Copyright (Rights and Remuneration of Musicians, etc.) Bill

Geraint Davies Excerpts

Friday 3rd December 2021 Commons Chamber

[Dean Russell]

Absolutely; my hon. Friend makes a powerful point. I recall that in the early 2000s there were sites such as Napster, which in their very early stages shared content that I am sure the artist did not even know was being shared. Over time, of course, they changed their approaches. That is such an important point. We have to get the right balance between protecting artists 100%, ensuring innovation with regard to platforms and new forms of engaging with media and music, and making sure that we remain competitive in the UK. If we do not do that, we may do a disservice to up-and-coming artists, especially independent ones, over time.

Let me continue my music life story. I am pleased to have the artist Limahl—Members may know him—in my constituency. I was chatting to him just today about this issue. I have just realised that I do not want Members to think I am going to give the “Never Ending Story” of my life—the first of many puns; I apologise. From there, though, my love of music was in discovering it and meeting other people who loved it.

One thing we do not often think about with regard to streaming is the ability it gives us to find like-minded fans—to engage with others, to support others and to find people who are also really into certain bands and musicians, often very niche ones. Those musicians are not always pop or rock-and-roll stars; they may be musicians who work on film soundtracks or spend time as backing singers or backing artists. That shows the breadth of what we talk about when we are discussing streaming and, in terms of copyright and its role in legislation and in Government, the complexity that is involved in what look, on the surface, like very simple changes; actually, when we dig deeper, we realise that they affect people in many ways. I urge the Government to ensure—I have had warm words and clear assurances on this—that they engage now and make sure that we have those conversations with all parties so that we do not just end up representing one group and inadvertently creating issues for many others.

Let me fast-forward—or skip forward, perhaps, in the music terminology—to university. Not many people know this, but I did poetry when I was at university. I even did poetry on stage, which is probably what led me a few years later to publish some children’s books. I was fortunate to meet some fantastic, like-minded people who were setting up a radio station at my university, De Montfort University in Leicester. We set up—I say “we”, but they did most of the work; my friends set up a radio station called DemonFM. This was about 25 years ago. These incredible people, including a guy called Chris North, one of my friends, were instrumental in making that radio station happen. We came together not because we all liked the same music but because we loved music, and we loved making sure that people could hear that music wherever they lived in Leicester, within the available FM range. For me, that meant tapping into a group who were not just passionate about music, but actually doing something about it; one of the important themes of our discussion is making sure that we do not inadvertently limit people’s ability to access music, whether that is via streaming or through radio and other routes. During that time, I met some incredibly inspirational people, some of whom went on to work in the industry or in radio.

[Geraint Davies]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I ask your guidance on whether this is in order. It seems to be an interesting story about the hon. Gentleman’s life, but it is not really relevant to the Bill, is it?

--- Later in debate ---

[Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op)]

Mr Deputy Speaker, being from the land of song, as I am, I am sure that you would have enjoyed the reception last night that my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan) hosted with musicians. We heard the beautiful voice of Sarah Angel and many up-and-coming and existing artists and musicians were there. Being from Swansea, I know many up-and-coming artists there too. The important point that is coming across is that although some of them have been successful in the past, they look to the future with fear.

The up-and-coming ones are saying, “Hold on, if I get 1 million streams, I’ll get £100—but what about the cost of my travel, the studio or having lunch? Maybe there’ll be musicians with me, or maybe I’ll co-produce or co-write a song, so I’ll get just half that, but I still have to pay those costs. It doesn’t work.” We have just gone through an appalling pandemic, so people in the music industry who are atomised freelancers and self-employed have not been able to enjoy the fruits of live gigs. Instead, they have depended on the meagre crumbs off the table of the industry to survive with great difficulty.

We have heard about Spotify and other platforms such as Apple, Amazon and Google, and how marvellous it is that we can carry the world’s music in our pockets. That is true, but most people probably consume the equivalent of only 12 albums a year on their Spotify account and just play their favourite music again and again. If those had been 12 CD sales instead, the artists would have got much more. We are in a situation where, although we have great scope for choice, that choice is not exercised. It is important that artists get their fair share to nourish them for the future.

[Mike Wood]

I know that the hon. Gentleman will have read the IPO’s report, so he will have seen the chart showing that at the end of 2015, about 16,000 artists made up 90% of Spotify’s streams. By the second quarter of last year, that number had gone up to 43,000, so the market is much more fragmented. That extra choice is great for consumers, but it means that the income is being shared by far more artists than ever before.

[Geraint Davies]

There is more choice; there are more artists. Some eight out of 10 artists earn less than £200 year from streaming, which is not acceptable.

[Mr Whittingdale]

rose—

[Geraint Davies]

I will come to the right hon. Gentleman in a moment, because no doubt he will want to remind us how reasonable it is that the CEO of Universal gets £153 million a year, which is more than the entirety of sales and of streaming for all UK artists and songwriters, including people such as Ed Sheeran. To get that from streaming, as I mentioned, he would have to have 1.5 million million streams. Despite the claims that he does play a musical instrument, I doubt that he could create that. On that point, I give way.

[Mr Whittingdale]

The hon. Gentleman makes a great deal of how little an artist receives for 1 million streams, but in fact, 1 billion streams is not that much. To give an example, Mabel, one of our most successful up-and-coming artists achieved more than 4 billion streams. The income from 1 million streams is equivalent to the income from 1,000 CD sales. CDs do not cost a huge amount, which is why many artists do not receive a great deal of income, because they are not being listened to in the quantity that generates the large incomes that successful artists enjoy.

[Geraint Davies]

The point I was making is that the share that is given to up-and-coming musicians is not enough. The right hon. Gentleman may claim that 1 million streams is not very much, but I would very much enjoy a small fraction of that for this speech anywhere it was shown. It is a lot for a musician to break through that million mark. I appreciate that, in the global marketplace, there are stars who break through into the billions, but that is not the point. The point is that we in Britain should be nurturing our young people to come forward as composers, artists, performers and song writers. If they are going to have the facility to invest in their own skills, equipment and song writing, and if we are to have a situation where we have a broad diversity of people and the future music industry is not completely reliant on people with rich parents, we need to give due reward on streaming to those people who will create the joy and music of the future.

There are new opportunities—TikTok, YouTube and so on—that did not exist in the past for people to express themselves; it is not the case that someone cannot possibly achieve everything without a label and therefore they need this immense amount of money. As was briefly mentioned, the managing director of Universal does not pay British tax, but in addition, the way the finances are managed is such that some artists are paid in dollars and the Exchequer here does not see the fruits of British production, which we should enjoy as well as the artist having their due rewards.

The fact is that music is integral to Britain’s identity here and abroad, whether we go back to the Beatles, the Rolling Stones and Annie Lennox or look at what we have now in Adele, One Direction or whatever. The point has been made already about the hundreds of thousands of people in the industry and its importance for the export and tourism markets. I think we are duty bound to feed the people who are the creative engines of that success, and not to allow it to be sapped away through blood-sucking multinational corporations that hide the tax and keep the revenue and exercise market abuse and dominance in an atomised market of well-meaning people who, in their younger years, often sign contracts without the privilege of a huge legal team behind them to give them cover, so if they are fortunate in being successful, they find they are ripped off by these big labels and then are unable to go back and look at that contract again. Many of those contracts, of course, contain non-disclosure agreements, so we do not really know what is happening.

In a nutshell, we are talking about an industry of a collective of people who provide joy, happiness and exhilaration for the globe as well as Britain, and they have done so particularly during the pandemic, which has been so valuable for people’s mental health. It is important that those artists also have remuneration into the future; they should be able to plan for their retirement. I therefore agree that there should be a cut-off clause for contracts.

The Bill should progress to Committee stage. There has been a lot of debate, and that is a reason for it to be considered in Committee. It is all very well saying the issue should go to the Competition and Markets Authority. It should have gone to that authority; this is clearly an oligopolistic abuse. There is a case, of course, for artists to form themselves into a co-operative situation. It would be good if there were alternative forms of retail, through a sort of “good” music brand, so that we could move forward.

This is a first step that we should not resist because we are bombarded by the vested interests of the massive labels, which make billions of pounds while our people, who we want to nurture, are not getting a fair deal. We do not want these springs of creativity to dry up, so we need to move forward now and, in parallel with that, we need to look at the market abuse. We must continue on an iterative basis to improve the lot of up-and-coming and existing people in this great music industry of ours, hold our head up high and get back to the global No. 1 in the charts.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

The Minister has indicated that he would like to make a contribution at this moment in time, but don’t worry—the debate then can continue after the Minister.