Helen Hayes
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Ms Julie Minns (Carlisle) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship this afternoon, Mr Efford. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Peterborough (Andrew Pakes) for securing this excellent debate.
I begin by paying tribute to Kitty Wilkinson, the woman to whom we owe a debt of thanks for giving us modern public baths. In 1842, thanks to her determined advocacy, Liverpool opened the first combined public washhouse and baths in the United Kingdom since Roman times. Crucially, she inspired national interest and, just a few years later, Parliament passed the Baths and Washhouses Act 1846, which empowered local authorities across Britain to build public bathing and laundry facilities.
However, as we discuss the impact of public baths, we should remember that they were never conceived as leisure facilities, but as tools to improve the health of working people. Indeed, the 1846 Act does not mention swimming at all.
Carlisle’s public baths opened in 1884, funded by the proceeds of the municipal gasworks. However, the funds did not stretch to including Turkish baths, which had become popular—again, not as leisure facilities—thanks to the work of Richard Barter and David Urquhart, a doctor and a diplomat who extolled the therapeutic benefits of hot and cold treatments and drove the expansion of Turkish baths across the UK during the 19th century. Turkish baths catered for the working man, for it was men who were in the factories at the time. After a long shift in the mills and factories, they could be cleaned and cleansed, inside and out, by a Turkish bath.
Carlisle’s Turkish baths were finally added in 1909. Sadly, the relocation of the main swimming pools in 2022 forced the closure of not simply the Turkish baths, but a community facility used by a loyal group of regulars—Barry, Iain, David, Richard and Keith, to name but a few—who knew of the baths’ physical and mental health benefits.
On one visit just before its closure, I spoke with a young man who explained that, as a recovering alcoholic, his weekends were lonely because he could no longer go to the pub, but a couple of hours in the baths had been filled with the conversation he missed. Another said that the baths had kept him together after he and his wife separated, and another spoke of how they alleviated his asthma. Barry, a regular of more than 50 years, would often say that he could name half a dozen men who had not needed mental health treatment because the baths provided a space to unwind and talk.
It has been three years since the closure of Carlisle’s Turkish baths, but the campaign and the charity that I started continue the work to secure a community asset transfer from Cumberland council and reopen them as an expanded centre for health and wellbeing. I pay tribute to Steve Yeates—
Helen Hayes (Dulwich and West Norwood) (Lab)
My hon. Friend is making a heartfelt and moving speech in support of somebody who was clearly very dear to her, for which I commend her. I hope I have given her a little breathing space.
Ms Minns
My hon. Friend has, and I appreciate it.
Steve Yeates was the secretary of Friends of Carlisle Turkish Baths, and he sadly passed away last year. I also thank the Architectural Heritage Fund for the advice and financial support that have enabled the group to evidence the viability of its vision, which will include a community laundry because, as Kitty Wilkinson knew, baths are a community facility that supports public health, and they are open to all.
I conclude by inviting the Minister to visit Carlisle, to endorse the work of the friends group and to back its vision of reopening the north-west’s last Victorian Turkish baths.
Helen Hayes (Dulwich and West Norwood) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Mr Efford. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Peterborough (Andrew Pakes) for securing this fantastic debate about lidos.
I am proud that my constituency is home to Brockwell lido in the magnificent setting of Brockwell Park. Brockwell lido is an unheated outdoor swimming pool that opened in 1937, and it is grade II listed. It is a very special place. Crowned Britain’s best outdoor pool by the AA in 2025, it is known locally as Brixton beach. It is a place where generations of children have learned to swim and enjoyed the freedom of a summer by the pool. It is where many local residents enjoy the ritual of year-round swimming and a range of activities, including gym, fitness, yoga, and a truly wonderful programme of inclusive children’s activities run by the brilliant Whippersnappers.
Brockwell lido is firmly at the heart of our community, and it has a special place in my life too. I have swum there regularly since 1996. In 2024, after many years of trying to summon the courage, I—pardon the pun—dipped my toe in the water of cold-water swimming, continuing my weekly swim into the autumn months. I very much enjoyed the experience until the Sunday before Christmas, when the water temperature was a balmy 8°. I fainted in the changing room afterwards. I am grateful to the kind women who found me and helped me to recover my pride and dignity, as much as my consciousness; I am now not quite a year-round swimmer at Brockwell lido.
Throughout Brockwell lido’s history, however, it has faced precarious times. It was closed for a period in 1990 and opened again after a vigorous campaign by the Brockwell Lido Users group. I pay tribute to BLU, which played such an active role in advocating for lido users and for the protection and maintenance of Brockwell lido. In 2023, when the lido needed major investment to be able to continue, BLU was involved in the choosing of a new operator, Fusion Lifestyle, which secured the investment needed at the time and ran the lido well for the first few years through good collaboration with BLU, Whippersnappers and Lambeth council.
In recent years, however, following a change in the leadership of Fusion Lifestyle and some of the challenges faced by the leisure industry as a result of the pandemic, there has been increasing concern about the quality of the facilities and the lack of investment and maintenance at Brockwell lido. Right now, Brockwell lido is facing a new risk, as it is understood that Fusion Lifestyle faces grave financial difficulties and may no longer be in a position to continue to operate the lido.
On Sunday, I attended a meeting of more than 200 local residents, who came together with Lambeth councillors and members of the BLU committee to talk about the future of Brockwell lido. Were any confirmation needed as to how loved and valued Brockwell lido is by local residents in our community, that meeting was it. I am pleased that Lambeth council agreed to step in if needed to ensure that Brockwell lido stays open, but the anxiety in recent weeks poses a number of questions about protections for our lidos, and whether sufficient protection is afforded to them given their great value to our communities.
We know, for example, that Brockwell lido is a profitable site, but there has been little transparency about, and no ringfencing of, the funding that the lido brings in, such that it is spent on the maintenance and investment that is needed for the lido. The process is under way for designating Brockwell lido an asset of community value, but I wonder whether such a designation should be automatic for facilities that are always going to be assets of community value. There is no guaranteed role for users of our lidos in their governance, despite the fact that the users are so often the custodians of such valuable and important places. Finally, in the event of insolvency or administration, there is no obligation on an operator to co-operate with, or to hand the facility back to, the council so that it can continue to operate for the public benefit.
We love Brockwell lido and, as a community, we will work to ensure that it has a sustainable, viable and long-term future, but without doubt, having had this experience, we are learning about possible additional protections. I hope that the Minister will have some response to such concerns.