Oral Answers to Questions

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd April 2019 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

First, I thank my hon. Friend for the support she has shown for the Government’s deal and for the encouragement she is giving to others to support that deal. I want to see that we are able to deliver for her constituents and for others across the country and that we, as I say, deliver Brexit, and do it as soon as possible. In delivering Brexit, we need to ensure that we are delivering on the result of the referendum. That is what I said yesterday, and that is what we will be looking to do.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Q10. The Prime Minister stated last night that she will meet the Leader of the Opposition. Can she indicate for the benefit of my party, the Democratic Unionist party, but also for all Members of this House, which of the Leader of the Opposition’s Brexit policies she thinks she could accept?

[The Prime Minister]

I am going to be in discussion with the Leader of the Opposition, but as I indicated earlier, I think the Leader of the Opposition and I both want to deliver leaving the EU and to deliver that with a deal. I think we both agree that the withdrawal agreement is a part of any deal. I think we both agree that we want to protect jobs and ensure high standards of workers’ rights. I think there are a number of areas on which we agree; the question is, can we come to an agreement that we can both support that would command the support of this House? That is what the talks will be about.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 27th March 2019 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend references leaving on WTO terms. Of course, what I want—what I think is right and what the Government consider right for the United Kingdom—is for us to be able to negotiate trade agreements with countries around the world that give us a better operation with those countries, rather than just the WTO basis. But I also want us to be able to negotiate a good trade deal with the European Union. We want a good trade deal with our nearest trading neighbours, and opportunities for good free trade agreements around the rest of the world.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Q15. I have a very important question for the Prime Minister. There are 1,152 people living with dementia in my constituency alone. With the cost of dementia to society across the whole United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland predicted to be £30 billion by 2021, what commitment can she make to increase dementia research into new avenues of discovery that could lead to a cure or treatment? Will she commit the Government to allocating just 1% of the societal cost of dementia towards research annually?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman raises a very important issue. He mentioned the number of his constituents who are living with dementia. Across all our constituencies, there are increasing numbers of people living with the condition. That is why we have committed to delivering our dementia 2020 challenge in full. The challenge supports research into dementia, which he specifically mentioned. The UK research community is playing a significant role in the global effort to find a cure or a major disease-modifying treatment by 2025. We have committed to double spending on dementia research by 2020—the equivalent of around £60 million per annum—and we are on track to meet that commitment. As he referenced, much of this investment is for research to better understand the nature of dementia, to inform the development of future treatments and to find ways to prevent the onset of the condition. Preventing the condition is of course the best route to take. Meanwhile, we look to provide better treatment for those with the condition.

European Council

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Monday 25th March 2019 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

In a previous question to the Prime Minister, I stated clearly that Northern Ireland would never be the sacrifice for the withdrawal agreement. I felt the sacrifice then, as I feel it now, and I refuse to play that role. Does she understand our determination to be treated as an integral part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland? The failure to deliver the legally binding assurances and the time-limited backstop continues to be the stumbling block and obstacle and we must not—and we will not, Prime Minister—be treated differently from the rest of the United Kingdom.

[The Prime Minister]

We have, of course, been working with the hon. Gentleman and his colleagues to look at the ways in which we can ensure that there is that commitment to the people of Northern Ireland that there will not be that different treatment. We were very clear with the European Union on the need to have a UK-wide customs territory in the backstop, not Northern Ireland-only customs territory. We continue to maintain our commitment to ensure that Northern Ireland is treated as an integral part of the United Kingdom.

Interserve

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Monday 18th March 2019 Commons Chamber

[Oliver Dowden]

As I have said repeatedly from this Dispatch Box, the Government undertake appropriate contingency planning in respect of all our strategic suppliers. We have not had to invoke that contingency with Interserve because the companies delivering those services remain wholly unchanged; no jobs are lost, no pensions are affected and no services are disrupted.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

When Carillion went down, lots of jobs were lost and projects were put on hold, and confidence was badly dented. At that time, we were informed that steps were being taken to ensure that the situation would not happen again. Only a matter of months later, Interserve has experienced difficulties, and yet again the general public are losing confidence. It seems that outsourcing has become a gamble. Could the Minister outline steps to restore confidence? Is he satisfied that Interserve’s financial position has been secured, and what discussions have taken place with other companies to check and monitor that no other big companies are facing major financial problems?

Exiting the European Union

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Monday 11th March 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

I do not think that any Minister is shy about coming before the House. The Attorney General is doing his job, which is to look at the texts that have been negotiated during the course of this evening and form a view on them.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster will know the story of the emperor’s new clothes. We hope that tomorrow morning the emperor’s clothes will not reveal something embarrassing for the right hon. Gentleman and the Prime Minister. The Irish Cabinet met tonight and will meet again after the EU Brussels summit. Have the Republic of Ireland and the EU agreed to a legally binding, time-limited backstop? We need to ask for a definition of “legally binding”. Who has the Prime Minister met who has that power, without ratification?

[Mr Lidington]

It is clearly for the Irish Government to make any statement about their view on what has been agreed. However, my understanding is that the documents have been agreed by the Prime Minister and President Juncker, acting as the head of the Commission, the appointed negotiator for the 27 member states.

Leaving the EU

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 12th February 2019 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Nobody wants to use the backstop. The reason the backstop is there is that it is the guarantee that there will be no hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland in the circumstances in which the future relationship has not come into place at the end of the implementation period. There is an alternative available within the withdrawal agreement, which is a further extension of the implementation period. There are pros and cons in both of those positions. Of course we want to see change to the backstop, but there are issues around the fact that in the implementation period there would almost certainly be a request for money, which does not occur in relation to the backstop. It is there as a guarantee. It is like an insurance policy: you take it out, but you never want to have to use it.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

A recent national opinion poll in Northern Ireland showed that 60% of those polled were clearly against the backstop—a majority of opinion. Is the EU policy on the backstop like that great Eagles song, “Hotel California”: you can check out anytime you like, but you cannot leave? Will the Prime Minister give an assurance to Unionists in Northern Ireland that there can be no progress unless the backstop is removed or is time-limited?

Election Law Reform

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Monday 11th February 2019 Commons Chamber

[Craig Mackinlay (South Thanet) (Con)]

I am pleased to be afforded the Floor of the House for this Adjournment debate on the reform of election law. Many might ask, “What does it matter?” Naysayers might say that this is a debate in defence of ourselves. Well, perhaps, but this is serious. Our election law is a mess, leaving candidates and agents exposed as never before to the real risk of criminal prosecution, so this cannot wait—it needs solving now.

Election law is important, as it defines the type of democratic institutions that we have. The playing field must be fair and equal, and seen to be so, and the results of elections need to be respected as just and fair. That must be encapsulated in our election law.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way before he gets into the thrust of his contribution. I asked his permission to intervene beforehand.

In Northern Ireland we have made many, many changes to electoral law, particularly for stricter controls on registration and identification. That is not the subject of this debate, but does the hon. Gentleman agree on the need for voter ID in the mainland? We have done it in Northern Ireland, and it has done away with a lot of discrepancies in voting. That may be a separate issue but, none the less, does he agree it is important?

[Craig Mackinlay]

I thank the hon. Gentleman. He raises a wider debate about voter registration, and I would not object to its application on the mainland. I see nothing wrong with every single voter having a unique identifying code so that people cannot vote in two places, for instance. I would welcome moves towards that.

Through no design of mine, and for obvious reasons, I have come over the past two years to know, rather too closely, the intricacies of election law. I do not intend my contribution to descend into a personal rant against the Electoral Commission, the Crown Prosecution Service and Kent police, which led me to a three-month trial and subsequent acquittal, but I hope some good can come from my experiences by being a catalyst for the reform of election law, which was recently described by a retired professor of election law, Bob Watt, as a “compost heap”.

We have two key statutes: the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000, often referred to as the PPERA; and the Representation of the People Act 1983, often called the RPA. The PPERA was enacted to reflect the reality of modern politics, and it created the Electoral Commission, a statutory body with powers over election processes and guidance setting for candidates, agents, political parties and, importantly, local authority electoral staff.

The Electoral Commission has a budget of £17 million and employs 134 staff. It oversees and controls national party spending, donations and reporting and the regulation of third-party campaigners, among other things. Members may not be aware that it is from the PPERA that ballot papers have thereafter had the candidate’s name and the logo of the national political party for whom they are standing. That was a recognition of the reality that the electorate vote for political parties. Few of us in this House would be so bold as to claim that the electorate vote for us solely as individuals—if only that were true; they vote in larger part for the party messages, for the perceptions they have of party leaders and for the national party manifestos. This legislation set spending limits of close to £20 million for registered political parties to spend across the UK in the regulated period of a year prior to a planned and forecast election as envisaged by the Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011.

We then have the law that is more relevant to us. It is relevant to candidates and agents across elections, no matter what their type, be they parliamentary, Assembly Member, council, mayoral or police and crime commissioner elections. I refer to the Representation of the People Act 1983, which is the legislation I would like to focus upon this evening. I wish to focus on two small sections—sections 90C and 90ZA. It was on the construction and interpretation of these two sections that the entire case against me was founded, and it is from these things that we need to learn and change. In broad terms, the 1983 Act governs candidates’ returns, spending limits, timings, agents’ and candidates’ responsibilities, and, importantly, various offences, notably against those not authorised to spend money on a campaign. There is a clear prohibition in section 75 of the Act, with punitive criminal sanctions against those who spend without the authority of the election agent.

Those small sections are detailed and they are often not understood, so I will advance to the House what they mean. Section 90ZA explains the common meaning of “election expenses”. Subsection (4) outlines the concept of “incurred and authorisation”, and this accords to the long-held view that election expenses can be so only if incurred or authorised by a candidate or agent. This interpretation, relied on by all political parties, has roots going back to 1868 legislation in another form. If not authorised, an offence can be committed by the person incurring expenses under section 75 of the Act. This seemingly clear interpretation was to prevent those who might want to interfere with an election from doing so—or else face criminal proceedings. It also provided candidates and agents with the power to control what is spent on the campaign they are legally responsible for.

Section 90C explains what to do if goods, services or facilities are provided free or at a discount, for instance, where a friendly printer provides printed material, perhaps as a party supporter. It is clear and people fully understood what it was there for; the concept was simple. The section dictates that the item, service or facility given free or at an undervalue should form part of the election expense return at a proper market value rate, subject to some simple de minimis rules.

My case passed through a long trail of court interpretations before criminal trial. At an early application to dismiss, which was rejected, we argued that the normal interpretation of section 90C—the discount or free provision—could apply towards a candidate’s election expenses only if such a good, service or facility had been properly authorised in the first place by the candidate or agent under the normal authorising provisions of section 90ZA. It has long been the understanding of colleagues in this House and experienced election law Queen’s counsel, some of whom write the textbook on election law, that the rules always intended that agents were responsible for the finances of election campaigns. Candidates will be focused on meeting electors and winning votes during the campaign period—we will all be familiar with that. The law intended agents to be involved in all the spending decisions in a campaign, either by spending themselves or permitting someone else to spend on their behalf. They, or the candidate, are meant to authorise any spending on the campaign, so that all expenditure goes through them. As a result, the agent is then liable to produce a full, “true” return of all this spending and be responsible for keeping within the legal spending limits.

The Act also takes steps to try to ensure that others are dissuaded from spending on an election campaign without this authorisation from the agent or candidate. Section 73(6) and section 75 provide for offences for people who make payments for the campaign or who spend on campaigning without the agent’s express permission. Anyone spending or making such payments without authorisation—written authorisation should be the norm—risks committing an offence. If others are willing to take the risk of committing an offence by spending or paying expenses without authorisation from the agent, that would be a criminal matter for them. This does not mean there is a free pass for people to flout spending limits by simply refusing to give authorisation for spending which others decide to incur anyway. So it is clear that the baton of the risk of illegal activity passes from the agent or candidate to the individual deciding to incur the unauthorised expense. We all have some strong and great supporters in our constituencies who are keen to help, but I expect that none would flout the wishes of the candidate and agent and decide to place themselves in jeopardy. Then there is a deterrent to third parties incurring expenses without authorisation.

The judge in an early part of my ordeal did not agree with this long-held interpretation and interpreted that the legislation should mean that anything used to the benefit of a candidate or to denigrate their opponent, used either by the candidate or, more worryingly, simply “on their behalf”, should be included in a candidate spending return, regardless of whether it was authorised or not. This was appealed to the Court of Appeal, in front of the Lord Chief Justice. That appeal was successful and the normal ground was seemingly restored.

The Crown Prosecution Service, with the Electoral Commission attaching itself as an interested party, appealed the Appeal Court decision to the Supreme Court. That appeal was heard on 23 May 2018, with judgment given on 25 July last year. In summary, that decision overturned the Appeal Court decision and has to stand as the ultimate authority on the interpretation of sections 90C and 90ZA of the 1983 Act.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chloe Smith]

I would like to be able to do so, but I am not in a position to do so. My hon. Friends in the Whips Office will have heard that request, and they may in turn be able to advise me about what may be manageable in the forthcoming parliamentary business. However, I intend to continue considering the matter carefully, as I hope that I have outlined, because we need a better understanding of a few related complexities. For example, were we to make the change, how would we avoid the possibility of further abuses being committed between categories? Proper consideration needs to be given to such a change and to which power could be used to do that, as I said earlier. I give the House a commitment that I will continue to consider those important aspects with Cabinet Office officials.

[Jim Shannon]

On that point, I think that the thrust of what hon. Members have put forward tonight is the need for clarification. They also referred to the upcoming council elections in May. Many of us are seeking that clarification before May, so can the Minister give some indication of what will happen?

[Chloe Smith]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention and, indeed, for his earlier expression of support for improving the integrity of all elections through the use of voter ID at polling stations. I have set out tonight a number of the tools being used to try to give that clarity: the guidance from the Electoral Commission, the work on the codes and the question of legislative reform. As he will have just heard, I am unable to commit to a clear date for legislative reform tonight, because our considerations need to continue, but I hope that some elements of the existing guidance may still be helpful to all candidates and agents, not just those of us in this Chamber, in the upcoming local elections.

Let me come to a conclusion. It is also important that we have cross-party consensus on any legislative options, because these matters, which apply to our entire democratic framework, ought to be above mere party politics. We would require that consensus before we could proceed with a legislative option. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for South Thanet again for raising this important matter. As he and I have set out, these rules exist for a good reason: they create a level playing field by ensuring that all associated candidate and party costs are accounted for within electoral spending limits, and they prevent the misuse of electoral spending. The Government will continue to work with the regulator to ensure that there is clear guidance on electoral spending, including through the codes of practice to which I referred. We will continue to consider the implications of the Supreme Court judgment, with a view to protecting those important principles that underpin our democratic framework, which include fairness to candidates and agents and of course the concept of a level playing field, which has been well articulated tonight.

Question put and agreed to.

Leaving the European Union

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Monday 21st January 2019 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I believe that we can lead the way around the world on these issues, but to do that, we have to leave the European Union with a good deal and then have the freedom to set very high standards.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Prime Minister for her statement and for her endeavours. A poll in Northern Ireland just last week shows that 70% of Unionists are against another vote on leaving the EU. Some 71% of Unionists want Brexit and 66% are against the withdrawal agreement, which was so heavily defeated in this House just last week. Will the Prime Minister confirm that she will not ignore the opinion of Unionists, that the backstop will have to be removed, and that Northern Ireland will continue to be an integral part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, on the same basis as England, Wales and Scotland?

[The Prime Minister]

Obviously it is my position and the Government’s position that Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom, and we want Northern Ireland to continue to be able to be that integral part of the United Kingdom. It is right that we deliver on the vote to leave the European Union. The backstop has been identified as a key issue and we will continue to work with the hon. Gentleman and his right hon. and hon. Friends, and with others across this House who have raised this issue, to find a way through that enables us to secure a deal.

Leaving the EU

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Monday 14th January 2019 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Any agreement will contain those elements, and we have those elements in the deal before us. The suggestion that all we need to do is somehow take longer and longer is not right, and the British people would turn around and say, “Three years on, we need to leave.”

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

In December 2017, in response to a question from me, the Prime Minister said that Northern Ireland would never be treated differently in relation to the single market and the customs union. I welcomed that reply—and today the Prime Minister has referred to herself as a “proud Unionist”—but the withdrawal agreement has changed it and Northern Ireland will be treated very differently from the rest of the United Kingdom. The Unionism that the Prime Minister is putting forward has been weakened. Will she reiterate the Unionism of December 2017 and not her watered down and false version of January 2019?

[The Prime Minister]

As the hon. Gentleman will have noted, we published a document last week in relation to Northern Ireland that confirms the commitments we have given on one of the issues of concern that he and his hon. and right hon. Friends have raised about the potential differences in regulation between Northern Ireland and Great Britain. We are clear about the commitments we would give in relation to that situation, such that we do not see that difference occurring should the backstop be put in place. I believe firmly in the Union of the United Kingdom, and I want to do everything to ensure that we maintain the Union of the United Kingdom. There are of course already some differences in the treatment of Northern Ireland in relation to some laws, and some of those differences are significant in the areas in which they operate, but we have given a commitment to ensuring we do not have that divergence in future.

European Council

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Monday 17th December 2018 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I agree that it is important that, when it comes to the vote, Members from across this whole House should put the interests of this country first—the interests of delivering on the referendum and doing it in a way that does protect jobs and our security, which is exactly what this deal does.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Prime Minister, some of your junior Ministers—those on the payroll—have told other MPs that the backstop cannot be changed and that, if it were to be changed, Leo Varadkar would lose the Republic of Ireland election. We do need to have good relations with the Republic of Ireland, but, Prime Minister, you are the Prime Minister and all your responsibilities lie with the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Will the Prime Minister remind the members of her payroll team that Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom and that there is no onus on any Member, or junior Minister, to be a cheerleader for the Taoiseach?

[The Prime Minister]

The reasons why we have negotiated what we have and why, as a Government, we are committed to Northern Ireland and to not having a hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland have nothing to do with the views of the Taoiseach or of the Government of the Republic of Ireland. It is about the commitment that we believe that we should be giving to the people of Northern Ireland.