Oral Answers to Questions

Kevin Hollinrake Excerpts

Tuesday 12th September 2017 Commons Chamber

[Greg Clark]

Ofgem is the regulator, and it had a report from the Competition and Markets Authority saying that consumers are being ripped off to the tune of £1.4 billion a year. We have a regulator with powers given by Parliament, and those powers should be used. That is the challenge for Ofgem. I would be very surprised and very disappointed if any of the big six, knowing the objectivity of the CMA report, were to protest and appeal against such a determination.

[Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

T2. I know the ministerial team has been working hard on this, but the issue with sleep-in shifts, if it is not resolved, is that charities will have to close their doors and the people they support, including those with learning disabilities, will be left without care. Will the Minister update us on the progress on quantifying the back-pay liabilities of those charities and on when an appropriate solution will be delivered?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Margot James)]

Social care providers play a vital role in supporting some of the most vulnerable people in our society, but workers in that sector should be paid fairly for the important work they do. The Government are working closely with providers and worker representatives to estimate the scale of any back-pay liabilities for sleep-in shifts, and we have temporarily suspended HMRC enforcement action while that work continues, and it is continuing as a matter of urgency.

Bereavement Leave: Loss of a Child

Kevin Hollinrake Excerpts

Tuesday 12th September 2017 Westminster Hall

[Paul Masterton (East Renfrewshire) (Con)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the matter of bereavement leave for families who lose a child.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Brady. I am pleased that the House has the opportunity to debate the provision of formal statutory leave for those parents who suffer the unimaginable pain of losing a child, and the wider bereavement support that we can offer.

The genesis of the debate is the all-party parliamentary group for children who need palliative care, of which I am honoured to be a member alongside several hon. Members in attendance today. I pay tribute at the outset to Together for Short Lives for both the work it does in supporting the APPG and the voice it provides for babies, children, young people and their parents when a short life is expected. I also thank the other charities supporting the debate, including CLIC Sargent, Rainbow Trust, Children’s Hospices Across Scotland and Bliss. I also highlight the work of the all-party parliamentary group on baby loss—and, in particular, that of its co-chair, my hon. Friend the Member for Colchester (Will Quince), who has pursued this incredibly sensitive issue with dignity and determination.

The Conservative manifesto may have had more than a few faults, but the commitment on page 70 that a Conservative Government would

“ensure all families who lose a baby are given the bereavement support they need, including a new entitlement to child bereavement leave”

rightly attained wide support across the population. More than 5,000 children die every year, leaving many thousands of parents to go through that personal tragedy, and 60% of those deaths occur in the first year. While this issue is always tricky to discuss—I have two children under three, and many people in the Chamber and in our constituency and Westminster offices have personal experience of it—it is vital that we talk about it, show support to parents in that tragic situation and help to give them some reassurance that their jobs and pay—the last thing anyone in that situation should have to worry about—will be protected. It is right for Parliament to look at the rights given to parents.

The APPG for children who need palliative care was therefore concerned that bereavement leave was not referenced explicitly in the Queen’s Speech. The initial driver for hosting the debate was to obtain assurance from the Government that it had not been lost in the fray. Happily, that concern has been somewhat superseded by the announcement that the Government intend to support the private Member’s Bill tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton (Kevin Hollinrake). That is welcome news. The Bill will address the existing discrepancy whereby parents who lose a newborn, or whose child is stillborn, are entitled to full parental leave, but someone who loses an infant, toddler or older child at any point after which parental leave may be taken is reliant entirely on the good grace of their employer. Of course, we are still a long way from that Bill becoming law, and, as we know, private Members’ Bills often do not reach the end point, so we must continue to ensure that the Government keep to their word.

The debate is also timely in the light of Baby Loss Awareness week, now in its 15th year, taking place in a few weeks’ time, between 9 and 15 October. It is a collaboration between 40 UK charities to raise awareness about the issues surrounding pregnancy and baby loss. This year’s main focus is a call to improve bereavement support for families affected by baby and pregnancy loss. I am sure the whole House will join me in supporting Baby Loss Awareness week.

It is evident that the standards, quality and consistency of bereavement care vary wildly across the UK, with bereavement care training not being mandatory and so not readily available. Far too many health boards both north and south of the border do not have dedicated bereavement rooms in their maternity units. Could this Government and the Scottish Government do more to recognise the importance of bereavement services and ensure that they are being commissioned for families? I certainly think they could.

In Scotland—Mr Brady, I appreciate that provision of health services is devolved—more than 5,800 babies are admitted into neonatal services. The care that those babies receive in the first hours, days and weeks of their life is critical to their survival and lifelong health. We know that the healthcare professionals delivering such care every day are committed to bringing about the very best outcomes for babies and their families, yet we also know that services right around the UK are under pressure.

Research by Bliss Scotland has shown that, in common with the position in England, many neonatal units across Scotland consistently do not meet national standards on safe staffing levels, and units often cannot offer parents facilities to stay with their critically ill baby so that they can be involved in their care. Similar pressures exist throughout children’s services units for older kids. Family-centred care must be embedded in relevant hospital units, with guidance outlining minimum standards on the level of free accommodation and other practical and financial support packages available to parents. In my constituency, about 89 babies who need specialist care to survive are born each year. While many will go on to thrive, sadly some do not. Many other families have the joy of a healthy and happy child being brought into the world but then suffer the pain of loss years later due to illness or tragic accident.

Given that we know parents with a child receiving vital care will incur significant financial expenditure on items such as parking, travel, food and drink, and childcare for other children as well as loss of earnings, it is surely right that, if the worst follows, the Government are there to provide some assistance in those darkest of hours. Indeed, in the west of Scotland, those additional costs are estimated to be about £200 a week, and that is in a pretty urban area. The cost for parents in rural parts of Scotland is significantly higher. Introducing statutory bereavement leave seems the very least we in this place can do, at a cost of what—a few million quid? The value of the peace of mind and reassurance that would give to parents whose world has disintegrated around them is immeasurable. Paid leave would give parents the time to make decisions based on their needs rather than their financial situation. It is a law we want, but never want to rely on.

We may want to believe that all employers, large and small, will be sympathetic to employees—indeed, many do provide discretionary compassionate leave—but the truth is that not all are. A recent survey run on behalf of Child Bereavement UK found that almost a third of those who had suffered the loss of a loved one in the past five years felt they had not been treated compassionately by their employer. A father of a baby born at 26 weeks, who died aged three days, was called during his two-week paternity leave by his employer and told that, because his son was dead, there was no child to look after, so he was being treated as absent without leave and asked when he would be returning to work. The man did not work for a small business that was perhaps a bit backward in its approach to human resources; he worked for a large multinational company with more than 20,000 employees in the UK. Some form of statutory protection is therefore needed.

The Employment Rights Act 1996 merely allows employees to take a “reasonable” amount of unpaid time off to deal with an emergency involving a dependant. As Ministers have rightly recognised, holding down a job at the same time as dealing with grief can be incredibly difficult. Therefore, more must be done. I am pleased that the Government are intent on providing parents with the support they need, but we must consider whether the availability of leave should be restricted to parent carers or extended to legal guardians and others who may have had formal caring responsibilities. At the very least, we need to look more carefully at the definition of “parent”, and who should be entitled to leave.

I also question whether we need to build flexibility into the system, and not assume that parents suffering from grief will want simply to take two single weeks in blocks a short time after the death of a child. Organisations such as Together for Short Lives and Rainbow Trust have asked for the period during which leave can be taken to be extended to 52 weeks.

[Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this important debate. I am delighted to have the privilege of taking forward a Bill on this matter, which was first introduced by my hon. Friend the Member for Colchester (Will Quince), to try to ensure that people get bereavement leave in such circumstances. My hon. Friend the Member for East Renfrewshire (Paul Masterton) has clearly thought long and hard about some of the issues. Will he be willing to work with me and my hon. Friend the Member for Colchester to ensure that we get the provisions right from the start so that the Bill looks after those who are affected by these terrible tragedies?

[Paul Masterton]

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. I would be honoured to work alongside him and my hon. Friend the Member for Colchester in taking this issue forward and ensuring that it gets to where it needs to be. Given the findings of the Taylor report regarding the modern world of work—I know the Minister has been closely involved with that report—the increase in self-employed individuals and the wider discussions around extending benefits to them, could the Government take steps for an equivalent benefit to be offered to self-employed parents?

I want to finish by talking about the support we might need to give employers—particularly small employers —in dealing with employees in such a situation. Child Bereavement UK noted:

“Fear of returning to work and facing colleagues, loss of confidence and increased sick leave are not uncommon. Ability to concentrate, make decisions, meet deadlines and maintain performance and productivity levels can all be at least temporarily compromised, and there can be higher incidences of job-related injuries and accidents.

This not only has the potential to impact on a bereaved employee’s ability to work effectively, but can also have a knock-on effect on other employees, who are often at a loss as to how to respond when a colleague returns to work after bereavement, and over time may feel that accommodating the needs of a bereaved colleague places added pressure on them.”

A survey by the Rainbow Trust found that more than half of parents who were working at the time their child died did not feel they were given enough time to cope, and that 50% took at least one month off work. Paid bereavement leave needs to sit alongside a wider package of bereavement support, both for the parents, through psychological support, and for employers, through ensuring that they are able to put in appropriate frameworks and bereavement policies to manage the needs of not only the employee concerned but the business and wider workforce.

Tuition Fees

Kevin Hollinrake Excerpts

Wednesday 19th July 2017 Commons Chamber

[James Cartlidge (South Suffolk) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to be called to speak in this debate and a great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Blaydon (Liz Twist). I congratulate her on her maiden speech, which was very moving and powerful, particularly in relation to suicide. We all share her sentiment and hope to see greater progress on that. It is a terrible tragedy that so many still choose to take their own lives.

Having stood on many a football terrace, I am familiar with the Blaydon anthem, but I do not think that the edited lyrics to which I have been subjected are repeatable in this Chamber. I welcome the hon. Lady to the House.

This debate is on an important subject. Having intervened earlier on the shadow Secretary of State, the hon. Member for Ashton-under-Lyne (Angela Rayner), I have great sympathy for her. She has maintained her composure in the face of her party’s policy wobble over historical student debt, but, if we look at what the Leader of the Opposition said to the NME prior to the election, we cannot form any conclusion other than that he wished to wipe out historical student debt. He said that he would “deal with it.” Those were his words. What other conclusion could we form?

The politics of this are quite cynical. Talking about helping students means helping a large number of people, but it is a limited base. Spreading policies to all graduates with historical student debt, however, means appealing to a vast number of people, so to renege on that so clearly is disappointing and deceptive.

Equally, we all have to accept that people are worried about levels of student debt. I have four children and worry about them, should they ever get to university, racking up enormous debts. Who, as a parent and a human being, would not be concerned about that? However, we have to think rationally about the issue.

There are measures that can be used to ameliorate the situation. My right hon. Friend the Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon), the Chairman of the Education Committee, mentioned interest. Of course, student debts are packaged and bought on the basis of securitisation. I want to understand more about how that works, including the redemption penalties and whether it is possible to change those contracts without huge cost to the taxpayer. We would all benefit from knowing more about that. Perhaps my right hon. Friend’s Committee could take evidence on it.

[Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

My hon. Friend makes a strong point about the level of interest on debt and securitisation. He will accept that, because of the high proportion of that debt that is written off, it is in effect a grant, so the interest rate will need to be higher to make it attractive to people who want to take on that security.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Ilford North (Wes Streeting), although I did not concur with all his points. I will address one or two of them in my speech. First, however, let me join others in congratulating the hon. Member for Blaydon (Liz Twist). She made a very touching and well-delivered speech, and it was wonderful to hear about her work in the Samaritans, which—in addition to her work as a Member of Parliament—shows that she is a true public servant. Whatever the public or the media may say, I believe that the vast majority of people who decide to enter the world of parliamentary politics do so because they want to make the world a better place, and it is clear that that is why the hon. Lady is sitting on the green Benches today. I welcome her to the House.

I think that all of us, when we remember our time at school, describe someone as our favourite teacher. Mine was a gentleman called Ken Hudson, my physics teacher. Ken was a pipe-smoking, bespectacled gentleman with a haircut like Ray Reardon’s—hon. Members may remember that he was a snooker player. Ken was definitely my inspiration, although I did not do tremendously well in physics at A-level or at college.

I remember the day we did our physics mock O-level. None of the class did particularly well. Ken walked into our classroom, stood by the blackboard, wiped it down, and just looked at us until we all went very quiet. Then he wrote across the blackboard in chalk, “The world does not owe you a living”. That has stuck with me for 37 years, and it has stuck with my children, too, because I tell them about it an awful lot—the principle that the world does not owe anyone a living. I also tell them that their parents do not owe them a living.

My son, who had just left his sixth form, had to choose whether to go to university or enter the world of work. Was he going to invest in his education? Was he going to university? If a person can provide for themselves at 18, the world does not owe them a living. At that point, it is their decision whether to invest their money—tuition fees and student accommodation away from home—and time. All that would add to my son’s debt in the future. Did he want to spend up to £30,000, £40,000 or £50,000 on his education, which might pay in the future? As we have heard, it could pay up to a quarter of million pounds over a lifetime, so that might have been a sensible choice to make. He decided not to do that, but instead to move into the world of work. Do I think it is right that he, having made that decision, should fund others who choose to go down a different route and enter higher education and university? I do not think it is right that he should have to bear that burden; surely the burden should be carried by those who benefit most from that education.

Of course other people benefit from the fact that our society is better educated, but there is a clear correlation between someone’s education and their investment in it, and the long-term return that they will see from it. A balance needs to be struck; somebody has to pay. We do not have a bottomless pit of money; that is an absolute fact. So who will pay is the key question.

I tried to intervene on the hon. Member for Ilford North (Wes Streeting), because I wanted to ask him a question. He has a very sensible economic perspective. At a time when we are spending £60 billion more every year than we are collecting in taxes, does he honestly feel that the £11.2 billion a year allocated to this policy in the Labour manifesto is the best way to spend that public money at this time, with all the other demands we have, including on our healthcare and our pre-18 education? Does he honestly feel that is the best use of that public money? I do not.

We have to make ends meet in this country, and therefore must choose where to allocate our resources for the best effect. [Interruption.] I am happy to take an intervention, but the point is that the Labour manifesto clearly has £250 billion of extra spending, plus £25 billion a year in infrastructure spending, which is another £125 billion. It would also nationalise the water companies and the railways. That amounts to £500 billion of extra debt. That same manifesto also says that if Labour had been in government they would have reduced the national debt over the course of this Parliament. How is that possible? How does any of this stack up? It is uncosted spending after uncosted spending.

The issue of past student debt was not in the manifesto, of course, but what the Leader of the Opposition said about that is clear, and not every party commitment needs to be in the manifesto for people to have a reasonable degree of expectation that it will be delivered. He said:

“I will deal with those already burdened with student debt.”

That was a clear commitment. So on top of that £500 billion, there is another £111 billion—uncosted debt after uncosted debt. That is the reality, and we cannot carry on like that. We must not go back to the 1970s, which is when I grew up; my household had uncollected rubbish and the TV used to go off at 10 o’clock. I am old enough to remember that, and we will return to it if we do not maintain a sensible economic policy.

It is wrong to think that we on this side of the House are not worried about student debt. Of course I am worried about student debt—both that of the many students across the country, and potentially that of my children, as I have three more children, some of whom might choose to go to university. We should be talking about constructive ways of allowing students to go through university and benefit from higher education without incurring so much debt. One way of doing so would be to have shorter courses. My daughter is looking at a psychology course.

[Joseph Johnson]

My hon. Friend will be pleased to know that the Higher Education and Research Act 2017, enacted on the last day of the last Session, makes it possible for universities to offer shorter courses, such as two-year degrees.

[Kevin Hollinrake]

That is an example of ideas in action, and it is tremendous news. I should have been following that more closely, but—[Interruption.] I see that you want me to conclude, Madam Deputy Speaker, but I will make a couple of quick points, if I may.

We should look at the US system, with its modular courses. Students can also live closer to home and not incur the accommodation and living costs involved in moving away. There are ways to reduce the financial impact on students, but overall this is about choice and who pays for those choices. I believe the burden of the cost should be borne by those who benefit from the education.

Taylor Review: Working Practices

Kevin Hollinrake Excerpts

Tuesday 11th July 2017 Commons Chamber

[Margot James]

I congratulate the right hon. Gentleman on all the work he did on these matters in chairing the Work and Pensions Committee in the last Parliament. I can assure him that minimum wages rates are sacrosanct. There will be no trade-off when it comes to ensuring that everybody is paid at least the minimum wage. When he reads the report, he will be more encouraged. Many of the people who attended the Taylor review’s evidence sessions said that they liked the flexibility of working atypically and that we should not lose that, but that flexibility should not be a one-way street with individuals absorbing all the risk. Although we will consider the recommendations further, I assure the right hon. Gentleman that I very much agree with those sentiments.

[Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

Does the Minister welcome the fact that the review established that the majority of employers follow good practice, and agree that our focus should be on those who do not to ensure that we level the playing field for all employers, all employees and all businesses?

[Margot James]

I agree strongly with my hon. Friend. Employers who choose to break the rules—they are a small minority, but they exist—must expect consequences for their actions. The vast majority of businesses behave properly towards their employees, and they must not find themselves at the wrong end of an uneven playing field.

Oral Answers to Questions

Kevin Hollinrake Excerpts

Tuesday 31st January 2017 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Margot James)]

I am very happy to discuss the case in my own constituency with the hon. Gentleman, but the Pubs Code Adjudicator is doing a good job. His line of inquiry has received 435 inquiries to date and 121 referrals for arbitration, but I will discuss the problem with the hon. Gentleman.

[Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

The industrial strategy makes a clear commitment that future rounds of infrastructure investment will take into account the balance of spending per head as between different regions. On the basis that there is a 60% imbalance between London and the rest of the country at the moment, what balance would the Secretary of State like to see going ahead?

[Greg Clark]

I thank my hon. Friend for his contribution to the consultation. We are very clear that we need to see infrastructure investment in all parts of the country. It is one reason why we have created institutions such as Transport for the North to be able to take those decisions locally.

Corporate Governance

Kevin Hollinrake Excerpts

1st reading: House of Commons
Tuesday 29th November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Greg Clark]

In the consultation, we asked what the cut-off should be. Clearly, there is no intention to capture small businesses in the disclosure requirements that are more appropriate to large businesses. That is something that we will consider as part of the consultation, and I hope that my hon. Friend will contribute to it.

[Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

May I first declare my interest as a non-executive chair of a listed public company before I offer warm support for these proposals? I also echo the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for South Suffolk (James Cartlidge) that employee share ownership schemes have had a transformative effect both in our workplace and on our business success. I ask the Secretary of State to look even closer at those schemes, with the aim of making them easier for businesses to implement.

[Greg Clark]

I will indeed. I am delighted that we have had two suggestions from my hon. Friends for this route. I will take them up, and take them seriously. I hope to make further statements to the House in the future.

Bill Presented

Access to Radiotherapy Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Tim Farron presented a Bill to make provision to improve access to radiotherapy treatment in England; to define access in terms of the time that patients are required to travel to places providing treatment; to specify 45 minutes as the maximum time patients are to travel; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 24 March, and to be printed (Bill 102).

Oral Answers to Questions

Kevin Hollinrake Excerpts

Tuesday 8th November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Margot James]

I certainly agree with the hon. Gentleman that we need to invest more in support for SMEs, and that is precisely what we intend to do in my Department.

[Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

14. What steps his Department is taking to support the growth of businesses in the north of England.

[The Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Greg Clark)]

Our investments in the northern powerhouse continue to support the growth of businesses in the north and are helping to build an economy that works for all.

[Kevin Hollinrake]

Work on Yorkshire’s largest economic project—a potash mine on the North York Moors—and the drilling of the UK’s first shale gas well since 2011 are both planned to commence early in 2017, but much of the associated traffic will travel down a single lane of the A64. Will the Secretary of State agree to meet me and representatives from the Department for Transport and the Treasury to see how we can make sure we have the necessary infrastructure upgrades to support those key economic developments?

[Greg Clark]

It would be a pleasure to meet my hon. Friend. One of the reasons why we have created the local enterprise partnerships and the growth deals is to make sure that the investment in infrastructure can go alongside economic development, and that is a big step forward.

Hinkley Point C

Kevin Hollinrake Excerpts

Thursday 15th September 2016 Commons Chamber

[Greg Clark]

The contract is expressed in pounds. The construction risk is entirely with the investors.

[Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

I welcome the long-term investment in low-carbon energy and the creation of 25,000 jobs. Will the Secretary of State confirm EDF’s commitment to local jobs and to small and medium-sized businesses in the supply chain, such as James Fisher Nuclear in my constituency?

[Greg Clark]

I am sure that that firm will attest to that. The Somerset chamber of commerce was clear that the orders that had already been placed during the preparation of the site have been beneficial to the county.

Oral Answers to Questions

Kevin Hollinrake Excerpts

Tuesday 13th September 2016 Commons Chamber

[Jesse Norman]

Actually, there is remarkably little sign that confidence in the sector is dropping. There is a recognition that those changes had to be made and the sector has responded remarkably resiliently. We must not forget that it has also been spreading expertise in solar internationally, which is another reason for thinking this is a real long-term success story.

[Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

I welcome the new ministerial team to their new roles. Kingspan, a significant employer in my constituency, has contacted me regarding concerns about the revaluation of business rates for cellphone rooftop solar. The result is a sixfold to eightfold increase in rates. Will my hon. Friend agree to meet me and representatives from the company to see how these effects can be mitigated?

Fourth Industrial Revolution

Kevin Hollinrake Excerpts

Thursday 8th September 2016 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Kinnock (Aberavon) (Lab)]

I join colleagues in thanking the hon. Member for Havant (Mr Mak) and my hon. Friend the Member for Hove (Peter Kyle) for all their work to secure the debate. I declare an interest: for three years, from 2009 and 2012, I worked at the World Economic Forum.

The subject of today’s debate was the subject of this year’s Davos meeting: the fourth industrial revolution, an industrial revolution that will be characterised by new forms of renewable energy and the exponential outward expansion of technological innovations, driven by the internet. It is a revolution that will take place as we face severe challenges to our economic future: seemingly ever-increasing inequality; the worst productivity crisis and trade deficit in our country’s history; greatly reduced job security; over-concentration on London as the predominant source of wealth and growth, at the expense of other regions; and over-reliance on the services industries, with manufacturing accounting for an unprecedentedly low share of GDP. Manufacturing is crucial to broadly shared wealth, but we have seen manufacturing as a share of GDP drop from over 30% 40 years ago to under 10% now. That lies at the heart of many of the difficulties—the unbalanced nature of the British economy.

In the aftermath of the EU referendum, each of those challenges is exacerbated by the uncertainty that our economy faces as we negotiate Brexit, given that we do not know what our trading relationship with our largest market will be, and likely will not know for some time. In that difficult context, the fourth industrial revolution, which will completely transform the way we live, will be a defining period for our economy. Will the technology at its heart, left unfettered, entrench the challenges we face, threatening jobs, driving inequality and reducing exportable products as the economy is further limited to services, and further place all the risks and insecurity of the economy on the worker; or will we use the fourth industrial revolution to transform and brighten our economic future for all our people? Can its fusion of digital technology, intelligence and connectivity shape a new economy, with new models of manufacturing, labour relations and skills development that create jobs, raise living standards and allow us to trade with the world in new ways?

Can creating this new economy help us realise our values in society and in our everyday lives?

The answer to those questions is what we make it. We must shape and lead the fourth industrial revolution so that it delivers the society and economy we want for people all across our country. That requires a Government with a vision of what a fourth industrial revolution must look like in order to deliver the outcomes we need and a Government who have an industrial strategy that helps us get there. It requires a Government who take action and take control of our future.

This will require a strategy and plan that rebuilds a new manufacturing sector based on the internet of things, and that creates world-leading products but also delivers a more sustainable form of labour relations. It will require us to take long-term decisions that back British ingenuity and ideas. It will require us matching or exceeding OECD levels of investment in research and development, which is the source of future growth and industry.

As part of this, we must continue Horizon 2020 funding, which does so much to catalyse university research and innovation and transform it into market products. The Government have currently promised to match Horizon funding until 2020, yet even in a fastest possible Brexit scenario that is only one year of matched funding. We must commit for much longer to give universities and innovators the confidence they need, especially in the face of Brexit-fuelled uncertainty, to develop the ideas and intellectual property that will inspire and drive our future in the fourth industrial revolution.

As well as providing this foundation for the catalysts of the fourth industrial revolution, Government must also protect its fruits: British IP, business, manufacturing and supply chains. We simply cannot afford to be hands-off and allow a world-class tech business such as ARM Holdings to be sold to the Japanese. We cannot run a successful, growing economy and secure the investment it needs if we allow our crown jewels to be sold off.

Just in the last year, I have seen the huge difference in impact between a hands-off approach to government and one that is active. The British steel industry, so important to my constituency, has been failed time again by our Government. The Government did not act to block the dumping of state-subsidised Chinese steel, when they could have done. The Government did not encourage investment or profitability by keeping a regressive business rates regime and uncompetitive energy prices. Yet when the Government and the state do step up to shape our future and provide a foundation for our success, British talent can deliver great results.

[Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

The hon. Gentleman mentioned the sale of ARM Holdings to SoftBank. Yesterday we saw the announcement of Micro Focus, a UK business, buying a significant business of Hewlett Packard. Does he think that we should be able to buy businesses internationally, but not be able to sell them internationally?

[Stephen Kinnock]

In my view, we need to reform the Companies Act, placing a clear national interest clause and a method of monitoring and executing that clause, so that we move away from situations such as we saw with Pfizer attempting to take AstraZeneca. I am very thankful that the previous Leader of the Opposition did a great job in preventing that from happening, but it is very ad hoc and we need a national strategy to protect our national assets, particularly where they play such a key role in the research and development that drives the entire economy, and indeed the fourth industrial revolution.

In Aberavon, we have a remarkable company called SPECIFIC that works to turn buildings into power stations. It is developing steel-based coatings for buildings—roofs, walls, glass and so on—which can generate and store their own electricity, and it works. We already have an industrial site in Port Talbot that has been generating all its heat through solar power like this for three years. All of this is done thanks to a partnership between business, universities, industry and, yes, the state. The SPECIFIC project is a living, breathing example of the fourth industrial revolution in action, and it required the proactive support of Government. Without the support of Innovate UK, the EU and the Welsh Assembly Government, this project would not have got off the ground. We will be able to make every region of the UK a leader in the fourth industrial revolution only if the Government see building launch pads for our people and businesses as part of their role, in order to allow them to succeed.

I close by quoting my old boss at the World Economic Forum, Professor Klaus Schwab. He said:

“In its most pessimistic, dehumanized form, the Fourth Industrial Revolution may indeed have the potential to ‘robotize’ humanity and thus to deprive us of our heart and soul. But as a complement to the best parts of human nature—creativity, empathy, stewardship—it can also lift humanity into a new collective and moral consciousness based on a shared sense of destiny.”

That is the prize of the fourth industrial revolution, but only if we make it so.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

It is always a pleasure to speak with you in the Chair, Madam Deputy Speaker.

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Havant (Mr Mak) on securing this very important debate and on his motion, which notes the importance of small and medium-sized businesses, the huge contribution they make and their expertise. The motion also calls on the Government to

“continue introducing and supporting policies that keep the UK at the forefront of this revolution”.

I wish to add to that, as I think we will need policies that support small businesses and let them take advantage of these opportunities in the future.

I welcome the opportunities that this industrial revolution will bring, but I have niggling concerns. I will always be a champion in this Chamber for small business, having set up my own business in 1992 and then several technology businesses later on, with varying degrees of success. Business is a huge opportunity for this nation and for individuals, and it can transform the lives of people right across this land, whatever their background. There is also an opportunity for the consumer here, of course, as this technology revolution in particular is transforming the way in which consumers shop and travel, and how they can socialise. We need to look at how some of these channels will be dominated by huge businesses and at the potential opportunities—or even the lack of opportunities, which I am most concerned about—within their supply chains for small business.

Let me touch briefly on the pipes that we need. My hon. Friend the Member for Wells (James Heappey) talked about ensuring that the country has the right infrastructure, and this is about mobile phone communication—not just 4G but 5G—and our broadband. We do not want a sticking-plaster approach, because we need to get fibre not just to cabinets, but right through to premises. Only 2% of premises in the UK have a fibre-to-the-premises connection, which is the futureproof solution that we need. In Spain, the figure is 60%. I have welcomed the Government’s £1.7 billion investment in this area in the past, particularly for rural areas, as it has made life much easier for many of my constituents and businesses. Nevertheless, I fear that we will hit the same bottlenecks in five and 10 years’ time unless we step up our investment.

[Jesse Norman]

Did my hon. Friend note the brilliant report on broadband that the Culture, Media and Sport Committee published in July, which highlighted the underinvestment by BT in the national broadband network that independent experts estimate to be in the region of hundreds of millions of pounds a year? That is directly attributable to the way in which BT’s investment policy is carried out, and it is to the detriment of shareholders.

[Kevin Hollinrake]

My hon. Friend hits on one of my favourite topics: the culture of corporate obfuscation that we get from BT and its willingness to underinvest to maximise profitability. We absolutely need to get BT to up its game. I agree with Ofcom, which says that one solution is to open up the ducts and poles to other operators. Perhaps in future, when there are bidding rounds for Government investment, local authorities or the delivery authorities should themselves be held responsible for ensuring that third-party operators—smaller operators—get access to those ducts and poles in the local areas for which money has been committed.

The Government are supporting small businesses and innovations in many ways. As the Minister mentioned, there has been a 38% increase in investment in Innovate UK since 2010. Research and development tax credits have a hugely beneficial effect on companies that want to invest in new technologies. The enterprise investment scheme has unlocked investor capital for new start-up businesses and made such businesses possible on the back of these tax concessions. I support the retention and perhaps expansion of the concessions to make sure that we get new businesses to take advantage of these opportunities.

The failure rate for high-tech businesses is very high, but investors will countenance that because the rewards are also very high. Investors know that it is almost a winner-takes-all bet. They know that if they get it right, they can land themselves with an Amazon, a Google, an Uber, an Apple, or even a Rightmove or a Zoopla. In many sectors, there is either no competition or competition from just one other body, which puts those businesses in a hugely advantageous position.

In some areas of technology, business inevitably wins, and the other thing that will inevitably win is the machine. I spent my summer holidays reading a very interesting book by Matt Richtel called “A Deadly Wandering”, which talks about the ability of machines to multi-task. Richtel talks about the cocktail party effect. He describes a person in a conversation at a cocktail party. He says that it is not possible for them to listen to another conversation if they are truly engaged in their own conversation, as they can only do one thing at a time. Apparently, they can recognise their name being mentioned, but that is about it. Computers, on the other hand, can do millions of things at the same time, and they can do them better. A new computer called AlphaGo was built to try to beat the world champion of the game Go. That is not just a game of logic, but a game of intuition, yet the computer beat the world champion Lee Sedol five times in a row. The computer hones its own skills. So machines will win and big business will win.

The biggest worry I have about some of the businesses that will win in the future is their ability to dominate the entire supply chain. Uber is a good example. When it first came along, we saw it as just something that connected people who wanted a taxi with people who were taxi drivers. Uber has been clear that in the future it wants to be the taxi driver as well. In fact, it does not want any taxi drivers; it will have autonomous vehicles, and will no doubt link up with huge car manufacturers. Toyota, Nissan and other companies are looking at this. Uber will be end to end, taking away small business opportunities from taxi drivers, delivery drivers and HGV drivers.

[Tom Tugendhat]

My hon. Friend is making a persuasive point. There will be a challenge to not only small businesses, but large businesses. After all, if someone can hail a cab for nothing at all, why would they own a car?

--- Later in debate ---

[Kevin Hollinrake]

There are huge challenges ahead.

The situation is similar with Amazon, of course. Small businesses used to engage on the Amazon platform. A small business driver would pick up goods and take them to their destination; in future that will be done by autonomous vehicles and drones. Amazon will completely dominate the supply chain, so where is a small business opportunity there?

In previous industrial revolutions, opportunities were created for small businesses—people repaired the looms and sold clothes to the people who had new well-paid jobs. I must disagree with the hon. Member for Inverclyde (Ronnie Cowan), who said that people had not benefited from the industrial revolution. Clearly living standards today are much higher than before the industrial revolution. Nevertheless, future opportunities for small businesses are a concern.

[James Heappey]

My hon. Friend is making an excellent speech. Does he agree that both for private residents and for businesses, if one of the characteristics of this industrial revolution is the pursuit of a zero marginal cost for energy, communications and transport, the reduction of those costs could give small businesses, large businesses and private citizens alike a great opportunity to enter a marketplace without those barriers to entry?

[Kevin Hollinrake]

My hon. Friend makes a good case. In California, people are experimenting with something called a digital dividend. The money that is being made is paid back to people in the form of a dividend for which they do not have to work, but work is important. We want the opportunities; we want the work. We do not want to be redundant, sitting at home while machines do all the work for us. We must make sure that we make the most of the opportunities.

These advantages are locked in, as are tax advantages. The businesses that dominate these technologies are multinational companies that know how to work their way through the system. They circumvent corporation tax and also, arguably, circumvent employment laws. They also circumvent existing businesses and supply chains.

I am not King Canute trying to hold back the tide—this is an inevitability. We cannot resist this change, but the House must develop policies that create a level playing field and also opportunities. We must ensure that our tax system is fit for purpose for the challenges ahead and as we deal with multinational corporations. We must also support the growth of other industries that may spring up on the back of new opportunities that will inevitably be created. We must make sure that we use the opportunities available to us to keep opportunities open for small business.