Oral Answers to Questions

Marsha De Cordova Excerpts

Thursday 3rd July 2025 Commons Chamber

[Chris Vince (Harlow) (Lab/Co-op)]

2. What steps the Church of England is taking to support people on low incomes in rural communities.

[The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Marsha De Cordova)]

Our most recent figures show that the Church of England was involved in more than 31,000 community projects across the country, including in my hon. Friend’s constituency of Harlow. In addition, funding for churches in the lowest income communities is set to increase from £91 million in the past three years to £133.5 million.

[Chris Vince]

In the local authority of Harlow, 30% of children are living in poverty, according to research by Loughborough University and the End Child Poverty coalition. Poverty also exists in rural areas of my constituency, such as Sheering and Nazeing. Many families turn to their local place of worship for support. Luckily, Harlow has several places of worship of different faiths and denominations offering help. Can my hon. Friend say a little more about what the Church is doing in the area to support families struggling with the cost of living?

[Marsha De Cordova]

My hon. Friend is a good representative for the people of Harlow. In his constituency, St Mary Magdalene church runs a vibrant Sunday school and mothers’ union, with lots of events and activities for all the community. St Stephen’s church runs a parent and toddler group while also supporting local care homes. St Paul’s and St Mary’s churches partner with the local food bank and run a Bounty club with the Michael Roberts Charitable Trust, offering good, healthy food at a low cost.

[David Mundell (Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale) (Con)]

With the closure of many churches in rural communities in England and in Scotland, too, are the commissioners concerned that people living in rural areas, particularly those on low incomes, might not be able to access worship within easy reach of their own communities?

[Marsha De Cordova]

The right hon. Gentleman asks an important question. The Church values all its rural communities, and that is why we have so many different projects to ensure that places of worship not only exist, but operate as a community hub to ensure that people in those local areas have places to go, whether that is for worship, a local food bank, or a mother and baby group.

[Louise Jones (North East Derbyshire) (Lab)]

3. What assessment the Church Commissioners have made of the potential impact of the £25,000 cap in the listed places of worship grant scheme on levels of church repairs.

[Jen Craft (Thurrock) (Lab)]

10. What assessment the Church Commissioners have made of the potential impact of the £25,000 cap in the listed places of worship grant scheme on levels of church repairs.

[Marsha De Cordova]

The Church estimates that around 260 church buildings will be impacted by the changes to the listed places of worship grant scheme. Some 206 of those have multi-year projects already under way that will need to find further funding. I recently met representatives from churches that have been impacted with the Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Barnsley South (Stephanie Peacock), so that they could share their concerns with her. I hope, following the spending review settlement, that the Department for Culture, Media and Sport will clarify the support that churches will get and that will be available to them going forward.

[Louise Jones]

In North East Derbyshire, we are proud to have many historic, beautiful churches that reflect the many broad traditions within Christian faith in this country. Can my hon. Friend please provide clarity on the future of the listed places of worship scheme so that we can continue to treasure these places for many generations to come?

[Marsha De Cordova]

As I have highlighted, we value our churches and our listed places of worship, and it is important that the Government hear these calls and provide some clarity and certainty about the future of the scheme. The Church Commissioners have funded many projects, providing around £9 million of grants for repairs to churches, and church building support officers are also in place to advise on management, how repairs can be carried out and the essential development of these places of worship. I hear my hon. Friend, and I invite her to lobby the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport to give us some certainty about the scheme.

[Jayne Kirkham]

I have been visiting places of worship in my constituency, including St Probus and St Grace church, with the tallest church tower in Cornwall, and St Gerrans church, with its distinctive tower and spire. Both need extensive and expensive works to keep them watertight, so all that good work with food banks, coffee mornings and warm hubs that goes on there can continue to happen. They are both concerned about the new annual cap, as they have costed their schemes, and the potential ending of the listed places of worship grant scheme next year. What alternative support will be available to them and others now that the scheme is reduced and potentially ending? Of course, I will be lobbying DCMS, too.

[Marsha De Cordova]

I commend the work of the churches in my hon. Friend’s constituency. She highlighted St Probus and St Grace church, which was founded in 930 AD. I understand that it is a truly wonderful building and establishment, but it needs a new roof, and the fundraising is under way to try to ensure that it gets the funding. I highlighted earlier the Church Commissioners’ building emissions fund. This issue has been raised every time I stand here and respond to questions on behalf of the Church. It is vital that the listed places of worship grant scheme continues and that the Government provide clarity on the future of the scheme, so that all the wonderful listed places of worship in all our constituencies have certainty going forward.

[Jen Craft]

The changes to the grant scheme, and the uncertainty over its future, present significant challenges for historic churches in need of maintenance, as my hon. Friend has just set out so well. These include the grade I listed St Nicholas church in Ockendon, in my constituency of Thurrock, which, as the warden told me this week, carries a significant burden in repair work due to its age. Can my hon. Friend assist me to understand what support is available for parishes facing these challenges to ensure that they continue to thrive at the heart of communities, as they have done through hundreds of years of history? I will be lobbying DCMS as well.

[Marsha De Cordova]

As I highlighted, there are other funds, and I will write to my hon. Friend to set out some additional support that might be available. I understand that works at St Nicholas church will cost around £200,000, which is a great deal of money. I am very pleased to hear that she, too, will be lobbying the Department for Culture, Media and Sport for certainty about the listed places of worship grant scheme. I really think I have done my job in calling for that today.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the hon. Lady for her answers. Like other Members, I will ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport whether there will be more money for churches, given that the Minister for Creative Industries, Arts and Tourism says that funding is now available. Churches are more than just buildings for people in rural communities; they are hubs for worship and social engagement. Let us be honest about the £25,000 cap: building materials cost maybe 30% to 50% more than they did a year ago, which means that the grant does not go very far. The heritage lottery fund gives some moneys, but what can be done to work with other organisations to ensure that moneys can come from other groups that may be anxious and willing? I have a church in my constituency that got a six-figure sum, which gives the House an idea of what moneys can be gained through co-operation and partnership.

[Marsha De Cordova]

The hon. Gentleman rightly highlights that there are other ways to acquire funding, such as through the heritage lottery and so forth. I will certainly write to him if there are specific places that he is concerned about. Although the grant scheme is for the Church of England, I am certain that there is other support for churches, and I can certainly put him in touch with the relevant people, if that is helpful.

[Kevin Bonavia (Stevenage) (Lab)]

4. What steps the Church of England is taking to support community cohesion in its parishes.

[Sarah Smith (Hyndburn) (Lab)]

9. What steps the Church of England is taking to support community cohesion in its parishes.

[Marsha De Cordova]

Through the parish system, the Church of England has a presence in every community. Long-term relationships are vital for building trust and understanding in all our communities, and the Church has worked closely with faith organisations, local authorities, the police and so forth—all in aid of building better relations.

[Kevin Bonavia]

I would like to take this opportunity to commend the contribution of the churches in my constituency, from All Saints in Datchworth, which is currently celebrating 850 years of service, to St Mary’s in Aston, where the Rev. Canon Jenny Gray has recently retired. However, another church, St Andrew & St George in the centre of Stevenage, is facing the ongoing problem of theft of copper from its roof—an expensive loss to the church. What can be done to safeguard our churches from such antisocial and criminal behaviour?

[Marsha De Cordova]

I thank my hon. Friend for asking two really important questions. I congratulate the Rev. Canon Jenny Gray on her retirement. Her exemplary service to the community was recognised by the diocese in 2023, when she was made an honorary canon of the cathedral.

On metal theft, my hon. Friend is absolutely right that it is criminal and antisocial, and it causes real harm. The Church has been doing a lot of work on this since 2013, and I am happy to write to him to set out that work in more detail.

[Sarah Smith]

I thank my hon. Friend for the work she is doing representing the Church Commissioners. The community of Hyndburn is vibrant and rich in its diversity, and I was proud to see how we responded to the awful riots last summer. What conversations has she had with the Church Commissioners on how the Church can continue to strengthen its work on integration and work with the Government as they develop a community cohesion strategy following the immigration White Paper?

[Marsha De Cordova]

I pay tribute to the social cohesion work happening in my hon. Friend’s constituency. I would just highlight that bishops and church officials have been in discussion with the Minister for Faith in the other place on community cohesion issues. The Church did write to the Prime Minister following the publication of the White Paper to call for a more holistic integration strategy, and this has also been raised in meetings. I commend all our church and faith organisations that came together during the riots last summer, and demonstrated how we can work collaboratively across all our communities.

[James MacCleary (Lewes) (LD)]

A really positive example of community cohesion in action is the Rewild the Church project, with the Lewes Climate Hub and churches in Lewes joining forces to tackle biodiversity loss and bring people together through their parishes. They are working towards the inspiring goal of rewilding 30% of Church-owned land by 2030. Will the Second Church Estates Commissioner join me in congratulating them on this important work, and support this ambition for the Church of England to lead by example in restoring nature and supporting local communities to come together in doing so?

[Marsha De Cordova]

I congratulate the hon. Member and those in his constituency on the work taking place on that really important issue.

[Douglas McAllister (West Dunbartonshire) (Lab)]

5. What support the Church of England is providing to Christians in the Occupied Palestinian Territories.

[Marsha De Cordova]

We continue to see the Christian community attacked by Israeli soldiers and settlers, as happened as recently as last week. Anglican aid agencies are providing financial assistance to Church institutions, including the Princess Basma Centre in East Jerusalem, St Luke’s hospital in Nablus and the Arab Evangelical Episcopal school in Ramallah. This work is ongoing, and there is a global appeal for support for these aid agencies.

[Douglas McAllister]

The UK Government have begun to issue visas for critically injured and sick Gazan children in need of specialist expert medical treatment, but only a handful of children have been granted visas and brought to the UK for urgent treatment. What support can the Church provide to not just Christian children, but all children in the Occupied Palestinian Territories in desperate need of medical evacuation?

[Marsha De Cordova]

I thank my hon. Friend for his important question. There is no safe space for children in Gaza, where we know that over 56,000 people have lost their lives, including more than 17,000 children. The Church has rightly condemned the attacks on hospitals and civilians, but we can certainly do more and the Church must do more. The Church must continue to be a voice for the voiceless, and Gazan children are the voiceless. I encourage the Government to enable medical evacuations, heed calls for the creation of a Gaza family visa scheme and take concrete steps to ensure Israel allows vital medical aid into Gaza.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Father of the House.

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

The Christian town of Taybeh is the same town as Ephraim in John’s gospel where Jesus went before his passion. This town is entering a new passion: there was a violent attack by extremist Israeli settlers on the town on 26 June. There is a continuing pattern of crops being destroyed and outposts being set up, and it is happening all over the west bank. This is outrageous racial cleansing, deliberately designed to prevent a two-state solution and to drive out the people who have tended their crops there for 2,000 years. Will the Church of England call out this outrage every day of the week in an attempt to put some sort of pressure on the Israeli Government?

[Marsha De Cordova]

I thank the Father of the House for his question. He is absolutely right: the attacks that took place in Taybeh last week were outrageous and should not have been allowed to happen. If we are all going to be the hands and feet of Jesus, we have to speak out when we see such atrocities happen. We must be a voice for the voiceless. I hear him when he says that the Church must speak out every day against what is happening in Gaza, and indeed across the whole occupied territories.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

6. What statutory powers the Church plans to use to facilitate Project Spire.

[Marsha De Cordova]

I thank the right hon. Member for his question and draw his attention to a written response I gave on 22 April. It is the Church’s intention, subject to the approval of the trustees, for the Church Commissioners to make an application to the Charity Commission to authorise an ex gratia payment under section 106 of the Charities Act 2011 on the basis of moral obligation.

[Sir Desmond Swayne]

A number of Members this morning have lobbied for expenditure to repair their churches, and the hon. Lady has told them to lobby the Government—the Department for Culture, Media and Sport—for that money. At the same time, the Church has already spent £5 million on this project, with the aspiration of taking it to £1 billion, when the Charity Commission has yet to deliver its verdict on whether that is within the charitable objectives allowable. How has that been allowed to happen?

[Marsha De Cordova]

These are two separate issues. What is going on in relation to funding for Project Spire is totally separate to any other funding—the listed places of worship grant scheme is a separate scheme. The buildings for mission fund that supports our churches is totally separate.

[James Asser (West Ham and Beckton) (Lab)]

7. What information the Church holds on the operational situation of the Anglican al-Ahli hospital in Gaza.

[Marsha De Cordova]

The Israeli attacks on patients and medics at hospitals are abhorrent, as I have said on many occasions. The Church is in close contact with the diocese of Jerusalem, which oversees the al-Ahli hospital in Gaza. The challenges of operating while under attack by Israel, and with the hospital and church buildings having been struck directly on eight separate occasions, mean that the hospital is in chaos. It will soon run out of fuel and medical supplies.

[James Asser]

I raised the al-Ahli hospital at the end of last year, when it suffered quite a lot of damage. The situation has deteriorated rapidly since then. I understand that the hospital, as my hon. Friend outlined, has suffered further damage, including the loss of its emergency room. Given it is one of the few functioning hospitals left in Gaza, does my hon. Friend agree that it is vital that it stays open? Given it is one of the oldest hospitals, operating for almost 140 years, its loss would be an absolutely damning indictment of the disregard for the medical facilities, and for the health and lives of the Palestinian people.

[Marsha De Cordova]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The diocese of Jerusalem has informed us that the hospital continues to provide critical medical services—but only just. Food, fuel and medical supplies are critically low due to Israel preventing aid from getting into Gaza. The Church Commissioners repeat the diocese’s urgent calls for a renewed ceasefire, and the establishment of safe and sustained humanitarian corridors. I urge the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office to pressure Israel to allow in fuel and vital medical supplies.

[Emma Lewell (South Shields) (Lab)]

11. What steps the Church of England is taking to help to tackle poverty.

[Marsha De Cordova]

Churches and all our faith communities make a powerful difference in the lives of all our constituents every single day, and Church of England parishes provide more than 31,000 social action projects in church schools and educate millions of children each day. Parish initiatives include food banks, credit unions, warm spaces, school clubs and other forms of family support.

[Emma Lewell]

For too long, charities, faith groups and churches such as my own, St Bede’s, have been supporting people struggling to get by. Does my hon. Friend agree that our child poverty taskforce needs to seriously consider scrapping the awful two-child benefit cap, because relying on charity to lift children out of poverty is simply unsustainable?

[Marsha De Cordova]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. Everyone has a responsibility to tackle child poverty, and we should all commend and thank the Church for the role it has played in this space. I know that the Bishop of Derby hosted Baroness Sherlock, the child poverty unit and colleagues for a roundtable, where many issues were discussed.

[Neil O’Brien (Harborough, Oadby and Wigston) (Con)]

Churches across the country are doing amazing work tackling poverty, but they could be doing more. Many of my constituents will be surprised that the Church Commissioners have already spent £5 million on Project Spire when it is not within their charitable objectives, and that they plan to spend £100 million when the Charity Commission has not signed that off. Why are the Church Commissioners doing something that is not within their charitable objectives?

[Marsha De Cordova]

No decision has been taken on that. When the board of governors and the Church of Commissioners make that decision, they will follow the right processes to do so.