Oral Answers to Questions

Deidre Brock Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd May 2018 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The Francis report was very important. It highlighted an area of deep concern about what had been happening at the local hospital. I welcome what my hon. Friend says about County Hospital and the work that is being done there. Excellent work is being done to provide safety to patients, to provide more treatments for patients and to provide those services to his constituents and others.

[Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP)]

Q14. The Prime Minister has two groups of Ministers considering different scenarios for a frictionless border with Ireland. We know that the backstop alignment can only be ended if another solution is found. Is not the truth that she does not have a clue how it might work?

[The Prime Minister]

No.

Oral Answers to Questions

Deidre Brock Excerpts

Wednesday 9th May 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Vara]

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. He is right to point out the importance of small and medium-sized businesses, which do a fantastic job in Northern Ireland and contribute a huge amount to the local economy. I have met many of those small businesses, and I have nothing but praise for them. They have contributed to the 52,000 more jobs and 12,300 more businesses since 2010. The Government will continue to engage with organisations such as the Federation of Small Businesses and Invest Northern Ireland so that those small businesses can fulfil their maximum potential.

[Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP)]

There is no progress on the border’s status after Brexit, which will crunch inward investment badly unless Northern Ireland remains part of the customs union. The alternative is a border in the Irish sea. Which is more likely: customs union or sea border?

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[The Prime Minister]

It was indeed very good to see millions of people on the roads of Yorkshire, cheering on the Tour de Yorkshire as it took place this bank holiday weekend. As my hon. Friend says, not only are these events hugely enjoyable for sports fans, but they bring huge economic benefit to the area and they show off the best of Britain to the world. That is why I am delighted that in September next year we will see the cycling road world championships taking place in Yorkshire, bringing the world’s best cyclists to Yorkshire—we are providing financial support for these championships—and I am always happy to visit Yorkshire.

[Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP)]

Q2. A constituent of mine was born in Kirkcaldy to parents who have the right to stay in the UK indefinitely and his entire life has been in Scotland—his schooling, university and now his professional work as a structural engineer—but he cannot get a British passport, and he tells me he fears the knock on the door that so many Windrush people heard. Will the Prime Minister assure my constituent and the many people like him, whose cases are analogous to those of the Windrush people, that they will get the same consideration and be assisted in obtaining citizenship, with the fees waived?

[The Prime Minister]

The former Home Secretary was absolutely clear about the offer that has been made to those people who were covered by the legislation—the Immigration Act 1971—who came to the United Kingdom before 1973. I am sure that the Home Secretary will ensure that the case the hon. Lady has raised is looked into carefully. Often, cases are raised in this House and there is sometimes a complexity to the cases that needs to be looked into very carefully, but I am sure the Home Secretary will ensure that that case is properly considered.

Oral Answers to Questions

Deidre Brock Excerpts

Wednesday 7th March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. We must focus on the independence referendum, not on the European Union.

[Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP)]

Does the Secretary of State not think that, once we have clarity on what Brexit will really mean for the people of Scotland, it is right for them to decide their future, and that it is not for Westminster politicians to stop people making a decision?

[David Mundell]

We had an independence referendum in 2014. The outcome was decisive. We were told ahead of that referendum that it was to be a “once in a generation”—indeed, once in a lifetime—event, and that is what it should be.

Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland: Border Arrangements

Deidre Brock Excerpts

Wednesday 28th February 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

My hon. Friend is spot on.

[Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP)]

From the Foreign Secretary’s comments, it seems that the Government are happy to contemplate a hard border with Ireland, which would be a disaster for Northern Ireland. Is it not now clear that the Government have been negotiating in bad faith with Ireland and the other countries of the EU?

[Mr Lidington]

I have sometimes felt that the hon. Lady’s party would be happy with a hard border between Scotland and England. I do not want her or anyone in the House to be under any misapprehension about this: the Government are absolutely committed to what they agreed in the joint report. Ever since the referendum, we have made it clear that we are not going to support a hard border on the island of Ireland.

Oral Answers to Questions

Deidre Brock Excerpts

Wednesday 7th February 2018 Commons Chamber

[Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP)]

The Prime Minister has been clear that there will be no continuing customs union between the UK and the EU. Does the Secretary of State agree that that means a divergence of regulations between Ireland and Northern Ireland and that paragraph 49 of December’s agreement must be activated? In that case, will she tell us what

“specific solutions to address the unique circumstances of the island of Ireland”

she is proposing?

[Karen Bradley]

The hon. Lady makes the point that there are unique circumstances in Northern Ireland—unique anywhere across the whole of Europe—and those unique circumstances have to be reflected. The UK Government’s intention is to resolve the matter of north-south trade—and east-west trade—through the overall UK-EU agreement, but we are absolutely determined to make sure that we respect the integrity of the north-south border and that we respect the agreements that were made in Belfast nearly 20 years ago.

Capita

Deidre Brock Excerpts

Thursday 1st February 2018 Commons Chamber

[Oliver Dowden]

I thank my hon. Friend for that question, and this is an important point about profit warnings. A profit warning does not mean that a company is imminently going to collapse. A profit warning is a warning to the markets that its results will not be in line with what it had previously thought. If every time that a company issued a profit warning, we as a Government said that we would cease to contract with them, there would be very few companies we could contract with. I will not name leading companies, because I do not want to influence their market value, but I could name a huge list of FTSE 100 companies that routinely issue profit warnings. That does not mean that they are about to disappear.

[Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP)]

For the second time in two weeks, we are discussing a private firm, responsible for the delivery of vital services, that has caught us cold with a profit warning. Will the Minister now acknowledge that there is a role for a proper public sector? Will the Government now start to roll back on the privatisation agenda that they and the previous Labour Government obsessed about? Can we look forward to a proper plan for taking public services back into the public sector? And will he now acknowledge that public sector employees should deliver public services?

[Oliver Dowden]

Of course we acknowledge that there is a proper role for the public sector. That is why, for example, this Government committed at the last election to providing £8 billion more for the NHS and a further £6 billion more for the NHS. To go to the core of the hon. Lady’s argument, the reason that successive Governments of all political persuasions have chosen to engage with the private sector for the delivery of services is that those companies have a speciality in it. They have a speciality in delivering such services, so they can deliver them more efficiently. That means there are savings for the taxpayer. If the Scottish National party position is seriously that we should not have any outsourcing, they need to explain to taxpayers why, instead of ploughing those efficiency savings back into our schools and hospitals, they are choosing to use them to pay for less efficient ways of delivering public services.

Draft European Parliamentary Elections Act 2002 (Amendment) Regulations 2018 Draft European Parliamentary Elections (Amendment) Regulations 2018

Deidre Brock Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd January 2018 General Committees

[Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP)]

It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Moon.

I certainly empathise with the intent behind this move: who would want to continue incurring the cost of elections for a Chamber that will have no further relevance in a few months’ time? There are the obvious additional benefits for the Conservative party, too, in that local difficulties such as Belinda Don and Alex Story can be easily swept under the carpet. Jilted candidates cannot make too much of a fuss if the principle of nomination rather than election has been established, can they? That, though, runs counter to democracy. The idea that a party, or indeed an individual in the case of independents, can simply nominate a new parliamentarian is not one that sits easily with me, and I suspect it will not sit easily with many people.

I accept that the d’Hondt system used on a list appoints rather than elects people to a casual vacancy, but at least those who were on the lists at the general election were put before the voting public. If we run down the route of nominating a party favourite who was not on the lists for the election in question, we are in danger of endorsing the idea that people can become parliamentarians without being subjected to any public scrutiny. The electorate will not have had the chance to endorse—or, more pertinently, to reject— them at the ballot box.

The Minister might be interested to know that the Scottish Parliament operates a d’Hondt system for the additional Member lists for regional MSPs, so if a list is exhausted, the seat lies vacant until the following election. That has happened. The death of Margo MacDonald in 2014 after being elected as an independent on her own list meant that her seat lay vacant for two years, before being filled at the 2016 Holyrood general election.

Personally, I would like to see Ministers take this away and have another think. It would surely be better to be short an MEP or two than to take the democracy out of the system—potentially take the democracy out of the system altogether. However, that is not what is on offer here today and I gather I will be in the minority, so I simply place on record my concerns about possible abuses of the system, and I request that the Minister keep a sharp eye out for such possible practices in future.

Oral Answers to Questions

Deidre Brock Excerpts

Wednesday 20th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[James Brokenshire]

I know firmly that an increasing number of decisions need to be taken. That has been highlighted this week by the Northern Ireland civil service publishing a consultation on budgetary issues, showing some of the determinations that need to be made. I want to see Ministers and an Executive up and running as quickly as possible to do those things. Obviously, it needs to happen quickly, given the decisions that need to be taken.

[Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP)]

If the Irish border deal means no regulatory divergence after Brexit, can the Secretary of State tell us where the regulatory divergence between the UK and the EU will be? Will it be in the Irish sea? Does this mean Northern Ireland is staying in the customs union and single market, or will the UK simply adhere to the rules of the customs union and single market after Brexit, without having any input into the rules?

[James Brokenshire]

I know the Prime Minister dealt with this in her statement on Monday, but let me say that we will be leaving the customs union and the single market. The hon. Lady talks about divergence, but actually the joint report talks about alignment, which is about pursuing the same objectives. That could be the same way, but it could be different. That is the whole point. It is about achieving those positive objectives, and that is what we will do.

Oral Answers to Questions

Deidre Brock Excerpts

Wednesday 6th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Peter Grant (Glenrothes) (SNP)]

9. What recent discussions he has had with Cabinet colleagues on devolving powers to Scotland as a result of the UK’s withdrawal from the EU

[Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP)]

13. What recent discussions he has had with Cabinet colleagues on devolving powers to Scotland as a result of the UK’s withdrawal from the EU

[David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP)]

14. What recent discussions he has had with Cabinet colleagues on devolving powers to Scotland as a result of the UK’s withdrawal from the EU

--- Later in debate ---

[David Mundell]

If the hon. Gentleman has concerns about the procedures of the House of Commons and the House of Lords, he can raise them through the Procedure Committee. He acknowledges exactly what happened: we had a debate; the Government listened and responded; and the Scotland Bill was amended for the better.

[Deidre Brock]

The Federation of Small Businesses Scotland, the Institute of Directors Scotland, the Scottish chambers of commerce, Universities Scotland and many other Scottish organisations have called for a differentiated approach to immigration for Scotland. The problems that my constituents such as Françoise Milne face have crystallised the issue and the human cost. Will the Secretary of State table amendments to clause 11 to support the devolution of immigration and visa controls to Scotland?

[David Mundell]

I do not support the devolution of immigration to Scotland. Three years ago, the Smith commission deliberated on what powers and responsibilities would be held in the Scottish Parliament and what would be held here in Westminster. It was agreed by all parties that Westminster would retain immigration.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Prime Minister]

I thank my hon. Friend for raising an important issue. I am very happy to agree with her on this. Yesterday, we learnt how the UK’s revolution in phonics has dramatically improved school standards. I pay particular tribute to the Minister for School Standards, who has worked tirelessly to this end throughout his time in the House. I also pay tribute to the hard work of teachers up and down the country. I will just give the House the figures. In 2012, 58% of six-year-olds passed reading checks; that figure has risen to 81% this year. We are, indeed, building a Britain that is fit for the future.

[Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP)]

Q11. In October, the Prime Minister wrote an open letter saying that“EU citizens living lawfully in the UK today will be able to stay.”But my constituent, Francoise Milne, was told this week by UK Visas and Immigration that she had to wait until Brexit was done and then take her chances. Will the Prime Minister tell us whether the EU citizens living here are just pawns in the Brexit negotiations, or will she change UKVI’s operating systems to ensure that EU citizens can stay?

[The Prime Minister]

The position on EU citizens that I set out in my open letter is the position of the United Kingdom Government. If the hon. Lady has a complaint about something that UKVI has said, I suggest that she sends that information to the Immigration Minister.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Deidre Brock Excerpts

Committee: 4th sitting: House of Commons
Monday 4th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Ian Murray]

But that assumes that we automatically start from the position of hoarding the powers here at Westminster, and I disagree with that principle. The principle must be that when a power is currently devolved to the devolved Administrations, that power should remain devolved—it is very simple. I accept that Members might not agree with that principle, but it is fairly sensible. My amendment 164 would merely remove from section 29(2)(d) of the Scotland Act 1998, on legislative competence, the words “or with EU law”, meaning that everything else would have to be compatible with the Act.

[Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP)]

rose—

[Ian Murray]

I give way to my parliamentary neighbour.

[Deidre Brock]

The hon. Gentleman mentioned the hoarding of powers at Westminster. One of the biggest problems that I see with clause 11 is that, ultimately, Scottish Ministers will not be able to amend retained EU law, potentially for an indefinite period, although UK Ministers will. That is completely against the word and spirit of the devolution settlement.

[Ian Murray]

It is against the spirit of the devolution settlement, but it is also against the spirit of the referendum that we heard about earlier. The Scottish people, the Welsh people and the Northern Irish people voted for devolution.

There is no doubt that clause 11 is using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. There are many other ways of legislating that would allow a transition on day one that would respect the devolution settlement. The Law Society has put forward such options. As the leader of the SNP said, the way in which the Government are using clause 11 is clear. There is no sunset provision and no timetable is attached. There is no list of powers, and there is no indication of when certain powers should be given priority. There is no commitment to intergovernmental working and there is no real commitment to devolution. We were diverted to today’s discussions in Brussels because that is part of the disrespect for the devolution settlement in this country, which is why the process has become so difficult.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Jenkin]

I have an open mind on that, and I have fiddled around with my amendments, which have not appeared on the order paper today, to see whether we can find a way of doing that. I do not know whether this is the right Bill through which to do that—probably not—but such things are statutory in other decentralised systems. There clearly needs to be something much more formal, but we should perhaps experiment without statute first to see whether it is necessary. My Committee took evidence from one civil servant and a former Speaker’s Counsel who said, “It has worked very well for the past 300 years, so why do we need statute?” but that does not recognise that we now have competing political centres with, I repeat, competing narratives about what the constitution actually is. SNP colleagues talk about the natural sovereignty of the Scottish people, but the legal constitutional reality is that the Queen in Parliament in Westminster is still absolutely sovereign. Those things need to aired, discussed and understood.

[Deidre Brock]

Further to that point, the Scottish Government have consistently made it clear that they cannot support the Bill as it stands, so if the UK Government do not vote for amendment 72 tonight, would that not render the Sewel convention completely pointless and not worth the vellum it is written on?

[Mr Jenkin]

I hear the hon. Lady’s impatience, but we need to be more patient. We are not completing the consideration of this Bill this evening, and I am encouraged by the work done by the First Secretary of State, who chaired the last meeting of the Joint Ministerial Committee and seemed to be drawing people together around some agreed principles for how joint frameworks might be approached. We all want to see that, so let us hope that that work will continue.

--- Later in debate ---

[David Duguid]

I do not recognise those concerns. As has been said by several hon. Members tonight, this is a matter of trust, and I accept that it is probably far easier for Scottish Members on the Government Benches to trust the Government to get on with the job of delivering the Bill as required.

As I said, the leaders of the devolved Governments have an opportunity to help shape the UK’s exit from the EU. This is important because there is a universally recognised need for UK frameworks to protect sectors of our economy heavily influenced by EU laws, particularly agriculture and fisheries, which are very important to my constituency. It is universally recognised, including by the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly, that UK frameworks are necessary and must be established, not imposed, as has been mentioned. This should be done in full partnership with the UK Government. That recognition was shared in what I thought was quite a beautiful moment between the Secretary of State for Scotland and the hon. Member for Edinburgh East (Tommy Sheppard) in a recent meeting of the Scottish Affairs Committee.

[Deidre Brock]

The hon. Gentleman talks about devolved Administrations being involved in discussions, but none of them is involved in the negotiations themselves, because of the UK Government’s decision to exclude them. Does he agree that in the end that was a big mistake?

[David Duguid]

The UK Government are interacting actively with the devolved Administrations, but it has to be recognised that it was the UK that voted to leave the EU and it is the UK that has the responsibility for the negotiations.

It is disappointing that the SNP is attempting to undermine the progress made by its Ministers in Holyrood on working towards UK-wide frameworks that work for Scotland. Despite the best efforts of SNP Members, the United Kingdom is still a united kingdom. To expect powers currently held by Brussels to devolve straight to the Scottish Parliament, without a transitional stage in between, is simply not practical or in Scotland’s long-term interests. I say that as someone who believes that Scotland is better off in the Union, whether or not SNP Members agree.

In conclusion, I am confident, particularly given the bending of ears by my Scottish Conservative colleagues and me, that the Government will do right for Scotland. Devolution will be strengthened, but not by these amendments.

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[Stephen Kerr]

I will say this much: it is not that I do not understand people’s concerns about clause 11, because I share some of those concerns. As the intergovernmental discussions progress and the Bill returns to this House, as it will, before it goes to the other place, it is very much my hope that there will be some greater detail in clause 11 to help all hon. Members to have a degree of confidence in its intent.

We are talking about trust, or the lack of trust, and that issue is keeping us from working out a satisfactory agreement. Steps must be taken to underpin the trust that needs to exist on both sides—the UK Government and the devolved Administrations. The UK Government will have to demonstrate trustworthiness in the way that the Bill is amended, as it must be, and the Scottish Government will have to show trustworthiness by committing themselves to the outcome of these talks to the extent that they will publicly state their support for the passage of a legislative consent motion in the Scottish Parliament. To me, that is what trust looks like.

[Deidre Brock]

If the UK Government genuinely wish to show willing towards the Scottish Government and their concerns about the Bill and clause 11 specifically, does the hon. Gentleman not think that powers should be devolved directly to the devolved Administrations first and then that frameworks should be agreed? One wonders what the UK Government are actually afraid of. The hon. Member for East Renfrewshire (Paul Masterton) spoke about powers being devolved when the UK Government think it is safe to do so. Why is there such concern about not sending those powers to the Scottish Government?

[Stephen Kerr]

There are, as we have discussed, either 109 or 111 powers. The Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee report lists 111. There is an issue of trust that we need to address to underpin any eventual agreement. The point is that the Bill will need to be amended. Those amendments will need to reflect where the powers will eventually rest, and whether they will go straight to the devolved Administrations on the day we leave the European Union, or if some will be subject to mutual agreements—memorandums of understanding—that will create the frameworks to support the functioning of the UK’s internal market. I hope very much that the Government will bring forward some detail to add light with regard to those issues.

--- Later in debate ---

Crucially, the discussions and work we are undertaking now with the devolved Administrations will help us establish where common approaches are not necessary. I want to emphasise that we believe that in the majority of the policy areas where EU law intersects with devolved competence, common frameworks will not be required at all, or can be achieved through non-legislative means like concordats, and in these cases clause 11 provides a mechanism to release decision-making powers from the temporary competence arrangement through the Order in Council procedure, giving new powers to the devolved Administrations.

[Deidre Brock]

On the temporary nature of these proposals, why have the Government not chosen just to put in place a sunset clause? Why is no date indicated, because the lack of one creates an enormous amount of uncertainty for everyone?

[Chris Skidmore]

The issue around placing a sunset clause on this provision is that, in a way, it creates an artificial cliff edge. The sole purpose of clause 11 is to ensure that the UK statute book is complete on exit day. We want to ensure that we work towards common frameworks, and that we can ensure that, when we have that statute book prepared for exit day, we have common frameworks and non-common frameworks in place. Having a sunset clause creates an artificial cliff edge to work towards that date, whereas we might want to create some of those frameworks before that date, and there might need to be some corrections to the withdrawal agreement and the EU withdrawal agreement Bill that has been announced, and some deficiencies that need to be corrected. Having a sunset clause is therefore unhelpful for the purposes of this clause in itself.

Returning to the issue of the policy areas where EU law intersects with devolved competence, as I have said, common frameworks will not always be required, or can be achieved through non-legislative means like concordats, and in such cases clause 11 provides a mechanism to release decision-making powers from the temporary competence arrangement through the Order in Council procedure, giving new powers to the devolved Administrations.

--- Later in debate ---

[Deidre Brock]

I appreciate the opportunity to speak. I rise in support of amendments 72, 184 and 185. I am disappointed the Minister will not accept a single amendment or new clause tonight.

It is clear from the amendments that have been tabled, and from many speeches we have heard today, that there is general opposition among Members to the power grab in the Bill, even from people who aspire to be Whitehall Ministers and would wield that power if they did. I also think that the previous Prime Minister—the one who dragged us into this mess with his cunning plan of a referendum—would oppose it. His respect agenda did not run very far, but it did at least run. I urge the current crop of Ministers to aspire at least to clear that very low bar.

The Scottish Secretary has assured us on several occasions that powers repatriated from Brussels will be held at Westminster only temporarily. We could call that the “fluffy protocol”, or the political equivalent of “It’s only resting in my account, guv.” As yet, however, we have seen nothing to suggest there is anything coming down the road to confirm that that is guaranteed to happen. If that were the intention, surely the sensible, logical and easy thing to do would be to have a sunset clause in the Bill that would see the powers transferred to devolved Administrations timeously. Numerous experts, including witnesses to the Scottish Affairs Committee, on which I sit, have advocated that but, like several other things that should have been achieved, that has not happened.

The in-depth analyses of the effects of Brexit that were promised have not been delivered to the devolved Administrations. Some extremely superficial desk research was proffered as if it were the Rosetta stone, but the paucity of what has been delivered leads me to the inescapable conclusion that the Government have no idea what is or might be down the road, or what turns the road might be taking before we get there. The only certainty Ministers seem to have is that the map says “Here be no monsters”. Well, there are monsters, and they are in the Bill. The monsters are those that will damage devolution settlements with the tearing away of responsibility, power and resources from the devolved Administrations to be sucked into the abyss that is a Whitehall trying to deal with Brexit.

Judging by the confusion, bewilderment and disorientation that we have seen so far, just today, in fact, the aftershocks of Brexit are likely to keep hitting the UK—its economy, its international standing and its ability to attract immigrants—for decades. There are no indications that anyone in Whitehall will have the time, patience or inclination to run the rule over coming legislation to make sure that Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are properly considered. The devolved Administrations deserve the right to try to mitigate the deleterious effects of Brexit as much as is possible. I believe that the attitudes in each of those Administrations, including Stormont when it gets back on its feet, will differ from those here in great measure on a number of issues. My hon. Friends have already made significant reference to that issue. I appreciate that large swathes of England are about to get sideswiped by the effects of Brexit as well. They undoubtedly have cause for complaint, but I am here to speak for Scotland.