Housing and Planning Bill (Eighth sitting)

Peter Dowd Excerpts

Thursday 26th November 2015 Public Bill Committees

[Grahame M. Morris]

Again, my hon. Friend makes a sensible point, and I hope the Minister will reflect on it. It reinforces my point that the new mechanism does not provide substantial benefits to either party—the tenant or the landlord—and does not improve on the existing arrangements. If the Government insist on pressing ahead with the clause, there is a danger that it could be used by rogue landlords to threaten and intimidate vulnerable tenants, such as those that my hon. Friend the Member for Erith and Thamesmead referred to and those in ill health, who my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow West referred to. At the very least, the Government should offer the additional safeguards that are proposed in our amendment.

[Peter Dowd (Bootle) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Alan. The hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton made a perfectly reasonable point about getting back a tenancy, but at the end of the day he is a perfectly reasonable person. The amendment is not about dealing with perfectly reasonable people; it is partly about dealing with rogue landlords. We welcome the proposals on rogue landlords that the Government and the Minister put into the Bill, but it is a shame that they are counterbalanced by the rogue landlords’ ability to use the clause to kick people out of their own homes. Those people will not be able to resort to legal process, which is a fundamental capacity in this country.

[Kevin Hollinrake]

Does the hon. Gentleman concede that, as well as rogue landlords, there are also tenants who do not pay their rent? That is what the clause is trying to resolve.

[Peter Dowd]

Again, that is a perfectly reasonable point, but, as my hon. Friend the Member for Erith and Thamesmead said, perfectly reasonable landlords, or rogue landlords, for that matter, can already use legal measures—section 21 evictions, for example, take about three months. These proposals will take eight to 10 weeks, anyway. The difference between eight to 10 weeks and the three months it takes to go through a section 21 eviction is fairly minimal. People in that situation already have that capacity and the protection of the law. There is potentially going to be a post hoc recourse to law. How many of us would like to be in the position whereby if someone does something to us or takes something off us, we have to go to court to get it back? Who would want to go through that process and face those challenges?

Given the retrenchment in the legal aid budget, people will not have access to the courts. The Government have not taken action about that. I am not going to comment on legal aid—that is for another debate—but we are where we are. We should be trying to protect tenants through due process in the way that we protect everybody else. In fact, the fundamental responsibility of this place is to protect people’s rights in law. We want to protect the rights of tenants in law that already exists. Let us not introduce some cack-handed method that allows landlords to throw people out of their homes.

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[Mr Thomas]

I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in this debate, Sir Alan. I hope the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton is tempted to catch your eye to say a little more in this debate. He makes a broadly reasonable point in saying that there needs to be a balance in law between the rights of the tenant and the rights of the landlord. However, I struggle to understand why he thinks there is not a sufficient balance in law at the moment. As my hon. Friend the Member for Bootle alluded to, there are already legal provisions to deal with tenants who get into substantial rent arrears and for cases of abandonment, and there is the legal rule of implied surrender. It is difficult, reflecting on the evidence sittings and all the submissions to the Bill Committee, to see what evidence there is to justify all the additional powers for landlords, which, as many hon. Members have suggested, could cause problems for vulnerable citizens.

I accept that the Government have gone some way to address those concerns with amendments 116 to 126. Nevertheless, I share the concern of my hon. Friends the Members for Erith and Thamesmead, for Easington and for Bootle that those amendments do not go quite far enough to deal with concerns about vulnerability.

A case in my constituency involved a woman who was a teaching assistant. She got into rent arrears because of problems with housing benefit and, worried about her housing situation, she chose, wrongly, not to answer her mail. As a result, her problems got worse. She was intimidated by the financial position that she was in. I worry that the provisions could make it easier to evict a person in that case than to help her sort out her finances.

[Peter Dowd]

The Minister proposes to amend clause 51 so that a third notice must be given. Does my hon. Friend agree that a third notice is fine, but that it would take the process virtually to the three-month period that would make it possible to get a section 21 eviction? Effectively, it would take the same time, but without recourse to law. That seems a bit inappropriate.

[Mr Thomas]

My hon. Friend makes a good point. If the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton will forgive me, that is another reason why it would be good to hear his experience about why the additional provisions, albeit with the Government amendments, are necessary. We will no doubt hear from the Minister in due course.

Part of my concern is that tenants evicted under the new provisions will struggle to challenge their evictions. I asked on Tuesday about legal aid for someone wanting to make sure a rent repayment order would be available, and the Minister was going to reflect on that. Will he also reflect on whether legal aid will be available to a tenant who wants to challenge an eviction under the new provisions?

I am concerned that the clauses and Government amendments could lead to further illegal evictions, and part of the reason for that is that there are very few successful prosecutions at the moment for unlawful eviction by landlords. In 2011 there were only 13. The brutal truth is that illegal evictions are rarely investigated, and few landlords are prosecuted.

There are a number of reasons for that. There have been substantial cuts to many of the tenancy relations teams in housing associations, which have traditionally carried out that function—if, indeed, they still exist. Police forces often think that illegal eviction is a civil matter, so it is quite rare that they investigate. For someone who has been evicted illegally and is now homeless, finding accommodation is a much more urgent priority than launching a prosecution.

My hon. Friend the Member for Erith and Thamesmead is right to ask for an additional check and balance before a landlord can take action under the provisions. The opportunity to go and ask a local housing authority whether it shares the view that a property has been abandoned is a check strongly worthy of consideration.

[Mr Thomas]

I am tempted to think that it ought to be relatively simple for Ministers to write to police forces urging them to check things carefully. If the Minister were to agree to that, I would certainly welcome it. I encourage the hon. Member for South Norfolk to consider the whole piece and all the reasons why it is unlikely that landlords who pursue unlawful evictions will be taken to task. The police issue is one thing, but I alluded to a series of other issues that prompt concern about the Bill’s clauses, albeit there are potential amendments from the Minister.

[Peter Dowd]

Does my hon. Friend agree that we are in the territory of a person possibly being declared de facto homeless vicariously through three letters coming through their door? The person could in effect become homeless not because they want to or have caused it, but because someone has sent three letters. They would then face the challenge of finding alternative accommodation.

[Mr Thomas]

My hon. Friend makes a good point, and it will be useful to hear from the Minister on that.

Returning to a point I made in an intervention, the vast majority of landlords are not large buy-to-let companies. They are often individuals or families with just one or two properties who want to do the right thing by their tenants. The opportunity to talk to a body before taking a view that abandonment has happened gives them an additional safeguard and provides an additional opportunity for them to satisfy themselves that they are not making somebody homeless inadvertently. The amendment is pro-good-landlord just as much as it is anti-rogue-landlord, as my hon. Friend suggested.

I am sorry that the hon. Member for Peterborough is not in his place, because he very much—

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Jones]

That brings me nicely to the points that were made about the section 21 notice, which landlords can use to retake possession of a property. It is important to point out that to recover possession under section 21, the landlord would need to obtain a possession order from the court, as has been pointed out, which would obviously involve additional time and the additional cost of going to court.

We need to bear it in mind that the Bill is about bringing forward proportionate measures to protect tenants. The golden thread running through all the measures on the private rented sector is that we are trying to improve the tenant’s lot and tenant protection. At the same time, however, there is a balance between tenant protection and the needs of the landlord—the person who invests in property to house people. The hon. Gentleman and the Labour party need to consider that the measures are a proportionate way to redress that balance, particularly where tenants are clearly not paying their rent and not living at the property.

[Peter Dowd]

I completely accept the spirit in which the Minister suggested that the burden on local authorities will be too great for them to become involved, but does he not agree that it would be even greater if the person was evicted? It is a case of a stitch in time saves nine in relation to the proposal.

[Mr Jones]

What the hon. Gentleman and several other Labour Members do not consider is that the measure is designed for a situation in which a property has been abandoned. It has not been put forward to allow landlords to try to fast-track the eviction of tenants who are living in a property or tenants who are paying their rent. It is important for the Committee to remember that.

Let me make another point about the section 21 process. To go back to my point about freeing up property that has been abandoned so that people can be housed, the section 21 process involves the landlord giving the tenant two months’ notice. After that, however, the landlord would need to go to court to obtain a possession order. On average, that process takes four months, which seems an excessive amount of time to get a property that has clearly been abandoned back into use.