpayer than from the Welsh Government in that process.

[David T. C. Davies]

There we have it. There is money aplenty going in to it from the Welsh Assembly, the British taxpayers and the European Union, but it is still not getting to Monmouthshire. Perhaps we should return to that point. I appreciate the co-operation between members of the Committee. People outside the Committee could perhaps take a lesson on it. I do not want to be too critical of anyone on this Thursday afternoon, but it was interesting that we found in one of our inquiries that there was not quite the co-operation between International Business Wales and UK Trade & Investment that one would like. When the First Minister, or indeed my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Wales, goes off to sell Wales, they should go as part of a joint trade mission so that we can show investors from the far east or elsewhere that the Welsh Assembly and the national Government are speaking with one voice on the importance of inward investment. Whether politicans are Labour, Conservative, Liberal Democrat, Plaid Cymru or from some other party, in the Assembly or Parliament, we all agree on the importance of getting investment into Wales.

[Stephen Crabb]

The Chairman of the Select Committee is making an important point about inward investment. It is worth putting it on the record that last year saw the highest level of inward investment in Wales for almost 25 years. The crucial point, which I think is what he is implying, is that almost all the inward investment projects were secured with the backing and support of UKTI. So collaboration between the Welsh Government and UKTI is vital.

[David T. C. Davies]

I accept that. I am trying not to be too critical of members of other parties. I simply make the point that co-operation is important not only in business but in tourism. I was surprised to learn that VisitBritain and Visit Wales do not have that many discussions with each other. I believe that the Welsh tourism Minister has not met senior people in VisitBritain and vice versa. That is disappointing, frankly, because they all have an interest in making sure that when tourists come to London they are told that the Principality of Wales is only two hours away by train and are encouraged to come and have a look at it.

One of the most topical issues that the Committee has looked at and that I suspect whoever chairs the Committee after the election will want to have another look at is the Severn bridge. The money to be returned to Severn River Crossing will have been paid by 2017. At that point the Government, whoever they are, will have to make a decision on whether to carry on using SRC or some other private company to collect the tolls or to bring the bridge back into public ownership.

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

Nationalise it.

[David T. C. Davies]

I am not normally known as a supporter of nationalisation, but if the bridge is run by a public body—the Government or the Welsh Assembly—the VAT of 20% will no longer be payable. That would be a 20% cut in the tolls overnight. On that basis, I think that I am willing to set aside decades of Conservative thought and call for the nationalisation of the Severn bridge. It would be of enormous benefit to everyone who uses it, including many of my constituents. Furthermore, my Committee looked at the current level of the tolls and we calculated—it was a little bit of a back-of-an-envelope calculation, but no one has yet contradicted it—that the tolls could be set at about one third of the current levels, and that that would be enough to maintain the bridge. No one has ever denied that, and I would be interested to see if anyone can.

Clearly, it is expensive to maintain the bridge. I have been down there and been shown by the engineers how it moves around the whole time. Both bridges are extraordinary structures based at the estuary with the second highest tide in the world. I do not realistically believe that we will ever get rid of the tolls completely, but it would be utterly wrong for the Treasury to use the tolls as some kind of milch cow. The people of Wales and south-west England deserve better than that. The tolls should be drastically cut on top of the cut that should come about as a result of the removal of VAT.

I have discussed this with the Department for Transport, which said, “But we had to spend extra money on the old bridge.” That is true, and it has given me the figures for that. But it is also true that other changes to taxes—VAT, which I have mentioned, and the industrial buildings tax—meant that the Treasury got something of a windfall as well, albeit one that it was not expecting. That windfall, I believe, exceeds the amount of money that was spent on the old bridge. So it is time for a fairer deal for Wales on this issue. I invite my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and my hon. Friend the Minister—I very much hope they are in their jobs after the election—to think about some sort of plan for what we will do post-2017, when the issue will have to be faced by us.

Members of the Committee, whoever they may be after the election, may want to look also at the proposed new M4 relief road. I appreciate that transport affects all of Wales, and north Wales transport links are just as important. Obviously, I know a little bit more about this one, which has greater relevance to my constituency, but it is an all-Wales issue, because the Welsh Assembly is planning to use its new borrowing powers to pay for that route. There is a great big argument going on now about whether it should do that. I put my cards on the table: I am not particularly sympathetic to the environmental arguments being put forward, because many of the people putting forward those arguments would put them forward whatever. They are opposed to any kind of development whatsoever, anywhere. Whether it is houses, roads or anything at all, there are people out there who simply do not like development. I find myself, unusually and perhaps for the first time ever, on the same side as the Welsh Assembly’s Minister for Economy, Science and Transport. That is probably a shock to us both.

Two other issues have been mentioned today which the Committee will clearly want to look at—energy and where we are heading with devolution. On devolution, with the utmost respect, I beg to differ from my hon. Friend the Member for Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies). I am very concerned about what has been happening over the past 15 or 16 years. Every couple of years the Welsh Assembly asks for extra powers, and some sort of committee is set up or somebody is sent off on a roadshow somewhere to hold meetings in village halls at which only a few people turn up, then they come back and write a long report recommending that all sorts of extra powers be given to the Welsh Assembly. Not surprisingly, whoever is in government thinks, “Let’s keep them quiet and give them the extra powers.” On and on it goes, and no thought has been given to where this is going to end.

Scotland always seems to be a few jumps ahead and has now, in effect, got home rule. Northern Ireland has another set of powers and a structure which is rather difficult to understand, but which is obviously shaped to try and keep the peace over there. All these bodies look around at what the others have got, and they will always find something that one lot has which they do not have, and they will say, “It’s not fair. We are being treated unfairly. Why have the Scots got this and we haven’t?” Nobody is looking at what has happened—or rather, what has not happened—in England.

I share the instinctive Unionism of the right hon. Member for Torfaen, but I see the solution as lying in some kind of federal settlement, English Parliament or English votes on English laws, because a failure to address this problem now will mean ever more powers leeching away to Scotland and Wales. Probably in the next 15 or 20 years, but maybe even sooner, there will be another referendum in Scotland. I would not be at all surprised if in my lifetime the Scots voted for independence. Wales will be constantly looking at it, and people will say, “They’ve got it. They can do it. Why can’t we have it? Why can’t we do it as well?”

I genuinely fear that in my lifetime Wales could become an independent nation. There may be some who want to see that happen. I personally do not, and the only way that I think we could stop that is to lock everything into place, possibly through some kind of federal solution, perhaps with a federal parliament overseeing defence, taxation and foreign affairs, but making certain that nobody can go beyond the line. There is no line in the sand at present and we have to draw one, even if that means giving a few extra powers to the Welsh Assembly. If at some point we can say, “There you are. That is it. You can’t have any more because nobody else would be able to have anything more either”, we might be able to lock things up and ensure that there is no further move towards complete independence for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

I was interested to hear the right hon. Member for Torfaen say that he had researched what is done in other nations around the world. I think that we need to look at other nations that have a tradition of British law, such as Canada or perhaps South Africa, and those that do not. I do not think that any country has ever embarked on a process of giving away powers in such an ad hoc fashion. We need to start thinking very carefully and seriously about how we can all agree on a way to prevent devolution leading to fragmentation and the break-up of the Union.

Finally, I want to talk about energy, which the Welsh Affairs Committee takes very seriously. We have looked at issues such as shale gas, but I think that we should also look at nuclear and renewables. The shadow Secretary of State has decried my so-called flat-earth speech. I am sceptical about a lot of what is said about global warming, but I think that many of us agree that taxing carbon and increasing energy prices in a way that hits manufacturing industries in Wales, including some very notable ones, might lead them to consider closing down and taking their business elsewhere, which is something none of us wants to see. We therefore need to think very carefully about any energy policy that will make it harder for our manufacturing industries.

I have very much enjoyed carrying out my role as Chair of the Welsh Affairs Committee and working with hon. Members, on both side of the House. I thoroughly agree with the sentiment expressed here that we need to continue having a Secretary of State dedicated to Wales and—dare I say it?—a robust Select Committee that ensures that whoever has that post is doing a good job.

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

The message I have heard is one of optimism. I might have to disappoint the hon. Member for Monmouth (David T. C. Davies), whom I thought was about to apply to be the Labour candidate in his constituency, because we already have a splendid candidate there. I welcome his epiphany in calling for nationalisation. I am sure that he will be calling for the nationalisation of the top 50 companies next, on his continuing journey to the far left, which I have watched for some time, having known him since he was a schoolboy.

There is so much that is great going on. One of the joys of having been born when I was is rejoicing in the Welsh history that I have lived through. I remember the depressing history of the campaign for hunan-lywodraeth i Gymru through organisations such as Undeb Cymru Fydd and how it collapsed on 16 January 1896 at a meeting in Newport of the two federations of the Liberal party, which of course was almighty at that time. Lloyd George was not allowed to speak, because they were terrified of his persuasive oratory. A Liberal Member for Merthyr stuffed the meeting with people opposed to independence for Wales. We could well have gone down a very different path. The result was that Lloyd George lost enthusiasm and went to campaign against the Boer war.

The story of Wales throughout the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries was one of people going to Westminster, having made all kinds of promises about how they would serve Wales, only to disappoint after being seduced by this place. It is a matter of great pride that I have been in this building when we delivered. My generation has delivered in Wales, and I believe that will eventually lead to strong government, if not independence. We are in a situation in which the forces are moving beyond our control. It will not be little agreements that do it; it will be the force of what happens in Scotland at the general election. Consider the extraordinary change in Ireland when the Queen turned up in a green frock and went to Croke park to bow her head in penitence at the site of an atrocity there. That had a profound effect on Irish thinking. Of course, 200 years of antagonism did not disappear, but it certainly had a great effect. I believe we will see a pattern based on the federation of five nations—not within 10 years, but possibly in 20 to 25 years—and we will have an asymmetric form of devolution that will be appropriate for each one.

I am proud of what is happening in my own city. We have gone through a few rough years, but there is room for great optimism. Our problems are temporary and we can deal with them, but our great treasures and strengths are permanent and will remain, including the mixed character of the people, which is made up of many nations and has a special vigour and enthusiasm and a robust personality. We also have great institutions, including the Celtic Manor. Even though the Prime Minister cannot see the difference between Newport and Newport far west, which is sometimes called Cardiff—he mixed them up yesterday—we have a wonderful hinterland, including the glorious Roman treasures in Caerleon, which represent great strength and beauty in the city. The future is bright.

We have a chance to celebrate our Cymreictod. What a change there has been! In 1962, Saunders Lewis, in his great lecture, “Tynged yr Iaith”, talked about a time in this century when no one would speak Welsh, and Islwyn Ffowc Elis’s book, “Wythnos yng Nghymru Fydd”, was similarly about the death of the Welsh language. But it has not died—it is in vigorous form. A couple of months ago I had the great joy of visiting Ysgol Gwynllyw and talking with the fluent sixth-formers about all the political problems of our day in great detail. It is possible to go to any school in Newport and have a conversation with pupils in simple Welsh at the very least. That is a great triumph. The first school that taught through the medium of Welsh in Newport had 12 pupils in 1970 and they are now 50 years old, and we will see very soon the opening of a secondary school in Newport.

[David T. C. Davies]

I think that school was Clytha primary, which I attended. At that time, the problem was that there was a separate Welsh unit and not much interaction between the two, but I think that has also changed for the better and is supported by Members on both sides of the House.

[Paul Flynn]

Yes, it was St John’s, the old school on the other side of the river, which became part of Clytha primary.

The school was set up in the teeth of all kinds of very powerful opposition, but some of those first pupils who are now 50 years old are now teachers of Welsh themselves in other schools. We are seeing the great triumph of the Welsh language and the great strength that it has now. That is very moving and we should celebrate it. Whenever people ask, “What’s special about the Welsh language?”, I point to its beauty. On Radio 4 last Saturday, somebody who teaches it in Brighton talked about the cadence of the language. Listen to the magic of the words, the soft, seductive words:

“Nant y Mynydd groyw loyw, Yn ymdroelli tua’r pant, Rhwng y brwyn yn sisial ganu; O na bawn i fel y nant!”

The language is also muscular:

“Argoed, Argoed y mannau dirgel, Ble’r oedd dy fryniau, dy hafanu dyfnion, Dy drofau tywyll, dy drefi tawel?”

Oral Answers to Questions

David T C Davies Excerpts

Wednesday 4th March 2015 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Crabb]

I am pleased that the hon. Gentleman has referred to the valleys electrification project. It was a great achievement of this Government, along with the Welsh Government, to secure a deal to deliver electrification not just of the great western line to Swansea but, crucially, through to the valleys communities as well. We look forward to work starting on that project, subject to the Welsh Government agreeing the details, in 2018-19.

[David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that it is not just Jobs Growth Wales but the coalition Government’s long-term economic plan that has delivered the unprecedented falls in youth unemployment, and that the binary choice that will be presented to the people of Wales on 7 May is between jobs, growth and prosperity and debt, deficit and dole queues?

[Stephen Crabb]

As ever, the Chairman of the Welsh Affairs Committee is exactly right. He expresses the situation perfectly. What puts at risk all the great progress we have made in cutting long-term and youth unemployment across Wales is the prospect of a Labour Government who have no plan and no vision for the Welsh economy.

Oral Answers to Questions

David T C Davies Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd December 2014 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Crabb]

The biggest danger to Wales, including north Wales, would be to abandon our clear long-term economic plan, which I know Labour Members are calling for. When I spent two days in north Wales on a business tour last week, I visited many Labour Members’ constituencies and saw just how dynamic the private sector is. Businesses in that sector are leading the economic recovery, so they are the ones that we should be saluting.

[David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con)]

I commend my right hon. Friend on his commitment to the M4 relief road. The Severn bridge will link on to that relief road, so will he consider the importance of having a plan for when it returns to public ownership in approximately 2018?

[Stephen Crabb]

My hon. Friend talks about an important issue that has been raised by Members on both sides of the House in recent months. I commend his work personally and that of his Select Committee on examining the impact of Severn bridge tolls on businesses and consumers in Wales. I share his concerns about the levels of the tolls. I want a long-term plan in place, so I look forward to discussing his ideas with him in more detail.