Welfare Reform and Work Bill

Helen Goodman Excerpts

Tuesday 27th October 2015 Commons Chamber

[Debbie Abrahams]

Yes, it is right to acknowledge the Government’s role in bringing in the Disability Discrimination Act 1995, but this Bill flies in the face of that legacy. I really hope that by the end of today, the Government will be able to provide some reassurance, because to date there has simply been none for disabled people.

In Committee, the Minister said that these cuts would not affect people currently on the ESA WRAG, but does that mean that people diagnosed with progressive conditions, but assessed after the Bill is enacted, will be deemed to have a different form of the progressive condition? Will they require less support, or do the Government finally accept that, apart from being dehumanising and exacerbating people’s health conditions, the work capability assessment is not fit for purpose and needs a complete overhaul so that people with progressive conditions are not placed in the ESA WRAG? I would really appreciate some clarity on that point.

Surely if the Government were serious about supporting disabled people into work, there would be measures in place to support into work those disabled people who are able to work. How many employers will be engaged? Although the Disability Confident scheme is a good first step, only 68 employers are currently active in it, and they will certainly not be able to support the 1.3 million disabled people who are able to and want to work. Do the Government intend to extend Access to Work beyond the 35,000 disabled people it helped stay in work or into a new job last year? What is going to happen about the appalling ratio of one disability employment adviser for 600 disabled people? [Interruption.] What estimates are there of the impact on the employment of disabled people of this measure and the reduction of the 30% disability employment gap?

[Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend has just said the most astounding thing I have heard in this Chamber for a very long time. There is one work adviser for 600 people. In the course of a year, I wonder whether each person would get some attention just once. Has there been any assessment of the absurdity and ineffectiveness of this situation, as contrasted, of course, with the marvellous suggestions we heard a short while ago from the hon. Member for Gloucester (Richard Graham)?

[Debbie Abrahams]

That figure was revealed through the work done when I sat on the Select Committee. Yes, it is shocking. Some are trying to say that this Bill is about encouraging people into work, but there are no measures in place to support it. Indeed, my next point is—where exactly is the “work” bit in this Welfare Reform and Work Bill? Here we are on Report, and these basic questions have still not been answered. All we know from the Government’s impact assessment is that by 2020-21, approximately £640 a year will have been cut from social security support for disabled people—on top of the £23.8 billion of support that has already been taken from them—and that £100 million a year will be provided in unspecified support to help them into work. That is a disgrace; disabled people deserve much better.

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[Debbie Abrahams]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his kind remarks. I understand that his wife has previously worked in a Jobcentre Plus office. To reiterate my response to the hon. Member for Beverley and Holderness (Graham Stuart), the whole point is that there is some evidence and that we need a better understanding, which is why we need an independent review.

[Helen Goodman]

If there is to be an independent review, does my hon. Friend agree that it should take evidence from the National Audit Office, which has stated that although the targets might not come from the Minister’s office, the performance management of the jobcentres amounts to targets, because what it measures does not take into account the numbers of people who are supposed to go back into work or the quality of advice they receive?

[Debbie Abrahams]

My hon. Friend makes a valid point. The Select Committee reported on the fact that there are targets for off-flow, which means getting people off the books. Those in themselves are targets. [Interruption.]

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and associated higher levels of childhood mental health problems.

[Helen Goodman]

Exactly. It is a long-term problem.

[Debbie Abrahams]

Absolutely.

Similarly, there are concerns about the impact of the benefit cap on disabled people, who already face extra costs associated with their disability, as I mentioned earlier. It is estimated that 150,000 adults and 395,000 children will be affected by the reduction in the cap. We believe that, in conjunction with the freeze in local housing allowance, cuts in social housing rents and a lack of affordable homes, the lower cap also risks exacerbating the housing crisis. The Government’s own impact assessment concedes that rent arrears, evictions and homelessness will increase as a result of the lower cap. We believe that further reductions in the benefit cap in London and elsewhere risk pushing tens of thousands of children, families and disabled people into poverty. We are the sixth wealthiest country in the world. It is not right that the Government are seeking to secure the recovery on the backs of the working poor, their children and disabled people. I hope they will think again.

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[Helen Goodman]

I am pleased to follow the hon. Member for Cannock Chase (Amanda Milling) and will begin where she left off: on the benefit cap. It is quite clear that, as she has described, the public take the view that there needs to be a certain reciprocity and that there is a certain fairness in limiting the amount that individual households can receive. The question is whether the amounts are set at the right level and whether the right benefits are included.

The impact assessment that the DWP initially produced when it introduced the benefit cap stated that the object of the policy was to get more people into work. That raises a question about how sensible it is to include carer’s allowance, since carers are already busy caring, and maternity benefits, since people claiming those will obviously have little babies to look after. The Government should think more carefully about those proposals.

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[Michelle Donelan (Chippenham) (Con)]

The hon. Lady mentioned six applications a week. Just to clarify: is that less than one application a day?

[Helen Goodman]

It depends what kind of job is being applied for and how long it takes. I do not know how many applications the hon. Lady made when she was unemployed. Obviously, if they are simple job applications, one can make more. My point was: the young man had made 27 and he was sanctioned. Does she think that a sign of somebody malingering or a sign that people in the jobcentre were playing games? I put it to her that it was not a straightforward way to treat this young man. It was not encouraging or supportive; it was demeaning and demoralising, and it should stop. Ministers should ensure that the sanctions rules are properly applied.

The big study on sanctions carried out by Glasgow University found that one person in four on JSA had been sanctioned. I am sorry, but I think there is the intention on the part of Ministers to massage down the JSA numbers. Of course, the number of people unemployed has fallen and employment has risen—everybody is pleased about that, and nobody wishes to deny it—but I think there is an attempt, through sanctions, to massage the JSA numbers and pretend that there is not an unemployment problem. When I went to the Bishop Auckland jobcentre, I was told that half the people claiming JSA there had been unemployed not for more than 12 months but for more than three years. This is a serious problem, but the Government are not addressing it in a serious way.

[Paul Scully]

The hon. Lady might make a stronger case if she were looking at the unemployment figures alone. The fact is, however, that we now have record levels of employment in this country. They are at their highest since the statistics first started to be recorded. Does she not agree that that shows a move from unemployment to employment?

[Helen Goodman]

The statistics are quite dubious, in a number of ways. Let us consider, for example, the number of people who have gone into self-employment because they have not been able to find proper jobs, and the extent of under-employment.

[Paul Scully]

As someone who has been self-employed for the best part of 20 years, I find that quite offensive. Is the hon. Lady seriously telling her constituents that self-employment is not a proper job?

[Helen Goodman]

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that self-employment has increased by 42%? How many of those newly self-employed people does he think are in sustainable small businesses? People come to my constituency surgeries who have become self-employed and are working as window cleaners. That is fine—of course everyone needs to get their windows cleaned—but there is a limit to how many window cleaners we need in society. If people are coming out of highly skilled jobs and going into very low-skilled ones—[Interruption.] Conservative Members can protest as much as they like, but when the Treasury Committee took evidence from representatives of the Bank of England, they told us that a lot of the increase in self-employment was not real employment and that it was a sign that people could not get the kind of employed jobs that they wanted. Professor Kristin Forbes said precisely that to the Committee. Conservative Members do not need to pretend that this is some kind of prejudice on my part. It certainly is not.

[Neil Coyle]

Much has been said about the current employment levels. Indeed, we heard earlier that there had been a miracle, no less. Is my hon. Friend aware that the percentage of working age disabled people in work has fallen over the past five years, in direct correlation to the reduction in the number of disability employment advisers and in the number of disabled people being supported by the Access to Work scheme?

[Helen Goodman]

I was not aware of that fact, and I am grateful to my hon. Friend for pointing it out.

On the employment numbers, I also want to point out that there are a lot of people on short-hours contracts. I am not talking about zero-hours contracts, which have now reached 750,000, as Conservative Members must know; I am talking about eight-hour and 12-hour contracts. They provide insecure employment and insufficient money for people to live on, and they make it very difficult to get other jobs. They are, however, recorded as employment. There is all the difference in the world between working 35 hours a week and working eight hours a week, and Conservative Members need to think about that before they start talking about miraculous employment figures.

[Emily Thornberry]

A snapshot of today’s jobs market would also reveal that 3 million people in this country identify as being underemployed. They are not working enough hours to be able to support their family.

[Helen Goodman]

My hon. Friend has expressed that beautifully.

I shall move on to the question of employment and support allowance. Again, hon. Members need to think about the overhang from the heavy industries and the impact that reductions in people’s income has on those individuals and on whole communities. I suppose this seems quite unusual to those representing a constituency whose casework consists of a lot of neighbour disputes and planning issues, and where only one person a week turns up with a benefits problem, but in a constituency like mine—a former mining constituency in an industrial area—the bulk of the casework is this sort of thing. The cuts Conservative Members are proposing to vote for tonight will have a devastating impact on the amount of money in the local economy, as well as being very unfair to people who are not going to be able to go back to work.

Finally, I want to make one observation on universal credit and lone parents. It is not reasonable to have the same conditionality for a lone parent with children under school age as for people in couples. The practicalities of looking after children are different for lone parents and for married couples. Ministers in the Parliament before last changed the rules so that the conditionality for lone parents was aligned to the tax credit system, and the period was 16 hours instead of 30 hours for people in couples. Ministers must help people balance their parenting responsibilities and their working responsibilities better.

[Jo Churchill]

I was fortunate enough to sit on the Public Bill Committee, and I also sit on the Women and Equalities Committee. That has shown me two things. I recently spoke to women in Oldham running a voluntary group, and the leader said to me she did not feel what we were doing was wrong, because she felt these measures helped marginalised minority women break out of the cycle of being kept in their homes, improved their English and helped them understand how their families interact with the wider world, asking women to find work and not rely on—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Natascha Engel)]

Order. The hon. Lady is making a speech, not an intervention, so I ask her to resume her seat.

[Helen Goodman]

People can take different views on this matter, and I have just been describing the view I take with respect to lone parents.

I want to make one final point. Conservative Members have repeatedly said that the Opposition have no proposals for savings and they are the only ones who are concerned about the deficit. The Opposition voted against the inheritance tax cuts, which will benefit the richest 60,000 households, and we went into the last general election with a proposal to cut the winter fuel allowance for wealthy pensioners. Personally, I think that would be a better thing to do than hit disabled people once again.

[Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con)]

I am going to speak extremely briefly to amendment 29 in my name and that of my hon. Friend the Member for Stevenage (Stephen McPartland), which asks the Government to look again at withdrawing the full amount of the WRAG component, which affects approximately 492,000 people. Let me briefly explain the reasons.

First, as the hon. Member for Banff and Buchan (Dr Whiteford) mentioned earlier, many in the WRAG are in that group for a long period—two years or more, compared with six months on average for jobseeker’s allowance, for instance. As she said, it is extremely difficult to exist on these levels of income for long periods, whereas it might be possible for a few weeks or even a few months for those with other kinds of support. It is therefore important that we look at the length of time.

Secondly, the costs for people in this group are often higher. It has been said to me that the personal independence payment will compensate. It will not compensate for all those costs; for instance, heating is not part of PIP, nor are the special diets people may have, although caring and mobility are part of PIP, of course.

Thirdly, there is the question of the incentive. Because the support group has a component of £36.20 a week at present as opposed to the WRAG of £29.05 a week, which it is proposed to take away, there will be the incentive and a tendency for people to be put into the support group rather than the WRAG. Surely the whole point is to bring people into the WRAG so that they can be given support to come back into work. For instance, 30% of people with Parkinson’s are wrongly placed in the WRAG. This means that instead of receiving the £29.05 component a week, they will receive nothing in future. I have seen instances of people placed in the wrong group in my constituency.

We are talking about a benefit where sanctions are wrongly applied in a number of cases, as has been mentioned in the debate. I need to be very brief and I apologise for not making my points in more detail, but I want others to come in. I ask the Minister to come back on this—

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[Victoria Atkins]

No, I will not give way, because I wish to develop this point. The ripple effect of the national living wage includes commitments by at least two employers in Louth and Horncastle—I am talking here about Morrisons and Sainsbury’s, but there may be many more that have not yet declared their intentions—to raise their lowest wages to more than the first stage of the national living wage, which will take effect in April.

[Helen Goodman]

rose—

[Victoria Atkins]

I will not give way, thank you.

The point is that the policy is part of a package, and the principle behind it is to make work pay. The criticisms that we are hearing from Opposition Members highlight how different our approaches are. We want to create a culture of employment. We believe in work and in all of the benefits that work brings to people.

Our responsibility as a Government is to make work pay, but we cannot do that if the system means that some people are better off out of work than in work. That does not make economic sense. We know that, since the cap was introduced, at least 16,000 capped households have moved into work. That is a good thing for those households. We know that those people who are now working are spending their money in the local economy. A strong local economy pays for the things that we care about—hospitals, teachers, the armed services and so on.

As we saw on the Bill Committee, what counts is not just the pay packet, but what it brings to people’s lives in terms of life chances, the positive benefits that it has for children in a working household and the examples it sets for those children. Those are all factors that are part of this package that some Members seem keen to avoid.

We know that households subject to the current cap are 41% more likely to get into work than uncapped households. I join my hon. Friend the Member for Weaver Vale (Graham Evans) in congratulating the Government on making the commitment that the money saved through this measure will be used to help fund more apprenticeships. It is about getting people into work and into training. We should celebrate, not criticise, the fact that unemployment and the number of out-of-work claimants is at its lowest level since 2010. The fact that we have these very low claimant rates, these measures and this determination to make work pay is something to be supported and not chipped away at.