Transitional State Pension Arrangements for Women

Fiona Mactaggart Excerpts

Wednesday 24th February 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Vara]

I am simply speaking from my personal experience of speaking to women. There are women who have said to me that they want the restoration of the 1995 rules. Colleagues in this House have had people in their surgeries speaking of 1995. The hon. Gentleman may not have had that—he may be out of touch, but the rest of us are not. When we talk of £77 billion or even £30 billion, we are not talking about a few million pounds or a few billion pounds. In both contexts, we are talking of tens of billions of pounds. That situation is simply not sustainable.

[Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab)]

When the hon. Gentleman says that £30 billion was saved as a result of the 2011 changes, what he is saying is that there was a transfer from one of the poorest groups in our society, which is women in their 50s. That group of women saw the largest growth in unemployment under the coalition Government and are more likely to have to work after retirement than men. When they do so, two thirds of them work on the lowest wage levels, unlike men who work after retirement, two thirds of whom work on the highest wage levels. What does he have to say about picking the pockets of the poorest women in our society?

[Mr Vara]

I will address some of the points that the right hon. Lady makes, because there is a broader context to this debate, rather than simply the issue of the pension age. Given the opportunity, I would like to make some progress.

People are living longer and leading healthier lives. Of course, that is to be welcomed, but it does increase the pressure on the state pension scheme. As a Government, we have a responsibility to keep it affordable and sustainable for future generations.

Transitional State Pension Arrangements for Women

Fiona Mactaggart Excerpts

Monday 1st February 2016 Westminster Hall

[Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to be here under your chairmanship, Mr Hanson. I thank WASPI and the Petitions Committee for ensuring that this subject is once again debated in the House. I hope that we get more of a response this time.

Like my hon. Friend the Member for Warrington North (Helen Jones), I am one of the 1950s generation who is luckily protected by the parliamentary pension scheme. I was slightly late being born, so instead of my pension being delayed until 2018, it is actually only delayed until November 2017. Jumps are inevitable when such arrangements are changed; the problem is that women need enough time to plan, and the difficulty with the 1995 changes and even more so with the more recent changes is that the time left for women to plan was inadequate.

I received a pension statement in 2005 that stated:

“Retirement may seem a long way off but thinking about it now can make a big difference to your future.”

The postscript said:

“Remember, no matter how far off retirement may be, acting today can make a big difference to your future.”

At no point did the letter tell me that my retirement was going to happen not when I was 60, but when I was closer to 64. That is the point: I am not unusual. The letter told me exactly what my basic pension entitlement would be at that year’s cash equivalent and what my additional pension would be. It was a personalised letter. It would not have been hard for the “Retirement Pension Forecasting Team” to have included a line: “and this is the date at which your retirement will happen”, but it did not. That is a case of the state letting down the citizen.

As many have said, this is a contract between the state and the citizen. We hear that the change is about equalisation, so let us talk about equality—a subject about which I am passionate. Men’s and women’s pensions are not equal. A European Union research document states that

“pensions tend to be more unequal between men and women than other forms of income”.

Women in their 50s—those of us who fought for the Equal Pay Act 1970 and discovered that it did not deliver us equal pay—have the biggest pay gap compared with men than any other age group. There are other forms of inequality: when I was secretary of the Labour party’s commission on older women, I heard many women make a point that was summed up well by one of my constituents: “We are last in the queue for a job and first in the queue for a redundancy.” That is absolutely typical for women in their 50s.

Age discrimination in employment affects women much more than men. Some interesting American research used a technique that was employed when studying race discrimination and job applications. Stating a women’s name and an age and then a man’s name and an age found that age discrimination, while present for both, is some three or four times as extreme for women. That is why we should be talking about equality. We are discussing women who have suffered more than any other group from inequality in pay and pensions.

When people talk about using new pension freedoms to deal with the problem, let us be clear that those new pension freedoms actually help those with big pension pots much more than those with small pension pots. Who has big pension pots? The guys. Who has small pension pots? The women—and they are better off hanging on to annuities than using pension freedoms, as any financial journalist will affirm.

These women are saving the state huge amounts of money. They care for their children and grandchildren and look after elderly parents. They get no recompense for that, but Government Members have the cheek to say that those are the women who should pay for the deficit. It is unacceptable. The time has come to ensure that we get real equality in pensions and that these women are not made to pay for the problem.

Prisons and Secure Training Centres: Safety

Fiona Mactaggart Excerpts

Monday 11th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

Absolutely.

[Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab)]

Given that there are currently record numbers of assaults in prisons, that a third of the deaths in prisons are self-inflicted, and that this year has seen a bigger increase than any other year in violence in our prisons, what is the Minister doing to make young people who are in prison because they have been offenders safe while they are there, in our care?

[Michael Gove]

Neither I, the Youth Justice Board nor the Ministry are in denial about the scale of the problem that we face. One reason why we initiated this review, which started in September, was that we realised that there was much that needed to be done to improve the care and welfare of young people in custody and those who come into contact with the criminal justice system. One reason why I have responded as I have done today is that I am determined to ensure that Charlie Taylor has all the support he needs to make radical suggestions, if necessary, to transform the opportunities available to those young people. But as has been pointed out by the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael) and my hon. Friend the Member for Kettering (Mr Hollobone), there are so many different parts in the criminal justice system that relate to the fate of young people and for which this Government are responsible, from social work through education to the secure estate, that we need to be clear that when we come forward with proposals, they are coherent and meet the need of the hour.

State Pension Age (Women)

Fiona Mactaggart Excerpts

Thursday 7th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[Carolyn Harris]

I most certainly agree with my hon. Friend.

In 1995, 2020 seemed a long time away. In 2007, the Labour Government decided to increase the retirement age for both men and women to 66, but included a caveat that no changes would be made until 2024. In 2011, the coalition Government unsurprisingly reneged on that caveat and set a new timetable that was tough on women and broke a pledge that there would be no change until after 2020.

[Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab)]

Does my hon. Friend accept that that is not the only way in which older women have been discriminated against? The raising of the tax threshold disadvantages older women much more than it disadvantages any other group, and the pay gap for older women is bigger than for any other group. Do we not need to hear the voice of older women more clearly in politics, as it is obviously being completely ignored by the Government?

[Carolyn Harris]

I agree entirely with my right hon. Friend and consider myself to be in that age group—I am an older woman in politics.

Police Funding Formula

Fiona Mactaggart Excerpts

Monday 9th November 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mike Penning]

I am deeply conscious that we must make sure that there is confidence in a Department, particularly the two Departments that I represent. I met the permanent secretary this morning, and the Home Secretary, the permanent secretary and I are meeting tomorrow.

[Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab)]

The Minister will be aware that rapid population growth creates challenges for the police. Violent crime in Slough, which I represent, has increased by 18.5% over the past year. When re-examining the formula, will he work in a transparent way, because that is critical to trust in policing by consent? Will he perhaps adopt the suggestion made by my right hon. Friend the Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz), the Chair of the Select Committee, and take into account the challenges created in areas of high population growth?

[Mike Penning]

One of the reasons that we need a new formula is the high population growth that has taken place, particularly in Slough. That is why the formula needed to be changed, and because it was so opaque. I rest my case.

Saudi Penal System

Fiona Mactaggart Excerpts

Tuesday 13th October 2015 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

Our diplomats, operating in our embassy in Saudi Arabia, regularly visit any British citizens who may find themselves caught up in conflict or in the Saudi Arabia criminal justice system, and, as well as providing that consular support, we obviously exercise whatever diplomatic influence we can. However, my hon. Friend is right to stress that the broader security co-operation between Saudi Arabia and the United Kingdom is friendly, and that it is in the interests of our citizens for it to be maintained so that we can safeguard their security.

[Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State has taken a sensible decision today. He also rightly pointed out that Britain’s role internationally is to encourage other countries to respect the rule of law and that our diplomats spend a lot of time campaigning against the death penalty. However, the rule of law in Saudi Arabia includes amputations and floggings. What will Britain do to try to encourage those countries whose law permits cruel and unusual punishment as part of their justice system to stop it, because that is not justice?

[Michael Gove]

The right hon. Lady makes a powerful point. It is important to recognise that Saudi Arabia is a deeply conservative country and is going through a period of transition. We want to encourage that transition and modernisation within that country while at the same time respecting the nature of any diplomatic conversation and any diplomatic relationship. That is why it is right that the Foreign Office—its diplomats and Ministers—continue the good work they are doing in encouraging the Saudi regime to adopt a more modern approach.

Human Rights Act

Fiona Mactaggart Excerpts

Tuesday 30th June 2015 Westminster Hall

[Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the future of the Human Rights Act 1998.

I am delighted to welcome you to the Chair, Mr Betts, and to see that we have a healthy turnout of Members and non-Members here today. I am grateful to the organisations that provided briefings ahead of today’s debate. I should particularly like to place on the record my appreciation of the efforts of Liberty, Amnesty International, and the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

The Gracious Speech included a commitment by Her Majesty’s Government to introduce proposals for a British Bill of Rights. I was pleased that it was framed in such terms for two reasons. First, it is still apparently the policy of Her Majesty’s Government that it should be approached at least on a British, if not UK-wide, basis. Secondly, I was pleased that they are seeking to bring forward proposals and not, as in respect of other commitments in the Gracious Speech, legislation. I take it from that that we are in a place where there is still a debate to be had and where thinking is still going on within government, and I welcome that. I hope that today’s debate is an early part of the debate that will be conducted elsewhere, within the Chamber and the Select Committees in this House and the other place, and even within the various all-party groups. I also hope that this debate will, as befits a subject of this magnitude, be conducted in a thoughtful way and one that accepts good faith and differences on all sides.

The Minister has a significant background in the area of human rights and I do not question his good faith in this matter. I would probably disagree with him both on the definition of the rights and also on the way in which they might be perfected, but I certainly accept his background and his good faith. I hope that the debate in government will not take as its starting point the paper published last year by the former Lord Chancellor, the right hon. Member for Epsom and Ewell (Chris Grayling), which was entitled “British Bill of Rights and Responsibilities”.

The right hon. and learned Member for Beaconsfield (Mr Grieve), whom I am pleased to see in his place today, said that that paper contained a number of howlers which are quite simply factually inaccurate. Those who have known the right hon. and learned Gentleman for as long as I have will know that for him such language borders on the intemperate. Those within government who are considering how to proceed in this way would do well to listen to his words. I expressed that view at the time as a Cabinet Minister. I felt that that contribution to the debate failed to take proper account of the way in which the Human Rights Act had become part of the constitutional architecture of the United Kingdom.

The right hon. and learned Member for Beaconsfield also asked the question that goes to the nub of the issue: what are we seeking to achieve here? Having seen recent pronouncements within government, that remains the question. To answer that question, however, we first need an answer to a much more fundamental question: what is the Government’s intention in relation to the European convention on human rights? Is it that we should remain party to the convention, or will the Government at some future stage, if they are unable to achieve their stated aims, countenance withdrawal from it?

It is worth reminding ourselves of exactly what the Human Rights Act does and the change that it wrought after its implementation. In a dry legal sense, it allows access to convention rights through our domestic courts. Section 2 of the Act says that in reaching judgment our UK domestic courts must take account of the European Court of Human Rights judgments. Whether this was to be extended to make it a binding precedent was considered in the other place during the passage of the Bill and was expressly excluded, so I think the ambit and the extent of the operation of section 2 is an important part that is often misunderstood or just ignored.

The Human Rights Act has brought much more than dry jurisprudence to our legal system and to our constituents. It has offered many of our fellow citizens a basic, fundamental right to respect and dignity in their dealings with government and other public bodies. To take a few instances, it has allowed people with mental health problems the opportunity to retain some rights and some control over their own lives when dealing with the national health service; it has allowed victims of crime to insist on proper investigation of the crimes from which they have suffered; and it has allowed families to be kept together in circumstances in which the operation of the state might otherwise have kept them apart. At its most basic, it has in one instance ensured the right to life. In one case that was offered by way of a working example, a patient suffering from dementia was on a ward where he had been subject to a “do not resuscitate” order. On investigation, it was found that the doctor in charge of the ward had imposed such an order in respect of everybody on the ward without discrimination. At its most fundamental, the Human Rights Act protected the patient’s right to life.

I suspect that such cases are the easy cases. If we dealt only with the easy cases, we probably would not be here today. There is no denying that the application of the Human Rights Act has produced a number of controversial cases. The cases of Abu Qatada and those relating to the right of prisoners to vote are two that spring most readily to mind. This goes to the heart of the matter for me. Human rights are not just there for the nice people. If we are to defend human rights in a meaningful and worthwhile way, we have to be prepared to defend the rights of the unworthy individual from a legitimate authority, or the right of an unpopular minority against the popular majority. Perhaps I should declare an interest: as a Liberal Democrat, I know what it is to be part of an unpopular minority.

For such reasons, the Human Rights Act is inevitably going to be unpopular in government, because it stops Ministers doing what they might otherwise wish to do and what they might otherwise find it expedient to do. That is why, if the protections are to be meaningful, they must be overseen by the judiciary, and not by Parliament or by the Executive, who are insulated from the mood of public opinion at any given time. That brings us back to the question posed by the right hon. and learned Member for Beaconsfield: what are we hoping to achieve here? In truth, the Abu Qatada case and the right of prisoners to vote are cases that, before the Human Rights Act, would have got to Strasbourg. Those are exactly the sorts of cases that we saw going from this country over the years.

The question that then arises is if we are trying to get round these cases by somehow seeking to repatriate jurisdiction, what does that mean for the United Kingdom’s future as a contracting party to the European convention on human rights? When the Minister responds to the debate, I hope he will answer this question: what is the Government’s position in relation to our continued future as a contracting party to the convention on human rights? Are there circumstances in which the Government would be prepared to leave the convention? Doing so would put us in rather select company: it would be us and Belarus, and that is not the company I envisaged the United Kingdom finding itself in. In previous Parliaments, I worked with Amnesty International and other organisations on the worldwide abolition of the death penalty. I campaigned with various groups in the United States, South Korea, Japan and elsewhere. The UK has tremendous standing on human rights across the world. We would lose a lot if we walked away from the convention and put ourselves in the company of Belarus. We should be doing what we can to bring Belarus within the convention; we should not be seeking to join it outside.

I want briefly to consider the constitutional architecture of which the Human Rights Act is now such an important part. For example, it is hardwired into the devolution settlements in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

[Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab)]

Before the hon. Gentleman gets to that issue, he has just been dealing with UK jurisdiction delivered by the 1998 Act. Is he aware of the appalling delays that existed before the Human Rights Act? For example, in the case of Abdulaziz, Balkandali and Cabales, which I was involved in when director of the Joint Council for the Welfare of Immigrants, women were separated from their husbands for seven years before getting a judgment that proved that the then British immigration rules breached their human rights.

[Mr Carmichael]

Indeed; the time it took to get such cases to court—and the need to have the means to do so—was a glaring injustice, and that situation was affected by the introduction of the Human Rights Act. People needed money, or somebody behind them with the means, to get access to human rights. We should not return to that.

On the devolution settlements, the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly both have the Human Rights Act hardwired into them: their Acts must be compatible with it. It has already been established that if this is to change, at least for the Scottish Parliament a legislative consent motion would be required in accordance with the Sewel convention. Given recent votes in that Parliament, I do not see how that is going to happen.

The situation in Northern Ireland is even more acute, because there the Human Rights Act is the subject of part of the Good Friday agreement. The second part of the “Rights, Safeguards and Equality of Opportunity” section of the agreement states:

“The British Government will complete incorporation into Northern Ireland law of the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR), with direct access to the courts, and remedies for breach of the Convention, including power for the courts to overrule Assembly legislation on grounds of inconsistency.”

The creation of the Police Service of Northern Ireland and the body overseeing it, the Northern Ireland Policing Board, have given effect to that.

--- Later in debate ---

[Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Betts, and to salute the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael), the former Secretary of State for Scotland, for initiating and leading this debate. He dealt with the devolution issue extraordinarily well and none of us disagreed with his fundamental point that to unravel devolution agreements by challenging the Human Rights Act would not be wise.

I ask the Minister for his interpretation of “taking into account”. We need clarification of that, following the exchanges of this debate. When I tell someone that I am taking their views into account, I am usually saying, “I heard, but I’m not going to do it.” We need to recognise that that is really what the phrase means. That is why it is probably unwise of the Government to be quite so controversial in their proposals.

The other issue to consider is what a Bill of Rights looks like. Without giving a history lesson, we already have a Bill of Rights. It was passed in 1689, but it did not actually do the job that the Government will have in mind for any future such Bill. The danger is that once rights start to be defined they can be restricted. Calibrating or describing rights is not as easy as it first appears. The risk is that a Bill of Rights could be too tight or too loose. It is important that we see what the Bill of Rights might look like.

[Fiona Mactaggart]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the problem with the rights debate in Britain has been that, unlike countries such as South Africa, we have failed to debate what to do when rights clash? For example, the right to private and family life and the right to protest clash, and we in Britain have not debated how to deal with those clashes.

[Neil Carmichael]

My way at looking at things in terms of English law is that I prefer to assume that I have a right unless Parliament has told me that I do not. That is how we should be operating.

Doing something different from what we have done in the past also has international implications. As we have already heard, the architect of the European Court of Human Rights was a former Conservative Home Secretary who was not a libertarian in the true sense of the word. Leaving the Court would be to depart from that tradition and would risk our international reputation while making it harder still for other nations to think in terms of their own aspirations for rights, and might not discourage others in their intention not to give rights. The issue is not only legal, but one of foreign policy.

In short, we must consider the matter carefully. I would prefer to have legislation that improves what we already have, rather than undermining and changing the structure that we have become used to.

Oral Answers to Questions

Fiona Mactaggart Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Caroline Dinenage]

A large proportion of Ministry of Justice roles involve front-line prison staff, whose working environment is, of course, more physically rigorous than those of staff with office-based roles. It is important to note that other Departments’ sickness numbers do not include front-line roles such as those of soldiers, police officers and, indeed, nurses. When we take into account only civil servants who are employed in Whitehall, we see that Ministry of Justice staff actually take fewer sick days than those in other Departments.

[Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab)]

But that suggests that it is prison officers who have been the victim of assaults by prisoners, for example, who are taking sickness absence. What is this year’s rate of assaults on prison officers, and what is the Department doing to reduce it?

[Caroline Dinenage]

Of course the Department takes any assault on a prison officer incredibly seriously. It is essential that prison officers feel that the full weight of the state is behind them as they fulfil their duties. When there are serious assaults on prison staff, the perpetrators will be prosecuted unless there is an extremely good reason for not doing so.

Oral Answers to Questions

Fiona Mactaggart Excerpts

Tuesday 17th March 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Members must calm down. The right hon. Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart) is a distinguished ornament of this House, a celebrated figure, a former Minister. Decorum, I remind her.

[Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab)]

The Minister did not answer the question.

[Mr Speaker]

When the right hon. Lady was a Minister, she had to answer questions. She is not burdened with that responsibility at present.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Speaker]

The right hon. Lady’s moment has arrived. I call Fiona Mactaggart.

[Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab)]

19. How many women who have been victims of domestic violence applied for legal aid in proceedings relating to their children in the latest period for which figures are available; and if he will make a statement.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Mr Shailesh Vara)]

From July to September 2014, there were 3,097 applications for legal aid in relation to private law proceedings under the Children Act 1989. Due to the way in which data are collected, that figure includes applications where there was evidence of child abuse and applications that were made by men. I will write to the right hon. Lady to provide a breakdown of applications by gender.

[Fiona Mactaggart]

I asked for the figures because the gateway into legal aid for victims of domestic violence requires them to provide evidence that they have been victims of domestic violence in the last two years. We know that abusers use child custody and access arrangements to further abuse their victims. What is the Minister doing about that?

[Mr Vara]

What the right hon. Lady does not seem to accept is that the Minister is listening. He has increased the criteria that are required. Thousands of people have successfully applied for legal aid in domestic violence cases and many more will doubtless be successful.

Oral Answers to Questions

Fiona Mactaggart Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Simon Hughes]

The incentives and earned privileges policy framework is an important reform to ensure that privileges in prison are no longer automatic. It is a reform that we brought in—it was not the case under the last Labour Government—and I hope Labour now supports the principle that people should earn privileges. On women’s clothing, however, female prisoners are not required to wear prison clothing; unlike male prisoners, they do not have to earn the right to wear their own clothing. There has always been a restriction on the number of items of clothing they can have in their cells, but I have insisted that there be no restriction on the amount of underwear they are permitted at all times when in custody.

[Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab)]

10. How many prison officers have been assaulted during the course of their work in the last 12 months; and if he will make a statement.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Andrew Selous)]

There were 3,470 assaults on staff in the year to 30 September 2014, and I can assure the hon. Lady that I get angry and upset at every single one. There is growing evidence that the increased smuggling of new synthetic drugs into prisons is a major factor in levels of prison violence, and we have already announced a series of measures to crack down on it. We will ensure that governors have the powers and support they need to tackle the problem.

[Fiona Mactaggart]

Is the Minister as shocked as I am at the number of serious assaults in male prisons? The number has nearly doubled from 241 in September 2009 to 418 last September. Will he look at the record when the Conservatives were last in charge of our prisons, when they cut prison officer numbers and then had to undertake an emergency recruitment programme in 1996?

[Andrew Selous]

The hon. Lady is right that these are extremely serious issues, but there is a growing body of evidence that the increase in the number of serious assaults is linked to the increase in new psychoactive substances in prisons. I hear that from governors and prison officers in every prison I visit. We have taken a series of measures, announced only a couple of days ago by the Secretary of State, to give governors more powers to crack down on the problem. We are trying to educate families and friends of prisoners not to smuggle these substances into prisons. If we can reduce the amount of those drugs in prisons, we will reduce levels of violence. All those things, along with the protocol with the police and Crown Prosecution Service and the increased use of body-worn cameras, will help to tackle this serious issue.