Energy Security Strategy

Mark Hendrick Excerpts

Tuesday 19th April 2022 Commons Chamber

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

We are in constant conversation about this. It was a hard-earned win for the Government, and we are very pleased to be backing steel. My hon. Friend knows of my commitment to the industry. We have won some battles, and I look forward to engaging with him on this in the future.

[Sir Mark Hendrick (Preston) (Lab/Co-op)]

Mr Deputy Speaker, you will know, as a Lancashire MP, that the people of Lancashire are fed up to the back teeth with fracking. As the Secretary of State knows, the moratorium came in 2019 because Lancashire was experiencing tremors measuring 8 on the Richter scale. It was a safety measure, because we were worried about safety. It was nothing to do with the wholesale gas price, so please, Secretary of State, do not come out with that now.

[Kwasi Kwarteng]

There was drilling, and I remember it well. When I was the Energy Minister, I was receiving daily updates on the Richter scale, and yes, there were moments—there were times—when the level exceeded the limit that we had imposed. I think it entirely legitimate now, given where gas prices are, to look again at some of the evidence.

Business to Business Selling

Mark Hendrick Excerpts

Tuesday 19th April 2022 Westminster Hall

[Sir Mark Hendrick (in the Chair)]

I will call Mark Pawsey to move the motion and then I will call the Minister to respond. As is the convention for 30-minute debates, there will not be an opportunity for the Member in charge to wind up.

[Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered business to business selling and encouraging jobs and growth.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Mark. I am delighted to have finally secured this important debate to consider the importance of business-to-business selling, which I will refer to as B2B; why there needs to be a selling revolution; and what needs to be done to upskill the B2B sales workforce—particularly in small and medium-sized enterprises—and to encourage more people to train in B2B selling. Finally, I will set out some measures that the Government could take to encourage professional sales both at home and abroad.

This debate was prompted by my chairmanship of the all-party parliamentary group for professional sales and by my 25 years’ experience of selling. Like most people who end up in sales, I had no intention of becoming a salesperson. Few people set out to make that their career path, but they end up there through other routes. As a business-to-business salesperson, I spent 25 years driving the motorways of Britain to talk to my customers and understand their needs. As a manager of B2B salespeople, I helped my sales team to win business, grow the business I was working for and drive prosperity.

It is with the benefit of that personal experience that I argue that the UK would not function without business-to-business selling. It is a huge and important part of the economy. In many businesses there is a saying: “Nothing gets made until a salesperson has taken an order.” That is the importance of the sector. Since I left the profession to come to Westminster 12 years ago, the job has become more demanding: it requires deep product knowledge but always with a high need for customer insight, empathy, communication skills, collaborative working, strategy and critical thinking.

Why is selling to business important? It is important to the economy and to create wealth, and it supports 10 million jobs. It is skilled work, and it was recently re-categorised as a profession by the Office for National Statistics. That upgrade in status was based on evidence that the majority of B2B sales job postings call for a degree and five years’ experience. It is an important fact that 80% of UK businesses make part or all of their turnover from selling to other businesses.

Nuclear Fuel Manufacturing

Mark Hendrick Excerpts

Tuesday 7th September 2021 Westminster Hall

[Sir Mark Hendrick (Preston) (Lab/Co-op)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Fylde (Mark Menzies) on securing this important debate at such a critical time, when we need to secure a carbon-free UK as soon as possible.

The UK’s civil nuclear sector is among the most advanced in the world. Fuel production, generation, new build, and research through to decommissioning are key components of that. They provide tens of thousands of highly-skilled jobs, many in the north-west, particularly in Lancashire near my constituency of Preston, where fuel production is concentrated.

Nuclear power is one of the largest and most reliable sources of low-carbon energy and electricity in the UK. It has an essential role to play in the transition to net zero. The UK currently has only one new power station under construction. Without rapid progress, we will have what is referred to as a nuclear gap. The nuclear gap currently means that the UK’s only domestic nuclear fuel manufacturer, Springfields in Lancashire, is facing a very uncertain future. It was a pleasure to meet the trade unions on College Green today and discuss the problems that the industry faces. It was nice to see them and great that they are fighting for the industry in the way that they are.

The UK has something like 15 existing reactors, generating about a fifth of the electricity in the UK, with 13 others at various stages of construction or planning. The majority are due to reach the end of their operating lives and be shut down before 2030. In September 2016, the Government gave the final go-ahead to Hinckley Point C, which will be the first new nuclear power station for a generation. There is no doubt that we need new build if we are to have that carbon-free future.

A new nuclear sector deal was passed in the Government’s industrial strategy, and £200 million was promised by the Government to support the industry. However, since then, major events have put that future in doubt. In November 2018, there was a collapse of private sector support for a new plant at Moorside. In 2019, the Hitachi project at Wylfa in north Wales was suspended, which cast doubt on the future of nuclear plants per se. I know that the Government have consulted on alternative finance models for the new reactors and are currently in negotiations with EDF about a new nuclear plant, but it is essential that they give these industries that firm support—the hundreds of millions of pounds that was talked about originally—so that the jobs and technology remain in this country.

A number of factors have contributed to the decline in construction. Obviously, up-front costs are a big barrier, but once they are out of the way, it starts to look far more viable. The meltdown of Fukushima, the closure of THORP—the thermal oxide reprocessing plant—and nuclear waste disposal are all problems that are being overcome and, with further research and development, can be overcome, I think, in a reasonable time.

A push for faster action on nuclear is needed, which includes bringing forward legislation for the new funding model. Springfields, as the hon. Member for Fylde said, is the UK’s only civil nuclear manufacturing site. It is a source of high-value employment in the north-west and is critical, along with aerospace, to the Lancashire economy moving towards a carbon-neutral future. That carbon-neutral future is at risk. There is a possibility of anything up to 120 redundancies at the site, which currently employs around 800 people and supports around 4,000 jobs across the wider supply chain. Prospect and Unite, the trade unions, have since said that axing more than 10 roles would put that carbon-neutral future at serious risk. The Government urgently need to bring forward a mixed-energy policy, which should include carbon-free nuclear.

In addition, nuclear technology plays a part in many other areas, particularly in industry and higher education. Some universities across the UK are offering courses related to the nuclear industry, including my local university, the University of Central Lancashire. The National College for Nuclear is a cornerstone of the Government’s policy. Courses are being offered by five education providers, including two near my constituency of Preston, at Lancaster & Morecambe College and the Lakes College in west Cumbria.

I also understand that an advanced nuclear skills and innovation campus, which has an eight-month pilot launch from June this year, is now based at the Springfields site, with leaders from industry and academia, including UCLan, the University of Manchester and the University of Sheffield. I was pleased to hear the right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Liz Saville Roberts) refer to Mike Tynan. I have known Mike for years, from when he was based at Springfields. I understand he is now at the University of Sheffield, which I am sure is not unknown to you, Mr Betts. UCLan also offers modules on decommissioning waste and environment management on the nuclear fuels cycle.

There is a lot of controversy around the industry at the moment concerning the involvement of China and China General Nuclear, which owns a significant stake in Hinkley Point C, and our involvement with France. One thing is certain: we have to co-operate with China to develop a carbon-free world. China is a huge country with a huge population and must be part of the solution, not just seen as a problem, as in the case of the very poor debate and decision over Huawei. We can either stay in the 20th century or move forward, with partners such as China and France, who have got so much to offer the industries. In conclusion, investing in new nuclear is a no-brainer, so let us get on with it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alan Brown]

I have to admit that there is not absolute certainty, but it is predicted that the first key carbon capture and storage plant could be up and running before another nuclear power station will be constructed. We are getting very close to the final investment decisions on these carbon capture and storage plants. That in itself will give the market an indication of where that is going. We will be looking at the next year or two for the final investment decisions.

Turning to the recent history of the nuclear sector in the UK, it is obvious there has been a market failure as well as a failure of Government strategy. Clearly, that has impacted Springfields in the demand for nuclear fuel. Hinkley point C is the most expensive nuclear project in the world. When the right hon. Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May) became Prime Minister, she threatened a U-turn on this project, but then caved in and signed the deal anyway. The cost for Hinkley is now estimated at £22.5 billion, which is an increase of 25% on the estimated cost when the deal was signed. The Government tell us that cost increases are tied up in the risk and that EDF carries that burden. The reality is that no company can afford losses of £4.5 billion or 25% of the original cost estimates, so electricity bill payers must be paying for it somewhere along the line.

The sign-off for Hinkley was supposed to send signals to the market to allow other sites to be developed to generate competition and bring down prices. Since then, we know that Toshiba has walked away from developing Moorside and Hitachi pulled out of Wylfa and Oldbury. The good news for us electricity bill payers is that £50 billion to £60 billion of expenditure has not been committed. From a UK Government perspective, that should have been the realisation that their nuclear aspirations were in tatters. Unfortunately for Springfields, that is three pipeline projects that they could have accessed now lost. Worse, Hinkley point C is now predicted to come online in June 2026 instead of 2025, but it is a possible 15 months away on top of that, so it could be September 2027 before unit 1 of Hinkley comes online. We will have to bear in the mind that the European Pressurised Water Reactors system has still not been shown to be successful. Flamanville in France is expected to generate in 2024—12 years late. Finland’s project is due to come on to the grid next year, but that is 13 years late.

[Sir Mark Hendrick]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Alan Brown]

I have to watch my time, I apologise. I can come back maybe. Taishan in China was held up as an exemplar when it went online, but it has now been taken offline because of safety concerns. If China General Nuclear Power Corporation is involved at Hinkley and the consortium for Sizewell, the fact that Taishan has got safety concerns should be ringing alarm bells for the Government. We talk about energy security, but the reality is that we have a reliance on France’s state-owned company EDF and on China’s state-owned company China General Nuclear Power Corporation. That kind of blows our energy security argument. I have not heard any answers alternative to that in here.

[Sir Mark Hendrick]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Alan Brown]

Very briefly.

[Sir Mark Hendrick]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way. He consistently mentions France. President Macron recently said that by generating more than 41% of the energy in France, “nuclear makes us autonomous”. Macron also said,

“It preserves French purchasing power, with a kilowatt-hour 40% cheaper than our European neighbours.”

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Whitehead]

The hon. Gentleman himself mentioned that Hinkley C is coming on stream in 2026—maybe even later than that. I will come to the arrival of Sizewell C in a moment, which is probably at the heart of his questions, should we develop modular nuclear reactors that are even further off.

[Sir Mark Hendrick]

When does my hon. Friend think that carbon capture and storage will be done at any significant scale in this country?

[Dr Whitehead]

I try to set myself a self-denying ordinance of not straying too far into wider issues such as firm power, but I would say that carbon capture and storage is very well developed already, and is up and running. I have actually been to see a carbon capture and storage plant operating at full scale in Canada.

However, it is not a question of whether carbon capture and storage can actually do the work, and it is not that the technology has not been developed to make carbon capture and storage perform the entire chain of activities—sequestration, storage, transport, and so on. It can do all those well and at scale; that has already been proven. It is a question of how quickly we can develop carbon capture and storage and put it into operations, so that it works from the day they start, with carbon capture and storage on the back of them, rather than developing operations that are carbon capture and storage-ready, but where carbon capture and storage is not on the back of that process. That is really a question of planning and investment, more than anything else, but it needs to be done in the right place at the right time. That is the end of my diversion.

The issue for Springfields nuclear fuel, therefore, is that there is clearly a substantial valley of death before what Springfields can reasonably expect for its work for the future. If we leave it at that, it is inevitable that, even if it eventually survives that gap and comes through well in the end, that may well be at the cost of all the skills in that organisation and most of the workforce; and, at a time when Springfields’ services absolutely will be required in the national interest, its ability to spring back may well have expired in the meantime.

As a country, we cannot let that happen. I therefore congratulate the unions, Prospect and Unite, for campaigning strongly for that view of Springfields as a company. It is beholden on the Government to take that view as seriously as the workforce do—and, I think, all of us in this Chamber do—in their responses and reactions to this particular issue.

When looking at the nuclear sector deal that was signed in 2018, I was interested by this statement from the Government on securing fuel capabilities:

“We will work with the UK nuclear fuel industry to ensure continued, commercial operation of their facilities and secure the long-term future of these important UK strategic national assets to deliver future energy security as well as ensuring the UK nuclear fuel industry continues to deliver long-term UK economic benefit”.

That is what they committed themselves to in the nuclear sector deal. However, as far as I know, nothing has yet been done about that.

Therefore, my first question to Government is: does the Minister intend that that nuclear sector deal commitment will actually be carried out? Are the Government looking seriously at ways in which Springfields nuclear fuels can be properly supported during this period of its existence and assured of remaining in existence as we move to whatever the next stage of our UK nuclear programme is?

My second issue is also important. Are the Government serious about moving on the programme for the already existing nuclear facilities and bringing in arrangements to give greater certainty on the development of Sizewell C? I refer to what hon. Members have also mentioned this afternoon: the regulated asset base arrangement or similar. If the Government do not like that arrangement, an alternative could give certainty to the development of Sizewell C in the next period. As I am sure the Minister knows, there is a row going on between Departments about whether the regulated asset base should be introduced for Sizewell C. That needs resolving. Something needs to come out shortly to get that programme under way. That is also relevant to the future of Springfields nuclear fuels in the way I have described it this afternoon.

I have two direct questions for the Minister, both relating to the future of Springfields nuclear fuels, which we want to see secured. We want to make sure that the Government play a full role in securing that future, so that we can say that that national asset is in good shape and in good hands. In passing, there is a question mark about the future ownership of Springfields nuclear fuels. As a national asset, perhaps it should be a Government agency, so that we can secure its activities for the future in a way that befits its importance to the country.

Retail Strategy

Mark Hendrick Excerpts

Wednesday 10th July 2019 Westminster Hall

[Sir Mark Hendrick (Preston) (Lab/Co-op)]

Like many hon. Members present, I have seen my main retail high street, Fishergate in Preston city centre, lose many top brands. They are being replaced by charity shops, betting shops, tattoo parlours and vaping shops. I recently met the leader of Preston City Council and impressed on him the need for a retail strategy in Preston. That needs to happen in councils up and down the country; as my hon. Friend points out, the Government are not going to do it for them. I really fear for the future of our towns and centres and for their ability to retain retail.

[Liz Twist]

Indeed. One of the Housing, Communities and Local Government Committee’s findings was that local authorities have an important part to play in ensuring the future of our high streets. I very much welcome my hon. Friend’s engagement with his local authority to ensure that it takes measures to improve what will be a changing high street, but a lively one.

Returning to the industrial strategy, I do not believe that retail has been given enough focus. I am aware that the Retail Sector Council has been set up, with representatives from the industry liaising with the Government, and that a number of workstreams have been drawn up and are already producing work. However, I fear that what we are doing in those workstreams is looking at the detail of current problems, rather than doing what we need to do, which is to produce a longer term strategy and vision to build and strengthen the retail sector, addressing the challenges we know about and those that may yet come, which we need to scan the horizon for.

There have been some examinations recently of the situation faced by high streets in particular—of course, high streets are one part of the retail sector, but not the whole part. I have already referred to the report by the Housing, Communities and Local Government Committee, which is called “High streets and town centres in 2030”. As we have heard today, many such reports have identified the current business rates system as a real problem and noted the huge disparity in costs between online businesses and shops, including the rents that shops pay. Clearly, that is not the only issue, but when many of us heard about the online tax in the Chancellor’s last Budget statement, we thought it would be a means of addressing this problem of the disparity between online businesses and physically present businesses and shops.

--- Later in debate ---

[John Howell (Henley) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir David. It is also a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Blaydon (Liz Twist). She has highlighted the structural changes that are occurring in our high streets. She is right to point out that the retail sector employs a lot of people and is therefore extremely important. It is also fair to point out that rent and rates play their part.

I want to stress the structural changes, which the hon. Lady hinted at, and the move away from face-to-face to online shopping, which we are all doing. In those circumstances, a retail strategy is very difficult to bottom out. It is very difficult to come to a view on how an overall strategy should be managed, because the decline that is occurring takes place in different ways in different businesses. I will illustrate that in a moment.

I want to make some general points about things that might help. To start with, I welcome the future high streets fund. It is a much better way of facing the future, rather than harking back to the past and “how things always were”. If we look around the country, there are a number of different councils that are doing things in different ways. Great Yarmouth, for example, is developing cultural quarters as a way of encouraging businesses and people into the centre of town. It is all about the creation of place. Others, including Henley, see themselves more as events destinations; the Henley regatta has just finished. It is interesting to note that shopkeepers in Henley always have a difficult view on the regatta; they claim that when it is on, they lose business because young people are all tied up in the regatta and cannot go shopping.

[Sir Mark Hendrick]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman that city centres have to look at other offers as well as retail to help enliven them. Preston has tried to do that through leisure. Unfortunately, the major business interest that was driving the leisure offer has just gone bankrupt. On the future high streets fund, Preston, a city that is much in need, has just had its bid rejected. That is not good enough. These little pots of money are put there to act as sticking plaster for town centres.

[John Howell]

The future high streets fund is looking at how high streets can be transformed for the future, not harking back to how things were done in the past. It is looking at imaginative schemes to take things forward. Two things that the future high streets fund grants funding for are improving transport access to town centres, which is absolutely crucial—if people cannot get in and out, the town centre is likely to die—and increasing vehicle and pedestrian flows, which follows on from that. That is a major improvement for the functioning of our town centres.

I have two examples of different types of business that are handled in different ways. The first is pubs. The reduction in the number of pubs has been going on for a number of years, for many reasons—we all seem to want to reduce our alcohol consumption for health reasons; there are the changes in the law on smoking, although they have largely worked their way out; there is a case for saying that many pubs have not got over the recession and are still struggling; and there is also the pricing of alcohol, which means it is often much cheaper to drink at home than in the pub. Alongside that, however, employment in pubs and bars has remained quite steady, and has even increased slightly, which needs to be considered in parallel.

My second example is banks. The decline in banks has been going on for 30 years. It is even more significant now with the rise in online banking. I have probably not visited a bank in two or three years—I do all my banking online because it is much more convenient to do that.

My final point is about the integration of housing in the mix. It is important to try to get people to live in the centre of our towns again, so that there is a mix of retail and living accommodation. In my role as Government champion for neighbourhood planning, I will give an example. The town of Thame had about 700 houses earmarked in its neighbourhood plan. It deliberately chose to spread them around the outskirts of the city rather than to have a big development at one end of the town, which would have meant creating a new area and a new shopping area. The reason it spread that housing all round the town was to increase the flow into the centre of town. That is a very good example, which I would endorse, to everyone who is looking to sort out how their towns are organised for the future.

Home Insulation

Mark Hendrick Excerpts

Wednesday 24th October 2018 Commons Chamber

[Sir Mark Hendrick (Preston) (Lab/Co-op)]

I rise to bring to the Government’s attention their approach to detrimental home insulation issues. I am pleased to have secured the debate to talk about the terrible conditions suffered by some of my constituents who live in the Fishwick area of Preston. The source of their complaints is work first carried out between January and June 2013.

The work was a Government scheme aimed at improving the thermal efficiency of homes by providing wall insulation. The aim, of course, was to lower heating bills in properties where many people were likely to be suffering from fuel poverty. The Fishwick area is one of the poorer areas of the city of Preston and the success of this scheme should have been very important to improve the lives of these people. The funding for this scheme was secured in September 2012 from InterGen, the managing agent for the scheme was Anesco, and the contractor for the scheme was called Ecogen. In total, 387 properties in Fishwick had work carried out as part of this scheme.

As I said earlier, the work was completed in June 2013, and in October that year, tragically, Ecogen was liquidated. By December 2013, the complaints started to flood in. By January 2014, the complaints were referred to the managing agent, Anesco. By March 2014, the complaints were referred to Ofgem.

Between March and December 2014, Ofgem undertook an investigation into the scheme. In December 2014, Ofgem decided to issue an enforcement order to have the work rectified. By April 2015, independent surveys were carried out by the energy partnership with a view to rectifying the work. By August 2015 a second set of independent surveys were carried out and, at the same time, the entire scheme was referred to what was then the Department of Energy and Climate Change. This was complemented by the Bonfield review, which was launched in 2015 by DECC in the wake of the failure of the green deal. The purpose of the review was to examine and make recommendations about how consumers can be protected and advised when installing energy efficiency and renewable energy measures in their homes.

By this time, of course, it was clear that the residents of the 387 homes in the Fishwick area had been living in substandard conditions for three years, with properties suffering from damp, fungus and mushroom development on the walls at various times throughout the year. They were living in extreme humidity because of the way in which the cladding attached to the building had contained water and allowed it to accumulate for long periods inside the building. Quite apart from the humidity and smell being extremely uncomfortable for the residents, it was also a health hazard that resulted in complaints of illness from various residents of the properties.

On 5 February 2016, I was made aware of these problems for the first time at a public meeting held at the Sahara community centre in Fishwick, following which I emailed the right hon. Member for Hastings and Rye (Amber Rudd), who was then the Secretary of State at DECC, to ask her to make funding available as a matter of urgency as well as an emergency fund to deal with water ingress. I then received a response from the noble Lord Bourne, who said in his letter of 17 March 2016 that in such cases complaints should be referred to a local citizens advice bureau or Ofgem. It is understandable that Ofgem should be involved, but how on earth can the citizens advice bureau help? It was clear from my letter to the Secretary of State and the attachment that the contractor, Ecogen, had been liquidated and it was therefore not just a simple case of going back to the contractor and getting them to put the work right. Special help was required to help put right the defective work.

As a result of my persistence, in early June 2016, I received an email from the National Energy Action fuel poverty charity that stated that a total pot of £2.5 million could be made available to Preston City Council to assist people trapped in the scheme if Preston City Council was prepared to take on the role of managing the remedial work. Unfortunately, the NEA had to contact me on the matter because it had yet to receive any response from the city council. I later found out that one of the council officers had sat on the letter from the NEA and not referred the matter to either the chief executive at the time, Lorraine Norris, or the councillors for the Fishwick ward. I believe that this was because the council officer concerned was reluctant to take on the role of managing the remedial work and therefore did not pass on the correspondence from the fuel poverty charity.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The hon. Gentleman is raising a specific point about his constituency, but I want to refer briefly if I may to Northern Ireland, where the fuel poverty figures have dropped by some 22%. That is in no small part due to the Northern Ireland sustainable energy programme, or NISEP, which ring-fences some 80% of funding specifically to help vulnerable and low-income families install efficiency measures in their homes. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that working alongside housing associations in Northern Ireland and with NISEP would be something the Minister could consider and an excellent way of ensuring that vulnerable people could install efficiency measures in their own homes and get the help to which he is referring?

[Sir Mark Hendrick]

I concur with the hon. Gentleman. Whether it is with Northern Ireland authorities or with our own Government, there is no reason why there should not be good co-operation and good insulation schemes. That is what I would have expected with these 387 houses in my constituency.

In the meantime, I requested a meeting with the Secretary of State on the matter, as a matter of urgency. Except for a very brief encounter in the House of Commons Tea Room, when the Secretary of State said that she was looking into the matter as she passed me by, she seemed uninterested in the case and reluctant to discuss the matter. She did, however, refer me to an official, who then assured me that Preston City Council was working with the NEA fuel poverty charity. However, what the Department did not know was that this was the case only because of my direct intervention and contact with the chief executive of Preston City Council at the time, because, as I said earlier, the council officer had sat on the letter from the NEA.

By July 2016, the chief executive was indicating that she needed extra funding in order to carry out surveys to get a “detailed picture of issues”, so clearly the £2.5 million was not enough to deal with the problems, and in fact was only to be targeted at those homes which had complained about the work—62 of the 387 homes. That did not take account of the fact that many of the other homes had problems, but because the residents thought that people in other properties were complaining on their behalf as well, they did not come forward and make their direct complaints. Therefore, the fact that work was to be carried out on the 62 properties only, neglected all the work that needed to be carried out on the other affected properties, whose residents, for a variety of reasons, had not come forward and made their own complaints. That was, in my view, totally unjust and short-sighted.

On 24 November 2016, I emailed the Secretary of State at the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills—the right hon. Member for Tunbridge Wells (Greg Clark)—to ask what assurances and safeguards were in place to ensure that the properties would be safe, dry and warm, and that any installations would be done in a professional manner. In December 2016, BIS responded, asking for more detail. In January 2017, my office contacted BIS to ask what detail it required. My office staff were told that the policy team would get in touch. We waited and waited, and the policy team did not get in touch. However, work was already under way on the 62 properties, which were designated as phase 1. Those properties that were left were designated as phase 2 and the residents were told that they would be surveyed. However, there was no indication from any organisation as to how or if funding would be made available for phase 2.

In the meantime, I received an email from Councillor Martyn Rawlinson of Preston City Council, telling me that the management of the repairs on the 62 houses was as bad as the original work that was carried out. Some of the houses had been left half done for several months. E.ON originally said that all repairs necessary would be done, but E.ON was then saying that homeowners should get their own insurers to get the work completed, which was outrageous—an absolute disgrace—and by then the residents had been putting up with this nonsense for four years, with many of them having work done twice to their property, and still not to their satisfaction.

By 29 November 2017, I was ready to let E.ON know about my concerns over the progression of the remedial works, and asked it for a timescale setting out when all the works would be carried out and completed, and for a point of contact to be established for the residents. My office chased E.ON for a response for over a month, and a month later—January 2018—we finally received correspondence. E.ON confirmed that it was trying to divert attention from its responsibilities in the matter towards Preston City Council, which had no direct responsibility, and still has no direct responsibility, for the work to be carried out. It is E.ON that surveyed the houses in August 2017 for phase 2 of the repairs. I am told that those so-called “surveys” were in fact not proper surveys, but door-knocking exercises to ask people whether they were having problems, or had had problems previously; nothing at all was done of a technical nature, and certainly nothing that could generate a work order to remedy what problems they were having. In addition there is not, and has not been, any indication from the Government or E.ON of how the rest of the work for the 300-plus houses will be financed. We are seeing good will, but nothing in the way of resources to complete the work.

On 11 February I received an email from Councillor Martyn Rawlinson, with photographs of some horrific scenes within houses due to the damp issues. It is inconceivable that people should be left to live in such conditions, with no one apparently willing to rectify the problems as soon as possible.

On 8 March this year, I wrote to the Under-Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government, the hon. Member for South Derbyshire (Mrs Wheeler), describing my disappointment with the then Secretary of State and the Department, and appealing for help. On 27 March I received a response from the Under-Secretary telling me that the responsibility had moved from her Department to the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy.

I tabled a series of parliamentary questions to BEIS about the use of cladding on properties. That culminated in a letter from BEIS indicating that remedial work on 62 of the properties should be completed shortly, and that E-ON was in discussions with National Energy Action to help other households. In the meantime I received a variety of complaints from the residents, one claiming to have spent £1,500 after a ceiling caved in after wet weather. In a separate case, an elderly homeowner had to leave her property and move in with her son because the damp was affecting her health.

Since then, the Minister for Energy and Clean Growth has responded to my parliamentary question, PQ177184, indicating that the retrofit on 62 of the properties was completed in the summer of this year and that work has been carried out to estimate the extent of the work that is necessary to sort out the work required to the other properties. As I said earlier, that resulted in questions being asked on the doorstep. In addition, talks have been taking place between Ofgem, BEIS and the energy suppliers in an attempt to secure funding for the remaining houses.

This saga has been running for six years, from 2012 to where we are now, in October 2018. It has been an absolute tragedy for those living in those 387 houses, who have been trying to put up with substandard housing and great inconvenience. The result has been unsafe properties with associated health risks. In the meantime, I am reliably informed that in many cases the cladding has been removed, but properties have been left with holes in the walls. The landlord has said that they will be finishing off the work, but will only repair the holes and paint the brickwork. They are not prepared to install any new insulation. One of the complainants wonders where the money has gone for the work that should have been done to her property. The landlord has told her that she should speak to E.ON or Preston City Council.

Let me tell the Minister that I recall spending three years in the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs as Parliamentary Private Secretary to the then Environment Secretary, the right hon. Member for Derby South (Margaret Beckett). During that time, when my party was in government, we dealt with fuel poverty issues through the Warm Front scheme, which was applied to about 10,000 homes in my constituency, particularly in the area of Deepdale. The scheme focused on energy efficiency by installing new central heating boilers and providing loft insulation and double glazing for terraced housing that was not too different from the housing that we see in Fishwick ward. It was extremely effective, and popular with residents.

May I ask the Minister why the more recent schemes that are using cladding of the type mentioned in Fishwick are being employed when the detriment to both property and residents is known? Why has it taken six years to get to where we are now for the residents of Fishwick? Are the Government willing to help to direct the residents to a satisfactory and available source of finance to rescue what is, in fact, a Government scheme?

[Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab)]

I was in that Department during the period of the last Labour Government. One of the things that is absent here is enforcement, but, more important, if there is a Government scheme and the Government are subsidising it, there should be a list of approved quality builders, perhaps with certifications. I have also found, in isolated cases with which I have dealt, that it is mainly elderly people who cannot get redress. They are told to go to the council, but the trading standards offices are undermanned, and they have limited powers under the law. Should we not do something about some of those matters?

[Sir Mark Hendrick]

I agree with my hon. Friend. When I was in DEFRA there were recommended contractors. Those contractors could ensure a certain level of quality and even though we got the odd complaint from people under the Warm Front scheme, we did not get anything like the number of complaints or the state of the work that we get now. Unfortunately, the company in question has gone into liquidation, but the Government should still look at how they can help.

Why have the residents of Fishwick had to endure this substandard work and why has it not been rectified properly despite the fact that the contracting company, Ecogen, went into liquidation soon after that work was completed? Why do the Government not concentrate on energy-efficient boilers, loft insulation and double glazing? The Minister might well tell me that in other areas they are concentrating on those solutions, but then why is there this move towards cladding—an ugly and harmful solution?

I am thankful for securing this debate and look forward to hearing the answers to my questions from the Minister.

[The Minister for Energy and Clean Growth (Claire Perry)]

I am genuinely interested to hear the comments of the hon. Member for Preston (Sir Mark Hendrick) tonight. The points he makes about damp living conditions and the impact that has on people’s health and whether their homes are fit for purpose also apply in my constituency and are of enormous importance.

I will start by saying that I do not think that what has happened has been good enough. I will also say something that I will repeat at the end of my speech, which is that I am going to instruct one person in my Department to act as the broker and bring together all the people who have played a part in the problem and can also be part of the solution. I hope that that reassures the hon. Gentleman. I am also going to take a moment to set out where the issues the hon. Gentleman raised about this scheme are being addressed fully in the latest iteration of the schemes we are using to help people living in fuel poverty—the ECO3 scheme.

As the hon. Gentleman will know, the scheme he is referring to in his constituency was the community energy saving programme, or CESP, which was set up by the previous Labour Government. All the shortcomings of that scheme—no guarantee and no list of installers—were a function of the scheme design at that time. That is one reason why that scheme was closed by the coalition Government in 2012, and a number of penalties were issued for companies under that scheme because, as the hon. Gentleman’s constituents well know, it had not delivered what had been required both in terms of the carbon savings and the quality of work.

Fishwick was then part of this mitigation activity that was undertaken by InterGen. I totally agree that solid wall insulation is not a suitable way to reduce energy consumption in many homes in the country, but that was part of InterGen’s mitigation scheme. As the hon. Gentleman knows only too well—it is one of the reasons why he is a long-standing champion in this place—this issue has been going on for many years. There were problems as a result of those installations. Ofgem then received complaints from 62 households, although I know the complaints pool is much larger. Those were offered remedial work which was delivered by E.ON. But as the hon. Gentleman also knows, there are real concerns about the quality of that work, because, as he said, it is not good enough to rip the cladding off and leave holes in the wall; people expect to have a warm home that can breathe and is fit to live in.

I understand that E.ON provided some additional funding to carry out the necessary structural work. I am told it carried out full structural surveys, but if the hon. Gentleman is telling me that that was not the case, that is certainly something to investigate further. Some homeowners of course declined to have extra work; there were issues gaining entry and so forth. If full surveys were not carried out, we need to know that, which is why I am keen that we have one point of contact in my Department to get to the truth of the matter.

Since that work was undertaken in the summer of 2017, more complaints have emerged—over 180. As the hon. Gentleman set out, the installer no longer exists. We are insisting on appropriate guarantees through ECO, but the Fishwick homes, which are a strong failure of the scheme put in place by that Labour Government, did not have any guarantees required from any installer, and the Solid Wall Insulation Guarantee Agency now set up to be a backstop did not exist at the time.

[Sir Mark Hendrick]

I fully take what the Minister is saying to be correct, but I would have expected the guarantees and quality of work that we saw in the Warm Front programme to be carried over into this scheme if it was indeed put together by the Labour Government prior to the coalition. I am very surprised to hear that that was not the case, but obviously I believe what the Minister says.

[Claire Perry]

The great thing about these debates is that we do not have to focus too much on the politics, but the hon. Gentleman is right to say that some very good designs and functions were put in place under the warm home scheme, and they have very much influenced the design of the energy company obligation, which is the replacement for CESP.

Perhaps I can give the hon. Gentleman some comfort in relation to other constituents who are receiving measures under this scheme by telling him that the design flaws have been addressed. We have worked with the British Standards Institution to develop new standards over and above building regulations standards for any eco-obligation, and any installer that wants to be part of the scheme must meet those technical standards. All solid and cavity wall installations must be accompanied by a guarantee that gives financial assurance even if the company providing the guarantee cannot honour it. There has to be a bond in place to provide sufficient coverage of at least 25 years, including full replacement or remediation, and to provide a verified quality assurance tick, which we would expect our constituents to be able to rely on in terms of the quality of the work and the products that are being installed.

In July 2015, we commissioned the “Each Home Counts” review. This has been a further key driver of developments in this area. The hon. Gentleman might also have heard of the TrustMark scheme that I launched last week during Green Great Britain week. It sets out a clear code of conduct for businesses. He might also receive complaints, as I do, about cold calling and the aggressive selling of these products, which are completely unacceptable. A process guarantee and rigorous new technical standards to tackle poor design and installation will be published next spring. I entirely agree with him that robust monitoring is key, and enforcement activities are the way to ensure that this happens.

I want to bring comfort to the hon. Gentleman’s constituents, but I know that it is no comfort to learn that some of the failings in the scheme design of 2009 that have caused such problems for them have given us lessons from which we have learned. I was pleased this week to bring forward the next set of measures to support ECO3. It will now be focused 100% on the alleviation of fuel poverty right across the UK, and I hope that some of his constituents will benefit from that.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Mark Hendrick]

Just before the Minister finishes, will she address the matter of finance for the remaining homes and whether the Government can be of any assistance?

[Claire Perry]

The hon. Gentleman anticipates my final remarks. I am fully sympathetic towards what he said, and I am sorry that he has been given the runaround over the years, because he has been doughty in raising such points. There is such a complex array of people involved. He referenced Preston City Council, and I am disappointed that it has been less than active historically, particularly in working with some of the agencies with which he has set up relationships. It sounds as though InterGen, E.ON and Ofgem also need to be corralled into a place where we can come up with a solution.

The scheme’s design, under which insulation is independently installed, never included a backstop to Government finance, although the hon. Gentleman may say that that ought to be a requirement. I therefore do not have any money in any of my budgets to meet the funding requirements, but given that many of the companies are still in operation and will still want to work during the scheme—the market for them is substantial—I feel strongly that they ought to do the right thing and work out ways to fix the problems and ensure that residents are happy.

I will write to the hon. Gentleman shortly with the name and contact details of a person in my Department whom I will task with bringing things together and who will report back to me with progress on a regular basis. I am happy to discuss that progress with the hon. Gentleman, either in the Tea Room or more formally. Lessons have been learned, although I appreciate that that is no comfort for residents who have been bedevilled with problems, but we can work together to try to sort things out.

Question put and agreed to.

BAE Systems Military Air & Information Sites: Job Losses

Mark Hendrick Excerpts

Tuesday 10th October 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Mark Hendrick (Preston) (Lab/Co-op)]

(Urgent Question): To ask the Minister of State, Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy if she will make a statement on the likelihood of over 1,000 jobs being lost across the north of England at BAE Systems Military Air & Information sites.

[The Minister of State, Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Claire Perry)]

I know that the Government, and indeed all of us, are disappointed to hear the news that BAE Systems is considering reductions of up to 1,400 staff in its military air and information business, 375 in its maritime services division and 150 in its applied intelligence business. This is a concerning time for those working for BAE Systems, particularly in the run-up to Christmas. That is why I can assure the hon. Gentleman that the Government stand ready to support fully those affected. Indeed, colleagues across the Ministry of Defence, my Department and others are reviewing what support we can offer the company as it goes through this process. Of course, the Department for Work and Pensions is also standing by to provide whatever advice or support is required.

I would like to set out three main points. First, I will provide an update on the process; secondly, I will explain the rationale for the changes; and thirdly, I will set out what the Government are doing to support BAE Systems and this vital sector with our business. The company will now enter a 30-day statutory consultation process, and no final decisions will be taken about the level or type of redundancies until that process is complete. The Government will continue to work with BAE Systems to ensure that compulsory redundancies are kept to a minimum, and the company assures us that the reductions will be managed on a voluntary basis as far as possible. I emphasise that, as is usual in such cases, the DWP rapid response team is engaged and standing by, ready to deploy. It is incredibly important that the skills that people in the workforce have built up are retained in the UK industry as far as possible. That is why we will be using the talent retention system that was designed by my Department, working with the sector, to ensure that vital skills are not lost to the UK.

I turn now to the rationale for the announcement. The House should be absolutely clear that BAE Systems has taken this decision as a result of normal business practice. The decision is the result of internal restructuring and a drive to transform its business so that it can continue to be one of our most efficient and effective companies, generating export orders across the world. This is not related to any UK defence spending decisions. [Interruption.] Labour Members can shout all they like, but I hope that we can avoid getting politics into this. It was very striking how during conference speech after conference speech Labour Members—not the hon. Members opposite me, for whom I have great respect—went out of their way to criticise the industry that we are talking about. I suggest that we calm down and think about the people affected and what we can do to support them.

In the last year, the Ministry of Defence has spent almost £4 billion with BAE Systems, as part of the £18 billion—half of which is spent in the manufacturing sector—that we spend across Government buying products and services from UK industry. We continually bang the drum and lead the charge for our world-leading defence industry right across the globe, maximising export opportunities for companies such as BAE Systems and the thousands of people employed in their supply chains. Indeed, only last month the Defence Secretary signed a statement of intent with Qatar to buy 24 Typhoons and six Hawks from BAE Systems. This is extremely positive news, and it demonstrates continued confidence globally in Britain’s defence and aerospace industry. We will continue to work with BAE Systems to maximise opportunities for the Typhoon and the Hawk training aircraft, and the Type 26 global combat ship, in markets such as Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, Belgium, Finland, Canada and Australia.

In conclusion, we absolutely understand that this is a worrying time for those affected. We are determined to do all we can to support BAE Systems’ future export opportunities, and I stand ready to meet workers, unions or MPs who are concerned about the potential impact of the announcement in their constituencies.

[Mr Hendrick]

Thank you, Mr Speaker, for allowing this urgent question. Today’s announcement by BAE Systems has come as a huge blow to thousands of workers and their families across Lancashire in the run-up to Christmas. The majority of Lancashire MPs have today written to the Prime Minister seeking immediate action and offering to establish a taskforce to avert the disaster. We ask the Minister for a swift, meaningful and positive response to our request.

What intermediate and longer-term actions are the Government taking to win contracts around the globe, to fly the flag and to sell the Eurofighter Typhoon and the Hawk? That is essential to sustaining the UK’s leading-edge technology and sovereign capability, as well as highly skilled jobs and the massive supply chain in the north-west of England. In order to maintain a leading edge, we must look to the future. BAE Systems has taken a big step by developing a £12 million academy in Lancashire. Will the Government play their role and announce an industrial strategy for aerospace, as they have done with shipbuilding, and will they commit themselves to assisting BAE Systems to develop a sixth-generation manned fighter aircraft?

With my right hon. Friend the Member for Chorley (Mr Hoyle) and my hon. Friend the Member for Hyndburn (Graham P. Jones), I met Prime Minister Cameron to urge him to secure vital contracts with Japan and India. We were assured that there was good news on the horizon, but there clearly was not. The Minister mentioned Qatar and that is obviously positive, but it is nothing like the size of the other contracts. Lancashire builds the finest because we have the best workforce in the world. We do not want to be let down again, so I ask the Minister to use her good offices to impress on the Prime Minister the major concerns of Lancashire MPs and indeed of MPs from across the House.

[Claire Perry]

I commend the hon. Gentleman and many of his colleagues for their absolutely resolute support both for the company and the sector. Of course I would be delighted to meet the taskforce, and I think we should extend the offer to the workers and unions affected. It is absolutely clear that we need maximum communication about the process, or to encourage the company to ensure maximum communication, particularly at this worrying time.

The hon. Gentleman is right to say that the Government have a vital part to play in banging the drum for British exports. I have mentioned the Qatar statement of intent, and clearly there are ongoing conversations with countries, such as Saudi Arabia, that have expressed an interest in this technology. There is an appetite around the world for this technology. For every unit that is sold, the whole provision—supply and maintenance—will have a measurable impact on the work available for the hon. Gentleman’s constituents and those of other Members.

The hon. Gentleman asked about the industrial strategy for this sector. We are very keen—we are already having conversations about this with the aerospace sector—on a bespoke sector deal. He will know that we have worked with the industry, on initiatives such as the technology for the future combat air system, to set out what we need to do both across this export-facing part of the business and right across the supply chain to ensure we have the right level of investment and skills.

CSC: Redundancies

Mark Hendrick Excerpts

Tuesday 28th February 2017 Westminster Hall

[Mr Mark Hendrick (Preston) (Lab/Co-op)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Chesterfield (Toby Perkins) on securing this debate, which is particularly important given the number of jobs involved throughout the country at many different sites.

The CSC office in my constituency is located opposite my parliamentary office. I am concerned that many local people known to me who work there could well be out of a job soon. There are 79 jobs in Preston—four managerial, 28 professional and 47 technical—and around 500 jobs in central Lancashire as a whole. My staff have noticed that the signage on the CSC building on Marsh Lane in Preston was removed some weeks ago. None of the staff were told why, and we had heard recently about the extra job losses. That leads me to believe that the company management have known about them for some time, and are perhaps already setting about dismantling the Preston facilities, without bothering to tell the staff still working there.

As my hon. Friend said, CSC is responsible for many critical IT systems. In my constituency, we have BAE Systems at Warton and Samlesbury, civil nuclear power rod production at Westinghouse near Springfields and, like everybody else in the country, NHS facilities. All of those important employers, facilities and public services operating on behalf of Government or indirectly on Government contracts depend on the work of CSC. The redundancies announced are bound to have an impact on their ability to provide those services.

A recent announcement mentioned 1,100 redundancies, in addition to the 499 announced in December. That is roughly 1,500 redundancies announced over the last few months. We know that CSC has made 2,355 people redundant in this financial year alone, which is more than 20% of its staff. As my hon. Friend the Member for Chesterfield said, the company will merge with Hewlett Packard. We have already lost Hewlett Packard jobs in and around Preston in recent years, and that company is carrying out similar manoeuvres, we believe to exercise its share price in a way that keeps shareholders happy, as well as companies that might want to merge with it in future. HP has just announced 785 redundancies UK-wide, and has not given its workforce a pay rise for four years.

Many of us feel that the redundancies are being made as a knee-jerk reaction following disappointing financial figures for CSC, in order to prop up its share price before a merger with HP. I am sure that when the merger takes place, many managers will exercise their share options to ensure that they make a good deal of money. Meanwhile, the workforce producing the goods and services is being sold down the river by selfish management.

I have three quick questions for the Minister. Can she look into the impact, quality and delivery time of the Government contracts, whether NHS or Ministry of Defence orders from BAE, that might be affected by CSC’s provision of services either to the Government directly, to Government agencies or through companies such as BAE? Secondly—this is important in relation not just to CSC but to other companies providing outsourced services for Government—are staff and expertise being lost that could be critical in future to the maintenance and possible modification of those systems if and when change is required? As legislation changes, such as for DWP projects, software must clearly change. In order for software to be maintained, expertise must be kept close at hand, and often in house.

Finally, a related matter—also mentioned by my colleagues—is the question of offshoring. If we are losing staff at UK companies providing services for Government contracts, and if those jobs are disappearing offshore, that has implications for the deliverability and maintenance of those projects, which in many cases are critical to the country’s defence, as with BAE; to the country’s power, as with Westinghouse; or to the health of the nation, as with the NHS.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Margot James)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Edward. I congratulate the hon. Member for Chesterfield (Toby Perkins) on securing the debate and on the detailed knowledge he has accumulated, despite the fact that the company does not seem to be in contact with him. Given the number of people it employs in his constituency, I must say that that is a surprise.

Business change is an inevitable consequence of modern competitive markets, and commercial and economic opportunities mean that companies will need to reorganise, merge, expand, and sometimes contract, in response. But what we have heard today is, indeed, a worrying picture, and I will do my best to respond to the key points about the security of the public sector contracts and the way in which the Government support people faced with redundancy. I will also try to address some of the corporate governance issues that have been raised.

Employers should want to implement changes as swiftly and efficiently as possible, to limit the impact on productivity and morale. Businesses need the flexibility to respond to the particular circumstances of their restructuring situation, but the number of rounds of redundancies that this company has engaged in causes one to ask in whose interest it is working. At the same time, employees will want to know how the changes are likely to affect them in this very fast-moving picture, and what their options are for the future. It is therefore vital that there is effective consultation with employees about the potential for collective redundancies.

I shall just remind right hon. and hon. Members what our legal obligations are. Collective redundancy legislation strikes a balance between the needs of the business and those of the employees. Collective redundancy occurs when 20 or more employees may be made redundant at one establishment within a 90-day period. In that situation, employers are under a statutory duty to consult employee representatives about the proposed redundancies. The length of a consultation period prior to the first dismissal depends on the total number of proposed redundancies. The consultation must be with the employees’ trade union representatives, or other elected employee representatives where there is no recognised trade union in place, and it must be completed before any dismissal notices can take effect. Importantly, it must be undertaken with a view to reaching agreement, even though sometimes agreement may not be possible. Therefore, any consultation should include consideration of ways of avoiding dismissals, reducing the numbers to be made redundant and mitigating the effect of the dismissals.

There are also a number of obligations on employers, including a requirement to notify the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy of the proposed collective redundancies before the start of statutory consultation. Employees who feel their rights have been denied may complain to an employment tribunal, which may make a protective award of up to 90 days’ pay to each of those affected. The ACAS helpline can provide advice to employees on their individual situation. ACAS has also produced a guide for employers on handling large-scale redundancies.

Government support is available for the many employees who have been made redundant or are likely to be faced with redundancy. Throughout the redundancy process, employers still have obligations to their employees and should be thinking about the help they can offer. First, employees with two years’ service under notice of redundancy have the right to reasonable time off to look for a new job or to arrange training. Employers in redundancy situations should contact Jobcentre Plus as soon as possible to discuss appropriate support that can be delivered locally. Jobcentre Plus has, indeed, made contact with CSC in this case to provide support, and that includes support for staff who work remotely, as may be the case with the constituent of the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne North (Catherine McKinnell). The Jobcentre Plus rapid response service is delivered in partnership with a range of national and local partners, including Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs. Where no partner support is available, dedicated funding may be used to fill gaps in provision.

All decisions about appropriate support are made locally. That is because a decision that is based on the specific redundancy situation, in particular on an individual’s own transferable skills and experience and the availability of jobs in the local area, is more likely to be the right decision and in the interests of the individual concerned.

[Mr Hendrick]

The Minister is giving an excellent exposition of the rights of employees and employers in the handling of the redundancy process, but will she try—and if she cannot, will she write to me later—to address the points I raised about ensuring that the services provided to Departments are maintained and are still deliverable? Her current contribution looks like she is talking about what employers and employees can or cannot do under legislation, rather than about how we address the problem of losing jobs that are of value to the Government.

[Margot James]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. I will come on to talk about the effect on the public sector contracts that the company has contracted to provide. I mentioned that at the beginning. I first just wanted to cover the rights of the employees in these circumstances and the support that the Government are trying to offer through Jobcentre Plus. I will, indeed, come on to the important matter that the hon. Gentleman just raised.

To conclude on the employment support that we are able to provide, I am hopeful that the rapid response service will be able to assist those workers who have been made redundant in finding alternative employment. Officials at the Department for International Trade have also contacted CSC and are in close contact with Jobcentre Plus.

I will now move on to the potential impact on public services that various right hon. and hon. Members have mentioned. CSC has undertaken numerous contracts with vital services such as, as we have heard, Royal Mail, the police, civil nuclear and the NHS, and it is indeed of concern to us all that the skills and the contractual obligations given by CSC are honoured. Given the situation, I can well understand right hon. and hon. Members’ concerns about the future. The Cabinet Office has assumed responsibility in Government for dealing with CSC on these matters, and is in regular contact with the company about the viability of the contracts it has assumed. It has been given every assurance that the business will be ongoing and unaffected.

Higher Education and Research Bill

Mark Hendrick Excerpts

3rd reading: House of Commons & Legislative Grand Committee: House of Commons & Report stage: House of Commons
Monday 21st November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab)]

I rise to speak on new clause 7 and amendments 49 to 51, which are in my name. New clause 7 and amendments 50 and 51 cover ground we discussed at length in Committee so I will refer briefly to those points then talk a little longer on amendment 49.

New clause 7 provides for automatic review of degree-awarding powers where ownership of a university changes. This is rooted in experience of the sort of system the Minister is seeking to create in the United States, where a number of institutions with a reasonably well-established reputation changed ownership and fundamentally changed the product and service delivered to students. We need to learn from the mistakes made in the States by ensuring that, should we find ourselves in this new terrain with institutions in this country with degree-awarding powers changing ownership, that should automatically trigger a review of their status. I would welcome some reassurance from the Minister on how he intends to deal with that issue, if not through this new clause. Otherwise we could find ourselves in the same situation as the States, and not only have the reputation of the sector damaged, but students let down and still carrying a fee-debt. So this is a crucial issue that we need some clarification on.

Amendment 51 covers terrain I have discussed with the Minister on a number of occasions. It simply seeks to require universities to introduce the integrated student enrolment system with voter registration, which is recommended by Universities UK, supported by the Cabinet Office and was originally and very successfully piloted by—I have to get this reference in—the University of Sheffield.

The Minister and I share a common objective of trying to improve the levels of voter registration among students. This has been a demonstrably effective way of doing that where we rolled it out not only as a pilot in Sheffield, with the support of the Cabinet Office, but in other universities—Cardiff, de Montfort and many others, which have gone on to introduce it. This seems like a good opportunity, as we are looking at the registration requirements of universities, to roll it out across the country to achieve objectives we both share.

I have discussed this with the Minister and also his colleague from the Cabinet Office, the hon. Member for Kingswood (Chris Skidmore). There was due to be a roundtable at which we were going to discuss it further tomorrow, but that has been cancelled and kicked into the long grass of sometime in the new year, I was told last week. Given the shared objectives in this area, I would like to hear from the Minister why we cannot simply use this opportunity to get this matter sorted out.

Amendment 50 reflects concern over the reliability of the metrics used to measure teaching excellence. I emphasise, as I did many times in Committee, that we all welcome the Government’s focus on teaching excellence, and we can all work effectively together on the principle of the teaching excellence framework. However, the metrics on employment outcomes, on retention and on the national student satisfaction survey have been identified by the Government themselves as a proxy for teaching excellence.

The amendment simply seeks to add to the Bill a requirement that the metrics used by the Government to determine teaching quality should have a demonstrable link to teaching excellence. This was the unanimous recommendation of the then Business, Innovation and Skills Committee, of which I was a member. We all agree that employment outcomes do not necessarily demonstrate teaching excellence. There are also enormous regional variations in employment outcomes and salary levels. The Minister will know that someone who comes from the right family and goes to the right school and university could have an awful teaching experience but still get a decent job. The converse is also true. People who do not come from the right family and who do not go to what many see as the right university could have an excellent teaching experience but not command such high salary levels. So employment outcomes are a crude and almost perverse proxy measure of teaching excellence. I would therefore welcome the Minister’s observations on why this simple amendment to introduce a demonstrable link between the metrics and teaching excellence would not strengthen the Bill and will not be accepted by the Government.

[Mr Mark Hendrick (Preston) (Lab/Co-op)]

Should the demonstrable link involve a recognition of the experience and qualifications of lecturers? What does my hon. Friend have in mind when it comes to proving that teaching quality exists?

[Paul Blomfield]

Measuring teaching quality is difficult, but if we are going to do it, and if we are going to link fee increases to it, we should do it well rather than badly. For example, the Higher Education Funding Council for England is piloting some work on value added to determine how it can be demonstrated that good teaching has contributed to students’ learning outcomes during a particular period. That is the kind of research we should be looking at before we rush into establishing a teaching excellence framework that might end up measuring everything but teaching excellence.

--- Later in debate ---

[Paul Blomfield]

I look forward to joining my hon. Friend in Westminster Hall on Wednesday, because she makes a valid point—one that a number of us made in Committee. This pre-Brexit vision should have been parked and rethought as a result of the decision on 23 June because the challenge facing our universities is fundamentally different and of enormous proportions. We need to reconsider the proposals.

[Mr Hendrick]

On that point, many mainland European universities now offer courses in English. Our leaving the European Union will significantly disadvantage British universities in attracting foreign students, because degrees in some European countries are now offered in English, not necessarily in French, German or the native language.

[Paul Blomfield]

My hon. Friend highlights a new dimension to the challenge facing our universities as a result of Brexit. My wider point about international students existed before 23 June, but we now face a situation in which the 185,000 international students, of some 500,000, from EU countries may no longer choose to come here. However—this is crucial in relation to my hon. Friend’s intervention—30% of the non-EU students who were polled before 23 June said that the UK would be a less attractive destination if we chose to leave the European Union. Our competitors in Europe, adding to the competition that we already get from Australia, Canada and the United States, are seizing the opportunity to teach English-language courses, which will become very attractive.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Roberta Blackman-Woods (City of Durham) (Lab)]

I want to speak to new clause 16, which draws on some of the points that my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield Central (Paul Blomfield) made in relation to amendment 49. In essence, the new clause seeks to remove students from the net migration figures. It would be interesting to hear from the Minister whether the Government have that on their agenda.

I also want to comment on how damaging it would be for the university sector if the number of international students that can be recruited in any one institution is related to the traffic light system in the TEF.

As we know, international students are important not only to higher education but to our economy. The contribution of international students to UK GDP is almost certainly in excess of £10 billion, and they support about 170,000 full-time equivalent jobs. Many of the students go on to do postgraduate work, and they are involved with and drive forward world-leading research and innovation in this country. They are therefore very much to be commended and supported.

While international students are in this country, they not only get to know the UK but develop an affinity with it. They develop links with staff, and they contribute massively to soft diplomacy, as we have already heard. It cannot be overemphasised that they improve Britain’s standing in the world, so it is very important that the Government do not put the recruitment of international students at risk. Once they are in this country, such students also enrich our society and contribute to its diversity. I know that from my Durham constituency, where international students very much add to the whole cultural experience of the local population.

[Mr Hendrick]

I concur with my hon. Friend on the contribution of international students and the very good experience they get. My local university, the University of Central Lancashire in Preston, has many thousands of foreign students, who very much enrich the city and bring it to life. Once they leave the UK and go back to their countries of origin, these students become some of our best ambassadors and, whether they go into industry or government, their experience in the UK always makes them very positive about the future.

[Dr Blackman-Woods]

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. The Government should take on board his point about that ambassadorial role.

We can only be bewildered at the mixed messages the Government are giving international students. One message is coming from the Department for Education, another from the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy and another from the Home Office. I do not yet know whether the Department for International Trade has a view on international students, but, if it does not, it really ought to. Its view should be one of promoting an important industry, as hon. Members have said clearly this afternoon.

Instead of supporting an increase in the number of international students, the Home Office seems to be giving the message that we need to reduce the numbers, and that is having an effect. The figures I have for the number of international students and the trend are very different from those read out by the Minister. It appears that the number of new entrants has fallen by 2.8%. Indeed, one study has put the reduction as high as 5%. The Minister must know that the British Council has stated that the UK is beginning to lose market share to our competitors. Again, the Government should be very concerned about that.

New clause 16 also seeks to find out whether the Minister or the Home Office has any notion of introducing a system in which the number of international students that any institution can recruit is linked to what happens to it in the TEF and, in particular, to where it is in the traffic light system. To give the Minister an example, if the institution is given a gold rating, there may be no cap whatsoever on the number of international students that it can recruit, but if it gets a bronze rating—oh, dear—a cap might be put on the number of students it can recruit. To use the automobile analogy that my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield Central used earlier, that is like telling Nissan, “You can sell as many cars as you like,” while telling Vauxhall, “We’re going to put one of your hands behind your back and limit the number of cars you can sell.” That is clearly nonsense. We need definite reassurances from the Minister that the Bill will not be used to link the TEF to the number of international students that can be recruited.

[Mr Hendrick]

Given that the Government are supposed to believe in markets, it is bizarre that, when Times Education Higher produces university rankings across the world, they should choose to intervene and say which students should go where when students clearly have a choice in a market-based system.

[Dr Blackman-Woods]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. International students are central to the business model of every higher education institution in the country. In addition to the possible reputational damage that could be done to our universities, we do not want a message to go out that international students are not welcome. The Minister, the Home Office and other Departments could deal with that by saying that students are temporary visitors, which is what our international competitors do in Australia, New Zealand and Canada. That means removing students from the net migration statistics, which would be a very simple thing for the Government to do, and I hope that the Minister will tell us that he is going to do that. We should be ambitious for our universities. We should enable them to grow, particularly in international markets such as Canada, Australia and other countries, and not limit their international potential.

As the Minister will know, he has a mandate to do that. A recent ComRes study—my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield Central mentioned this—showed that 75% of people who expressed a view would like to see the same number or more international students in the UK. The poll also revealed that the overwhelming majority of the British public think that international students should be able to stay and work in the UK for a period of time. A very clear case has been made and I hope that the Minister will respond positively.

The Minister has referred to amendment 58. There is huge concern in the higher education sector about enabling bodies to call themselves universities even when they do not provide the range of student services and support that most of us would expect from a university. The reason that there is no particular guidance is that we have not needed it. Most of this country’s universities provide a system of student support and access to sport and recreational opportunities. They also provide wellbeing services and volunteering opportunities, enable students to join a students’ union, and play an important civic role.

The reason that I tabled amendment 58 is that the Bill will allow a series of higher education institutions to call themselves universities even though we as yet have no idea whether they will have to offer a range of basic services to students. Will they be able to join a students’ union and sports clubs? Will they play an important role in the local community, as is the case with existing universities? Will they have an important role in the local economy? We have heard nothing yet from the Minister except that there will be some guidance, so I am minded to press amendment 58 to a vote. I would like to hear from the Minister what will be in the guidance about how we describe universities, what the Minister’s understanding of a university is and when the guidance will be made available. In particular, will it be available before the Bill is considered in the other place?

--- Later in debate ---

[Wes Streeting]

I certainly do not think that we will be able to find a typical student to sit on the board of the OFS because, as others have said from their perspectives, no such thing exists. That leads me on to where I wanted to direct the Minister, in as far as I can. We should value the skills and expertise that representatives of students develop through their roles in student unions, precisely because there is no such thing as a typical student or a typical student experience. We should value and champion the role that the officers of student unions play in developing their skills and experience as representatives to make sure that student unions champion the broad diversity of students at their institutions; whether students are full time or part time, or are doing part of a course on a credit-based approach, whether they are living at home and commuting to university or have moved away from home, there are a wide range of student experiences. The challenge for anyone who seeks to be a representative is to make sure that they genuinely draw on that broad range of experiences, just as we have to as constituency MPs.

I hope that, when the Minister appoints one of these representatives, he appoints one who is a students union sabbatical officer, for example, because we are lucky in this country to have a means by which students can develop a good base of skills and expertise. Many of the country’s leading chief executives of voluntary sector organisations have been students union sabbatical officers, as have many Members of Parliament and people in all sorts of professions, because the experience and skill sets that it gives them are genuinely valuable beyond the scope of representing students during their time at university. I hope that that is the sort of person the Minister has in mind and that we will not drag people back from beyond to dust themselves off from retirement.

[Mr Hendrick]

Although I agree with everything that my hon. Friend is saying, I think that the hon. Member for Bury St Edmunds (Jo Churchill) was perhaps referring to distance learning students, mature students and people who follow a less usual course to obtain qualifications. Certainly, when I have met the presidents of my students union over the years, they have been sympathetic to the needs of such students. Will my hon. Friend perhaps address the hon. Lady’s point?

[Wes Streeting]

I absolutely agree with that point, which brings me back to the skills and expertise that student union sabbatical officers develop in that role. The Open University students association or Birkbeck students union are institutions almost entirely dedicated to part-time students, people from non-traditional routes and people who often work alongside their studies who have returned to learning later on in life. It is important that that broad range of experience and perspective is represented on the board of the Office for Students. I hope that the Minister will appoint someone to that position who can represent the broad interests of students.

I want now to deal with staff. I should probably declare that I am a member of the trade union Unison, which represents a number of staff in higher education, and I should draw Members’ attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests on that point, too. Amendment 48 picks up the theme that I have been discussing—student representation on the board of the Office for Students—and makes the case for having staff on that board.

Staff are absolutely crucial to the success of our higher education sector, whether they are academic staff directly engaged in teaching and learning or the wide range of support staff, whose contribution to the student experience is often unheralded. Thinking back to my student experience, the first member of staff I spoke to at my university was not an academic; it was Gina Vivian-Neal in the admissions office. When I was at university, I spoke to staff such as Bill Simmonett, who was involved in catering and conferencing, because of my role as the students union entertainments officer. When I had a particularly small room in my second year and a larger one became available, Sue Jeffries made a substantial difference to my learning environment. Margaret Hay, who, I believe, recently retired from her role in the tutorial office, was absolutely central to the experience and welfare and care of students.

Bearing in mind what other hon. Members have said about the role that international staff play in our institutions, it is important that people on the board of the Office for Students have experience of representing the interests of staff. Many of our trade union colleagues, particularly in the University and College Union, have made a powerful case about the impact that the casualisation of contracts, for example, is having on our ability to recruit and retain good staff and their ability to deliver a good student experience.

Other trade unions, such as Unison and Unite, represent those staff who, while perhaps not directly engaged in teaching, often provide essential support functions that can make the difference between an excellent or a poor student experience. I hope that their voice and interests are represented on the board of the Office for Students. Given where we have taken our country in the debate about our ability to attract and retain excellent staff from around the world, we could leave ourselves in a vulnerable position in a sector such as ours that is so world-leading in its performance and reach, and we need to champion and protect the interests of staff.

I hope that the Minister will take those points on board. I thank him for the movement that he has shown since the Bill Committee. I had almost given up hope by the end of the Committee that we would see much progress, but, to give him credit, he has moved. I hope that he will listen to the points that we make today, and perhaps they can be addressed in the other place.