Baroness Thatcher's Legacy

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd September 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Amess]

I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. I paid tribute to him when he was appointed as Margaret’s Parliamentary Private Secretary. If only he had been her Parliamentary Private Secretary a little earlier, she would never have lost by four votes, but that is probably rewriting history. I absolutely agree about how Margaret’s legacy has been completely misrepresented.

Contrary to left-wing opinion, Britain’s manufacturing production rose by 7.5% during Baroness Thatcher’s time as Prime Minister. In short, because of policies such as the right to buy, share ownership, privatisation, tax cuts and fewer days lost to strikes, Baroness Thatcher was able to bring Britain back from the brink and build a stronger economy.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I spoke to the hon. Gentleman beforehand, and he knows what I am going to say. Baroness Thatcher’s legacy is threefold for us in Northern Ireland. First, although we Unionists were not happy with the Belfast agreement, she recognised that in her memoirs and said so accordingly, and we appreciate and understand that. Secondly, she took on the hunger strikers and beat them, and broke the back of the IRA at that time as well. Thirdly, she said:

“Ulster is as British as Finchley.”

That is the legacy that we have in Northern Ireland—the United Kingdom is more unified than ever before, and Northern Ireland is an integral part of that as never before—and that is a legacy well worth holding on to.

[Mr Amess]

I have always regarded the hon. Gentleman as my hon. Friend. I thank him for making that point. The only upsetting thing that I can recall was one moment during Prime Minister’s Question Time when there was a very unfortunate exchange about Northern Ireland between Enoch Powell and Margaret. But that is all history now, and it is very good that the hon. Gentleman has paid tribute to Margaret’s legacy, as demonstrated in how Ireland is today.

We should not forget anything that Margaret did for education. We know the unfortunate slogan, but how many people realise that Margaret created more comprehensive schools than any Education Secretary before or after her? Some Members might say, “We don’t support that,” but I am simply saying that, again, she was misrepresented. As Prime Minister, she offered schools a chance to come out of direct council control—a policy that is successful and popular to this day. She implemented a core curriculum, with a national standard that every school had to attain. She focused the curriculum on the essentials: maths, English and the sciences. The current Secretary of State for Education certainly applauds Margaret’s policies. Parents were given more power in how schools were administered. The Government designed policies around serving children and parents. Her policy victories in this area and more widely are no small feat, but let us look now at some of her tangible legacies, because at the moment, these are just words.

Margaret Thatcher’s tangible legacies are found where I was born: the east end of London. She, through her dynamism, absolutely changed the docklands, which everyone enjoys now, and as we particularly did during last year’s Olympic games. The Daily Telegraph recently ran a story asking, “Will Canary Wharf be Baroness Thatcher’s greatest lasting legacy?” I know that it will be one of them. After designating the London docklands as an enterprise zone and offering tax breaks to local businesses, the then Prime Minister phoned Paul Reichmann to kick-start the project and persuaded him, as only she could, to take on the project. None of this could have happened without the lifting of exchange controls, which Baroness Thatcher did when she was first elected. Finance from abroad poured into London, and it became the most prominent city in the world. The regeneration of a huge area took place over the next few decades, and east London is now entirely unrecognisable from how it was my childhood. The docklands light railway was part of this legacy—a line that has assisted greatly in the quite stunning transformation of east London.

Margaret Thatcher was always described as being anti-Europe. For 100 years, people had talked about the channel tunnel, but did it happen? Absolutely not, but Margaret Thatcher was responsible for driving that grand infrastructure project. I was then Michael Portillo’s Parliamentary Private Secretary, and we walked together down the channel tunnel as it was being bored—absolutely extraordinary—and although we take it for granted today, it was entirely due to Margaret Thatcher. I well remember when she met then President Mitterrand halfway down the tunnel.

The previous project had been started in 1974 but it had to be abandoned because of the financial pressure that built up during the old, broken consensus. It took a more innovative approach and Mrs Thatcher asked private companies to tender for contracts in 1981. Just nine years later, the tunnel was built. It was part of her wider vision to build up Britain again and to revitalise our economy. Even the roots of Crossrail, which we can all see with our own eyes, can be found in Margaret’s time. As a former director of UK Contractors Group remembers, “she really pushed” Crossrail forward.

This project also gives us an insight into the outward-looking nature of Mrs Thatcher’s leadership. It was a leadership which did not just look to Britain’s shores, but looked to change the world. My goodness, what an international leader Baroness Thatcher was! She showed a remarkable aptitude for the international political stage. Unlike some leaders who are no longer in the House, she was far from being a warmonger. She used to do everything she possibly could to avoid war and broker peace. It was only when the Falklands were invaded that she had to defend those isles. I struggle to put it better than Niall Ferguson, who wrote:

“She was also mostly right about foreign policy. She was right to drive the forces of Argentina’s junta out of the Falklands and she was right to exhort a ‘wobbly’ George H. W. Bush to mete out the same treatment to Saddam Hussein’s forces in Kuwait. . . Like Ronald Reagan, she was quick to see the opportunity offered by”

Mikhail Gorbachev’s

“policies of glasnost and perestroika.”

Mrs Thatcher was right about Europe, supporting the idea of free and fair trade while opposing the idea of a unified currency. Europe was still divided between east and west when she was first elected and, as we know, it was the Soviet press that nicknamed her the “Iron Lady”. She was strong when necessary, but she was conciliatory too. When I had the privilege to meet Mikhail Gorbachev when he came to this place, he looked at me and said, “David, you are young to be a Member of Parliament.” I said to him, “Well, you’re very young to be the Soviet leader.” But what a different type of leader he was to some who have followed him. When Margaret, Ronald and Mikhail were working together, my goodness, they made a huge difference. It was as a result of Margaret’s policy that the Berlin wall was eventually taken down.

I was delighted to see that a council in Poland is trying to re-name a roundabout after Margaret, as roundabouts, as far as I am concerned, ensure that U-turns are redundant. Margaret is a hugely popular figure in Poland today. Her visit in 1988 is well remembered, establishing an alternative option for government in the minds of the Polish people. She had the presence to change a nation’s mind in one visit. I am not surprised that President Reagan was in awe of this remarkable woman. Not content with defeating socialism at home—although sadly, as a result of that, she gave us Tony Blair—together with President Reagan she vanquished the forces of communism across Europe, and there are many millions of people who rightly revere her name for bringing about freedom, democracy and commercial opportunity in eastern Europe.

I suppose that one of the only things I will ever be remembered for is the 1992 election, although for me privately, when I won the first time in 1983, that was my greatest moment. I was under the cosh, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Rayleigh and Wickford will attest, as he ran the campaign team in his remarkable way. Every single journalist, not only local and national but international, descended on Basildon because they had been told by my enemies that Barclays bank tellers were to be brought in to do the count, it would be done within an hour, and they would see live on TV the first Conservative to lose their seat.

Who came to my rescue? Margaret Thatcher. Just three days before the general election she arrived, as always, magnificently dressed in blue, and she was given a heroine’s welcome.

I owe her everything, and that was particularly true in 1992.

I will not dwell on what happened when she stood down as Prime Minister; I think it is best to draw a line under that. I will just say to my Conservative colleagues in the Chamber that we should never air our dirty linen in public. The greatest leader I have even known should certainly have been treated differently. Considering that I represented a highly marginal seat, I had nothing to gain and everything to lose.

I want to allow time for my hon. Friend the Minister, whose father, Lord Hurd of Westwell, was of course Margaret’s Foreign Secretary at the end, so I will bring my remarks to a close. I can find no finer words than my own, in “Margaret Thatcher: A Tribute in Words and Pictures”, compiled by Iain Dale. Apparently, I said:

“Margaret Thatcher was the consummate politician. She had those unique qualities of charisma, enormous courage and determination. She was blessed with first-class skills of leadership and undoubtedly not only changed this country but the world for the better.”

Margaret Thatcher was a remarkable Prime Minister and an inspiration to any young women today, proving that women can do not only an equal job to us men, but—this is certainly the experience in my household—a far superior job. It is difficult to believe that the same Prime Minister who revitalised east London, the place where I grew up, successfully restructured the whole economy, dragging Britain away from the danger zone, leaving the physical marks of her success in, for instance, the Eurostar and the London docklands.

Margaret loved this country and loved the place in which we now work. She believed in the supremacy of Parliament, as I do and as you certainly do, Mr Speaker—may the army of unelected decision-makers take note. She stood up for Britain in Europe and liberated the Falkland Islands from the Argentine invaders. She stood up for freedom and democracy against the tyranny of communism. She defeated socialism. She believed that Government should create the conditions under which every human being should be given the opportunity to make the most of their lives. She made this country and our world better places in which to live. She is certainly the greatest politician I have ever met, and I am just so blessed to have worked in Parliament under her leadership. The memory of this remarkable lady will last for ever.

Syria and the Use of Chemical Weapons

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Thursday 29th August 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Mitchell]

The views of the NGOs on this matter are mixed, but what is clear is that part of the contribution that Britain can make—and other countries more so—to the humanitarian situation is to fund the NGOs and agencies that are working cross-border. Virtually all the aid currently goes through Damascus. Very little aid goes cross-border into the rebel-held territory, which means that, in effect, the international community is preventing the areas controlled by the regime from starving, but starving the areas held by the rebels.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

[Mr Mitchell]

I am afraid I have had my injury time.

I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale (Tim Farron), but this is a complex situation and the NGOs on the ground disagree on the matter. Even at this late stage, we must continue to demand unfettered access for those brilliant people in the humanitarian and relief community who are risking their lives daily and to whom my hon. Friend has referred.

Finally, we come to the present situation. Chemical weapons have been used. War crimes have been committed. A violation of international law has taken place. This is a regime which stoops to gas its own people. It is hard to think of a situation which more rightly triggers the Responsibility to Protect that has been referred to this afternoon. In my view, failure by the international community to act would be far more dangerous than taking evidence-based, proportionate and legal military action as a clear lesson to human rights abusers and dictators who murder and terrorise innocent civilian populations.

[Dr Alasdair McDonnell (Belfast South) (SDLP)]

I rise to agree with many of those present and to say that, in my opinion, we are all united in our disbelief and deep sense of grief and revulsion at the tragedy that is unfolding in Syria. All of us in this House know that this conflict has gone on in its current phase for two years and has ripped the heart out of that country and its long-suffering people. However, my colleagues in the Social Democratic and Labour party and I are gravely concerned about any prospect of military action, the bombing—whether it be selective or non-selective—of Syria and the haste with which this course appears to have been embarked on.

Our objections are based primarily on simple, straightforward moral and ethical grounds. Beyond those ethical grounds, however, are the significant practical considerations and consequences. On a practical level, we believe that any military activity will be counter-productive and will not save lives but in fact cost them. As was said earlier, it is no more pleasant for a person to be killed by a cruise missile than by gas—they are still dead. Our objective should be to be humanitarian and protect lives.

[Jim Shannon]

Does the hon. Gentleman share my concern, and that of many Members, about the Christian minority of some half a million, who have been displaced, murdered and ethnically cleansed? Any attack upon Syria, whatever it may be, could have repercussions for the Christian minority, who are concerned about what would happen given the example of Iraq, where there were 1.3 million Christians before the war and only 300,000 afterwards.

[Dr McDonnell]

I share the hon. Gentleman’s concerns, which dovetail with my point that whatever the British Government do, they should ensure that their actions do not make the situation worse or lead directly or indirectly to their excusing or justifying more deaths among those active in the conflict in Syria.

I urge the Prime Minister to pause and resist the temptation to launch a war just because there are pressures coming from some sources or because he feels it is the only option. The opinion poll showing that only 11% of the people feel favourably disposed to the concept has already been referred to, and that means that 89% are hostile to it.

I wish also to pose the question of how the sight of a British and US-led attack is likely to be perceived across the middle east, not just in Syria, especially if it is carried out without credible UN backing or on the basis of uncertain or confused intelligence. That would risk handing the Syrian regime a major propaganda victory at a pivotal point, which its supporters could rally around. The impact on the wider region is even more uncertain and potentially volatile. Even if such action could ever be morally justified, which I and my colleagues do not accept, there surely needs to be a serious prospect of an endgame that has an outcome of success and of benefit in some shape or form.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Donaldson]

Indeed; that is one of the weaknesses in the Government’s motion that is causing us concern. The Government talk about voices in the Arab world being raised in support of intervention, but that does not mean that any such intervention would not have consequences for the stability of the wider region. If we intervene, where does it begin and end? I accept what the Government say about intervention being focused on removing or diminishing the capacity to use chemical weapons. That is a noble objective, but I am concerned about the outcome of such an intervention. That is why I am not convinced that military intervention is in our national interest, never mind conducive to building stability in a troubled region.

[Jim Shannon]

Further to that point, does my right hon. Friend recognise the implications for the ethnic minorities in Syria, and in particular for the Christians, who have been subject to ethnic cleansing? Those Christians just want the support of the Syrian state and unity in their country, and yet they are subject to intimidation and persecution.

[Mr Donaldson]

Indeed. Other right hon. and hon. Members have referred to the religious minorities in Syria and the impact that the conflict is having on them. We have heard colourful and dreadful descriptions of what is happening in Syria.

If the Government choose to take military action and are able to persuade Parliament to take that path, we need to have some understanding of what diplomatic and humanitarian efforts will be made alongside it. There have been some contributions on humanitarian issues. In Iraq, we had Operation Safe Haven, which was designed to safeguard civilians. I would like to hear more from the Government about what we are doing on that front.

How are we using our powerful diplomatic influence across the region? Ambassadors such as Tom Fletcher in Beirut do an excellent job in trying to bring stability to the region. I would like to hear what our diplomatic outposts are saying to the Government about the potential impacts of military action in the region, because that would be important in informing this House about the global and regional consequences of what we decide to do.

My party is not the kind of party that takes the soft option on such matters. We recognise the atrocities that have been committed in Syria. It is terrible that 300 or more lives have been lost as a result of this atrocity. However, as other Members have rightly said today, almost 100,000 lives have been lost in Syria. If the Assad regime commits another atrocity with conventional weapons tomorrow, the next day or five days after military intervention, what will we say when we see the body bags and the scenes from Damascus, Aleppo or wherever it might be? What will we say about the human disaster that is taking place there? Is it only because of the use of chemical weapons that this House will decide that military intervention is necessary? What about the continuing use of conventional weapons, some of which were supplied by western states to the Assad regime? We need to give those matters careful consideration.

I also want to mention our capacity in chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear defence. I say this as a member of the Defence Committee. We recently announced that the reserve capacity on CBRN is to be axed. We have axed the CBRN regiment in our armed forces. If chemical warfare is so important to us, why are we diminishing the capacity of the UK armed forces to deal with it? That is an issue that the Government need to address, and not just within the context of a review of the strategic defence and security review.

In conclusion, we will think long and hard before we vote for military action. To date, including in the debate in the House today, we have not heard anything that convinces us that it is the right thing to do in our national interest.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 10th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mike Penning]

I do not think anybody in Northern Ireland or in the House would say that the matter has not had an awful lot of attention in the past 15 years. The previous Government were unable to find a solution. I understand the problems that they had, and people have to understand the problems that we have. We need a consensus, and then we can move on. Until we get consensus, we cannot do that.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

At a time when newts and bats can stop a multi-million-pound planning application, will the Minister explain to me and the House how pursuing a Bill of Rights that does not address the basic right of an unborn child can possibly be value for money, and why it should be high on anybody’s priority list?

[Mike Penning]

I respect the hon. Gentleman’s views, but he has just explained exactly why the Bill of Rights has taken 15 years and there is a lot of work still to come on it.

Afghanistan and EU Council

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 2nd July 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

In my discussions with Prime Minister Sharif, he made it very clear that his three priorities were the economy, energy and extremism. On combating extremism, I think that we agree not only that there is a need for a tough security response, but that we need to drain the swamp of extremism, including by reforming education. He particularly praised the work that British aid has delivered in the Punjab, where his brother is the Chief Minister. Sir Michael Barber—a well-known British civil servant—has worked his socks off making more than 30 visits to the Punjab and delivering a programme that has meant that millions of Pakistani children have had schooling that they otherwise would not have had. That is all down to his hard work and to British aid.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Prime Minister for his statement. I had the opportunity two years ago to visit Afghanistan and, in particular, to visit Lashkar Gah, where the police recruits were being trained. The US Government have invested $6 million in their training college. The policing training might be rudimentary, but it is very important. Will the Prime Minister update the House on how many police officers are trained each quarter and whether they are on target to deliver sufficient police officers for all of Afghanistan?

[The Prime Minister]

I do not have the specific figures for police officer training, but in our monthly update to Parliament, which I instituted, Members can see the police training numbers, the army training numbers, the overall national security force training numbers and the retention numbers. This is a good moment to pay tribute to all those from Britain, including those from Northern Ireland, for the role that they have played in helping to train the trainers in those important programmes.

G8

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 19th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right to speak as he does; he speaks with great authority on this matter. If we cast our minds back to 2001, we will remember that one of the reasons we went into Afghanistan was that the then Taliban regime refused to give up or condemn al-Qaeda. The whole point of the action was to get al-Qaeda out of Afghanistan and to stop them launching attacks from there on our soil. We should pay tribute to the more than 400 service personnel who have given their lives and to the many more who have been wounded. We should pay tribute to the incredible work they have done. They have helped bring us to a point at which Afghanistan is now taking responsibility for its own security through the highly capable Afghan national security forces. The Taliban have said in their statement that they do not want to see Afghanistan being used as a base for attacks on other countries.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Prime Minister for his statement today. I welcome the distinctive British agenda for the G8 summit in Enniskillen, the PR for the Province and the two days of sunshine—although I am sure that he had no control over that last element. He referred to talks with the Taliban. Will the conditions for starting such talks include a cessation of violence or a ceasefire prior to the start of the process?

Oral Answers to Questions

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 4th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

I pay tribute to the hon. Gentleman, who is passionate about this issue. I read with great interest the papers from the conference on character he hosted back in February. It is a slightly amorphous term, but none the less an important one to grapple with as a factor in determining how well children do, and particularly in determining how well they do in, as it were, escaping the circumstances of their birth and realising their aspirations. I hope that a number of the early years policies I have alluded to, and reforms in the welfare and tax system that ensure that work always pays and that people in low-income work retain more of the money they earn, will help to boost social mobility in the long run.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

To prevent postal and proxy vote fraud, what discussions has the Minister had with the Northern Ireland Assembly and the Electoral Commission in Northern Ireland to learn from the steps that the Assembly has taken to stop such fraud?

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Miss Chloe Smith)]

I would be happy to have further discussions with the hon. Gentleman on those matters. I can confirm that the electoral registration transformation programme seeks to work with all appropriate bodies throughout the system to combat fraud. He makes an important point on the integrity of the electoral system. We are committed to combating fraud and the perception of fraud wherever it arises.

Debate on the Address

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 8th May 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The simple truth, at the next election, is if you want an in/out referendum on Europe, the only way to get it will be by supporting the Conservative party. That is clear. There are two major parties in the House that oppose a referendum, and there is one that will stand for a referendum. We will put that to the people at the next election.

The Queen’s Speech does not duck the tough challenges. We need to get the deficit down, so we will complete a spending review by the end of June. We will legislate to abolish needless bureaucracy such as the Audit Commission. We will pass laws to raise revenue by stopping tax abuse. We need to restore our competitiveness, so the Queen’s Speech includes a deregulation Bill to cut business costs, and a national insurance Bill to cut taxes for small businesses. We will press ahead with our high-speed rail Bill so that we get the infrastructure we need. Our intellectual property Bill will give us an up-to-date system of patents, including a key part of the European patent court right here in London.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The Prime Minister has given an extensive shopping list of the things he will introduce this Session, but he has not spoken about plain packaging for tobacco and the introduction of minimum alcohol pricing. In the light of the health issues in relation to alcohol abuse and for those dying from cancer, will he even now give us a commitment to introduce both plain packaging for tobacco and a minimum price for alcohol?

[The Prime Minister]

On the issue of plain packaging for cigarettes, the consultation is still under way, and we are looking at the issue carefully. On minimum pricing for alcohol, it is important that we take action to deal with deeply discounted alcohol, with cans of lager sometimes selling for as little as 25p in supermarkets. We will be bringing forward a package of measures, and it is important that we get this right.

--- Later in debate ---

[Keith Vaz]

The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right, and as a former shadow Home Secretary and someone who still speaks with great authority on home affairs, he will know that that is at the heart of how we can get an efficient and accountable police force. At the moment there are a number of investigations, from Yewtree to Alice and a whole lot of others—I think I last totalled them at 10—which are costing the taxpayer millions. One of the problems with such investigations is that they go on endlessly with no timetable. There needs to be an end for those who make complaints, otherwise the process is never-ending. It is not the job of the Home Affairs Committee to hold the police to account, although we will do our part, otherwise we would constantly be having evidence sessions on the matter and writing letters. As far as the Metropolitan police are concerned, the Mayor and Deputy Mayor of London have a responsibility to act, as police and crime commissioners now act outside the capital.

The right hon. Gentleman is right that integrity is important, which is why it is right that the Government have included in the Gracious Speech more flesh on the bones of the College of Policing. We need to know who will be responsible for integrity and who will keep the register of interests for chief constables. We still do not know that, and there is no register of interests for police and crime commissioners, so the whole agenda, which might be seen as esoteric, is actually central to the nature of policing in this country.

There are other matters to consider. For instance, where will counter-terrorism responsibility sit? Will it be in the National Crime Agency, or will it be kept with the Met? The public demand that we examine such issues and complete the jigsaw.

I have three final points. First, I am very disappointed that there is nothing in the Queen’s Speech about a minimum unit price for alcohol. The Home Secretary said on 23 March 2012:

“We will therefore introduce a minimum unit price for alcohol”.—[Official Report, 23 March 2012; Vol. 542, c. 1071.]

That was quite a definitive statement. Alcohol-related crime now accounts for 50% of crime in this country, and billions are spent on dealing with it. The Government are clearly committed to introducing a minimum unit price—at least, the Home Secretary and the Prime Minister were committed to it when they made their statements earlier this year. The whole consultation came after the event. The Government were consulting on the level of the unit price, not on whether there should be one, because the Home Secretary had made it clear that that was what she wanted.

[Jim Shannon]

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the press coverage today, which seems to indicate that the Prime Minister and the Government may have been influenced by their advisers to prevent the proposal from going ahead? If so, does he feel that it is an abysmal use of advisers?

[Keith Vaz]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention, and I noted his intervention on the Prime Minister and what the Prime Minister said. In the end, however, although it would be convenient to blame advisers, it is the Prime Minister and Ministers who make the decisions, so the buck must stop with them. I think we need a more detailed explanation of why we are not proceeding with that proposal. Similarly, many of my constituents have made representations against plain packaging for cigarettes, and there are small shopkeepers in my constituency who think such a measure is wrong. We need a proper argument and debate on the issue, and when we come to a conclusion we must legislate.

My worry is that while looking at the new landscape of policing we seem to have forgotten that of the criminal justice system. When I was Justice Minister we set up the community legal service, which seems to have disappeared. Many law centres are closing. Sadly, the one I used to work for in Leicester, now called the community legal advice centre, had to close due to cuts of £700,000. It was used by 10,000 people every year. Right hon. and hon. Members across the House expect constituents to come to their surgeries and complain about different aspects of policy, but I am sure that now even more people are arriving with benefit and housing problems because of cuts to those services. Michael Turner, chairman of the Criminal Bar Association, anticipates that of 1,600 legal aid firms currently in existence, only 400 will remain once the cuts have gone through. There is nothing in the speech about that although there should have been because it is an issue of profound importance.

In conclusion, I am sorry that the Queen’s Speech contained nothing more about the health service. As the House knows, I have type 2 diabetes. Practically every day the newspapers carry information about the fact that diabetes is becoming an epidemic in this country, and I know that a number of Members of this House also suffer from it. We need legislation to deal with soft drinks companies that have not adhered to the principles of the responsibility deal. It is still the case that every can of Coke contains eight teaspoons of sugar, and we should be beginning—and pursuing—a war on salt. Unless we do that, diabetes will get much worse in this country. There is no legislation on that issue, but I take heart from the final words of the Queen’s Speech, which state that “other measures” will be placed before the House. That is the get-out clause for the Government, and I hope those other measures will include some of the issues discussed today that were not able to be included in the Gracious Speech.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Davis]

For two months. Health tourists coming to this country to get a single operation or a single course may be wanting only the two months, so this is another area where we have carefully to think through the obverse effect of these actions. I know the pressures on politicians are high following the UKIP flurry in the past week or two, but we have to think carefully.

[Jim Shannon]

rose—

[Mr Davis]

I am trying to sum up, but I will give way.

[Jim Shannon]

I understand that the statistics show that those coming from Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary and other eastern European countries bypass Italy and Germany to come to Great Britain because of the better NHS treatment and the better benefits system, so does the right hon. Gentleman feel that that has to be addressed?

[Mr Davis]

I am afraid that that is not true. I do not want to end up giving a lecture on this, but let me say that the previous Government made a simple mistake in allowing access before the transitional periods were up for those from the entire A8 group of accession countries—Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic and so on. Therefore a large number of people who could not get into Germany and France at that time came to this country, because they were allowed legitimately to do so; ours was the only big country to do that. As a result, we end up with a Polish community—with Polish shops, Polish newspapers and so on—and so where do Poles go when everything is opened up? They come to where there is an indigenous Polish community, and that is perfectly reasonable. All of this is rational behaviour on the part of people who want to work, make a living and get on in life, and I cannot disapprove of them doing that. So one mistake was made then and that is what it led to. We are not going to be in the same position in respect of Romania and Bulgaria, so it is difficult to predict the numbers. I was the shadow Home Secretary who challenged the right hon. Member for Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough (Mr Blunkett) when, as Home Secretary, he said that 13,000 eastern Europeans would be the total number coming to this country. He eventually got so nervous about this that he started saying, “I am the Home Secretary, but the Home Office is saying this.” He realised that his numbers were wrong and the real number turned out to be millions.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 26th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Northern Ireland has had a number of convictions for human trafficking, and there are cases pending. Legislation will soon be introduced in the Northern Ireland Assembly by my colleague, Lord Morrow. Will the Solicitor-General outline the co-operation across all regions of the United Kingdom to tackle human trafficking?

[The Solicitor-General]

As the hon. Gentleman will know, there has been considerable co-operation and co-ordination of effort, particularly over intelligence and how those offences can be disrupted. Of course, there is an issue about the new National Crime Agency and exactly how it will operate—he will be aware of the situation and the ongoing discussions. It is important that there is that co-ordination of effort, which happens across the United Kingdom and the wider world, in trying to tackle the problem.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 6th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

This day, particularly when we are about to discuss what happened at Stafford hospital, is a day to talk about the importance of care in our health service, the importance of the front line and, above all, the importance of really looking at quality and listening to patients. Under this Government, of course resources have been constrained, for all the reasons we discuss across the Dispatch Box, week in, week out, but we made a conscious choice to put more money into the NHS and get that to the front line. That is why there are 5,900 more doctors and 19,000 fewer non-clinical staff. The money is going to the front line, but the focus needs to be on quality and the patient.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Q8. Does the Prime Minister share the concern of the Democratic Unionist party about suicide levels in our society? In the light of the debate later in this House, will he assure me and my party of the Government’s support to raise awareness of that issue and work with the devolved Administrations to tackle this scourge across the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?

[The Prime Minister]

First, I commend the hon. Gentleman and the Democratic Unionists for tabling this motion and bringing forward the issue. We often do not talk enough or address the whole issue of suicide in our society and country, and it is absolutely right to do so. It is a shocking statistic that in Northern Ireland almost six times the number of people killed in road traffic accidents are lost to suicide. Raising awareness of the issue and ensuring a proper cross-Government strategy to help people deal with it is vital, and the DUP is right to raise it.

Electoral Registration

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 15th January 2013 Westminster Hall

[Chris Ruane]

I have been instructed to carry on by the Chair.

There are a few issues in the excellent document by the Electoral Commission, “Managing electoral registration in Great Britain”, which was published in June 2012. It gives some performance indicators. However, one of the worrying performance indicators is:

“Performance standard 3: House-to-house enquiries.”

“House-to-house enquiries” involves sending canvassers round, from house to house, to find non-responders. In 2008, 16% of electoral registration officers did not perform that role; in 2009, that went down to 5%; in 2010, there were only 2% of officers not carrying out this essential function to get the registration up; and in 2011, the figure increased by 800%, to go back up to 16%.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

This is obviously a very important issue when it comes to voter disengagement. Does the hon. Gentleman feel that there is also perhaps a role for political parties? When it comes to MPs doing their constituency work, and interacting with their constituents, perhaps whenever that work has been done the MP can say, “Are you on the electoral list and if you’re not, perhaps you can register?”

[Chris Ruane]

Absolutely. It is incumbent upon us all as MPs to do that—no vote, no voice. That issue needs to be considered as well.

May I respectfully ask that the statistics that I have given are sent to every MP, every Assembly Member, every Member of the Scottish Parliament and every Member of the Legislative Assembly in Northern Ireland, as well as to every councillor across the land, so that we get some pressure from below? As well as Governments passing laws from above, we will get some pressure from below. If most MPs realised that their electoral registration officer was not fulfilling their duties, they would be on to them, but nobody knows about these facts and figures. So I ask the Minister if she will use her offices to ensure that this vital information is sent out to all MPs.

I realise that I have a colleague, my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh East (Sheila Gilmore), who wishes to speak, so I will—

[Chris Ruane]

Okay. In that case, Chair, I shall go on even a little bit longer. [Laughter.]

Some of the issues pertaining to Northern Ireland have been mentioned by a number of Members—

[Jim Shannon]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Chris Ruane]

I will give way on that issue, because I know that my hon. Friend is from Northern Ireland.

[Jim Shannon]

The hon. Gentleman has made that point about Northern Ireland. Just for the record, Mr Owen, I want to say that many people are not registered and those who vote perhaps give an indication in the wrong ballot box—that is my opinion, of course. However, after the disgraceful decision to remove the Union flag from Belfast city hall, the number of people who registered to make a decision and make a change went up greatly. Of course, by that stage it was too late. So, if people want to make a change, vote early.

[Chris Ruane]

Hopefully early, but not often. I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention.

In the case of Northern Ireland, when the changes were introduced in 2006—I admit that they were introduced by a Labour Administration, and that the requirement to have that annual canvass and get out there “on the knocker” was not in place and there was continual registration—registration rates went down in the five or six years afterwards, to 71%, meaning that 29% of people were not registered. If the analysis is made, we will find out that those people, in the main, will be people who live in council houses, or tenants of social landlords, unemployed people or low-paid people, and quite often they will be black or minority ethnic. So quite often these are the people on the margins of society, and as I say there are currently 6 million of them missing from across the UK and the figure for Northern Ireland is proportionally higher than for anywhere else in the UK. So we need to learn the lessons from Northern Ireland if we are rolling out this Bill.

It has been claimed by the Electoral Commission, and I think by the leader of the Liberal Democrats as well, that these changes will be the biggest changes since the introduction of universal suffrage. If they are that big, we need consensus, and if there is not consensus I can promise the Government this—if Labour gets in at the next election, there will be a massive push from Back Benchers and Ministers to undo what has been done.

Labour did not politicise the issue of electoral registration for the 13 years that it was in government. I wish that it had. I was taking the message back to Ministers—Labour Ministers—and saying, “This is a big issue. We have 3.5 million people unregistered.” We could have politicised that issue. If those 3.5 million people ever voted, they would have been our voters. And in fact it was not 3.5 million people; it was 6 million people. If those 6 million people are added to the register, there would be no need for the equalisation of parliamentary seats, because the vast majority of those 6 million people would be in Labour seats. So this issue of registration has massive implications and I urge the Minister, and her team and the Prime Minister, to listen carefully and not to go about this process in a party political way but in a fair, balanced and consensual way.

When Labour came to power in 1997, after we had been out of power for 18 years, the first thing we did was to give away power. We did that by introducing proportional representation for European elections. In Wales, we went from four Labour MEPs to one. That was not in our party political interest. We had a majority of 180 Members of Parliament, and we could have established the Northern Ireland Assembly, the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly without PR, but we did not. We could have dominated those institutions, certainly in Wales and Scotland, but we did not— we did things in a balanced way. Again, that worked against us.

What did we do with quangos? They were stuffed with Tories. The quango king of the country lived in my constituency. He was on £86,000 a year in 1996—more than the Prime Minister. What did Labour do? There was no more of that. We took out big, full-page adverts, usually in The Daily Telegraph, asking for good, decent people. We said that things would be non-party political. We gave away power in local government in Scotland. Everything was balanced.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Owen. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Blaenau Gwent (Nick Smith) for securing the debate.

We assume that the Electoral Registration and Administration Bill will complete all its stages at some point and that individual voter registration will go ahead. The Bill will come into force in a period when quite a lot of important things are going on electorally. In Scotland, the process will take place at much the same time as the referendum, which raises considerable issues for electoral registration officers, who will have to manage the processes simultaneously. For the purposes of the referendum, there is a proposal—what happens will depend on the view taken by the Scottish Parliament later this year—to enfranchise 16 and 17-year-olds. If that happens—the Scottish Government have certainly indicated their intention to do it—it will raise procedural questions about how these things are done. Electoral registration officers in my city, for example, could therefore be dealing with a large number of issues at the same time as individual electoral registration.

Like many Members, I think it is important that we put in the effort. The canvass is important. It does not necessarily have to be hugely more expensive, although equally we should not take money away from electoral registration officers. We need to know where the effort needs to be put in, and if electoral registration officers do not know, they need only ask political parties, which can certainly tell them, because the differences in electoral registration in different parts of our constituencies can be extremely stark. We can almost predict where the low registration will be before we go into certain streets and start looking at the electoral register to discover just how many households are missing from it. Armed with that knowledge, we could concentrate on areas where we already know there is a shortfall. Things will only get worse—there is no doubt about that—so we need to concentrate on certain places.

We may need to think laterally about making it easier for people to register. For example, I was out knocking on doors at the weekend and the Member with me pointed out that several of the apparently unregistered houses belonged to council tenants. How did we know that? We knew what kind of new doors the council had recently put on those houses, and we took a bit of guess, albeit it was a fairly safe deduction. Those people had probably moved into those properties relatively recently. New tenants go through various processes with the council: they sign tenancy agreements and some, but not all, apply for housing benefit. That is an ideal opportunity to register people at the same time. People have to do a lot of things—they sign up for the electricity and other things—so why not make electoral registration part of the process, so that they can automatically register as they take up their new tenancy?

Often, it is those very people who come to our surgeries—they are certainly coming to my surgeries at the moment—and say things like, “I’ve just had this letter saying I’ll have to pay something towards my rent from April. I’ve never heard anything about this. I don’t know anything about this.” They see these things as politics, but politics is, of course, about things that happen to them. Once people realise that, they begin to be get a bit more interested, but no doubt some of the people who come to see us and are very angry are not registered. We therefore need to think about making electoral registration as straightforward as possible.

We could go into schools to register young people; that is not at all unreasonable, because once people are registered, the forms will continue in future years. I do not see why it is not possible—this was raised previously—to allow people to register quite late in the election run-up. When there is an election, people’s minds turn to registration. With modern technology and the ability to deal with late registration, we could perhaps let people register virtually up to the election, as happens in parts of the United States. If we do that, people who become interested and who see that the election matters will not find themselves unable to vote. I have known people turn up at a polling station only to discover to their horror that they are unable to vote. At times, they get very angry about that, because they have been fired up by what they have heard.

One thing that is slightly worrying to somebody who sat through the debates on the Bill and who is a member of the Select Committee on Political and Constitutional Reform is that we are now hearing that the situation in Northern Ireland is not as rosy as we were led to believe. The Select Committee looked at the issue and took evidence on it. We were aware that there had been a fall-off in registration initially, but we were given repeated assurances, first, that it was a temporary phenomenon that had been overcome and, secondly, that the rest of the UK would learn from the process and not make the same mistakes. Now, however, we hear that it might not be such a temporary phenomenon. That may be because there was concern at the outset, so extra effort was made to improve the position, but that declined again when the foot was taken off the pedal, which clearly shows that we have to keep putting in the effort. That is a matter of some concern because of the assurances we were given. Those of us who raised concerns about the Northern Ireland situation were told that we really had nothing to worry about, that it had been resolved and that things were moving forward much more successfully. That is not the case.

In the lead-up to the changes, the Government need to look carefully at improving registration levels, which clearly are not good enough in some places. That would be necessary even without individual voter registration. That may require electoral registration officers to work far more closely with their fellow local government employees, laterally in relation to council housing, but there is also housing association housing. They might even work with some private landlords to see whether a link can be made, because that group of tenants is probably the most mobile and they are the ones falling through the hole.

Once we have all the household figures from the most recent census, which have not been published yet, we will clearly see what we know anecdotally from our own areas, which is how much more private renting there is now than there was even 10 years ago. That is such a mobile population that it is probably a major factor in reducing levels of electoral registration. How can we make contact with people when they move in? Can we find ways whereby electoral registration officers do not sit somewhere, isolated, but work with letting agents, perhaps, to make the forms available?

[Jim Shannon]

One of the problems with the Northern Ireland process was that the data-processing system was not working correctly, so the information was not all collated. One of the reasons for that was the funding. Wherever a data-matching process is set up, bringing all the different bodies, benefits and rent allocations together, it should show where the person is, but it does not always work that way unless there is funding to ensure that that the data-matching process takes place. That is a lesson that has been learned in Northern Ireland. The system has not worked. It must work better.

[Sheila Gilmore]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that comment and insight into problems that have arisen. There are dangers in relying on a technological answer. As we found with some of the data-matching pilots, different organisations record things very differently, although perhaps that should not happen; the technology does not always work; addresses are not always referred to in the same way. Such small differences mean that although the technology should make it possible to identify where a person is, even if they were not previously on the register, that may not happen. A small difference in the description of the address is enough for the technology to let people down.

There is nothing better than the individual approach, and we should not rely on technology to perform that task. Technology has a place, and if it makes certain things easier, all well and good. It may provide a base to start from, but it is wrong to assume that it will somehow get us out of the problem. Getting out to people where they are—for example, by having an electoral registration officer sitting in a supermarket with a stall and forms to catch people while they are there—is not a bad idea. There are all sorts of ways to engage better with people. I hope that that will be taken seriously, that electoral registration officers will be given the resources and information they need, and that good practice will be shared so that that can happen. Otherwise things will get worse. It is deeply depressing to go to what I suppose in my constituency is a typical tenement building and to find that of perhaps eight or 10 residences, barely half are registered, even under the present system. It is not good enough.